/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.7938591]

Explain this man with science. Why is he unstumpable? 40 million was spent on just two weeks worth of attack ads against him and his numbers increased.

[Anonymous No.7938593]

Fascism is hardly a unique or new phenomenon.

[Anonymous No.7938595]

>>7938593
/thread

[Anonymous No.7938597]

>>7938593

>he thinks trump is a fascist in any meaningful way

If Trump is a fascist, then the word is utterly meaningless.

[Anonymous No.7938601]

>>7938595

>mfw sci is filled with dumb people like this

[Anonymous No.7938614]

>>7938597
Depending on the definition of fascism, Trump and his rhetoric certainly contains aspects of fascism.

Umberto Eco's definition has 14 points.

>The Cult of Tradition , combining cultural syncretism with a rejection of modernism.

>The Cult of Action for Action's Sake, which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.

>Disagreement Is Treason - fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action.

>Fear of Difference , which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.

>Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class, fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.

>"Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat; This often involves an appeal to xenophobia (such as the German elite's 'fear'of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings, see also anti-Semitism) with an identification of their being an internal security threat: He also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.

>"Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" - there must always be an enemy to fight; Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to NOT build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.

Cont.

[Anonymous No.7938620]

>>7938614

What's wrong with fascism?

[Anonymous No.7938621]

>>7938614
>"Contempt for the Weak" - although a fascist society is elitist, everybody in the society is educated to become a hero; for example: the 1930s Germans, especially Hitler labeled Jews inferior humans thus weak as well as the physically disabled, the mentally retarded and mentally ill as weak—thus these "weak" or unwanteds were eliminated (executed) or "exterminated" (the Jews, or even Germans with disabilities).

>"Selective Populism" - the People have a common will, which is not delegated but directed by a dictator; This casts doubt upon a democratic institution, because the leader and government "no longer represent the Voice of the People".

>"Newspeak" - fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.

You look me in the eye and tell me Trump advocates or uses or embraces none of these properties.

[Anonymous No.7938622]

>>7938614

Some of these points could be applied to nearly every prominent politician in the western world. The schematic is retarded.

[Anonymous No.7938623]

>>7938620
If you're an authoritarian boot licker, then nothing is wrong with fascim.
But if you like to live in a society that's free and allows freedom of thought and speech and religion, then fascism is bad.

[Anonymous No.7938625]

>>7938593

>he things fascism is a bad thing

Cute.

I really wish trump was a fascist. It's a damn shame he isn't.

[Anonymous No.7938627]

>>7938623

Trump is an American populist, like teddy roosevelt. Don't be a retard.

[Anonymous No.7938629]

>>7938622
The schematic was created to point out properties that historical fascism has coagulated around.
The presence of the properties merely allow fascism to grow and thrive.

[Anonymous No.7938630]

>>7938591

[Anonymous No.7938633]

>>7938620
Depending on the people you talk to, a lot of things. However, >>7938593 and >>7938614 simply pointed out that Trump is at least partly fascist.

>>7938625
pic related
He didnt say fascism is bad. He said Trump is fascist. You're /pol/ and you want to advertise how alt-right and how much of an alternative thinker and enlightened you are. >>>/pol/
/sci/ requires at least basic reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.7938672]

>>7938633

See

>>7938627

The spectrum has gone so far to the left, anything slightly beyond the centre is cried about as fascism.

[Anonymous No.7938678]

>>7938672
>The spectrum has gone so far to the left
>He thinks America has a left wing

kek, you have a right wing and then a really right wing. What you see as "left wing" is actually just a cynical ploy to increase a voter base.

[Anonymous No.7938683]

>>7938678
This, so much. I can't believe there are people who think America has 'leftists'.

[Anonymous No.7938693]

>>7938678

Bernie is centre-left.

[Anonymous No.7938694]

>>7938633
> uhh /sci/ is not a diverse place where people have opinions and options
Typical Berniefag. Do America a favor and kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.7938717]

>>7938591
> Explain this man with science

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

[Anonymous No.7938721]

>>7938694

Judging from your reading comprehension (or lack thereof) I assume you're referring to the second part of my post. This guy >>7938614 literally used definitions to define fascism and prove that Trump is a fascist. No opinions. There was literally no mention of anyone wanting to suppress anyone's view, and yet you still mentioned it because you're 'ENLIGHTENED !!11!' and want 'freedom of speech'. Ironically, your god Trump doesn't. Finally, I'm not American so thank god I won't have to participate in your farce elections.

