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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7630584 No.7630584 [Reply] [Original]

Lets talk about statistics from payscale.com

Mathematician
45k - 135k

Computer Scientist:
51k - 129k

EE:
51k - 106k

NukE:
59k - 129k

CivE:
46k - 93k
MechE:
49k - 95k

ChemE:
51k - 123k

I think that's enough.
>Where were you when you realized that the poor mathematician meme was a lie
>Where were you when you realized that mathematicians earn more money and pussy than you do?

>> No.7630609
File: 111 KB, 264x216, HUEHUEHUEHUE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7630609

>>7630584

>mfw I have to take 4 classes per semester.
>mfw engineers have to take up to 7 classes per semester
>mfw they could do just fine with only the theoretical classes and a supervised laboratory every month to teach them the pactical applications.
>mfw the reason they take such a hearvy courseload is to increase the amount of people who will drop out so that their own market does not get too saturated.

>> No.7630613

I think you meant
>Mathematician
>300k starting

>> No.7630694

>>7630613
As much as I love that meme (because it is appropiate. Just replace "300k" with "more than you"), I would not use it in an argument.

Fighting memes with memes is useless. Nobody wins. Unlike engineers, I work with real data to make a point.

>> No.7630698

>>7630584

> choosing your profession based on +/-10k a year

>> No.7630727

>>7630698
>completely missing the point

The only reason I am pointing out salary instead of simply job satisfaction (which, btw, was very high) is because a lot of people in /sci/, mostly engineers, like to shit on everyone who is not studying engineering because they will supposedly find no jobs other than Mc Donald's at minimum wage.

I just took the time and effort to make a thread all about how full of shit engineers are.

>> No.7631027
File: 291 KB, 1868x942, it_ends_now.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7631027

pic related

I think that's enough as it was already settled in the final battle thread. You must be new.

>> No.7631036

>>7631027
>promoting your samefag posts
kill yourself, even though youre right on some points

>> No.7631037

>>7631027
Oh, I remember that thread. It was just a few days ago.

And I remember that it was not a "final battle" but instead a circle jerk of engineers pretending to be winning.

Indeed, the thread was all engineers and maybe one or two people defending points for pure sciences.

If I remember correctly, for every post done by a pure scientist there would be 10 - 20 replies by different engineers all claiming to be superior using the same argument over and over, even those that were already debunked.

Yeah, it was settled. Just like a match between 100 armed soldiers vs 2 ants can be easily settled.

>Most people on the opposite camp were too smart to take the bait
>Just shit on the people coming with opposing arguments with insults instead of data or reasoning
>Yup guyz, we defnyteli won that one amirite xD

>> No.7631038
File: 41 KB, 265x442, final_battle1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7631038

>>7631036
not samefag posts. you're clearly new if you didn't see that thread

>> No.7631040
File: 87 KB, 1296x517, AHAHAHA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7631040

>>7631037
lol mad that you lost, I see

the engineers were actually posting statistics and sutdies supporting their facts while you guys just kept throwing ad-hominem crap because you had nothing to say back. we all saw it. you're not fooling anyone that isn't new.

>> No.7631043

>>7631027

Software development / software engineering is STEM and is attainable with math or physics, and it's what some EE students are aiming at (CS is in engineering departments at some schools, it is considered science at others)

Other than that it's pretty accurate.

>> No.7631045

>>7631027
If you participated in the thread, you lost.

>> No.7631047

>>7630584
> engineers
> guys who want pussy
Pick one.

>> No.7631048

>>7631043
>that's what some EE students are aiming at
>software development
>software engineering
You have no idea what you're talking about, huh?

>> No.7631049

>>7631037
The saddest of all are those retards who think "hurr durr durr my undergrad is better hurrrr" and don't understand that science and engineering go hand in hand, cannot have the one without the other. Pretentious freshmen, the lot of 'em. I bet most of those tards are autistic irl and their only gratification in life comes from bragging about their undergrad (LOL) on imageboards.

>> No.7631051

>>7631040
Why do you lie about this? Do you think you can get away with it just because I was not bothered enough to take pics of my posts too?

You are like that guy who does one spike in ssb4 and feels like they have to save the replay even though you won that match and have been winning each one before and after.

