/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.7924708]

UNI-FAGS BTFO!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.7924721]

>>7924708
>mfw walmart pays more than this shit
>mfw standing around working for my states highway transportation department holding a sign for 8 hours a day pays 12

[Anonymous No.7924727]

>>7924708
>expert in microsoft office
Is this a joke?

[Anonymous No.7924750]

>>7924708
>biology
>chemistry

There is your problem.

I can see from the line about rodents that this is mainly a biology job and the only reason they let chem majors to apply is because it is really low tier job that anyone with general biology I under their belt could do. That is the problem.

Biology as a field is really fucking crowded.
>More than 86,000 biology majors graduate each year
Source: New York Times

The average salary of a biology major 5 years after graduation is 40k. Compare to a mathematics, CS or Physics major at 70k and compare that to a PetroEng major at 100k.
Source: Payscale

Biology = Poorer than fucking Africa.

[Anonymous No.7924755]

>>7924708
This is what happens when you subsidize college and everyone with a pulse can take out a student loan.

Colleges have no reason to give a good education and they accept everyone, pass/curve everyone just to take your money.

[Anonymous No.7924771]

>>7924755
More people being college educated isn't a bad thing, you just have to put quota on majors that are already very oversaturated, like biology and psychology.

[Anonymous No.7924774]

>>7924771
Might want to read what I said because I never said more people being college educated is a bad thing.

I said giving out student loans and subsidizing college is bad for the reasons I stated above.

[Anonymous No.7924777]

>>7924750
>Everyone wants to study cute animals
>Specialize in plants
>$300k starting, any lab I want

[Anonymous No.7924786]

>>7924750

depends on if you're a pleb or not. it also depends on why exactly you went to school for biology.

if you went to school for biology because you had aspirations to be a lab assistant, you done fucked up m8.

[Anonymous No.7924789]

>>7924777

also this.

so many girls do "omg biology cause cute animals".

the amount of them that actually go on to do something academically relevant in ecology or environmental sustainability is so low.

[Anonymous No.7924793]

>>7924774
>I said giving out student loans and subsidizing college is bad
Fuck the poor right?

[Anonymous No.7924797]

>>7924793
you seriously have downs if you think poorfags getting student loans and going further in debt is a good idea.

not to mention most of them are retards anyways and colleges will just bring the standard down to keep as many of them in and soak in that loan money.

[Anonymous No.7924798]

>>7924774
Neither is giving out student loans or subsidizing college a bad thing. You just have to make sure that you're not training people for unemployment, one way of doing this is by putting quota on majors that already have too many people looking for a job.

[Anonymous No.7924801]

lmao biddies get rekt for all i care
thanks obama

[Anonymous No.7924802]

>>7924798
quota on majors won't ever happen as it goes against universities trying to accept everyone and suck them dry.

[Anonymous No.7924809]

>>7924802
Yeah I guess that's more of an issue in the US where universities act like cooperations trying to maximize profits

[Anonymous No.7924813]

>>7924809
We have 10 out of the 20 best uni's in the world because the top uni's get their money by having their degree be valuable.

If we keep letting banks give out student loans like candy then every university below the top 50 or so will go to shit. If free college happens then every state run university will definitely go to shit.

[Anonymous No.7924835]

>>7924708
>Bio saturation in the U.S.
>Implying this is the situation worldwide

Yeah, no.

>>7924786
This is the only correct answer, especially if you're in the U.S.

[Anonymous No.7924840]

>>7924813
German universities are free and they do fine.

[Anonymous No.7924843]

>>7924840
they don't compare to our top uni's.

you have long standing universities carrying you while the rest are garbage.

[Anonymous No.7924849]

>>7924840
You can only have free colleges if you have more rigorous admission standards, like the ones in Germany. If you don't, the place will get flooded with idiots and opportunists. I don't think the US has different levels in high school, so they let pretty much anyone in with a heartbeat and a sack of cash.

