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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7589818 No.7589818 [Reply] [Original]

What's the point of trying to contribute to science or maths if Terence Tao or any of the other geniuses could look at what you're doing, start working on your field, and make huge advances that supersede yours, and do this within weeks of starting in comparison with your years of work?

You don't have to start contemplating the end of the universe or your eventual death before you can think about your worthlessness - the more grounded reason is right there in picrelated.

>> No.7589823

>>7589818
> What is the point of doing anything that you're not the best at?

Welp, sounds like you've got life figured out OP. You'd better get out of here and gargle buckshot before it turns out you're not the absolute best at that either!

>> No.7589827

>>7589823
this tbh.

>> No.7589829

>>7589818
Because you enjoy it. Literally everything that can be discovered will be. If Einstein gave up someone else would have figured out relativity eventually. It just would have taken a bit longer.

>> No.7589839

op confirmed for permavirgin highschooler

>> No.7589889

>>7589818
Imagine you had a jigsaw puzzle and some asshole dumped the pieces out randomly on a table and threw the box out before you got to look at the finished picture.

So you don't know what it's supposed to look like but you start trying to solve it anyways, flipping over pieces, separating edge/corner pieces, maybe grouping them by color (like these are all blue maybe its a sky I'll put them together).

This is kind of what humanities search for knowledge is like I think. We make lots of observations but none of us really know how its all supposed to fit together in the end. Observations are kinda like flipping over pieces or grouping them by similar characteristics.

Every once in a while though someone comes along and says "hey those blue pieces you have there are part of river and they go together like this!" And so a big piece of the puzzle gets solved and our knowledge increases. These people are your Einstein's and your Issac Newton's.

So yea super geniuses tend to make the big discoveries that tie things together but that doesn't mean the contributions of other people are worthless.

Some people say science is about standing on the shoulders of giants but I think its more like midgets standing on midgets and some midgets just happen to be a little taller than others.

>> No.7589917
File: 17 KB, 250x238, 1443754031014.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7589917

ultimately, there is no objective purpose to anything

>> No.7589927

>>7589818
When you grow up you don't care as much about being a famous scientist or make history as you care about having a fulfilling career and life in general.

>> No.7589948

>>7589818
>Terrance Tao as a kid
>"Whats the point of being a mathematician if there is already so many good ones"
you dumbass

>> No.7589983

>>7589818
You should do mathematics/science because you enjoy doing it rather than because you enjoy the prestige of doing it.

>> No.7590049
File: 62 KB, 500x359, anti-cuck.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7590049

Because these superstar IQ behemoths are fallible human beings. They all make fools of themselves once stepping outside of their field of discipline. It takes a wise man to admit he knows nothing, which is something Stephen Hawking should consider.

>> No.7590084

>>7589948
>Terence Tao as a kid
>11 or so
>Already earning medals at the IMO
>"Man. Since all these other competitors that I'm beating, already the best mathematics students in the world, are four to eight years older than I am, I must suck some major dick."

>> No.7590087

>>7590049
Hawking is doing some dangus stuff these days, but what can you expect? Just look at him. He clearly has downs.

>> No.7590151

>>7589818
I'm pursuing my PhD and I struggle with this every day. Maybe someone with more life experience can share how they deal with this.

>> No.7590154

>>7589818
>What's the point of trying to contribute to science or maths if Terence Tao or any of the other geniuses could look at what you're doing, start working on your field, and make huge advances that supersede yours, and do this within weeks of starting in comparison with your years of work?

That's like asking why you need regular footsoldiers in a war just because you have a handful of heroes.

Individuals can't be everywhere and do everything all at once.

>> No.7590161

>>7590151
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.

We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.

There are only two mistakes one can make along the road; not going all the way, and not starting.


Become a buddhist or forever wallow in the tears of your unenlightenment

There is the confidence of "If I ask that girl out, she will say yes". That is many religions; they make promises of "if you do this, you will be this"

Buddhism is "If I ask that girl out, I will be okay no matter what she says". If you internalize that sort of confidence, it feels tremendous and makes you incredibly powerful

>> No.7590186

>>7590161
how can one become a buddhist?

