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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7886215 No.7886215 [Reply] [Original]

In case you don't think that the Fermi paradox is BS.

>> No.7886291

There are much older solar systems in the galaxy than us. Statistically, there should be life that started several billion years before earth could have. The extent of alien broadcasts can be way bigger.

>> No.7886412

>>7886215
Yeah but we only scanned a tiny part of the universe and SETI can not detect low amplitude radio waves. iirc , If seti was looking at earth it would only be able to detect radio signals only upto .3 light ears away. So our search space is really tiny too.

>> No.7886436

>>7886291
>statistically there should be

M8 I don't think you understand statistics. "There's allot of planets" does not equal "life on one of them must have started 7 billion years before us"

There being allot of planets just means there's allot of planets.

>> No.7886634

>>7886291
>The extent of alien broadcasts can be way bigger.
... but "way bigger" compared to galactic dimensions can still be small.

>> No.7886640

>>7886436
>when this anon actually gets it

>> No.7886667

>>7886436
> must have started 7 billion years before us

Galaxy's only 1 million light years wide, so there's that

>> No.7886686

>>7886291
>haven't quite figured out how life started on our own planet
>really no idea how many planets with similar conditions exist, although evidence is beginning to mount that there are probably plenty - yet not a single one has been observed or confirmed due to current technological limitations
>even if we figured out the chances of life starting and how many earth-like planets there are, we have no meaningful model of the chance that, if life starts, it will lead to intelligent life forms, capable or sending or receiving radio broadcasts, etc.

>thinks we have meaningful statistical models for the probability of intelligent life existing elsewhere

anybody who tells you that we know what the chance is, whether they say high or low, is a pseudoscience whackjob.

honestly the chance is 50%* - either there is or there isn't. two options and it's only one of them.
>*error of +/- 50%

>> No.7886691

>>7886686
Only according to Bayesian inference, but I'm assuming that the Fermi paradox takes a frequentist approach and thus arrives at its paradox.

>> No.7886705

Even if you assume life is plentiful and a significant percentage of life-bearing planets go undisrupted long enough to evolve a high degree of complexity, intelligence is only one of many different kinds of complexity, and technological mastery is only one of many different kinds of intelligence. The type of development we equate with "highly evolved lifeforms" may only be adaptive in a very narrow range of circumstances, if and when they are even possible. Consider dolphins; they're pretty smart, but even if they were much smarter, smarter than us, and even if they had prehensile limbs, they're never going to build a radio telescope, because they live in water, which makes almost all the technological tools we used to get where we are unworkable for them. Now consider how many habitable zone planets are waterworlds. Now replace water with any number of environmental or other factors that make the sort of technology necessary for intergalactic communication either unworkable or unrewarding.

>> No.7886742

>>7886667
>galaxy
>1 million light years
anon please, when you don't know shit about statistics, at least get the astronomical facts right

>> No.7886799

>>7886291
>way bigger.
And exponentionally weaker

>> No.7886814

>>7886291
>The extent of alien broadcasts can be way bigger.

Inverse square law pretty much degrades all radiowaves to wear the background ones is indistinguishable from alien source ones

>> No.7887094

>>7886436
The thought is that the number of possible planets is so vast as to almost guarantee it. Even in our galaxy. Just explaining the paradox m8.

>> No.7887121
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7887121

>>7886215

>People legitimately believing any advanced civilization having the technology capable of broadcasting over the vast distance with enough power to reach us would somehow be decipherable, or even noticeable with our current technology.
>mfw

>> No.7887127

>radio waves

as i understand it the only reason radio waves are being searched for by seti is that we already have radio telescopes

i listened to an interview with seth shostak recently and even he admits that it would be unreasonable to assume that aliens would use radio, it's just that it's so easy to look for that we may as well do it

>> No.7887130

>>7886215
Reminder that electromagnetic waves intensity decreases with the square of the distance.
By the time our radio signals reach an alien civilization, it will be indiscernible from background noise.

>> No.7887131

>>7886799
>exponentially
Uhh

>> No.7887135

We can barely get a fix on New Horizon with the biggests radio dishes out there. I think we get something like 8 bytes per second data rate.
Communication with Voyager probes are basically ping commands.
If Earth II was located in the Alpha Centaury System, we wouldn't see anything.

>> No.7887156

>>7887094
Proofs?

>> No.7887181

>>7887094
>The thought is that the number of possible planets is so vast as to almost guarantee it.
The earliest stars formed from clouds of hydrogen and helium, so no planets, not even gas giants.
Also, a recent study showed Earth developed earlier than an estimated 92% of other potentially life-bearing planets.

>> No.7887187

ITT: a bunch of people who don't understand the Fermi paradox stroking each others' penises.

>> No.7887293

>>7887094
Absolutely nothing about there being allot of planets compels there to be life on those planets. Its possible but we really can't say if its likely or not.

Also like >>7887181 pointed out there is evidence to suggest we were fairly early to the game.

I know some people seem to have an almost pathological need to believe there's some ancient advanced species out there but its possible that we might actually be the ancient aliens.