[Anonymous No.7924850]

>>7924843
Uni ranking has nothing to do with quality of education. US universities bleed students dry to fund research hence why they are higher ranked. German universities teach you the exact same thing for free. Explain to me howlearning thermodynamics at Yale is any better than learning it at Berlin University or whatever

[Anonymous No.7924856]

>>7924850
>Uni ranking has nothing to do with quality of education.
>this is what europoors actually believe

>US universities bleed students dry to fund research hence why they are higher ranked.
and our students get top tier research opportunities and work with THE best researchers as well as learn from them.

>German universities teach you the exact same thing for free
>"free"
right of course they do, stay delusional.

>Explain to me howlearning thermodynamics at Yale is any better than learning it at Berlin University or whatever
read above

[Anonymous No.7924859]

>>7924849
Admission standards are pointless, if you can't do a course you fail it and if you pass then you deserved to have done it whatever the admissions standards may have said. I don't see why you are advocating barring people from pursuing the career they want in a country that is all about the freedom to pursue whatever you want. If you don't make it but barring people from trying is communism.

[Anonymous No.7924864]

>>7924856
You just proved my point it only matters for research and contacts. Thermodynamics is thermodynamics. And it's not like the lecturers in Berlin never worked in the US so on top of everything your lecturers are more or less the same.

[Anonymous No.7924874]

>>7924864
>You just proved my point it only matters for research and contacts.
that's only one of the reasons.

>Thermodynamics is thermodynamics
uhh no, you will learn much more at a top uni then some faggy mid-tier german uni.

when you're being taught by top researchers they will teach you things that are only found in their upcoming research papers.

[Anonymous No.7924878]

>>7924856

The German guy is actually right. The quality of education in 'europoor' countries is actually very high, but a lot of research opportunities lie mostly in UK/US universities. In Greece for example, Athens Polytechnic will not be ranked as one of the top unis for engineering for example, but a lot of its graduates get PhDs and faculty positions later on in top worldwide universities... You are deluded if you think all the researchers and lecturers you see and their education stems from top US schools or whatever. It's not delusional that many people want free education in the US just like the rest of the world has, and it's not because they have some magical education system that's better than others so that they can charge you for it.

>>7924864
This is more or less true.

[Anonymous No.7924883]

>>7924878
>The German guy is actually right. The quality of education in 'europoor' countries is actually very high, but a lot of research opportunities lie mostly in UK/US universities. In Greece for example, Athens Polytechnic will not be ranked as one of the top unis for engineering for example, but a lot of its graduates get PhDs and faculty positions later on in top worldwide universities... You are deluded if you think all the researchers and lecturers you see and their education stems from top US schools or whatever. It's not delusional that many people want free education in the US just like the rest of the world has, and it's not because they have some magical education system that's better than others so that they can charge you for it.

Yeah I don't believe this one bit. There's a difference in becoming a professors vs. becoming a leading researcher who gets employed at IBM or Intel.

[Anonymous No.7924884]

>>7924859
Well if the public are paying for a large chuck of the education, it's in their best interest to spend the money on people that have the most potential. Isn't it logical that the people with the higher grades should be the ones that go to college?

Remember that when the government pays for someones education, it's not a gift, it's an investment. The people that are college educated will pay their cost many times over in their lifetime in taxes.

[Anonymous No.7924888]

>>7924878
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.7924892]

>>7924883
Being good at research =/= being better at teaching. This should be obvious. You think you could learn maths from Mochizuki?

[Anonymous No.7924898]

>>7924884
Having good grades doesn't mean you're going to get a top job and be a good cuck slave for the government. /sci/ is a good example. Everyone here at least claims to be a top student yet they are all aiming for lowly research positions.

[Anonymous No.7924900]

>>7924892
>Being good at research =/= being better at teaching.
Our top uni's provide not only good lecturers but good researchers to learn from.

