What jobs are out there for a Math major? What jobs for a Stats major?

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Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:00:23 2015 No.7581241 [Reply] [Original]

What jobs are out there for a Math major? What jobs for a Stats major?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:03:57 2015 No.7581247 >>7581241 Academia and academia.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:15:59 2015 No.7581266 >>7581241 Maybe engineering. But depends on your minor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:17:15 2015 No.7581268 >>7581241 Normally, actuary. But if you have connections and/or technical certifications on any other field you could work anywhere from a software company to an engineering company.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:21:39 2015 No.7581276 >BSc Teaching and literally nothing else. >MSc Teaching, actuary, consultancy (this is true for pretty much all M degrees), banking. >PhD Teaching (if you ask really nicely), academia, and literally nothing else.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:26:37 2015 No.7581283

>>7581276
OP, never ever start believing these people. Probably a fucking engineer.

Just remember that your pure math class is so abstract that the only positive thing you get from it (when it comes to industry) is top tier, beyond believeable analytical skills.

For most jobs your analytical skills will carry you but if you want to get into a good spot in a really technical industry then work on those certifications.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:34:21 2015 No.7581297 >>7581283 >don't trust those anonymous posters, trust this one! Of my year's MSc a grand total of none became engineers, two went into teaching, a bunch went into consultancy, and four are either actuaries or quants. Some became PhDs.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:40:18 2015 No.7581305

>>7581297
That is a bit sad. Probably the saw it as the best pay for the least effort.

Anyways, my point was that it is very possible to go your own way. All you need is technical certifications in X field and you are already more qualified than people who majored in X field.

Who would you hire?
A CS graduate who you know did, if lucky, a Calculus 1 and algebra 1. Who you know had half of every year be "Do this repetitive task in Java". "OO programming" etc.

Or a Pure math graduate that has a programming portfolio and/or certifications from technical schools in X language/technology.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:41:59 2015 No.7581308 File: 4 KB, 120x120, arnold_cigar3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7581283 >Probably a fucking engineer. >being this butt-blasted

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:46:19 2015 No.7581313 >>7581308 M8, better get back to work, Raj needs to talk to you.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:48:31 2015 No.7581317

I've worked at over 5 different international technical companies, 2 different engineering firms and since my return to academia I've done consulting for many, many different industries including petro, plastics, pulp, food, inorg. chemicals, mining and electronics industries. (most of these doing research in all the buzzwords you can imagine btw)

I have NEVER in my career seen a SINGLE mathematician employed at an R&D lab, never mind an engineering department/firm.

The only pure degrees that find jobs in industry is chemistry and the specialized degrees like forestry, genetics etc. (most tech companies employ a combination of (bio)chemists, engineers and MS&Es in their R&D labs) and I've known few physicists working in R&D, mostly in the smaller departments on product development type projects, not on the reactors, process synthesis or anything else on the engineering side. The general titles are "[junior/senior/lead] scientist" , "technician", "engineering [technologist/technician]" etc. never "[junior/senior/chief] [insert discipline] engineer".

Yet every single time I've encountered a math. department's brochure or seen a mathematician trying to shill his discipline on the internet/real life they will always try to imply they can get employment in a technical career with their degree. Where is the proof?

It's a complete fantasy.

Except for finance firms the mathematicians hired by technical companies are employed as vanilla white collars aren't working on the technical side. These people think they will be allowed to work on reactors, but they are about as qualified as a philosophy degree holder when it comes to applied science.

[rant continued in next post]

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:51:57 2015 No.7581320 >>7581305 Wha are you basing this off of? Are just pulling it out your ass, or do you actually have any experience with the career trajectories of math students.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:52:34 2015 No.7581322

>>7581317

I have quite a few friends who are math PhDs so let me just sum up what people in the real world think their career options are:
>Quants (if you're graduating from a top tier grad-school)
>Other finance [by this I mean neo-blue collar type jobs for example "bankers" who are essentially helping customers fill in forms and punching it into a screen, not even accounting]
>Academia
>Teaching outside academia
>General McJobs tier office drone

That's it, people who don't like those options go back to school for another degree.

There is a rather sickly case of academic inbreeding in mathematics departments, they have a delusional inflated sense of self-importance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:52:58 2015 No.7581323 >>7581297 I thought quants always had PhD's in math

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:53:00 2015 No.7581324 >>7581241 I have a bs in math. Got a software engineer job. Not really using my degree but it at least got me a decent enough job.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:54:27 2015 No.7581326 >>7581320 You can get a job programming if you are competent in programming. This is not a wild claim.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:54:44 2015 No.7581327 >>7581317 This guy knows what's up

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:55:29 2015 No.7581328 >>7581326 Not at all. But to claim that it's your only option is either kind of silly or a severe manifestation of the selection effect.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:55:30 2015 No.7581329 >>7581241 300k starting

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:55:48 2015 No.7581330 >>7581268 >Normally, actuary. No, you need a very specific degree for that, you need to be chartered before you can work as an actuary which means you need an accredited degree in actuarial math/science.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:58:17 2015 No.7581336 >>7581313 Sorry I don't who is this Raj guy, Deepak.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:58:20 2015 No.7581337 >>7581330 No. You only need to pass the exams. Don''t even need a degree. But everyone wants you to have some bs.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 12:59:26 2015 No.7581339

>>7581283
>beyond believeableanalytical skills.
>then work on those certs
Wow, no, being a code monkey writing simple algorithms is not using "beyond believeable [sic] analytical skills". Again with the inflated sense of self importance. Pure math might be abstract, but it's not nearly as difficult as you want to believe it is.

Any idiot can understand abstract ideas if they study it long enough, just look at all the religious and occultist fuckwits in the world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:00:01 2015 No.7581341 File: 39 KB, 589x441, mcd2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7581241 > What jobs are out there > 2015 > jobs Good luck, my friend.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:02:07 2015 No.7581344 >>7581339 Please, engineers can barely pass baby discrete math. Regardless of jobs math is objectively harder.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:02:59 2015 No.7581346

>>7581305
>Honestly believing you'll be more qaulified than a CS major if you get your certs.

This delusional is unbearable, I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your posts.

OP don't listen to these morons. If you like pure fields, but don't want to stay in academia you NEED a science/applied degree. I recommend double majoring in math and physics at minimum if you don't know what applied fields you want to work in.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:05:06 2015 No.7581354

>>7581326
http://sce.uhcl.edu/helm/SWEBOK_IEEE/papers/10%20reprint%205.pdf
>Calling Software Development Software Engineering
>Unless these activities also include the design of hardware interfaces, power systems, or other engineered components, they do not appear to meet the legal definition of engineering practices.
>It might be more accurately described as "code writing", "product support" or other tasks that the board doesn't regulate.
>...if the practitioner is calling the activity software engineering, he or she is violating the law.

Why do you code monkeys always try to get fancy titles? You know you could literally see jail time under the consumer protection act right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:06:41 2015 No.7581357 >>7581344 Fuck off, you don't know anything about engineering or STEM in general. Everyone thinks their degree is the most difficult. The truth is your degree is about as difficult as an accounting BS.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:08:20 2015 No.7581361

>>7581339

"Understanding" abstract ideas is not the same as abstract mathematics.

This is a really stupid argument. Say what you want about how "easy" you think maths are but at least come up with something that doesn't sound fucking stupid.

A mathematician in a software company will definitely not stay a code monkey.
They would have to climb the ladder (probably the reason why math guys stick with teching and being consultants), so they would be code monkeys, but a mathematician could easily become the lead of the programming department.

But climbing the ladder is the same for anyone. The only point I'm making is that mathematicians can climb the ladder as fast as you can.

And to whoever said it. Of course you wouldn't let a mathematician touch your fucking reactor, that would be ridiculous. But are you saying he couldn't do the calculations for a building?

Of course they fucking could, and some do, but this kind of simple computation is so beyond most mathematicians that it would be tedious for one. Probably the other reason why they stick to academia.

All I'm saying is that they can do it, just like you. A math degree is worth no less than any other degree.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:08:48 2015 No.7581363 >>7581354 The degrees in software engineering literally include no hardware design. I'm not worried.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:13:36 2015 No.7581368 >>7581357 Engineers are literally taught how to solve problems through routine application of formulas. There biggest degree challenge is literally tripple integrals. Math requires complete understanding and unteachable problem solving.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:15:32 2015 No.7581371 >>7581363 They study things which are actually relevant to engineering industry, How much control theory and Z-calculus have you done? They've done more and more importantly they've applied it to real non-ideal physical systems before.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:18:42 2015 No.7581378

>>7581361
>They would have to climb the ladder

You're climbing a ladder that has a ceiling below entry level engineering. That is what your not getting and that's why shouldn't recommend doing only math and certs to people who want to work in industry. That is even more retarded than my religion=abstract analogy.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:21:07 2015 No.7581382

>>7581368
Take your trolling somewhere else.

And know, engineering students your age where solving PDEs while you were still working on epsilon-delta proofs.

What you also fail to understand is that understanding math is the easy part. Real world science and engineering is far more complicated than the simple problems you do in academia.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:23:09 2015 No.7581383 >>7581378 There is no ceiling. In my state you don't even need a 4 year degree of any type to get a PE license. For software especially math is as viable as CS.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:25:59 2015 No.7581386 >>7581382 >solving pdes Thanks for proving my point kid. Routine application of formulas.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:26:24 2015 No.7581387

>>7581383
>There is no ceiling.
Yes there is, no one is ever going to do anything even marginally important with just a math degree. Your beliefs isn't real life. You're like a technician diploma holder who thinks he can eventually climb the corporate ladder to be a chief engineer.

Not unless you go back to school for another 4 year degree at some point.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:28:14 2015 No.7581390 File: 464 KB, 499x335, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7581339 >>7581344 >>7581357 >>7581368 >>7581382 >>7581386 Jeez just make out already

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:28:15 2015 No.7581391

>>7581378
>>7581378
This is true but only for the mathematicians that were stupid enough to choose the ladder of engineering in the first place. I know that I used engineering and software development as my examples before but really... what mathematician would want to go to engineering?

If you had wanted to use 0 thinking and apply formulas made hundreds of years ago by real mathematicians then you would have gone to engineering. The mathematician is obviously not the kind of guy to do engineering.

But there are many other places to climb the ladder. Places that will stimulate you intellectually and will not put a glass ceiling on you because of some bullshit "Only people who did 4 year engineering degrees after this point" laws.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:28:22 2015 No.7581392

>>7581386
What do you think pdes is? Have ever taken a PDE class? Have you ever solved a new class and published in the field? Because I have.

In addition to knowing very little about STEM in general, you seem to know very little about mathematics too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:30:50 2015 No.7581394 >>7581387 >claim there exists a magical ceiling. >someone points out that there is no such ceiling as far as technical qualifications. >make a reply devoid of substance. Yea we should all be real convinced.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:31:43 2015 No.7581398

>>7581391
Guess what? The other places to climb ladders require law degrees, M tech. management (which requires an engineering BS) or MBAs.

A math degree is not intended for a professional degree. And there is no one in the real world that considers you on the same level as a professional degree holder. You're seen as being about as smart as a house wife/middle school teacher with your hobby degree.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:37:08 2015 No.7581403

>>7581392

One does not solve PDE's and the interesting questions in PDEs are not solutions as mostare intractable but on exsistence and uniqueness of solutions.

PDE claases for none mathematicians are literally learn separation of variables.This is undisputable.

But Iam talking to an idiot who as an engineer has a delusional view of his mathematical ability.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:42:22 2015 No.7581406

>>7581398
>Hobby degree

Okay, I will make up for my mistake of even mentioning engineering in my first post and give you a better list of where to climb the ladder as a mathematician.

-Professor/Tenure track (the usual)
-Software Development/Engineering
-Algorithm design (in cutting edge technology companies)
-Data Analyst
-Statistician for industry
-Satatistician for research

One of the best examples I could find is:
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/417885400
Here you would be working as a mathematician for a HEALTH department.

To show I'm not talking out of my ass:
Basic Requirements:

A. Degree: that included 24 semester hours of mathematics and statistics, of which at least 12 semester hours were in mathematics and 6 semester hours were in statistics.

Every math degree has statistics in it. Some allow you to specialize in it.

And analysing data is actually a job that would stimulate you intellectually. You would not be using specific formulas, but insted you would be using your analytical skills 24/7.

Remember that the research could be in any field and the industry could be any industry. Of course there is no 300k starting bullshit but the example I gave has a pay that goes from 80k to 100k.

Not bad at all.

Once again, I stand my ground. My major claim in this thread still is that a mathematics degree is worth as much as your applied science degree.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:46:25 2015 No.7581410 >>7581382 >solving PDEs Man if you're gonna strawman, strawman with something hard. That shit isn't "advanced" in any way. Just apply formula and fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:47:30 2015 No.7581411 >>7581398 >math >hobby degree for housewives This is why /sci/ is such an awful board.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:49:51 2015 No.7581416

>>7581406

Dont forget it's also a platform for an MS in literally all the "professional" degrees.

CS, EE, IE, CE all accept math majors and in the states in my area, you can get a PE license with an MS degree(even an AS in my specific) state.

Engineers at the undergrad level are literally the worker bees churned out to maintain infastructure and keepcthe economy functional. There is absolute nothing remarkable about them and most would fail higher level math(which is why they get their special engineering math courses.)

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:56:27 2015 No.7581420

>>7581403
>One does not solve PDE's and the interesting questions in PDEs are not solutions as mostare intractable but on exsistence and uniqueness of solutions.
No fucking shit retard, but also it's not the degenerate solutions are often useful in analyzing particular system properties in transport problems (continuum mechanics, heat transfer and reaction-diffusion systems since you are undoubtedly too retarded to know what transport means).