I can't stress this enough. Your lack of reading comprehension, assumptions, and willingness to spout irrelevant crap belongs to:

>>>/pol/
>>>/pol/
>>>/pol/

Piss off and never come back unless you actually start reading and critically examining other people's posts without exhibiting all the hallmark characteristics of the uneducated /pol/ stereotype.

[Anonymous No.7938728]

>>7938721

His definitions are shit and can apply to nearly any modern politician. If Trump is a fascist, fascism is meaningless.

As it has already been pointed out, he's a populist in the tradition of teddy roosevelt.

"Trump is a fascist" is an empty buzzword that is good for nothing. It's not even a good way to assassinate his character. His numbers and victories just grow even more.

As a big admirer of fascism myself, I'm telling you he is not a fascist.

[Anonymous No.7938731]

>>7938728
Define fascism then, if you're such a large admirer of it.

[Anonymous No.7938736]

>>7938728
Trump wants to
>expand the police
>expand the military
>expand NSA spying
>push censorship of "dangerous" ideas
>impose restrictions on freedom of speech
>increase the role of business in the country
How are those not the hallmarks of a fascist? For fucks sake, you faggots on /pol/ are even throwing around memes that depict him as Adolf Hitler as if it's a good thing.

[Anonymous No.7938742]

>mfw someone is a berniebot around me
fuck off berniebros

[Anonymous No.7938743]

>>7938742
Wow, nice one. You sure showed us.

Go back to your hugbox.
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.7938744]

>>7938742
>Anyone who thinks Trump is incompetent is a Berniefag

You /pol/fags are adorable.

[Anonymous No.7938745]

>>7938736
>For fucks sake, you faggots on /pol/ are even throwing around memes that depict him as Adolf Hitler as if it's a good thing.

He doesn't know /pol/ is satire.

[Anonymous No.7938746]

>>7938743
>>7938744
Jeez, oh man. I wonder who these guys are voting for.

[Anonymous No.7938747]

>>7938614
>Umberto Eco
>was an Italian novelist, essayist, literary critic, philosopher and semiotician.
in other words a guy with opinions.

>>>/lit/

[Anonymous No.7938748]

>>7938736

Many different presidents have done exactly that. Most of them. Are most of u.s. presidents fascist? Or does your shitty definition only extend to Trump? Is it pick n mix?

[Anonymous No.7938750]

>>7938746
>le gb2 reddit maymay

kek.

[Anonymous No.7938751]

>>7938746
Reddit has been the center of the alt-right community for years now

[Anonymous No.7938753]

>>7938742
>sanders not mentioned in a single post
>still brings him up and uses a /pol/ image
>>>/pol/ and fucking stay there you cancerous shit.

>>7938745
I wish pol was satire. I really do. I really really really wish it was satire.

[Anonymous No.7938756]

>>7938621
Every big time politician uses these tactics, either we're already a fascists state or it's a really shitty way of describing fascism.

[Anonymous No.7938758]

>>7938745
>I-I was just pretending to be retarded
>I-it was just an elaborate ruse

[Anonymous No.7938759]

Trump is closest to teddy roosevelt and FDR, if you think otherwise, you're a retard.

[Anonymous No.7938760]

>>7938747
Alright, here's another definition from a political theorist

>Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism". Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism and (iii) the myth of decadence". Fascism is "a genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism" built on a complex range of theoretical and cultural influences. He distinguishes an inter-war period in which it manifested itself in elite-led but populist "armed party" politics opposing socialism and liberalism and promising radical politics to rescue the nation from decadence.

[Anonymous No.7938761]

>>7938751
Man child detected. Run back to srs and circlebroke you useful-idiot, beta cuckold. Don't you have a bull to prep with Bernie Goldberg Sanders?

Anyone have real arguments?

[Anonymous No.7938765]

>>7938593

>oh look, it's the same type of retard that said George w bush was a fascist

[Anonymous No.7938767]

>>7938761
It's like you're vomiting but random nonsense phrases come out instead. I honestly don't even think there are any mental processes behind it.

