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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7393782 No.7393782 [Reply] [Original]

Why is STEM so hyped up when the only STEM degree with job prospects is engineering? No pure science degree has any job prospects, even if you go to grad school
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304096/Graduate-physics-PhD-31-fell-death-block-flats-taking-job-centre-qualified-for.html

>> No.7393786

because its the only respectable work, pretty much

>> No.7393794

>>7393782
I think a degree in math gives a lot of jobs

>> No.7393802
File: 11 KB, 389x324, 1405422572807.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7393802

>>7393794
>I think

>> No.7393807

Why does everyone post the guy that graduated with no publications as an example of how bad having a STEM degree is? I mean, sure, he somehow got his PhD, but having no publications means he probably only did shit work.

>> No.7393810

http://physics.wustl.edu/katz/scientist.html

>> No.7393821

I love the subject OP, I can't imagine doing anything else but Chemistry and the theory of Chemistry in my future.

>> No.7393829

>>7393821
Why not do chemical engineering? There's only jobs for chemists in china and India (shitholes)

>> No.7393836

>>7393829
>Why not take dumbed down tube engineering for the subject you love and care for, which no monetary benefits could substitute

You are what is wrong with this world, engineer.

>> No.7393838

This meme again. The guy was 30, no wonder.

>> No.7393849

>>7393836
Linus Pauling studied chemical engineering and he's a greater engineer than you could ever be. At least a chemical engineering degree would allow you to study the subject you love while securing job prospects but I know what going on here - you were too stupid to get into any engineering program since they are the most competitive programs

>> No.7393855
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7393855

>>7393829
It's just not the same thing, I realise I sound too optimistic about this but I think I'll land a job at the end of my education.

Which reminds me, I shouldn't be here discussing this, need to return to do my work.

Just to share something my Physics professor told me, the banks in my country periodically contact the department for Physics students interested in interning because they like Physics students for their ability to solve problems. We get industry people coming over to talk about working in industry as a Physics/Chem major and picking up some students as interns along the way, even to write their honors/masters thesis.

I will work now, and hope for the best. If you enjoy engineering please go ahead, I like Chemistry.

>> No.7393859

>>7393855
You were rejected from engineering

>> No.7393865

>>7393859
I didn't opt for it, no point discussing it with you anymore.

>> No.7393887

>>7393794
>I think
Work it out with your probability skills.

>> No.7393890

>>7393782
When did the engineers on /sci/ get such a feeling of superiority? This is not the /sci/ I once loved.

>> No.7393896

>>7393865
See >>7393849
I meant to say greater chemist*

>> No.7393897
File: 61 KB, 299x259, 1373769818781.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7393897

>>7393887
>probability
>mathematics

>> No.7393920

>>7393890
Indeed. Is science & math even relevant to engineers? Maybe they should be banned for being off-topic..

>> No.7393926

>>7393890
We've come full circle. New generations of high schoolers were afraid their careers in pure science would be too financially risky or they simply couldn't imagine what possibilities they would offer for them, so they opted for engineering and now they try to prove to /sci/ how are meme engineering degrees the same thing and even more (with tough stuff like ecology, measuring every day and remembering diff equation solutions) as pure math & physics. It's just the result of the dichotomy where they try to persuade themselves they are doing science (by browsing /sci/ for example) just as good as physicists, while going through stramlined applied problems without any research whatsoever.

Just be patient, it'll pass.

>> No.7393928

>>7393855
Did you study physics to go in finance?

>> No.7393943

>>7393928
He's saying that it's a fallback if the lack of appropriate jobs actually doing physics is too crippling.
Obviously nobody studies physics with the intent of getting into finance, they do it for a shot at physics; your question is silly.

>> No.7393944

>>7393920
>>7393926
Nah don't hate on the Engineers, they're cool unless they're OP. Least he didn't outright insult me for being chem.