People were posting a survey from berkeley and data from payscale.com to combat your points. Showing that people in science degrees were earning as much as you and sometimes even more.

You can never trust engineers, man. They will lie their way to the top. I wonder why they didn't become politicians.

>> No.7631052

>>7631045
>he's mad days later
lol

>> No.7631053

>>7631038
You clearly have down syndrome if you think I know every fucking thread that gets posted on here.

>> No.7631054

>>7631051
>people were posting
>implying it wasn't you

Yeah, and we had maybe 10 guys replying explaining why you're an idiot. You aren't allowed to just ignore that. This is why nobody takes you sort of people seriously.

>> No.7631058

>>7631040
yeah we even had anons from /biz/ watching who congratulated the engineers. how hilarious that these no job autists are still ass blasted

>> No.7631065

>>7631027
Just how bad is it to be an engineering technologist? Seems like they learn some basic bitch math/physics and then just have a good time with design work and hands-on stuff.

>> No.7631067

>>7631054
As I said before, I did post there. But I remember I was not the only one.

And yes, I remember the 10 guys explaining why I'm an idiot.

That is why I said that instead of showing actual facts, most engineers were just throwing insults and memes around like it was /b/.

Very few valid points were made against my posts and I did a big post answering in short sentences all of them. The rest of "hurr durr u r n i-deot" I just ignored.

But you know, maybe you could remind me why I'm an idiot?
Hard mode: Do it without just calling me an idiot, doing some green text and posting a meme.
Insane mode: Do it in a calm manner, like if you were a psychologically stable human being.

>> No.7631069

>>7631065
Are you going to ask me this without knowing what they actually do and how they differ from an actual engineer?

>> No.7631070

>>7631058
>/biz/
>valuable advice
Did you buy dogecoins yet?

>> No.7631073

>>7631049
>implying you can't have science without engineering

Lmao more like engineering needs science. Engineering is the direct result of applying science. Science doesn't need engineering, though it would be kind of stupid to have all the science with no application of it. Doesn't mean its necessary.

>> No.7631075

>>7631067

>>7621438

Unlike you, engineers actually post the facts as I will post the actual thread right to your face for everyone to see because I'm not going to waste my time holding your hand and explain why you're a nutter.

>> No.7631081

>>7631075
For fucks sake.
Okay then, I will post the facts too:

https://career.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/Survey/2014Math.pdf
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Mathematician/Salary

Those were my facts back then and they remain my facts here because literally everyone ignored them and just kept pretending like I had posted some fake statistics or something.

>> No.7631082
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7631082

This assumes that a mathematician has actually found a job.

>> No.7631084

>>7631081
yeah no, the battle is over. you read the thread YOURSELF and get you memory back.

>> No.7631088

>>7631082
http://www.mathscareers.org.uk/article/who-employs-mathematicians/

And our assumption is correct. Now what huh? Was your only point to make a random remark that actually has no value because it is wrong?

>This is the kind of logical talent that engineering schools puke out.

>> No.7631089

>>7631084
>Avoiding the argument

It is like you know that you are wrong.

But don't worry. I know that you know that you are wrong.
You know why?
Because I know that you are wrong.

>> No.7631092

>>7631088
The guy you're talking to is more likely to be a random troll or a sophomore upset at his math TA because he's failing his calc sequence than someone who actually finished an engineering degree, anon.

>> No.7631097

>>7630584
Meanwhile

>licensed aeronautical maintenance engineer with no degree 100k+, upwards of 200k with decent type ratings/skin bay work

Fucking academia plebs

>> No.7631100

>>7631089
I'm not going to reply to your bait after this post. Just because you're lazy, as all science/maths students are, doesn't mean that I have to carry you. Read the thread, because nobody is going to spoon-feed you again.

>> No.7631107

>>7631088
>Interesting work
>High salary
Choose one.

>> No.7631111

>>7631100
>more excuses

I was in that thread. I know what was said. Very few of it was actually convincing or even well put out. I don't need to read it again.

But let me see if I got it.
Instead of coming to 4chan to start a new discussion, where new points can be made, new data can be shown and more people to give their grain of salt, you come to 4chan just to post a thread that has already died?

