Why are European universities so terrible?

[Anonymous No.8556238]

In almost every ranking, universities in continental Europe lag far behind those in the United States and United Kingdom. Pic related.

Why is this? Lack of funding? Bad curriculum? No research?

European high schools are better than American ones, so why does this flip when it comes to college?

[Anonymous No.8556240]

>>8556238
>European high schools are better than American ones, so why does this flip when it comes to college?

you get what you pay for.

[Anonymous No.8556245]

>>8556238
Shitty endowments. The universities at the top stay at the top because they have the top endowments which they use to recruit the top researchers, who are then able to get the top dollas for their top dog universities. It's a cycle.

Also, Americans, and to a lesser extent, toothless Harry's in Britain, are smurter than your typical euro trash who shit desu.

[Anonymous No.8556247]

A large part of it is just money.

Harvard has a 32 billion dollar endowment. Most European universities have under a billion, most universities in general have under a billion but all the ones you listed are much higher. Well not caltech but since it is smaller and technical focused that money goes a lot farther. And even there caltechs endowment is over $2B and hardly any in europe even crack a billion.

But there's also this: universities in Europe are intended, primarily, to educate the students of that country. So there is a difference between the top ones, and the lower quality regional ones in each country, but that difference is not that big, and even the top universities have to set their requirements to be populated mostly by students from their country. Meanwhile in the US, top private universities don't give a shit about educating the poor and solely want to advance their prestige as much as possible, their admission requirements are ridiculous since they have 300 million people + top students from third word/asia to choose from. So there is a lot more difference, if you compare a more average US university, a highly ranked public school like UCLA or Michigan, to European universities it is a lot more comparable.

Also, how these things are ranked is mostly based on research/graduate school, on both continents undergrads are mostly there to pay the bills and keep the lights on. whether it's them paying or state funding.

[Anonymous No.8556253]

>>8556238
What are these rankings even based on? Like what is even measured here.
I know some rankings use number of papers published, which is mostly tied to much much money a university has.

These rankings have very little to do with how good the education is. It's just for academic dick waving rights.

[Anonymous No.8556264]

As Italian the problems uni here has are
a)no money
b)professor are more often than not glorified powepoint presentation readers with a god complex
c)too many people who don't care, and unlike top American unis ours can't afford to leave them behind

I am working on my second degree now so I have seen different places and I can't blame everything on bad luck.

[Anonymous No.8556270]

>>8556238
It's money.
Most universities are free (or at max ask for 500 euros a year) in Europe, so they have a shitty gov budget, it's enough to produce good students but if one of them wants to make resarch he moves to the US or Switzerland.

The american education system basically lives over imported european and asian students.

It's pretty much the same thing when it comes to entrepeneurship, since we are closet socialist people don't have the freedom to create their business without being hammered by the regulations and fisc, so they move to the US where in bonus there are legions of VC firms and business angels.

[Anonymous No.8556301]

>>8556238
Universities in Europe are often publicly funded, and thus at the mercy of retarded politicians.
For example, the university of Copenhagen recently had cuts across ALL programmes, because there were too many unemployed humanistic graduates or something.

[Anonymous No.8556307]

>>8556238
europe is cucked. cucks don't lead. they sit in the corner watching.

[Anonymous No.8556345]

>>8556238
those universities get billions of more dollars a year to do research

[Anonymous No.8556350]

>>8556307
you speak as if you have some first hand experience

[Anonymous No.8556355]

>>8556238
Because the system is rigged to put American universities at the top.

[Anonymous No.8556358]

>>8556350
matter of fact i do

[Anonymous No.8556362]

>>8556238

European universities are excellent. That's why the most powerful, most well-funded institutions in the world are interested in getting their students. The united states has very well-ranked universities for historical reasons, and because they have the best researchers from around the globe--educated elsewhere--performing experiments. America has very competitive, well-funded universities doing high impact science, but that doesn't necessarily mean the education is any good.

[Anonymous No.8556374]

>>8556247
>>8556270

In top American schools you will see Russian mathematicians, Hungarian physicists, German chemists, South American agrochemicals researchers, and Japanese engineers doing good work using good equipment and writing good papers.

Only a small (rich) minority of Americans have access to the quality of primary, secondary, and undergraduate education that's offered elsewhere in the world. And children of the rich don't want to be professional scientists. It violates the Kondratiev cycle. Second and third generation bourgeoisie will always prefer to work in the circus or something.

[Anonymous No.8556383]

>>8556374
You're retarded. Only 4% of the faculty is international and only 40% of post-grads are international. 10% of undergrads.

Butthurt eurotard.

[Anonymous No.8556384]

>>8556374
This, here in India we have an insanely difficult university entrance exam for pretty much all disciplines (business, engineering, medical). By far the most popular for males is engineering.

IIRC the engineering entrance exam is more difficult than China's but less difficult than Japan's from what I've read online, if you want some comparison.

The guys who get top in that entrance exam in terms of ranking (around 110000 people give it per year) get into a government university that has shit for money, then go to a top US university for their masters/PhD, provided they're relatively at the top of their class.

The "America is a country built by hardworking immigrants" meme is pretty true desu

[Anonymous No.8556392]

>>8556383
Also our public school system is more than adequate, our rankings when homogenized to asians and whites are higher than most of Europe. Private school is also not out of reach for anyone in the middle class. I went to a private school with working class parents.

