IQ

[Anonymous No.7553854]

Dear /sci/.

Is IQ an accurate representation of intelligence?

What other quantities does IQ correlate with?

Why do East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews have average IQs significantly higher than Whites? (please lets not have some racist bullshit, keep it purely scientific)

And what is your opinion of pic related? Why is /lit/ higher than /sci/?

[Anonymous No.7553856]

>>7553854
>any board on 4chan
>avg iq above 105
no

[Anonymous No.7553859]

How was this data collected?
If it was based off of word usage, it would make sense that someone who in their leisure time visits a board about books, might have a greater vocabulary. It might also explain why some boards are so low, if gibberish words get discounted. I find it suspect that /tg/ a board that caters to a subculture completely based around imagination is of below average intellect.

[Anonymous No.7553860]

[Anonymous No.7553862]

How about focusing on a specific topic which requires human intelligence rather than spatial awareness, remembering 20 digit numbers, or other arbitrary metrics of intelligence?

[Anonymous No.7553863]

>>7553859
An IQ of 99 is only 1 point from 100, it could easily be sampling bias; with the true IQ being slightly above average

[Anonymous No.7553866]

>>7553862

Why focus on something that can't be quantified? This is /sci/ after all.

And IQ is an important predictor of many socioeconomic factors, so it makes sense to discuss them in a rational manner

[Anonymous No.7553868]

>>7553854
>tfw average IQ

[Anonymous No.7553869]

Why do East Asians have such a low incidence of nervous system cancer compared to other ethnic groups with relatively close IQs?

[Anonymous No.7553870]

>>7553854
>Why do East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews have average IQs significantly higher than Whites? (please lets not have some racist bullshit, keep it purely scientific)


Because fuck IQ that's why.

>Why is /lit/ higher than /sci/?

Because /lit/ is actually reading and interpreting the world in a different way. Most posters on here just go to college and practice on Khan Academy.

>>7553860
What does this have to do with anything?

[Anonymous No.7553875]

>>7553870
IQ correlates strongly with salary

>because fuck IQ that's why

Bro, calm down, jeez. Losing your temper easily isn't a very "high IQ" thing to do

[Anonymous No.7553878]

>>7553869

Why are you so Jelly of the glorious master race?

[Anonymous No.7553884]

>>7553875
>IQ correlates strongly with salary


How so please explain. As far as I know, most blacks and Hispanics live in ghettos, so they take up anything that gets them paid as long as they can keep the house fed.

[Anonymous No.7553886]

>>7553878

I wouldn't say I'm jealous.

I'm just interested why East Asians are smarter than Whites. If it's something to do with the gut microbiome, or epigenetics, maybe it can be identified and applied to every individual

[Anonymous No.7553887]

>>7553875
I wasn't even upset I was saying it ironically and a joking manner.

>IQ correlates strongly with salary
But it doesn't.....How the hell did you even pull that?

[Anonymous No.7553890]

>>7553884

Correlation
> a mutual relationship or connection between two or more things.

For the lay person, you map IQ on one axis, and income on the other axis. It happens to display a linear trend

[Anonymous No.7553891]

>>7553866
By that logic, people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, the Walton's, and Saudi princes are the most intelligent people on the planet. Yet, I doubt that's the case.

[Anonymous No.7553903]

>>7553890
>>7553884
>>7553891
Donald Trump, Dr Dre, and P. Diddy are some of the smartest men in the US.

How about that?

[Anonymous No.7553913]

>>7553887
>>7553891
>>7553903

Not necessarily, there are outliers for any group, but the general trend holds true.

[Anonymous No.7553917]

>>7553887
>>7553891
>>7553903

Not necessarily. There are outliers for any group, but the general trend holds true.

[Anonymous No.7553925]

>>7553917
Correlation =/= Causation

[Anonymous No.7553927]

>>7553886
Honestly, it might have something more to do with culture.

[Anonymous No.7553930]

>>7553925
I never claimed it was causation.

I just wanted to start a dialogue with some intelligent individuals on /sci/

[Anonymous No.7553932]

>>7553891

Why do you doubt that? seriously. I don't think he meant that the guy was Einstein or Stephen Hawking (even though they may be only they focus their intelligence in other realms) but close to whom would you relate their intelligence level to?