>> No.7887336

>>7887187
this is /sci/ after all
1st semester calculus jokes and talking about things they don't understand

>> No.7887358

>>7886215
>>7886291
In my oppinion, intelligent life in our galaxy is so rare, that there could only be a handful or less of intelligent species in the milky way, or our means of looking for intelligent life are so primitive, that it is nearly pointless to do so. When talking about intelligent life in the universe, lets not count other galaxies because of cosmic expansion.
Dinosaurs ruled over our planet for 135 million years and not a single intelligent civilisation arised from that amount of time. The same case might apply on other goldilocks planets of our galaxy. Then comes humanity 200,000 years ago and explodes into the civilisation we are today and that is after all the times humans as such came close to extinction.
200,000 years is a fart in the wind compared to the age of the milky way and here we are. What humans should really do, is try to figure out what caused us to be different from all the unique life forms on our planet and start from there. There are plenty of intelligent life forms on our planet, even a chimp has the mentality of a 5 year old, but you don't see the chimp building skyscrapers do you. We are an anomaly on this planet and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that we "are" the aliens on this planet because nothing makes sense. Think of the reason why people in Africa are less intelligent than people from other parts of the world, one might say that people in Africa never had a reason to worry about survival as much as those who lived near harsher conditions, but that also could be applied to all the animals who migrate and you don't see them becoming more intelligent from doing so. Survival of the fittest clearly is not the key to evolving into intelligent species.

>>7886436
Statistically you shouldn't even be alive today. Statistically the chances of you dying from any kind of source are astronomically high and the numbers are in favour of you being dead than alive.

>> No.7887383

>>7886215
You don't understand the Fermi paradox.

>>7887121
I think this argument is by far the most fallacious and asinine in opposition to the Fermi paradox. It's pretty much a reworking of that 'ants can't comprehend humans so why would humans understand advance aliens' analogy that people love to use.

>> No.7887393

>>7887358

Maybe there are millions of civilisations in our galaxy but they are incapeable of expanding beyond their solar system due to extremely harsh conditions of space.
Maybe there are intelligent species that travel from one solar system to another by "planting" seeds into local bipedal habitants with genetic engineering and then proceed to babysit them until the species are able to handle things on their own. In that case, we should have some evidence of their presence on our planet from the history, or we our selves should be able to turn competent life forms (i.e chimps) into more intelligent beings. We haven't found a way of doing it yet but that could be a possibility if we make advancements in gene editing.
Maybe everything was created by an almighty invisible entity and religious nutcases were right all along with their "witch" burning.

>> No.7887396

maybe we were seeded by probes sent out by a long dead civ

maybe we end up doing the same thing one day

>> No.7887398

>>7886215
And those radio signals are incoherent at that point. Just noise in space.

>> No.7887410

Simple answer,
Interstellar travel is a no go.
Even though it's actually possible, it takes so fucking long, no individual is interested in spending their life on a ship, knowing he will not make it to the destination.
Expanding on that is the problem of the generations that are born on the ship. What would be your reaction when you're told you're just there for the transition?
There's also the logistics problem. It's not enough to throw your population at another world. You need everything and more to be able to survive on this alien world long enough to make it habitable for you. You can't have thousands of years of delay.
To be honest, the only scenario where I see Civilizations leaving their system is their star dying out. Most stars are red dwarfs with very long lifespans. So no incentive to expand.

>> No.7887414

>>7887410
Yeah sending vanilla humans on an interstellar journey = retarded

But that doesn't say anything about augmented humans or even completely synthetic forms of intelligent.

>> No.7887418

>>7887414
But then, what would be your incentive, as an organic being, for doing so.

>> No.7887430

>>7887410

If there is a way to ride a gravitational wave and accelerate near the speed of light by distorting space & time around the vehicle, then by incubating your self on the ship you could spend an infinite amount of time to travel while not being affected by time it self. You could simply go to sleep and wake up thousands of light years away from your home and your perception of the time it took to get there would be just like taking a nap. The reason is because time and space gets distorted around black holes. It's not like light can't escape a black hole, it's just that light doesn't get enough time to escape it from the insane curvature of gravity.

>> No.7887439

>>7886436
a lot*

You're right, though

>> No.7887443

>>7887430
Yes, that's the theory.
Practically, it means a phenomenal amount of energy.
As of now, we don't know that it's possible to locally generate that kind of power.
The Fermi paradox tells us it's not. Otherwise the galaxy would be fucking Star Wars.

>> No.7887448

>>7886215
I'm pretty sure that image is wrong, Earth's radio broadcasts won't reach the Andromeda galaxy for a long time.

>> No.7887451

>>7887448
I see what you did there...
Any Anon with an actual picture of the Milky way?

>> No.7887456

>>7887443

there could be a way to get enough energy for one trip, but it gets tricky here. What if we found means of tapping directly into our sun and suck up enough energy to make a trip to the closest solar system to repeat the process. Basically jumping from one star to another until the ship reaches its destination

>> No.7887463

>>7887456
I've seen Stargate Universe too.
Then again, that would pave the way for a Star Wars Galaxy(tm).
My argument is that the Fermi Paradox tells us Interstellar travel is fucking hard.

>> No.7887487

>>7887463

What if we live in star wars galaxy but are unable to see it because we literally live at the outskirts of milky way? Our methods of detecting things in outer space are very primitive, I mean we coudln't even tell that there's a jupiter sized object orbiting in oort cloud and literally have no idea what secrets oort cloud has to offer and that is right at the edge of our god damn solar system. Then scientists expect to detect alien civilisations hundreds and thousands of light years away with a fucking transit photometry, are you kidding me. The whole SETI program is so useless that it simply eats valuable resources and provides no results. The fact that our radio signals haven't reached shit might also be the reason why we haven't detected any, or simply maybe advanced civilisations use light to transmit information instead of primitive radio waves

>> No.7887492

>>7887463
I'll add to that, some philosophical questions.
What if sentient life developed while you were taking the trip? Where was human civilization 10 000 years ago?
Most likely, the atmospheric conditions would be such as we can't survive it.
What's the directive then?
Should we die to let them live?