What the hell? Why?
I mean, this attitude of
>Oh well, it all was decided back in that thread so why even talk about it you know
looks pretty lazy. What is even the point of coming here if you don't even want to post?

>> No.7631112

>>7630584
>all these poorfags making under 60k

What the actual fuck? I live in Bumfuck, Midwest, and I would count as average here.

>> No.7631119

>>7631107
I think that at least for mathematics interesting work bring in a high salary.

I mean, think of the most uninteresting work you could get as a math graduate. The answer is obviously high school teacher. Your pay here is abismal.

Then think of cryptography, algorithms, data analyst, etc. Those pay way more and are way more interesting.

>> No.7631126

>>7630584
First...
> did PhD
> made low end of that
> hated life
Then...
> went into trades
> make about double the highest number in there
> work 150 days/year
> job and life satisfaction through the roof

On the down side, I had to work last night instead of going to a Hallowe'en party. On the up side, I cleared well over a thousand dollars in that one shift.

School is for suckers. Wish I'd figured it out a decade earlier.

>> No.7631129

>>7631126
Sure that happened, pal. Tell me, what was that PhD in?

>> No.7631134

>>7631097
Why are you even here if you hate math and science so much? Go back to your ugly wife and kids and go plan your next holiday in the Grand Canyons.

Some of us will actually make contributions to human knowledge.

>> No.7631137

What do mathematicians do in private sector?

>> No.7631143

>>7631137
You can check out this link for that:
http://www.math.uh.edu/~tomforde/Web/Jobs.html

It has a nice list of "Jobs in industry or the private sector"

And before some people have brought the point that this may be biased because it is a math advertising itself, in a way. However, if you care enough you can dig deeper on all of the points in the list and confirm that in fact, there are math graduates in these positions.

>> No.7631145

>>7631027
>Job postings for engineers are exclusive to engineering graduates
This isn't true in my experience. I'm graduating with a B.S. in Mech E soon, and I've been looking at jobs exclusively in the space industry. Probably a majority of the job listings I've seen accept applicants with degrees in Physics or Math, and sometimes even STEM degrees in general, in addition to a few different disciplines of engineering. Also, they often throw in an "or related degree" clause to the qualifications. Sure, someone with an engineering degree that is highly relevant to the position will have an advantage, but that doesn't mean an ambitious Physics major who happens to have some relevant experience can't be just as qualified for the job.

>> No.7631146

>>7631137
Depends on the industry

>> No.7631151

>>7631134
Oh, I do research and publish in my spare time. In fact, I've published more since I abandoned academia, because I have far more time for it. No teaching, no administration, no marking and dealing with whiny bitch students... it's great.

>>7631129
Molecular dynamics. Not that that will prove anything to you. But my current research is mostly in combinatorics.

>> No.7631177

>>7630584
You're not taking into account the immense amount of time and effort it takes to learn triple integrals to get to the high-end of that payscale.

>> No.7631184

>>7631177
Actually, it does.
Time it takes to reach the higher end of your salary:

Mathematician: 20 years

Computer Scientist: 10 years (but after these 10 years it stays the same. Check the graph for yourself, it is quite interesting)

Mechanical Engineer: 20 years

Electrical Engineer: 20 years

It is all roughly the same.

>> No.7631186

>>7630584
>>pussy
>>earned

>> No.7631197

>>7630584
WHY THE FUCK IS THERE NO MEDICAL SCIENCE YOU FAGGOT?

>> No.7631260
File: 26 KB, 457x480, 1433301237008.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7631260

>>7631184

>> No.7631265

>>7630584
>mfw pure math graduate
>mfw I can get a job in almost any field
Feels good to be mastterace

>> No.7631272

>>7631058
>/biz/
>Home to the pyramid schemers
Kek, those guys are shit and don't know anything about investing or business in general.

>> No.7631280

Man, why do you guys always focus on the monetary value of your fields instead of just enjoying what you study?

>> No.7631284

>yfw the tradesmen make more than the engineers
Let that sink in, faggots. Tradesmen often make more than engineers. Especially the highly skilled trades.

