/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.7901051]

Why do Comp""""""""Sci"""""""""" fags act like their field of study is a science when its basically just psychology for computers? I honestly feel bad for the people wasting their lives with this shit when even a humanity would be a better use of time and at least make them seem less autistc. Any CS majors here who can defend their pathetic degree?

[Anonymous No.7901059]

>being a programmer and enjoying it immensely
>caring about appearing autistic

Not sure how an Art History degree will make anyone appear less autistic than a CS degree anyway. Not like it would add to your conversational skills much.

[Anonymous No.7901092]

>>7901051
We build the computers and programs that make the lives of scientists mathematicians and all other fields of study much easier to cope with and advance. without computer science you would not be here shitposting, and instead, actually doing something productive and meaningful with your life.

[Anonymous No.7901215]

>>7901092
>We build the computers

No, that's EE/CpE

>programs that make the lives of scientists mathematicians and all other fields of study much easier to cope with and advance

No, scientists and mathematicians make their own programs. CS majors wouldn't have a clue.

[Anonymous No.7901305]

>>7901215
elaborate.

[Anonymous No.7901340]

>>7901305
>Have you ever heard of FEM or spectral methods?
>Do you know what Hartree-Fock is?
>Can you even do vector calculus?
>How about pseudoinverses?

Who gives a shit about proper indentation, TDD, and unnecessary class hierarchies when you can't even begin to approach the problem at hand.

It's vastly easier for a STEM major to learn CS (and learn it quickly and thoroughly) than it is for a CS major to figure out STEM material.

[Anonymous No.7901341]

>>7901051
>posted using a computer

[Anonymous No.7901350]

>>7901341
>invented by mathematicians, developed by computer engineers, programmed by software engineers, and assembled by Chinese low wage children

[Anonymous No.7901353]

>>7901215
CS majors make the operating systems, compilers, text editors, and GUIs that make that programming possible.
Not even a CS major, I study MechE, but they do important work, occasionally. Just like Scientists/Mathematicians/Engineers do important work, occasionally.

[Anonymous No.7901361]

>>7901340
Math and CS double major here. I'm currently studying measure theory and category theory for math, but I am absolutely ashamed of my computer science studies. I am mostly unwilling to admit to this second major off of this Hungarian wines county posting rock. Computer science is the easiest shit and should not even be called STEM. Being immersed in both sides of this conflict, I can confirm that CS is a joke. I'm only getting the degree because I hope to land a cushy government job in cyber security or something similar.

[Anonymous No.7901371]

>>7901051

>tfw majoring in Computer Science (although pushing for heavier math emphasis to work on ML) and Psychology to go into Human Computer Interaction

Meh, it's just puzzles that you have to make your own pieces for. I wouldn't overthink it.

>>7901361

Have you done any work with Machine Learning, by chance?

[Anonymous No.7901855]

>>7901371
Yes, I have, and it was better, but it fails to encompass the current state of computer science in academia. I'm at a top ten school, too.

[Anonymous No.7901861]

>>7901051
>conflating "not a science" and "waste of time"

[Anonymous No.7901877]

>>7901353
> operating systems

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#History

Alan Turing was already developing the principles of the operating system with his universal Turing machine way before the CS spergs even existed as a bachelors degree.

>Compilers
The first primitive and basically useless compilers were made by computer scientists back in the day. Certainly an admirable feat but it was none other than Don Knuth, a mathematician no less, that formalized the theory of compiler design and construction and was even paid to make a book out of it as at the time there was no solid backbone for compilers and basically everyone who attempted to do one would create disgusting code that barely resembled what a compiler could be.

>Text editors
One of the most known and widely used text editors today, Emacs, was developed by no other than Richard Stallman, a Physicist.

>GUIs
The first research into GUIs and the first GUI in fact was developed by Ivan Sutherland, an electrical engineer.

So basically, every notable invention you could attribute to CS are actually the achievements of mathematicians, physicists and engineers, actual respectable people.

CS JUST GOT BTFO

[Anonymous No.7901906]

>>7901350
The mathematicians studying computing were *gasp* computer scientists. Studying their work is the (intended) basis of computer science. In reality CS is a programming course and fast track for rich fags to get jobs. Also, SE designs, but CS does the code monkey shit.

[Anonymous No.7901914]

>>7901906
But no one bashes someone doing computer science the right way. By that I mean getting a bachelors degree in an actual science and then specializing in CS by either doing a PhD in the field or just directly going into industry CS.

Computer Science as a field of study is trivial though but at least people with a decent rigorous education can exploit it and create advances for humanity. People who go for a bachelors in CS are braindead cancerous morons.

[Anonymous No.7901933]

>>7901877
neither the turing machine nor the universal turing machine are operating systems

[Anonymous No.7901960]

>>7901933
My phrasing is to blame.

Directly from the article:

>he was already deriving the primitive conception of an operating system from the principles of the Universal Turing machine

[Anonymous No.7901994]

>>7901877

[Anonymous No.7902052]

>>7901994
>Post sources and names with whole wikipedia pages that detail their achievements and their non-CS education
>Carefully argument each point
>Not a single direct insult towards CS, just facts
>Calm writing

XD U BAITIN' LOL LE BUT HERT MAT MAHJONG XDDDD

This is why I don't argue with monkeys.

