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/sci/ - Science & Math


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7628639 No.7628639[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Why did it go out of fashion to relate skull shape to predict intelligence?


I mean a sharper mind obviously needs a larger brain which obviously needs a larger skull.

>> No.7628643

its not the brain size, its how complex it is. dolphins have slightly bigger brains than humans but I doubt they are more intelligent than us.

>> No.7628644

>>7628639
because it's bullshit and you're a fucking idiot

>> No.7628646

>>7628644
Don't worry my black friend, I will not genocide you.

>> No.7628649

>>7628643
In humans, brain size is actually correlated with performance of cognitive tests

>> No.7628652

>>7628639
It's still used in forensic anthropology. It never went "out of fashion" in real science, only in political "science".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_anthropology#Determination_of_ancestry
>Determination of ancestry
>The determination of an individual's ancestry is typically grouped into three historical groups, Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid. However, the use of these classifications is becoming much harder as the rate of interracial marriages increases and markers become less defined.[33] By measuring distances between landmarks on the skull as well as the size and shape of specific bones anthropologists can use a series of equations to estimate ancestry. Typically, the maxilla is used to help anthropologists determine an individual's ancestry due to the three basic shapes, hyperbolic, parabolic, and rounded, belonging to the three historical ancestries, Negroid, Caucasoid, and Mongoloid respectively.[34] In addition to the maxilla, the zygomatic arch and the nasal opening have been used to narrow down possible ancestry.[35] A program called FORDISC has been created that will calculate the most likely ancestry using complex mathematical formulas.[36] This program is continually updated with new information from known individuals to maintain a database of current populations and their respective measurements.

>> No.7628653

>>7628643
Are we sure there are no super high thoughts going on inside those dolphins?

>> No.7628655

>>7628644
>>>/pol/

>> No.7628660

>>7628643
You can use skulls to predict race and race is strongly correlated with IQ. Therefore you can use the same equations to estimate the probabilistic IQ of an individual based on his skull.

>> No.7628661

>>7628652
very interesting

>> No.7628662
File: 69 KB, 504x431, comp_brain_size[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7628662

>>7628653
well considering they aren't as evolved as much as we did, I'd say larger brain size wouldn't indicate intelligence.

>> No.7628667

>>7628652
>real science says skull shapes still matter
>post wikipedia.
Read anything about Forensic Anthropology and you'll find out they don't believe in it. They haven't in over 100 years. The skull shapes you says that are found in "negroids" are found in "caucasoid". Also if you read anything beside /pol/ literature then you would know no one uses "caucasoid", "negroids", or other pejorative terms for "race". It simply refers to the region they're from, not another planet. You just outed yourself as fucking moron.

>> No.7628670

because we can see inside the skull now. You need be creative to deny what appears on an MRI

>> No.7628674

>>7628667
It's an estimate that has valuable insight you negroid.

No one does Lorentz transforms on a first estimate designing bridges.

>> No.7628675

>>7628670
Given that OP is from /pol/ he will deny it. /pol/ is an intellectual blackhole.

>> No.7628678

>>7628667
what? are you trying to say there are no physical differences between the various human subgroups?

>> No.7628682

>>7628674
>It's an estimate
>red herring to engineering
Ladies and gentlemen the average /pol/tard.
Its no estimate. WE FUCKING KNOW WHAT GOES ON BEYOND THE SKULL. Numbnuts. You're spewing bunk science that hasn't existed in the peer-review science for over 100 years.

>> No.7628684

>>7628643
but within a species the size matters.

>> No.7628685

>>7628678
You'er going to say blacks are more muscular, asian have tiny peepee, whites are smarter, injuns are dumb. I know where you're going with this. You're just spewing bullshit from /pol/. The height difference is due to environmental effects.

>> No.7628688

>>7628682

Why are you so butthurt? Do you feel the accuracy empirical models relating race and skull shape impacts you personally? Do you feel the IQ-race correlations makes you less of human being because of your race? Why do you get emotional over statistical analysis?

>> No.7628689

>>7628682
>Mad

You're a sad guy.

>> No.7628690
File: 84 KB, 697x409, 11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7628690

>>7628662
But look at the denseness o dem dolphin brain folds.
Also sci please disregard the racism in pic related and tell me if the source is legit. I really do believe on average asians are the IQ masterace followed by whites and blacks. Am i wrong?

>> No.7628693

>>7628639
Does the smaller brain size explain the lower SAT scores and lower IQs and higher crime statistics for african-americans ? Can that be the reason why they are globally worse than the other races or is it something else ?