[Anonymous No.7553934]

>>7553927

I agree that culture can have something to do with it. But there are many "twin adoption studies" that are spread around /sci/ and 4chan in general which account for culture and show that East Asians tend to have a higher IQ than Whites

[Anonymous No.7553937]

>>7553917
>>7553869
>>7553860
Keep in mind, a lot of this is due to one parent house holds.

I grew up in the projects and almost every black person there with me grew up in one parent households.

I think that's the correlation you're looking for.

[Anonymous No.7553942]

>>7553917
If you really want to rank people, it would be best to compare people in their respective categories. For example, in investing the metric would be who had the most profit. Having a better starting point would have to be disregarded. What shouldn't be done is comparing the achievements of Goethe to Newton. It's all a matter of personal preference.

Anyone can train their mind to memorize 20 digits. Spatial awareness is of dubious importance as well. Especially considering most activities which require intelligence require looking at two dimensional objects.

People who obsess about IQ are doing themselves a disservice. All that matters is what you do, not what you could have done.

[Anonymous No.7553972]

>>7553942
I'm not attempting to rank people.

I just want to identify what the factors which lead to intelligence are.

For example, burden of infectious and parasitic disease is one of the greatest predictors of national average IQ. However, many East Asian countries suffer with parasitic infections, so it intrigues me why they have some of the highest average IQs in the world

[Anonymous No.7553982]

>>7553854
This graph is bullshit.

But IQ is a good start to getting a feel for one individuals intelligence.

As a general rule IQ and intelligence are closely linked. But there are, Im sure, exceptions to the rule.

[Anonymous No.7554009]

>>7553854
Of course /pol/ is that low, it's just a fucking neckbeards huddled together wanking eachother off for being white.

[Anonymous No.7554013]

>>7553934
It definitely has to be culture.

[Anonymous No.7554019]

>>7554013
What is your reasoning and/or proof?

[Anonymous No.7554028]

in my experience as an asian man in a predominately white country in the west, white people are capable of doing much more things/ are more well rounded than asians if you look at it, they are more socially savvy, creatively, artistically, and more physically virile. yet, asians have to put in effort, I always see the white people not working as hard as asians to get the same results. probably due to culture. I am sure if western white people were put in an east asian environment they would outperform the asians. white people tend to focus on socializing more and out there, which consumes more energy, asians designed the society of structure so it's basically set up for them. but fuck, I don't get how some white people don't have to try hard to get where they are

[Anonymous No.7554034]

>>7554028
Unfortunately this is /sci/.
Anecdotal "evidence" doesn't hold any weight

[Anonymous No.7554035]

>>7554028
>I don't get how some white people don't have to try hard to get where they are


Well to America home of capitalism. As long as you can make money, it doesn't matter how smart you are or how creative you can be. The rich out perform the smart.

[Anonymous No.7554118]

>>7553859
it's not a real thing.

Just like being able to reduce something as remarkably complex as human intelligence to a single integer value which is precisely measured by a high-school test.
If you practice maths, you get good at maths. And if you're good at maths, you're probably good at IQ tests.

Think about how stupid the concept of IQ is. If you believe in it, you believe that Shakespeare, Beethoven and Nietzsche are intellectually inferior to a spotty teenager with zero social skills, zero human empathy and zero ability to create that spends hours practicing for IQ tests. He may make a reliable accountant one day, but that doesn't make him a genius.

Higher IQ generally correlates with more money because the people with the lowest IQs fucked around in school, learned the least and therefore are least likely to have professional discipline and employable skills. These people also suck at taking tests, hence low IQ.
And the people with high IQ learned to succeed academically, pass tests and are more likely to have better degrees and therefore better jobs.

But hey if all of that is too complicated for you to accept, then just believe the simple explanation. "IQ is intelligence", it works for a lot of half-bright Asian guys who really, really want to believe that they're better than others. Like this >>7553878 anon who appears to consider himself to be from an intellectually superior master race, but actually is just a weirdo who saves blurry pictures of narcissistic boys on his computer.

