/sci/ - Science & Math

>>8268749
>implying employers aren't growingly being turned off by CS majors and won't even look at your application in the future

can you get a job as a software engineer with a computer science degree?

So let me get this straight:

Computer Science is a meme because it is pursued by dummies and indians?

It is purely the people enroled and not the content?

as a former CSfag i disagree with this. physicists make the biggest strides in electronics and in turn computer science. i value the physical side more than the propositional logic aspect of coding because the design of a CPU is going to be the core constraint of my ideas being more than just a theoretical framework.

now before someone roasts me for not referring to CE/EE i say physicist because i'm talking about an inventive approach to digital theory and of logic blocks not just making efficient deposition models or IC densities.

>>8268749

Programming is what you do if you arent good enough to get a job in your major, you don't aspire to be one.

>>8269193
You can get a job as a SE with any degree.

>>8269207
No, it's both. The content is watered down a ton in undergrad and the majors who believe the adulterated content is H∀RⅮC0R∃ are cancer.

>>8268749
There has been an influx of CS grads in the web development world. They are smart, but have such abysmal architectural aesthetics, all they ever do is jam all the hip new technologies into a giant Rube Goldberg machine that is so over engineered, no one can use it. Its like they covet complexity for the sake of making themselves proud they can do it. They think the easy way is the lazy way. No, its called engineering, fool. I wish they would put the E back in CS.

>>8268749
>we study the best major, we have the most opportunities after college
If you don't like it this major will burn you out faster than almost anything else.
>we are the dominant force in engineering.
You have nothing to do with engineering.

>>8269213
Better theory can help with that though. For example to first build a computer you need to know what a computer is; Turing machines, etc. Most of digital (circuit) theory is more closely related to math; Boolean algebra, etc. than to physics. Physics gives it a physical representation (hazards in actual circuits, response time, heat, etc.) while engineering makes sure it works (how to deal with all that, among other thinks), it's efficient and in a lot of cases decides how to actually solve a problem or do something.

I mean I agree a lot with what you say, but it seems a bit narrow-minded to me.
It might be just me, because I never liked categorizing people based on their degrees considering that everyone I have every met who had some talent/achieved something could fit into 2 (sometimes even 3) degrees at the same time.

Math gives solutions to lot of physics problems, so advancing it helps with physics, the other way around is not unheard of either.
I mean I'm pretty sure that for example computation was primarily a math achievement because the work of Turing, Neumann and related people gave it a proper framework, the physical representation in the modern sense came after that.
Although there were guys before Turing who made general purpose computers without associating such a deep mathematical theory with it or at least they didn't pursue it that deep; math guys, mechanical engineers, etc.

My point is without theory you don't know what you can really do with the hardware. Without hardware you can't really build what the theory implies (circuits existed before computers). So I don't think so that it can be separated so sharply.

>>8268749
Yurofag here. Tell me about CS education in America. Can you post a curriculum?

>>8269803

>>CS
>1st year
Bullshit java/OO coding class
Bullshit data structures class
Piss easy calculus classes
Piss easy matrix algebra class
[If you're luck] physics I&II for non-science majors

>2nd year
Watered down "computer architecture" class
Pompous software engineering class
Pathetic discrete "math" class
Watered down "probability" class
Crash course on formal languages and automata

>3rd year
Pathetic algorithms course
Watered down computability and complexity theory course
Laughable networks course
Laughable database course
Crash course on various programing languages

>4th year
Laughable computer security course
[If you're lucky] an Operating Systems class
[If you're lucky] a Compilers class
Horseshit AI with trivial machine learning
5-10 student team Capstone with one dude doing all the work
and all the bullshit easy electives you want

And a real major like CE looks like this

>>CE/ECE/EE
>1st year
C++/C Coding class
C++/C Data Structures and Algorithm
Easy vector calculus
Piss easy matrix algebra class
Ordinary Differential Equations
Physics I&II
Chem I&II

>2nd year
PDEs, Complex Variables, or Advanced Engineering Mathematics [which is half of each]
Probability and Random Processes
Numerical Analysis
Signal and System Analysis
Circuits
Physics III
Digital Logic
An actual Computer Architecture class

>3rd year
Electronics I&II
Communication Systems
Digital Signal Processing
[if CE or ECE] Discrete Math with Coding and Information Theory
[if EE or ECE] Control Theory
[if EE] Electromagnetics
[if CE] Operation Systems
[if CE] Digital System Design
[if CE] Embedded Systems

>4th year
Capstone where everyone actually does shit
[if you're unlucky] Ethics
Electives [for CE]:
Compilers
Computer Vision
Computer Graphics
VLSI Design
Networks
Cryptography
Reverse Engineering
Information Theory
Convex Optimization
Distributed Computing
among others

>>8269825
The one who asked here. This looks looks a bit like a copypasta, just meant to insult. Just in case i'm wrong:

At what college did you take the courses exactly to know the courses there are so bad? (I'm german and the CEs here have almost the same classes as CS-mayors)

>>8269908
American CS is German Informatiks

>>8268780
There's CS degrees that don't cover that? What the heck do they even study then?

>>8269917

Many schools baby their CS majors and offer easier CS probability courses rather than send them over to math/stats. I've even seen crippled CS matrix algebra courses.

>>8269914
Yeah, right, but CE is german Ingenieurinformatik. And at my uni Informatik-students and Ingenieurinformatik-students have almost the same courses, if the CS courses aren't even harder(CEs didn't have an intro to analysis or TCS).

>>8268749
Code monkey for life.
With average income.
Living the dream yeah...
Until you turn 40 and realize your career is still at the same level it was 20 years ago.
You still write code and some brainless economic/management fag is calling the shots around and getting all the profits for the work that you do.
But look at the bright side, you drive an average car, fuck an average girl and live in an average house/apartment. And that's if you're lucky.

I'm a second year CS student. I'm thoroughly enjoying the course. I can't see how it relates to the real world. I just want to be paid to program and keep all the money to myself by not having kids.
Thanks for reading.

>>8269803
>>8269825
This Persons list is clearly biased. This is my schools program

Computer Science:
Prereqs:
Calc 1/2/3 same courses math majors take
Discrete math course, which surveys complexity, graph theory, combinatorics, set theory. Class was proof based, and around 30% dropped/failed.
CE takes two circuits classes that aren't typically aren't seen as hard
Programming in C, class is very time consuming and about 20% drop class in two weeks. This course is required/recommended by most natsci/eng majors


General requirements:
Algorithms/data structures, this our weed out course, it's takes ~40 hours For each project which are given every 10 days, C++ (optional CE)
Computer arch course
Complexity course. This is a proof based math course. Around 20% of the students are math majors, CS majors get destroyed by this course, but I think thy changed it slightly last year. CE doesn't take this one
Stats/Prob course, you get three choices here, they vary in difficulty and scope, so you get what you want
CE chooses 2 from algorithms/data structures, signals, more circuits, or microprocessor design

Linear algebra isn't required but if you don't take it, you are severely limited for course selection, as about half the upper level courses require it.

There are 7 upper lever courses both CS/CE majors get to choose from a pool of electives, around 70% are common to both. What you take is based on what other courses you've taken. There's a range of electives, these include
software focused courses like web , Os, and, Advanced OOP.
theoretical math courses like algorithmic theory, cyptography, formal verification. Architecture
CE stuff, microprocessor design, architecture, Vsli
AI/ML: robotics, machine learning, computer vision

It's worth noting that there are easy and difficult courses in each area, I.e our cryptography course is easy, while the oop course is considered the hardest course offered by the university.

>>8270431
>being that delusional

>>8268780

a reasonable demand honestly

>>8270792
Sorry linear algebra is required for CS, but not for CE

>>8270431
"The median annual Software Engineer V salary is $127,475, as of July 29, 2016, with a range usually between $115,235-$141,113"

average yeahh ok buddy. if your "average bitch" also makes at least 40k a year. your now a upper class household (the 5%)

but this is bait and i got baited

I want to be a game programmer (indie developer) so I'll be studying SE.