>> No.7887508

>>7887487
I'd like it to be this way.
That we're pretty much blind about seeing other civilizations.
But I find it unlikely that other civilizations around us wouldn't see the potential for Intelligent life on Earth.
That's why IO think Interstellar is and will remain slow.
If our advance in technology in the last 100 years hasn't triggered a reaction yet, it's because interstellar travel takes at least that much.

>> No.7887545

>>7887508
>But I find it unlikely that other civilizations around us wouldn't see the potential for Intelligent life on Earth.

Let's say you have a telescope strong enough to zoom in on the surface of a planet that is located 60,000 light years away and you see weird alien lizzards eating each other, do you instantly presume they will evolve into sentinent and intelligent species? What if they did visit Earth at one point but saw nothing of particular interest? for 135 million years lizzards ate each other on Earth, but humans worth of interest have been around for only 50,000 years (first tools). Anyone 60,000 light years away from us still thinks space chimps are jumping around and throwing shit at each other. I'm pretty sure they don't consider us a point of interest at all.

>> No.7887557

>>7887545

forgot to add... presuming that an alien civilisation shares the same interests or agendas as humans is quite patronizing

>> No.7887843

>>7887545
Planetary science is telling us otherwise.
We're detecting planets around stars thousands of Ly away. I a decade it's likely we'll get a picture of one (granted 1x1 pixel).
If I saw complex life on a world (other that bacterial), I'd consider it a target for intelligence.

>> No.7887865

>>7887130
What if we used radio waves like really slow morse code or binary? Send signals for a year then stop for a year. Send signals for another year then stop. It would be static nonsense, but aliens could detect it stopping and starting.

>> No.7887869

>>7887383
>I think this argument is by far the most fallacious and asinine in opposition to the Fermi paradox. It's pretty much a reworking of that 'ants can't comprehend humans so why would humans understand advance aliens' analogy that people love to use.

It's an idea worth entertaining though.

>> No.7887875

>>7887865
Yeah, that's a possibility.
Yet I don't picture a civilization getting that desperate that they would build the infrastructure to do just that.

>> No.7887893

>>7887187
well, enlight us please with your pseudo scientific garbage

>> No.7887897
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7887897

>the universe is teaming with life because my tv shows told me so

>> No.7887916

>>7887897
>>the universe is teaming with life because my tv shows told me so

It probably isn't because of the constant gamma ray bursts. GRB are the single biggest life killers in the universe. Earth might be just hugely lucky.

>> No.7887934

>>7887383
Why is it wrong to assume that humans, searching using radio waves, would totally miss a more advanced message being sent using a method we're not familiar with?

>> No.7887943

>>7887934
It's that easy
A civilization ether transmits analogically, digitally, or, most likely, encrypted digital.
Needless to say, the later would render us blind.

>> No.7887945

>>7887934
It's not. The Fermi paradox is a thought puzzle, not a coherent statistical exploration. It's "for fun," not a sensible approach to the issue.

As a species we've known that there are multiple galaxies for more or less around a century. We've only just now started lining up conclusive evidence of extra-solar planets. We barely have the tiniest smattering of the galaxy searched or charted and, and this is fundamentally important that the Fermi paradox doesn't properly address, in our galaxy alone the time spread of the various regions we're studying is tens of thousands of light years.

The idea that we must necessarily have demonstrated anything statistically with this small a data sampling is something only those fundamentally ignorant of statistics could possibly believe. The Fermi paradox is a layman's toy, not a sensible idea.

>> No.7887950

>>7886215
In addition, the coherent spread for radio broadcasts for anyone not using an unbelievably wide array to sift through it doesn't even reach Alpha Centauri. As in, if we magically teleported a radio array to that system at the time our signals started reaching it, even knowing what to expect and where it was coming from, we'd have a hard time, with our tech, grabbing a coherent signal out of it.

>> No.7887961

>>7887897
If life is found on Europa then that would pretty much confirm that life is easy and hence widespread.

>> No.7887970

>>7887094
>The thought is that the number of possible planets is so vast as to almost guarantee it.
common misconception.

there are a lot of planets, but we have no idea what the probability of life showing up is.

the probability could be so low that we could easily be the only planet with life in the universe.

we simply do not have enough data to say for sure. earth gives us a statistical lower bound but it's not much of one.

>> No.7887976

>>7887970
Exactly. A sample size of "1" is a lousy way to derive meaningful statistics by any standard.

>> No.7887986

>>7887976
The conditions when life appeared on Earth are so different from today, it seams to really be about having these conditions once, and then life adapts itself.

>> No.7888468

>>7887986
>conditions when life appeared

that always puzzles me. If life is easy given the right conditions - why is all life related to a common ancestor ? Why didn't other types of life start in the billions of years when conditions were right ?

>> No.7888477

>>7887961
>If life is found on Europa then that would pretty much confirm that life is easy and hence widespread.
Or that panspermia pervades our own solar system, and my be all bu absent elsewhere.

>> No.7888788
File: 359 KB, 1200x800, new_milky_way-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7888788

>>7887451

OP here : http://www.nature.com/news/galaxy-formation-the-new-milky-way-1.11517

>> No.7888928

>>7887943
>it can only be this or this and nothing else
What if their communications are based on the fundamental zeeblorx interaction in physics that we have yet to discover? We're like cavemen sending smoke signals to a civilization using 4G cellular data transmissions.