[Anonymous No.7902081]

>>7902052
When the VR becomes reality, it's the CS majors you'll have to thank.

[Anonymous No.7902107]

>basically just psychology for computers
>humanity would be better use of time

How sad

[Anonymous No.7902115]

>>7902052
>the foundations of the field were laid down by people who didn't major in the field!

no shit?

[Anonymous No.7902119]

>>7902115
I will assure that all of them but Turing lived in a time when CS was already a thing.

[Anonymous No.7902127]

>>7902119
Text editors are not an area of research and vim > emacs

You can't really consider Knuth an outsider of CS, the man researched and published a LOT of CS. Whatever his degree was formally in doesn't matter much.

[Anonymous No.7902128]

>>7901051
lol? what does this even mean? cs has nothing to do with psychology even in an abstract sense. without computer scientists you would have no way to lash out on the internet; you would be forever lamenting in your mothers basement, actually considering the one fundamental truth of your life - that you will never fully live up to your own potential. Instead, however, you have the ability to rant on the internet and feel better about yourself by trying to put down an entire field of personnel.
How's that for psychology?

[Anonymous No.7902133]

>>7901877
Yes. The fundamentals were created through other fields. That has pretty much no modern application today; knowing how to create a compiler from scratch will pretty much never help you, ever. Things that have application, though, require CS knowledge.

[Anonymous No.7902142]

>>7902127
>Text editors are not an area of research and vim > emacs

Well, he mentioned text editors. The point is that anyone can do text editors and one of the famous ones among developers was made by a physicist.

Also Knuth has his PhD in pure mathematics. CS is a subset of mathematics so even though he worked in CS he always did so from the perspective of a mathematician, and that is why he found success.

[Anonymous No.7902143]

>>7902133
>knowing compiler theory is useless because I can't code monkey with it
shut up code monkey

[Anonymous No.7902147]

>>7902133
I will assure you that the programmers that make the most money are the ones working in core software like compilers because most of the time those people are irreplaceable.

[Anonymous No.7902172]

>>7901215
>No, that's EE/CpE
That's not really true though. I study CS and we had computer architecture and digital electronics courses.
There are people with CS degrees in my department researching/developing processors.
There's also tons of other interesting research in my CS department, like robotics, machine learning, AR/VR.

>Who gives a shit about proper indentation, TDD, and unnecessary class hierarchies when you can't even begin to approach the problem at hand.
This is more SE than CS. Also, yes we do vector calculus. and why the fuck do you even mention pseudoinverses like that's something complicated?

>It's vastly easier for a STEM major to learn CS (and learn it quickly and thoroughly) than it is for a CS major to figure out STEM material.
kek, no it's not. I've had projects together with math majors and I ended up redoing their work, because they couldn't program shit, literally introducing new bugs every few lines.
Meanwhile I take their graduate courses for fun and I know other CS students who study category theory and related stuff on their own, so I'm not the only one.

[Anonymous No.7902453]

do you guys even know about the average cs curriculum? Jesus christ stop embarassing yourselves.

[Anonymous No.7902488]

>>7902172
>>kek, no it's not. I've had projects together with math majors and I ended up redoing their work, because they couldn't program shit, literally introducing new bugs every few lines.

>just look at these people who haven't practiced programming for more than 2 hours struggle!
>programming must be the greatest intellectual endeavor known to man

[Anonymous No.7902507]

CS and Applied Math bachelor here. CS is not exactly Math, despite being exactly math. Some stuff is just too complex to prove. However there is tons of provable math in CS. Complexity theory is the most obvious, you know, big O notation is pure math. Proving various NP complete algorithms are equivalent is pure math as well. Really hard problems like bin packing are heuristics, I don't like their lack of purity but they get the job done.

Besides that CS is phenomenally useful, and has had a larger impact on our daily lives than any other science in the last 20 years.

Finally it pays pretty gud.

[Anonymous No.7902527]

>>7902453
>do you guys even know about the average cs curriculum

Yeah, it's a joke

>1st year
Bullshit java/OO coding class
Bullshit data structures class
Piss easy calculus classes
Piss easy matrix algebra class
[If you're luck] physics I&II for non-science majors

>2nd year
Watered down "computer architecture" class
Pompous software engineering class
Pathetic discrete "math" class
Watered down "probability" class
Crash course on formal languages and automata

>3rd year
Pathetic algorithms course
Watered down computability and complexity theory course
Laughable networks course
Laughable database course
Crash course on various programing languages

>4th year
Laughable computer security course
[If you're lucky] an Operating Systems class
[If you're lucky] a Compilers class
Horseshit AI with trivial machine learning
5-10 student team Capstone with one dude doing all the work
and all the bullshit easy electives you want

[Anonymous No.7902528]

>>7901855

Keeping in mind the whole "those who can, do and those who can't, teach" thing and the pretty recently rekindled interest in NNs idk if that's exactly unexpected. The things that creative applications of computer science are unlocking right now, in conjunction with more capable hardware are pretty fucking amazing though. Only idiots would forget that all computer science is an abstracted form of boolean logic implemented with circuits though. Of fucking course people with already strong math backgrounds are predisposed to get it.