>> No.7590191
File: 89 KB, 515x348, Paul_Erdos_with_Terence_Tao.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7590191

>>7589818
Here's what Terence Tao would say in response to your question:
https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to-be-a-genius-to-do-maths/

>> No.7590192

>>7590186
follow the noble 8 fold path.

>> No.7590384

>>7589889
>So yea super geniuses tend to make the big discoveries that tie things together but that doesn't mean the contributions of other people are worthless.
Most of the important stuff isn't done by supergeniuses either.

>> No.7590392

>>7589823

This is correct

if you're not in the top 1% you should do a service to mankind and off yourself

>> No.7590396

>>7590384
True. I shouldn't have said super genius.

But basically I'm just trying to say that you don't have to come up with something as big as relativity to make a worthwhile contribution to science and people could never make big leaps like that if we didn't take lots of little steps first.

>> No.7590422

>>7590392
Come now, that's a bit harsh. He can perform menial labor. Perhaps his woman can bear a one-percenter's child.

>> No.7590468

>>7590422
>Traditional relationships
>2015

Fuck that shit. Go for the gold OP.

>> No.7590484

>>7590151
I'm also an ABD. I just stopped giving a shit about contributing to my field or actually having other people care about my research.

>> No.7590498

>>7590191
>https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to-be-a-genius-to-do-maths/

Holy shit, /sci/ just got BTFO

>> No.7590520

>>7590498
No, there's definitely a minimum intelligence threshold necessary to even get into a good enough math grad program that can get you tenure-track placements. But sure, for anyone with 140+ IQ, research ability has little to do with any intelligence above that level. Tao was the youngest ever IMO contestant by the way.

>> No.7591165

>>7590151
I obviously don't know you or why you started your PhD in the first place. But are you certain you are happy with it?
Personally I enjoy coming to the lab every day, I feel extremely fulfilled when I manage to get good results once in a blue moon, and I absolutely love how I keep learning new things every day. I also love planning and thinking about my results, trying to put them in context.
I didn't start working here to get recognition or glory anyway, so I don't mind that maybe other researchers are more capable than me or will make bigger discoveries. If anything, that just gives me more interestign things to learn.

>> No.7591168

>>7589889
Except you don't know if the pieces actually make a picture and if you have all of them.

>> No.7591170

>>7591165
>I enjoy being an insignificant lab rat

>> No.7591173

>>7590084
this tbh

>> No.7591175

>>7591170
I am happy with my work and feel it contributes to people's lives very directly. Other people possibly contributing more doesn't make me enjoy it any less or be less happy or proud about it.

>> No.7591176

>>7589818
>not finding the most obscure field possible so you're guaranteed to be the world authority

smh

>> No.7591181
File: 115 KB, 294x346, 1444018815199.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7591181

It's the
>what's the point if there's always a bigger fish
thread again

>> No.7591196

>>7591181
if someone is 2 or 3 orders of magnitude more productive than you at acedemia and you want to move your field forward why not just quit and make a high salary so that you can fund them to do it, instead of competing for the same limited resources?

Nothing wrong with the bigger fish argument, just leave all the faculty places to the most highly prodigious and fund them instead of competing with them. THat'd be best m8.

>> No.7591203

>>7590161
>Buddhism is "If I ask that girl out, I will be okay no matter what she says"
Thanks for this post tbh. I only came here today to look for Emma Stone guy's thread but this made my day a bit better, too.

>> No.7591222
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7591222

>What's the point of serving as a sergeant in the military if generals could literally do your job ten times better?

>> No.7591241
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7591241

>>7589889
Also, dude, midgets is not the preferred nomenclature. Little people, please?

>> No.7591250

>>7591196
Maybe people fucking like doing what they do. This has nothing to do with productivity.

>> No.7591272

>>7591222
what's the point of being a sergeant if you can be more effective in the workforce of your country?

