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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7591430 No.7591430 [Reply] [Original]

Fact: Classical musicians are better respected than scientists. Beethoven, Bach, Mozart inspire way more awe than say Newton or Euler.

What gives? Would you say learning an instrument is harder than undergrad math?

>> No.7591434

> Fact: Classical musicians are better respected than scientists. Beethoven, Bach, Mozart inspire way more awe than say Newton or Euler.
If this is a fact then it shouldn't be hard for you to post citations :^)

>> No.7591450

got deaf got blind got mute
that time only medicine was poop is true

>> No.7591452

>>7591430
That's an opinion and I think its also a matter of opinion which ones harder.

Why is everything a competition with autists? Its like you never grow out of the "my dad could beat up your dad" phase.

Music is not "better" than math, math is not "better" than music. They're different things.

>> No.7591479
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7591479

>>7591430
Learning an instrument is pretty hard. Also, we study science not for the respect from someone else
Anyway, it's not just the old days. People like Justin Bieber or Taylor Swift are all being worshiped a hell lot today to, if you are comparing them with scientists.
The point is, Beethoven, Bach and Mozart are the Justin Bieber of the old time.
I still like Bach a lot though.

>> No.7591509

the issue is that any musician can make it big "alone" and thus gain fame.Science has changed from experimenting in solitary mansions to global community effort. Nobody will make a breakthrough in science alone.

>> No.7591557

>>7591509
Great musicians also flourished from a stimulating and innovative environment, they didn't make it big "alone".

>> No.7591715

>>7591430
And how is that surprising? Since when do normies prefer math over music?

>> No.7591738

>>7591430

I'm definitely not going to say learning an instrument isn't hard. I'm still utter shit at piano after having this keyboard for over a year.

What I think IS the case is that it's much easier to appreciate music than it is to appreciate math. Most people don't have any idea how complex and deep music can really be, but they can appreciate it at a lower level because it's just pleasant to listen to. Far fewer can do the same thing for mathematics.

>> No.7592113

>>7591452
b-but anon, where do I derive my self worth from if not arbitrarily drawing a line which puts me in the upper portion?
I already tried my 6'2 alpha genes, my pure aryan blood, my patrician status, my pure math, and so on

>> No.7592136

>>7591430
>Would you say learning an instrument is harder than undergrad math?
It depends of what your definition of learning and instrument is.
I play the violin and study math in college. It takes a few years being able to play properly, but I wouldn't say it's harder than math. Now, truly learning the instrument takes far more effort and time that mathematics, at least the double assuming you start as a child, three or four times more if you start as an adult since the violin is not the most intuitive instrument and I often find that adults have "hard" hands an arms - not very flexible and some of them make me thing they never will be able to play proficiently.

But it definitely depends on the instrument. Classical instruments are hard because there is a very precise and refined technique that you have to learn or you will not be able to do even basic stuff (say for example left arm and left hand position, which places incorrectly would make you unable to switch from first two second and third position fast, unable to do vibrato without shaking the violin, unable to even have a decent tune since you would have to adopt a new hand position for each string, etc.)

>> No.7592160

Harder? Certainly no harder than studying any hard science.

What's with your correlating of difficulty and fame?

>> No.7593061

>>7591430
>Would you say learning an instrument is harder than undergrad math?
Learning it or creating it?
Learning undergrad maths is a hundred times easier.

>> No.7593069

>>7591430
learning an instrument is relatively easy, learning to compose competently is hard and composing symphonies for full orchestra takes some insane knowledge, imagination, and ear for the complex interplay between notes, instruments and tone

>> No.7593096

Anyone can listen to music and feel its full force.
Not everyone can look at Calculus and understand the full meaning of what it is.

>> No.7593680

>>7591479
>The point is, Beethoven, Bach and Mozart are the Justin Bieber of the old time.

kill yourself pls

>> No.7593682

>>7591479
Lol beethoven = biebs. Well trolled my friend

>> No.7593869

>>7591479
>The point is, Beethoven, Bach and Mozart are the Justin Bieber of the old time.

well b8ed my friend :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRDcgjvjj2E

>> No.7593872

>>7591479
>Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart are the Bieber of the past
Kill yourself.