There are students in your colleges that would kill to be part of our research groups I bet.

> You think you could learn maths from Mochizuki?
If you wanted to learn from the best then america gives that opportunity. You have the opportunity to push yourself and reach his level and help with their research which gives first hand experience.

You will NEVER get that from a german uni.

[Anonymous No.7924906]

>>7924898
>Everyone here at least claims to be a top student yet they are all aiming for lowly research positions.
>claims
that's where you fucked up.

[Anonymous No.7924916]

>>7924900
How the fuck are you supposed to learn from a guy who can't even coherently explain his own theory?

I don't get the ass-backward logic of /sci/, you all laugh that undergraduate work is babby-tier yet you at the same time insist that you can only learn it from the best scientists in the world?

[Anonymous No.7924921]

>>7924900
Not the German guy, but:

>Our top uni's provide not only good lecturers but good researchers to learn from.

So do Greek and German and other European universities.

Wanting to return to a country without high-profile research =/= not being a top-tier lecturer or researcher.

>There are students in your colleges that would kill to be part of our research groups I bet.

Noone is disputing that research opportunities lie in the US anon. And I'm also not underplaying the importance of research experience, just correcting your claim that the quality of education in free europoor unis is worse.

[Anonymous No.7924931]

>>7924916
>How the fuck are you supposed to learn from a guy who can't even coherently explain his own theory?
>can't even coherently explain his own theory

you not understand =/= him doing a bad job explaining

in american uni's you have the opportunity to be as great as he is and to learn from him directly. if you choose not to take that route then our top-tier uni's are not for you.

>I don't get the ass-backward logic of /sci/, you all laugh that undergraduate work is babby-tier yet you at the same time insist that you can only learn it from the best scientists in the world?
Maybe learn to read before posting again. I specifically said that you have the OPPORTUNITY to learn from the best and do research with the best. You have no such opportunity in germany.

[Anonymous No.7924934]

>>7924921
>, just correcting your claim that the quality of education in free europoor unis is worse.
considering way less top-tier researchers come from europe I would argue this is correct.

do you want to just be some faggy teacher or do you want to push the boundaries of human knowledge?

[Anonymous No.7924936]

>must be comfortable working with rodents

[Anonymous No.7924938]

>>7924931
Well I am trying to say firstly it doesn't matter because undergrad shit isn't complex, you can even master it on your own and secondly you will not learn shit from a top researcher because they rarely teach and when they do it's half-assed because their minds are on a Nobel Prize not spotty undergrads

[Anonymous No.7924942]

>>7924934
>LHC
>Wendelstien
>ESA
>Euro researchers are shit
Murica is ahead only because they get more grant money

[Anonymous No.7924945]

>>7924938
>Well I am trying to say firstly it doesn't matter because undergrad shit isn't complex
You're wasting your time if you're not pushing yourself the moment you're in undergrad.

Our undergrads probably know more than what your masters students know.

>you can even master it on your own and secondly you will not learn shit from a top researcher because they rarely teach and when they do it's half-assed because their minds are on a Nobel Prize not spotty undergrads
so you're telling me you wouldn't learn anything off of working on cutting edge projects at MIT?

I'm afraid that's a problem with you and not with them, maybe stay in your own country and let us do the hard work.

[Anonymous No.7924952]

>>7924945
If you're from MIT how the fuck did you even get in? They're pretty good at weeding out toxics.

[Anonymous No.7924953]

>We need you to have knowledge and skills that are specific to this job.
>We need you to have a track record and experience with both the equipment in our lab and fba regulations

>entry level
>$9/hour
What the fuck am I looking at? You get more money for jacking off in a cubicle.

[Anonymous No.7924956]

>>7924945
Either you are deep in denial desperately trying to justify being rinsed out financially by your government or you are some pretentious asshole who thinks USA is the greatest just because

[Anonymous No.7924959]

>>7924945
Einstein graduated in Germany and he did fine.