Euro-peons are inferior.

[Anonymous No.8556394]

>>8556384
And yet you shit in the streets. Nice.

[Anonymous No.8556398]

>>8556383

I'm actually a Canadian, but I've been to European universities.

My main assertion is that the US has a lot of very good PhD students from different countries, and that most of those countries provide better quality undergraduate and secondary education to a larger portion of their population than The US does. Canada has the same problem imo, but to a lesser extent because the way we do research is different (less intensely competitive).

[Anonymous No.8556399]

>>8556394

Shit for brains is worse than shit for streets imo.

[Anonymous No.8556400]

>>8556238
Another thing to consider is that a lot of research in the EU is done outside of universities. An example is CERN, which isnt allied to any university at all, so all that research does not count towards a university ranking. Same with for example the RIVM in the Netherlands, does a lot of research into biology, virology etc, but is not allied to a uni.

[Anonymous No.8556403]

>>8556392

>>8556392

have you ever been to a European school? This is what it's like. You meet undergraduates who would be in a whole other league if they were in a North American school, and many are competing to go be busy PhD students at American universities. Only the best will get in, whereas an American student with half the aptitudes could probably get in. So who do you think is doing the heavy lifting in the American labs?

There are some highly gifted Americans for sure, but scientific fluency is less common.

>>8556400

This is also true. In the EU, you go to 'research institutes'. Places like Scripps are the norm in systems outside of the US.

[Anonymous No.8556405]

>>8556238
lack of specialization. the head of stanford said this about German unis in an article i'm too lazy to dig out now.

his core argument was that if a faculty in Stanford wasn't doing well in terms of scientific achievement (which in my experience tends to be measured in papers published) and had no plan on how to get to the top of its field, it would rather be cut than be sustained on an insufficient level. here in Germany, you can study pretty much any subject at any university, most of the time even universities in the same city have competing faculties (TU Munich/LMU Munich, TU Berlin/FU Berlin/Uni Berlin, other cities have similar situations especially considering als Universities of Applied Sciences which are on the rise in terms of scientific publications as well - you can study Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Medicine, Computer Science at all of these). There's a trend towards working together within cities and, project based, within Germany, but the cluttered structure still makes acquiring funds harder for everybody.

acquiring funds in general seems to be harder in terms of the process involved, at least Martin Odersky (inventor of the Scala programming language; used to teach at Karlsruhe Institute of Technology, now teaches at ETH Lausanne) said so in an interview i'm equally too lazy to dig up right now.

essentially, it's a multi faceted problem (unsurprisingly). my subjective feeling also is that the approach to teaching is different here. many professors seem to see teaching as a burden, while the lecture videos from US universities make it look like these guys are actually enjoying it. the general feeling here seems to be "they're at uni to learn by themselves, i'm only providing the material" while in the US it feels more like a "they're here because they're interested in me teaching them something", if you know what i mean.

[Anonymous No.8556407]

>>8556383
>40% of post-grads

[Anonymous No.8556411]

>>8556238
They are publicly funded. Mostly or completely depending on the country.

Of course you can build better universities if every student has to pay you the equivalent of a nice family house plus a car to get a degree from you.

Also why would administrators put effort into making their degrees as good as possible if there is no market competition for funds, they get their government bucks regardless of how good they are.

[Anonymous No.8556416]

>>8556400
correct answer

[Anonymous No.8556417]

>>8556399
If you had brains, you wouldn't shit in the streets for millennia.

[Anonymous No.8556419]

>>8556417

Fair argument, I suppose.

[Anonymous No.8556423]

>>8556247
>UCLA is an average US university
triggered
i chose it over Berkeley. not only is UCLA great, but unlike Berkeley everyone who goes there is there because they want to be, not because they didn't get into their top pick private school.

[Anonymous No.8556458]

>>8556417
India was pretty rich though, until people attacked it (the Persians and the British) and looted it. See the Kohinoor diamond for an example.

[Anonymous No.8556462]

>>8556238
bvy what means is it measured ? you just say it is "better"....
I doubt you ever went to a university.

[Anonymous No.8556463]

>>8556458
being rich in the past or how you lot got colonized by the Brits doesn't give you an excuse to still shit on the streets in the 21st century

Jesus Christ...

[Anonymous No.8556465]

>>8556400
Bullshit. Im at the university and study physics. we have tutors that work in cern our professors work with cern..... the universities are doing the experiments in accelarators such as DESY
know your stuff before you comment.

[Anonymous No.8556468]

>>8556463
I'm sure you're baiting but fuck it i have nothing else to do

India doesn't have designated shitting streets. Take your /int/ memes somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.8556469]

>>8556238
Gee I wonder why one of the most powerful nations on the planet is lobbying american or pro-american league tables to put american universities always at the top

[Anonymous No.8556471]

>>8556468
>India doesn't have designated shitting streets.

[Anonymous No.8556481]

>>8556465
cern is a separate entity from any university. the fact that university professors contribute doesn't change that

[Anonymous No.8556487]

>>8556481
well, it does change it because them make their own experiments there. and i can as a bachelor student make experiments at DESY for the Bachelor thesis for example......
I even was there and they have shown it all to us.
This is not enough ???