>> No.7593875

>>7593096
>Anyone can listen to music and feel its full force.
>implying normies know what modulation or sonata form is
>implying normies can appreciate anything but the thinnest surface of the music they listen to

>calculus
underageb&

>> No.7593890

>>7591430
>What gives? Would you say learning an instrument is harder than undergrad math?
Because respect doesn't derive from an object measure of hard work you put in.

Besides, I don't even know if learning to compose or play music on that level is heasier than undergrad math, and I bet neither does 99% of this board.

>> No.7593892

>>7591430
>What gives? Would you say learning an instrument is harder than undergrad math?
Hey hey, double cello performance/pure math major.

Music requires a larger time investment, but the work is mainly busy work. You typically decide on a performance direction and work to make that a reality. It's a lot of leg work.

I work on my math classes maybe a total of 7 hours a week, but it's more mentally intense. No busy work at all, just a few questions per week aimed at having you understand deep and often complex concepts (currently taking a commutative algebra course using Eisenbud and a differential topology course using Lee).

It's like comparing apples and oranges, and if you compare math program and music school dropout rates, they're pretty similar at my university.

>Beethoven, Bach, Mozart inspire way more awe than say Newton or Euler.
First off, pleb/10 examples of composers. I'd say, in terms of outreach, classical music has inspired more people. I'd say that math can be every bit as beautiful, exciting, emotive, mysterious and psychedelic as music, with the benefit of math also potentially being more profound, counter-intuitive and rewarding, but it takes a lot more work to appreciate it. I can listen to Ein Heldenleben in under an hour, but it may take years to study and understand the Jordan Curve theorem.

>> No.7593895

>>7593096
>>7593875
Autism Wars: The Saga.

>> No.7593962

>>7593892
>performance
"lel"
We're talking about composers kiddo. Performers are to composers what technicians are to scientists.

>> No.7593998

Beethoven, Bach and Mozart were COMPOSERS, not just musicians, you tard.

It's about equally as hard to write a great piece of music as it is to come up with a new discovery in math or science.

>> No.7594035

>>7593892
>pleb/10 examples of composers
Not him, but I'm a music babby that listens a lot to Bach and always thought it was pretty good. Why do you consider him a pleb composer? Could you suggest me someone who's similar in style and flow, but better overall, so I could see it for myself?

>> No.7594066

>>7594035
Bach is by pretty much all measures one of the greatest classical and non-classical musicians and coposers. Calling him pleb is just petty elitism and obscurism.

>> No.7594069

>>7594066
Any other similar composers? I think he's music flows well, most classical music I listen to sounds too "breaky", if this makes any sense.

>> No.7594095

>>7594066
>>7594069
I wasn't calling the composers pleb, just the choice of the particular composers mentioned. He could have used a lot more interesting examples.

>>7593962
Read the OP before posting.

>> No.7594102

>>7594095
>lot more interesting examples
Can you post some? I'm not an expert on the matter.

>> No.7594119

>>7594102
I mean, more interesting examples of composers, or composers that sound like Bach?

If you like contrapuntal music, even though it's an entirely different historical period and style, you should look at Flemish school composers (Ockghem, Josquin, Obrecht and others).
Music is a lot more interesting on both sides of the common practice era.

>> No.7594122

I think musical talent is innate, not learned. They're basically savants. Also the OP is an opinion. To me, Newton inspires more awe than an autistic old man on a piano.

tl;dr fuck art, it isn't special

>> No.7594135

It's because people can understand music much better than they can understand mathematics. Both mathematics and music are difficult and require a lot of intelligence, but the difference is that people can listen to a classical piece and appreciate its complexity and beauty without knowing a lot about music theory, but it takes a lot of time and dedication to learn to appreciate the beauty of mathematics.

Also, playing an instrument is definitely not harder than undergraduate mathematics. I'm pretty good at guitar, but learning to play guitar doesn't really require much thought. Actually writing music, though, is a different story.

>> No.7594136

>>7594119
>composers that sound like Bach
This.
Music that "flows", if that makes any sense. I'm not a music guy.

>> No.7594138

>>7594122
>tl;dr fuck art, it isn't special
And people wonder why /sci/ is considered pleb central

>> No.7594144

>>7594138
Ok, special probably wasn't the right word. I appreciate it and it is special, but so is the bearded lady at the circus.