[Anonymous No.7924960]

>>7924956
>gets blown the fuck out
>has no argument
fuck off retard.

[Anonymous No.7924963]

>>7924959
back then most 1st world countries had top-tier universities as people didn't do stupid shit like make college free.

there's a reason everyone comes to study in america and not germany m8.

[Anonymous No.7924970]

>>7924708

OP probably made this himself. Some of you are naive.

[Anonymous No.7924975]

>>7924708
Holy Christ this is pitiful. Those are some fairly technical skills, and they are expecting someone with a BSc (and MSc!?) to work for such shit pay?

[Anonymous No.7924980]

>>7924934
>considering way less top-tier researchers come from europe
http://web.mit.edu/facts/international.html
Lots of international grad students, but they don't stay in the U.S. Why? Because they have great countries and homes too that they love. It's much easier to have lived your life in the U.S., the country that you love, and continue to live in it while being able to do top-tier research. But international students have to leave their countries indefinitely to continue doing top-tier research. For U.S. lifelong residents, it's a convenience to have research in the U.S. For Europeans, it's a luxury not all of them can afford (not referring to the financial part either).

>do you want to just be some faggy teacher or do you want to push the boundaries of human knowledge?

This depends on the people, but their preference does NOT somehow reduce their potential for greatness as a lecturer.

>>7924945
>Our undergrads probably know more than what your masters students know.
Patriotism is one of the worst qualities you can bring to a logical discussion. Protip: Don't
Answer: No, they aren't.

>so you're telling me you wouldn't learn anything off of working on cutting edge projects at MIT?
You might have the chance to learn something more and network better, not arguing on that.

>I'm afraid that's a problem with you and not with them, maybe stay in your own country and let us do the hard work.
Look above for the problem with patriotism

[Anonymous No.7924984]

>>7924980
>Lots of international grad students,
thanks for proving my point.

>This depends on the people, but their preference does NOT somehow reduce their potential for greatness as a lecturer.
it does actually, if you're not going to push yourself as hard as other people then you probably won't do as well, simple as that.

>Patriotism is one of the worst qualities you can bring to a logical discussion. Protip: Don't
>Answer: No, they aren't.
nice well cited argument you have there, again it's strange that everyone comes to our universities and not yours.

>You might have the chance to learn something more and network better, not arguing on that.
good.

>Look above for the problem with patriotism
>patriotism is bad
fuck off retard.

[Anonymous No.7924988]

>>7924727
Yes

[Anonymous No.7924992]

>>7924874
>when you're being taught by top researchers they will teach you things that are only found in their upcoming research papers.

[Anonymous No.7924995]

>>7924898
Well of course it's not a guarantee, but by and large it's true.

[Anonymous No.7924997]

>>7924963
Pretty sure German universities have always been free unless you can prove otherwise? The real reason is that Germany doesn't actually do research in university. It does most of it's research in separate specialized research institutes. The Max Planck Institute would destroy most US Ivy Leagues at science research.

[Anonymous No.7925000]

>>7924934
>way less top-tier researchers come from europe
[citation needed]

I'd wager not, neither in relative nor in absolute terms. Feel free to prove me wrong with actual figures.

[Anonymous No.7925001]

>>7925000
Trips for truth.

[Anonymous No.7925006]

>>7924793
>le only democrats care about the poor meme
Little do you know that the left's policies have been keeping the poor impoverished for over 50 years.

[Anonymous No.7925011]

>>7924984
>thanks for proving my point.
Congrats on ignoring everything I said in the paragraph.

>it does actually, if you're not going to push yourself as hard as other people then you probably won't do as well, simple as that.

So wanting to go back to your country and not being as high profile means you can't be as good a lecturer as high profile lecturers? Wew.

>again it's strange that everyone comes to our universities and not yours.

So it's strange that people choose to NOT go in universities in (mostly) poor countries where they will have to assimilate into a new population, culture, learn a new language AND not get as much grant money for any kind of research they want? I think not.