[Anonymous No.7554124]

>Why do East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews have average IQs significantly higher than Whites?

Could be a multitude of reasons,

Maybe the founder populations for those two groups could have had a higher IQ average than whites at the time.

Maybe certain events thinned out said populations left mostly the able bodied and minded to live.

Maybe better overall nutrition and dieting habits played a part.

Maybe culture promoted mental growth, the jews having literature heavy religious practices and east asians with philosophical observations and imperial examinations.

Maybe local/ regional parasites and diseases were more lax in terms of body energy consumption (i.e. either they're severe enough to outright kill the host or does subject host to harsh chronic sickness).

Take your pick or choose all.

> And what is your opinion of pic related? Why is /lit/ higher than /sci/?

My opinion is, where's the source for this info and what's the sample size?

>>7553934

>But there are many "twin adoption studies"

Twin adoption studies don't provide info on the generational genetics that preceded it. Nor does it observe the gene expression that occurred before the children were born.

None of the charts I've seen floating on this site has once provided any info on the family genetics/health beyond maybe a passing mention of the mother.

[Anonymous No.7554130]

>>7554124

*does not subject host to harsh chronic sickness).

[Anonymous No.7554141]

no

[Anonymous No.7554157]

>>7553869
High Asian IQ is a result of primarily environmental selection over tens of thousands of years, rather than cultural selection over a thousand years like Jews, so they tend to have less neurological issues and a more balanced IQ (Jews have a 20 point spatial-verbal gap).

>>7553886
1.Latitude. Northeast Asians are also the most northern race of people (barring inuits). Northern people in general tend to have larger brains not just from environmental factors, but to see better in the dark (bigger occipital lobes, so improved spatial ability). Brain size and intracranial capacity have a .4 correlation with higher IQ. You might ask then, why aren't they lighter skinned and a why do they have lower nasal heights than whites? Asians ate a lot of seafood, which obviated the need for less melanin and they do have a higher angle (at least of the internal nasal cavity). The nasal cavity is set deeper and higher in the face.

2. Selective factors. Asians developed a high IQ around the time they crossed the Siberian Taiga, the Gobi Dessert and Himalayas. The extreme temperature and environmental variations between and within these regions, scarcity of food and dark winters meant high selective pressure for people who could think the furthest ahead, plan for contingencies, and react to the vicissitudes of nature. This resulted in an average IQ of about 105-109 for Korean, Japanese, Manchurian and peripheral Chinese people. Mathematical abilities (taking count of stocks) spatial intelligence (remembering terrain, seeing warning signs in the environment), and verbal abilities (communication between tribe members) would all have risen during this period. There is a common belief in the anglosphere than Asians have a lopsided IQ (lower verbal high spatial/mathematical), but that's European languages are second languages to Asian immigrants. Koreans score 554-538-536 M-S-V on the PISA, in their own language (similar trends hold true for other Asian countries.

[Anonymous No.7554168]

Ashkenazi Jews have a pretty high IQ on average, because for hundreds of years they were forced to work in banking and were banned from doing bue-collar jobs. So basically all the Jews in Europe were working white-collar jobs. Since intelligence gives people in white-collar jobs an advantage, the more intelligent Jews ended up producing more offspring than the less intelligent ones. This caused the average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ to slowly increase over time.

I'm not sure why East Asians have a higher average IQ than most other races.

[Anonymous No.7554206]

>>7554118
IQ is a requirement of intelligence. All great musicians, chess players (Kasparov 135, Bobby Fischer 180), mathematicians and scientists (Feynamn 126, Hawking 160 (max score for adult IQ tests) that took the IQ tests got at least 95th percentile. It's squares and rectangles, not all people with high IQ are intelligent, but all intelligent people (in terms of academic and career success) have high IQ's. Not to mention, motivation and conscientiousness are the other important factor in intelligence/success. https://edwardberger.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/gpa_sat.jpg

If we use SAT as a surrogate for for IQ (they have a .79 correlation), then we see that for every point of SAT/IQ (fluid intelligent) there is variability in achievement (GPA) which can in part be accounted for by self discipline and the personality traits aforementioned.