However, a lot of this thread comes off as a flood of insecure STEM lords venting about how CS isn't a "science" for pretty arbitrary reasons, it's very much an abstracted branch of mathematics (which fittingly becomes more difficult the more you break down the abstraction as you approach the circuit level). It's about as much a "science" as math is, and rolling pure math is undeniably far more difficult.

Did some of your friends brag too much about what they made during their summer internships?

(Also, what were you using ML for? Just wondering)

[Anonymous No.7902553]

>>7902507
>CS and Applied Math bachelor here

Fuck man two meme degrees? Not only that but the exact 2 degrees that people who like math but are too stupid to take on pure math do.

Fuck man you must have a lot of redditgold. You are the living embodiment of academia memes. How many tumblr followers you have? Probably like 2 million or some shit.

Here we have found the greatest academia memer to have ever existed.

[Anonymous No.7902557]

>>7902527
Where did you go to school?
> Be U C Berkeley grad.
Compilers (write an object oriented one w/ classes): yes
Operating systems: yes
CPU design: yes, with pipelining and two cache models not direct (set associative and fully associative)
Digital Logic kind of forget the name: build programmable remote control using 74XX chips, ours was 5 large protoboards across.
Complexity and Analysis: NP complete, Finite state automata, push down automata, and turing machines. Context free grammars.
And more.
Electives were math classes (double major) and splines in computer graphics (including 3d patches)
I graduated in 1996.

[Anonymous No.7902562]

>>7902553
Lol, have you ever experienced the concept of "pretentiousness" before?

[Anonymous No.7902565]

>>7902553
Holy shit none of that. I'm 45 years old, trying to get my kids into learning.

I looked into pure math and recoiled in fear. Not only was this stuff devoid of numbers, it was devoid of women and devoid of USE. Like I up and asked what use the math in the papers I typed up for visiting mathematicians was for. The answer was NOTHING! Case in point: the math for Special Relativity had been already SOLVED by the time Einstein got around to APPLYING it.

PURE MATH? Not even once.

[Anonymous No.7902566]

>>7902562
I am not pretentious. I am simply a better person because I am majoring in pure mathematics.

[Anonymous No.7902570]

>tfw switched from cs to physics

[Anonymous No.7902573]

>>7901353
>CS majors make the operating systems, compilers

No, computer engineers make those.

>text editors

That's one of the most trivial programs you can make.

>and GUIs

Many people that make interfaces and GUIs can't even pass fizzbuzz questions: https://css-tricks.com/tales-of-a-non-unicorn-a-story-about-the-trouble-with-job-titles-and-descriptions/

[Anonymous No.7902576]

>>7901877
basically all engineering fundamentals come from physicists and mathematicians. you don't find mechanical/electrical/civil or any other kind of engineers obsolete do you?

[Anonymous No.7902578]

>>7902566
Yeah, well I feel sorry for you. So sorry for you I will ask what you will be asked less than 50 times in your life. What branch of pure math are you studying? Please don't say topology, it has the most fags.

[Anonymous No.7902581]

>>7902566

lol

[Anonymous No.7902587]

>>7902565
It's always weird when you know you are talking with someone decades older than you but such is 4chan.

By the way mister if you don't watch anime 24/7 then 4chan is not the place for you.

Anyways...
> Not only was this stuff devoid of numbers

In what sense? High school algebra is also devoid of numbers.

> it was devoid of women
Maybe back in WWII but 50% of my class are women.

>devoid of USE
This I really don't understand. Are you sure you are talking about undergrad pure math? The purest things I find in my degree are general topology and complex analysis. I have researched into those things and they have immediate applications in simulation and electronics.

Pure math is simply undergrad tier math but the way mathematicians do it.

Plus there are always applied electives. For example I am taking Programming I and II (for mathematicians) and will then take simulations.

Pure math is the strongest backbone of education you can have. From that you can learn anything and become better than anyone else at it because you simply know the core better.

[Anonymous No.7902589]

>/sci/ being buttmad about cs again because they can't compete

[Anonymous No.7902598]

>>7902576
To make it clear, the only people in STEM I look down upon are CS majors. I respect engineers and most of my friends are engineers. The only difference between them and me is that they wanted to take the applied approach to math.

Nothing wrong with that, really. The problem with CS is that it is the retard approach to math. Nothing to respect there.

>>7902578
As I said I am undergrad pure math. Nothing special there. I don't even one to go to grad school in pure math or to grad school at all.

As I said, take that simulation class, fill up my CV with a couple more programming internships and then cuck some CS majors out of major 6 figure jobs.

Living the dream.

[Anonymous No.7902599]

>>7902589
>CS freshman detected

[Anonymous No.7902621]

>>7902598
Do lots of machine learning, we need more deep math people to sacrifice to the machines...