>> No.7888935

>>7888928
Maybe.

Its also possible they're not much older or more advanced than us, or they just don't exist at all.

This is why speculating about aliens is so dumb. Literally fucking anything is possible with this. We don't know enough to make any reasonable assumptions about their level of technology or even if they exist.

>> No.7888950

>>7886291
There is only one solar system.

>> No.7888976

This is the only place in the universe that has life.
Deal with it.

>> No.7889001

>>7888950

Stellar system then.

>> No.7889014

>>7889001
>implying anything exists beyond the flat disk of the earth

Anon those "stars" are just NASA lies.

>> No.7889017

>>7888976
Personally I prefer the angle of there being abundant life littering the universe. But we will will never, ever come into contact with it nor see any proof of it's existence due to the time/distance scale involved.

So we might as well be alone, for all that it matters.

Deal with it.

>> No.7889096

>>7886291
How would we differentiate between ayy lmao broadcasts and random noise?

>> No.7889102

>>7889096
Unless they were incredibly powerful and specifically targeted at us, we would not be able to.

Isn't it something like a mere 3 ly before the shit has dissipated to the point of just being noise?

>> No.7889127

>>7889017
That sounds suspiciously like a defeatist attitude anon.

>> No.7889130

>>7889096
Why did you type Ayy Lmao?

>> No.7889132

>>7889130
ayy lmao

>> No.7889136

>>7889132
Ignore this moron from /x/

>> No.7889164

>>7886215
>Hey guys just came to /sci/ to let y'all know I haven't fully grasped the Fermi paradox.

>> No.7889445

>>7889164

This is the Fermi paradox : "If there was extraterrestrial civilizations, their representatives should already be here. Where are they? "

This picture demonstrate that not seeing or detecting ET civilization is not a proof of their non-existence.

>> No.7889465

>>7889017

oh, you sound just like the people from 19th century. Back then it was outrageous and impractical to think of flight being possible.

We haven't even scratched the surface of what cosmos has to offer, what secrets it hides. It seems impossible to travel the stars because of all the hostile factors in space. If you don't remember, then it was 55 years ago that the first man reached space and 8 years later moon landing happened. Now in 2016 we have HD pictures from the surface of Mars.

Progression is rapidly speeding up and after 100 years, people will look back to this day and think how stupid we were.

And you anon, you should GTFO of this board for your pessimism. You are a disgrace and do not deserve to browse /sci/, you should be sent to papua new guinea to join your kind.

>> No.7890548
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7890548

>>7889465
>le 19th century fligh meme
nigga we can trace the first airships directly back to the 18th century

>> No.7890559

The Fermi paradox doesn't account for the possibility that we are the first race

>> No.7890598

>>7890559
Wasn't there a study released a couple of months ago that stated that there is a 92% chance we are the first sentient specie in the universe because the age of our planet in relation to the universe and how planets that can support life are rare.

>> No.7890634

>>7887187
what's to understand, you supercilious twit? it's not like it's fucking rocket science. idiot.

>> No.7890654

>>7887897
>teaming

idiot

>> No.7890660

>>7890598

I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me, even if intelligent species had come before it they could've died out before getting advanced enough to do anything anyway

>> No.7890670

>>7890660
They're most likely dead due to their own internal problems.

>> No.7890690

>>7890548

oh really, how did that work out for the 18th century man? a fucking air baloon does not count as proper air transportation... might as well say flight existed when mayans ruled, when Da'Vinci made triangle parachutes...

>> No.7890967
File: 581 KB, 1800x1164, 16500feetmilkywaykc2_brunier.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7890967

>>7887451
You want a full-disk picture of a galaxy we're INSIDE OF?

>> No.7891238
File: 793 KB, 400x228, 22.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7891238

>>7887557
I think from an evolutionary perspective other intelligent species would have to have developed similarly

Societies could have only developed from intelligent lifeforms coexisting in close proximity well enough to grow, advance technology and not blow each other up. Thus the traits for more calm, peaceful intelligence would be passed on for not getting into fights and shit over time. I guess that and caring for your mate, young, family too.

Does it not make sense that they would have similar interests as a result of needing to survive on their planet in close proximity to their own species?

Do you think life everywhere has to follow the same coexisting path for intelligence to prevail over other evolutionary advantages?

Is there a way for life to evolve intelligence in a more malicious way and to prevail long enough to become a space-faring species?

I think I'm just rambling now.

>> No.7891249

The cat is both dead and alive until observed. NOTHING ELSE.

>> No.7891257

>>7891249
>implying Schrödinger's cat has anything to do with macroscopic phenomena

Anon...

>> No.7891267

>>7891257
There's no point in even wondering. Just turn on a sensor, then get to the meaningful stuff.

>> No.7891291

>>7887492
>I'll add to that, some ethical questions.

Ftfy

>> No.7891305

>>7886291
>Statistically

What statistics? Where is your sample size? You're a moron, read a stats book first.

>> No.7891307

>>7886215
>that the Fermi paradox is BS

It's not. There are hypothetical solutions already taking this into account.

How about you read a little before you shitpost?

>> No.7891719

>>7891307

I demonstrated it

>> No.7891745

>savage looks out of cave mouth
>sees no smoke signals on the horizon
>proclaims his is the only cave with savages in it

Life on Earth is common elements and molecules, most of which exist in abundance in the solar system conveniently delivered by comets.

Claiming that the sum total of intelligent life in the cosmos only exists on Earth is an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary evidence.