It's the only reason why I even care about STEM.

>huh duh you're dumb.
I don't like math, is boring shit and I rather study humanities or art.
Also college math is baby easy as fuck.
I simply don't like math becuase is boring as fuck.

>>8270792
>Proof-based discrete math course required
>Linear Algebra isn't required for CS
lol Americans...

>>8270877
>>8270830
It is mate, required for cs, not for ce.

why would one major in Computer Engineering vs Computer Science? Unless Im wrong it seems like these lead to jobs with a similar pay scale. Is it a dick measuring thing?

>>8270979
will i make more money or something with the CE degree?

>>8268749
If the only argument you can make for why your major is good is that you can earn good money then finding a single non-CS major making good money is enough to show you why your major is pretty much meaningless.

If you are generally interested in science then CS will leave you wanting more, only giving you introductory courses in physics and maybe chemistry.

You should study: An actual science with the right CS electives

If you are generally interested in computational science then again CS will leave you thirsty barely teaching you any modern applied mathematics and science, as mentioned before.

You should study: Mathematics with the right CS electives

If you are generally interested in computers then computer science will leave you thirsty because you will be lacking in the hardware side.

You should study: CE or EE and the right CS electives.

If you are generally interested in technology then CS will leave you lacking, covering just not enough applications.

You should study: Electrical Engineering and the right CS electives

If you are interested specifically in making useful software then CS will leave you lacking because CS simply has too much theory for you.

You should study: Software Engineering.

Now, why would someone study Computer Science instead of the recommendations I've laid out.

CS does not produce professionals, it produces overqualified techs who get introductory courses in many different disciplines that don't actually connect that much in practice.

>>8271017
What if you want to become a code monkey? Employers generally look for people with CS degrees and it's easier to land an internship code-monkeying if you're majoring in CS.

>>8270431
This is painfully accurate. CS fags always have this delusion that they are destined for great things or even above average. They end up eternally mediocre which is really shit when you compare to other STEM degrees.

I am telling you not the computing on computers, we have enought good computers, software sucks, and the fact you are not having snowboard halls with girls in swimsuits snowboarding suck even more, because you are virgin at computers or something... Virgins at physics...

>>8271174
A Software Engineer degree quite literally makes you a better code monkey. Except becaue you are actually specialized you will probably the manager of the code monkeys.

I guess CS does lead to code monkeying but that is nothing to be proud of unless you have your own business.

When I imagine the /sci/ I imagine that their goals have to do with research and being at the cutting each of their fields. Not necessarily in academia though. Code monkeying is not really cutting edge.

>>8271207
the thing with software engineering is, where im from New Hampshire/Massachusetts , there are like no schools that have it. In mass there are 3 schools, all private schools,i cant afford to pay 40,000 in tuition

>>8271207
So having a software engineering degree makes you a more attractive candidate for code monkey positions than having a computer science degree does?

>>8271017
I just want a degree that'll get me a job that pays well. Is CS the right choice?

>>8271262
then move. people your age do it all the time.

>>8269825
>source?
your ass.

>>8270834
>Software Engineer V (5)
>Highest level of software engineer is only making $127k avg.
>Most of those are in high-expense areas
>Software Engineer I makes $64k

LOL
Go back to playing games and failing Discrete Math.

>>8271383
>only 127k
Autistic Math Major detected. Hows that 300k

>>8271303
Degrees aren't job training

>>8271383
Software Engineer V In Boston Metro make 140k average

Software Engineer V in New York City make 147k average

these are high expense areas

>>8271383
really though what Bachelor degree pays substantially more then that?

>>8270792
>Discrete math course, which surveys complexity, graph theory, combinatorics, set theory. Class was proof based, and around 30% dropped/failed.

Are you trying to imply that Discrete math is hard? The proofs in the class are 99% unwrap the definition of the structure and follow your nose trivial.

>Algorithms/data structures, this our weed out course

How the hell is algorithms a weed out course? The hardest algorithm you'll typically see is Floyd Warshall.

>Programming in C, class is very time consuming and about 20% drop class in two weeks

Programming in C is no harder than programming in any other language. I will never understand how CS major have a "i cant do it" complex with C and pointers.

>software focused courses like web and Advanced OOP.

These shouldn't even be college course.

>Linear algebra isn't required
>electives, these include ... algorithmic theory, cyptography, formal verification. Architecture

All of those should be required courses in any non-shit program.

>theoretical math courses

Just because a course uses sets and has derivations does not make it a "theoretical math course".

>>8269803
See the ACM and IEEE Computer Society curricula

>Mathematics Requirements in Computer Science
>While nearly all undergraduate programs in computer science include mathematics courses in their curricula, the full set of such requirements varies broadly by institution due to a number of factors. For example, whether or not a CS program is housed in a School of Engineering can directly influence the requirements for courses on calculus and/or differential equations, even if such courses include far more material in these areas than is generally needed for most CS majors. As a result, CS2013 only specifies mathematical requirements that we believe are directly relevant for the large majority of all CS undergraduates (for example, elements of set theory, logic, and discrete probability, among others). These mathematics requirements are specified in the Body of Knowledge primarily in the Discrete Structures Knowledge Area.

>We recognize that general facility with mathematics is an important requirement for all CS students. Still, CS2013 distinguishes between the foundational mathematics that are likely to impact many parts of computer science—and are included in the CS2013 Body of Knowledge—from those that, while still important, may be most directly relevant to specific areas within computing. For example, an understanding of linear algebra plays a critical role in some areas of computing such as graphics and the analysis of graph algorithms. However, linear algebra would not necessarily be a requirement for all areas of computing (indeed, many high quality CS programs do not have an explicit linear algebra requirement). Similarly, while we do note a growing trend in the use of probability and statistics in computing and believe that this trend is likely to continue in the future, we still believe it is not necessary for all CS programs to require a full course in probability theory for all majors.
>http://www.acm.org/education/curricula-recommendations

>>8269480
it's not that i want to separate them at all. actually im planning to go into a physics honors program with specialization in physics-mathematics. it's just that for me i look at the computer science or engineering aspects as far extremes of the academic spectrum; from trying to work with a subject that might allow you to adhere to principles of logic, or the control testing parameter principles from EE, i find that physics lets me approach it with my own mathematical toolset and my own engineering dogma for how to apply my results in the real world. i just don't know what job prospects i would have as i'd be coming from a low income family if i go this route instead of computer science.

>>8270979
>why would one major in Computer Engineering

Because some people aren't slacker druggies and actually want to learn in University and not there just get a piece of paper.

Guess what, my CS degree made me calculate triple integrals. Where's your 300k starting now?

>>8270792
Thanks.
In the german uni i am at, actually almost all courses i have done yet were proof-based if they were just closely related to something mathematical. Even intro to data structures.

CS degree with minimum math requirements (everything but differential equations, but it's never come up as an issue) here.

Got hired by Google/Microsoft/Amazon-tier company right out of college with total first-year compensation (salary+stocks+bonus) just north of 200k. The hate for CS on /sci/ is truly just a meme. I literally know nobody from my high school or from other majors at my university making anywhere near this much. Study CS if you want to study CS. Study math if you want to study math.

>>8269927
Ah yeah, there are some CS degrees that are academic, and then others that teach them to become glorified software engineers. Unfortunately, the latter is still doing well in the job market.

>>8270792
Actually, >>8269825 is really accurate to most CS degrees. Your list looks more like CE.

>>8271303
>>8271430
That being said, CS is close to job training.

>>8272944
You spoke the truth. Dubs confirm it.
Yet you can get into CS jobs with a math degree too.

>>8273011

Same guy here. It's true. One of my interviewers was a SE with a math degree. He was more interested in asking me questions about graphs from a slightly more theoretical standpoint, but he wasn't a douche, and the answers weren't anything beyond what you'd get from a so-called "watered-down discrete math course."