>> No.7591286
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7591286

reading biographies of the most famous mathematicans and scientists, most don't seem happy tbh

Some Chad leads the better live. If you like math, I'd go for a mix of the two instead of being the best at some silly mind game.

>> No.7591444

>>7591250
Now now mate no need to swear I'd say, only opinion.

>> No.7591496

>>7591241
That is fucking BULLSHIT. I can't think of a more demeaning thing to be called than a "little person." It makes them sound like puppies. "Who's a wittle person? Yes you are! Yes you aaare!"

"Midget" sounds tough.

>> No.7591556

>>7590392
1% of what? 1% of the population is what, like, a 2200 SAT or some shit

Lol

>> No.7591564
File: 70 KB, 600x355, bruce-lee-flow-motivation-picture-quote.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7591564

>>7590186
Read about it and call yourself one

IMO doctrine is fairly superfluous. I'm not a monk and although I have the path memorized and think about it often, the extent of my actual practice is occasional meditation and reading many koans.

>> No.7592511

>>7589818
> talking about mathematics
> mentions meme professor Terrance 'Terry' Tao

>> No.7592577

>>7589818
If you start an investigation someone may see your work and take a different approach than you did and it works the other way around, it's not about personal achievements it's about contribute to science

>> No.7592653

>>7592577
get a load of this fag

>> No.7592665

There is no other job that I like.

>> No.7592670

Tao is a genius, no doubt.

But the vast majority of his work will never result in anything useful to mankind.

>> No.7592677

>>7589818
>Tao
I'm smarter than that gook anyhow so sucks to bea pleb-tier faggot like you faggot

>> No.7592682

>>7589818
Tao actually posted about this on his blog. The reason is simply because there aren't many Terry Taos out there and math is fucking enormous. No matter how smart someone is they can't possibly be studying everything in math so the more people studying it the better. It's all about finding some niche that you can work on while others go do other stuff.

>> No.7592701

>>7592665
This is the reason for me. I would be perfectly happy to be a full professor by 30 at a top 20 university, I don't need to be tao. Tell me what it takes to live my dream /sci

Math/Physics double major btw

>> No.7592718

>>7592701
I'm not sure man. I'm just finishing my masters and am hoping to get into a phd program somewhere. All I want is a peaceful life where I can study the things that interest me and discuss ideas with people who have the same interests. I don't need a lot of money I just don't want to be forced to spend my time doing something I hate in order to live.

>> No.7592815
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7592815

Us humans, we work as a pack, as a tribe. Every little discovery increases our knowledge and is openly shared, as a species we all grow together. If discoveries were only made by the super genius then we wouldn't be where we are today.
Even if your discoveries pale in comparison to some others you can feel happy knowing some of your time was spent contributing to humanity, which is a lot more than can be said for some people. A single man can come up with an idea, but it can take an army of people to build, create and impliment

>> No.7592829

>>7589818
>What's the point of trying to contribute to science or maths if Terence Tao or any of the other geniuses could look at what you're doing, start working on your field, and make huge advances that supersede yours, and do this within weeks of starting in comparison with your years of work?
Those fields are huge. There is no genius alive today that we know of that can possible advance the entire field and leave nothing to do with everyone else. Just find an area that nobody else really does and advance that area.

>> No.7592841

For enjoyment maybe? To earn a living? You don't have to be a genius to make big contributions anyway.

>> No.7593295

Well obviously theres nothing you can do to really compete with those people. You might as well race a jet plane with a horse.

It's not your fault that they're better than you. Some people are just born smarter than others in the same way some are born short and some are born tall. You had nothing to do with it, it was just random chance.

Tao was given a fucking warp drive by chance when he was born, and you got a busted up Chevy like everyone else. Would it even make sense to race him? There's nothing to compare. It wouldn't even make sense to try, so don't. He doesn't necessarily deserve it, but he has it anyway so that's the end of it.

Just accept who you are. The media always tells stories about extraordinary people and nothing but extraordinary people. We see it movies, television, games. It's like that line in Fight Club, the one about us being promised to become rock stars and gods and getting pissed when we find out we're not going to become near any of those things.