[Anonymous No.8556493]

>>8556481
your universitys have their own particle accelarators in the backyard ? kek

[Anonymous No.8556499]

>>8556487
no because it is about research papers linked to the uni, and not to CERN. Yet in practice they are linked to CERN.

[Anonymous No.8556501]

>>8556499
What do you even mean by that ?
Cauld you compare and state the differences and tell me what your point is ?

[Anonymous No.8556504]

>>8556468
>India doesn't have designated shitting streets.

But they do shit in the streets. Storytime: one of my great-grand-uncles was a robber barron, after working in the steel industry all his life he decided he could do it better so gathered all his savings and fucked off to India, built a factory and became relatively wealthy. Anyway one thing he said was that he built his workers some living quarters complete with indoor plumbing (a novelty) but even then they preferred to "shit up against walls", his words not mine.

[Anonymous No.8556509]

>>8556423
Berkeley is the best public university in the nation.

[Anonymous No.8556511]

>>8556407
not enough people in America want to go to grad school for it to be higher. As the top American universities (Ivies, Stanford, MIT) are indisputably the best in the world, a lot of people from other countries want to go there.

Undergrad has 10% and not less because universities see foreigners as walking bags of gold bars that can be lawfully acquired.

[Anonymous No.8556513]

>>8556504
I am not him but I don't believe there are actual designated shitting streets as designated by the government but rather just streets designated by the public mind as where its ok to shit.

[Anonymous No.8556573]

>>8556509
This is true but the undergraduate population isn't as smart as say, HYPSMC.

Especially compared to MIT for STEM.

[Anonymous No.8556592]

>>8556238
>Asking a question whose answer is so obvious that I thought this is a troll thread at first...
It's because in Europe, universities tend to focus on education of the students...
(Which is what all universities around the world should do, instead of ---> ''MUH MONEY! MUH STATUS! MUH PRESTIGE!!!!'')

This anon explained it in short, pretty well:
>>8556247

[Anonymous No.8556605]

>>8556301
well fuck... I was thinking of applying to UOC next year...
hmmm, a question... should I go to UOCopenhagen, UOTokyo or pay 10 billion for one of the unis in Murica?

[Anonymous No.8556623]

Boy it feels fucking great to have free education here in Finland.

I'm 3 years in an engineering degree and I haven't even had the need to take a loan yet because we get so good student benefits.

[Anonymous No.8556640]

>>8556605
If thats your only 3 choices go to Tokyo... Dont even bother with US its a waste of money, a lot of money. Plus you will learn less than you would in copenhagen or tokyo

[Anonymous No.8556643]

>>8556640
Btw if you go to Tokyo be prepared to learn the language asap. You will be completely gimped otherwise.

[Anonymous No.8556644]

>>8556592
Sadly...

[Anonymous No.8556648]

>>8556643
He wont be fucked. I think Japan has a prep year thing that lasts 11 months before you actually start uni, where you learn the language and culture thingy. I was also looking at Asian universities but i ended up going in University of Dubrovnik...

[Anonymous No.8556653]

>>8556643
Yeah I'm prepared for that. (If I end up going with UOT)

[Anonymous No.8556654]

>>8556648
Oh, well then it's chill. Here in Scandinavia they kinda just throw people in expecting them to already know the language.

[Anonymous No.8556655]

>>8556654
Well that sucks.

[Anonymous No.8556659]

>>8556655
Yeah, however it should be noted that over half of the courses we take are in English.

t. M.Sc.Eng in Physics in Sweden.

[Anonymous No.8556660]

>>8556238
>All the salty Euros ITT.

The idea that schools in the top 10 focus on research to the detriment of teaching is a fucking joke, life isn't an RPG, you can be good at both. Indeed at better universities you often get access to people that are world leaders in their field, their insight would be unprecedented and just can't be matched by someone from the university of literally where.

[Anonymous No.8556705]

>>8556605
fuck murica wtf
where are you from? if you're from the EU there are discounts on university tuition

[Anonymous No.8556733]

>>8556471
i just love that there's an infomap for this.

[Anonymous No.8556738]

>>8556471
FUCK KEK

[Anonymous No.8556739]

>tfw go to top 10 university and pay like 600 bucks per semester
feels good man

[Anonymous No.8556741]

>>8556739
ETH is nice, but the german requirement for undergrad is irritating

[Anonymous No.8556757]

>>8556739
Since I live in Germany, I don't know if paying this much money for education is supposed to be a good or a bad thing

[Anonymous No.8556761]

I'll just leave this here

[Anonymous No.8556766]

>>8556238
As others noted, e.g. in Germany asignificant proportion of cutting edge research is done in research institutes such as Max-Planck-Gesellschaft and CERN.

Moreover, my impression from my friends studying in continental europe is that there isn't an as competitive research culture there, as opposed to the department I'm at in one of the unis in your list.

[Anonymous No.8556767]

Only super rich kids go to Ivy Leagues and top 10s in the US.

Most of these kids aren't su[er bright but they have top SAT scores, AP credit, every checkmark elite schools filter for. These aren't a filter for high IQ but for social status.

People not in on the secret think Ivies are full of little john von neumann's and alan turings.