>> No.7628695

>>7628675
I was actually speaking of egalitarians who couldn't tell you the implications of a smaller frontal lobe

>> No.7628696

>>7628682
>hasn't existed in the peer-review science for over 100 years.

>"Anthropological Views". National Institute of Health. June 5, 2014. Retrieved August 20, 2015.
>2014
Pfft.

>> No.7628697

>>7628689
He's literally giving no citations.

He is obviously not from /sci/, he is either from reddit or /pol/ and obviously not mature enough for this discussion. Just ignore him.

>> No.7628707

>>7628697
>>7628696
http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp202-us13/files/2012/05/Sauer-1992-Forensic-Anthropology-Race-Concept-1.pdf
/pol/ always misinterprets this.

>> No.7628708

>>7628667
>Read anything about Forensic Anthropology and you'll find out they don't believe in it.

Oh, really? Here's an actual text written by a professor in the field:

>http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/1_0CombinedArticles.htm
>Measuring human physical characteristics-anthropometry-was the main research activity of the first anthropologists early in the 1800s. A major focus for the early anthropometrists was the skull. Cranial capacity, jaw structure, the angle of the brow, and other criteria were analyzed in great detail. Although the focus and application of physical anthropology have changed from its early days, anthropometry remains a useful research tool for paleontologists engaged in the search for the origins of the humans species. Variations in skeletal shape and bone structure are vital clues to our prehistoric roots.
>Some obvious traits are skin color, body size, and eye color. Less obvious, but more easy to quantify are biochemical traits such as blood type and genetic differences.

>anthropometry remains a useful research tool for paleontologists engaged in the search for the origins of the humans species.
>remains a useful research tool for paleontologists

Now take your unscientific bullshit to /pol/leftypol/ then kill yourself. Just don't come back to /sci/ until you are older than 18 and can learn to stop arguing with emotion.

>> No.7628709

>>7628682
Is that because no peers would commit career suicide by reviewing such material?
Society never affects science though right?
But a new, long-term analysis of SAT scores has found that, among applicants to the University of California's campuses, race and ethnicity have become stronger predictors of SAT scores than family income and parental education levels.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/27/study-finds-race-growing-explanatory-factor-sat-scores-california

>> No.7628716

>>7628709
Interesting, but not surprising, a study published earlier this year also finds inherent genes play a much larger role to academic performance than environment.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150723/srep11713/full/srep11713.html
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jul/23/genes-influence-academic-ability-across-all-subjects-latest-study-shows

>> No.7628721

>>7628708
Really though Hitler ruined any talk about race with his final solution shit. You start talking about measuring faces and shit people think nazi. Even if there was overwhelming evidence for different traits among the races it should never be used to justify murder and discrimination.

>> No.7628723

It's not the size of the brain but the compactness of the brain folds.

>> No.7628724

>>7628709
>Is that because no peers would commit career suicide by reviewing such material?

That's not how peer review works you nigger. Peers don't choose what they review.

>> No.7628729

>>7628724
it's no better than lysenkoism when you politicize topic of research.

>> No.7628730

>>7628639

Ofcourse race and genetics is related to intelligence. How do you expect every race on earth to develop the exact same brain capacity or intelligence ?
Why is it even surprising to anyone ?

>> No.7628731

>>7628729
That's not related to what I posted.

>> No.7628736

>>7628730
Because the average IQ is always 100. Someone is always smarter or dumber.

>> No.7628737

>>7628730
Because to even speak it brands you. You can talk about this shit on 4chan sure. But what would happen if Richard Dawkins expounded on this topic at some convention? My guess is no single mainstream organization would ever acknowledge him again.

>> No.7628740

>>7628721
>You start talking about measuring faces and shit people think nazi.
Only normies do. I discuss race with academics all the time, including colleagues from other races.

>> No.7628745

>>7628736
average IQ of what ?
>>7628737
I mean sure. It's the same saving face thing with "everyone is a winner" when it comes to not offending the other people. But it doesn't change the fact that there is an actual winner, and a 2nd place, and a 3rd place as well as a last place. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to insult people with it but facts are facts.

>> No.7628746

>>7628649
Correlation =/= Causation

>> No.7628748

>>7628740
I really got to start doing that whole life thing. College step #1. I am missing out on way to many things. I come on /sci/ because i love the thing. But really i got no right to be posting on here yet. Great shame.

>> No.7628749

>>7628740
Talking to yourself does not mean talking to others. You need to go back to /x/. The only people who care about this topic are /pol and /x/. Everyone in science doesn't care. Even the anthropologists. They have other pressing matters. Race, ethnicity, and nationality doesn't correlate to anything. /pol/ has this cognitive bias about the subject matter.