Any elite kids here that can help me fix the algorithm I'm trying to implement? Stackoverflow wasn't very helpful

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/38953381/0-1-knapsack-vector-merging-by-kellerer

>Computer science is engineering
I think you mean software engineering.

>>8273574
Software engineering is not engineering either in the classical sense.

Is Computer Engineering > Computer Science? Will this give me the versatility to allow me to be either a software developer/engineer and a computer hardware engineer if I like? Seems like CE is more prestigious also.

>>8273698
There also seems like there are a lot more jobs on the software side then the hardware

>>8269207

Computer Science is a broad filled, and there is a big difference in curriculum depending on the school you go to. You cannot compare CS at Stanford to some random university. CS at Stanford is almost entirely theoretical, while lesser schools will focus on more practical applications of CS such as programming.

I completed my master's degree in CS at ZTH and I had only one semester with programming for example.

>>8271303
No. It will give you no job because they were all taken by rajeet.

>>8268749
I'd like to call out my boy Pajeet
You smell and need to learn to poo in the loo

>>8269917
some places probably offer cs which is basically a code academy program.

Just graduated with a CS degree from CU boulder in may. Working at visa now.

mfw 70% failure rate in my CS freshman year

>>8273719
No way I was in Zeta Tau Eta as well

>>8274006
Oh shit I'm going be going to CU boulder soon, was the curriculum for CS very good there?

>>8273698
I would say CE > CS at undergrad, but in either case you're gonna have to be interested in the course or else it will be difficult. If all you want out of it is to become a software engineer, then you could choose a degree in quite literally any subject. Many people do a taught postgraduate course that lets them transition into programming jobs, or they study a STEM subject and do enough coding on the side that they can just get a job.

>>8271465
Oh did you take discrete math with me, who taught our class again? Class is hard. The proofs they ask aren't trivial.

The material in the algorithms course isn't particularly hard. The class doesn't deal with the theory so much, as understanding algorithms, data structures, and time/space complexity. The projects require use of all these, and the point is you understand them through practice. the projects are long, and unforgiving. If you start late, you will fail the project. If you go about solving a problem in a different way than what was intended, you will fail. It's workload is what makes it difficult and not necessarily the material
>inb4 it's not even theory
The analogy I'll draw is learning calc 1/2 before taking analysis. We have later courses that deal specifically with algorithmic theory

The programming based courses aren't hard. They're time consuming. It's hard to do 100 math problems in an hour. It's hard to write 1000 lines of code in a week that work perfectly. Programming in C is harder than Java, or scripting in Python.

Designing large scale software systems are much harder than you think. i don't really think the courses are worth taking, but if your aspirations are code monkeying it up, then they probably are. A couple managers/executives at tech companies people that take the AOOP course are considered the some of the best coders from any university.

It's not as beneficial for someone to take cryptography if they're interested in AI. It's not as beneficial for a computer engineer to take theory of algorithms, instead of another microprocessor class. It's not beneficial for a web designer to take architecture. they try to give people freedom to prevent "jack of all trades master of none"

you haven't taken them, you can't write them off. I assure you that they don't "just use sets", and that they are actual math classes. Some of these courses are even electives for math grad students.

>>8272984
Mine is similar to most competitive computer science programs. The difference between CE and CS is that CE takes required circuits courses and have less access to some of more inside the box stuff

>>8274141
>It's not as beneficial for someone to take cryptography if they're interested in AI. It's not as beneficial for a computer engineer to take theory of algorithms

It's beneficial for everyone learn ALL the fundamentals. This kind of anti-intellectualism is cancer

>"why do I have to learn programming when I'm going to be mopping floors"

>>8274190
>anti-intellectualism
Nice $5 dollar buzzword

You understand what specialization means right? There are upper level 30 electives, all of which deal with a fundamental part of computer science. What it comes down to is whether stochastic processes is more important than databases to you, or computer security is more important than operating systems. Theory of algorithms is very important but so is networks, and microprocessor architecture. Oh but you should know about logic circuit synthesis and programming language design. Hell any decent computer science major should know compiler construction. And if you didn't take vsli design you may as well Kill yourself.

All the courses are important in someway, the university lets you choose which ones seem the most important to you however.

>>8274075
It's pretty decent. You're allowed a decent amount of flexibility it the cs classes you take outside the cores like data structures, algorithms, OS. Some of the professors aren't very good. Only had a couple that i would call good the rest were just alright. I thought it was pretty easy (hardest class i took was compiler construction) but lots of people struggled in many classes from what i overheard.

>>8274288
>>specialization
>in undergrad
>by taking one course

kek

>>8274307
You would take 5 courses in an loosely grouped area. I.e if you were interested in AI you might take machine learning, AI, robotics, natural language processing, and maybe you take something else like operating systems

>>8274339
>only taking a semester worth of upper level courses

This is why CS majors aren't respected here.

We did Dijkstra-style Hoare-triple-based formal verification in the second trimester of the first year. Challenging, but it was the most interesting course of the whole program.

>>8274346
Req:
4 math courses
1 prob/stat
2 intro courses
1 Chem + lab
2 physics + lab
5 core courses
5 electives
1 Techcom
4 distribution requirements (math or science usually)
And then you have 15 extra credits to fill. Usually you'll just take cs courses

I failed my first year of CS, doing it again..if I fail again...I'll study something about space or stars idk.

>>8274366
>5 core courses
>5 electives

I hope you don't think that's impressive

>>8274346
i mean that'd be a good program. But that's too narrow for a US program, and pretty idyllic. The idea of having no physics and chemistry is laughable. And digital logic/networks should be made optional. Circuits made mandatory. About half the math classes while cool, are probably not as relevant as other courses. Geometry, algebra, numerical analysis, proofs would be better be as optional. It'd be much more worthwhile to just make linear algebra proof based instead.

>>8274377
I miscounted we have 6 core. Our mathematics department has 12 major courses for comparison. I think this is pretty typical for American universities

>>8274393
>And digital logic/networks should be made optional.
This. While i did take a digital logic course and it was interesting it doesn't really improve your computer science skills much. The fact that >>8274346 has circuits and microelectronics even as electives is somewhat wrong as though are definitely not the realm of comp sci.

>>8274410
as those are definitely not the realm of comp sci*

>>8272944

No one is saying CS is shit because of shitty job opportunities, we're saying you learn next to nothing in it. You've could have gotten that Google/Microsoft/Amazon-tier job with any major.

>>8274133
Former pre law major here; how would I go about doing this then?

>>8273698
Yes, yes, and yes.

>>8274500
This.
With the slight exception that you actually learn something if you have decent theory classes and you pay attention.
However if you worth even a tiny shit then you can most likely learn that by reading a book. However a CS degree with good theory isn't so bad.

CE will give you a broader understanding and you will actually know how a computer works + diff eq. and signals and systems will make sure you aren't a CS level retard.
Also, you can most likely take CS heavy or EE heavy electives depending on what you want to do later.

You can most likely go into a EE/CE/CS MSc with a CE BSc.

>>8274519
>pre law major

That's not a thing dude. Law schools accept any major.

>>8274401
>I think this is pretty typical for American universities

And hence why CS is viewed as a "for retards" major like business.

Have a final in Algorithms and Datastructures tomorrow. Where can I find some practice problems?

>>8268749
Alright you cuck beta nerds, tell me about the Curry-Howard correspondence and how it bridges type theory and coding theory.

>>8274560
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Programming-Interviews-Insiders-Guide/dp/1479274836

>>8274535
I know that. Technically, my major was Politcal Science.
>inb4 autists screaming about poorfag

>>8274570
have a pdf anywhere?

Major in physics, focus on experimental high energy. We process a butt ton of data and deal with interesting hardware. You'll prob be set for whatever engineering you might want to do. Or finance if you want to sell your soul even more.

>>8270920
Linear Algebra is a must for CE, you don't even know what you are talking about.