You will never deal with systems that are as complicated as engineering systems in your entire career. You've probably never even seen coupled non-linear classes never mind delayed non-linear functional classes.

Just because you were able to sit still like a good little autist and do a few simplified textbook math problems for 4 years, does not mean you're good at applied math, never mind actually understand science and engineering which is not about understanding idealized math at all.

You are so ridiculously delusional about your own abilities you don't even where you stand relative to other disciplines (which is at the very introductory level bottom; any advanced math you learned is not useful outside math academia).

I'm not going to convince you further, I'll just let figure out for yourself when you try to apply to jobs in the real world. Any that is stupid enough to trust you and major in math so they can meme on /sci/ deserves what's coming to them anyway,

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 13:59:54 2015 No.7581423 >>7581420 Hi perdue fag, shitposting on sci between your dicksucking sessions?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:02:05 2015 No.7581425

>>7581420
I'm not the guy you are discussing about solving PDE's but every post of yours looks even saltier than the last.

Why are you so scared of the simple notion that a mathematician can have a decent living, working in a decent and satisfying job, just like do?

Don't worry, Ramanujam's ghost isn't going to haunt you at night if one of your co-workers ends up being a mathematician.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:03:15 2015 No.7581428

>>7581420
Not that guy that you are arguing with but....
Fucking chill. Your shit is not the most impressive in the world man. PDEs are a very specific subject, and it's fine that you enjoy working with them. But they are no the hardest problem. They are not even "hard" by academia definition.
Sure toy problems are good for creating abstraction. But you must realize that your field is not impressive and it is not harder than theoretical math.
I do not enforce theoretical mathematics, I do not find it enjoyable. I'm more of an applied guy. But the theoretical problems are vastly, grossly harder than the applied problems. There is not even a competition here.
You are suffering vastly from the Dunning-Krüger effect and should not have such a strong opinion on things you have not grasped.

However with this all said, sure - applied problems are hard, I find them hard, I only even find enjoyment in solving them. But they are not harder than theoretical problems, which is why I specialized in applied. It's fine if you and I are not doing the hardest jazz in the bar man. But we gotta realize that there are people who are, and they are generally more clever than us.
Again, Dunning-Krüger effect for you, because I've worked it and failed.
Google Dunning-Krüger if you don't know what it is.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:09:11 2015 No.7581434

>>7581406
>-Professor/Tenure track (the usual)
Sure, but you are on 4chan, no one here will get this.
>-Software Development/Engineering
IT crowd tier code monkey. You'll never even get to the level of CS/real SE and even then the highest you can climb is still very low relative to other technical manages in most companies.
>-Algorithm design (in cutting edge technology companies)
>-Data Analyst
There are more qualified people, but sure you can climb to VERY high-salaries, still not top management level.
>-Statistician for industry
>-Satatistician for research
Rarely happens. No one needs a pet mathematician for these jobs, someone with AppSci can do it themselves. You overestimate how simple stats in industry and research is.

>Here you would be working as a mathematician for a HEALTH department.
Doing donkey calculations or did you not read the job description?

>very math degree has statistics in it.
So does every engineering degree, at least 3 credit hours often more, not that they'd take simple jobs like that.

>You would not be using specific formulas,
There is not a single real world circumstance where does happens other than maybe technician work.

>And analysing data is actually a job that would stimulate you intellectually.
No, design stimulates you intellectually. Research stimulates you intellectual. Analyzing data is feeding numbers into a computer and doing minimal thinking every now and then, but mostly you're just taking orders from your boss and plugging his ideas in.

>Once again, I stand my ground. My major claim in this thread still is that a mathematics degree is worth as much as your applied science degree.
It's simply not. I would never recommend mathematics to anyone not intending to pursue an academic career and you'd be extremely dishonest to do it yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:12:01 2015 No.7581439 >>7581392 >Have you ever solved a new class and published in the field? Because I have. Alright let's see it tough guy anon

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:14:53 2015 No.7581446

>>7581423
I'm not the NukeE. I have degrees in ChemE (post) and physics (b.) and I rarely post in these type of threads.

>>7581425
Yes I'm talking about solving, you don't seem to understand

>Why are you so scared of the simple notion that a mathematician can have a decent living, working in a decent and satisfying job, just like do?
I'm not, I have never said that mathematicians can't get decent (mostly non-technical) industry salaries. I said it's an extremely poor choice if you want a STEM career in industry, which it is. Math departments keep pushing the propaganda that their graduates are good enough to work in engineering, which is a bullshit fantasy and needs to stop. Usually when I confront faculty about this they backtrack and talk about getting applied degrees after a math B. Which negates their entire premise of math being anything more than a background to S&E.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:16:23 2015 No.7581448 >>7581446 What about a degree in applied mathematics?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:27:58 2015 No.7581468

>>7581428
Fuck off and stop pretending you know anything about the field you undergrad shitstain.

Math departments have entire research groups dedicated to it, the cutting edge of the field IS theoretical.

Mathematicians are the ones suffering from dunning-kruger effect (which includes you since you are obviously not in appSci, but a false flag math shill), their field is not difficult. Maybe you should actually try talking to math researchers to find out what they do before you suck their cock, none of it is particularly impressive or difficult. And they are generally pretty low functioning autists, not high IQ intellectuals like you imagine yourself to be.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:28:09 2015 No.7581469

>>7581434
>Sure, but you are on 4chan, no one here will get this.
If you are going to undervalue the community then why the fuck are you even here? I hate the people who say "I'm so much better than anyone in here... but I'm still here." Or "This place sucks... but I'm still in this place."
Fuck you, asshole.

>IT crowd tier code monkey. You'll never even get to the level of CS/real SE and even then the highest you can climb is still very low relative to other technical manages in most companies.
Depends on the company. Working in an "app" company? Sure, code monkey work. You woul do this to get experience years anyways. Then you go to actual software companies working on the 21st century's problems of computation.

>There are more qualified people, but sure you can climb to VERY high-salaries, still not top management level.
More qualified people? More qualified than who? More qualified than EVERY math major? Good luck proving that. Once again proving you are an idiot. Also, are you claiming that the end goal of STEM degrees is to get into business management? What the hell? If you mean the lead of your team, there is no reason why a math guy couldn't do this.

>Rarely happens. No one needs a pet mathematician for these jobs, someone with AppSci can do it themselves. You overestimate how simple stats in industry and research is.
You say rarely happens when I took the time and effort to find a real example that has 2 openings. There is more from where that came from and it is specifically looking for math degrees. It does accept other people with hours in statistics but there is a reason why they are the B. and we are the A.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:29:11 2015 No.7581471

>>7581469
part 2

>>7581434
>Doing donkey calculations or did you not read the job description?
Really depends. Here you would be working in an multidisciplinary team. You would learn from your peers and they would learn from you. It would expand your view on the world.
While in your engineering firm? Everyone there is the same type of engineer, all of them learned the exact same shit. A bunch of drones programmed to do the same tasks. No variety,

>So does every engineering degree, at least 3 credit hours often more, not that they'd take simple jobs like that.
All I can say to this is... good for you. It does not hurt me that you get statistics. Does it hurt you that I get a job?

>There is not a single real world circumstance where does happens other than maybe technician work.
I don't get this statement. You win?

>No, design stimulates you intellectually. Research stimulates you intellectual. Analyzing data is feeding numbers into a computer and doing minimal thinking every now and then, but mostly you're just taking orders from your boss and plugging his ideas in.
To some degree, analysis is design. Specially if you are allowed to innovate in the process by which the data is looked at. So I guess it depends, but just like there are engineers that design the projects, there are also the guys who sit in a cubicle 8 hours a day using their calculators to see if this pillar is going to break or not. Everyone has to do repetitive tasks in a job.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:30:55 2015 No.7581476 >>7581411 Have you not seen the statistics? The majority math B. holders are housewives...

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:30:56 2015 No.7581477 >>7581468 Wow that's some hardcore angst right there. What's the matter, a mathematician made you cry or something? Some are low functioning autists, some are neat. However your field is not the hardest, deal with it kiddo. Why are you so mad tho?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:31:46 2015 No.7581479

>>7581471
part 3

>>7581434

>It's simply not. I would never recommend mathematics to anyone not intending to pursue an academic career and you'd be extremely dishonest to do it yourself.
To imply that X degree's only purpose is to teach it back is stupid. Specially if it is a discipline that has been with humanity for more than 3000 years.

I will give you something though. It is true that for a job in industry as a mathematician, you will have to work harder for it than other people.

But again, if you are a mathematician then you are used to working harder than other people and being successful at it.

You do not get into mathematics to go for the easy route. You do so if you actually care about the important of logic and formalization in order to solve the biggest problems.

And what about you engineers? By the numbers showing how over saturated your market is, it is so obvious that you choose engineer to go for the easy quick buck.

And not even this will be true in a couple of years, when half of engineers are not even employable because everyone and their mom has a bachelors in every engineering discipline.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:33:29 2015 No.7581486

>>7581448
If I wanted an applied math B degree I could just register and instantly have enough credits.

But there's no point considering my background already more than sufficient and S&Es develop their own math, actual applied math is very different from the superficial applied math taught at mathematics departments.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:37:25 2015 No.7581499

>>7581486
But we are very much working on real problems. Like making the planing algorithm for an unmanned helicopter for example. Planing, not planning. We are feeded real world problems, very often.
Maybe it's your school that's a shithole and not the rest of the world?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:38:07 2015 No.7581500 >>7581346 Just do both cs and math mayne.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:39:54 2015 No.7581505 There is of course NSA, if you have no morals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:42:36 2015 No.7581507 >>7581505 >The world is US of A. Nah. Plenty of fish in the sea. And by fish I mean occupations and by sea I mean not US of A

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:47:42 2015 No.7581516

>>7581469
I said 4chan, but I meant people here who waste time posting in major politics threads. So me and you.

>actual software companies working on the 21st century's problems of computation.
Hire CS majors from top schools.

>Also, are you claiming that the end goal of STEM degrees is to get into business management?
Yes, the end goal literally is management. What do you think professors' end goals are? What do you think research chairs do? For any real career it all ends in management whether you like it or not.

> If you mean the lead of your team, there is no reason why a math guy couldn't do this.
Yes there is, the fact that they are a math major with no education in project management -unlike professional degrees. Which in the first place is not something you can quickly pick up, and secondly not something anyone will ever trust you enough with to promote you.

>You say rarely happens when I took the time and effort to find a real example that has 2 openings.
Many pure math autists from top schools who weren't force to do stats don't even meet the requirements for that posting. In fact it's literally the people you make fun of regularly, the people who get math stats degrees are more employable than pure math. And statistician is not a fun or intellectually stimulating job like you want to believe it is.

>While in your engineering firm? Everyone there is the same type of engineer, all of them learned the exact same shit.
You're an idiot. Engineering firms hire everyone form lawyers to biochemists to artists.

>multidisciplinary team.
That means you'll be taking orders from the engineer/scientist PhD holder to plug numbers in and you'll be allowed 5% speaking time in a meeting to discuss your results.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:48:45 2015 No.7581518

>>7581471

>I don't get this statement.
Most real world engineering work requires applying principles to develop new process models. There are no "formulas", there are not even heuristics solved problems is not engineering work, it's technician work, or more accurately a technician using software written by 20th century engineers.

>To some degree, analysis is design.
No.
>Specially if you are allowed to innovate in the process by which the data is looked at.
You won't be. They send that work to the engineering department.

>there are also the guys who sit in a cubicle 8 hours a day using their calculators to see if this pillar is going to break or not.
Show me those guys. You keep making up shit about professions you don't understand -including your own-, but your posts stem from /sci/ memes not the real world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:51:21 2015 No.7581526 >>7581507 >> mfw literally not a Murkan Choose your own local subterfuge network then, every developed country has one in some form or another.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:53:44 2015 No.7581532 >>7581526 Yeah. The difference is that we don't have to sell our soul to work for them. Since you know, most governments are not corrupt to the bone and such. But you know, outside murica the world is a crazy place, right?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 14:57:21 2015 No.7581536

>>7581479
>Specially if it is a discipline that has been with humanity for more than 3000 years.
Engineering has been around for even longer what's your point?

>But again, if you are a mathematician then you are used to working harder than other people and being successful at it.
Math undergrads have 25% the credit hours of engineering degrees. You know jack fuckall about what hard work means.

Try a ChemE, medicine or even a law degree, then you can talk to me about hard work. You did an unprofessional light degree, you need to stop acting like it's so goddamn difficult when my housewife hobby comment was not even exaggerated. It's one of the easiest degrees to get unless you're studying at Cambridge.

You keep trying to steer it into your delusion "yeah ok, my degree is not that useful to industry, but it shows I'm intelligent because it was so hard for me". You're not useful precisely because you've never done anything hard, you didn't develop any creative problem solving skills that other professional stem didn't develop to a much greater extent. You are still in your diapers and you won't get good at problem solving until you're at a level where you can publish.

>By the numbers showing how over saturated your market is
Except there are 4 times more math graduates than ChemE graduates you fucking idiot. You're confusing admissions with people who actually finish the degree.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:00:09 2015 No.7581539 >>7581536 >creative problem solving >math HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAHH sure is hurt bottom in here

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:02:45 2015 No.7581540
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>>7581536
Pic related for proof. I was a bit off.