>> No.7628756

To pol, this is the field of the study you're talking about.
>phrenology
Which is a bunk science. Leave it /pol/ to show their stupidity yet again on /sci/.

>> No.7628759

>>7628749
But when you got so much racial tension going on in America and the world don't you need to start from a position of truth before anything can get better? There must be a way to be honest about race in a way that will ease all this shit around the world without leading to another holocaust.

>> No.7628760

>>7628749
you keep referring /sci/ to /pol/ like it means anything to anyone. A scientific fact not being politically correct is not a factor to dismiss it. We are not equal. Some of us are smarter than others which is only natural. Evolution doesn't treat every race the same way.

>> No.7628762

>>7628749
Doctors would earn oblivion by malpractice lawsuits if your dogma was abided by.
There are incredibly relevant implications here.

>> No.7628766

>>7628759
The subject matter on race was bunked back in the middle of the 20th century. Genetic research shows we're literally all the same with just a few minor difference due to our ancestor environment. The term black, Aboriginal etc refers to the name given by some guy or the area they found them in. Right now the out of Africa of theory is the only agreed upon origin of homo-sapiens. That is your race, homo-sapien.

>> No.7628771

>>7628766
go away lamarck

>> No.7628772

Because brain structure matters a lot more than volume. In fact, surface area is more important than volume since it allows for more connections.

>> No.7628773

>>7628766
> Genetic research shows we're literally all the same
> literally
> all the same
Are you religious or something ? Is it one of those "god created all men equal" bullshit again ?

>> No.7628778

>>7628749
Actually my Nigerian friend cares very much about this topic because he cares about his people's development and agrees with Watson that it should take a different approach to Western models if it wants the same or better prosperity.

>> No.7628783

>>7628766
Yes that all geologically distributed peoples can produce offspring with each other makes that obvious. But would you agree that even though dogs have one common ancestor the variety of traits including intelligence among different breeds is obvious?
I'll stop posting now.

>> No.7628784

>>7628760
>A scientific fact not being politically correct is not a factor to dismiss it. We are not equal.
Most men are equal in strength and intelligence. Women are smart as men, but physically weaker due to generations of breeding with women who can bear children but not boxes so to speak.
>Evolution doesn't treat every race the same way.
Evolution is selective? Were you high or absent in your evolution lecture of biology? Evolution is completely random.

>> No.7628792

>>7628778
>Nigeria
A country known for scamming and ethno-religious tensions. Your friends want to know so he can justify his hatred toward another ethnic group within Nigeria.

>> No.7628793

>>7628784
>Women are smart as men
>Neuroscientists have found an intrinsic biological difference between males and females in the molecular regulation of synapses in the hippocampus
http://www.psypost.org/2015/08/sex-does-matter-key-molecular-process-in-brain-is-different-in-males-and-females-36611

>due to generations of breeding with women who can bear children but not boxes so to speak.
It's ok, you can use the word "genetics". You are not on a liberal arts campus filled with irrational fuckwits.

>> No.7628794

>>7628760
>Evolution doesn't treat any race in any way.
FTFY
now Lrn2evolution

>> No.7628795

>>7628792
and brain drain he's a good patriot

>> No.7628796

>>7628793
why are you so angry

>> No.7628798
File: 13 KB, 480x360, 0[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7628798

>>7628784

> Evolution is random selection.

Here, educate yourself from an evolutionary biologist my science illiterate friend. Richard Dawkins talks about how evolutionary is non-random selection.

You are literally like his religious opponent who thinks "God created all men equal"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTHZxozpnm4

>> No.7628799

>>7628792
My friend is smarter than you and has published more than you ever will. I doubt he will care about your racist insistence on babying him by denial of scientific consensus on the topic.

>> No.7628802

>>7628793
>It's ok, you can use the word "genetics"
Its disingenuous in this contexts. Its vague in other words. Women and men have obvious differnece no one is denying that. But women and men are almost equal in intelligence. I say almost. There is a slight difference due to generations of breeding with women who can't write or allowed to read. This is a social phenomenon not genetic.

>> No.7628805

>>7628792
Now it is devolving into /pol/ talk. You don't know any of that shit applies to who he speaks of.

>> No.7628807

>>7628796
Angry? I'm actually sitting here smiling at how gullible you are. We were all kids once who didn't know more than the current political flavour put into our high-school textbooks.

I don't blame you for your ignorance any more than I would a fish not being able to fly.

>> No.7628811

>>7628802
Sure, but also I don't know why you brought up women, this thread isn't about sex.

