/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.7490303]

Hey /sci/

What's absolute zero like? are there temperature fluctuations in this state? when the universe expands into maximum entropy, is anything going to keep happening? Will the mechanism of expansion continue doing its thing?

[Anonymous No.7490394]

Absolute zero is defined as the point at which all movement stops, even at the molecular level.

When absolute zero is reached, time stops, because time is nothing but a measurement of movement.

by definition, it is impossible for anything to happen.

The only thing that could possibly happen theoretically is movement begins again, thus allowing things to "happen", however due to the nature of absolute zero it would be impossible for movement to even start again.

Please correct me if im wrong, im retarded.

[Anonymous No.7490402]

>>7490303
>What's absolute zero like?
Roughly 1K colder than 1K

[Anonymous No.7490412]

Does reaching 0k violates the heisenberg principle?

[Anonymous No.7490418]

Is it possible to go below absolute zero?

[Anonymous No.7490422]

>>7490418
Almost certainly not. That would break all the logic we've ever developed about the nature of our universe, and I'm not sure our faculties could readily reconcile it. It wouldn't even be about negatives anymore, as they wouldn't properly describe it.

Heh, maybe time would move backwards or something.

[Anonymous No.7490425]

>>7490422
>Almost certainly
Dude...

[Anonymous No.7490428]

Absolute zero temperature is a physical impossibility because it violates the heisenberg uncertainty principle. A particle in a zero energy state would have both a definite speed (0) and position at the same time

[Anonymous No.7490430]

>>7490425
There isn't any case where I claim absolute certainty.

[Anonymous No.7490431]

>>7490412
See
>>7490428

[Anonymous No.7490432]

>>7490412
yes

[Anonymous No.7490478]

>>7490431
>Making references of a latter post to a former post
Anon, what are you even doing with your life?

[Anonymous No.7490492]

>>7490428

Not true. You can even go below absolute zero.

http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-gas-goes-below-absolute-zero-1.12146

[Anonymous No.7490496]

>>7490428
>I don't know what the uncertainty principle is
An atom can exist at 0K but as soon as you measure it then it won't be at 0K so Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is not violated.

3/10, made me reply.

[Anonymous No.7490545]

>>7490394
>When absolute zero is reached, time stops, because time is nothing but a measurement of movement.
lel godel

[Anonymous No.7490631]

>>7490492
>There does seem to have been a lot of confusion caused by this article, possibly because some of its content was incorrect. In the original Science article, the authors explained quite lucidly what they had achieved and justified their claims with correct thermodynamic arguments. Unfortunately, in this piece by Zeeya Merali, she made the grave error of claiming the researchers had achieved temperatures below absolute zero. This was simply untrue as the original paper showed. Temperatures below absolute zero are simply not possible; achieving them would necessitate violating both the Second and Third Laws of Thermodynamics. No; odd as it may seem, due to the definition of temperature, negative temperatures are hotter than positive temperatures. This has been well known and accepted since the pioneering work of Purcell, Pound and Ramsey in the 1950's. My authority for making these claims follows from a lifetime of work in thermodynamics with a particular interest in the laws and their interconnections, as well as an examination of negative temperatures and their place in Carnot cycles.

>Correcting most previous authors (because they are wrong), the issue here is fairly well explained in the wikipedia article on the subject . Essentially negative temperature here refers to a thermodynamic property of the system that is perhaps divergent from the ordinary definition in this case. Temperature here defines the rate at which entropy increases as thermal energy is added to the system. Ergo, negative temperature relates to a state where adding energy at least incrementally might decrease the entropy of the system. Negative temperature is not exactly new, the originality of this research relates to the relatively macroscopic nature of the negative temperature system. The lede of this article needs to be read with this emphasis in mind.

[Anonymous No.7490645]

>>7490303

Don't know but that's a nice long cat.

[Anonymous No.7490694]

>>7490496
HUP does not involve measurement in any form, it is an inherent property of all quantum systems.

[Anonymous No.7490711]

>>7490694
but it relies on measurement?

i thought it only existed BECAUSE of measurement, i.e. its all in a probability waveform until its measured, hence why the principle exists in the first place.

if you do not measure it then in the principle does not apply?

please elaborate. im confused.

also anybody ever hear of this? i'd like to know more:
>quantumly entangled particles
>measure one's position accurately
>measure other's velocity accurately
>know both attributes for the same particle of the pair

[Anonymous No.7490742]

>>7490394
>absolute zero is defined as the point at which all movement stops

wrong. there are still atomic vibrations. case in point: helium when cooled to absolute zero will theoretically remain a liquid (in practise we have only come to a few thousandths of a kelving above absolute zero, but it still liquid here too)

>still a liquid

lrn 2 quantum mechanics you pop-sci sperglord.

