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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7352201 No.7352201[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

What does consciousness really made of? Is it just made up of something like carbon and hydrogen in the brain? If it is then is it possible to transfer consciousness after death so that we can be immortal? What happen to our consciousness after death?

>> No.7352207

>>7352201
>What does consciousness really made of?
Ghosts
>Is it just made up of something like carbon and hydrogen in the brain?
No
>If it is then is it possible to transfer consciousness after death so that we can be immortal?
It isn't, but we can, because it's ghosts
>What happen to our consciousness after death?
It haunts shit

>> No.7352210

>>7352201
It's an emergent phenomenon cased by having a brain.

Here, Max Tegmark will explain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCvlFRISIM

>> No.7352230

>>7352210
>"emergent phenomenon"
translation
>"we don't know"

>> No.7352232

>>7352201
We don't know, both mechanically and philosophically.

>> No.7352235

>>7352230
Emergence have a very distinct meaning in modern philosophical thinking. It's not some kind of esoteric bullshit like what you seem to imagine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Emergence

>> No.7352240

Consciousness is the feeling of short term memories being created. If you closely examine what it is like to exist from moment to moment you will find that what you are actually experiencing is a memory of what is happening right now.

>> No.7352244

>>7352235
>modern philosophical thinking
stopped reading right there, bud

>> No.7352245

>>7352240
Don't tell me you actually believe that.

>> No.7352246

>>7352245
Well considering that you provided such an eloquent counter argument I guess I have no choice but to reject that hypothesis.

>> No.7352251

we don't know

>> No.7352257

>>7352244
Feel free to stay ignorant anon, the world is full to the brim of people who're uneducated and proud, one more makes no meaningful difference.

>> No.7352258

>>7352257
do you even listen to yourself?
I'm sure even you get tired of spewing out your own bullshit

>> No.7352262

>>7352246
I hate this board, and I've only been here for two hours. There's some decent conversation and personality types clustering here though, so I'm ambivalent.

Let me put it simply and concisely, you will have to research further on your own.
-The brain is a machine
-Short term memory is but a small part of its capacity to encode and store a certain type of information.
-Consciousness is not understood, but white matter tracts and their arrangement provide some very basic indications
-What you're calling short term memory is actually the function of multiple structures and various synchronous, and asynchronous regulation thereof.

For example. The map your brain generates from visual input tracking saliency, objects, expectations, associative ideas and locations in memory to assess how things will behave, etc. This isn't stored in short term or working memory, nor is it known if experience is actually a centralized phenomena. List goes on, there's too much to be said. A good deal of information the brain receives through its many inputs is likely never even stored.

Your statement makes your conscious mind but a mere gate that reads the flow of information. While this is certainly poetic, trippy, and even correct in a very abstract sense, it's a very poor description even based on our already limited understanding.

>> No.7352274

Think of it like words written in ink. You might want to say the words are made of ink, but you can just as easily write them in pencil or chalk. The words themselves need matter to exist, but aren't actually physical things. Same goes for consciousness. It requires stuff, but it's not made out of anything.

>> No.7352276

>>7352262
>The map your brain generates from visual input tracking saliency, objects, expectations, associative ideas and locations in memory to assess how things will behave, etc.
But you aren't conscious of that process. Everything you described (and almost everything else) happens subconsciously. As a matter of conscious experience, *you* are utterly oblivious to the overwhelming majority of things your brain is doing. For example, what is your next thought going to be? Describe the process by which you author the next thought you are going to think. You can't do it, because thoughts just pop into your head already formed, and formed by some process which you aren't aware of, and certainly not in control of.

Your consciousness is merely the memory of thinking-- and experiencing other inputs, nothing else.