The truth is a vast majority of people are mediocre anyway, but being extraordinary isn't exactly necessary to have a fulfilling life. Just do what you enjoy doing and accept whatever result comes from it. It's not worth it to sacrifice your entire life to compete with people who are much stronger than you and to force the situation that you are just as good if not better than them.

Terence Tao is a god. Like other gods, he has his believers, those who pressure him with their expectations, hopes and prayers. If Tao ever quits mathematics, the world will announce him as a failure and wasted asset. But you have been given the privilege to walk this earth as a common man, a mere mortal free from the expectations of everyone. Whatever you do, your name will be lost to history and you will neither be loved or hated.

So do whatever it is you like to do and enjoy. Nothing here really matters too much - life is a dream and you are its transient trespasser.

>> No.7593311
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7593311

>>7593295
>Tao was given a fucking warp drive by chance when he was born, and you got a busted up Chevy like everyone else.
made me kek for some reason

good post anon, good post overall.

>> No.7593615
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7593615

>>7593295
Well said

>> No.7593625

>>7592718
Same.
I don't want to solve difficult problems either, most of the things that interest me have nothing to do with the big questions, and I don't mind it at all.

>> No.7593724
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7593724

maybe I'm just a bitterfag but I doubt the mental difference between a normal phd and somone like Terence Tao is all that great. Tweak a few variables in his life (not genetics) and he's just a normal middle class guy who doesn't even think he has a knack for math other than knowing he did well in his business calculus class without studying.

Not that this means you'll ever be as good as him, you won't be. Just like you won't ever be an olympic athlete because while you were watching cartoons before school they were swimming laps.

>> No.7593886

>>7590161
>Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.
>Become a buddhist

>Do not seek satisfaction from anything external
>Follow this external ideology and it will satisfy you
kek

>> No.7593894

>>7591175
>I am happy because the shoes I make in this dark damp factory contribute to people's lives very directly
>I am happy because the burgers I flip in this kitchen contribute to people's lives very directly
kek, you've internalized your slavery

>> No.7593952
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7593952

>>7593894
Tbh the only way to avoid it is to never be happy

>it's worked for me so far

>> No.7594080

I think the simple truth is that it’s hard to love something that doesn’t seem to love you back.

>> No.7595605

>>7593894
Only I work in medical research, rather than flipping burgers, so I can actually see my work helping people.

>> No.7595882

>>7593886
It's not about practicing buddhism, it's about realising that chasing external values leads to a never ending rat race where you'll never be happy with what you have.
No matter how far you may come in life you can always ask yourself "Is that all? Can I get more?"
If you don't like buddhism, try stoicism.

>> No.7595900

>>7589818
Think of a way to lobotomize Terrence Tao in a car crash.

>> No.7595924

>>7589818
The field is too large for a handful of mathematical powerhouses like Tao to dominate everything. If you are that obsessed with making a name for yourself then treat it like a business: find a niche.

>> No.7596126

>>7595900

Lol imagine someone doing this.

>> No.7596938

>>7590161
> talking about Buddism
> uses it to ask girl out

jesus fucking americans, bastardizing and utilizing every thing to their favour. But if you seek a girls company, you're not ready for Buddism anyways.

>> No.7597334

No matter where you are, there will always be people ahead of you in the food chain. This guy may be amazing at math, but he probably sucks at other facets of life, especially social ones.

>> No.7597382

I want to be a mathematician. But I was never really a genius in high school, I'm 18 now and just finished high school. I've got one sabbatical year because I'm taking a test for the MEXT scholarship for japan next year, to either go study math or engineering. I've gone to the IMO last year but I didn't even complete a single problem, and I felt like shit because a kid 3 years younger than me (from my country) won a bronze medal. So basically my question is, do you have any book recommendations to study math and physics by myself? I don't really like engineering but it's the only thing my parents will let me do, but deep down I really want to study pure math.