>>8274580
http://golibgen.io/view.php?id=1195367

>>8274591
I'm literally reading reading the requirements from my university's CE website. Linear algebra is not required for CE, I assume they cover parts of it in other classes they take I'm not sure. However they are not required to take a dedicated class in linear algebra.

>>8274544
Only by /Sci/

>>8274620
http://blog.jeffreymcmanus.com/1924/more-universities-should-shut-down-their-computer-science-programs/

>>8274598
thanks anon

>>8274638
Did you read the article? The guys saying that computer science programs are teaching people "academic computer science" and not how to code. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

>>8274663
>CS majors don't want to learn CS
>They use their electives to avoid CS
>Then come out as retards that only know how to code login pages with ruby on rails

I guess this is as good of a place as any to ask:

I'm reading Computer Systems A Programmers Perspective on my own, and am stuck on pic related.

I don't understand mechanically how they're using these summations.
For the practice problem Hex: A, in binary is 1010.
w = 4 so I sum up to 3.
What is x subscript i? Is the bits?

0(2^0)+1(2^1)+0(2^2)+1(2^3) = 8 ?
What is this supposed to mean?

>>8274687
Yeah x_i is a bit in the number.

2 is your base so you multiply each place with 2^i starting at i = 0

look at base 10 for example,

416 = 10^0 * 6 + 10^1 * 1 + 10^2 * 4

>>8274695
What does the 8 mean then? Am I supposed to convert it to something else?

>>8274708
8 is the value in hex (and base 10 in this case)

>>8274708
>>8274713
err wait should actually be 10 in base 10, A in hex

>>8274687
Damn that's a retarded notation.

>I don't understand mechanically how they're using these summations.

You don't understand addition?

>0(2^0)+1(2^1)+0(2^2)+1(2^3) = 8 ?
>0(1)+1(2)+0(4)+1(8) = 8 ?
>2+8 = 8 ?

>What is this supposed to mean?

It's an example of casting unsigned number to signed.

You should get
0 0 0
3 3 3
8 8 -8
A 10 -6
F 15 -1

Complement math is just clock math. Going back 1 hour is the same as going forward 11, going back 2 is the same as going forward 10, etc. Instead of 12 hours you have 2^w, the first half positive and the second negative.

12's complement would go like this:
Unsigned [0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 0 1 2 3 4]
Signed: [0 1 2 3 4 5 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4]

Hey guys, i'm trying to write a code to find powers, like you give it an x and a y and it does x * x * x... y times. But while I was cleaning I saw in the window of a maths lecture they we're doing y with like a float and I dont really know how to translate that to my code. If its 2 and 2.5 do you do 2 * 2 * 0.5?

>>8274821
it's a bit more complicated than that
2^(2.5) = 2^(5/2) = sqrt(2^5)

Calculating fractional exponents is a bit more complicated. Check out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nth_root_algorithm

there might be a better way, i'm not sure.

>>8274821

for floating point powers you can just do: e^(y*ln(x))

const unsigned precision=40;
double exponential(unsigned n, double x)
{
double sum = 1.0;

for (int i = n - 1; i > 0; --i ){
sum = 1 + x * sum / i;
}

return sum;
}

double log_natural_frac(unsigned n, double x){ //ln(1-x)
double sum=0;
for(int i=n-1;i>0;--i){
sum*=x;
sum+=x/i;
}
return -sum;
}

double log_natural(unsigned n, double x){
double e=exponential(n, 1), log=0;
int power=1;
double ePow=e;
while(ePow<x){
ePow*=e;
power<<=1;
}
ePow/=e;
power>>=1;
while(power>0){
if(ePow<x){
x/=ePow;
log+=power;
}
ePow/=e;
power>>=1;
}
if(x>1){
x/=e;
++log;
}

return log+log_natural_frac(n,1-x);
}

double power(double b, unsigned long long n){
double result=1, bPow=b;
while(n){
if(n&1){
result*=bPow;
}
bPow*=bPow;
n>>=1;
}
return result;
}

double power(double b, double e){
if(e<0){
return 1/power(b,-e);
}
double result=power(b, static_cast<unsigned long long>(e));
e-=static_cast<unsigned long long>(e);
if(e==0){
return result;
}
return result*exponential(precision, e*log_natural(precision, b));
}

>>8273719

Anon, what would you say gives you an edge over other graduates in Germany/Swiss, concerning topics I mean?

>>8268749
Can i add there are a number of non-scientific subjects which compliment CS very nicely, specifically
- Latin and Greek, up to the standard at which one can read the classical works. It gives insight into grammar in a palatable way for formal programming.
- Theological philosophy classes, these are actually really useful for contemplating abstract ideas, even if you don't care for it.

There are bound to be others too.

>>8274752
>>8274715
>You don't understand addition?
Looks like I made a multiplication error.

Thanks, guys.

I teach at an art University yes I said it art! And we even have mandatory C++ courses in the first year that also covers vector math/quaternions, matrices etc. Students need to be able to write shaders and strong/weak AI algorithms. It just seems that entire world is not even trying.

>>8275460
>strong/weak AI algorithms

Just call them game/NPC AIs

Alright guys, CE major here. I'm trying to pick a concentration for the EE side of my degree. Is RF/Microwave circuits & electromagnetics a good area to get into?

>>8268749
Hey so I'm a biochemist and I'm trying to do more computational chemistry and bioinformatics. I've done some work with both and can use the databases and associated programs well enough. My coding isn't very strong though, I do the silly codeacademy python stuff but I don't think it's really that helpful.

Anyone know any good modules or languages I should learn for biochemistry and biophysics?

>>8268780
Ha i got 23!

>>8274346
This picture is pretty much CS at my university, btw im from germany seems like us cs is pretty shit

>>8269218
what if I think it's fun

If I'm just going for bachelors how much does where I get it from matter?

>>8270834
>>8271383
>>8271445
These numbers are salary only. Total compensation includes bonus and RSU and RSU becomes a bigger and bigger factor as pay grade goes up.

Check out:
https://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10758278

>>8274842
> there might be a better way
x^y = e^(y*ln(x))

Nth-root is only useful if N is small. For sufficiently large N, the Nth root of x looks like 1.000...000abc... for x>1 or 0.999...999abc... for x<1, either of which ends up getting rounded to 1.0.

Another option is y=x^(n/d) <=> y^d=x^n and solve the latter by e.g. bisection. This can be useful if the solution might be exactly representable.

Should I do CE instead of CS?

>>8278618
yes, rwth student here and can confirm

>>8279556
Depends.

>>8279657
on what ?

>>8279668
On what you want to do/study and what your school considers CS.

>>8279674
I don't really want to do/study anything but I'm supposed to go to college and CE seems more versatile than CS.

>>8279678
If you like math and the uni offers a good CS programme (not likely in the US), go for CS.

>>8279683
I don't really like anything, so what it includes or doesn't include doesn't matter that much to me.

>>8279685
>I don't really like anything
That's too bad.

>>8269825
I know nothing about calculus and I'm 2nd year studying CS.

Do I need to know calc?

>>8279942
You and your university sicken me

>>8279942
In Massachusetts a lot of schools require Calculus I, II and III. Physics I and II. Differential Equations and Linear Algebra.

>>8280002
What do I do if the if i'm poor and live in an island with only 1 university and the cs program is just coding :(

>>8280024
where the fuck do you live mate?

>>8280025
Australia.

>>8280025
I guess Ill just have to accept that Ill always be a brainlet and never accomplish anything

>>8280002
Why? Is calculus really that important?

Also my course did involve similar books, though none of them are listed on the pic you posted.

>>8279942
>>8280179
calculus is a very basic class, introducing engineers to methods in higher math
if you don't know calculus that means you don't know any math basically. and that's fucking horrible. the direct effect for CS is that you can't learn probability or statistics without calculus

>>8280187
My course involved probability and statistics and I did well.