They aren't,

[Anonymous No.8556773]

>>8556757
true, I kinda feel bad for all the germans studying here and having to pay our prices

>>8556741
yeah don't really get that either, considering you'll have to know english anyway especially in stem. Some profs even switch to english when they have trouble explaining something in german and some of the course material is in english too.

[Anonymous No.8556777]

>>8556757
If you're still a student, try to do a semester in one of the better US institution. They have more money and it shows.

[Anonymous No.8556781]

>>8556767
what is AP credit?

[Anonymous No.8556798]

>>8556781
College Credit taken in HS.

It wouldn't be uncommon for Ivy League students (in say math) enter freshman year having completed: Calculus I-III, Linear Algebra, Real Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Diff Equations, Topology.

Does this mean they are smart? No, it means their mommy and daddy made sure they could access a college education in high school or sent them to an elite high school + college combo to supplement their education.

This means they enter freshman year taking senior level / grad level courses and the advantage of 4-5 year head start ensures they are able to enter top 5-10 graduate level schools upon graduation.

The socio-economic advntg is huge.

[Anonymous No.8556803]

>>8556767
Places like Caltech, MIT, and Berkeley are though... at least for the sciences.

[Anonymous No.8556805]

>>8556767

This is denial.
All of the IMO medalists and geniuses go to top American institutions.
I couldn't care less about the rich douchbags.

[Anonymous No.8556807]

>>8556767

Lol, no.

I know a guy who got into Cornell.

Black. Maybe middle class. No where near rich. 28 on his ACT. Good, but not great grades. Mediocre extracurriculars.

$40,000 a year in scholarships.

[Anonymous No.8556812]

>>8556803
>>8556807
>>8556805
Exceptions don't invalidate it. See >>8556798

[Anonymous No.8556818]

>>8556812

Dude, you're not smart enough for MIT.
We get it. Most of /sci/ aren't smart enough for MIT.
It's unhealthy to deny it.

[Anonymous No.8556820]

>>8556818
it has nothing to do with being smart enough. when your parents cant get you in: Calculus I-III, Linear Algebra, Real Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Diff Equations, Topology because they lack money to send you to a good secondary school it doesnt matter if your IQ score is 145. If you only taken Calculus I you cannot compete with the kid that took all of the above courses applying for MIT

[Anonymous No.8556821]

>>8556820
that kid will get into MIT and you won't. even if he has a lesser IQ he has more college prep courses enterting into MIT than you do
=

only difference is parents income and lack of resources

[Anonymous No.8556826]

>>8556820
Dude, denial is not healthy.
You're not smart enough to do well in IMO.
Just accept it.

[Anonymous No.8556827]

>>8556812
>>8556798

Well, wait a second, if we're not going about this on a case-by-case basis, how are we doing debating this?

If you have some studies, or information about the entrants in top 10 universities, then post it. I'm not unwilling to accept that you're right if you are. It's just that, at the moment, I don't think you are because I personally know kids that went to these top universities, and none of them have been very wealthy.

[Anonymous No.8556828]

>>8556767
Ivyfag here.

Generally what the Ivies look for is a better than average mind with an interesting story. They are less likely to take a whiz who does nothing but math (unless they're REALLY exceptional).

The super rich do go to Ivies, but the schools avoid drawing from that pool these days (diversity etc). Interesting backgrounds take precedence, unless daddy donates a new building.

I don't mind the system, it means less autism in my major (CS).

[Anonymous No.8556831]

>>8556826
No you need to fuck off.

You cannot compare an applicant that attended a tier 3 high school, and top class was calculus I, SAT score 2300 to someone that attended a tier 1 high school, SAT score 2300 and took all undergrad math courses before applying to college.

Second kid will get in, first wont.

[Anonymous No.8556833]

>>8556828
Ivies don't accept people that don't pass certain checkmarks.

Those checkmarks 99% of the time exclude anyone not from at least an upper middle class background.

[Anonymous No.8556839]

>>8556831

Dude, seriously, not getting in to MIT is not the end of everything.
Accept you lack a bit in the brain department.
Don't blame rich parents.
It's unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.8556843]

>>8556833
>>8556821
>>8556767

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works
http://web.mit.edu/facts/faqs.html

[Anonymous No.8556862]

>>8556843
They dont accept many poorfags. Most poorfags dont make it past their checkmarks for social status (SAT Scores, ECs, feeder HS).

>>8556839
You're a retard. Not replying to you any more. Btw I went to a better school than you did. Top 10 here.

[Anonymous No.8556874]

>>8556862

It says right there that 20% of Harvard's students pay 0 tuition. That's 1 in 5. 60% of their students that receive need-based aid pay $12,000 a year in tuition. That's over half of their students.

53% of MIT students are attending with some amount of need-based support, and 1 in 3 of their students are attending tuition free.

Over half of the students at arguably THE top two universities in the nation are on need-based financial aid. Unless you come up with some opposing statistics, you're gonna need to accept that you're argument doesn't hold any water.