>> No.7631309

>>7630584
An Electrical Engineer earns an average salary of $70,675 per year. Most people move on to other jobs if they have more than 20 years' experience in this career. Experience has a moderate effect on pay for this job.
>most people move onto other jobs if they have more than 20 years experience
>senior EE makes between 76k and 135k

>> No.7631310

Use this instead retards

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_tx.htm#15-0000

>> No.7631311

>>7631184
lol engineers are in their mid career when they reach 30

>> No.7631314
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7631314

Could a third worlder land a job in the US with an EE degree?
What about a Mechatronics degree?

>> No.7631320

>>7631309
>average
Anon, you know why I am writing this.

>> No.7631321

>>7631311
Technically five years after college. Ten year is considered senior. Twenty years is considered lead senior.

>> No.7631330
File: 37 KB, 600x300, The-Observable-Universe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7631330

>>7630584
>EE
>max106k

my dad makes 140 and is an ee -____-

>> No.7631335

>>7630584
>ChemE:
>51k - 123k

but that's wrong

start an underground drug lab

500k starting

>> No.7631344

If you actually enjoy what you're studying you wouldn't really care about its uppermost wage ceiling no? If you want to be smart and make money just get smart at making money, otherwise the STEM field you've chosen should satisfy you regardless of what people around you are making.

>> No.7631352

>>7631330
106K is top 10 percent of EE. There are a few above 106k, by few I mean less than 1%.

>> No.7631354

>>7631344
>enjoy what you're studying

ayy

have fun with your self-delusion or degree in creative writing

>> No.7631355

>>7631184
I don't think you realize how short engineers actually work as engineers before moving into management. Most are in management or are team leads by 30. You really don't know what you're going on about.

>> No.7631358

>>7631352
You're all such goofs. I was making 110K at 28 at IBM. I currently make about 250K a year in engineering management. I already talked about this in another thread.

>> No.7631365

>>7631358
>engineering management.
>OP posted engineers salary
I think you need to really think hard about why I wrote this.

>> No.7631370

>>7631354
Explain? I'm deadset on Engineering and I have had the opportunity to meet acquaintances in different careers and their wages vary greatly. Most of them went into it because that was what they wanted to do while some were in it just for the money only. I could pick something less rigorous than engineering and still make money equal to an engineer

>> No.7631374

>>7631365
Engineers are engineering management, anon. You need to stop posting.

>> No.7631381

ChemE is wrong
>low starting: 39k (dafuq)
>high starting: 150k

>> No.7631382

>>7631374
facepalm. You're not an engineer anymore. You become a project manager. You don't do anything remotely that's engineering. Engineering management is always an PM, or MBA. Becoming an EM means your salary increases way above engineers. You are no longer an engineer.

>> No.7631405

>>7631284
I'm still waiting on proof of this meme.

>> No.7631409

>>7631382
Engineering management is the natural career path for an engineer, though. Engineering managers are almost always senior engineers. It's also slightly misleading to say you don't do any engineering work as an engineering manager. You're still overseeing and directing projects, you just don't do the grunt work, like drawing shit up in SolidWorks or chugging through calculations (which is mostly MATLAB now anyway lol).

>> No.7631461

>>7631405
It varies greatly but you can make upwards of 200k going way up north in Canada
Also Diving and Underwater welders can rake in tons of money but the dangers of the work and the certs required to become one scare most people off. Welders usually go on contracts, my friend's dad goes on them for ~2 months and earns 100k+ and the rest of the year is spent working in another job or finding the next contract

>> No.7631477

>>7631355
sounds boring as fuck

>> No.7631484

>>7631405
its called union wages numbnuts. look up how much union Lineman make per hour. then factor in that alot of them work at night (double time) and put in 55+ hours a week.

my old foreman broke 225k$ easy.

>> No.7631779
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7631779

>Medicinal chemist
>41k -130k

>the upper end gets paid literally 3x as much as the lower end

D-do I still have hope guys? How stiff is competition? I just wanna keep fucking around in a lab and then testing my compounds. Why is they're such a huge range?

>> No.7631815
File: 52 KB, 500x500, 1441633237865.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7631815

>>7631040
>thinking a sample size of 18 proves anything

>> No.7631816

>>7631126
What trades did you go into?