>> No.7628814

>>7628802
bollocks. The women bell curve is narrower and skewed to the mean. This is why there is an under-representation not any SPOOKY SCARY SKELETON-boogeyman

>> No.7628815

>>7628798
Dawkins always says evolution is random. This is what they mean when they say natural selection. Human mate whit human but the outcome what the child will become is random. So are the genes the child will pass on.
>>7628799
>He has published more than you have
I doubt it because I published quite a few articles.

>> No.7628820

>>7628805
>western model
His friend literally said that. That how you know he's not a real academic.

>> No.7628824

>>7628815
> Dawkins always says evolution is random.
> He literally explains how evolution is non-random

This is as much logic and intent to learn you can expect from a typical redditor. Stop polluting this board with your evolution denying opinions and go back to your shithole please.

>> No.7628825

>>7628662
Probably some of the most unscientific shit I have ever heard.
OP is talking about human brains.
You come along trying to disprove a point OP hasn't even made by talking about one other random animal, out of the millions of animal species on Earth. Even if you were to step up your game and compare a few different animals and get some sort of trend going, you are still completely forgetting the brain:body ratio. Even if you compared brain size and brain:body ratio for a whole bunch of random animals, its still irrelevant because we are talking about human brains.
That said I think you would be hard pressed to find such a trend in the animal kingdom, I am going say that brain size and/or brain:body ratio does positively correlate with intelligence generally.

>> No.7628831

>>7628824
>>7628815
>>7628798
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13698-evolution-myths-evolution-is-random/
Holy fuck you guys are both right. Now end it.

>> No.7628833

>>7628675
Sorry but this is just too much when the topic is about racial differences.

M8 this is an anonymous website, no one knows who you are. You don't have to be afraid to admit there are obvious differences between the races. Its all there for you and I to see with our own eyes.
Just admit it. See how good and relieving it feels to speak the obvious truth.

>> No.7628836

>>7628820
I don't think their is anything wrong with a culture trying to find their own way rather than play catch up to a different system.

>> No.7628840

>>7628836
Well Nigeria has about 100 different ethnic groups. So I understand where he is coming from. Its quite common of folk from countries with a plethora of ethnic groups.

>> No.7628847

>>7628667
>Read anything about Forensic Anthropology and you'll find out they don't believe in it. They haven't in over 100 years. The skull shapes you says that are found in "negroids" are found in "caucasoid". Also if you read anything beside /pol/ literature then you would know no one uses "caucasoid", "negroids", or other pejorative terms for "race". It simply refers to the region they're from, not another planet.
Absolutely none of what you posted is true.

>> No.7628849

>>7628847
He's right, /pol/. The "race" terms are used by government for social effects. Not scientific. They're used for classification and record keeping. There is a PDF posted on this thread about this matter.

>> No.7628853

>>7628766
I have to assume you have never met an Australian Aboriginal, have you?
They are probably one of the best living examples of the differences between races. They are diametrically opposite to Anglo Saxons in so many ways, to deny it is symptomatic of extreme ideological bias.

>> No.7628864
File: 149 KB, 696x378, black irish.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7628864

>>7628639

It would explain a lot, yeah.

>> No.7628872

>>7628836
You bring up a very good point.
I think in these types of conversations the left leaning participants don't see that such things could ever have serious implications. I mean the only people who worry about it are crazy racists from /pol//.
But this idea that everyone is equal goes into making fundamental policy and shapes the way we look at the world.
The same people see incomprehensible problems in Africa and think, 'all we need to do is do what we did in the West and everything should be better'. And we have tried to do it, charities and groups like the UN are particularly guilty. Of course it doesn't work and you actually end up hurting people more then if you did nothing.
Best example would be South Africa. Blacks inherited a fully functioning nation with impeccable infrastructure and everything a Western peoples could ever need. Take a look at South Africa now, it speaks for itself.

Go ahead tho guys, live your life under the assumption that everyone is equal. Worst thing that can happen is some niggers in Africa get their lives destroyed because of your misguided interventionist policies.

>> No.7628915

>>7628872
do-gooders don't understand they pave hell

>> No.7629066

>>7628639
>>>/his/
Anthropology belongs on /his/

>> No.7629068

>>7628652
>>7628667
>>7628696
>>7628707
>>7628708
>>7628749
>>7628847
Anthropology belongs on /his/

>> No.7629104

>>7628660
the problem isn't that you can't, its that you aren't allowed to.

>> No.7629177
File: 36 KB, 500x376, reagan-mobutu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7629177

>>7628872
>Worst thing that can happen is some niggers in Africa get their lives destroyed because of your misguided interventionist policies.