[Anonymous No.7938773]

>>7938765
What do you expect from absolute fucking morons?

>>7938767
Not an argument. I thought this place was filled with rational people?

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument

[Anonymous No.7938774]

>>7938760

The key word is revolutionary. Trump is not a revolutinary.

Trump is a liberal with some conservative views on the military and borders.

[Anonymous No.7938775]

>>7938678
Or rather, the US is one of the few developed nations that still has a center and a right-wing at all. In Europe and Australia even so-called right-wing parties favor policies traditionally considered left-of-center, or even downright socialist. The fact that unassimilated immigration is considered at all as a viable solution for declining birthrates is evidence of this.

[Anonymous No.7938776]

>>7938614
The funny thing this can be applied to the modern left.

>The Cult of Action for Action's Sake, which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection.
Hope and Change.

>Disagreement Is Treason
It's 2015

>Fear of Difference
either you're a feminist or a bigot"

>Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class
Bernie's campaign

>"Obsession with a Plot"
Patriarchy

>"Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy"
"We must stomp out the fascists."

>"Selective Populism"
The whole diversity schtick.

>"Newspeak"
cis, gender fluid, islamophobe, ableist, sexist, racist, etc

[Anonymous No.7938777]

>>7938614
>Umberto Eco's definition
Oh great, let's depend on a socialist fiction author.

The first rule of defining fascism is that you don't let socialists do it. Socialists know that a "fascist" is something that non-socialists don't approve of, so they try to apply the label to anything that opposes them.

Case in point:
>Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class, fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.
Socialism is all about using the rhetoric of distributing power to the people, for the actual purpose of arranging all of society into a single totalitarian hierarchy, with the largest segment being a propertyless, powerless slave pool at the bottom.

The middle class is an actual example of distributed power. The opposite of socialism is for the middle class to grow until it encompasses the entire population, with everyone having a fair and adequate slice of the means of production under their management. This is the one thing socialists are bound and determined to prevent.

The actual middle class is largely composed of decent people who want it to grow by promoting the poor to its ranks, but the Marxist strawman middle class is a group of evil parasites who need to be dragged out in the street and shot.

>"Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat;
Socialism always seeks to advance itself by conspiratorial means. It's fundamentally about deception, plotting, infiltration, and subversion. So of course they want to ridicule their opponents as paranoid and delusional.

[Anonymous No.7938778]

>>7938736

George w bush did all that shit. Is he a fascist too?

[Anonymous No.7938779]

>>7938776
Wow, nice strawmen! If there are any ten year olds reading this thread right now, you just convinced them! Good work!

[Anonymous No.7938780]

>>7938779
Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.7938781]

>>7938760
Oh wow another guy with an opinion.
>Roger D. Griffin (born 31 January 1948) is a British professor of modern history and political theorist at Oxford Brookes University, England.
>>>/lit/

[Anonymous No.7938782]

>>7938778
Obama did all of that too, other than increasing the size of the military. Everybody must be a fascist! Who'da thunk, eh?

[Anonymous No.7938784]

>>7938778
Bush did it because of the public outcry after 9/11, and it later turned out to be unnecessary. Trump is running on doing those things just because.

It's amazing how badly you cucks want to give up your rights. You're over eight times more likely to be shot to death by police than to be killed by a terrorist in the US.

[Anonymous No.7938787]

>>7938780
Neither is yours, it's just criticizing a bunch of made up positions that very few people, if any, actually hold.

[Anonymous No.7938794]

>>7938781
>mfw

But on the off chance you're sincere:
Tell me then, faggot, who defines what fascism is? What definition is acceptable to you?

[Anonymous No.7938798]

>>7938787
what made up positions? Each one of those are easily referenced.

>Hope and Change
Obama

>
>The Cult of Action for Action's Sake, which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection.
Hope and Change.

>Disagreement Is Treason
It's 2015

>Fear of Difference
either you're a feminist or a bigot"

>Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class
Bernie's campaign

>"Obsession with a Plot"
Patriarchy

>"Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy"
"We must stomp out the fascists."

>"Selective Populism"
The whole diversity schtick.

>It's 2015
Trudeau

>"either you're a feminist or a bigot"
Gloria Allred

>Patriarchy
Pretty much any feminist out there.