Even though I know jackshit about calculus it was never on my math curriculum during high school.

>>8280204
calculus is a freshman university year class
you learned basically nothing if you did statistics without calculus, honestly. it's like doing physics without calculus. it's just "things work" and qualitative study without any rigor

>>8280205
Well I'm not sure how to respond to that.

If it's really that important then I'm willing to put some time aside to try and learn it. After all my course does have high expectations on maths knowledge.

Are there any beginner web resources or books that anyone would recommend for calculus?

I'm in 2nd year CS undergrad (world-top-50s-ranking school in the discipline apparently according to QS), been thinking of doing joint CS/Stats or Data Science.

Is this a meme or a good decision?

>inb4 >getting academic advice from /sci/

All the brainlets who can't into math go into cs.
It's sad really.

>>8279696
I wish I did.


My parents told me I like dinosaurs when I was a kid and knew all the names and stuff.


Now I just feel apathetic about everything.

>>8269803

I took a lot of extra classes so my curriculum was shortened to 3 years, but it went like this for me:

>1st Year
Calc I
Intro to Java Programming
Data Structures in Java
Calc. Physics I w/ Lab
Digital Systems

>2nd Year
Calc II
Phys II w/ Lab
Comp Org. and Language Assembly
Networking Theory
Programming Language Concepts
Discrete Structures
Software Engineering
Operating Systems
Wangblows Programming

>3rd Year
Statistics
Algorithmic Analysis
Capstone
Linear Algebra
Computer Security
Numerical Analysis
Early Modern Physics

>>8280600

>All the brainlets who can't into cs go into math.

FTFY

>>8271465

>If I throw out a popular algorithm meme, people will think I know algorithms!
>Floyd Warshall
>Hardest algorithm you'll see

You're a dumb bitch, aren't you?

>>8280681
Keep telling yourself that buddy boy, it's cutesie.

>>8280600

>>8280708

The only cutesie thing is your "easy to obtain" degree. ;^)

>>8275255
what the fuck

>>8280716
You seem asshurt boi :3

>>8280728

Yeah, I just took a shit, but my anal fissure hasn't healed, so there was a bit of blood. I probably shouldn't take so much of an ass pounding, but I'll find consolation from my useful degree.

can a machine have consciousness and free will?

do you have to do a bunch of presentations if you major in CS...if so imma need a xanax

>>8280759

We did a lot of presentations at my school. I don't know how it is for big universities though.

>>8280761
like group presentations? or primarily by yourself?

>>8280737
>Yeah, I just took a shit, but my anal fissure hasn't healed, so there was a bit of blood. I probably shouldn't take so much of an ass pounding, but I'll find consolation from my useful degree.
Yeah, a good toleit paper, you're right ^^

>>8280759
Any major that puts a big emphasis on being social is shit.
Do math, it's far more challenging, interesting and none of that presentations stuff.

>>8280769

A mix of both. Capstone was a group project, but some of my classes, like Programming Languages, was a one person type of thing.

>>8280786

>Math
>Challenging

Pick one.

>>8280677
>Intro to Java Programming
>Data Structures in Java

Your school is shit.

>2nd Year
Calc II

What the fuck nigger, did you fail calculus and have to repeat it?

>Wangblows Programming

If you didn't want to learn it then why did you take the course?

I just signed up for a CS course a week ago, but reading through this thread has me worried I made the wrong choice.

Would it be possible for someone with insight to have a look at the modules list in my course and tell me what they think?

https://www.dit.ie/catalogue/Programmes/Details/DT228?tab=Programme%20Structure

>>8280787
thanks for the info mate

>>8280797
Mathematics 1 seems to be not a lot of math.
>Web dev
Fucking hell.

Don't do that anon, seems utter shit.

>>8280786
Is a BS in Mathematics comparable in difficulty to an engineering discipline?

>>8280786
What kind of jobs can i expect to have available to me?

>>8280792

I took Calc I in the Spring instead of the fall because there wasn't any room. Java is only used for the intro course. We do C and Python for year 2 onward.

>Wangblows Programming

I thought it would be fun. It kind of was, but it was so easy that I felt like my brain was rotting away. Modeling and Simulation Techniques made up for that class though. A lot more fun and way more challenging.

>>8280811
In comparison, here's the CE course:
https://www.dit.ie/catalogue/Programmes/Details/DT081?tab=Programme%20Structure

(For some reason it doesn't have the Year 1 modules on that page, so I added a screenshot from the course description page)

>>8280792
pls r8 my degree requirements:

https://ugradcalendar.uwaterloo.ca/page/MATH-Bachelor-of-Computer-Science-1

Is there a way to explain the gist of quantum computing to a curious idiot, or is there just no way I'm going to get it unless I read a few books on computing?

>>8280797

Don't let /sci/ dictate what you should and shouldn't do. Classes have very little to do with the outcome of your education. The quality of your education is based on whether or not you can sufficiently learn on your own. Most of the kiddos in the thread that are complaining about other people's curriculum are either just starting their time in college or feel insecure about their own choice in college and decided on such a school because of prestige, rather than quality. Do the first year, see how it fits for you, and then decide on staying/changing major/transferring.

>>8280820
A researcher/teacher position if you're (very) good.
Otherwise if you do applied math such as statistics, probability, PDE's and a slew of other stuff you can do the work an engineer does (better to directly become an engineer I think).
You can also become an actuary and make a lot of money.
And probably lots of other stuff I don't know about.
Math can be applied to almost anything.

>>8280816
No idea sorry. It's far more abstract though.

>>8280826
Seems like there's a higher emphasis on math and no webdev shit. It's better.

>>8280845
Just look at the modules he has. It's utter shit. WEBDEV !!! WTF ?!

>>8280854

Who cares? I hate WebDev shit with a fierce passion, but I understand it is one of the largest "fields" in computer science, so any sane school would put that module in their curriculum because that will attract students. Regardless, none of that matters if the professors are shit and can't teach students to fend for themselves when they need to understand a topic.

>>8280849
Thanks for the info, im gonna look more into it

>>8280870
Nope, in CE which he posted here >>8280826
there's none of that shit.
There's more maths too.
At least that's better and it doesn't doom you into becoming a code monkey.

>>8280875

You know what employers don't care about? The fact that your school has Linear Algebra I and II as opposed to just Linear Algebra, especially if you're going into a CS/CE field.

>>8280884
And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, gaze deep into the mind of a CS student.
How remarkable, he aspires only to become a code monkey.
He's alive, but it's as if he's already dead. Let us leave him in peace.

>>8280896

>I don't get how the real world works so I'm going to resort to flinging insults at others who do.

You become a code monkey if you are too lazy or stupid to learn anything on your own, which happen to be people who rely so heavily on taking a class that teaches the material for them. Based on your personality, I see a bright future for you, but not too bright because your IDEs color scheme hurts your frail eyes.

>>8280901
Your argument is that he should learn stuff on his own anyway so it's not a big deal if what he learns at uni is shit.
How dumb can you be ?
Learning on your own is very important on that I can agree, but learning useful and good quality stuff at uni is good too. Combine the two and BAM. Best outcome.

But I'll forgive you, It mustn't be easy to study CS day in and day out. Your brain is not used to thinking anymore. Try to change and do maths boi ^^

Well, anyways, I just found out I wouldn't be able to get into the CE course anyway due to the fact I got into uni through a community college link, but the CE course isn't available through that. So my only option right now is to do the CS course, study as much as I can outside the course and see what I wanna do at the end of Year 1 (either transfer to the CE course or stay in the CS one).

>>8280914

That's not my argument at all. Did you also fail English in high school? My argument is being specific about the classes you take have very little to do with the outcome of your education and that your education comes from your professors teaching you how to question what you do and how to learn on the fly to be prepared for a class where the prerequisite should be Linear Algebra, Graph Theory, and EM instead of being a little bitch boy, like you, who requires their school to feed them the material with a silver spoon. That is the mark of a good education. Don't delude yourself into thinking collecting your Real Anal. badge is going to help you in the long run, because you're going to get fucked anyways. Good try, though. I applaud you for your effort.