>> No.7891747

>>7886436

>life on earth is magic

That's basically your position.

>> No.7891748

>>7886291
>Statistically
Lrn2statistics fgt pls

>> No.7891750

>>7891719
>I demonstrated my ignorance
FTFY

>> No.7891751

>>7886291

>implying a comprehensive survey has been conducted

>> No.7891794

>>7891257

>implying there's a quantum demarcation

Prove it.

>> No.7891830

>>7891794
Have you ever observed macroscopic quantum phenomena? Has anyone? Pretty sure the answer is no.

>> No.7891884

>>7889445
>This is the Fermi paradox : "If there was extraterrestrial civilizations, their representatives should already be here. Where are they? "
Yeah, no

>> No.7892020

>>7891884

You confuse the Drake equation and the Fermi paradox. I am sure of it.

>> No.7892047

I would hate for any life out there to see this guy and think he is what smart people are on this planet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9g-9htg3Xs

>> No.7893038

>>7891830

Photons, particles and atoms all exhibit quantum properties, even molecules are observed to exhibit quantum properties. Last I looked everything in the "macroscopic" reality was made of these objects, are they somehow magically not quantum any more?

>> No.7893117

>>7886215
Welp, looks like I'm three days late to this thread; guess that's what I get for taking a break from /sci/ for a while. Here's the obvious solution to the "paradox."

In about a century and a half, humans have gone from communicating via the pony express and dying at the age of 35 to where we are today: probes on the moons of Saturn, infinite internet porn, quad core CPUs in phones...

Whether you believe in the "singularity" or not, you can't reasonably deny that our technology progresses exponentially. In another 150 years or so, the human race is going to be wildly different from what it is today -- exponentially more so than comparing 2016 to the 1800s. Unless there simply is no solution to the FTL problem (no wormholes, no warp drive, no whatever), we are definitely going to be capable of traveling anywhere in the universe. We're going to have solved the biological problems of disease, aging, etc. In other words, we're no longer going to be confined to the Earth and these crappy meat vessels. We're going to be spread throughout the universe.

Assuming that we are average, as a race, all the other civilizations out there will also take just a couple of centuries or so to make the same progress. That means that for a given race, there's only a hundred years or so where they sit on a planet and do stuff like watching TV that we could actually detect (ignoring the fact that their signals are probably too weak, anyway). The start of that hundred years, for them, could have been at any other time since the first habitable planets formed (billions and billions of years). So divide 150 years by that "billions and billions" number and you'll get the probability that RIGHT NOW is when we could actually observe another civilization by detecting their radio waves. It's something like one in ten million. And the odds are even worse than that because you'll need to wait thousands or millions or more years for their signals to actually reach us.

>> No.7893124

>>7893038
Quantum tunnel through a wall then

>> No.7893534

>>7886436
you are 100% correct. however, that also does not mean that one of them DIDN'T have life 7 billion years before us.

hence the uncertainty and the interest.

>> No.7893543

>>7892047
I would love to see him death and cum in him

>> No.7893880

>>7893124

Ignore the physics then.

>> No.7893884

There is 100% certainty that life can arise from common elements and chemical processes. It is basically supernaturalism to imply it's only possible on this one planet.

>> No.7893930

>>7890967
Nice.
We aint going nowhere.
We cant even name our locality yet.
The Milky way
The moon
The earth
And what the fuk is our solar system called?

>> No.7893957
File: 7 KB, 144x172, 415454353.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7893957

>>7886215
The rare-earth proposal is obviously correct, since we are snowflakes so special that for life to occur elsewhere is all but impossible.

>> No.7893970

Nah mate life is magic pixie dust and humans are the pinnacle of evolution.

>> No.7893990
File: 55 KB, 500x708, antfarm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7893990

One ant has discovered something.

>> No.7894046

>>7886215
500billion galaxies multiplied by 500million stars in all galaxies mutiply by at least 3 planets where life could have form and you will see why it makes no sense that we are alone and didnt make contact.

>> No.7894054

Some people find it contentious that there is water on other planets.

>> No.7894123

>>7894046
>and didn't make contact
Abiogenesis is assured.
Technological civilisation is not.
We may very well be the first in this galaxy.

It would be nice to be a precursor and molest all those supple and tender and asking for it young species out there.

>> No.7894505

>>7894123
>abiogenesis is assured

How?

>Technological civilization is not

How?

>> No.7894511

>>7894505
>It would be nice to be a precursor and molest all those supple and tender and asking for it young species out there.

oh yeh,I forgot


yeh yeh,it would be so cool to have a star trek future

>> No.7894520

>>7893990
That someone is watching us?

>> No.7894570

>people arguing if there is life on other planetd when we are unsure how life started in oyr own

>> No.7894586

>>7894573

>> No.7895143

>>7887410
>Expanding on that is the problem of the generations that are born on the ship. What would be your reaction when you're told you're just there for the transition?

Even with 20%-30% speed of light you would be able to reach near stars in your lifetime.

>> No.7895147

>>7887545
>Let's say you have a telescope strong enough to zoom in on the surface of a planet that is located 60,000 light years away and you see weird alien lizzards eating each other, do you instantly presume they will evolve into sentinent and intelligent species?

Depends on how common life in universe is.
I would send a probe and observe them until they are capable of interfering in other lifeforms in the universe and then warn them not hinder natural processes that create unique civilizations and technologies.

>> No.7895150

>>7888935
>Literally fucking anything is possible with this. We don't know enough to make any reasonable assumptions about their level of technology or even if they exist.