>> No.7597454

>>7589818
Your conclusions are based uppon a flawed way of thinking.
This isnt a race where there are many runners but only one winner.
If anything, math is a thousand races with only a hundred runners.
As of now (well 2003) there are over 3000 different subdomains in mathematics.
In each of those there are many specialization.
Trust me, there is a place for everyone in math.
No genious, no matter how smart can over all fields, or even a significant minority of them.
Its simply not possible because their days also have only 24 hours.

>> No.7597469

>>7589818
why dont u just work on some obscure problem nobody cares about? how many people do you know that are working on the riemann hypothesis?

>> No.7597476

>>7597382
this guy can walk in a room at any science faculty in any university in the world and people will swarm to him

do you have that kind of power over any rooms of people?

>> No.7597485

>>7597334

>But muh social life!

Sad.

>> No.7597617

>>7597476
By this guy you mean the little kid who got the bronze medal?

>> No.7597658

>>7589818
well terry tao has autism

and i don't

so there's that i've got that going for me

>> No.7597676

>>7589818

there can't be one guy to solve every problem. there are too many concurrent problems to solve.

>> No.7597678

still no solution to the Beal Conjecture...far as I know the reward is still offered.

>> No.7597691

>>7589889
>all about midgets
I understand but please take responsibility of my boner now.

>> No.7597710

>>7590161
>Buddhism

The mindset it promotes does not give you anything remarkable, you could basically use self help books and get the same results.

>One should not measure their own intelligence based on their academic achievements but rather how happy one is

I choose to feel like shit everyday. It's an algorithm with an infinite loop

>You´re stupid because you can understand X
>Now you've achieved X yet can´t understand Y
>Z Is still smarter than you

Add self hate, feelings of no worth. This leads me to study like mad.

Hate can achieve better things than love

>> No.7597753
File: 20 KB, 300x315, newton.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7597753

>>7597485
>huur duur you must be a virgeen thuts why you don't like social gatherings
>huur you might be smurt but you can't talk to girls

I always tell them about someone who died a virgin

>> No.7597776

>>7597334
Yeah social intelligence is really important guise! It's a legit type of intelligence!

>> No.7597780

>>7597776
>ikr these nerds somehow feel superior because they are better at school

>> No.7598633

>>7597710
I can attest to that. Spite is a beautiful thing.

>> No.7598637

>>7589818
Reminder that you are a MAN before you are a mathematician. Just become masculine enough that you could easily cuck Tao and you'll stop giving a fuck.

>> No.7598645

>>7598637
So then your only worth is having sex with unfaithful spouses.

>> No.7598662

>>7598645
No, but why would you feel inferior to a man who you could cuck?

>> No.7598664

Just about everyone in academia deals with this at some point. I also used to be the brilliant math genius in my high school, my undergrad, and to a lesser extent in my Master's cohort. I took my first grad-level courses when I was eighteen. Then reality hit me when I started a PhD and was only mediocre. If I'm lucky enough to get a tenure track job, I'll probably be at the bottom of the academic totem pole, publishing work that nobody reads so I can get tenure and finally relax.

My identity is still centered around success so it's still hard for me to come to terms with not being the best. The only thing that's helped is to just start enjoying research for the freedom of thought it gives instead of caring about how the field perceives my work.

>>7598637
Doubtful. Wives in academia know who the top dogs in the field are.

>> No.7598676

>>7598664
>Doubtful. Wives in academia know who the top dogs in the field are.
Lol that shit doesn't matter. if you got 25mil in assets and arms bigger than some guy's waist, you think a chick is going to get mad that you don't have a prestigious enough math publication? lmao

>> No.7598694

>>7598676
Academics' wives are all bottom barrel anyway, that's why they care about petty things like academic reputation because their husbands don't offer them anything more, it's not something you want to cuck to begin with.

>> No.7598705

>>7598676
Yeah, they would. Guys like Tao would have plenty of opportunities to make millions a year in industry if they wanted.

Did you fail your Calculus I class or something? You're awfully bitter about academics for an undergrad or high school kid.

>> No.7598721

>>7598705
>Guys like Tao would have plenty of opportunities to make millions a year in industry if they wanted.
Yea, this is bullshit, no one is going to pay him that much just because he's autistic. He has no marketable skills outside technical. He will never make as much as football coaches.