[Anonymous No.7902637]

>>7902598
How are you going to get those CS internships when they can hire CS majors?
How are you going to get those CS jobs when they can simply hire CS majors?

[Anonymous No.7902643]

>>7901361
>but I am absolutely ashamed of my computer science studies

I am the same way. I also picked up a CS major when I was in college and I'm usually too ashamed to tell people that I have it.

[Anonymous No.7902648]

>>7902637

The implication is he's saying his grasp of certain areas of mathematics gives him an edge, and that definitely would be true in very math intense areas like Machine Learning or Encryption (depending on what areas of pure math he focused on and how much experience he could get in programming for them)

[Anonymous No.7902650]

>>7902637

Why the fuck would they hire a CS major when they can hire a retard who's better than most CS majors instead?

[Anonymous No.7902661]

>>7902587
oldfag replying. Undergrad "pure math" is not pure math, son. You have no idea. Seriously.

Pure math to me is Lie groups. Pure math to me is simplectomorphisms. Pure math to me is new stuff that needs new symbols because we ran out of greek. It has no application, it is simply the study of patterns and symmetry.

You are simply taking math classes. Complex analysis is not "pure math", it's just a good foundation for many areas, including physics.

Pure math is graduate level and up. Thinking CS is some pushover discipline is nonsense. How would you do collision detection in a video game? A 3D one? Modern games use something called the GJK algorithm that creates a simplex using a Minkowski sum. You might be able to understand the math but there is no way on God's earth you could program it.

[Anonymous No.7902687]

So I was going to pretentiously respond to this thread with Dennis Ritchie and Richard Stallman as great computer scientists.

They both had physics degrees from Harvard and did Unix and GNU development later on.

[Anonymous No.7902693]

>>7902637
I've been working this entire summer for a small finance software company. It wasn't that hard to get the position at all. What they do is literally have a huge as fuck server room with a database to keep all of their users records and a client application where the users can input the data and perform the trivial calculations of finance.

I showed them a social network-like mobile app I did back in high school that has a PHP powered server and MySQL powered database and that was all. That was proof that I was as good as any CS major who did 'Databases I' or whatever. Probably even better because mine is actually running online and not a weird spaghetti code semester long project made by morons who just learned what SQL commands are.

>>7902661
>Undergrad "pure math" is not pure math, son

I said this too, don't think I am ignorant. However, pure math > applied math as an undergrad degree by all measures.

> How would you do collision detection in a video game?

You have to rectangles and you check every cycle if one rectangle is trespassing another. When you need more complex objects like in a fighting game you add a bunch of small rectangles and detect collisions in all of them for precision.

>A 3D one?

You got me there. My interest in games was never enough to push me towards 3D development. Still, checking if rectangles are touching should be no different than checking if cubes are touching.

[Anonymous No.7902703]

>>7902661
>Pure math to me is Lie groups.

Every undergrad pure math majors learns a bit about Lie groups when they take 1st semester abstract algebra. You're out of touch.

>Thinking CS is some pushover discipline is nonsense

[math] \bf{ UNDERGRAD } [/math] CS [math] is [/math] a pushover major. Each of their 4 credit courses corresponds to 1 credit of undergrad STEM coursework. There is advanced stuff in CS, but most CS majors go nowhere near it even at good schools.

[Anonymous No.7902728]

>>7902693
> collision detection.
Rectangles? Nope. Like I said, Minkowski sums. It works with any convex hull. Many shapes have a closed form, not only spheres, but a sphere translated along a line, these are called "Capsules" in Unity and if you understood GJK you would know why. You CANNOT just use vertex inside a rectangle. GJK handles edge/edge collision just as well.

But you are smart. If anything I learned that from this thread. Think about edge/edge intersection in 3D with just non axis-aligned cubes. How would you detect it? Also fast because mechanics ("physics" in game industry lingo).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert%E2%80%93Johnson%E2%80%93Keerthi_distance_algorithm

[Anonymous No.7902744]

>>7902528
I know computer science itself is legitimate, but you have to recognize that computer science at universities has deviated from the really meaningful parts of the subject. What's the point of learning how to implement a tree in fucking Python when data structures are supposed to be abstractions? All of the CS at my uni is based on implementation within a certain language.

Machine learning was part of the artificial intelligence topic course I took as part of my required electives.

[Anonymous No.7902753]

>>7902565
Kek, I got to learn the currency fraud detection methods used by Germany in my undergrad course on abstract algebra. P cool, senpai.

[Anonymous No.7902765]

>>7902598
If you're an undergraduate math major and you're not doing research, then I'm going to cuck you out of your job. Sorry m8. Thanks for trying. Real pure math majors are in graduate level classes by the end of their first year.

[Anonymous No.7902768]

>>7902728
Back in the day I got my training in collision detection from an online SDL tutorial on a website called lazyfoo. It was as I said, just checking intersections in rectangles and the more rectangles and the smaller rectangles you add the more precision you will have.

I will admit that I probably wouldn't be able to come up with something like that algorithm and I just spent all this time reading this pseudocode and once again I must admit that I don't think I completely understand what is going on, but I get the general idea.