There are 2.75 math graduates for every ChemE graduate and there are 3.35 math graduates for every physics graduate.

More interesting stats. There are less EEs and CIVIL engineering graduates than math graduates.

If you don't get over your delusions now you can just fuckoff and go back to your eco chamber. You'll find out how worthless you are compared to engineers when you graduate, but for now keep thinking your degree is in any way prestigious in your little inbred mono-disciplinary circlejerk.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:03:51 2015 No.7581542 >>7581536 >Not hard Having engineers drop functional analysis like butter in walmart

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:05:22 2015 No.7581546

>>7581499
>But we are very much working on real problems. Like making the planing algorithm for an unmanned helicopter for example. Planing, not planning. We are feeded real world problems, very often.
That's a typical third year control engineering problem. Don't know what math department you're from working on solved problems.

And no, most math departments at good universities do pure research.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:08:06 2015 No.7581551

>>7581542
Better analogy:
Engineers drop functional analysis like bitches drop panties for Channing Tatum.
>>7581546
Lol fuck no, are you for real?
SAAB(sweden, yes) just implemented this type of functionality. It was only solved a year before us, we solved it using a Ph.D paper. No, this is not a control theory problem, this is not an engineer problem, this is a very complex modern geometry problem, that engineers do not, can not and will not understand or even partake.
This is how I know you are full of shit, saying shit like this.
Man fuck off back to /b/.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:08:47 2015 No.7581553 >>7581542 When you're only taking 4x3c courses per semester any class is easy. Try taking 7 courses and then see if you'll you won't drop your hobby one to pass your more difficult cores.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:10:51 2015 No.7581556

>>7581553
lel engineers at our school have at most 3-4 courses at a time. Each semester is comprised of two reading periods, 3-4 each. Most engineers(that I know of, and know) only take 2-3 since they can't do a full schedule.
Talking out of your ass mate. Do you think mathematicians only do 3-4 courses per semester?

Such a prick tbh

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:12:07 2015 No.7581557

>>7581553
Add to: >>7581556
Most engineers read 75% schedule, not even comprised of mathematics. Such shit as programming and lab courses.
Holy shit man, I take programming courses to take the load off my schedule, they take lower course load because of programming.
Engineers ain't shit.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:14:40 2015 No.7581563

>>7581551
>>7581556
>Swede

Your engineering degrees aren't even internationally accredited. Why are you trying to talk as if you're on the same level as us? Get out of /sci/ you snowmonkeys, Jamal still needs to warm his cock in your ass tonight. Just in case you don't understand what I'm telling you -I know it's hard because you attend a school with a lower rating than my local CC-, you do NOT know any REAL engineers in the Western sense of the word.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:20:42 2015 No.7581573

>>7581551
>this is not a control theory problem, this is not an engineer problem, this is a very complex modern geometry problem

That is control theory, learn what control theory actually is.
Here's a fellow Swedecuck that wrote a book for you: http://www.amazon.com/Methods-Algebraic-Geometry-Control-Theory/dp/0817634541

Again with the academic inbreeding, you know so little about other disciplines you're a postgrad that doesn't even know how your work ties in with other fields.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:31:30 2015 No.7581592
File: 9 KB, 250x201, 1438837904826s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7581573
hm u could go into Rx and sell out the Americans babies to the aliems
you could go into Law and sell out the Americans to the aliems
you could go into Weapons mfg and sell out natives to the aliems

basically fuck you and your kind nigger faggot

for the glory of reezod

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:34:53 2015 No.7581603 >>7581592 I don't even know what you're saying nerd, but I'll fuck off anyway because this thread is retarded. I sincerely hope the real world shock doesn't hit you too hard. Don't kill yourself, you can always go back to school for an AppSci degree.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:45:09 2015 No.7581624

>>7581241
I know this thread is about jobs, but it's kind of disappointing seeing all these people raised to think a job is the epitome of life.

I'm studying math because I enjoy it, and it will increase my reasoning abilities (in certain situations).

I could end up as a librarian or video game designer, I couldn't care less. Being a puzzle designer would be cool, either for video games or things like rubiks cubes.

Back on topic.
Getting a degree in math also opens you up to better chances in any career that doesn't require a specific degree. As long as you are good at something, you will get a job.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:45:44 2015 No.7581626 >>7581536 >go to math help center on campus >more enginneers asking for help than math majors >mfw dumb engineers need help with calculus and complex numbers

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:45:48 2015 No.7581627 >>7581540 When is this data coming from? In my country, senior year engineering have 5 classrooms full of around 50 people. freshman year mathematics has 1 classroom with around 20 people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:47:00 2015 No.7581630 >>7581627 >math class so easy anyone that enrolls graduate >engineering class so hard 90% fail anon why are you so dumb? cant you see this is how it is?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:49:31 2015 No.7581639 >>7581627 >When is this data coming from? Scientific American In other words the real world and not your bullshit anecdotes.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:52:25 2015 No.7581647

>>7581639
math can be taken as a general degree in most institutions

engineering is the equivalent of a honors in math

did you fail stats 101 anon? arent you a wannaby engineer? shouldnt u be good at interpreting numbers in the context of real world? where is, where is your creativity anon? did, did you fail out of engineer school anon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:53:08 2015 No.7581648 >>7581540 I wouldn't compare math with a specific engineering. Also, it says math and stats, this may include obscure degrees. I always thought physics was more popular then mathematics

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:57:07 2015 No.7581654

>>7581630
SENIOR classrooms have 5 classrooms.
People that were able to reach the last year are the least likely to drop it. People usually drop in the first and second year.

FRESHMAN mathematics has one classroom.

Are you dumb? Or were you in your 4th year of engineering and dropped out?

>>7581639
>American
There was some other guy who earlier said that the world is not fucking USA. Looks like americans are too fucking stupid to realize this.

>tfw a significant percentage of americans cannot point to their own country on a map
>tfw this is probably because they think the whole world is america.

Go eat an american cock.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:57:58 2015 No.7581655 >>7581648 >I wouldn't compare math with a specific engineering. Yes, because you don't know anything about engineering or how vastly different the disciplines are. It's like trying to group Physics with Biology under "science".

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 15:59:03 2015 No.7581659 >>7581654 SENIOR classrooms have 90% of previous dropouts retaking the class FRESHMAN math just pass and go Are YOU dumb? or were you in your 1st year of mathematics and passed the first time?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:01:25 2015 No.7581666

>>7581659
Okay.

So to counter my argument you are saying that most engineers fail every single year?

So your counter argument is that most aspiring engineers (that at some point become engineers) are so fucking stupid that they fail college multiple times?

Sounds about right.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:02:57 2015 No.7581671 >>7581666 no anon, you dont have an argument. you have a delusional opinion. I have a fact.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:03:52 2015 No.7581675 >>7581655 I was voicing an opinion about cherry picking, not ordering you to clean your room

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:04:24 2015 No.7581679 >>7581671 Weak. Your "fact" is still that >most aspiring engineers (that at some point become engineers) are so fucking stupid that they fail college multiple times? Again, sounds about right.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:06:11 2015 No.7581683 >>7581666 My fiance admitted that she studied math because she wanted to get a college bf and didn't know what degree to get. How does that make you feel? It's literally an easy-mode degree for upper-middle class house wives.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:06:59 2015 No.7581688 >>7581683 yes, studies have shown that relationships where woman are the breadwinner are healthier and both individuals are happier

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:09:39 2015 No.7581693 >>7581655 more like Astronomy Physics, Physics, Applied Physics...etc Did you reply just to fit in?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:09:43 2015 No.7581695

>>7581683
How does that make me feel?
I don't know. Like I've said many times before, it doesn't hurt me.

>Implying that she couldn't have done engineering and had an even easier time
>Implying that anyways, undergrad degrees are all fucking easy

If she had gone up and got a phD in mathematics just for "fun" then maybe I would feel insulted.

People going to undergrad degrees because they "have to" is no surprise. A bigger percentage of people just go to engineering because it is "easy money".

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:09:50 2015 No.7581696

The minimum required for a math degree is fucking piss easy and a joke. That's why anyone in math who is remotely competent is taking graduate classes by their 3rd year and trying to do publishable research, or if they're interested in more technical areas like algebraic geometry that require a lot of background, they at least do independent study under a professor so that they can quickly get into research in grad school.

A math undergrad degree by itself is not impressive, I know I've got one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:09:58 2015 No.7581698 >>7581666 they fail because the classes are harder duh. what about this does you not get anon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:10:17 2015 No.7581699 >>7581688 She's a middle school teacher, like most math graduates. Her biggest contribution to science and engineering will be to provide a warm place for an engineering researcher's dick after a hard day's works. like most math graduates.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:11:57 2015 No.7581704 >>7581695 >A bigger percentage of people just go to engineering because it is "easy money". WHOOPS, looks like your delusion mental gymnastics has kicked up again anon, please see >>7581540.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:12:31 2015 No.7581706

>>7581698

>Students fails because the classes are too hard!
>My kid is not retarded. Is just that your class is too hard for him!
>I am not retarded, I just have too much work on my hands... on this... undergrad degree no less...

There is no reason to fail an undergrad year. All undergrad degrees are fucking easy. Even if you are retard level, all you need is to put more time than other people.

That means that most engineers are not only retarded, but are also lazy fucks that cannot put in the extra effort.

Also
>People fail my degree, that means it is harder than yours!

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:13:07 2015 No.7581708 >>7581699 your personality makes me cringe

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:14:29 2015 No.7581714

>>7581706
>There is no reason to fail an undergrad year. All undergrad degrees are fucking easy.

oh gee, i'm sorry anon, i didnt know you too 40 classes a semester in undergrad so you could take all the undergrad classes in 3 years.

sure sounds like a math major who had an easy ride easy ride because your degree is baby tier easy get it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:14:44 2015 No.7581715 >>7581699 She probably didn't have too many aspirations in life. Like most women, she knew she would be supported by a cuck engineer while she fucks a Physicist or Mathematician on the side.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:15:46 2015 No.7581721 >>7581699 well, the only chance that you have of attending a nobel prize ceremony is if one of her student gets awarded one and she get invited and you get to be her +1 because sure as hell your research isnt gonna cut it

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:16:37 2015 No.7581723

>>7581706
>All undergrad degrees are fucking easy.
Only a math major would think this because your degrees actually are easy and your courseload is laughable.

Most deans would compare the engineering course load to their med-school. Everything else is lightweight as fuck.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:17:39 2015 No.7581725

>>7581714
Are you arguing that undergrad degrees are actually hard?

We can argue all day about which one is easier than the other, but all undergrad degrees are easy.

You are studying things that were discovered or proved decades and even centuries ago. Getting a phD is hard, you actually need to be the top at some discipline to do so. You can't just google your doubts away.

Engineers...

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:18:00 2015 No.7581728 >>7581708 >>7581715 >>7581721 It's going to be ok anons. We're all going to make it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:18:46 2015 No.7581730 >>7581728 >doesnt even attempt to retort pack it up guys we are done here. another soul converted

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:20:03 2015 No.7581732

>>7581725
So you think math postgrad is hard?

Because half the applied math postgrad classes are things engineers do in undergrad, so maybe you should stop trying to go down this road.

In any case difficult material is not what makes the entire programme difficult, the huge course load on top of difficult material is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:20:06 2015 No.7581734 >>7581725 no anon, i havent been arguing with you at all. i'm merely presenting facts and yes i'm sure centuries ago they understood how to build skyscrapers and rockets and stuff

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:22:06 2015 No.7581739

>>7581624
I think it's funny seeing people obsessively suck their own dicks and assert that their field of study is so much better than someone else's. This thread could have just been some polite discussion about career opportunities but I guess that's too much to expect.

Your last point is spot on, too. A math degree isn't as vocational as an engineering degree or even a pure science degree in the sense that there aren't really "math jobs." Everyone thinks that math majors must just go on to be teachers because of that, but like you said the degree works really well for going into pretty much anything that you need a degree but not a specific degree for.

Ideally though, for anyone that wants to major in math, it's best to either try and double major or get a minor in some sort of applied field that you are interested in. CS and Economics are the most common pairings with math and in a lot of cases just having that minor will make you stand out compared to a good chunk of people.
>>7581330
That's completely wrong, though. Like the other guy said, all you have to do is pass the tests and you can call yourself an actuary, and most places will hire you for basic actuarial work before you've finished half of them.
>>7581540
Number of graduates doesn't really prove much comparatively. There are less anthropology and philosophy graduates than any of the listed engineering disciplines but I wouldn't make claims for either of those fields being less saturated than any of the engineering disciplines.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:25:08 2015 No.7581748

>>7581739
>I think it's funny seeing people obsessively suck their own dicks and assert that their field of study is so much better than someone else's. This thread could have just been some polite discussion about career opportunities but I guess that's too much to expect.

you are on a website thats predominately 18-22 year olds what do you expect?

these people are recent highschool graduates with very narrow world view, whos identity is what they do in school like it has been for the last 12+ years. they have no idea how fluid the real world actually is. i mean, dumb engineers right?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:33:55 2015 No.7581767

>>7581739
>This thread could have just been some polite discussion about career opportunities but I guess that's too much to expect.

When someone tries to put forward how a math degree can get you all the jobs in any industry and will make people think you're some intelligent demi-god that's when productive conversation breaks down.

Do you really think it's a good idea to let people get away with telling this bullshit to freshman or anyone else for that matter? It's not healthy behaviour just so someone can stroke their e-penis on a Nepalese buffalo skin tanning forum and then have an eco chamber feeding his delusions.