>> No.7631949

>>7631051
>You can never trust engineers, man. They will lie their way to the top.

is this a meme or are you really this autistic

>> No.7631963

>>7631081
>sample size 34
>software engineers
well done, but you realise they're being emplyed because they can write code, not because of they can do maths?

Really stupid example.

>http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Mathematician/Salary
there are about ten jobs available as mathematicians every year. it was shown in the previous thread that it has one of the lowest employment rates every year.

see here for stats about this:
>https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43061.pdf

Your post is full of delusion and you're a retard. I'm not going to start that whole thread again just so you can lie to yourself that you're going find employment as a mathematician rather than a code monkey.

>> No.7631973
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7631973

>>7631963
>Table 16. S&E Occupations with the Fewest Projected Job Openings, 2012-2022
>Mathematicians 170
>170 jobs divided between every mathematics graduate in the USA

>> No.7631977

according to your statistics, they also earn the least amount of starting money.

>> No.7631993

>>7631963
>you realise they're being emplyed because they can write code, not because of they can do maths?
Once again, only half truths.
Think about this:
When a software company has an open position and starts getting curriculums from candidates how do you think the numbers look like?
Lets say something like
20 Computer Scientists, 1 Physicist and 1 Mathematician

The CS is a dedicated code monkey, he should do better at code monkeying right? But then why do the mathematicians get hired? Why would an employer looking only for code monkeys hire a mathematician? The answer is they don't.

As one anon from /g/ once said a few months ago:
"Computer Scientists at google are working on user interfaces, mantaining ads, youtube, gmail, etc. Mathematicians at google are working on cryptography, search algorithms, algorithm optimization, research, etc."

>there are about ten jobs available as mathematicians every year.
Lets show how much of a lie this is, shall we?

Your own data shows this:
Mathematical Occupations: 120,560
That is relatively very few, I will admit. But have you read the data that I have been posting?

Basically, it says that there are math graduates working on those "computer occupations" and "engineer occupations". Something I even showed in the "final battle" thread by showing a job posting of a company that said that a degree in mathematics was enough qualification.

That means that a portion of the 3 million computer occupations are open for mathematicians. Lets be conservative and assume that just very few of them really need mathematicians. Something like one third of them.
That is 1 million jobs more.

Lets assume the same for engineering positions.
That is 500000 jobs more.

So there are approximately 1.6 million jobs for mathematicians in industry.
With 7% of those jobs exclusively looking for mathematicians. And the rest 93% heavily encouraged to accept mathematicians.

>> No.7632007
File: 46 KB, 583x382, unem.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7632007

>>7631963
Look at what I found in pic related

There is a higher rate of unemployment in engineering than in mathematical occupations.

Furthermore. Table 2, which is below this graph shows that mathematical occupations have 1.3% unemployment.

What percentage does engineering have?
3.3% unemployment.

Your own data shows that you are full of shit. What now?

>> No.7632142
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7632142

More data from the engineer's own source that proves them wrong.

Mathematical occupations have very low unemployment rate compared to engineering occupations. The only exception was 2011 and we can see that it quickly fixed itself in just a year.

>Where were you when engineers got BTFO?

>> No.7632159

>>7631049
Good example of an adult who graduated

>>7631073
And good example of a moron

>> No.7632418

>>7631058
Anon, /biz/ knows about as much about Business and Finance as /sci/ knows about Science and Math. They somehow manage to have more degree dickwaving threads than this place does.
>>7631280
Because this is /sci/ where if you can't prove that you're on average going to make more money with your undergrad degree that you don't even have yet than a bunch of other guys that don't have their degrees either, then your life is a complete waste of time.

>> No.7632750

Out of all the majors engineering has the highest starting average.

>> No.7632761

>>7631382
>You're not an engineer anymore.
uh yes you are. engineering is legally defined. the title is tied to the degree.

>> No.7632774

>>7631045
This desu.

>> No.7632784

>>7631065
>Just how bad is it to be an engineering technologist?

Eng Tech is a DeVry tier degree.

>> No.7633190

>>7632750
implying a spinal surgeon doesnt gain 400k average...