Truly amazing stuff but I never looked down upon CS as a field. Technically it is what I "do".
The people we shame are the 18 year old clueless gamers that join CS whent hey failed high school calculus.

>>7902765
This is literal bait. It is impossible to be a normal kid that after just 1 year is ready to take on any graduate level courses. And if you are a genius kid then you graduated undergrad when you where 8 anyways.

[Anonymous No.7902799]

>>7902488
they've actually taken the same programming courses as me though.
I'm not saying that programming is intellectual at all, just that it seems other majors (maths, physics) are much worse at it than people here think.
Which would lead me to the conclusion that they are wrong when they assume they could learn CS in a minute if they wanted.

[Anonymous No.7902804]

>>7902557
>I graduated in 1996.

In the last 2 decades, many CS programs that used to require OS and compilers and dropped the requirements. Theory of computation classes have been stripped and merged in with algorithms, and architecture classes has been merged with digital logic and an intro into C classes, and they all barely cover anything now.

The state of modern CS is absolutely disgusting.

[Anonymous No.7902808]

>>7902804
My school's CS program just dropped Computer Architecture from the requirements for incoming undergrads.

There's probably some correlation for popularity of a major vs. how easy that major becomes at non-Ivies.

[Anonymous No.7902810]

>>7902799
>just that it seems other majors (maths, physics) are much worse at it than people here think

Because they never practice it. Geology and Biology majors are bad at calculus because they rarely use it even though they take the same easy calculus classes. All you need to do to get good at coding is to code a lot. You don't need college classes, you need projects you care about.

>Which would lead me to the conclusion that they are wrong when they assume they could learn CS in a minute if they wanted

No, the cause is that most STEM majors don't bother trying to get good at coding and put it off.

[Anonymous No.7902817]

> oldfag
>>7902768
>The people we shame are the 18 year old clueless gamers that join CS whent hey failed high school calculus.
Sad.
>>7902804
> The state of modern CS is absolutely disgusting.
Very sad.
I wrote a ray tracer the moment I graduated, wrote a Virtual Reality engine before 3D video cards were available. I really thought by now much more of the world would be using 3D, and it's only in games. I truly envisioned architecture as an immersive 3D experience, and we're still not there.

Also don't bother trying to define 4chan. I'm only here because other genius types go slumming also.

[Anonymous No.7902826]

>>7902768
Not bait, friend.
I took precalculus my freshman year of high school, calc AB sophomore year, Calc BC junior year, proof writing and Calc 3 concurrently in the fall semester my senior, Differential Equations, Analysis, Linear Albegra and Abstract Algebra the spring semester of my senior year. Then a fuckton of math at ybi, but it's sufficient to note I took introductory topology in the fall and then a graduate topology course in the spring. Sorry m8

[Anonymous No.7902828]

>>7902810
All you need to do math is read some books and practice a lot. You don't need college classes for that either. Getting good at math is not harder than getting good at any other subject, be it physics, CS or biology.
Somehow there is just this meme that getting good at subjects like CS and biology is really easy for other STEM majors, which is wrong.

[Anonymous No.7902835]

>>7902826
Then your 'first' year is not a freshman year. Did you succeed at becoming the boipussy of a pedophile PhD like our little friend barnett?

[Anonymous No.7902842]

>>7902828

Getting good at CS is really easy. Sorry if this hurts your pride but that's the truth.

[Anonymous No.7902845]

>>7902835
No true friends, just masturbating to myself on 4chan. Still working on my MS at the moment. I like it. It's comfy

[Anonymous No.7902855]

>>7901051

>act like their field of study is a science when its basically just psychology for computers
>study is a science when its basically just psychology for computers
>basically just psychology for computers
>psychology for computers

If psychology for computers isn't a science then what the hell is it?
Ironic that OP is shit posting calling CS a non-science degree from the comfort of his home, on a computer, on a science forum, arguing with people from around the globe with lightspeed internet connection... But no, its not a science.. How could anyone possibly think that...

[Anonymous No.7902856]

>>7902842
getting good at everything is easy if you invest some time

[Anonymous No.7902860]

>>7902856
CS is easier than most subjects. Many 13 year kids teach themselves undergrad CS. Far fewer teach themselves undergrad math or physics (but it does happen).

[Anonymous No.7902863]

defend yourself being unemployed NEET fuck

[Anonymous No.7902866]

>>7902860
Because more kids are interested in CS than in math or physics.
Also I doubt that they teach themselves much more than programming.
My CS undergrad had courses like control theory, robotics and analog neuromorphic behaving circuits, I'm not sure these kids learned about stuff like that too.

[Anonymous No.7902871]

>>7902855
Hold up right there J. R. R. Tolkien, I know you feel very good about your creative response of 'xD we muk camputors!' but please scroll up and you will see how over 50 of your fellow hive-minded CS majors literally used the same argument and too see over 50 people give them savage comebacks such as >>7901877

Don't worry, I am sure that it is you CS majors that make computers and the internet possible, not electrical and computer engineers. We all believe you. Don't we all? Now you can go back to sleep.