Your advice is good though.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:37:09 2015 No.7581773

>>7581767
>When someone tries to put forward how a math degree can get you all the jobs in any industry and will make people think you're some intelligent demi-god that's when productive conversation breaks down.

>i..i..i.. was triggered!!!! i cant control my emotions like an adult WAH WAH WAH

typical engineers

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:38:16 2015 No.7581778

>>7581767
>When someone tries to put forward how a math degree can get you all the jobs in any industry

And once again you try to spin the reasoning of other people here.

In this entire thread, no one has claimed that math will get you any job in any industry.

In fact, one guy even said that as a math graduate you will probably have to put in more effort to get a good job.

The closes that was said to this is that you could work as a statistician for research and industry.

What industries and research? Those that need to get insight for heavy amounts of data.

This is not saying "all jobs in any industry"

Go eat a strawman's cock.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:39:53 2015 No.7581785 >>7581773 Am I the only one who's actually read the thread? The first guy just told it like it was. The math guy sperged out. If you get triggered by reality you're gonna have a hard time.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:42:08 2015 No.7581789

>>7581778

>>7581266
>engineering.

>>7581268
>But if you have connections and/or technical certifications on any other field you could work anywhere from a software company to an engineering company.

>>7581276
>>BSc
>Teaching and literally nothing else.
>>MSc
>Teaching, actuary, consultancy (this is true for pretty much all M degrees), banking.

And of course the best sperg of all:
>>7581283
>Probably a fucking engineer.
>Just remember that your pure math class is so abstract that the only positive thing you get from it (when it comes to industry) is top tier, beyond believeable analytical skills.
>For most jobs your analytical skills will carry you but if you want to get into a good spot in a really technical industry then work on those certifications.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:45:35 2015 No.7581795 I dunno OP. I've heard a math factory has opened down town - next to the english literature factory

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:52:19 2015 No.7581811 >>7581767 You're right, that guy is a nut, but there's a lot of shit-flinging and dick-waving on both sides. I'm pretty sure it's just that one guy making those claims and he's probably (successfully) baiting in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:22:24 2015 No.7581857 What jobs are out there for a Math major? >2015 >falling for the math meme

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:55:54 2015 No.7581903

I also have a question.

I'm trying to become an analyst and work with lots of data

Right now I'm majoring in Economics (Econometrics) with a minor in Math (Stats) and I'm wanting to add in a second minor, and I want to pick up a something computer-related. I'm curious if I should go with:

>Computer and Information Science
>introduces the theories and techniques of computer science while developing programming skills that are applicable to your major discipline. This will provide a general introduction to computer science including programming experience in at least two high-level languages.

or

>Computer Information Technology
>prepares students to work with evolving technologies for work environments that require development and management of business databases, computer networks, web applications, and software systems.

I'm going to learn SAS, R, and VBA anyway but I'll probably pick up extra skills from doing one of these minors. Which should I choose?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:56:47 2015 No.7581905 >>7581536 Lol, looks like an engineer tried to take analysis, failed miserably and is releasing their butthurt on 4chan about how it actually doesn't matter anyway. Rofl

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:13:02 2015 No.7581923 >>7581732 This is factually untrue. All math grads take a years worth of analysis which engineers would be unable to handle.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:22:48 2015 No.7581936 >>7581923 >which engineers would be unable to handle. And you state that post is factually untrue, So to back up your claim you decide to post an opinion?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:24:28 2015 No.7581941 File: 647 KB, 2856x4096, BSfQq.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7581936 Analysis isn't Calc 3

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:26:19 2015 No.7581945 >>7581936 Many universities define and mix classes together differently. For example, I never had a 'calc 3'. I had calc and multivariable calc and that's it. Covered all calc needs and advance topics as well.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:38:46 2015 No.7581963

>>7581936

Point is, even if the names of the courses are similar the content is substantially different and relies upon previous math knowledge. Not to mention with the supposedly rigid course load of engineering degrees there is no way they would have been able to take these additional math courses.

Irrespective of the economic value a mathematics degree is vastly more difficult and rigorous then the mathematics covered in engineering. Most engineers are mathematically inept.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:09:48 2015 No.7582000

Speaking of engineering I have a question. If engineering is so difficult why can mathematicians enter engineering graduate school? I mean surely with the rigorous nature of engineering(4 years of superxhard courses) and weakness of mathematics students(housewife degree) there is no way they could ever be successful.

I mean the fact the engineering department professors often have a bs in math is some type of anomaly. It couldn't be that mathematics is more difficult then engineering and gets respect of academic institutions moreso then engineering bs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:12:20 2015 No.7582004 >>7581241 professional sports

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:12:41 2015 No.7582005
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>>7582000
Everyone that says math is easy just look at the required courseload instead of actually look at what people in math study. I mean I could get a math degree with like calc 3 and a bunch of useless courses but most I know do only math courses/mathematical stats + some computer science

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:22:58 2015 No.7582019 >>7582005 >I mean I could get a math degree with like calc 3 That shouldn't ever be allowed, what the fuck.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:26:16 2015 No.7582024

>>7582019
It's not allowed, even at shitty schools math students still have to take analysis and algebra.

That said, a math bs is a piss easy degree. That's why non-retarded math students are taking grad classes by late in their 2nd or at least by their 3rd year, and all of senior year is doing research, grad classes or independent study of grad-level topics

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:32:36 2015 No.7582033

>>7582024

This is possible to do if you haven't gotten AP calc.

Year 1. Calculus and ODE
Year 2. Linear Algebra, intro to proofs/Discrete math/Algebra. + electives
Year 3. Advanced calculus + math electives
Year 4. Real and Complex Analysis + math electives.

It's the standard route for people who want to go on in math.

Regardless of what other courses you have taken completion of a year of Real Analysis(lebesgue) is not easy. That sequence alone invalidates most the of the 'hurrdurr math major is easy" critiques.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:39:27 2015 No.7582039 >>7581241 LITERALLY just learn R and SAS and apply to any job with SAS or R in the description it's that easy

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:40:07 2015 No.7582040 File: 702 KB, 1631x1158, 1444424176547.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7582033 >tfw real and complex analysis in year 2 Am I going to make it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:42:18 2015 No.7582045 >>7582040 Depends if your university calls advanced calc real analysis. If it does you're fucked.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:44:02 2015 No.7582048

>>7582033
I purposely noted that what I said applies to non-retards. If you're only doing "advanced calculus" only at your 3rd year, then you can't really complain that the engineers think your degree is for housewives.

Even if you come in with a shitty background you can do your years 1-4 outline in 2.5 years easy, then start taking grad classes

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:50:05 2015 No.7582053
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>>7582045
What is advanced calc? In my country and uni baby calc is up to stokes theorem on year one and that you should be able to prove everything that you use on the exams i.e. babys first epsilon deltas, chainrule for several variables etc

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:51:46 2015 No.7582055

>>7582048

>in 2.5 years.

This is factually impossible because of the pre-req restrictions. Few people go beyond Real Analysis at their undergrad(most don't even and stop at advanced calculus). Only the top grad-schools expect students to enter knowing Measure Theory.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:57:44 2015 No.7582060

>>7582055
How?

If you come in and you take calc 2, calc 3, DE's (which usually only requires calc 2), LA in your first year. Now you can take intro analysis/algebra. Meanwhile you can take advanced LA, or Topology, and the 2nd semester of 2nd year you can take a 2nd course in analysis and algebra. In any case, by your 3rd year you are free to take measure theory analysis and whatever else you want including grad classes

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:48:13 2015 No.7582147

>>7581241
http://www.maa.org/careers provides a non-exhaustive list of ideas.

http://www.mathclassifieds.org/jobseeker/search/results/ gives a list of employers seeking math majors (mostly professors or for research though).
There is so much shit you can do with a math degree, so long as you know what you want to do and you specialize for it. If you specialize in financial options and learn statistics/stochastic processes, you have to be retarded to not get employed. If you like programming, specialize in being a numerical analyst or a system analyst: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-systems-analysts.htm

If you enjoy math research, there's a lot of opportunities in meteorology and neurology.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 21:00:16 2015 No.7582167

>>7582147
I also want to add that there are a lot of deadbeat math majors. This is because being a math major can be terrifyingly easy if you choose to fill the minimum requirements and pick EZ-boi mathematics to complete the degree.

Don't be those guys. Fill your electives with math classes that will enrich your understanding of mathematics and be directly applicable to the field you are interested in. Take a few graduate level courses (Topology and Modern Algebra are great classes for a junior/senior to get their ears wet with graduate level math.)

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 22:02:01 2015 No.7582259 >>7582005 Sauce? iqdb and Google images gave nothing.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 23:35:36 2015 No.7582381
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>>7581406
>software development/engineering
>math degree

KEK

Oh, so mathematics teaches you assembly language, computer architecture, data structures, analysis of algorithms, interpreted vs compiled languages, programming in object oriented programming language and operating systems?

All of the above is essential for software engineering. An A.S. or a Minor in Comp Sci with a math degree, maybe. But to do real software engineering a knowledge of operating systems and other items stated before is a must

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 23:44:59 2015 No.7582394 >>7582381 With logic you can build anything!!!!!

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 23:49:57 2015 No.7582399

>>7582381
My first paid internship as an undergrad math major was software development for Oracle/PeopleSoft, a highly competitive position. I have never taken any compsci classes, but I have significant experience with mathematical modelling, so I was able to perform well on the entry test.

I now have a letter of recommendation from my supervisor, so yeah, I can pick up positions as a software developer.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 00:10:12 2015 No.7582421 >>7582399 This is why they have Fizz Buzz.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:05:56 2015 No.7582506

>>7582381
Do people even bother to read the entire thread before brain farting all over an otherwise insightful discussion?

Literally the first posts of this thread mention that as a math undergrad you should your free time to get technical certifications.

There are many schools that will give you official and valid certifications for any programming language.

But you don't need this anyways. I learned programming as a hobby. That's right, your 4 year CS major was my hobby since I was 12.

After I graduate, just by showing them my huge portfolio that I have kept well updated (to show the best programming practices, that I learned in the more recent years) and categorized (by language and platform) I could get hired. And if they test me with those popular "programming questions" they do to separate the serious people from the retards then I have no fear at all because I have solved more complex problems than they could ever ask me.

Also, most software development position do not require you to know assembly or computer architecture.

Even worse, you won't even need to know about data structures, algorithms, or the theory behind interpreted and compiled languages because as a CS guy you will end up as a code monkey that just needs to memorize the functions of X engine or mobile platform.

Stop stroking your dick so hard, you are bullshitting yourself if you think you need these things in most software development positions.

And surprise surprise, I know more about these topics than you will be taught in your petty CS classes. Just the fact that you have an OO class in college means the degree is for pure retards.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:08:46 2015 No.7582513 File: 50 KB, 638x425, studymaththeysaid.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7581241

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:20:34 2015 No.7582533

>>7581479
>But again, if you are a mathematician then you are used to working harder than other people and being successful at it.

Please stop with this inflated sense of self. Mathematics is no more difficult than any other STEM field and you're not working harder than any of us chemistry or physics majors.

I'm a chemistry and mathematics double major if you want to come at me.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:23:21 2015 No.7582536 >>7582533 Have you completed analysis courses yet? I am not disagreeing with you, but my experience is that many students do not know how to study for analysis classes and do poorly.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:26:25 2015 No.7582542

>>7582533
Sad.
You are alive proof that mathematicians work harder.

Like I have said, trying to be as honest as posible so that I don't come out as the "300k starting" bullshit guy, if you are a pure math graduate you will have to work much harder to get a good job.

Why I said you are "used" to working harder? Because if you are not a complete retard, you worked on the side picking up technical certifications or working on individual research that can give you a head start in the market.

Where do you fit in my idea? You are taking chemistry. A degree that will clearly land you a good job. Had you not gone into chemistry you would have had to work on something else or end up as a poor high school teacher.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:27:43 2015 No.7582546

>>7582536
Not yet. Currently taking an Abstract Algebra class.

I'm not particularly excited for real analysis honestly. It seems like it will be really dry and tedious.

Also, how does one study for analysis? Wouldn't you just treat it like any other math class?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:31:35 2015 No.7582549

>>7582542

You're confused, pal. The crux of what some people are trying to argue here isn't that pure mathematics majors don't have it hard when it comes to finding jobs, but rather that the subject matter is not any harder than other STEM fields.

How is it my fault that chemistry jobs are more in demand than pure mathematicians?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:40:31 2015 No.7582562

>>7582546
In a lot of earlier math classes, being clever is usually enough to get by, especially in ODE, Linear Algebra, and Calculus I-III.

However, my experience with real analysis is that it demands precise memorization of a lot of proofs and definitions, which requires a lot of time, dedication, and discipline. It does require cleverness in the sense that the reader must understand each step to commit it to memory and call on it cold, but the amount of time required and the process is foreign to a lot of talented students.

If you are a hard worker, it is not a big deal going through every line of a proof to ensure you understand it. I notice a similar block with junior/senior physics students: many get by their first three years by committing important formulas to memory and applying it on a test, but there is a point where the advanced students need to go through derivations of equations line by line, understanding each step thoroughly.