>> No.7393947
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7393947

>>7393920
>Is science & math even relevant to engineers?
Yes. Stop being bitter that you were rejected by top engineering programs

>> No.7393958

>>7393890
It's probably just one guy making the same threads every time

>> No.7393962

>>7393947
What kind of engineer are you, anon? What level of study?

>> No.7393971

>>7393947
what is this image supposed to mean?

>> No.7393981
File: 65 KB, 1598x448, Nuceng.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7393981

>>7393971
It's a sampling of specialised questions designed to show that engineering requires math. That said one of them isn't a question, another looks like a simple PDE, and a third is just an integral, in that sense it's the same as pic related.

>> No.7393994

>>7393981
So, basically insecure engineer being insecure?

>> No.7394002

>>7393994
Pretty much.

>> No.7394013

>>7393994
you were rejected from engineering programs :^)

>> No.7394018

>>7393943

Thing is, with something like ChemEng you can go and do research that is basically certain fields of physics and/or materials science. Failing that, you can still go and do engineering, and that tube shit is still leaps and bounds better than being stuck in a bank.

Although of course this does not work so well if you want to research particle physics or something.

>>7393836

Thinking that people only do Engineering for the money is just ignorant. Of course it usually doesn't deter people either.

>> No.7394025
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[ERROR]

Can't we all just get along?

>> No.7394031

>>7394018
>Although of course this does not work so well if you want to research particle physics or something.
Sucks for me then :(

As for eng being better than being stuck at a bank, idk, both are basically equally corporate whores I think.

>> No.7394039

>>7393782
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/math/mobile/mathematicians.htm

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/mobile/physicists-and-astronomers.html

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/mobile/chemists-and-materials-scientists.htm

>> No.7394066

>>7394031
>As for eng being better than being stuck at a bank, idk, both are basically equally corporate whores I think.

Shows what you know. Being paid and not having to beg for a job is now being a corporate whore? You must really hate doctors.

>> No.7394078

>>7394066
>You must really hate doctors.
Not if they're self-employed, work for a small business and so on.

>> No.7394664

>>7393782
Why do people always post this guy? He went to a no-name university and I can't find any publications from him on the internet. If you don't go to Harvard, MIT, Cambridge, etc. for your PhD, you aren't getting a job in academia nowadays. He should've prepared a better exit plan.

>> No.7394683

>>7394664
During my undergrad, we had a small lunch time seminar about what to do if you wanted to go to grad school and have a hope for getting a job. The only clear cut rule was don't apply to anything ranked below the top 20 institutions in the field as it will just be a waste of time since it won't get you a job anywhere.

>> No.7394686

>>7393782
Medicine is stem.

>> No.7394688

>>7394683
Why not just go into CS or engineering if you're not smart enough to be a big time theoretical physicist?

>> No.7394691

>>7394683
You'll do fine getting a job outside academia if you have some kind of plan for developing job skills during your PhD. You just won't get the good postdoc positions that you need to get a tenure track position later.

>> No.7394717

I did pure Chemistry BSc, and an Environmental MSc.

Got a job as a R&D analyst in a major food manufacturer, then validation specialist for a major pharma company, and now I work as a consultant for pharma/biopharma.

I'm 28 and on £58k / $90k.

>> No.7394721

>>7394717
Prestigious uni?

>> No.7394728

>>7394721

Loughborough - definitely not prestigious. Was ranked higher when I was there (2005) but it's not exactly raved about for Chem.

>> No.7394729

>>7394717
Chem fag who (kinda) got told by engies in the thread, thanks for the hope.

>> No.7394752

>>7394717
I'm a p.sci, just got hired as a lab tech/researcher for a food ingredient company.

26 years old, 30k a year

:(

>> No.7394763

>>7393890
It is likely one bitter guy desperately telling himself that his life choices are good and that anyone not on his particular route is a failure. Especially if they made a conscious choice to take another one.

>> No.7394766

>>7394013
Yes yes, your path is the right one and anyone not on your path must have been rejected because all your choices desperately need to be perfect because otherwise.. oh my god that would mean that you weren't perfect and we sure can't have that, can we?