>>7554157
Continued.
3.Cultural and Societal selection. The Chinese did have one form of cultural selection towards greater IQ. For two thousand years, China used the imperial examination system to select intelligent people from all social classes, and allowed them to attain wealth and power through merit. Obviously, wealth and power correlate with higher fitness. That, along with modern Chinese economic pressure (migrating into the city from the countryside), results in a Shanghai/Beijing average IQ substantially higher even than surrounding Chinese and East Asian regions at 112-118 (117 math, 112 spatial, 111 verbal)

4. Diet. Chinese regions in the west, with low accessibility to seafood and other iodine rich foods, have average IQs between 75 and 90, while eastern regions, despite malnutrition in the past century, maintained an IQ average above 100 due to high iodine consumption (one sheet of nori contains half your daily iodine). A lot of other seafood nutrients are beneficial to brain health, though I can't name them.
Also, part of the flynn affect can be attributed to the addition of iodine to salt in America

[Anonymous No.7554218]

>>7554157
The Asian people that did not experience these environmental selective pressures (South East Asians have an average IQ in the eighties).

>>7554206
European countries with healthier diets, such as Greece, France, Italy, Holland and the Scandinavian countries maintain an average IQ despite the decreasing IQ in countries like the US and the UK. In fact, the average IQ was shifted two points recently, to match this decreasing average. So the UK/US average of 98 is now 100, Asians from 107 to 109 and Northern Europeans from 102 to 104

[Anonymous No.7554227]

>>7554028
This reads exactly like something a white person pretending to be Asian would write. This is that "whites are more creative-artistic" argument that whites make in reaction to any mention of an Asian-white IQ gap. In fact, there is a high correlation between IQ and creativity, with the rest of the variability accounted for by life experiences. High IQ whites are creative, but the other 99% of the population isn't.

Asians born in the first world, and therefore with similar experiences as Europeans and Americans (AKA not growing up in a rice paddy), Japanese and Asians, are extremely innovative, with enormous ouputs in culture, media, invention, and technology relative to their nations' sizes.

[Anonymous No.7554230]

>>7554118
Those are composite pictures of hundreds of Asian men... idiot. Also the average age of those photos seems to be late twenties to mid thirties.

[Anonymous No.7554238]

>>7554124
Twin studies are THE method of comparing heritability of traits.

The heritability of IQ of twins is like .85 when raised together vs. .74 when raised apart, proving that a large of part of IQ variation in human population is accounted for by genetics.

[Anonymous No.7554241]

>>7554157
How interesting. Source for the information?

[Anonymous No.7554242]

If you look at the IQ's of "highly intelligent" people by the world's standards (scientists and mathematicians), they would all be substantially above average. And it's convenient that the large, societal perception is that if you have a mind for math and science, you are intelligent. But there really is no way to quantify intelligence with a test or by valuing the minds of people in certain fields. There are so many cores and facets of life that require different mind-sets. That's why I marvel at renaissance men, and guys that were talented in many different aspects. Some of the greatest mathematicians and scientists can't figure out how to have sex with a woman... I mean, isn't that the most distilled purpose of existence? Or the same high IQ people can't socialize or relate to anyone, or play sports or music, etc. They may have a frame of mind catered to logic, but not to much else. And that brain, tuned for science and math, would produce a very high IQ.

Sorry for the rant anyway, just my two cents.

[Anonymous No.7554247]

>>7554241
I don't have the exact sources sadly... but a lot of my information came from Richard Lynn's books on IQ, Stephen Hsu's Info Proc, wikipedia's page on IQ, Myer's Psychology, 2012 PISA results, some article on latitude vs intracranial capacity, and my protractor.

[Anonymous No.7554261]

>>7554168
>I'm not sure why East Asians have a higher average IQ than most other races.
i don't really think they have, it's just selection bias, there were some revelations about cheating on IQ and scholar tests

[Anonymous No.7554265]

>>7554242
A lot of great mathematicians and scientists don't have time for hos. They generally ascend human irrationality and impulses.