TLDR: there reaches a point in math where being disciplined is measured in your grades, so many students fall off.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:46:57 2015 No.7582566 >>7582562 This. Seriously, a first course in real analysis is a joke aside from the work required to learn the methods. I thought I'd love analysis but entering these classes it turns out I love algebra

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:52:48 2015 No.7582571

>>7582549
What I'm confused by this point is why the fuck you care about the workload of other peoples' majors? Clearly all of you have to much time on your hands if you can commit this much energy to such a stupid fucking argument. You all must be insecure if your degree has to be considered hard for you to feel satisfied.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 03:03:19 2015 No.7582676 >>7582421 Fizzbuzz is literally babby tier programming. Unless you're going to ask people to write it in assembly, it would not exclude undergrad math majors who have not taken any compsci classes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:16:04 2015 No.7582732 >>7581903 CIS, don't even consider doing IT.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:22:14 2015 No.7582738

>>7582000
>why can mathematicians enter engineering graduate school? I
Uhm, they can't?

At my university only science majors can enter it, then they need to take 1-2 years of undergrad classes before they can start postgrad and they don't even get an engineering masters in the end, they get a masters in applied science. It's mostly meant for people intending on industry research who want a background in materials or control engineering.

Mathematicians aren't allowed at all unless they double majored with at least 2 years worth of credit in physical sciences. Then they have to take the same route and also don't get an engineering degree.

That's why I would never tell anyone to get only a pure degree even if they are 100% deadset on academia. Always couple a pure degree with engineering or you close way too many doors.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:24:45 2015 No.7582739

>>7582033
Any programme that doesn't start discreet+proofs in year 1 and analysis in year 2 is utter shit.

And even then it's still a light programme.

So typical of you Europeans. You aren't even close to a Western level and then you argue in our major politics threads.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:26:08 2015 No.7582740

>>7582738
>Always couple a pure degree with engineering or you close way too many doors.
The only door it closes is working as an engineer.

If one does not wish to work as an engineer, it would be utterly foolish to pursue an engineering degree.

While the job prospects for a pure science or math degree are more competitive and generally lower paying than for engineering, they at least cover a range of different fields and applications rather than simply working as an engineer in one specific field of engineering.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:27:22 2015 No.7582742
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>>7582506
tl;dr

your pleb-tier babby math degree O(N^2) algorithms with terrible synchronous thread management can't compete with my CS degree O(1) algorithms and asynchronous threads

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:28:30 2015 No.7582743

>>7582048
>Even if you come in with a shitty background you can do your years 1-4 outline in 2.5 years easy, then start taking grad classes
This guy gets it. That's the point where you start getting respectable, but that's still a light courseload albeit difficult. If you really want a career in STEM you should also be taking more physics, modelling and dynamics classes.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:32:44 2015 No.7582748
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>>7582399
being able to pickup positions as a developer doesnt necessarily mean you're a good one

if you dont know and understand compilers, operating systems, data structures you're not going to be a good software developer

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:33:28 2015 No.7582750
File: 137 KB, 477x935, Math careers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7582147
>http://www.maa.org/careers
Thank you for posting this.

Notice how there are no appsci or engineering options.

These are decent careers, but those who thought you could get a STEM career are delusional.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:38:41 2015 No.7582756 Meme fields ranked in order of uselessness 1. Math 2. Physics 3. Computer Science Underrated fields ranked by superiority 1. Chemical/ Electrical/ Mechanical Engineering 2. Medicine 3. Misc. physical sciences (geology, climatology, biology, etc.)

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:39:06 2015 No.7582757 >>7582542 I can't fucking believe you're trying to compare taking certs to a guy who's doing an entire chemistry degree.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:40:50 2015 No.7582760 >>7582571 Please tell me you are at least not that pathetically autistic to not realize the glaring irony of what you just posted.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 05:01:50 2015 No.7582795

>>7582750
>http://www.maa.org/careers
If you would look at the other links posted there, you would see this one. Sure it's a math dept. however, the point is very easily made.
Mathematical Modeling. This is being used more and more in almost any field. You know this, we know this, the future employers know this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 05:11:11 2015 No.7582808 >>7581317 Don't buy it, sounds like someone who wants to feel superior for not doing math. That you don't mention any tech firms implies to me that you know nothing about the modern job market for math, which looks quite bright.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 06:56:14 2015 No.7582900

>>7582740
I'm saying this as the ChemE who also holds a Physics B.

You don't quite understand industry or how people there think.

"Engineering" is applied science only to a more professional extent including a more rounded education in business management, law, economics and engineering practice etc. All those jobs you are talking about is available to any engineering degree holder and usually only taken by weak engineering candidates who can't find other jobs. In the petro-, chemical and pulp industry for example you'll never find a job posting asking for BSc that doesn't also ask for BEng, but not vice versa, you aren't asking for a BSc to fill a control engineer's job.

>they at least cover a range of different fields and applications rather than simply working as an engineer in one specific field of engineering.
Right see, but this is again wrong, engineering programmes have a more diverse scientific background because on top of the first two years studying pure physics, chemistry and app. math (which is more applied math than you'll encounter in your entire pure math degree), they also learn about biology in BiochemE, pharmacology in engineering kinetics etc. and many other fields. Engineering covers far more appsci than you think on top of the engineering specific courses.

You are also wrong about "one specific field of engineering", a ChemE will have many courses in EE to a second year level, CivilE up to strength of materials, share transport with MechE etc. Just like an EE will also have some training in Chem and material science. That's why the word "engineer" is often used colloquially to mean people with basic training in engineering disciplines.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 06:57:17 2015 No.7582902

>>7582740

An engineer is considered to be "trained" -aside from all the engineering and non-STEM disciplines- in physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics. Because in the real world each industry has it's own science you need to study up on anyway, and so it's actually true the training they had is all they need, since the new science you need to learn builds from the fundamentals, not the cutting edge of the field. They are considered capable and professional enough to quickly learn anything they need.

A chemistry graduate is considered to be trained in chemistry and mathematics. You will be placed in a lab monkey grinder and you will stay there because no one respects your background enough to promote you out low level tech positions.

That's what we mean when we say pure BSc isn't a "professional" degree, because of the very limited exposure to science they had. If you only have a BSc or MSc you will be put in a team filled with other lab monkeys and you will be taking orders from an engineer- because in industry only an engineer is considered capable of leading multi-disciplinary teams to their wide background. Given /sci/s ego most people in that position would kill themselves (while people in the real world are more humble).

So in conclusion, it doesn't just "close the door for working as an engineer.", it closes the door for working as a STEM professional. The only way to reopen that door is to go all the way with a PhD; or to go back fro an engineering degree like I did. So like I said, if someone specifically says they don't want to stay in academia for long, then recommending pure degrees is like recommending English lit. to someone who wants to be a lawyer. Just stop doing it. It's not productive. if you're struggling to recover your ego from struggling with something as easy as a math undergrad degree, then you should consider leaving stem altogether instead of spouting fantastical bullshit on /sci/.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 07:01:19 2015 No.7582907

>>7582795
>Mathematical Modeling. This is being used more and more in almost any field.

By people in the field.

I don't think you understand what modelling is if you think a math major will be good at modelling in an applied science field. Doing the actual math is the easy part. Developing a good model from physical principles is what's difficult. It requires creative problem solving skills, not rigorous proofs and autism.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 07:07:14 2015 No.7582918

What do you guys think about a double major in applied math and computer science?

I have two options
1)double major math/compsci at the most renomated uni of my country (which only as a "good" math/compsci course)
2)major in applied minor in compsci at the best technical school of my country, which has a good reputation, but isnt that famous overall. this school has the best compsci course

so basically double major at a prestigious uni with an ok course of major/minor at normal uni with the best course

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 07:08:16 2015 No.7582921 >>7582918 German? Do 1. Otherwise do 2.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 07:26:26 2015 No.7582937 >>7582921 yes wieso? why should i do 1?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 07:47:29 2015 No.7582961

>>7582748
I can concede that. In fact, I hope it is the case that compsci majors are better at computer science.

>>7582907
I've done mathematical modelling in biology and physics. The latter required I take a few relevant graduate level classes, but the previous just required that I work closely with the biologists collecting data.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 07:57:11 2015 No.7582977

>>7582750
From my experience, there are only a few engineering options. I will post a few from SIAM (Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics) http://jobs.siam.org/jobseeker/job/24793608/Principal%20Process%20Simulation%20Engineer/__company__/?vnet=0&max=25&str=1

http://jobs.siam.org/jobseeker/job/25104063/ANSYS-R&D,%20Matrix%20Solver/__company__/?keywords=engineer&vnet=0&max=25&str=1

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 08:19:41 2015 No.7583003

>>7582977
When they say applied math, they really mean applied math, as in it should say that on your degree, there aren't many degrees like that awarded, but the programmes include a lot of applied science classes, essentially what we've been recommending in these threads all along to couple your math degree with appsci. Especially things like cosmol and cfd you won't get much experience with that if you didn't some form of engineering or applied physics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 08:35:05 2015 No.7583021 >>7583003 Yeah, I agree. Although I must say that the pure math classes have helped me tremendously with my applied math degree, what helped me the most was taking a lot of internships in different fields.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 09:05:21 2015 No.7583047

>>7582381
>assembly language
Little to no real use in the real world, unless you have a very niche job that actually uses it. Sure it's always helpful to have a vague familiarity with it, but you could easily do that on your own time without paying thousands of dollars to have a college teach it to you.
>computer architecture
For the most part, same argument as above.
>data structures, analysis of algorithms
If you think there's anything monumentally difficult about these (especially for a math major) you're fooling yourself.
>interpreted vs compiled languages
You could literally learn this in 10 minutes

You have a decent point with the OOP and Operating Systems bit, but again, you could feasibly learn both those on your own time. Or just take a single class on each, and not worry about fulfilling CS degree requirements.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 09:50:56 2015 No.7583098
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>>7581241
I'm in a similar boat to you OP, I posted pic related in the engineering thread, you might wanna look at both (pic related answers you question, the replies below are attempts to answer the question I raised in pic related)
>>7579425
>>7579515
>>7581293

>>7581266
>Maybe engineering. But depends on your minor.
Here's a question I've been struggling with for a while, how does a maths grad sells themself over an engineering grad when applying for engineering? The answer that this thread seems to give is "by getting qualified in engineering".

>>7581406
>-Professor/Tenure track (the usual)
I wonder, how is this in the UK? Where can I learn more?

>>7581479
>And what about you engineers? By the numbers showing how over saturated your market is, it is so obvious that you choose engineer to go for the easy quick buck.
Source? (even better if it's from the UK)

>>7581516
>Engineering firms hire everyone form lawyers to biochemists to artists.
How do these people sell themselves over actual engineers?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 10:40:15 2015 No.7583164

>>7583098
>Here's a question I've been struggling with for a while, how does a maths grad sells themself over an engineering grad when applying for engineering? The answer that this thread seems to give is "by getting qualified in engineering".

Leadership experience that demonstrates your diversity is the number one thing I would suggest. For example, join a robotics team/club and actively participate or see if you qualify to join some engineering organization to work alongside engineering students, who usually need quite a lot of help with math, especially with Diff Eqs. The trade off is you learn some methods of analyzing engineering problems.

>I wonder, how is this in the UK? Where can I learn more?
There are a lot of great organizations that are dedicated towards helping math majors find practice and jobs. I'm in the USA, so I don't intimately know the UK specific organizations. However, I know SIAM has a UK branch. Their website is here: http://www.siam.org/

I found the London Mathematical Society, but I cannot vouch for its efficacy: https://www.lms.ac.uk/careers

The absolute best thing you can do is be involved with the math faculty at your university. The professors and grad students have the best insight on what you should do, especially if you state that you are interested in participating in the private sector/industry. Talk with the professors who instruct your class. Go to math faculty events where undergrads are invited. Don't be like most students who think a degree alone will earn you a great job. You have to mingle, participate, and develop & demonstrate leadership skills in college. Try to get internships and/or REUs for the summer. The latter is a wonderful experience because you will be surrounded with clever people in your field who enjoy their subject, and you get paid a fair sum.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 11:19:23 2015 No.7583199 >>7582900 The fuck is this bullshit. Literally none of what youwrote is true with regards to engineers having knowledge in other areas.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 11:38:25 2015 No.7583221

>tfw all your physics/math major friends don't have jobs in their respective fields.

One of my buddies that double majored in math and physics finished school and now works at fuckin KFC.
My other buddy that did physics (started with IB programs etc) works as a programmer after giving up job searching for a year.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 11:40:51 2015 No.7583225 >putting the infinitesimal in the the numerator Thats pleb tier mathematics

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 11:48:37 2015 No.7583238 >>7583221 Fuck off, he started working there on purpose you faggot. Besides, he's starting in econometrics next year.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 11:50:26 2015 No.7583242 >>7583238 Lol I wish that was true

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:30:01 2015 No.7583297

>>7583098
>How do these people sell themselves over actual engineers?
For example environmental engineering uses a lot of biochemistry knowledge. As does most food processing and biochemical engineering processes.

To answer your question, the key selling point is "you can pay me less", which is just fine when you already have enough CEs on the team. Eventually as you gain experience you will be paid very well though. There's more than enough money to go around at engineering consulting firms.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:31:50 2015 No.7583300 >>7583199 t. Person who didn't get into engineering and has never seen an engineering study guide. It's all 100% true btw.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:59:40 2015 No.7583336 >>7581476 >implying sitting on your ass and have food and housing and love and money isnt a smart move

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:10:16 2015 No.7583349 CAN WE HAVE AN ACTUAL THREAD ABOUT CAREERS FOR PEOPLE WITH MATH MAJORS FOR FUCK'S SAKE? >HURR LE ENGINEERING MATH IS HARDER THAN MATHEMATICS MATH FUCK YOU! THIS THREAD IS FOR CAREER DISCUSSION, NOT FOR YOUR PHYSICS OR ENGINEERING ELITISM FUCK OFF

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:27:44 2015 No.7583375 >>7583349 >engineering elitism Didn't know such a thing existed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:39:10 2015 No.7583387 >>7583349 That's not what happened at all. Everyone was discussing realistic math career pathways and then some Swedecuck took a break from letting Jamal fuck his boypussy to spout his math elitism nonsense.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:49:16 2015 No.7583494
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>>7583047
>You have a decent point with the OOP and Operating Systems bit but again, you could feasibly learn both those on your own time

Then why dont I get a B.S. in Psychology and apply to a developer position if I "learned" everything a B.S. in Computer Science major took?

