Proof of Heaven?

[Anonymous No.7747871]

[1/2]
Huge post, earth-shattering implications, please read

Background:
>Dr. Eben Alexander, Harvard neurosurgeon, one of the best in the world
>was in some sort of insane coma where he was almost actually dead, and his meningitis was so severe that his brain was not capable of functioning enough to have hallucinations/dreams while in coma
>claims to have outer body experience, experienced his "soul" or "mind" floating around space and in extreme happiness
>in his book, "Proof of Heaven", he creates 9 different hypotheses to explain his experience from a scientific standpoint. He, and colleagues at Harvard, Duke, UVA, Stanford, among the best neuroscientists/neurosurgeons in the world, cannot find a scientific explanation and whole heartedly believe him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkgj5J91hE

Critique:
>Sam Harris, famous author on philosophy, Ph.D in neuroscience (but not a practicing neuroscientist, does not have nearly the credentials Eben Alexander does, but is no schmuck.)
>Harris's main point is that there is no way to determine if Alexander's "experience" happened while his brain was incapable of hallucination/consciousness, or if the experience occurred while he was coming back online and recovering, hence the waking up from the coma.
>NOTE: This critique was written before Alexander's book came out, and the book contains the 9 hypotheses Alexander and the top neuroscientists in the world were unable to explain
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-be-heaven

Alexander's response
>continued....

[Anonymous No.7747884]

>>7747871
Neurosurgeons are glorified butchers, and going to Harvard doesn't mean much more than that you come from a wealthy jewfamily.

[Anonymous No.7747887]

[2/2]

Alexander's response to Harris's criticism:
>"Isolated preservation of cortical regions might have explained some elements of my experience, but certainly not the overall odyssey of rich experiential tapestry. The severity of my meningitis and its refractoriness to therapy for a week should have eliminated all but the most rudimentary of conscious experiences: peripheral white blood cell [WBC] count over 27,000 per mm3, 31 percent bands with toxic granulations, CSF WBC count over 4,300 per mm3, CSF glucose down to 1.0 mg/dl (normally 60-80, may drop down to ~ 20 in severe meningitis), CSF protein 1,340 mg/dl, diffuse meningeal involvement and widespread blurring of the gray-white junction, diffuse edema, with associated brain abnormalities revealed on my enhanced CT scan, and neurological exams showing severe alterations in cortical function (from posturing to no response to noxious stimuli, florid papilledema, and dysfunction of extraocular motility [no doll's eyes, pupils fixed], indicative of brainstem damage). Going from symptom onset to coma within 3 hours is a very dire prognostic sign, conferring 90% mortality at the very beginning, which only worsened over the week. No physician who knows anything about meningitis will just “blow off” the fact that I was deathly ill in every sense of the word, and that my neocortex was absolutely hammered. Anyone who simply concludes that “since I did so well I could not have been that sick” is begging the question, and knows nothing whatsoever about severe bacterial meningitis."

Sam Harris was unmoved by this response and believed the original criticism is still valid.

[Anonymous No.7747898]

My takeaways:
>i know nothing about neuroscience or neurosurgery
>objectively, Eben Alexander and his colleagues seem way more qualified than Harris
>also objectively, Harris's point seems extremely valid
>I am unable to decipher Eben Alexander's jargon, so I have no clue whether or not it is valid. It is possible that Harris cannot decipher it either.

Can people with neuroscience knowledge please fill me in here?

[Anonymous No.7747903]

Oh here's a link to Eben Alexander's response to Harris. The article does seem biased in favor of Alexander, and the links to the original content are conveniently broken.
http://iands.org/news/news/research-news/888-eben-alexander-answers-skeptics-criticisms.html

[Anonymous No.7747910]

>>7747884
>salty poorfag with no valid scientific explanation detected

are you out of tendies?

[Anonymous No.7747915]

Bump. Seriously guys this is infinitely more important than most of what is on /sci/

[Anonymous No.7748188]

>>7747915
>implying

[Anonymous No.7748198]

>>7747871
A neurosurgeon is not a scientist, Dr oz sells his shill medicine and no one on this board would consider it science.

Further more, a quick read of the wikipedia page suggests the guy really doesn't know his shit..

So, in short, BTFO.

[Anonymous No.7749912]

>>7747871
Simply eben

[Anonymous No.7749917]

>>7748198
>a neurosurgeon is not a scientist

lmao just kill yourself

[Anonymous No.7749927]

>>7747898
I don't see how a neurosurgeon is more qualified than neuroscientists to tell what's happening in a brain during coma.

[Anonymous No.7749935]

>>7749917
But that's true. A neurosurgeon is a surgeon, he does surgery based on well established techniques and theories. A scientist does experiments to tests new theories and design new techniques.

[Anonymous No.7749936]

>>7749935
some faggot on 4chan hasn't BTFO shit and I'd like to see more detailed refutations than lmao not even a real scientist man heh

[Anonymous No.7749942]

>>7747871
>>7749917
Religious and other supersitious fags are so obsessed with authority of statements.

A statement is not a hypothesis if it cannot be tested. Titles don't magically turn bullshit into science. if this asshole has actual, testable hypotheses.. let faggots make experiments and results be critiqued. This is how science is done. TLDR; Op is a faggot

[Anonymous No.7749943]

>>7749936
Believe what you want, I don't care. If you want to try yourself, do it, it will do us a great service.

[Anonymous No.7749949]

>>7749943
seriously why shouldn't I believe this guy, because some nerds cosplaying bill nye on a punjabi pilates forum don't like it

it's not even like I do believe him 100%, but if he's not bullshitting this deserves some attention

[Anonymous No.7749955]

>>7749936
The whole story is "some asshole makes claims". What is there to discuss? I've met hundreds of similar assholes making claims throughout my life and I don't waste the time of day to delve into their bullshit.

A much better discussion could be had about why people are so compelled by sensationalism, especially when the headlines reaffirm their bullshit beliefs.

[Anonymous No.7749957]

>>7749955
>le jaded science man whose getting too old for this shit maymay

[Anonymous No.7749968]

>>7749949
There is a very straightforward way to check if he is bullshitting or not. It's called experimentation and review. What you believe doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.7750038]

>>7749968
Drones all of you

[Anonymous No.7750047]

Let Ebin be your guide...

[Anonymous No.7750058]

>>7747871
>man makes unverifiable claims
Wow! What a story! Thanks for sharing, OP! You're really contributing to this board!

[Anonymous No.7750074]

>>7747871
The only paradise for me would be being a wolf

[Anonymous No.7750085]

>>7750074
Keked hard

[Anonymous No.7750086]

>on /sci/
>see thread about non-repeatable (and hence non-scientific) nonsense
>turn 360° and leave

[Anonymous No.7751286]

>>7749917
It's amazing how many people with no understanding of medical training and practice feel that physicians are scientists. Boggles my mind. I've studied science most of my life at the didactic level rather than clinical, and in matters of science I would trust a self educated person over a physician ANY day of the week. Not to say they aren't absolute masters of their craft, it's just that science isn't their craft lol

With that said, I would still take a specialized physicians statements seriously, but by no means as authoritative. Rather a starting point for further, legitimate study.