In 20 yeas we should have telescopes allowing us to see other planets in certain ways.

>> No.7895152

>>7889445
>This is the Fermi paradox : "If there was extraterrestrial civilizations, their representatives should already be here. Where are they? "

A-they wouldn't be here necessarily
B-they wouldn't necessarily contact us, especially if they are millions of years ahead.
Would probably stop our development.Maybe they prefer us to be something unique.

>> No.7895157

>>7893117
>We're going to have solved the biological problems of disease, aging, etc. In other words, we're no longer going to be confined to the Earth and these crappy meat vessels. We're going to be spread throughout the universe.

First assumption eliminates the need for reproduction.
We may just very well be travelers and explorers not colonizers.

>> No.7895181

>>7895157
>eliminating reproduction
Oh no anon once we figure out how to remove the egg cells of fertile women and place them in artificial wombs with sperm from the males to fertilize we can speed up human reproduction 10 fold infact we can finally let the fetus fully develop in the womb without the premature birth caused by bipedal stature. Genetic engineering should also allow us to one day reduce the development time of our human offspring from 9 months to months to 4 months to 2 months to 1 months in the very very distant future.

>> No.7895212

>>7895181
And ? For what purpose?

>> No.7896229

>>7893930
>And what the fuk is our solar system called?
...it's called the solar system..?

[SOL]ar system
SOL is an alternative name for our sun.

Earth is part of a PLANETARY system called the SOLAR system

>> No.7896744

I don't know about intelligent life but there's still so many interesting places to visit.

I want to explore.

>> No.7898603

I thought the Fermi paradox was just a paradox if you assume that life should exist due to the sheer number of stars and planet out there.

Hence, as long as one intelligent species can arise, one should have colonized the galaxy and/or, colonized our Earth by now, even if they are limited by the speed of light.

>> No.7898881

>>7886215

the fermi paradox is early troll science

>> No.7898891

>Take a wifi router
>Magically teleport back to the 1940s
>Wonder why nobody joins your wifi network

This is you guys right now

>> No.7899177

Earth is a zoo. The Zoo Hypothesis is real. Do you expect an ant to understand how a two-way mirror works?

>> No.7899214
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7899214

>>7899177
>Do you expect an ant to understand how a two-way mirror works?
I never liked the "ant" thing.
Why would natural selection drive intelligence to heights much greater than our own?
Why would star-traveling tech (or solar-system zoo tech) require aliens much, much smarter than ourselves?
People 200 years ago or more weren't ants compared to us, and look at all the tech we have that they don't.

>The Zoo Hypothesis is real.
Any evidence for this? Anything to suggest this is more likely than the dozens of other explanations?

>> No.7899229

>>7899177
what the fuck is a two-way mirror

>> No.7899239

>>7899214

Occam's Razor, friend.

>>7899229

You should type that into a search engine. I heard www.google.com is good for that.

>> No.7899352

>ant can't smell pheromone from across the pacific ocean
>proclaims that no ants live across the ocean and even if they did, it's too far to swim

>> No.7899356
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7899356

>>7899239
>Occam's Razor, friend.
lol, nope.
Occam's Razor would suggest travel between the stars is very difficult, the universe is sparsely populated, and if intelligent, tool-bearing life is plentiful, it's because it evolved in so many diverse environments that any given neighbors probably couldn't live comfortably on Earth.
See also: Hitchen's Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
checkmate zoo-tard

>> No.7899537

>>7887383
well, there is the argument that Advanced alien life would communicate through higher frequency EM waves than radio waves, like IR or even visible light which has prompted the move to IR and visible light observatories rather than radio wave listening stations.

>> No.7899547

>>7888477
Panspermia wouldn't have been an immaculate conception... it implies that life came from somewhere else

>> No.7899569

>>7899547

Europa could have life that is actually Earth based, bacteria that managed to end up there due to a debris caused by a meteor impact

>> No.7899572

>>7889130
it's a meme you dip

>> No.7899628

>>7886215
>other intelligent life starts 100 million years ago in our galaxy
>has already fizzled out at this point
>we're too late to see the signals from them
>those that come after us will be too late to see our signals
>the cycle continues forever

>> No.7899631

why do we assume that intelligent life is common?

for all we know there's a shitton of life out there but it's all unicellular garbage or some sort of fish kind of things

I mean intelligent life on this planet took forever to emerge

>> No.7899636
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7899636

>>7899628
>until a species evolves that realizes the pettiness and greed of longing for more than they already have

>> No.7899638

>>7899636

It's unlikely they'd ever get that far without pettiness and greed

>> No.7899642
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7899642

>>7886215
there are billions of planets in that gigantic area you cumbubble.

just face it, we're alone in the univerce

>> No.7899643

I concede with the fact that there most be more life in the universe. But inteligent life is not a given just like it's not a given to find a woodpecker. Our intelligence is an high specialized evolution.

>> No.7899647

>>7899642
>200 light years
>billions of planets

dude weed lmao

>> No.7899649

>>7899647
yes. did you take astronomy 101 ?

>> No.7899656

>>7899636
>>7899638

damn

that got me

>> No.7899660

>>7895147
What if there are thousands or even millions of planet with live in it. What if it's pretty common for this civilization to encounter planets with life that they pretty much don't bother with them for the most part.