>> No.7352282

Theres a theory that conciousness is actually a state of matter
>just a theory

>> No.7352290

8/10 got me mad

>> No.7352291

>>7352258
>I'm sure even you get tired of spewing out your own bullshit

Well of course, I feel compelled beyond my control to communicate with dignified fuckwits all the time.
This is a very tiresome and unrewarding conduct to engage in, therefore I deemed it fit to blow you off with such a sweeping statement.
Clearly you're not interested in exploring the topic of the thread but rather is just out to internet-off with some poor anon.

>> No.7352296

>>7352282
That dosent mean it's made out of anything. Drilling is a state of a drill, but you can drill the same hole with any number of drills. Consciousness itself is made of nothing but ideas.

>> No.7352297

>>7352291
I've been contributing to this thread since its inception
>apparently you dont get tired of spewing your own bullshit

>> No.7352298

>>7352262
>I hate this board, and I've only been here for two hours.

It's summer, usually this place isn't bad but today it's fucking terrible.

>> No.7352299

>someone used the word philosophy
>giant back and forth of insults ensues

>> No.7352300

>>7352298
>le summer meme
You must be a summerfag then, considering that you're responsible for 10% of the shitposting in this thread.

>> No.7352302

>>7352298
>implying this is as bad as supernatural threads or 0/0 and .999 threads

>> No.7352303

>>7352302
> implying this isn't a supernatural thread

>> No.7352306

>>7352297
You're contributing to the discussion in this thread in much the same way cancer is contributing to the operation of the human body anon.

>> No.7352307

>>7352201
>What does consciousness really made of?
we don't know
>is it just made up of something like carbon and hydrogen in the brain?
definitely not
>immortal?
we don't know
>what happen to our consciousness after death
well, only one way to find out really

>> No.7352312

>>7352302

Which is worse, a /x/ fag or a reddit shitlord? Mate just look at these
>>7351938
>>7349553
>>7350662
>>7349979
>>7351315
>>7351402

>> No.7352319

>>7352312
>implying OP is as bad as those

>> No.7352322

>>7352312
those are pretty fucking awful
how about we stop bumping the bullshit?
now thats an idea

>> No.7352323

>>7352319

This started from this >>7352298

You cannot deny that today this place is terrible. Didn't say OP was THAT dumb but this is pretty much /x/ tier.

>> No.7352325

>>7352322

The dubs have spoken.

>> No.7352331
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7352331

>>7352322

>> No.7352332

>>7352323
Point taken
>>7352322
Praise the dubs

>> No.7352336

>>7352331
>inn4 new reddit post
>hi sci do you believe in dubs God XD

>> No.7352337
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7352337

omg everybody knows consciousness can be transferred and downloaded. didn't you watch Chappie lol

>> No.7352408

>>7352276
I strongly disagree, because if what you claim is true, we would have no original thought and thus this conversation or anything we created wouldn't be possible. Isn't "the memory of thinking" implying a repetitive pattern of thought?

>> No.7352430

A better question is what can we theoretically do to figure out the answer to OPs question. Anyone have any ideas?

>> No.7352459

What if consciousness is just a parliament of cells, sending signals (based on sensory input and memories) to the cerebral cortex and then forming a thought? Seems improbable, but OPs question is as rhetorical as it can get.
"Downloading" your brain will be possible, fo' sho', but wouldn't that just make it a clone; and depending on the new brain, might not be called consciousness really if it's just going to be restricted to the downloaded content..

>> No.7352469

>>7352459
How can hardware matter if all your atoms get replaced over time?

>> No.7352482

>>7352469
>>7352469
I don't understand what you mean by that. Everything has its limitations, and time decays everything and even if atoms get replaced, aren't they just a copy of themselves? That depends on the environment though.

>> No.7352489

>>7352482
Well if you change all of the materials in something without changing what it "is," then it wasn't really made out of those materials.

>> No.7353064

>>7352408
But if you disagree then I urge you to answer the question I posed: what is your next thought going to be?

