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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7739100 No.7739100 [Reply] [Original]

Is computer software made out of atoms?

>> No.7739105

Thanks for the gif

Y yes, but it also has electrons

>> No.7739123

Computer software is non-physical

>> No.7739126

Computer software can be anything, like holes in a punch-card or a certain voltage or squeaks and whistles. It's really more of a process or series of steps than the thing it's "written" with.

>> No.7739702

software is made out of thoughts
information is not physical

>> No.7739864

In reality, software is just a long range of 1s and 0s, on and off, so it's more of an electrical thing than an atom thing, the complicated highway of circuits allows computers to do many things, primarily math.

in summary it is affected by physical, its preserved in physical memories, but its utilization is merely virtual

>> No.7739878

Is software made out of the same stuff like consciousness?

>> No.7739905

>Is computer software made out of atoms?
It could be but does not have to be. Software is simply instructions to a computer and could be in a medium of anything that is lasting. Punched cards are made of atoms. Charges in a RAM is made of atoms. Qbits are in the form of waveform superpositions. Optical computers use light. Wetware use combinations of neural connections and weighting.

>software is made out of thoughts
This will surprise anyone who has made computer hardware. It is like claiming the menu itself is the food. I have always suspected the most extreme free software guys of eating pages and pages of menus from restaurants until kicked out.

>> No.7739907

No its made out of electrons.

>> No.7739908

>Charges in a RAM is made of atoms.
Argh! Sorry, I meant electrons. Bah!

>> No.7739918
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>information is not physical

oh but sir conway begs to differ my friend

we are entering a new age in time where form follows function

witness the power of cellular automata


>> No.7739921
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>software is made out of thoughts
>information is not physical

>> No.7739926
File: 77 KB, 412x291, article-2012july-a-designers-guide-to-mems-fig1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


and you have some physical logic foo


>> No.7739954
File: 34 KB, 200x200, 1343525115396.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This shit is really cool, but one of the issues I've always had with this was the stability of the system. In the real world, stuff can bump into each other non-destructively, but here, just some random block it bumps into can completely destroy your structure. Nevertheless, very cool stuff, I see this a definite proof that complexity can arise from simplicity.

>> No.7739960

>It is like claiming the menu itself is the food.

No, it's like claiming a story is made of words and ideas, not paper and ink. A book in paper form or digital form or spoken aloud is still the same book, but according to you they would be completely different things.

>> No.7739971


in the real world stuff does indeed bump into each other but the question is: destruction or non-destruction? nature does both of it at the same time.

because in the end 'destruction' is an abstract term bc in reality it's just transmission of energy and it can occur fast or slow.

feed and be fed upon

>> No.7739980

Yet there is a distinct difference between structures being able to be robust up to a certain level to interference from it's surroundings and structures like in Conway's GoL in which such structures lose their integrity with the littlest of interference: a single block can utterly destroy something, yet a single atom at rest in the real world would do nothing at all to a complex structure. Also, you speak of energy, but where would this energy be in the GoL? As it does not matter how fast something moves, only where it is (neglecting the phases of structures which often have to be synced to do something useful) at a certain iteration of the simulation. Or would you argue the GoL has a universal speed limit of 1 square lateral and sqrt(2) blocks diagonal, per second?

>> No.7739985
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ok forget the fast or slow part, it was not properly phrased

it only depends on the position of the blocks in the structure and the rules given to check

in GoL it checks only it's 8 neighbours and it does that simultaniously on the same array

So I would argue that GoL has a universal speed limit of 1 square lateral and sqrt(2) blocks diagonal, per generation.

it's up to us which intervalls we give the generations thats the beautiful thing.

>> No.7739988

Software is made out of matter because electrons need to flow through an integrated circuit for that software to exist in the first place.

>> No.7739993


Not true at all. Software is independent of how you choose to represent it.

Is math made of chalk because I work out problems on a blackboard?

>> No.7739994

Does an abstract mathematical object have mass/energy or momentum?

>> No.7739996

Bad analogy. You can read out the source code to software but that does not make it a program.
>the accomulator woke up one day and loaded with #05. Next she transferred to the X-register.
And nothing happens. Just like eating the menu will never be a substitue for eating food.

>> No.7739999

If that has knowledge there is a corresponding lowering of local entropy associated with it and thus an energy level. This represents the absolute minimum of power consumption in computing. Being on /sci/ I hope it is superfluous to explain how it is related to mass.

>> No.7740004
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there are only finite compounds to materialize logic with, so what the fuck are you talking about? you cant make a circuit board out of gummibears and chocolate.

and math is not 'made', it is 'thought of.'

you get a timeout

>> No.7740018

define: soft·ware
noun: software

the programs and other operating information used by a computer.