>>7628915
>do-gooders don't understand they pave hell

I know you guys aren't very bright -- You come from pol after all -- but really.

>> No.7629184
File: 145 KB, 1049x929, Templeton_1999_AA_Fig1_Fst_for_humans_mammals_compared.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7629184

>>7628773
>Are you religious or something ? Is it one of those "god created all men equal" bullshit again ?

The main problem with human diversity theories is that humans are just not very diverse.

>> No.7629190

>>7629177
> evolution denier thinks some people are not so bright
the irony senpai

>> No.7629198

>>7629184
>1998
Got anything more recent? A thing called the Human Genome Project happened after that.

>> No.7629224
File: 26 KB, 811x603, Chromosome_Numbers_in_Different_Species.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7629224

>>7629198

Unless humans somehow gained a couple dozen chromosomes in the meantime, I remain doubtful.

>> No.7629240

>>7629224
Whats your point with posting the amount of chromosomes in mammals ?

>> No.7629284

>>7628690
Yes you are wrong.

I also would take the arbitrary claims in this picture with the same authenticity as a tumblr post that uses dumb logical fallacys or some dumb rant on fb about Muslims and halal taxes.

>> No.7629332

>>7628639
Like many obvious hypotheses, it turns out to have little or no relation to the actual world in terms of predictive power.

>> No.7629346

>>7629332
It's not a refutation against the studies that shows there are

>> No.7629365

Reminder that the only way to rid /sci/ of these stormfronting poltards is to ignore and hide their shit threads.

>> No.7629371

>>7629365
stay in reddit you schizophrenic retard

>> No.7629393

Hi sci

med student here, inb4 doctors are just 'human health technicians' with no real scientific formation.. i know, it's true, no one understands disease theoretically anyway, we just know some of what works and doesn't through trial, error and accident

anyway, im caucasian, evidence suggests asians are the master race, im okay with that, im married to a caucasian, we're still useful and euro-colonial civilization is pretty advanced

dont get so mad guys

>> No.7629413

>>7629393
>it's true, no one understands disease theoretically anyway
Are you retarded? What the fuck do think people who study physiology and pathology do?

Just because most doctors don't practice medicine based on evidence doesn't mean no one is in research.

>> No.7629419

>>7629413
>doctors don't practice medicine based on evidence
wat

>> No.7629422

>>7628639
Whales have massive brains but they're dumb as fuck.

>> No.7629446

>>7629422
Thats because brain size doesnt matter, its how the brain is structured that determines intelligence however the skull shape of blacks indicate a diminish frontal lobe which explains why most of them are so stupid.

>> No.7629474

>>7629422
>but they're dumb as fuck

CITATION FUCKING REQUIRED
maybe we just aren't smurt enough to understand then

>> No.7629487

>>7629284
But it is true. Stats say it all. Blacks are less intelligent than whites. Muslims are idiots who only know how to fuck goats and kill each other. It's not even prejudice, looking at merely Nobel prize winners we can see they have contributed close to no shit to science.

inb4 Nobel prize is lame
inb4 /pol/

>> No.7629548

>>7629524
Yeah I was going to ask how intelligent the woman in the screenshot actually is

>> No.7629500

>>7629487
You're just giving the worse examples and attributing them to the whole population. Yes intelligence-wise black people achieve less than white people, yes there are muslims who does that and shit, but by generalizing everyone into a single adjective you are discounting the individual value of these people. You can find black people in universities much smarter than the rednecks in louisiana. You can find decent hard working muslims everywhere but they don't show up on televisions unless they create a bad example.
So sure, you can talk about statistics, but "blacks are dumber than whites" and "muslims are goatfuckers" is .factually wrong.

>> No.7629503
File: 80 KB, 500x501, 1439348835277.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7629503

>>7629487
>Muslims are idiots who only know how to fuck goats and kill each other.
>It's not even prejudice

Oh right, I see how establishing a claim which generalizes a population isn't judging an individual before you interact with them.

>> No.7629524

>>7628639
>That pic
Gwen Ifill is twice the journalist Scott Pelley is, nigger memes aside.

>> No.7629535

>>7628709
"Geiser considers several possible explanations for the increasing impact of race and other socioeconomic factors in predicting SAT scores. One that he takes seriously is the possibility that links growing rates of "intense segregation" in high schools, with more minority students attending high schools that are overwhelmingly minority and poorly resourced. For instance, the percentage of what researchers call "apartheid" schools -- those where 99-100 percent of students are nonwhite -- has doubled in the last two decades, and now represents one in 14 high schools. So the impact of race and class are, in many cases, combined for the minority students attending those schools."

Your own source goes against the racist bullshit you're spewing.