>ITT Computer Science majors have their souls torn to fucking shreds

>>8280936
>your education comes from your professors teaching you how to question what you do and how to learn on the fly
Keep thinking that while you build your shitty websites.
You're deep into the delusion but you'll realise one day when in the real world the recruiters will laugh at your degree.

>>8280945
They never learn anon.
Instead of realising they made a mistake and change majors they stick to it to not hurt their pride.
It's pathetic.

>>8280935
See It's as I said. They demand a higher standard in the CE course. CS really is shit, even your uni admits it.
Try to be the best in the CS course and go into the CE one at the end. I wish you well !

>>8280948

The only delusional one here is you and your reliance on classes to get you by, friend. I must of struck a nerve, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for your ignorance. Don't get fucked too hard in your code monkey job, though I'm sure your Real Anal. badge will soften the blow. Bye now! :)

>>8280966
Bye bye code monkey, and farewell ! Whilst I'll be exploring beautiful mathematical concepts you'll be convincing yourself that coding that login page will make you understand topology !
Kissy kissy to your mommy you special you. It must have been hard for her :3

>>8271383
fucking retard. i'm a quantitative analyst at a top hedge fund making 250k with a 30-40% bonus. kill yourself.

>>8280954
Sorry to bother you again, but would you happen to know any good sites where I could study the maths and other stuff involved with CE? I definitely think I'll be transferring over to that course at the end of this college year, so I may as well be studying it over my spare time.

>>8280981
I've heard good things of Baby Rudin (Principles of Mathematical Analysis).
Other that than I wouldn't know any english sources (khan academy helped me for the basics).
The way you'lle study maths in the CE course will be very much applied I think, a tool for the engineering basically. So I wouldn't be too scared of it.
Your best course of action is to spend all your time on the subjects you'll have in CS so they won't be able to refuse your transfer because of how good you are.
Then catch up on the maths after you've succeeded doing that.

>>8280989
Cool, thank you for all the advice :)

>>8280837
If you take the advanced level stuff, .... pretty decent.

>>8281005
what if I'm too fucking dumb to take the advanced stuff

Perhaps I might want to be a software developer/engineer and want to major in Maths should I minor in computer science or is this some shit that i can just learn on my own?

>>8281040
If you can do the minor do it. But you can learn it on your own.

>>8281040
A minor would be a waste of time. Self learn it and put what you learn on your resume.

>tfw cs major referred to and accredited as ce

>>8281005
r8 my curriculum

first semester:
- intro to programming (java, haskell & prolog)
- technical informatics (basic physics, boolean algebra, digital circuits (main content of the module), mmix)
- discrete structures (matrices, combinatorics, group theory, graph theory)
- analysis (complex numbers, sequences, series, differentiation, integrals (also indefinite), taylor expansion, ordinary differential equotations)

second semester:
- data structures and algorithms (including amortized analysis)
- operating systems (bash, c, processes, scheduling, synchronisation, memory management, file system, i/o, communication)
- formal languages and automata (up to petrinets)
- applied stochastics
- linear algebra (vector spaces, vector space homomorphisms, matrices as vector space homomorphisms, coding theory, determinant,s eigenvalue theory, scalar product space - had also several applications like pagerank, orthogonalization and linear recursive function equotations)

discrete structures, analysis, data structures and algorithms, formal systems and linear algebra were heavily proof based

linear algebra was completely fucked up, from 800 students only 200 were allowed to participate in the exams (in germany you often need to get a "zulassung" to be allowed to write the exam)

>>8282676
only in second semester, doesn't make that much sense to write about courses I don't have - it won't get easier and I have a introduction to scientific work course and a seminar before I have my bachelor thesis. also need to choose a minor, i will choose electronics engineering

http://di.ionio.gr/en/uncategorized/programme-of-undergraduate-studies-2015-2016-2/

r8 this programme

r8 my master starting this autumn

>>8282976
>masters degree
lol americans

>>8283005

Non-American countries also have Master degrees.

>>8283013
>masters degree
lol americans....

>>8283018

k

>>8282976
Functional Analysis? As in math? Do you even have the foundations for that?

>>8283036
Yes, yes and partially but not enough. I have calc I, II and linear algebra plus some unrelated math. Functional Analysis is elective and not compulsory so there's a chance they reject me if I apply for it. I've never been rejected before when applying for a course without meeting prerequisites but sure it can happen.

I'm planning to learn Calc III and topology on my spare time during 1st year such that I'm sufficiently prepared for functional analysis. /sci/ talks so much about metric spaces and what not all the time so I'm intrigued :)

>>8283055
Where I'm from functional analysis was spectral analysis of unbounded operators. Maybe my university was just being weird.

>>8283071
FA is very broad.

>>8283055
I'm not familiar with the us system but is there any measure theory in calc I or II.

>>8283018
I'm actually pretty sure it's only in America where masters degrees aren't taken seriously

>>8280792
What are the usual topics of Calc 1,2 and maybe three in the US?
Calc 1 + half of 2 should/could be nearly full Baby Rudin?

>>8283071
Y that's also part of the course where I study.

>>8283083
I'm not American, I just say Calc I, II because I figured most /sci/entists are American. No, there's no Measure Theory in the calculus class I took. It's not listed as prereq for Functional Analysis, only Single-variable/Multivariate-Calculus and Linear algebra is, so I suppose if Measure Theory is crucial it's covered in class. My university only has 4 courses per half-year so they're more broad than many courses at other universities where you might have 6 or 8 courses per half-year.

>>8283139
Calc 1
>Limits
>Derivatives
>Optimization
>Related rates
>L'Hôpital's rule
>Curve sketching
>Squeeze theorem
>Intermediate value theorem
>Mean value theorem
>Newton's method
>Basic integration
>Riemann Sums

Calc 2
>Inverse trig integration/differentiation
>Volume of solids by revolution (disc and shell methods)
>u substitution
>Trig substitution
>Integration by parts
>Series and sequences convergence tests
>Taylor approximation
>e^ix=cos(x)+i*sin(x)
>Numerical integration
>Crash course in 1st order simple ODEs and slope fields
>Intro to parametric equations

Calc 3
>Vector geometry
>Partial differentiation
>Partial anti-differentiation
>Multiple integrals
>Jacobians
>Optimization (Lagrange multipliers)
>Crash course on differential geometry (Frenet-Serret formulas)
>Green's theorem
>Stokes theorem (baby)
>Divergence/Gauss's theorem

>>8283454
So it's like applied analysis, thanks.
>>8283405
I guess they're covering operator theory maybe topology and hilbert spaces. Because measure theory and lebesgue integration usually takes up a semester already.

I'm just starting in CS at MSU. Currently learning Python and C++.
Does this show promise in my degree?

>>8284081
>Discrete Structures using Rosen
Shit
>Needing 3 semesters to learn programming and data structures
Shit
>Operating systems divided up into 2 semesters where the meat of the subject is in the 2nd which isn't required
Shit
>Algorithms only in the senior year
Shit

I'm too fucking stupid to declare CS major, what are some good majors I can declare? I heard statistics major is like 60% stats with 40% coding so I might be interested. Informatics looks like some washed down bull shit for kids, so that's not an option.

>>8284081
It looks like standard CS. It shows most of the problems CS has as an undergrad field of study.

For example, have you ever asked yourself why the fuck are you taking physics, chemistry AND biology?

Literally why?

The answer is simple, poor CS PhDs back in the day were forced by an executive to come up with a random CS degree for undergrads to get easy money but not even a PhD in the field can figure out enough shit someone without a formal background in mathematics could understand so he pretty much had to fill up half of the degree with random bullshit that has nothing to do with CS.

Yeah, it smells like shit so it smells like CS.

You wouldn't get any better even by going to Harvard so you'll be fine.