You shouldnt go to a university to learn. If people did, they would audit all of thier classes. People should take University classes to get certified.

How do I know someone really "learned" all of this information in their free time? There are tests for a reason

Operating Systems is a very complex topic and its not something you can pick up without a basic knowledge in discrete math, architecture, systems programming( multi-theaded programming in C, knowledge of assembly language)

inb4 math majors take discrete math, because I had a question for a math professor with pigeon hole theory and he couldnt answer because he hadnt taken discrete mathematics before

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:32:22 2015 No.7583569

>>7583300

It's 100% false. I was considering an electrical engineering degree for my BS. EE degree is 100% EE courses besides the general ed courses(so 1 term of baby chem, 3 terms of baby physics, and a term of biology). EE degrees don't require any material science courses or any other non EE topics.

Conversely ME has 1 or two Materials Science courses but requires no EE(and in fact it's not in the plan of study).

Engineers are taught about their specific subject, your claims about engineering are becoming more and more absurd.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:38:59 2015 No.7583579 Math may not have the greatest prospects but I see people in stats getting hired everywhere.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:16:16 2015 No.7583648

>>7583569
Not him, but I don't know what uni you went that you didn't cover it, sounds weird that your curriculum is so light. Are you sure it was even accredited? US state school?

Here's my undergrad ChemE curriculum:
Sem1 (20)
>Chemistry 4
>Chemical Engineering 2
>Physics 4
>Humanities & Social Sciences Elective 2
>Manufacturing and CAD 4
>Calculus I 4
Sem2 (20)
>Organic and Physical Chemistry 4
>Chemical engineering 2
>Electricity and electronics 4
>Humanities & Social Sciences Elective 2
>Mechanics [statics] 4
>Linear algebra 2
>Calculus II 2
Sem3 (20)
>Organic chemistry II 3
>Physical chemistry II 3
>Chemical engineering materials 2
>Programming 4
>Strength of materials 4
>Differential equations 2
>Calculus III 2
Sem4 (22)
>Statistic for Engineers 2
>Analytical Chemistry 2
>General Thermodynamics 4
*>Electrical Engineering 4
>Mathematics 4 [eigen vals/vectors applied to systems of ODEs, convergence, power/fourier series, PDEs]
>Numerical Analysis 2
>Departmental Elective 4
Sem5 (18)
>Chemical Thermodynamics 4
>Mass transfer 4
>Transfer processes 4 [fluid mechanics and intro to HT]
>Particle technology 4
>Engineering Management 2
Sem6 (20)
>Heat transfer and piping design 4
>Kinetics 4
>Chemical engineering laboratory 4
>Process dynamics 4
>Departmental Elective 4
Sem7 (20)
>Biotechnology 4
>Process control 4
>Process synthesis 4
>Reactor design 4
>Research project I 4
Sem8 (20)
>Design project 8
>Chemical engineering practice 2
>Process analysis 2
>Research project II 4
>Specialization Elective 4

*Sem4 EE (taken by EE majors in 3rd semester) as an example covered microelectronics (semiconductors, diodes, transistors, logic gates, biasing etc.), power engineering, signals and filter design, analog-digital instrumentation and machines (motors/generators). We used Zekavat's text for this. steady+transient analysis, AC, three phase etc. covered in sem2 circuits. So a fairly broad exposure to fundamental EE. All disciplines except Civil I think has to take it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 23:51:06 2015 No.7584283 >>7581241 Any job you want, m8. Any job you want.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:02:13 2015 No.7584302 >>7581276 Would be smart If i took computer science BS then take math MS?

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:16:09 2015 No.7584322

>>7581923
Kinda true. I'm a nuke who had an A+ in all of my engineering math(calc 1,2,3,, ,diff eq, linear algebra) and I have the highest GPA in my class. I just got a 21% on my first analysis exam. Granted the class average was a 40% and had a bimodal distribution. I enjoy it, but I suck at it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:16:25 2015 No.7584551 >>7584322 bimodial? doesnt that imply some kind of bias?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:55:57 2015 No.7584595 File: 216 KB, 1187x1024, 1420934980283.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7584322 >NUKE E MASTERRACE GUIZ :---DDD

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 07:15:08 2015 No.7584770 Bitches, look here, scroll down to the maths part. http://www.hecsu.ac.uk/assets/assets/documents/wdgd_september_2014.pdf I'll dissect this later.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 08:04:32 2015 No.7584801

It really depends on the topics you have studied. If you've been up to your neck in abstract algebra or number theory then most of that is pretty fucking useless outside of your specific field. But if you've done analysis/PDEs/statistics you can find something related to those. You can also find work on some theoretical physics project that is related to your degree.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 08:48:18 2015 No.7584842 File: 10 KB, 429x410, compmootreaction.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How about a stats major whose also double majoring in CS?

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:15:45 2015 No.7584867
File: 69 KB, 444x653, Boat.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7581241
Ok OP, I have a serious answer for you. Sadly since I've been in the same boat as you for a while, I'm gonna have to repost this a lot now that I've got my answer, and I've posted in many different threads.

==Pasting begins here==
Source for all of my claims: http://www.hecsu.ac.uk/assets/assets/documents/wdgd_september_2014.pdf
Sadly, I couldn’t extract anything about finance from this data, because it lumps finance into 'Business, HR and finance professionals' (which is 2.2% of all graduates) but this ought to make a point, as far as I'm aware when this survey says "Chemistry" it means the pure science type, not stuff like Chemical Engineering.

Anyway, note the following, all data is taken from 6 months after graduating:
Among all employed graduates, 4.2% were 'Engineering and building professionals'
0.6% of employed Biology students were 'Engineering and building professionals'
2.7% of employed Chemistry students were 'Engineering and building professionals'
2.7% (not a typo) of employed 'Physical and Geographical sciences' students were 'Engineering and building professionals'
10.5% (wow!) of employed Physics students were 'Engineering and building professionals'
Let's not mention Sport Science
>For me [and you OP], here's the kicker, 1.9% of employed Maths students were 'Engineering and building professionals'
Computer Science was 1.4%, which makes me wonder if they lumped the jobs Computer Engineers do into IT jobs.

For engineering however, I don't even need to go into the specifics, the highest unemployment (defined as being NEET) in ANY field of engineering was 9.8% (that's not as bad as it sounds, the average for all degrees is 7.3%) and the lowest percentage actually working in engineering was 33.6%, although I should note that both of these weird figures were both from Electrical Engineering where people often apply for IT jobs, outside of that specific field, it's usually 6-7% NEET and well over 50% of engineers working in engineering.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:17:02 2015 No.7584868 >>7584842 Learn some finance, and you'll probably be golden.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:19:01 2015 No.7584871

>>7584867
>>7581241
Let me hammer that home, over 50% of engineers who are working are in engineering jobs. These are new graduates, 6 months after graduating, their CVs can't really be all that outstanding.

This tells me two things:
1) Engineering isn't fucking oversaturated or being outsourced or any shit like that, if it was, you wouldn’t see half of the new graduates getting jobs as fucking engineers.
2) While I can't at all conclude that pure science/maths graduates are hopeless at getting engineering jobs (clearly they're not, some of them have done it), it doesn't look very hopeful either, with the exception of physics, all of the pure science/maths areas have a higher percentage of people working in 'Retail, catering, waiting and bar staff' than they fucking do in engineering. Think about that for a moment, open a prospectus for a university or something and look at maths, I fucking bet it mentions how you can end up in engineering. Do you think that after all that propaganda, so few pure science/maths students would be trying for engineering jobs? I fucking doubt it.

Going back to an earlier point I made, >>7583661 (ignore any claim I didn't source) the only fields of engineering that say, a maths grad could get into would be Civil or Mechanical. Well, good fucking luck - 70.6% of Civil grads work as Civil Engineers, and it's 64.2% for Mechanical.

In short, fuck this - I'm a first year student in the UK studying maths at a Russell Group uni which means the propaganda told me that I could get a job in Engineering, but I believe I have debunked any claims that I have any chance doing so.

...I give my thanks to /biz/ and /sci/, if it weren't for you guys posting so many unsourced claims about saturation, I would still be sitting here today stuck between choosing finance or engineering as a backup plan, and now I know that engineering is not a valid choice... now I can only hope that I don't find the same of finance, anyone got any sources?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:20:44 2015 No.7584873 >>7584867 >>7584871 ...that's the end of the paste, thoughts? It took me a while to work through all those stats but hopefully I've made my point, and made OP a happy anon.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:34:05 2015 No.7584887

There are many idiots ITT.

Firstly, what do you mean by jobs for a maths / stats major? If you mean a job outside of academia that can only be done by a maths major, using specialised maths skills that a physics / engineering student doesn't have, then the answer is...... very few.

If you mean a job that a maths major can do, can easily apply for and get, the answer is... many. Most graduate jobs don't require a specific degree. Repeat after me: Most graduate jobs don't require a specific degree! Nobody on 4chan can realise this! Nobody on 4chan realises that jobs such as accountant, investment banker, civil servant, many corporate function graduate jobs (finance, HR, operations), business consultancy DO NOT REQUIRE SPECIFIC DEGREES.

IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR REAL ANALYSIS SKILLS AND GET PAID, YOU'RE FUCKED. BUT YOU'RE NOT FUCKED IF YOU DO A MATHS DEGREE.

Also I did an engineering degree. I hated it. I troll engineering so much on /sci/, I regularly get accused of being a physics student lol. But even though I think engineering is a brainless load of shit that any maths of physics student could easily do professionally, that doesn't mean I think they can have access to tonnes of engineering jobs. Most engineering companies advertise most roles to only engineering students because they need to train them less.

Also many 4chan users have no perspective and are extremely dumb when using stats. They literally google "job stats" and see "engineer starting salary is £X while for maths graduates it's £Y". I don't accept that this is ever a valid line of argument. I just don't. Why would I judge my career choice based on information that's taken from mostly dumb people (i.e. most students), who wouldn't have even gone to university 20 years ago? I'm not competing with them. There are also other factors that I won't go in to here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:37:06 2015 No.7584888 >>7584887 Fuck me anon, you should've posted like half an hour ago, I'd fucking love your opinion of the 4 posts above you (>>7584868 is not mine).

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:38:19 2015 No.7584890

>>7584887

Also one more short note. Why does nobody on 4chan know that many graduate schemes are aimed at students of any degree, even liberal arts? My guess is that it's because most 4chan students go to low tier universities where many graduate employers don't bother to advertise themselves. These 4channers think that the big 4 pay high wages. Many of these 4channers go to Podunk Community College and transfer to Rinkydink State Technical College. They graduate and then apply to Mom and Pop's Local Engineering Company which is located in rural Buttfuck.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:48:22 2015 No.7584897

>>7584888

honestly I have no opinion except that you should get good grades, apply for internships as soon as your penultimate year starts, buff up your CV with bullshit roles in university clubs and hope that you're a normalfag. This is if you want to have a job outside academia.

I've applied for many engineering jobs and a few want maths grads for certain roles. I think BP does. But other than that, your best bet is one of the general things i mentioned

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 11:07:16 2015 No.7584960 >>7582756 This

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 11:08:22 2015 No.7584962

>>7584890
>Why does nobody on 4chan know that many graduate schemes are aimed at students of any degree, even liberal arts?
We know, but no one here wants to do a job a BA in business can do

Also, I'd much rather be one of two engineers at Mom and Pop's, with the freedom to do my own research to expand and advance the business, than to work at a big 4 as part of a team analyzing a single rivet on a project that might get scrapped anyway

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 12:04:38 2015 No.7585058 >>7584867 >>7584871 >>7585053 >>7585057

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 12:14:12 2015 No.7585073

>>7584887
>Most graduate jobs don't require a specific degree. Repeat after me: Most graduate jobs don't require a specific degree! Nobody on 4chan can realise this! Nobody on 4chan realises that jobs such as accountant, investment banker, civil servant, many corporate function graduate jobs (finance, HR, operations), business consultancy DO NOT REQUIRE SPECIFIC DEGREES.

You're the idiot. No one wants to work in those jobs, that's the point, people here want to work in STEM.

>Also I did an engineering degree. I hated it. I troll engineering so much on /sci/, I regularly get accused of being a physics student lol.
You're that britcuck loser who has never posted his time stamped degree which is why we don't believe you. You're also wrong on almost everything you say and you don't understand the industry at all.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 12:20:26 2015 No.7585081

>>7584890
Deloitte and KPMG are at our engineering career fairs every single time and no one gives a fuck about their stands because people actually care about doing interesting work.