[Anonymous No.7902874]

>>7902866
>My CS undergrad had courses like control theory, robotics

That's ECE stuff. It's rare to see it done in CS.

[Anonymous No.7902989]

>>7902810
>All you need to do to get good at math is to study math a lot. You don't need college classes, you need projects you care about.

How are you people so retarded?

You know, you aren't going to be mathnfor the rest of your life. You will forget it.

[Anonymous No.7903018]

The most pitiful part of these threads is that it is so glaring obvious that math is ALL these people have in their lives.

They defend and deflect with such a vigor and passion that you just know they at their very core have no self esteem beyond their math degrees.

Yet, as the years go by into their 20s and 30s chances are they will not contribute anything to the field. And they KNOW this.. They are math experts after all.

I honestly think we should just stop responding to these threads considering how transparent and pathetic of a nature they are.

They know they will eventually get into a computer related job. It's where all jobs are heading. And they will forget their precious Mathematics as the memory of identities and techniques fade.

They are like the guy or girl that peaked in HS, except the peak of their life was getting a fucking FOUR year degree.

These threads are merely the flameout of their souls.

RIP

[Anonymous No.7903024]

>>7902573
Havent greentexted in a while soo...
>be me
>see CSfag with fancy as fuck text editor + weird ide shit
>I'm not in CS and even I know that fucking notepad + gcc *.c -o filename is far faster and more efficient

Text editors are fucking trivial I agree. If you need fancy shit like code highlighting, remember that Ctrl+F, tab, and spacebar exist.

[Anonymous No.7903026]

>>7903024

>gcc windows.c -o windows.exe

Lol amiright?

[Anonymous No.7903027]

>>7901877
Well...CS is literally the work of mathematicians dumbed down to a point where spergs can understand it. I'm surprised people credit CS for many advances in computation when IRL it was primarily mathematicians and engineers. Don't get me wrong though, I don't think CS is useless. It has its applications just like any other degree has. (Note: liberal arts degrees are not actual degrees, anyone can plagarise shit, pander to the professor's views for extra credit, and/or memorise a history textbook to pass a final)

[Anonymous No.7903031]

>>7903018

That sounds about right actually. Peak 4 years after the highschool jock and then mad the rest of their life that they weren't the next einstein.

[Anonymous No.7903034]

>>7903026
If you need an IDE for babyshit, you are wasting your HDD space. Literally all you need on windows is notepad and mingw or textedit + gcc on mac or whateverthefuckthedefaulttexteditorisforyourguienvrionmentinlinux and gcc

[Anonymous No.7903035]

>>7903018
5 star post

later faggot OP

[Anonymous No.7903041]

>>7903018
code monkey retard detected

[Anonymous No.7903042]

>>7903024
>notepad is more efficient than vim
this is bait, right?

[Anonymous No.7903044]

>>7903042
It was good enough to get you to reply. :^)

[Anonymous No.7903045]

>>7903044
oh no, 30 seconds of my life wasted in exchange for laughter and a sense of superiority

you sure troll'd me good

[Anonymous No.7903058]

>>7903024
Well I am a computer engineer/science.
The only viable text editors that a programmer should use is vim or emacs. (I use both, depending what plugins are best suited).

However using shit like sublime, or modified gedit is just... pathetic.

Heard of VIMLatex? It's a wonderful plugin for writing LaTex documents, very fast compiling and you can use all different editing plugins VIM offers.

IF you have ever used an IDE with many features such as perhaps IntelliJ idea (because all faggot engineers have to learn java for some reason) you can implement almost all of it nice features into vim such as auto refactoring, auto-delegation and auto-completion.(you can do this in emacs aswell).

It is a lot faster and more efficient using full version emacs/vim with all the necessary plugins. Ofcourse, if you are gonna write some kind of a sorting algorithm or a simple fractal program, you can just do it in notepad. It's not that many lines of code anyway.

I recomend Spacemacs with vim binding.
And if you wanna go vim
checkout this config
https://github.com/amix/vimrc


Regarding me defending my field(computer science/engineering), why should I? You will come to us when your shitty code for your machine learning or AI starts to crash. In addition, I have never looked down on any STEM field and desu I respect all of those who has more physics than us, especially EE.

[Anonymous No.7903062]

>>7903058
Is learning emacs worth learning if I'm already pretty quick with vim?

[Anonymous No.7903063]

>>7901051
>>Any CS majors here who can defend their pathetic degree?

Yes. Im employed

[Anonymous No.7903068]

>>7903062
:%s/learning//gc

[Anonymous No.7903071]

>>7903062
Not really desu but if you wanna you can turn emacs into vim
it's just that running the spacemacs client can take some time while vim is just more smooth and faster. If you hate the squid hotkey of emacs you can just change it into vim bindings and bam you have a vim ripoff client but on a text editor that has been out for 40 years.

[Anonymous No.7903083]

>>7901877

First CS program in the US was in 1962.

Really though, you math idiots see the pattern don't you?

All the historical progress in early CS was by people from other fields..

Mathematician becomes Computer Scientist

Physicist becomes Computer Scientist

Engineer becomes Computer Scientist.

Math major gets job as a code monkey and shits his math degree out of his head.