>> No.7899673

>>7899649
maybe if you said millions you'd be correct

>> No.7899674

>>7899356
>Occam's Razor would suggest travel between the stars is very difficult, the universe is sparsely populated, and if intelligent, tool-bearing life is plentiful, it's because it evolved in so many diverse environments that any given neighbors probably couldn't live comfortably on Earth.

you have evidence to back up that statement?

checkmate double-standard-fag

>> No.7899744

>>7886436
the statistics that seem to suggest earth and its sun are mediocre, that they are not rare or unique, and the fact that life arose almost immediately after heavy bombardment does seem to equal
>life on one of them must have started 7 billion years before us

>> No.7899787

>>7887410
>jews decided to just stay in egypt because they may not live to see the promised land.
your right. if theres one thing the history of humans shows its that evetually theyll just give up instead of striving to survive

>> No.7900295

>>7889445
They're already here, reptilians man.

>> No.7900316

>>7899643
>Our intelligence is an high specialized evolution
except it isnt

>> No.7900444

>>7887875
We did

>> No.7900451
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7900451

>>7900295
>reptilians
Not sure whether they are currently here, they have their terran minions. You don't send 'representatives' to a nice level three planet at the periphery of your empire that you consider a natural resource. You send your semi-autonomous worker bees to do the harvesting, the Greys. Do we send 'representatives' to the squirrel nation before we deforest their habitat?

>> No.7901560

Humans's are the progenitor race, now we have to leave a bunch of artifacts around the universe so future space faring races can find them

>> No.7901563
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7901563

>>7886215
>Fermi paradox
>164 posts
>ctrl+f nuclear
>0 results

>> No.7901575

>>7901563

What's nuclear have to do with this?

>> No.7901604

>>7901575
>What's nuclear have to do with this?
Old-school sci-fi often featured the theme "aliens noticed us because atomic weapons".

>> No.7901611

>>7901604

New school aliens notice us when we develop warp

>> No.7901650

>>7901575
>>7901604
>What's nuclear have to do with this?
The most obvious explanation for why no space travelling civilizations have contacted us so far is because they all blew themselves up not too long after discovering the power of nuclear weapons. 70 years isn't a terribly long time.

>> No.7901688

>>7890598
This would be great news because if (intelligent) life was abundant the Fermi Paradoxon would imply that the average life time of a civilization has to be short at best.

>> No.7901730

>>7901688

Dubs for truth

>> No.7901741

>>7901650
ALL of them?

>> No.7901745
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7901745

>>7890598
>Wasn't there a study released a couple of months ago that stated that there is a 92% chance we are the first sentient specie in the universe
Great Googly-Moogly, no.
Just wow.

No, a recent study showed the Earth may have developed earlier than 92% of the other potentially habitable planets in our galaxy.

That still means 8% of the crowd has a head start on us.

>> No.7901748

>>7887934
Just sit back one minute and consider which argument makes the most assumptions.

>> No.7901752

>>7892020
No, you fundementally have misunderstood the Fermi paradox mate

>> No.7901762

>>7901745

Intelligent life is not inevitable, how long did we have dinos roaming the planet and had they not been forced to evolve so significantly the earth could still potentially be filled with dumb dinos now and no technologically advanced lifeforms

>> No.7901763

>>7901741
Who knows? Like I said, we are perhaps too used to judging everything we know based on such a small timescale. Improving technology makes many means more easily available to everyone with the wrong intentions. It might even be terrorists with biochemical weapons that bring about the end of humanity. Maybe I'm too cynical but I'm actually impressed we've made it this far without a few additional nukes being dropped.

>> No.7901777

And to put things into yet another perspective: We are probably at a point in time where there are individuals with the power to end life on earth at the press of a button, save for maybe a few bunkers and very resistant organisms. We've also seen multiple empires ruled by mentally insane people in the past century alone. I don't know what about this should be very confidence-inspiring.

>> No.7901816
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7901816

>>7901762
>Intelligent life is not inevitable,
Of course not, but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe#Extrapolation_from_number_of_stars
>There is no way to know exactly the number of stars, but from current literature, the range of 10^22 to 10^24 is normally quoted.[58][59][60][61]

Even if intelligent life is a trillion to one shot for a given star, AND only 10% of them have existed yet, that's still 1-100 BILLION civilizations.

>> No.7902951

>>7901816
>Civilization
Life =/= civilization

>> No.7903274

>Repeating radio signals coming from a mystery source far beyond the Milky Way have been discovered by scientists. While one-off fast radio bursts (FRBs) have been detected in the past, this is the first time multiple signals have been detected coming from the same place in space.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/frbs-mystery-repeating-radio-signals-discovered-emanating-unknown-cosmic-source-1547133

>> No.7903729

>>7903274

Oh shiiiiit

aliums nigga

>> No.7903745

>>7903729
>In the study, researchers suggest the repeating bursts are coming from a very young neutron star. "Although there may be multiple physical origins for the population of fast radio bursts, these repeat bursts with high dispersion measure and variable spectra specifically seen from the direction of FRB 121102 support an origin in a young, highly magnetised, extragalactic neutron star," they wrote.

>> No.7903748

>>7903274
Isnt this proven to be like some sort of sun or some shit like that ?

>> No.7903944

OPINIONS TIME:

are we pre-filter, or post-filter?

>> No.7903962

>>7903944
>are we pre-filter, or post-filter?
This is hubris.
The whole "Great Filter" thing is egotistical because it's saying "we live in the most incredibly important moment in history".
Nah. We probably don't.

>> No.7905138

>>7886436
>allot

>> No.7905346
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7905346

What does /sci/ make of the Super Predator (think Antispirals from TTGL) hypothesis? That there's some kind of Godlike aliens monopolizing space that hunt down and exterminate any intelligent life arising that threatens their monopoly?