>>8284081
how the fuck is this even considered a computer science degree? There is barely any CS electives.

>>8284502
>how the fuck is this even considered a computer science degree?

>muh no true CS degree fallacy

Stop this bullshit meme already. Accept that all CS degrees are shit and then it all makes sense. Fuck.

>>8284081
>nearly half of the credit hours are not CS related
what the shit?

>>8284511
>>8284510

>>8274346
>>8280677
>>8283454
Nice list.

>>8280712
Holy bait!

>>8284497
I think they have to take biology and chemistry because of Computational chemistry or Bioinformatics.

>>8268749
You could be replaced with anybody who has a Coursera account and a couple of hours to spare.

Nothing but Electrical and Computer Engineers without the Electrical and engineer.

Oh, hi there, non-CS STEManon

I didn't see you there. I was merely daydreaming about all prestigious companies who are desperately throwing themselves at the feet of young, educated computer science students such as myself. But it all seems like a bother to me.

I'll probably get a cosy, well paying job in network administration for the time being. That might give me some time to work on my mathematical theories.

Oh, you didn't know? CS students aren't required to take mathematically or engineering intensive electives, but many do anyway, due to not being satisfied with the mastery of a single field. I guess that that's what separates us from the lesser STEM students.

Oh, and let your humanities girlfriend know I should be there around 8 to fix her laptop. It seems to be breaking a lot recently. If I didn't know better, I'd say she is breaking it on purpose to see me. Oh, come now. Don't give me that sour look. Women naturally are drawn to the men who can provide for them and give them a stable future. It's nothing to do with you.

Anyway, you should go back to studying hard. I envy the free time you will have when you graduate and enjoy the laid back life of a welfare recipient.

>>8288354
>woman are naturally drawn to men who can provide for them
Kek. If you think having a CS degree impresses women you are in for a world of hurt

shit on my CS program /sci/

>1st year
Intro CS 101 (Scheme)
Intro CS 102 data structures (C)
Intro Analysis 1/2
(Number theory + logic) [1 course]
Rigorous Linear Algebra

English general ed x2
[elective] x2

>2nd Year
Software Engineering 101 (C++)
Data Structures
Intro compilers
computer design (hardware)

CS logic (+ applications)
Intro stats 1/2
Intro combinatorics
Intro optimization
intro analysis 3

>3rd Year
Algorithms
Operating Systems
[elective] x8

>4th year
[elective] x10

(need >6 of 3rd/4th yr cs courses)

you don't need to take fucking physics and abstract algebra as a CS major, but stats/optimization/calc 3 is necessary if you want to get into good team (not the meme google/etc. but top CS startups in ML/data science)..you'll never learn enough math + cs theory in undergrad to ever do real work at google/etc. (i.e. get into Microsoft Research) anyway

>>8288369
Jesus man, JESUS.

>>8288369
women view all men with STEM degrees as nerd creeps
STEM degree is actually a turnoff for most women

>>8288437
I literally have my girlfriend's twat juice drying in my pubes at this very moment.

>>8288437
bullshit. whats a turnoff is being a social awkward autist. Combine good social skills, good looks and a excellent paying STEM job and were talking pussyville. Having a STEM degree is usually a indicator of intelligence which is another attractive trait to "women" but not to little girls

>>8288494
>wanting ((("women"))) instead of cutie grills

>>8288496
This

>>8288496
>>8288501
Yea of course, everyone on this board is a freshmen, and still date "girls"

>>8288505
No. I mean little girls as in age 10 - 12.

>>8288505
hey cuck, all redpilled non brainwashed men want 14-17 yr gf
you've been brainwashed for years into believing there is something wrong with it and that you should only love old(21+) used annoying independent women

Just a quick question-
What's the advantage of using a boolean operator over a numerical 0/1 operator?

>>8288576
With 0/1, some asshole with an editor can modify it to [math]2^{32}[/math]. Whereas boolean values use less memory and return only true or false.

>>8288576
>>8288576

you can cleanly toggle a boolean as true/false with "var = !var"

>>8288423
>starting in scheme just to abandon it
>doing data structures in C and not C++
>needing a third programming course just for C++
retarded

>>8288576
>boolean operator
You mean logical?
>over a numerical 0/1 operator
You mean bit-wise?

You can do stuff like:
>if(array1.size() && array2.size()) //if neither sizes are 0
>//make a matrix

If it was bitwise and array1 was 16 elements and array2 was 8 elements bitwise ANDing would return 0.

What Unis do Britbongs recommend for CS? I'm thinking of applying to Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle, Exeter and York?

>>8289462
Birmingham, Edinburgh, UCl, and of course Oxbridge

>>8288617
You start in c typically so understand how data structures actually work, and memory and shit

>>8288549
>hey cuck, all redpilled non brainwashed men want 10-12 yr gf
you've been brainwashed for years into believing there is something wrong with it and that you should only love old(17+) used annoying independent women

>>8288549
hey cuck, all redpilled non brainwashed men want 10-12 yr gf
you've been brainwashed for years into believing there is something wrong with it and that you should only love old(17+) used annoying independent women

>>8288617
>starting in scheme just to abandon it
go back to your codemonkey realm.. scheme is used to understand algorithms/cs theory fundamentals

C++ course is OOP in C++14 + Software engineering shit (version control, etc.) + intro to linux..the best practical "programming" course you will ever get in this program, and its the only one in all 4 years

>>8280849
>Math can be applied to almost anything.
This is true and definitely helps with engineering. I saw guys with dual mscs in engineering and applied math.

Would a student with a BS in Mathematics and a Minor in Computer Science be more employable then a student with a BS in Computer Engineering? What do you think would be the more favorable path

>>8290483
That is as a Software Engineer

>>8290485
If you want to program do computer engineering or computer science. If your ambition is to become a programmer those majors will get you into more interviews. If you're dead set on doing a "real" major do statistics instead. You'll get snapped up real quick, with a comp sci minor.

>>8290520
Thanks for the info

Im guessing that would lead to an statistician job or an actuary job?

>>8290535
Not at all. Most comp sci majors only took a single stats course. Data Science, machine learning, you'll get snapped up in one of those positions in a heart beat. Actually Your best shot at getting a job at Google is being a statistician

>>8289540
>I have never coded in C++ but I'm going to opinion anyway

>>8289804
>scheme is used to understand algorithms/cs theory fundamentals

Except your data structure class is in C so you're not touching the cool world of functional data structures meaning you learn scheme for nothing. And since it's in a different language, you're wasting time learning C when you could have done that the previous semester.

>>8290483
>Minor in Computer Science

A minor in CS is absolutely worthless. Just learn CS topics on your own and list it on your resume as computer skills.

>>8290580
>hur hur I'm an idiot
I've coded in C/C++ for 4 years.

Most universities that use C/C++, use C or C++ with just the c library, and build their own vectors, dictionaries and essentially build their own STL, to understand what the fuck a map or a vector is. Then in second course they only use the STL, and build programs with these data structures and algorithms.

>>8290605

Exactly, there's no reason not to just use C++ and ban STL.

>>8290620
Sure there is. C is useful for CE, Robotics. CS to a lesser extent, but still relevant. Worth learning it, in case you need to fuck around with a micro controller later, or want to build robots

>>8290637
You're not playing with micro controllers in data structures.

>>8290659
It's worthwhile to know.

>>8290676
You can pick C up when you need it.

cs grad here, working as software engineer

i chose cs major because i already knew how to program, i enjoyed it and was already pretty good at it at a young age. Having that i could use all my free time to study and do whatever i wanted. I still learned introductory physics, chemistry, calc 1/2/3, discrete math, probability and stats, linear algebra, AI, comp security, comp networks, image processing, theory of computation etc. Without CS major i probably wouldn't have such broad knowledge of different topics in computer science and be able to program practically anything that i want now, EFFICENTLY.

Of course you can learn CS on the side, you can learn anything on the side.