Why? Everybody likes Computer Science because it is fun and interesting, that's why. None of the pioneers of CS wanted to work in their own fields because it is fucking soul sucking minutia. So they fucking created a new one! That is literally how much they hated their own fields!

Math is a boring autismals game.

Engineering is only interesting for airplanes, boats, cars, bridges, and computers.

Physics is just mental game of diarrhea. Muh string theory.

[Anonymous No.7903088]

>>7903071

Tbh you guys are talking about shit with no source control. When you work on professional software with upwards of 100 developers then you need a real ide...

[Anonymous No.7903098]

>>7903058
Which is it computer engineering or science? CompE is basically a subset of EE, EE's eventually choose specialization and can go CompE path (almost)

[Anonymous No.7903103]

>>7903083
The problem with your logic is that all of these mathematicians, physicists and engineers also did major work and publications on their own fields. Their short walk in the park of CS seems was completely out of a creativity. They saw something they could easily accomplish and would give them recognition so they did it while the CS majors just keep eating bananas.

Like that all of the major milestones in computer science, to this day, belong to non computer scientists. You know why this is? Because you are taught to follow, not to lead.

Still, CS is an interesting field and well worth pursuing at the theoretical/graduate level, when it is actually a formal subset of applied mathematics. There is truly awesome stuff and mathematicians like Djikstra have shown just that. The problem is that everyone who studies it at an undergraduate level are too stupid to make anything new so for every major push in technology we have to wait for an outsider to look in and think 'how can I take all of the glory with as little effort as possible'.

[Anonymous No.7903120]

>>7903024
>gcc *.c

Except it's not faster. You should be making a makefile so you don't need to recompile every fucking file when you change a single file.

[Anonymous No.7903127]

>>7903083
>this is what CShitters actually tell themselves to make themselves feel better about their trashcan of a major

[Anonymous No.7903129]

>>7901051
>ITT math majors sperg out because they are all lonely autists.

Not even CS I'm Chem but holy fuck you guys are pathetic. There's one of these threads ever other day

Find something better to do.

[Anonymous No.7903142]

>>7903129
When you see a guy who trash talked a lot about how he is so great and then 5 years later you see the same guy as a hobo who got fat and is still a virgin you cannot stop yourself from laughing at his face every single day.

That guy is literally CS. The 'cool xD so edgy and videogaymes LOL' major that now is the laughing stock of academia.

[Anonymous No.7903153]

>>7903098
I see my degree as a subset of EE so I guess it is compE, it's just that we have strange mix of hardware and software development.

Either way, these are the masters we can apply for:

Systems, Control and Mechatronics:
Computer Science – algorithms, languages and logic:
Computer Systems and Networks:
Software Engineering :
Interaction Design and Technologies:
Embedded Electronic System Design:

[Anonymous No.7903162]

>>7902874
Even so, formal study of algorithms, complexity theory, etc isn't generally someone learns when teaching themselves how to program. There's more to a CS degree than JUST learning the languages.

[Anonymous No.7903163]

>>7903088
Never said you don't need an IDE though. I just use IDE when my boss tells me to.

[Anonymous No.7903171]

>>7903142
Not the guy you responded to, nor am I a CS major, just interjecting here:

>That guy is literally CS. The 'cool xD so edgy and videogaymes LOL' major that now is the laughing stock of academia.

You do realise that people on 4chan do not represent the usual stereotypes in the field they're majoring in right? All I'm saying is you're describing the common CS major, not the typical 4chan /sci/ CS poster, so why do you shit on the posters here? Chances are, they're not going to wind up as the guy you sarcastically described because they're (usually) the exceptions. Just my 2c.

[Anonymous No.7903178]

>>7903024
I've never compiled anything without an IDE, how does GCC know where the source file is located? Wouldn't you need to enter the whole directory address?

[Anonymous No.7903194]

>>7903171
Fair enough but here's the thing, if you want to succeed in th world of computation you have 4 valid choices: mathematics, electrical engineering, computer engineering and physics.

Maybe not every /sci/ CS major is a complete moron, but they are still partially moronic for choosing the worse major for what they supposedly enjoy.

[Anonymous No.7903197]

>>7903162
>formal study of algorithms

Big O is easy as fuck, the master theorem is simple, NP reductions are straightforward, and all the algorithms are natural solutions. There really isn't anything difficult at all in undergrad algorithms.

>complexity theory

There's absolutely nothing in Sipser that a middle school kid couldn't learn about with ease. If you can follow an inductive argument, you can follow any proof in Sipser.

>isn't generally someone learns when teaching themselves how to program.

No but it is when someone sets out to teach themselves CS. All any college grad needs is a year and they can complete MIT's whole CS curriculum by themselves:
http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/mit-challenge/

[Anonymous No.7903206]

>>7903058
>The only viable text editors that a programmer should use is vim or emacs

The 70s called, they want their text editor back. The only reason why anyone codes in them is autism, complete unadulterated autism.