Einstein, Schrodinger and Feynman were known to sleep around though.
>That's why I marvel at renaissance men, and guys that were talented in many different aspects
It was easier to be a renaissance man in the past, because there was less knowledge in every field.
> the same high IQ people can't socialize or relate to anyone, or play sports or music, etc. They may have a frame of mind catered to logic, but not to much else
It's true that people with very high IQs turn to math and science, because they are so elegant in their representation of nature and truth, but successful writers, realist painters, architects, and millionaires also tend to have IQ's in the top decile
High IQ people are generally globally intelligent. People who are good with words tend also to be good with numbers and logic, and vice versa. There is also a significant correlation between musical and artistic abilities with IQ, though smaller than the correlation between mathematical ability and IQ. Not to mention, people with higher IQs tend to have faster reaction times, because their neural connections are more fficient and better wired. If you look at football, the positions that require the most skill such as quarterbacks, running backs and wide receivers have the highest average wonderlic scores.
Furthermore, people with higher IQs are generally less violent and more empathetic, as people between IQ 70-90 have the highest rates of committing crime (though there are exceptions such as Ted Kaczynski). The highest IQ profession of all is actually philosophy (tied with physics). Reasoning the fundamental natures of man, reason, the mind, ethics and value take an incredible amount of brain power.

[Anonymous No.7554277]

>>7554261
>>7554261
Keep rationalizing the gap. You don't think the media is biased against Chinese people? If you want to quote figures, 75%-98% of American college students have cheated 59% of Americans have cheated in the past year. Not to mention, cheating on a national exam will get you banned for life. When they say Chinese cheat, it's in the same context as American high schoolers, class quizzes and tests.

[Anonymous No.7554283]

>>7554227
this sounds like an insecure asian

you see? anything sounds like what you want it to sound like.

everybody knows east asians are smarter in some ways and whites are smarter in some ways.

[Anonymous No.7554285]

>>7554261

It's virtually impossible to cheat on an IQ test. You're face to face with a psychologist who records your basic mental arithmetic, speed at solving mazes, verbal reasoning, digit span and symbol encoding abilities. There's no memorization or preparation.

[Anonymous No.7554286]

>>7554238

The IQ heritability isn't the issue, the issue is that we know little about the sample's past genealogy beyond the their mother.

The twin adoption studies are just comparative analysis of current behavioral influences on genetics when separated from their origin population. It gives no insight into influence their genes were subjected before they inherited it.

It tells only part of the story not all of it.

[Anonymous No.7554290]

>>7554283
I don't think you're very well acquainted with scientific research.

[Anonymous No.7554295]

>>7554277
>When they say Chinese cheat, it's in the same context as American high schoolers, class quizzes and tests.
I don't think you understand how much Chinese people cheat. There was a riot in China once when they tried to stop people from cheating on an exam.

[Anonymous No.7554296]

>>7554286
I don't see the relevance of the mother's genealogy to the IQ variation between twins. twin adoption studies are a way of testing whether or not certain traits are caused by environments or genetics, it's the best way of "giving insight" into the influence of genes onto heritable traits.

[Anonymous No.7554300]

>>7554295
I do, actually... I've taught English to Chinese students for a couple years now. You don't know anything, because all you hear about China is through some second rate online news outlet. Cite your sources.

[Anonymous No.7554303]

>>7554300
>Second rate online news outlet
From Chinese friends actually.

[Anonymous No.7554305]

>>7554303
Get your anecdotal evidence the fuck out of /sci/

[Anonymous No.7554312]

>>7553854
>users were identified by the board they visited most

i call absolute bullshit
there is no way that you found more than one person who claims their home board is /i/
that place is a ghost town, they have threads that have been up for years, YEARS

[Anonymous No.7554313]

>>7554312
it is BS. People only believe it because it "seems" legit anecdotally speaking.