>"We must stomp out the fascists."
The EU

>The whole diversity schtick.
Everywhere.

oh but these are insignificant names, am i right? you're full of shit. btw look at how much your side values freedom, it's laughable.

[Anonymous No.7938801]

>>7938721
> Stumped by Trump
Stay mad burpiefag. Don't talk about America if you hate it so much.

[Anonymous No.7938805]

You generally don't stump yourself preaching to the choir. The stump comes in the general when he realised he's done nothing but alienate the majority of people who wont vote for him.

[Anonymous No.7938808]

>>7938784
but how likely am i to be killed by a black?

[Anonymous No.7938816]

>>7938805
Pretty much this. If it were Bernie vs Trump there wouldn't be any attack other than Cuck and muh socialism.

Against Hilary though... We'll have to see..

[Anonymous No.7938817]

>>7938794
Authoritarian populism. Adding all these bells and whistles is silly, reeks of tryhard liberal arts major trying to appear smart while muddying the usefulness of the term.

[Anonymous No.7938818]

>>7938774
>Trump is not a revolutinary.

He wants you to believe he is. And "revolutionary" doesn't refer to violent overthrow of the government, if that's what you're thinking. Fascist regimes are usually voted in, historically.

But anyway, whether he's really a fascist is not really the issue. OP was asking about his appeal, and that boils down to blatantly fascist rhetoric (according to the above definitions), which is always a powerful strategy.

[Anonymous No.7938819]

>>7938816
Doesn't Hillary have an approval rate in the 20s even among Democrats? It seems the only reason people vote for her is because she's not a Republican and they're not meme enough to vote for the Bern.

[Anonymous No.7938823]

>>7938818
it's not always a powerful strategy.
the population either has to be in, or thinks it's in, a social/economic turmoil. People have to have the notion that they're suffering or be convinced that the current institutions are working against them.
with the current levels of labor-force participation, it's not hard to convince people of economic turmoil (especially those who are out of work). As for social unrest, anyone who's had their property destroyed by BLM protesters, or have been on the wrong side of a verbal hand-grenade is ready to believe that something is going wrong.

[Anonymous No.7938824]

>>7938819
old people are voting for Hillary b/c she is very pro-establishment; and old people are now part of the dependent establishment. They have enough wealth for Burnie to sieze, but they still benefit (somewhat) from the social programs they think the Democrats instated and will defend.

[Anonymous No.7938825]

>>7938819
Don't forget the feminist memes too.
But yes, an article said 30% of Sanders supporters won't vote hillary.

So give or take 15% of the dem voting base is down. she won't have an easy time

[Anonymous No.7938830]

I'm not opposed to trump policy, just trump, it's entirely possible to sell republican solutions to democrats. But his only interaction with his opponents is telling his supporters to beat them.

A simple 'I support your right to say it' to those protesters would have won him at least some voters from the other side and lost him none.

[Anonymous No.7938835]

>>7938830
>But his only interaction with his opponents is telling his supporters to beat them
Except for when he addresses their policies.

Look how much he railed on Little Marco about immigration, or Guac Man Yeb on military intervention. He's also hit Clinton on women and the second amendment.

I don't think you've watched a Trump speech in your life.

[Anonymous No.7938840]

>>7938794
Not him, but fascism is when people with conservative values adopt the tactics of the left, generally in response to an existential threat, since this involves a serious compromise of values.

For instance, when the growing Soviet Union, supported by the academic and diplomatic classes of Western Europe, threatened to swallow up all of Europe, the original Italian Fascists and the German Nazis rose by the means of seizing power they saw work in Russia, in order to put their countries on a war footing.

Where the Marxists targetted the whole middle class for looting to provide enough short-term wealth to take the next country, the Nazis just went after middle class Jews. Where the Soviets set their sights on bringing the entire world under the banner of international communism, the Nazis just wanted to take a self-sufficient territory which could be defended against both military and economic attack (they were particularly concerned with seizing agricultural land). Hitler wanted security for the German middle class, and was willing to manipulate the German lower classes (hence "national socialist") and sacrifice anyone else to gain it.

Fascism: left-wing means, right-wing ends.

[Anonymous No.7938841]

>>7938835
The democratic opposition.

[Anonymous No.7938845]

>>7938591
Which candidate values science the most?