[Anonymous No.8556876]

>>8556761
mate this doesnt mean shit. how can you even try to construct a "nobelist per capita" and have that mean anything when theres no more than a handful per school to begin with. ENS hasnt had nearly as many in recent years. the whole concept is absurd

[Anonymous No.8556882]

>>8556862
Nope. You're wrong. They paid my entire financial aid, and also give me $2000 a semester for whatever I want. I was in the <$6k a year bracket and that was all food stamps. All top schools in the US pay every nickle if you get in. Fuck off please.

[Anonymous No.8556890]

Fact: Massachusetts is the most power place on earth

[Anonymous No.8556892]

>>8556798
>It wouldn't be uncommon for Ivy League students (in say math) enter freshman year having completed: Calculus I-III, Linear Algebra, Real Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Diff Equations, Topology.

Actually thats extremely uncommon even for kids who competed in the IMO.

[Anonymous No.8556893]

>>8556882
I'm not fucking wrong. I went to a top 10 and maybe an even more elite school than you since my classmates were all very very wealthy people. Some sons and daughters of politicians. Fuck you

[Anonymous No.8556894]

>>8556892
Then I went to a more elite school than you. Sorry.

[Anonymous No.8556899]

>>8556893
>I'm not fucking wrong.
Yes, in fact you are completely wrong, in a sense that is very rare, in which pretty much anyone can see that you are wrong. You keep relying on this top 10 bullshit as if it means something. Heres the facts: If you are a good student, you can get into IVY leagues, you dont need to be a football player astronaut whose the son of a nigerian oil lord, or any stupid shit thats in your political narrative. Not only to Ivies pay your tuition if you are poor, no school gets your financial information until after you are accepted.

[Anonymous No.8556905]

>>8556894
The person who told me that was Bjorn Pooen kek. I suggest you get a reality check.

[Anonymous No.8556913]

>>8556240

college isn't the same as university, it's a tier below

[Anonymous No.8556914]

>>8556899
You miss the entire thesis. If you are poor 99% chance you will not receive the education to score 2200+ on the SAT nor given the chances to succeed academically to have a shot at ivies. Just because we attended a top 10 doesn't disprove those facts. I will not reply to another comment in this thread, so do not bother replying to me.

[Anonymous No.8556917]

>>8556913
college and university is an interchangeable term in America. It means the exact same thing.

[Anonymous No.8556922]

>>8556913

In the US, "university" and "college" are interchangeable terms. They mean the exact same thing.

[Anonymous No.8556923]

>>8556914
>blurts statistically incorrect delusions about Top 10 schools
>backpedals into saying something correct (poor kids often lack the resources to get high scores)
>do not bother replying
ebin

[Anonymous No.8556928]

>>8556914
>my argument is in shambles, but I still want to get the last word, so do not bother replying to me.
You changed what you were saying from an actual barrier of not being rich enough to be accepted to not being rich enough to have the education to be accepted, which is also nonsense because the median income bracket is $80k. Please leave.

[Anonymous No.8556931]

>>8556917
>>8556922

Yet some institutions are called a college while others are called a university.
Coincidentally, those called universities have the higher academical standards.

[Anonymous No.8556934]

>>8556928
>>8556923
>>8556899
>>8556882
>>8556874
>>8556843
>>8556839
>>8556828
>>8556827
>>8556798
>>8556767
>>8556820

Autism. Please all of you involved in this convo leave sci

[Anonymous No.8556938]

>>8556931
MIT is called a technical institute like the huge swathe of it schools butchered by the federal government for being shit and CUNY exists so no, no, and finally no. Its semantics.

[Anonymous No.8556941]

>>8556938

Yeah but nobody would call it a college.
Ultimately college stands for low level.

[Anonymous No.8556945]

>>8556934

Why the angst?
You're not in MIT.
You're not smart enough.
We know it. You know it.

What's with the denial? It's unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.8556947]

>>8556914
>2200+
2200 won't get you in to an elite college unless you are black or hispanic lel
or are otherwise connected

[Anonymous No.8556953]

>>8556945
Not involved in your convo but you and the other anons involved are shitting the board up. Leave.

[Anonymous No.8556954]

>>8556941
Harved Mudd college? There arent that many places that call themselves X college to begin with here, but theres no real correlation between that and quality. In America, all upper level education institutes that award undergraduate degrees are called "colleges." You sound like a bong attempting to assert something about american schooling nomenclature when you know nothing about it at all. Maybe this will illustrate:
"What college do you go to?"
"Oh I go to Harvard."
"Oh, but if thats a college it must be less quality than a university right?"
"What?"

[Anonymous No.8556957]

>>8556931
>coincidentally, those called universities have the higher academical standards
thats because barely anybody calls themselves a college, most schools use University to describe the entire place and then college to describe the individual parts. Its purely just a naming scheme, Boston College (the best uni that uses college) calls what other unis would call their college a school.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/data
for reference here is probably the most reputable ranking for US unis undergrad, #79 and below are all the really good colleges (University of Delaware is #79 for reference)

[Anonymous No.8556958]

>>8556941

Yes, they would.

If an American graduated from MIT, and someone said that person graduated from college, a very small minority of people in the US would feel any need to correct them.

[Anonymous No.8556963]

>>8556947
Factually wrong. Why do non-ivies think they can comment on this? All it takes is going to one class to know average academic white boys that arent rich over their breeches exist in these schools. Its like they do everything they can to deny the possibility that them not getting in was actually their fault.