>fuck off retard.
Thanks for proving my patriotism point.

[Anonymous No.7925023]

>>7924997
>Pretty sure German universities have always been free unless you can prove otherwise?
>mfw, germany is so retarded they don't know their own history.

>>7925011
>So wanting to go back to your country and not being as high profile means you can't be as good a lecturer as high profile lecturers? Wew.
you completely ignore the fact that they choose to go to america rather than faggotville germany but okay.

>So it's strange that people choose to NOT go in universities in (mostly) poor countries where they will have to assimilate into a new population, culture, learn a new language AND not get as much grant money for any kind of research they want? I think not.
you're right, it's not strange they would go to the country with better universities.

>Thanks for proving my patriotism point.
merkel has your balls hanging on her wall.

[Anonymous No.7925026]

>>7924750
>go to school for a bs in bio
>end up doing a fuck load of programming and math because I guess the program wanted people in computational bio
>graduate
>panic like a mother fucker
>get hired in like two days as a programmer at bank
>get paid 65 k a year

[Anonymous No.7925033]

>>7925006
Just because the democrats are bad doesn't mean the republicans are any better.

[Anonymous No.7925042]

>>7925023
At least our schools don't get shot up.

[Anonymous No.7925046]

>>7925042
that's the price of having a strong 2nd amendment.

I'll gladly pay it though.

[Anonymous No.7925052]

>mfw this entire thread
>mfw this delusional american insisting that his 'elite' universities keep esoteric science that no other schools have access to
>muh opportunities lmao
what a shit show, I don't know why you're arguing with this retard.

[Anonymous No.7925061]

>>7925046
>My 9mm penis extension is worth the souls of thousands of dead children

[Anonymous No.7925115]

>>7925023
>you completely ignore the fact that they choose to go to america rather than faggotville germany but okay.
They graduate from european unis and go to american university for research where research opportunities are. They choose to go back because they like their country more. Those that choose to stay become high-profile researchers. Simple enough?

>you're right, it's not strange they would go to the country with better universities.
Basically ignored everything I said and missed the whole point of that paragraph.

>merkel has your balls hanging on her wall.
I'm Greek, so ironically that statement is correct. Doesn't mean only americans can like their country.

[Anonymous No.7925156]

Are people really ignoring the fact that this has no source and looks like it literally could have been typed up in Word by OP?

[Anonymous No.7925163]

>>7925156
>Compensaton
kek

[Anonymous No.7925175]

>>7924786

>if you went to school for biology because you had aspirations to be a lab assistant, you done fucked up m8.

Fug, I decided on becoming a lab tech in my last year of uni, and I know the bachelor's is useless for that job. But I could get my masters at any point and become a lab manager instead...

If I don't then it's 40k and 4 years down the drain

[Anonymous No.7925183]

>>7924708
because biology is pleb tier.

look at the req. for a bachelors in science for Biology at my uni: http://www.siue.edu/artsandsciences/biologicalsciences/undergraduate/genetics-cellular-biology/degree-requirements.shtml

can be done in 2 years w/ summer classes.

[Anonymous No.7925184]

>>7925183
>my uni
>U.S.
>pleb-tier

Pretty sure there's a good reason why you think bio is pleb-tier. Maybe you should try doing it in Europe without the pre-meds and in a decent uni.

[Anonymous No.7925185]

>>7924708
>retards not understanding why people go to college in the first place.

Tradesman make more than most engineers when you get down to a per hour basis. if all you wanted was a good job that would give you an upper middle class lifestyle, you'd do some technical job.

but nobody wants to be a plumber because that shits for plebs, regardless of how much money it makes.

people go to college because a higher education is the mark of the upper class.

[Anonymous No.7925190]

>>7925185

>that shits for plebs

it comes down to the faulty of this job is not hard, but nobody wants to do it.