>> No.7394770

>>7394752

Stick at it, I learnt more in my food R&D job as there's more freedom and less ridiculous method regulation from the mhra/fda.

>> No.7394771
File: 40 KB, 801x759, Aerospace Stress Engineer Salary.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>7394717
>>7394752
BS in Mechanical Engineering reporting in. 22 years old, just got hired for 60k plus benefits and yearly bonus, plus tuition reimbursement for my Master's

>> No.7394774
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[ERROR]

>>7393794
>Ph.D in Mathematics
>Any job I want
>300k starting

>> No.7394782

>>7394752
What is a p.sci?

>> No.7394785

>>7394774
>Man with money a.jpg
Do you have more than one picture of a guy with money? If so, post.

>> No.7394792

>>7394785
not sure if srs

>> No.7394793

>>7394785
How can you be so new

>> No.7394797

>>7394792
super srs

>>7394793
pls no bully

>> No.7394798

>>7394792
>>7394793
He obviously just wants more bait images, guys.

>> No.7394803

>>7394797
nobully but how can you be so ignorant of one of the cornerstones of /sci/ culture?

>> No.7394809

>>7394728
Did you get the job before the finnancial crisis? Either way, good on you lad.

>> No.7394810

>>7394803
I know about the $300k starting meme, but I don't know why you would save more than one picture of a guy with money

What kind of person would do that?

>> No.7394814
File: 49 KB, 506x337, countingmoney.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

Someone say $300k starting?

Also
>type counting money into google
>literally second picture

>> No.7394815

>>7394810
>not saving several copies of all your favorite reaction images with 1 pixel altered for when someone else uses it

>> No.7394820
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[ERROR]

>>7394815
That's actually really smart

>> No.7394824

>>7394820
/sci/ is the high IQ board friend
We just pretend to be retarded because it's funny

>> No.7394833

>>7394798
Figured, lol

>> No.7394835

>>7394814
Every fucking time anon lol

>> No.7394839

>>7394824
>TFW actually an idiot and nobody knows

>> No.7394841

>>7394839
Now you're catching on

>> No.7394902

>>7393890

It's just the mechanical engineers that have the inflated egos. They feel the need to compensate for their extremely dry classes while all the other engineers/scientists study interesting topics.

Oh man guys time to take heat transfer 3! I l-l-ove mechanical egineering ;_;

>> No.7394926

>>7394902
ME here, can confirm that no one likes thermo stuff

I feel especially bad for petroleum engineers, though
>Do all kinds of thermo stuff
>Finally graduate
>Barrel of oil costs 20 bucks and a cup of coffee
>Fracking isn't making any money
>Either move to Saudi Arabia or be unemployed

>> No.7394938

>>7394926
Sounds rough man, hope you're doing well. Do you plan to go into research or industry? I think Mechs are pretty cool, shame about all those tensors though, maybe I'll be able to understand some of mech when I know enough Math.

>> No.7394969

fuck off OP, jobs that use those who went to school for marine biology are doing nothing but growing because of
1. how little we know about the ocean and the many species within
2. all of the different things we get from the ocean and are only just now starting to get from the ocean such as cosmetics and pharmaceuticals and hopefully in the future, alternative fuels.

if you really think engineering is the only thing that you can get a job with in STEM you are flat out wrong, and will remain wrong until things magically change to make you right which just does not look like it'll be happening any time in the near future.

>> No.7394989

>>7394938
The nice thing about ME is that, if you don't like one subject, the field is wide enough that you never have to deal with it if you don't want to

I'm going into industry, but hopefully I'll work my way up to research while in industry

>> No.7395134
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[ERROR]

>>7393782
The same article again. Damn Engineers really are creative.

>tfw only the weak would choose money and a dull life over a creative, meaningful and hard life.

If you are an Engineer that comes here to shit on other peoples choices, you wont do too well.