[Anonymous No.8556973]

>>8556963
>breeches

ok billy bob

[Anonymous No.8556976]

>>8556947
>2200 won't get you in to an elite college
First of all thats not even the scale anymore, its out of 1600
second of all the average old SAT score at Harvard was a 2260. basically you are full of shit.

[Anonymous No.8556981]

>>8556976
>the average
kids who get in without race or legacy bonuses are mostly above that average, I bet.

[Anonymous No.8556983]

>>8556941
no it doesn't
virtually everyone I have met including the presidents of universities use college and university interchangeably and refer to the general concept of the level of education past high school as college.

[Anonymous No.8556987]

>>8556981
Yes a little over half the kids who get in would be above a 2200. You claimed that it just won't get you in when it would be a solid chance to get in assuming you had stuff beyond that such as a very high GPA and good extra curriculars.

[Anonymous No.8556993]

>>8556963
Why didn't I get in to any elite colleges for undergrad despite meeting/exceeding all these criteria then? I had a 2260, ~3.95, and like 10 APs in high school, iirc. I went to a shit (ranked ~50) college for undergrad because they paid me to go there.

[Anonymous No.8557002]

>>8556993
because you got unlucky, its literally a crapshoot. With scores that high you had a chance of that lower college you went to rejecting you as you would fuck with their statistics by being accepted then not going.

[Anonymous No.8557003]

>>8556893

That dude just proved that he goes to MIT.

There's only like 4 schools in the nation that could even compare to it.

Tell us where you go where everyone apparently is literally Scrooge McDuck weathly.

[Anonymous No.8557005]

>>8557003

Harvard
Princeton
Yale

[Anonymous No.8557009]

>>8556993
probably because you're white, don't have any inside connections to the school and your parents aren't wealthy. didn't attend a feeder HS in their recruiting area

[Anonymous No.8557011]

>>8557002
I didn't even get in to Cornell lel

meanwhile in the year above me some girl with like a 1900 got in to harvard due to being a legacy and another kid with similar stats to me who was a workaholic got in to Harvard and failed out in the first semester and had a panic attack. How the hell do you fail out of Harvard? They are renowned for grade inflation.

[Anonymous No.8557013]

>>8557009
That what I said in >>8556947 but >>8556963
feels otherwise

[Anonymous No.8557019]

>>8556993
because your asian. I am right arent I. Theres lots of shit being thrown around in this thread. There are people who clearly didnt get into top tier schools who blame the system, and people who did get in think everythings easy going. Theres bias on both sides. When you apply for these schools, you do need to play a game. For those who have won IMO's or are eagle scouts, those are just good RNG rolls. But you can get in with anything if you work your shit right. The worst possible RNG roll is if you are middle class, have average grades, white, and theres nothing interesting about you. Then your fucked. It would even be easier to get in if you were asian, because underperforming asians are more rare. If you are very poor, and you are a great student, you actually are in very good shape. Because not only do you already perform over average, you have an excuse that suggests your top potential is even more, and you have something to write your essays about. This shit about being from a powerful family and getting to an amazing school is all bullshit. Theres no way to prove this stuff these days because elite children have amazing educations, and there are plenty of elite kids who DONT go to harvard. The fantasy of the rich being elite permantnly is perpetuated by the WASP culture that was prevalent many many years ago, its not realistic in the modern years.

[Anonymous No.8557023]

>>8557005
>(You)

>>8557011
I find it hard to believe you didn't get into Cornell but then again my best friend had a 35 ACT and 3.9 unweighted GPA alongside a bunch of extracurriculars and didn't get into Dartmouth, so to say again its a crapshoot.

Also he probably failed out due to having a mental breakdown from what I would assume would be the massive amounts of stress from being a
>workaholic
>panic attack

[Anonymous No.8557025]

>>8557005
People arent scrooge mcduck wealthy on average in any of those places just look of the financial aid statistics...

[Anonymous No.8557027]

>Dad went to UPenn, then Harvard MBA
>Mom went to Harvard undergrad
>Dad met mom while at Harvard
>Dad created his business, multimillion
>Mom works as a Lawyer
>Attend Phillips Exeter Academy
>Make gud grades
>Get SAT tutor
>Ace SAT
>Apply to Harvard, Yale, Princeton
>Get into Harvard, Princeton, waitlist Yale
>Browse: http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/tips-for-getting-off-the-yale-waitlist/
>Don't get into Yale anyways
>Whatever, go to Harvard
>Due to grade inflation get straight As
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/12/20/why-grade-inflation-even-at-harvard-is-a-big-problem/
>Do history cause who cares
>Fuck hot girls
>Get interview at Goldman Sacks for internship, dad knows few people
>Do that shit
>Get internship again at Goldman next summer, do that shit
>Graduate high GPA cause history is easy
>Get job at Goldman
>Browse sci cuz I wish I did STEM but history was easier.

[Anonymous No.8557030]

>>8557023
>>8557025

I pointed that shit out earlier in >>8556843

He doesn't listen to facts. It's honestly pointless trying to reason with him.

I'm out. Later.

[Anonymous No.8557037]

>>8556238
American universities have the best of the best faculty, typically, and huge endowments and focus on research.