It actually kinda scares the shit out of me.

>> No.7905764

>>7886705
All planets with life evolve at least human like intelligence. The reason there isn't more human like intelligence on earth is because of competition. Human like intelligence kills off all other human-likes as a matter of survival. They're smart enough to recognize the danger a competing kind poses, smart enough to only breed with the best/most human like, smart enough to locate all the best resources and keep them from competing kinds until there's rapidly only one human kind left. This also means that the lack of other human like intelligence around us isn't argument for the lack of alien life.

>> No.7905768

>>7905346
Why wouldn't there be a predator that hunts the predators of other life? The super-duper predator isn't afraid of life that's so far behind it on an evolutionary scale.

>> No.7905790

>>7905346
What's TTGL and are they like the Reapers in Mass Effect?

>> No.7905794
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7905794

>>7905346

>> No.7905796

>>7905346
slaughterhouse 5

>> No.7905800

>>7905790

It's a stupid Japanese cartoon show about shirtless idiots piloting an ugly giant robot that pilots bigger ugly robots until it gets universe-sized and beats up a giant guy who stopped himself evolving because evolving makes galaxies and destroys the universe.

>> No.7905812

>>7905764
>all planets with life evolve at least human like intelligence
>this also means that the lack of other human like intelligence around us isn't argument for the lack of alien life
You basing any of this on actual scientific data or just what you "feel like" should be right?

>> No.7905817

>>7887451
fuck idk dude, that's gonna require one hell of a selfie stick

>> No.7905826

>>7887843
>if I saw

And what makes you think your action is in any way relevant to what some alien civilization would do? Saying "I would have done this" to try and rationalize your argument about aliens makes no sense at all

>> No.7905832

>>7890598
>a study that concludes there is a 92% chance we are the first sentient species in the universe

>implying implementing a "study" like this is even possible and worth anything to anybody

>> No.7905846

>>7905800
Sounds cool. What's the title?

>> No.7905849

>>7893884
Not really. What if the chance of life forming is 10^(-10^10^999999999999999999999999999999)? Then we could easily be the first, and in fact, it would be very unusually that life arrived this early. You have no basis to talk about how easy or hard it is for life to arrive, only that it is possible, which means nothing other than it is physically impossible. There are many physical phenomena which are possible but will probably (99.9999999%) never happen

>> No.7905860
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7905860

>>7898891
>tfw when I'm your 40s wifi network
>NSA surveillance van 6

Thought you could time travel to escape? Guess again

>> No.7905863

>>7905812
You quoted the first and last sentence when I already answered your question with the other three sentences in between.

>The reason there isn't more human like intelligence on earth is because of competition. Human like intelligence kills off all other human-likes as a matter of survival. They're smart enough to recognize the danger a competing kind poses, smart enough to only breed with the best/most human like, smart enough to locate all the best resources and keep them from competing kinds until there's rapidly only one human kind left.

The scientific evidence is the only known planet with life evolved on kind of human-like intelligence and no others and I already gave my views as to why and how it pertains to life on other planets eg aliens.

>> No.7905867

>>7905863
>on kind
*one kind

>> No.7905877

>>7905863
And you base this off of what? What good is a base case when there's nothing else to compare it to? The truth is we have absolutely no idea what normally happens with life because we only have one model to observe, and we could easily be a fucked up anomaly that is not at all how shit is supposed to work

>> No.7905890

>>7905877
>What good is a base case when there's nothing else to compare it to?
As a means of explaining the lack of other human-like intelligence for life on earth and a model for explaining why the lack of other human-like intelligence on earth can't be used as a reason to exclude the possibility of life on other planets. That is to say, if the logic is that the lack of other human-like intelligence on earth is a reason for why human-like intelligence might be rare on other planets. My explanation is an alternate and more plausible theory.

I'm not even sure what you think you're arguing with exactly. You seem mad about an idea that might conflict with some opinion you hold in high regard, with no actual argument against my specific one.

>> No.7905897

>>7905846

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

>> No.7905978

>>7905890
Okay, I agree with you on that point. But whose to say how long it's supposed to take for intelligence to develop? We only have one reference point. I'm not saying there isn't life out there, I think there is a strong chance there is, but people naturally try to fit whatever "life" might be to the one and only model we know and there's intrinsic fallacy in that.

>> No.7905991

>>7905897
Ah damn, I didn't realize. Started watching that, did not like. The setting is cool and stuff, but the characters are bad imo.

>> No.7906035
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7906035

>>7901575
anon just marathoned the X-files on Netflix and has a hard on, that's why

>> No.7906091

>>7905978
I have no idea how long and no real concept of time. What I see is similarities in everything everywhere. You have earth and you have a limitless amount of earth-like planets. If the universe creates planets that are earth like with so much remarkable similarity, so many stars with such similarity and so on, why wouldn't life also be created by the universe with such similarities on parallel planets? Why wouldn't every planet that evolves "complex" lifeforms evolve a human-like intelligence? In spite of all that can happen to change circumstances, the universe has still managed to create many complex things all bearing remarkable similarity, including earth like planets. What I mean is that the universe does things in a very uniform way, in spite of all its complexity. Maybe life is far more formulaic than we think? Again, I point to the similarities in all things in the universe, the recurrence of all things in the universe and it makes me think that human-like intelligence, if life exists outside of earth, is not particularly rare if rare at all.

>> No.7906983

>>7903274
Ayyy lmao