[Anonymous No.7490749]

>>7490694
wow buddy, you need to go back to QM 101 and really pay some more attention..

[Anonymous No.7490752]

>>7490478
That's the point, it's just supposed to connect those two posts. Is that so hard to understand?

[Anonymous No.7490753]

>>7490711
>>7490749
You guys are confusing HUP with the observer effect.

[Anonymous No.7490762]

>>7490753
Ssshhh. Let them pretend to be physicists

[Anonymous No.7490768]

>>7490418
it's impossible to REACH absolute zero, how would you go beyond lol.

[Anonymous No.7490780]

>>7490753
and you are confusing observer with some kind of anthropomorphic delusion. HUP only comes into effect when a system is perturbed. anon was correct when he states that a system can theoretically be at 0 K, and that measurement would increase its energy.

[Anonymous No.7490785]

>>7490631
>I posted a wall of text I found instead of performing my own experiments

Are you even trying?

[Anonymous No.7490793]

>>7490768
Supposedly some electrons moved from one energy state to a lower energy state hard enough to go below 0K according to this anon's article >>7490492
I'm gonna call bullshit and assume whatever instruments they were using to measure the temperature errored and produced false numbers or if they somehow DID reach 0K it was for a negligibly short amount of time such as a few planck seconds.

[Anonymous No.7490828]

>>7490785
>getting this BTFO
Yes anon, I'M the one that needs to prove thermodynamics wrong! Let's all laugh at me!

[Anonymous No.7490915]

>>7490780
Do you even know what the HUP states?

[Anonymous No.7491297]

>>7490394
then, expansion would slow down and eventually stop as entropy maximizes and thermodynamic equilibrium is realized?

[Anonymous No.7491305]

is the heat death of the universe the same as saying maximum entropy the same as modeling the universe as an ideal gas at absolute zero?

[Anonymous No.7491339]

>>7490303
most people would say it's pretty fucking cold but in fact it is the prettiest fuckingest and coldiest one can get

[Anonymous No.7491370]

>>7490394
>im retarded
Indeed.

[Anonymous No.7491376]

>>7490418
That's like wanting to reverse entropy.

[Anonymous No.7491535]

>>7490711
correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only information you can get from entanglement the spin of the other particle? and wouldn't measuring the speed or position of one particle destroy the entanglement meaning that you wouldn't be able to conclude the other property?

[Anonymous No.7491880]

>>7490303
for a normal human its when their dick shrinks to OPs dick size, for OP its when his dick becomes a vagina

[Anonymous No.7491891]

>>7490418
Look up negative absolute temperatures.

[Anonymous No.7491893]

>>7490631
>Temperatures below absolute zero are simply not possible; achieving them would necessitate violating both the Second and Third Laws of Thermodynamics.
Entripy as you know it is only defined for positive temperatures. So it is possible to achieve negative absolute temperatures without violating laws.

[Anonymous No.7491920]

Scientifically speaking, if you were travelling at the speed of light through an infinite black hole cooled to absolute zero before the big bang, what would the qualia of your perpetual motion machine evolve to be? (assuming that your reactionless drive is able to reverse entropy)

[Anonymous No.7491931]

>>7491920
obviously <span class="math">\int\int\int \frac{e^{i\pi}}{11.(9)}[/spoiler]

[Anonymous No.7491937]

>>7491931
dankest memes

[Anonymous No.7492285]

>>7490303
>What's absolute zero like?
← like this, maaan

[Anonymous No.7492986]

>>7490545
TOKI WO TOMARE

[Anonymous No.7493072]

>>7490412
>>7490428

you got it the other way round. Because of the uncertainty principle 0K is not defined as 'no energy left', but 'the lowest energy state possible', with the zero-point energy left.

No, this energy cannot be 'extracted' or used to power a perpetuum mobile, contrary to what many retards say.

>>7490492

negative absolute temperatures are not really 'below' zero, they are hotter than any positive temperature.

[Anonymous No.7493090]

>>7490303
>When absolute zero is reached, time stops
Wrong. Time stops in gravitational singularities, it has nothing to do with tempareture.

[Anonymous No.7493844]

>>7493090
OP here. I didn't mean to imply that. I'm just trying to conceptualize the heat death of the universe. I know I can't /really/ get it until i have an excellent understanding of math and mechanics. Are you saying that space keeps expanding after entropy is maximized? I am wondering if this can be modeled as an ideal gas at absolute zero, or if the two concepts are unrelated.