[Anonymous No.8557038]

>>8557019
No I'm white. Obviously Asians have it worse than I do. I was middle class, with high grades/SATs, but nothing especially interesting about me. I figured that not having enough "interesting" things going on prevented me from doing better in college admissions, but it doesn't matter any more anyway. At least PhD program admissions are less fuzzy. But I will probably be fucked anyway because of not attending a sufficiently prestigious undergrad or having famous recommenders. Oh well.

>>8557023
I managed to get waitlisted but I never heard back.

[Anonymous No.8557040]

>>8557030
cool. dont come back fagboy

we all know you couldn't get into a top school LMAO

[Anonymous No.8557047]

>>8557038
It probably was not having the interesting things as legacy isn't very big at Cornell (unless they did something for them)

[Anonymous No.8557052]

>>8557047
>>8557038
what I mean is that because legacy isn't very big at Cornell, you can generally get in without a lot of bullshit about spots reserved for legacy or library donations

[Anonymous No.8557053]

>>8557030
k

[Anonymous No.8557054]

>>8557047
>when you have to do interesting things to get in to top colleges, but you don't enjoy anything
das it mane

[Anonymous No.8557055]

Can we agree upon that Germany is by far the most difficult country to get a degree in?

[Anonymous No.8557063]

>>8557030
you can't argue with facts so you leave. /sci/ for you

[Anonymous No.8557074]

>>8557027
>be african child
>starve to death out of the womb because my mothers teats dont function
>angsty state uni engineer makes this shitpost

[Anonymous No.8557089]

>>8557074
>WHY WOULD YOU THROW OUT YOUR OLD PHONE A STARVING AFRICAN COULD HAVE EATEN THAT: The post

[Anonymous No.8557091]

>>8557055
Was she in university or do psychologists grade your performance after a session? Holy shit.

[Anonymous No.8557092]

because they are "free"

feel the bern

[Anonymous No.8557096]

>>8557089
You're retarded. I'm saying its nonsense to make a long fictional story bemoaning the luck of rich kids when anyone typing shit here is also on benefits of luck of the draw.

[Anonymous No.8557101]

>>8557096
>>8557089
yeah you retard African children who died are just as unlucky as rich kids who go to Harvard and get employed at Goldman

[Anonymous No.8557102]

>>8557096
Your post is ridiculous regardless, african children and Harvard have nothing to do with each other in regards to luck.

[Anonymous No.8557103]

>>8557101

[Anonymous No.8557109]

>>8557102
I dont understand how you can be so stupid as to not understand a simple analogy. You make a huge post crying about how unfair it is that fictional harvard undergrads have their life on autopilot, but ignore that the world is inherently unfair, and you yourself are benefiting from that but you ignore that because boo hoo Im not going to harvard.

[Anonymous No.8557115]

>>8557109
I don't know how you can be so stupid as to not understand that african children can't eat Iphones and go to Harvard. You make a huge post shitposting about how unfair it is that black people die because of dysfunctional boobs and people shitpost about harvard.
I'm out this thread is gay

[Anonymous No.8557118]

>>8557115
You've said you were leaving the thread three times now

[Anonymous No.8557120]

>>8557115
good riddance faggot

>>8557118
it was 3 fags who all left and then a new one came

[Anonymous No.8557123]

>>8556509
Michigan and Georgia Tech would have beef with that statement.

[Anonymous No.8557135]

>>8557109

People rationalize their failures.
He's not unique in that regard.

[Anonymous No.8557138]

>>8556807
A black 28 is like a white 33 or Asian 34

[Anonymous No.8557150]

>>8557135
it was obviously a shitpost, the posts weren't coherent at all

all of these:
>>8557115
>>8557102
>>8557101
>>8557089
were probably a samefag

[Anonymous No.8557165]

>>8557150
Of course they are shitposts.
4chan contains only shitposts.

Nevertheless, behind those shitposts, there's one underlying truth.
He is not in MIT.
He is not smart.
He is in denial.

[Anonymous No.8557276]

>>8557005
>Yale
>comparable to MIT for science/math/engineering
"no"

[Anonymous No.8557337]

>>8556833
bitter, boring brainlet who couldn't make the cut detected

lmao I grew up in inner-city Newark, NJ and I made it to an Ivy, git gud faggot

[Anonymous No.8557436]

>>8556509
i was speaking from the perspective of an undergraduate, but UCLA's math department does compete a bit with Berkeley's (thanks Terry!)

[Anonymous No.8557564]

>>8556238
Because in Europe, career path is decided by parental lineage and social circles. Talent can be imported from India (cheap) or Germany (expensive). Education isn't important, and neither is innovation nor, apparently, economic activity

[Anonymous No.8557648]

>>8556238
They probably don't grade on a curve.

[Anonymous No.8557906]

Thoughts about places like McGill or uni of Sydney?

[Anonymous No.8557908]

>>8556238
>ranking universities
How do you measure the impact and worth of science year to year?

[Anonymous No.8558088]

>tfw I finally checked back on my thread after 160+ replies
>tfw Euros gave me literally zero (0) satisfactory answers
>tfw the best answer was "muh foreign nationals make American universities great" when universities only accept foreigners because they pay a shit ton of cash and cheat

I'm disappointed.