[Anonymous No.7903208]

>>7903103
>The problem with your logic is that all of these mathematicians, physicists and engineers also did major work and publications on their own fields. Their short walk in the park of CS seems was completely out of a creativity. They saw something they could easily accomplish and would give them recognition so they did it while the CS majors just keep eating bananas.

Haha. No. Guys like Turing, Knuth, Dijkstra, Berbers Lee, etc.. Devoted the majority of their careers to CS.

These people didn't refer to themselves as mathematician s and neither does history.

And it's because math is gay, boring and for social outcasts. They couldn't stand being mathematicians.

[Anonymous No.7903224]

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/programmers-should-not-call-themselves-engineers/414271/

[Anonymous No.7903231]

I'll admit, it feels slightly unfair how the current business climate favors programmers (CS majors).

It doesn't make sense to me how someone with a biochemistry degree doing cancer research can only make half of someone programming a game on mobile phone. Really shows where our priorities lie as a civilization. Quite sad really.

[Anonymous No.7903237]

Math is really a specialty.

Mathematicians themselves, except every hundred years or so, serve no purpose whatsoever.

You do nothing for the economy because pure math jobs are virtually non existent. You do nothing for society or entertainment.

We have computers for all that.

So maybe ONE out of the millions of you with a degree will do something worthwhile.

The rest of you are literally useless.

[Anonymous No.7903242]

>>7901051
COMPUTERS ARE A FAD

[Anonymous No.7903250]

>>7903224
While I agree with this, the term engineer is by no means only cheapened by programmers in the tech industry. It was an over-applied title before the rise of silicon valley. People who record musical artists have the audacity to all themselves "audio engineers" and have done so since the 60s-70s at least.

[Anonymous No.7903266]

>>7903231
SUPPLY AND DEMAND FAGGOT

[Anonymous No.7903598]

>op trying to validate his choice of art history as a major by bashing (pardon my pun) cs
>will die of throat cancer at 42 due to having to suck dicks for a living

[Anonymous No.7903600]

Industrial Electrician and self-proclaimed Physicist here.

Fuck you CS faggots. Get out of my science board REEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

[Anonymous No.7903619]

>>7903083
>Math is a boring autismals game.
>Engineering is only interesting for airplanes, boats, cars, bridges, and computers.
>Physics is just mental game of diarrhea. Muh string theory.
>>7903237
>Mathematicians themselves, except every hundred years or so, serve no purpose whatsoever.

Holy shit, CS majors just beat feminists for being out of touch with reality. /sci/ was right all along

[Anonymous No.7903645]

>>7903619

Hes not exactly wrong. Most math majors contribute as much to math as CS majors contribute to CS.

This.can be said for lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. Only a rare few actually do anything important.

For some reason though, people that study math think they are profound individuals when they are really just a average.

[Anonymous No.7903652]

Any mathematical career that doesnt require a MS or higer is generally available to physics, cs, eng, and other stem fields.

[Anonymous No.7903655]

Mathfags look down on people that dont like math because thats the only thing that they can look down on upon anyone.

[Anonymous No.7903660]

>>7903083

[Anonymous No.7903675]

Math is only useful if you apply it. Nobody's gonna pay you to solve differential equations for the sole purpose of solving differential equations. All that math has to be applied to a certain field in order for it to have any value what so ever. Cs is an example of an application of math.

[Anonymous No.7903711]

>>7902643
I don't think CS is necessarily bad, but it's much less about learning STEM material than it is learning a language. With other STEMs its about applying understood concepts into a analytical framework to explore a hypothesis or get some sort of results in a given field. In CS its about translating mental actions from your given language into whatever program you are using.

[Anonymous No.7903756]

>it's a "/sci/ doesn't understand the difference between a formal science and a natural science" thread

[Anonymous No.7903769]

Just think, one day there will be AI psychologists.

[Anonymous No.7903993]

>>7902052
>"sources"
>implying one Wikipedia article counts as multiple sources
>carefully argues each point
>calm writing
kek

[Anonymous No.7904107]

>>7903769

That's why I'm rolling computer science and psychology, lel. (Although honestly there's a fuck load to do to improve the usability of Computers for the layperson, as well as building better social networks and reducing how much people not freak out when their jobs become automated)

I still have a huge amount of for the people who went with pure mathematics and physics though. The former are especially crucial to improving Machine Learning techniques which underpin a lot of what we call "Artificial Intelligence."

[Anonymous No.7904112]

That's why I'm rolling computer science and psychology, lel. (Although honestly there's a fuck load to do to improve the usability of Computers for the layperson, as well as building better social networks and reducing how much people freak out when their jobs get automated)

I still have a huge amount of for the people who went with pure mathematics and physics though. The former are especially crucial to improving Machine Learning techniques which underpin a lot of what we call "Artificial Intelligence."

[Anonymous No.7904126]

That's why I'm rolling computer science and psychology, lel. (Although honestly there's a fuck load to do to improve the usability of Computers for the layperson, as well as building better social networks and reducing how much people freak out when their jobs get automated)

I still have a huge amount of respect for the people who went with pure mathematics and physics though. The former are especially crucial to improving Machine Learning techniques which underpin a lot of what we call "Artificial Intelligence."