>> No.7598738
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7598738

The thing for me is that I don't even compare myself to geniuses. I am worse than the average student. I struggle at an average college while thousands of people graduate from top 10 universities each year. There are tons of people that genuinly enjoy what they study, are intelligent and have connections thanks to their social skills. How the fuck am I supposed to compete with them when my head is always hurting, I always feel tired, it takes me several times longer to come to solutions and I am a socially awkard guy that can't talk to people.

But I can't find enjoyment in some office job. I don't want to work just to come home and watch TV and play video games. I want to have knowledge to create something. But at the same time I have no intrinsic motivation and no talent for anything.

>> No.7598768

>>7589818
>what's the point of putting a nail into a wall if john over there can put 1.7 nails into the wall in the same time?

the house gets finished faster, anon. even if john is really, really good around a hammer.

>> No.7598776

>>7598721
The guy already makes more than most football coaches.
http://ucpay.globl.org/index.php?name=terence+tao&s=gross

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tao
Plus his awards alone have paid several million dollars.

also lol if you think the NSA wouldn't pay one of the most brilliant mathematicians alive a few million a year to work in their cryptography department, or if some algo hedge fund wouldn't do the same

>> No.7598787

>>7598768
It makes sense but isn't it cruel if one is fully aware of how replacable one is? That despite experiencing life from your perspective you are not the main character but just an extra? That you are predestined to merely watch others achieve great things while you will never achieve anything of worth? Guess it's time to read some Stoic books to cope with this.

>> No.7598806

>>7598787
then achieve greatness on your own phagg0t

>> No.7598810

>>7598787
there's a solution.

git gud

>> No.7598813

>>7592718
The funny thing about science is that the PhD programs are almost all the same in every university that offers one. You guys all use the same equipment. You have to write a proposal to use said equipment. Astronomers have to use the keck telescope, but its government owned I believe. The whole point of science is to further the knowledge of the environment around us. This is why some scientists are depressed because they choose ego over science.

>> No.7598814

>>7598787
>isn't it cruel if one is fully aware of how replacable one is?

start a thread about "weltschmerz" or something on a philosophy board, then. we are over 7 fucking billion now, of course everyone is replaceable. tesla could have been aborted and someone else would have made the same inventions some time later.
deal with it.

>That you are predestined to merely watch others achieve great things

that is the nature of a world in which you have the capability of observing almost everything. a more optimistic person would be euphoric (inb4 fedora pics) about all the possibilities this brings and not its competition-factor.

seeing only "perfect competition"/"perfect envy" when you're being presented with "perfect information" reaks of low self-esteem. virtually all generations before you would have blushed and teared up at the sight of the possibilities avaible to you. stop whining about the fact that these possibilities also make you witness the success of others.

you are the fucking starchild in 2001, you are what was being discussed by wasted hippies 40 years ago: a human being that talks to a robot voice, and that robot voice makes perfectly summarized information about any inquiry available to him via a magic, glowing rectangle.

your own great-grandfather would have thought of the stuff you use in your daily life as "some kind of magic", and all you do is whine about how your magic glowing rectangle also shows you the success of fellow human beings.

yes, i am envious of people like terence tao, too. i wish i was as smart as him, and since i am mostly driven by the thirst of knowledge and understanding, the lack of exactly these things compared to some particularly lucky individuals can hurt at times.

but i am still better off than 99.99% of all people who ever lived - and if that is not good enough for you, then i believe the problem is your standards.

>> No.7599572

>>7598814
actually, about half of all human history happened in the last century.
You're still better than most people through history, but only about 75%

>> No.7601751

why don't you just get swole as fuck, intimidate the fuckers into giving you the answeres and shit, thne they wont be top dog anymore.

i mean fuck you aint gotta be smart shit to see that fuck.

>> No.7602212

Terrance is actually very humano in this regard, most of you will say shit and he actively shows that effort and passion are the true fuel for his sucess, in interviews and in his site.
Coming from a genius that is pretty good, he could be a level A douche.