[Anonymous No.7925199]

>>7925185
>people go to college because a higher education is the mark of the upper class.

This is correct for most people that do non-stem degrees, but there are also those who genuinely want to advance human knowledge and invent the future, not just have the mark of the upper class. The irony with those people that have no such aspirations is that the oversaturation of their useless degrees pretty much erases the mark of the upper class that college education is supposed to earn them, and end up becoming lower class than the 'lowly plumbers' because they can't do anything with their degrees.

[Anonymous No.7925202]

>>7924797
So much stupidity.
Not even going to try and argue with backwards logic.

[Anonymous No.7925205]

>>7925185

Trades people get no respect and their jobs can be mastered in the very short time. Their developmental ceiling is small, while the developmental ceiling of a STEM grad is large. An electrical engineer can go much further than an electrician.

What most electricians do (even those with decades of experience) can literally be learned in less than a year.

[Anonymous No.7925207]

>>7925199
>The irony with those people that have no such aspirations is that the oversaturation of their useless degrees pretty much erases the mark of the upper class that college education is supposed to earn them

thats not true, higher education really does expand your mind.

its blatantly obvious when you talk to someone if they have had a formal education or not. even if its in something you consider "easy". some people here might not see it yet because they are still freshman or sophomores.

[Anonymous No.7925211]

>>7924975

>faggots are falling for this bait clearly made by OP on his laptop white he was taking a shit

[Anonymous No.7925212]

>>7925205
my point was that it doesn't matter how much your degree makes, because nobody here is doing it for the money anyways. money is a secondary, even tertiary benefit.

[Anonymous No.7925230]

What do people that go for a biology degree even want to do? I got my BS in microbiology because I wanted to work with microbes in some way.

Biology has a ridiculous amount of branches.

[Anonymous No.7925237]

>>7925230
They don't know yet. Some degrees usually allow for specialisation in the later years. Getting specific degrees in undergrad won't make that much of a difference desu, might get you some better jobs. If you want to go into research, you can specialise with an Msc anyway, and pick your PhD accordingly.

[Anonymous No.7925985]

>>7924859
>if you can't do a course you fail it and if you pass then you deserved to have done it whatever the admissions standards may have said.

Because in the U.S when people fail its for some reason never the fault of the failure, but the fault of the "education system," "teachers," or "society as a whole," and the inevitable result is government mandates and investigations forcing untenable education goals and standards, which in turn causes educators to utilize creative grading measures leading to a race to the bottom, where every dumb fuck with a pulse who shows up to class on time can get an A. And the majority of people still fail.

I don't oppose free college because of taxation. I oppose free college because I've seen how free education is handled in America. It's not pretty.

[Anonymous No.7926019]

Why does no one see this is clearly bait? Fucking..

>black belt preferred

:/

[Anonymous No.7926030]

>>7924942
>Murica is ahead only because they get more grant money
You mean because Murica HAS more money.

[Anonymous No.7926038]

>>7924789
>omg cute animals

Time for dissections, girls :^)

[Anonymous No.7926098]

>>7924793
>If we can just get more short people on the basketball team then they will be taller

egalitarianism was a mistake

[Anonymous No.7926128]

>Want to go into mol bio and chem eng
>Both are saturated, cutthroat, and competitive and you need to be a head above the rest of your cohort
>You are not even an outstanding student in your OK public university, let alone in the global marketplace

Should have never aspired to be anything more than a janitor. ;_;.

[Anonymous No.7926253]

>>7924777
Hope it's a yellow one, the black ones are a real bitch

[Anonymous No.7926262]

>>7926128
jesus fucking christ
what shithole country is that? where are the worker rights?

>california
geez

[Anonymous No.7926265]

>>7926262
>Postgrad work
>Having workers rights
Pick one and only one.

[Anonymous No.7926269]

>>7926265
>there are movements to protect the rights of fatties so men lower their standards but no movements to protect the mental health of graduated students