[Anonymous No.8558101]

>>8557906
McGill is leagues ahead of Uni of Sydney.
McGill is the best university in Canada which puts it approximately top 20-30 world wide.

[Anonymous No.8558117]

>>8558101
:(
Fuck. Shouldn't have missed the deadline

[Anonymous No.8558157]

>>8558088
Euro universities are focused on education not research. Professors have very little research commitment. These rankings are based on papers and citations, they have less so they score less on the rankings.

There are many institutions in Europe (INRIA, MPI, Pasteur Institute, CERN) that are very well known for their research, and if ranked would place comparable to some of these universities.

[Anonymous No.8558160]

>>8558101
>McGill
>best Uni in Candy
Toronto by a long shot, no contest
UBC/McGill are about the same, but still quite lower than Toronto

[OP No.8558168]

>>8556761
What's up with France? They don't seem at all to have a particularly good education system or intellectual culture.

[Anonymous No.8558193]

>>8558157
>Euro universities are focused on education not research
Third world tier shit

[Anonymous No.8558196]

>>8556238
Western universities are mediocre. None of you have seen true rigor unless you live in India.

[Anonymous No.8558219]

>>8556941
No, a college is part of a university. I.e. Harvard college (undergrad degrees) is part of Harvard university (includes graduate schools and Harvard college).

In most cases the term is meaningless in the United States and gets used interchangeably with university, but if you want to be absolutely correct, a college is part of a university. I go to the college of engineering in big state bullshit university.

[Anonymous No.8558221]

>>8556238
>No research
Partly, many countries have institues like Frauenhofer or INRIA which are not bound to universites who publish good research papers. They often cooperate with universities, but do not always appear in these rankings because they want to be evaluated seperately by whoever pays them. US has some R&D labs which publish a lot, but almost all heavily tied to universities and publish through them.

>Lack of funding?
More of this. EU universities get way less money, and the big IT companies are in the US are more likely too make cooperations with US reasearchers than with EU ones. Also all those projects funded by DoD.

But I want to say that rankings are more of a big picture thing, there are some subfields with no research at all in the US (especially some fields in maths, thanks France for that), in fields that require less money the gap is not that big. Everything that requires big money (ML, Robotics, Physics, etc.) is hard to do in the EU.

>>8558157
>Euro universities are focused on education not research.
>Professors have very little research commitment.
That's bullshit, nobody cares about education when they want to hire a new prof. They are evaluated based on their research, and many phd students and post-docs have a fixed teaching/research distribution in their contracts, which is mostly 25/75. Professors offer 1, at most 2 courses in a semester which they actually hold.

[Anonymous No.8558268]

>>8558168
>or intellectual culture
wat? That's contrary to all cliches.

[Anonymous No.8558410]

>>8556253
Legit one of the factors is no. of nobel prize winners at the institute, which is going to favour somewhere that spends 10x more on one nobelist rather than 10 normal P.I.s

[Anonymous No.8558441]

>>8556605
I can personally recommend University of Copenhagen, and if you come here to study physics or chemistry we will probably meet

[Anonymous No.8558510]

>>8558221
>That's bullshit, nobody cares about education when they want to hire a new prof. They are evaluated based on their research, and many phd students and post-docs have a fixed teaching/research distribution in their contracts, which is mostly 25/75. Professors offer 1, at most 2 courses in a semester which they actually hold.
I don't know where you live, but that's definitely not the case where I live.

There will be a new position for a professorship soon and there were a lot who applied. Some were chosen and from those everyone had to give a speech and a test lecture about some topic and that will be part of the evaluation.

And most professors have at least 3 courses they hold.

[Anonymous No.8558533]

>>8558510
well where do you live, because clearly its different from everywhere else.

[Anonymous No.8558574]

>>8558510
>And most professors have at least 3 courses they hold.
In person and each semester? No way.

>Some were chosen and from those everyone had to give a speech and a test lecture about some topic and that will be part of the evaluation.
Yes, but you won't take the good teacher about the good researcher who brings in money and fame. The test lecture is to weed out spergs who will ruin your reputation: if you can't give a lecture at all, you can't be a good presenter and can't represent the university. At least here in Germany a test lecture is also not mandatory

[Anonymous No.8558593]

>>8556238

From an American point of view...

How big is the UK when compared to America? I would say that, per capita, the UK as a favorably disproportionate number of universities in the top 10.

[Anonymous No.8558595]

>>8558593

To add just a bit more, I hope American and the UK continue our dominance of leading secondary educational facilities.

[Anonymous No.8558606]

>>8558593
considering OP's pic is completely unsourced and I cannot find where the fuck it came from, I will use UsNew's rankings as they are the most reputable.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/rankings

it would be unfair to go to Top 25 so lets use top 10, where there is:
8 American Unis
2 British Unis (Oxford and Cambridge)
using http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/rankings as a basis for what the country's population is, per capita the US has 2.46*10^-8 (0.0000000246) top 10 colleges per capita and the UK has 3.06*10^-8 (0.0000000306) top 10 colleges per capita
so basically no in the top 10 we proportionally have about the same. If you were to go anywhere beyond the top 10 it would be heavily in America's favor, in the top 25 example there is only 2 additional UK colleges, 1 Canadian college, and then the rest are US Ivies and top publics