For me CS was the most practical( i started earning money very quickly in college). This doesn't mean that i stopped learning and exploring math, which obviously is essential to creation of sophisticated algorithms and data structures, and NO i don't need university or professors to learn advanced math or physics

oh and also I program and experiment with neural networks and their learning behaviors(doesn't that make me a scientist?)


and i make more money than you working half the time from home or wherever i want

>>8269218
Uhhhh actually...

I don't understand going to school for CS, and not Mathematics instead if you were interested in Computer Science. Not like you can't take CompSci electives for your math degree, and network with the compsci students to build startups. All my compsci professors had Math PhDs and took compsci in their spare time basically as pioneers back in the day.

Everything you want to know in a CS class you can teach yourself by reading K&R, CS:APP (Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective), Lion's Commentary on UNIX, and SICP. The math degree you get will cover graph theory/networks, automata and other CS theory, proofs, satisfiability (SAT solvers), Sagemath/Coq for proving program correctness, analysis of alogorithms ect so no need to major in CS really and subject yourself to all those unnecessary java courses they throw at you "Principals of Imperative Programming.. with Object Oriented language we invented and are trying to shill like Eiffel". No thkx

>>8291141
Hmm good question this is what I thought of doing actually. I dont want to major in Computer Science so I'm thinking of just doing Computer Engineering or Mathematics. I'm scared I wont get hired if I major in Maths though.

>>8291141
>If you're interested in computer science you should be a math major

Besides that, whatever math you need to lear you can pick up on the way. You can learn C++ on your own, just as well as algebra. Do what you're interested in, and not what other people tell you. Make your own path, don't a be a sheep.

>>8291161
Every single quant trader/HFT/Wallstreet programmer has a math degree (usually a PhD if Sr. Quant).

Stallman had a Physics degree, the guy's who wrote SICP have math PhDs, Don Knuth (Art of Programming) is a Mathematician.. ect ect

>>8291182
there were no cs degrees a the time these people got their phds...

besides to those saying u can learn cs degree on the go, i can say the same about math/physics...

>>8291396
Learning CS is like learning how to eat
Learning math is like learning how to fly a fighter

>>8291399

>Learning math is like learning how to fly a fighter

kek

I've been studying CS for two semesters now.
You guys scared me, so I changed my major to math. Was that the right decision?

>>8291396

>>8291182
Is correct, CS is babby stuff after a maths major.

So am I better off with math or computer engineering if i wanna be a soft dev

really trying to make the right choice with this major thing

>>8288888
Just Checking
Nothing personnel kid

>>8292323

Pick whatever you want to learn. If nothing interests you then just get a job.

>start comp sci at university
>classes full of autists who can barely communicate
>90% of them smell and could probably barely take care of themselves
>even the lecturer was a creepy autist cunt talking about "muh pc vs mac, muh microsoft super corp, etc, etc"
>the one girl in any of my classes was mung as fuck and unironically had tourettes lmao
I don't know why I was expecting something better, I thought surely it couldn't be as bad as the stereotype.

>dropped the main programming class
>failed the test code based class
>absolutely fucking destroyed statistics (pretty baby tier but interesting) and math (decently challenging calc)
And I pretty much got instantly accepted into the new major I switched into, Surveying. Less programming based, more math and a little physics based. Quite a lot of jobs going around in my area for the profession. A lot more girls in the classes because the incentives to get women into Engineering type fields. And a lot less autistic because you're not in front of a computer all day programming.

Not to discredit CS majors or anything but from my experience at least, if you're not a pretty far gone autist you'll suffer due to the huge amount of them in the field. Even if you're shit at interacting but still present yourself well, there's more than a glimmer of hope for you.

Just one man's opinion though

>>8292323

Doing something else because someone else told you to will only bring you unhappiness. CS and math will get you a good job if you know how to find a job. CS focuses more on software development than CE degrees, depending on the school you go to. People will tell you that you can't learn Math unless you take a class, but that is not necessarily true. So, do what interests you the most and take your time. You might find CS isn't your interest after a year or two and if that is the case, change your major. Figure out what fits you best and good luck.

>>8293310

I'm sorry to hear that ruined your experience for you. We only get like one or two per graduating class and whenever they're in class, they're generally told to shut the fuck up because they're distracting everyone else from the lectures.

>>8293321
Yeah the lecturer/tutor was a fucking spud as well. He had the whole 'programming is a secret club' mentality and would never give a straight answer to anything you asked or just be an arrogant prick about it acting as if everything is just so easy for him. And tried to make everyone do everything in the most outdated way possible because vim is as essential as breathing.

I think I made the right decision to switch courses though and I'm really keen to start up again next year. Have had literally nothing to do for this six month period though, thinking of trying to learn a language because why not

>>8270792
You go to umich?

>>8293311
Thanks mate. Do you think it would be easier though to find soft dev job if i major in Math or CE?

>>8293416
No, absolutely not.
CS and SE are still the most direct ways to software developement.

Yet i'd say a math degree will give deep insights in the theoretical matter, which is very satifying, and no other degree is capable of that.

>>8293533
>CS and SE are still the most direct ways to software developement.

No, the most direct way is applying for software development jobs right out of high school. Any 13 year old can learn how to do it.

>>8293541
Bait

>>8293557
>being in denial

>hurr CS[Math] is better than Math[CS]
why not just double major? it's not like they both have a lot of core classes after 2nd year
Math: Real, measure, lebesgue+fourier, abstract algebra, geometry
CS: OS, Algorithms, Compilers, + some from [DB, AI, networking, etc.]

I'm about to graduate Computer Engineering/Computer Science. I want to get a masters (don't have to pay for it) what would be a good masters? Thinking of operations research.

>>8293416

Sorry for replying so late, I went to sleep.I don't think it would be easier with Math unless you have a comprehensive background in programming. Ultimately, what it comes down to is how you apply for these jobs. Networking is important for software development jobs, as well as projects that show case your skills as a developer. You can do Math or CE if you want, but if you want to develop projects during your time at school, CS would be the direction to go. I would be wary, though. Some CS programs are not that in depth with their material and it can really screw you over when you do technical interviews. Saying you know of Dijkstra's algorithm or knowing CNNs is not the same as knowing those algorithms and concepts in depth. Math, CS, and CE are all viable options for you to do Software Development, at this point it's a matter of how dedicated are you to develop the skills needed for the job and what college path will you really enjoy in the end. Good luck and remember, don't be afraid to change away from something you don't like.

>taking cs even though I don't like it
>in second year
>all the other autists go home and program for hours
>i don't program outside of assignments
>assignments usually take me several hours to struggle through

i hate college
i hate cs
i wish i liked things so i didn't end up randomly picking cs to do

>>8293911
kys

>>8293911

Switch to another major?

>>8293923
I'm not very smart and I don't really enjoy college or have any hobbies or interests so I don't know what I'd switch to.


>>8293920
;_;

>>8293926

Drop out and do community college for a little bit to figure it out, then. A lot of people do it to restart.

>>8293930
What would I be figuring out?

>>8293945

What you want out of life, I guess.

cognitive science > computer science

how the fuck do you guys want to simulate something you don't even understand lmao

>be me
>been studying Latin for five years
>decide to go to Computer Science University just to be an edgy contrarian
>I pass all exams, but I still translate Latin and Greek stuff as an hobby

>>8268749
If you have a time machine to take you back to 2004 then yeah sure. Else - welcome to a saturated market where 8 year olds can do your fuckin job

>>8294379

>People outside my field don't have the slightest clue about these topics.

Yeah, ok.

>>8293533
I didn't mean easier then Computer Science but between those two majors

>>8293694
Thanks a lot for that. Ill keep it in mind. Good luck on your endeavors also buddy

>>8294399
so you understand how the brain works? you're in the wrong field then, because cognitive scientists are still wondering what consciousness is. you could win a nobel prize

This with the elected subjects being Industry Based Learning, which is essentialy a paid internship that counts towards getting your degree.