I know this is hard for some bitter asshole like you to understand, but some of us are actually good candidates who have options.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 12:27:43 2015 No.7585089

>>7581330
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
You can walk into a job as actuary with a BS in buttfucking so long as you pass FM and P and can program a bit. A lot of people transition from other careers with two exams under their belt but the competition is heating up to 3 average.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 12:39:44 2015 No.7585099 >>7581241 >What jobs are out there None

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 12:59:12 2015 No.7585128 >>7582756 Biology and climatology should not be in the same tier as geology. At least with geology you can hope to get a job in your field.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 13:02:26 2015 No.7585135 >>7584595 Not at all. I just said math is harder.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 13:03:38 2015 No.7585138 >>7584551 It means there were 2 peaks in grades instead of just a normal curve. One peak was at about 5% and the other was at 75%.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 13:04:42 2015 No.7585139 >>7583569 You do get at least one material science course in EE here because of how important semiconductors are. I suppose it's mostly the same everywhere.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 13 03:18:07 2015 No.7586404 Should I double major math with theoretical CS or Stats?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 13 06:44:21 2015 No.7586524 >>7582739 >Europeans M8 even here in bumfuck Turkey math majors take discrete and proofs in the first year and advanced calc in the second.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 13 06:56:09 2015 No.7586532 >>7581276 this. literally fucking this.

Anonymous Tue Oct 13 08:47:42 2015 No.7586634
File: 2.99 MB, 480x320, 1357594074957.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>mathfags think they can walk into engineering jobs
>no experience
>have never designed anything in their entire lives
>gaping hole in engineering coursework that they think can just be 'learned on the job' upon hiring
>their entire knowledge of the field is based on googling and /sci/ memes
>their major is so detached from real world application that this is what they actually believe

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 13 22:17:38 2015 No.7587818 >>7581276 My wife has a BS in math and is a six digit actuary. So yeah no that's not true

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 13 23:55:23 2015 No.7587945 >>7581276 >MSc to become an actuary Thanks for the laugh

Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:05:09 2015 No.7587961
File: 24 KB, 276x280, friendly slav.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>engineers think they can walk into math jobs
>no mathematical ability
>have never proved anything in their entire lives
>gaping hole in math coursework that they think can just be 'learned on the fly' as needed
>their entire knowledge of the field is based on that math tutor guy from Texas on youtube and "le hardcore engineer" memes
>their major is so detached from mathematical rigor that they actually believe their curriculum is "one or two classes short of a math major", since they took a one semester class on PDEs

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:11:07 2015 No.7587969 >>7587961 >math jobs stopped reading

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:13:05 2015 No.7587974 >>7587961 u mad bro?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:13:06 2015 No.7587975 >>7587961 >engineers think they can walk into math jobs >math jobs >math >jobs Pick exactly one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:17:20 2015 No.7587980 >>7586634 >engineering coursework >implying real coursework >knowledge of the field >engineering >knowledge wow

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:19:18 2015 No.7587984 >OP asks legitimate question with no mention of engineering >mathfags flip out and start attacking engineers Poetry

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:23:05 2015 No.7587989 >>7587984 Why are engineers even in this thread in the first place? It's a question about job prospects for math majors. Are you this lacking in self awareness?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:26:54 2015 No.7587997 >>7587989 I'd assume because they decided to read the thread or give some advice but noticed the insults coming from insecure math undergrads

Anonymous Wed Oct 14 00:37:51 2015 No.7588010

>>7587975
I cannot believe how strongly engineers hold to their ignorance just to feel superior.

I know that your classes are not inspiring and you want to kill yourself so you think the only thing that makes it worth it is that you are going to get good money while (somehow) everyone else studying anything else will starve to death.

In this thread there have been many posters, some even citing examples, showing what kind of jobs people with a bachelors in mathematics can do.

The most common are Statistician and Software Developer.
Cry all you want "boo hoo in my state you need a license to write code or else the FBI comes to your house and shoots you in the head!"
, your bullshit is clearly just that.

Both of this jobs can be done in many industries and your general understanding of mathematics (that can be applied literally anywhere) will help you, not only being one of the best candidates in hiring, but also at getting used to what your job is, whatever it may be.

Anonymous Wed Oct 14 01:10:57 2015 No.7588043

>>7581477

Pardon me, did you just say something to me eh? I'll have you know I graduated at the top of my class in the Canadian Politeness Force, and I've been involved in numerous secret runs to Tim Hortons, and I have over 300 confirmed friends. I am trained in welcoming warfare and am the most passive aggressive member of the entire canadian population. You are a person that I have yet to make friends with. I will talk to you with kindness the likes of which have never been seen before on this earth, mark my passiveness. You think you can get away with not saying thank you? Think again, neighbour. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of syrup drinking moose across the northern territories and your IP is being traced so you better prepare for the gift baskets, buddy. The gift baskets that not only contain Gift cards, but donuts from tim hortons too. You're gonna be befriended, guy. I can be nice anywhere, anytime, and can be nice to you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just if I write letters. Not only am i extensively trained in passive aggressive combat, but I have access to the entire moose army of the Canadian Maple Leaf Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to welcome your friendly ass right into the neighbourhood. You little neighbourino. If you had only known what friendly retribution your comment was about to bring down, maybe you would have eaten poutine with me. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're gonna let me pay the bill because that's how nice I am, guy. I will put you in the hospital and it will cost nothing cause our healthcare is free. I'll say sorry now, friendo.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 01:22:24 2015 No.7588058 >>7588010 ... really those are pretty grim jobs for a math major, i'd much rather go into academics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 02:56:49 2015 No.7588165 >>7588058 Stats Can did a recruitment campaign presentation to the seniors in my math department. Their jobs actually seem pretty awesome. It's a good backup for someone who's primary career goal is academia.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 02:59:20 2015 No.7588171 >>7588043 This makes me cringe. You're trying too hard. >neighbourino >friendo At least get what we say right fgt

Anonymous Wed Oct 14 03:02:49 2015 No.7588176

>>7588171

wot the fok did ye just say 2 me m8? i dropped out of newcastle primary skool im the sickest bloke ull ever meet & ive nicked ova 300 chocolate globbernaughts frum tha corner shop. im trained in street fitin' & im the strongest foker in tha entire newcastle gym. yer nothin to me but a cheeky lil bellend w/ a fit mum & fakebling. ill waste u and smash a fokin bottle oer yer head bruv, i swer 2 christ. ya think u can fokin run ya gabber at me whilst sittin on yer arse behind a lil screen? think again wanka. im callin me homeboys rite now preparin for a proper scrap. A roomble thatll make ur nan sore jus hearin about it. yer a waste bruv. me crew be all over tha place & ill beat ya to a proper fokin pulp with me fists wanka. if i aint satisfied w/ that ill borrow me m8s cricket paddle & see if that gets u the fok out o' newcastle ya daft kunt. if ye had seen this bloody fokin mess commin ye might a' kept ya gabber from runnin. but it seems yea stupid lil twat, innit? ima shite fury & ull drown in it m8. ur ina proper mess knob.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 04:15:06 2015 No.7588255 >>7581241 I am graduating with a BS in applied mathematics and statistics and am currently interviewing for some data scientist, analytics consultant, statistical analyst, etc. positions. Learn to program.

Anonymous Wed Oct 14 07:38:34 2015 No.7588429

>>7588058
Why would they be grim for a math major? You would be using your logic and mathematics all day in the workplace.

Maybe there is the argument that it is not as prestigious as academia but I said these are jobs for someone with just a bachelors in mathematics.

I did so because if I said "jobs for people with a phd" then engineers would flip out "eww that doesn't count! Nobody even goes to math graduate school... rite?"

Academics is the option of the very few. There will always be people who felt that they reached their cap of intelligence and won't even dare go for a masters. Some others simply want to start making money after college.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 09:16:00 2015 No.7588535 >>7582739 Analysis is a first year course

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 10:09:22 2015 No.7588612 >>7588429 Eh m8, what about masters?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 14:50:52 2015 No.7589124 >>7587945 >Thanks for the laugh What's wrong with it? I'm in my first year of a 4 year course that gives me a masters in maths and I'm strongly considering actuary.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 14 14:53:56 2015 No.7589134 >>7588176 >homeboys Not even good bait. I've never heard that word said in the entire UK, never mind Newcastle.

Anonymous Wed Oct 14 17:53:09 2015 No.7589537

>>7588612
I'm not too sure, It really depends on what your master is.
Some people have said that some mathematicians take engineering classes as their masters and become engineers.

However, one masters available in my country (and the one that I plan to take after I graduate) says that it qualifies you to lead a research team in anything*.

The master description doesn't say "anything" but they make it clear that the skills being taught in the master classes can be applied anywhere.

But people here have said that in general, someone with a masters in mathematics can do consultancy.

Anonymous Wed Oct 14 17:59:15 2015 No.7589541
File: 45 KB, 640x427, 1443823835996.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7589124
>>7589124
>tfw you need a masters in insurance mathematics to work as an actuary in Sweden
>tfw when only one uni teaches it
>tfw shortage thanks to everyone that likes math goes engineering meme
>tfw artificial shortage since everyone that wants to enter the field needs 2 years of study

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 15 11:44:36 2015 No.7591280 >>7589541 >>tfw you need a masters in insurance mathematics to work as an actuary in Sweden Fucking wow.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 15 11:48:20 2015 No.7591288 >>7589124 Because the only thing that matters I'm being an actuary is number of exams you've passed and relevant internships. No need to do a master's, at least in the USA.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 15 11:55:10 2015 No.7591303 >>7581241 >What jobs are out there for a Math major? What jobs for a Stats major? Starbucks.

Anonymous Thu Oct 15 20:53:19 2015 No.7592528

>>7581241
I wanted to be an actuary before college, but when I got there found that math classes really challenging and the work load was not what i was expecting, and there was no way I could pass the Act Sci exams if I couldn't even get through Calc III so I just ended up getting a B.S. in Finance. After I graduated, I thought that getting a masters in math would aid me in becoming an actuary. I kinda helped I took exam P, and it kicked my ass.

I have alotta respect for people who can pass those exams. I wanna take it one more time with more online class support and more studying time. But if that's the route you choose, study alot!

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 05:38:38 2015 No.7593364 >>7592528 Any more tips for future actuaries?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 05:52:22 2015 No.7593379 >he fell for the actually fell for the non-professional graduate school meme for what purpose

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 08:05:02 2015 No.7593493 >>7581317 >>7581322 Truth tbh fam.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 08:17:28 2015 No.7593509 >>7581241 actuary is probably among the highest paying jobs for pure mathematicians. (although it is just statistics)

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 08:24:34 2015 No.7593515 >>7581317 Those engineers you meet are physicists. PhD in physics are often hired as engineers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 08:37:41 2015 No.7593533 For stats you can do a masters in biostats to go into bioinformatics or epidemiology. For some reason a lot of mathfags forget about these careers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 08:46:25 2015 No.7593546 >>7581382 >And know, engineering students your age where solving PDEs while you were still working on epsilon-delta proofs. >Implying maths majors don't learn how to solve PDE's first year of their bachelors.

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 09:21:55 2015 No.7593611

>>7593515
No, they are engineering degree holders. Stop falling for your department's propaganda.

> PhD in physics are often hired as engineers.
I've never seen that happen and it's illegal in most states. Physics PhDs are hired as scientists. Which generally translates to a lower payroll in the private sector. However, PhDs (from all disciplines) can quickly get promoted into running a research group, but in departments are never assigned engineering duties. Mostly product development.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 09:25:01 2015 No.7593614 Most people aren't hired for their degree fam.

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 09:33:28 2015 No.7593623

>>7593614
Most people in professional degrees like engineering are. The problem is that people don't realize that pure degrees don't actually prepare you for a career in STEM.

See
>>7584867
>>7584871
http://www.hecsu.ac.uk/assets/assets/documents/wdgd_september_2014.pdf

The reason you have the majority of people with math degrees working minimum wage service jobs in "'Retail, catering, waiting and bar staff" is because they never coupled their pure background with professional degrees.

To reiterate advice already given in this thread, your undergrad pure degree is worthless if you don't couple it with in applied degrees/certification. Whether in appsci, finance or IT, do more. Your are NOT doing enough if you're only taking pure degree courses. If you think that you can't take a higher course load because your undergrad is too difficult for you then you do not belong in STEM. Give up now and save yourself some time, money and disappointment.

The only exception to this is if you're 100% deadset on gunning for academia. In which case you will also find benefit in coupling your math degree with a physics degree and vice versa anyway.

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 10:51:22 2015 No.7593752

>>7593611
Its illegal to hire engineers with just M.Eng. They need the P.Eng not a degree. Most jobs circumvent this by hiring them as engineers as technicians or another buzzword. But outside of Civil engineering no one cares about the P.Eng. Except for government jobs. PhD in Physics often get hired as engineer, and that's not a big secret. They have better knowledge of the field than engineers. This is why engineers are called the midgets of science. You guys have this inferiority complex and attack EVERYONE. Not to mention engineers are often regarded as the least liked employees. In a research capacity, engineers are not a priority hire. Those are reserved for pure science. This is what you failed to understand. Physics/Chem/Biology grads are hired to work in labs with their graduate degrees. Engineers are hired to follow the instructions given by the scientists. Anyone whose been in the real science world would know this. But you're a shitposter on a Ugandan Origami board.
>hurr durrr enjoy making less than six figures
Statistically speaking so are engineers. Most engineers make less than 80k. Its a field that reaches its max earning potential early on their career.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 10:59:54 2015 No.7593771 >>7589541 >>tfw you need a masters in insurance mathematics to work as an actuary in Sweden What the fuck?

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 11:00:44 2015 No.7593774

>>7593752

In the states I am in you can geta PE license with any degree so long as you work under an engineer for 4 years and pass FE exam. Alternatively you can get a masters in engineering degree and get license in additional states. It may not hold across all states BUT most jobs dont even advertise for PE license.