[Anonymous No.7554316]

>>7553869
Rice and noodles instead of big macs

[Anonymous No.7554317]

>>7554312
>>7554313
no one believes this lmao, read the caption up top, it's funny, it's a joke, lighten up

[Anonymous No.7554321]

>>7554265
why build the dichotomy between art and mathematics when you could just say they are both forms of organized meaning. elements are combined and like chemistry meaning emerges from them that is wholly different than the mere sum of the parts because it is meaning that depends on the order or syntax of the elements as well as their plain combination. mathematics, literature, music, poetry - it's all just organized meaning.

you're ability to understand and then go onto develop emergent properties - those unified properties of an object/idea/symphony which arise after the sum and order of the parts are understood - probably shares a lot of the same poorly understood mental tasks as are involved in language. language too involves the understanding and creation of emergent properties from elements. a word is made of only letters yet have meanings that transcend those of mere letters. so on up the chain for sentences made of words, paragraphs made of sentences, novels made of paragraphs.

the ability to create ultimate unified meaning from elements is intelligence. the more complex the "rules" are in the combinations and emergences of meaning, the more intelligent the art requires you to be.

in this view i believe the smartest people on the planet are undoubtedly composers, mathematicians and physicists. only in those fields do you see organization of meaning that is so awesome, counterintuitive and thorough that it sometimes feels alien. though i may be partial to composition. i dont know much about literature/poetry. i highly doubt there's that much difference between a great poet and a great mathematician. in the abstract, the job is pretty much the same and requires the same mental tasks.

[Anonymous No.7554328]

>>7554321
Bravo.

The only thing I have to disagree with is that these mental tasks are poorly understood. The people who invented IQ tests have attempted to answer the question of what these shared, unifying mental processes are for the last century. There's thousands of books and hundreds of thousands of papers on the topic of g the factor and similar concepts.

[Anonymous No.7554332]

>>7554285

>There's no memorization or preparation.

For preparation there is, if you live in a culture that is built around testing you are most likely aware of structurally similar testing methods. Also if you have any interest in math/good at math you already have a leg up since an important part to IQ testing requires shape and pattern recognition.

IQ testing in general tends to favor those with higher numeracy, thus why mathematicians (and math heavy careers) do consistently well and african populations who do poorly on it also have higher rates of lower numeracy.

[Anonymous No.7554350]

>>7554296

> I don't see the relevance of the mother's genealogy to the IQ variation between twins.

When conducting twin studies it's important to identify if you are dealing with Identical twins or Fraternal twins. Secondly twins differ from the rest of the population because their mother may come from a family that has a higher predisposition to twin/multiple child birth and there is a difference in the dynamics of fetus interaction in the womb between single and multiple.

Again though my point stresses more towards understanding the genetics and gene expression of the generations before the mother though. Since the twins inherit information from them too.

[Anonymous No.7554358]

>>7554350
Yea NO SHIT. Monozygotic twins, everyone is already aware of that.

I still don't see how the mom is relevant, because the identical twins would have had the same mother and are genetically identical. They're comparing what happens to two genetically identical beings placed in different environments. Since the only thing different about them is their environment, and not their genes, their difference can be attributed to environmental factors.

[Anonymous No.7554412]

>>7554358

If you're comparing twin sampling between different populations using adoptive studies. Why are the mothers not also included to do a comparative analysis between birth mothers from said populations.

For instance, how many mothers from x population suffured from and/or is the product themselves of a malnutrition fetal pregnancy? Same question would be ask for y population. Once that's done you sample mothers who did not suffer from fetal pregnacy themselves or is not born from one.

Then you compare the results to see the difference between the mothers and children. Afterwards you chart behavioral dieting habits of said children in adoptive environments and compare current IQ with possible growth of IQ from any changes to dieting practices.

This is what getting at with mothers needing to a part of those studies. Also it's not the twins themselves that I'm interested in but the comparison between the different sets of twins the background of how their sired and family genetics.

[Anonymous No.7554417]

>>7553854
Where is /r9k/?
Why is /fit/ smarter than /g/?

[Anonymous No.7554716]

>>7554412
Most people on /sci/ have never heard of epigenetics. It's a sad state of affairs

[Anonymous No.7554754]

>>7553854
My sides are higher than /lit/'s "double-blind cross referenced" average IQ

[Anonymous No.7554820]

>>7554412
That does make sense. That's why you can compare just on twin to the population I guess. If you took a large, randomized sample, I think things would be fine though.

And in this case, everyone besides the whites would have had, on average, more malnourished parents.

[Anonymous No.7554824]

/f/ represent

[Anonymous No.7556058]

>>7553868
It's like being born a cripple, but you don't get any sympathy for it.