>> No.7395147

>>7393782
I was going to make a new thread

Any of you folks have advice for a /sci/ man who can't find a job after graduation? I can't do retail because it was an endless hell like Dantes inferno

>> No.7395177

>>7395147
What did you major in?
>inb4 engineering physics

>> No.7395193

>>7395147
I know that feel, biomajor here. I'm going to try and get a masters in bioinformatics, if things don't workout.

>> No.7395196

what's /sci/'s take on Biomedical Engineering?

>> No.7395198

>>7395177
Biochem and stats

I can't even get a job in non Sci fields.

>> No.7395203

>>7395196

there's no point in the specialization, it only decreases job prospects

>> No.7395205

>>7395196
As a field, it's booming

As a grad major, great

As an undergrad major, what's the point? Just do mechanical engineering or at least something better established and relevant.

>> No.7395208

>>7395203
>>7395205
thx. only looking for grad studies tbh. finishing up a EE here, got JHU in mind

>> No.7395211

>>7393782
>Reading University

There's the problem.

>> No.7395245

>>7393782
>no pure science
No, math and physics don't have prospects because no one outside of academia cares. I could also see someone argue some chem degrees for this reason as well, but biochem and most bio are pretty set because they have the advantage of being able to explain what you're doing and why its important as opposed to the mental masturbation that is theoretical physics and pure math

>> No.7395564
File: 142 KB, 600x600, 1435294147293.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

ITT:
>lets evaluate the worth and prospects of an entire field based on the bottom of the barrel

>> No.7395566

>>7393807
How is it even possible to have a PhD in physics, let alone any field, and be unemployed?

>> No.7395570

>>7394039
More bureau of labor statistics statistics!

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mobile/home.htm

>> No.7395572

>>7395566
>Phd from ajoke.university, did no research
basically Phd without anything normally associated with a Phd

>> No.7395586

>>7393782
Geologists make good money

>> No.7395595

>>7395572
Yeah but still, he could've went and copped a wage slave job or even a $13/hr job at the very least.

He didn't try hard enough or he had this planned for a long time

>> No.7395733

>>7394782
pscichology ofc

>> No.7395739

>>7395595
He got a job, it just wasn't the one he wanted.

>> No.7395976
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[ERROR]

>enter field for money and not love for subject
>as a result, dwarfed by those with passion
>as a result, fell behind in his studies/research
>as a result, only got a piece of paper

for pursuit of money and not passion, he got neither

>> No.7396060

>>7394664

What's more important than being at a Top-10 or whatever school is coming from one of the handful of labs at those places that has a record of producing tenure-track faculty. IMO, it's really the prominence of your post-doc lab and fame of your PI in your particular field. And, of course, the majority of prominent labs and famous PIs are at Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, etc.

>> No.7396120

>>7395976
>tfw passionate about engineering and want the money
lmao enjoy no job with your physics degree since you can't become a PEng

>> No.7396125

>>7396120
Being passionate about something and still greedy enough to monetize it is truly master race.

>> No.7396141

>>7396060
would UofT, McGill, or UBC grad schools allow me to get a tenured professorship?

>> No.7396142

>>7396125
Bill Gates master race

>> No.7396153

>>7393807
He had publications, you need to be published at least once for your committee to sign off on your thesis.

There are people with see >>7393810 a man who published 35 papers still can't even get an assistantship at a crappy uni.

>> No.7396154

I suspect the need for engineers will drop as it is currently being hyped and everyone is graduating in it. Civil probably has the best job prospects.

The need for engineers as a percentage of the population decreases as the population rises, also immigrants

>> No.7396232

>>7395211
Nothing wrong with Reading uni

>> No.7396255

>>7396154
Civil? why?

>> No.7396362

>>7393855
I, as a senior in chem E, can atest to the fact that they are not the same. However, if you're going to graduate school you end up doing the same things or nearly the same. It depends on what path you want I suppose.

>> No.7396373

>>7395134
Why not get both? Grad school prospects are good on engineering and the research is essentially the same as any hard science equivalent

>> No.7396380

>>7396255

Because the need for civil engies increases linearly with population growth and a whole bunch of the world still has none.