It's more or less strictly a civil engineering requirement.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 11:29:11 2015 No.7593823 >>7593771 masters in sweden is considered standard

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 11:44:01 2015 No.7593845 >>7581317 So much this

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 11:48:55 2015 No.7593849

>>7593752
>Its illegal to hire engineers with just M.Eng. They need the P.Eng not a degree.

Wrong. It's called an EIT which everyone with a B can register as even before passing the FET, as long as you have one senior engineer the EIT can legally work as an engineering.

> Most jobs circumvent this by hiring them as engineers as technicians or another buzzword.
No they are hired as technologists because they do technologist work.

>But outside of Civil engineering no one cares about the P.Eng.
Wrong again. In the first place it's extremely important in the chemical, nuclear and aerospace industries. Secondly no one is going to hire you when there are hundreds of REAL quality engineering candidates.

> PhD in Physics often get hired as engineer,
I've never seen it. Physicists aren't trained as engineers. They'll are hired to supplement R&D departments and consulting firms since they are cheaper to employ than having yet another mechanical engineer on the time. Not hired into real engineering positions- especially any of the important high-paying disciplines (NOT mech/civil). Which again is illegal.
>and that's not a big secret.
Apparently it is.

>Engineers are hired to follow the instructions given by the scientists.
You will be taking orders from an engineer. You should get used to this fact before you blow you brains out.

>The rest of your post.
Have fun in IT. You deserve it.

>Anyone whose been in the real science world would know this.
So not you? I've worked at a national lab before, nothing you say is true. It's not how STEM works at all. I've only ever seen delusional viewpoints like yours on /sci/.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 11:54:26 2015 No.7593860 >>7593849 >physicists are less important then nuclear engineers when it comes to nuclear topics. Yea no, I'm calling bullshit. Nuclear engineers design tubes, people with PhDs in nuclear physics work on the actually interesting parts.

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 11:57:09 2015 No.7593865

>>7593860
You are delusional beyond belief or a freshman that really shouldn't be talking about an industry he knows nothing about.

Do you have any idea how tight regulations are in the nuclear industry? A physicist will never be permitted to even look at a reactor design in his life time.

This is just sad I don't even know if you're serious or just trying to troll with overly obvious bait. In any case you are not worth replying to anymore.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 12:04:57 2015 No.7593877 >>7581382 Jesus, dude. I dropped ChemE on second year and I know how to solve PDEs Not falling on the anti-engineer circlejerk, but try harder.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 12:45:10 2015 No.7593981 >>7593614 this applies to non professionals, yes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 12:46:44 2015 No.7593987 I kindly advise all math majors to minor in some kind of engineering or non stem field if you don't want to fall victim to dunning kruger effect.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 13:08:00 2015 No.7594061 >>7593877 Epsilon-delta proofs are at least second year. Or did you attend one of those weird unis where your math curriculum doesn't start real analysis in the third semester?

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 14:00:45 2015 No.7594211

>>7593623
>The reason you have the majority of people with math degrees working minimum wage service jobs in "Retail, waiting, catering, and bar staff" is because they never coupled their pure background with professional degrees
I completely agree with you that it's best to couple a pure degree with something applied/professional but did you even read your own source? The percentage of math graduates working in the categories you listed (of those who went into the workforce after graduation), is only about 9%, which is NOWHERE near the majority.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 14:01:28 2015 No.7594213 >>7594061 As I said, I was doing ChemE. Can't speak for other unis, but Real Analysis it isn't even mentioned there.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 14:07:01 2015 No.7594230 I-is majoring in math with a minor in CS a okay?

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 14:17:42 2015 No.7594255

>>7594211
I misspoke I meant "major" as in a large portion of graduates (I mean think about it that's almost 1 in 10 of GRADUATES) with the majority not working in STEM.

Something which is quite shocking for university graduate of any degree to imagine. I mean I'm reading this in more detail now and might be reading this wrong, but PhDs in applied math and theoretical physics and MSc Quants seem to be included in these stats?!?

Also am I reading it right that the majority of those in "further studies" for mathematics is doing a "postgraduate qualification in education" ie teaching.

I was going off the other anon's pic and summary before. This is far more depressing than I imagined. I don't know why I'm still in STEM holy shit fuck my life I'm ending it all ;_;

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 14:23:16 2015 No.7594270 >>7594230 I mean look at the stats, none of it really matters if you aren't in the top 10%, engineering isn't perfect either as we've seen ITT. It's all fucked anon. Just do your best.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 16 16:28:45 2015 No.7594568 >>7594255 >(I mean think about it that's almost 1 in 10 of GRADUATES) It's not, it's almost 10% of grads who are in employment 6 months after graduation, but point taken.

Anonymous Fri Oct 16 16:48:10 2015 No.7594616

>>7594255
>Something which is quite shocking for university graduate of any degree to imagine. I mean I'm reading this in more detail now and might be reading this wrong, but PhDs in applied math and theoretical physics and MSc Quants seem to be included in these stats?!?
If I'm not mistaken, that list is the ones who are in further study... naturally the DPhil in CS would go into the CS category if it worked differently.

>Also am I reading it right that the majority of those in "further studies" for mathematics is doing a "postgraduate qualification in education" ie teaching.
Only just the majority, overall it's weird as well it's 36.3% of the 22.7% of graduates who are in further study who are in teaching, that is 8.2% of maths grads (which means that there's almost as many unemployed maths grads as maths grads who want to be teachers).

Look on the bright side... 46.3% have full time jobs, and I can only assume that those who want to teaching will get jobs, and I'd hope that PhD=job (...I really need to find more info on how to get into research), so overall that's like 58% of employed or highly employable maths grads, and I'm ignoring those who are working part time or are working and studying, I've even ignored those who are doing masters (who could well be those supposed maths degree engineers that I have claimed barely exist).

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 08:12:45 2015 No.7595887 >>7594616 >I'd hope that PhD=job Does it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 08:50:34 2015 No.7595916 >>7581241 Actuary/Quant

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 10:43:49 2015 No.7596076

>>7581317

This....they lack a lot of the knowledge in the basic sciences. I'm a chem E with an applied math minor, so I've taken classes with math majors. There is absolutely no way you would let them work on anything important. The knowledge is way too specialized.

Hell even a chem major I talked to had do like 14 remedial courses before being admitted to a chem E masters program.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:08:18 2015 No.7596120 >>7596076 They lack specialized knowledge, but they have an interesting insight. Take Turing and morphogenesis for instance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:22:39 2015 No.7596133 >>7594061 >not doing epsilon delta in the first year >burgerland

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:26:35 2015 No.7596140 >>7596133 this burgerland MSc math = first world country 2nd year BSc

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:28:21 2015 No.7596145

>>7596076
I agree but you people are seeing it in the wrong way.

Just like you there was a guy saying that someone with a pure degree wouldn't be allowed to even touch a reactor.

Of course fucking not. Our education has nothing to do with that you do or with what nuclear engineers do.

But the reality that people don't want to accept is that there are plenty of jobs in statistics in both research and industry. Businesses need actuaries and other financial positions. And a Math guy can make programs that solve more complex problems than a CS guy so they are often hired in software companies.

People here don't want to accept these facts. Every time a fellow math major makes a thread like these a bunch of engineers jump in to fabricate lies about what careers we can get in.

I'm tired of this. It hurts me just thinking that maybe these assholes have convinced a really good mathematician to give up and switch to an engineering degree. So much wasted talent.

Lies: Every engineer in this thread
Truth: http://www.math.uh.edu/~tomforde/Web/Jobs.html

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:35:54 2015 No.7596153 >>7596145 Well said. Math> engineering

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:39:41 2015 No.7596159

>>7596153
I don't want to join in the discussion of who is better.

I believe that anyone getting any STEM degree can live a fulfilling life in a well-paying and interesting job.

However, threads like these make me wonder if engineers think alike. They seem to have such an inferiority complex that it is sad.

Why do engineers feel the need to shit on every career thread? They have obviously never read a serious article about the career threads for mathematicians of pure scientists so why do they join in such massive numbers to spew bullshit?

Maybe one day I will take a walk to the engineering department in my university and take a look at the engineering students to see what makes them so angry and insecure.

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:45:21 2015 No.7596168

>>7596145
>Truth: http://www.math.uh.edu/~tomforde/Web/Jobs.html
No, you fucking retard.

You are literally posting the very department brochures that spread the delusional lies that people have been combating in this thread.

THIS is the truth:
>>7584867
>>7584871
>>7594255

Your entire post completely misunderstands the point of this thread, and you try to turn everything around to protect your ego in your delusional eco chamber (just look at how quickly this stupid cuck chimed in >>7596153).

Most of these posts ITT aren't written by engineers to feed your stupid high-school tier major politics and egotistical circlejerk. They are people from various backgrounds posting because of how badly the truth about the discipline is distorted, and to encourage students to make wiser, informed decisions about their education*. You can continue to ignore the advice given in this thread, just don't come back to /sci/ in 3 years posting on your phone about how oh-so-fucking smart you are in between your shifts waiting tables.

*(Notice how almost none of the posts recommend dropping math entirely! They recommend coupling it with an applied science/math degree useful in industry!)

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:49:43 2015 No.7596177 >>7596159 Ah, yes, the eco chamber builds.

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:50:25 2015 No.7596179

>>7596168
I won't come here and say that there are not many under-achieving math majors. I would also be lying if I did.

But are you going to tell me with a straight face that a mathematician can not be:
An actuary, computer programmer, Information scientist, mathematician, numerical analyst or statistician?

All of those jobs, except for computer programmer, need specifically math majors.

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 11:56:06 2015 No.7596185

>>7596179
You do realize that people on /sci/ actually want a career in SEM and not be a code monkey or working in finance right?

In fact if you actually read the thread you'd see the engineers posting ITT aren't here trying to shit on math, they are pointing out to the initial posters that only holding a math degree does not get you a career in engineering or at engineering firms like they said.

But yeah no, keep believing they are just angry and here to shit on a field for no reason when they are actually giving out legitimate advice for how to get into a SEM career from a math background.

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 12:05:37 2015 No.7596204

>>7596185
>a code monkey or working in finance
Literally ignoring half of the positions I mentioned. Being honest, I was not expecting any better from you.

As a math major, I see nothing wrong with working in finance or as a 'code monkey'. Everyone in the software industry starts as a code monkey because as a new guy, your boss won't trust you with anything important unless you have experience and maybe a masters. But you can climb the ladder from here and get a good and interesting position.

For finance... well... that is your job. I myself wouldn't work in finance but it is not a bad job if it pays well. May even be interesting if you are into that. Why not?

You are assuming many things here. You seem to think that people in math majors somehow chose it by mistake and now we must be educated before its too late. I chose my degree for a reason and I have very clear goals for myself. Goals that drive me to, on the side, also work on a portfolio that will guarantee me a job when I graduate.

Abouth math guys not getting jobs as engineers. I agree. That is stupid. There is engineering school for a reason.

But yeah no, keep believing every mathematician in the world is just starving and here to trap other people in the field for no reason when they are actually giving out legitimate advice for how to get into a good mathematics career.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 12:46:41 2015 No.7596287 >>7596204 I totally agree with this guy. Maths major is not that bad. I have seen math majors earn up to 6 figure salaries or more. And also, I do not choose math just because it will get me a decent job, but also because I like studying math.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 13:24:35 2015 No.7596365 >>7596204 Did you teach yourself a programming language after you got your degree? I'm not sure what I'm going to do after I graduate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 13:26:05 2015 No.7596373 >>7596365 What major and minor do you have?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 13:27:35 2015 No.7596379 >>7596373 Double major in physics/math. The only programming we did was a bit of python. What languages would be useful now?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 13:27:36 2015 No.7596380 >this thread is still going after more than two weeks

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 13:31:43 2015 No.7596387 >>7596379 Self taught programmer is rarely any good though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 13:32:55 2015 No.7596390 >>7596380 >can't even count days Are you an engineer?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 14:49:33 2015 No.7596542 >>7596140 >MSc math >Not MMath Pleb.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 17 14:54:37 2015 No.7596555 >>7596204 >For finance... well... that is your job. I myself wouldn't work in finance but it is not a bad job if it pays well. May even be interesting if you are into that. Why not? What don't you like about finance?

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 16:05:54 2015 No.7596702

>>7596365
I taught myself 5 competitive (as in heavily used in industry) languages that are each used in completely different tasks to the others.

I still haven't graduated but I plan on getting certifications from a technical school for some of these languages so that finding a job becomes easier.

>>7596555
I do not know. I just have never been interested in finance. In my teen years I was interested in programming. Now that I am in college I am interested in the theory of computation (and that is the reason I joined a pure mathematics program).

I only see myself working in software/algorithms. I wouldn't die working other jobs but works in finance would be my literal last option because I doubt I would be using my programming skills in a job like that.

Anonymous Sat Oct 17 21:04:47 2015 No.7597295

>>7596702
>I wouldn't die working other jobs but works in finance would be my literal last option because I doubt I would be using my programming skills in a job like that.
Apparently you do, most of the job stuff I've seen for finance says "get good with Excel and basic programming".

Anonymous Sun Oct 18 02:13:54 2015 No.7597700

FUCK I can't fucking decide, and I only got less than a year until I take the entrance exam to Tokyo University.
Just give me the straight truth from your POV, I'm desperate, and what kind of jobs and pay I would get.
MATH vs M.Engineering (In Japan)
GO

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 18 06:44:01 2015 No.7597966 >>7597700 Are you Japanese?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 18 09:35:51 2015 No.7598180 We should make a second thread.

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/sci/ - Science & Math