You're thinking of algorithms mate. Software cannot exist without computers.

>> No.7740028

And if it later turns out to be inconsistent the 'mass' of the concept magically changes?

>> No.7740118

Considering the software needs to be stored either on a hard disk drive or in RAM, yes it is made of atoms.

>> No.7740135

Yes. Everything you've ever seen, used, or done, so far, can be reasonably described physically. Software on your hard disk works with a reader converting magnetic domains into regular pulses of square waves. Those magnetic domains are particle states.

You could take a bunch of rocks and lay them out in a regular spacing in a field (a literal field, like grass and pasture and such) representing the 1's and 0's, then read it from a satellite, and run that as an executable. It really doesn't matter, it's reading the same general physical thing.

Likewise, your own thoughts in progress are chemical and electrical changes. The idea that thought is necessarily immaterial is misguided. Dualism can't be truly reconciled, and it's up to you where you think it all comes from, but it isn't correct to ignore the things we can deduce.

>> No.7740141


/sci/ making progress

>> No.7740253

>we are entering a new age
which was subsequently called The Age of Delusion, where people believed that a cat is both dead and alive, that models were physical causes and a novel ink and paper.

>> No.7740283

This is a terrible time to be alive.

>> No.7740325

>you cant make a circuit board out of gummibears and chocolate

Yes you can. You can make a computers out of wooden gears or bamboo pipes full of lemonade or even a living anthill. It's difficult and pointless but you could do it. And you could run the same software on those shitty computers too.

>> No.7740327

>and math is not 'made', it is 'thought of.'

That's the point, retard.

>> No.7740350
File: 772 KB, 1372x912, cpu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Wouldn't it be electrons since CPUs use charge to create binary code?

>> No.7740419

and then that "software" is still matter

deal with it

>> No.7740421

>copy software
>new electrons created to make new copy of software
>infinite electrons
>free energy discovered

>> No.7740650
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>your face when you need only a couple hundred qubits to simulate all electrons in the universe

>> No.7740669

Software is intangible, like "life."

It only exists in a running system.

>> No.7740679


No, the wooden tubes and gummy bears and shit is matter. The software is information.

deal with it

>> No.7740685

See told you aliums built the pyramids..

Ya just got to plug them in somewhere

>> No.7740703

Information is a property that describes the organization of matter. The fact that something is organized doesn't make it not matter. This is like looking at three cups and saying that they are three and not cups.

>> No.7740734
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>your face when you realize that simulation would include the computer running the simulation itself, ad infinitum

>> No.7740744

Information is entropy, which is a measure of energy, and therefore has mass.

>> No.7740753


>Information is not physical

I once spent two years as a production scheduler in a factory, which typically had less than 24 hours' worth of some one critical part, and a mis-judgement on setting up the next 24 hours would shut everything down, downstream. Therefore it was constantly necessary to take a sight-count of parts (with periodic spot checking of the quality of the parts themselves) to ensure that production could continue. We did not have a worthwhile MRP process when I came into this role; all I had was my knowledge of the customer base and what the finished goods had to look like, from which I could backtrack the rest.

Information is physical.

>> No.7740861

It is made out of different energy levels or magnetic configurations.

>> No.7740870

The code that you write (as in literally write to a disk) is physical.

>> No.7740885

>Information is entropy
Some information measures are entropies
>entropy, which is a measure of energy
You may be thinking of enthalpy

>> No.7741812

This is literally Jaden Smith: The Thread

>> No.7741878


So you agree that math is made of chalk, then.

>> No.7741905

>Information is a property that describes the organization of matter.

It certainly can be, yes. But that doesn't make it matter.

>The fact that something is organized doesn't make it not matter.

What a silly straw man.

>This is like looking at three cups and saying that they are three and not cups.

Not at all. But what you're doing is saying the number three is made of cups.

>> No.7743061

Electrons….which are particles within a atom.

>> No.7743065

Well it is "more of" an Atom thing considering anything electrical involves electrons which can only be found in an Atom.

>> No.7743073
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computer software is made of binary data, which is represented as the charge confinement in Solid-state electronics.

t.Alberto Barbosa

>> No.7743086
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>> No.7743822

Is it possible to create particles out of this energy by colliding informations?

>> No.7744029


u betcha ass there is and it's called light


>> No.7744031

Memory is physical, therefore information is physical.

>> No.7744038

a lot of fags here failed basic physics. Information is physical. That was the meat of the Hawking V Susskind debate for the last forty years. You can't create nor destroy information as well. Hawking finally admitted it ten years ago. Light can "create" new information but its just manifesting what already there.

>> No.7744048

>electrons which can only be found in an Atom.