Electrical products and machines are mass produced, bridges are not.

>> No.7396381

>>7396373

It's not math, not even close.

>> No.7396420

>>7396380
Very good point.
Since I leave in Europe and here population is ageing pretty badly, going to civileng is really frowned upon.

>> No.7396439

I guess everyone is just a stupid asshole who doesn't pursue engineering. Why have anything else at all? Forget about art, science, literature, teachings, doctors, and whatever.... everyone should just be an engineer. And if you can't do it, well, you're a stupid asshole and should just kill yourself

>> No.7396493

>>7394815
>implying you even need to change a single pixel

>> No.7396498

>>7393782
is cs stem

>> No.7396501

>>7396439
Chill mate

>> No.7396518

>>7396439
You make a pretty good argument tbh. Everyone should be engineers.

>> No.7396748

>>7396518
Inorite?

>> No.7396754

>>7396501
It seems like thats what they are getting at to me

>> No.7396804

>>7393786
Chemistry and Physics both offer a fair amount of jobs. Relative to engineering, maybe not so much, but there are even fields of engineering that are faltering with potential.

I think anyone concerned with earning a pure science degree is there because they love it enough to try to make it work with the current job market.

Good job on being a twat.

>> No.7397180
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[ERROR]

An associates degree in automotive technology is STEM, r-right guys?

Community college is acceptable, right? RIGHT?

>> No.7397242
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[ERROR]

>>7397180

Community colleges are the most important post-secondary education network in many countries, including the USA.

Society needs (and will always need) electricians, plumbers, mechanics, welders, and other trades for which community college is the critical bridge between highschool and employment. You can make a good living in these fields, with benefits and retirement packages equal to or better than most white-collar jobs.

In fact, the world would fall apart infinitely faster without those people than it would without faggots who study the compactness of topological manifolds or instabilities in the atmospheres of K-type stars.

>> No.7397250

>>7397242
You've made me feel a lot better about myself. Thanks anon.

I just really like cars. The way they work just fascinates me. I was originally going to be a mechanical engineer, but I hate sitting behind a desk. I'd rather solve problems and work with my hands.

>> No.7397252

>>7397180
It's definitely not stem, but you'll be employed way before any of the rest of us.

>> No.7397267

>>7396141

Again, it's the fame of the PI. If your PI has connections and a history of placing people in tenure-track jobs, you're set.

There are prestigious labs at schools such as UC Irvine or Brandeis that have produced some tenure-track faculty. These are solid schools, and though they may not be of the same stature as, say, MIT or Berkeley, they have PIs that are the leaders in their respective fields.

>> No.7397271

>>7397252
anon do you even know what the T in STEM stands for?

of course fucking auto technology is STEM, it doesnt have to be a PHD to be STEM.

>> No.7397306

>>7393836
>>7393855

ChemE student here.
At my school, ChemE's take 6 chemistry courses - granted 2 of them are gen eds. The chemistry students take 9 total and have to take a harder OChem lab.

It'd be stupid for me to say that ChemE's are close to chemistry majors, but we end up doing a lot more harder classes and the only chemistry classes we don't take are inorganic chemistries and maybe some quantum shit.

>> No.7397317

>>7397250

I have found that many good mechanics and machinists have a better (if more intuitive) grasp of mechanical engineering concepts than most degreed mechanical engineers.

I am an engineer from a top US school with a successful career. If I could do it all over again I would be a machinist or a mechanic, as long as it was in a position that left room for creativity and problem solving.

>> No.7397326

>>7397317
Machinists are definitely underrated as far as their knowledge of concepts goes, and a master technician will know as much about engines as an engineer will.

Most shops have welding equipment and you have free range to construct parts, brackets, etc. to your liking most of the time.

I'm just a mechanic at a Mercedes dealership. Pay is great, but it's mostly just wrench turning. I love solving problems, though. It's great.

>> No.7398262
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[ERROR]

>>7393782
>PhD in physics