If you are like me, and dare I say everyone else, then you won't be able to answer it because you are unaware of the process by which thoughts are authored. For some reason we usually identify with our thoughts and behavior, I guess it makes life easier to feel that way. But if you examine your moment to moment experience very closely you will find that thoughts merely appear in consciousness already formed, just like all other phenomena does (sounds, sensations et cetera). As a matter of subjective experience all *you* are doing is simply remembering what is happening; the parts of your mind that actually make it happen aren't only disconnected from your influence, but from your view altogether.

>> No.7353141

>>7352201

>What are programs really made of? Is it just made up of something like silicon and electrons in the cpu? If it is then is it possible to transfer programs after deletion so that we can play videogames forever? What happens to programs after deletion?


Conciousness is an emergent quality of the complex interrelations between neurons in our brains. It cannot exist without the information and circuitry within the brain that it arises from. It may be possible to someday be able to copy one's consciousness into an advanced enough computer, or a genetically engineered immortal brain. However, to transfer one's consciousness from one brain to another is probably not possible, unless it was a slow shift rather than an all at once jump.

For example, if they hooked you up to a machine that slowly replaced the functionality of your brain with that of the machine, seamlessly replicating each neuron as it was replaced, your consciousness would probably be transferred over and you would be aware the whole time. However, if the machine simply uploaded your brain's information into itself and shut down your brain, the you that you are would just die, while the second you that now existed in the machine would continue to exist, and would feel as if it made the jump. Except it never made any jump, and you never made any jump, there was simply a copying process.

What happens to your consciousness is the same thing that happens to a program on a computer when you destroy the computer. It stops existing. It doesn't 'go' anywhere, just like a statue doesn't 'go' anywhere if you crush it into gravel stones. The order and information that once existed no longer exist, simple as that.

>> No.7353359

>>7353064
Okay, what you say does make sense, and it's improbable to be able predict the next thought; but the subconscious can be affected through will, not directly, but through meditation and such. And if such change is possible, it's not disconnected from personal influence as you claim.
What I'm trying to say is that, we can dictate what Kind of thoughts pop up (positive, negative, ...), we are able to change our mindset. Furthermore, thoughts flow out because we let them. And the question you posed doesn't really serve any purpose

>> No.7353403

>>7352201
working memory, as for what it is "made of", it is just neural connections and brain matter

>> No.7353413

Consciousness exchange particals, called cognitons.

>> No.7353414

>>7352201
Please may you not

>> No.7353571
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7353571

>>7352201
>What does consciousness really made of?
Experience is that of which consciousness is comprised.

>> No.7353655

>>7352262
>I hate this board, and I've only been here for two hours.
Pretty much how I felt the first time I came here.

Awesome post btw, saved me a fuckton of effort.

>>7352276
>As a matter of conscious experience, *you* are utterly oblivious to the overwhelming majority of things your brain is doing.
And a computer program doesn't generally represent transistors or the laws of boolean logic. Doesn't change the fact that it's built on them.

>> No.7353691

>>7352210
Holy shit, thank you for this link. I've had this idea in my head for fucking years now and I could never find any writing on it, but now it seems Max Tegmark has it figured out as well.

This idea goes beyond consciousness to. The idea that he talks about around the 15 min mark, that there is nothing in particular that "breathes life" into a mathematical structure is actually the ultimate answer to the question of why the universe exists. Every mathematically consistent formal system exists in the same way as our universe does, and every entity capable of being conscious within one of these universes IS conscious.

>> No.7353698

>>7353571
Consciousness is comprised of past experiences.

Hey look I said it better

>> No.7353703

>>7353698
D-
For trying.

>> No.7353727

>>7353703
Because it wasn't wordy?

>> No.7353743

>>7353727
I didn't like that you said past.

>> No.7354154

hold on guys ill find out brb getting phd in functional neuroimaging

>> No.7354942

>>7353743
You can't have present experiences

>> No.7354954

>>7354942
not him but
you kind of can, via prediction

>> No.7354967

>>7352262
He said consciousness, not the entire brain. You tired hard to sound smart... but you just spouted a lot of pseudoscience bud

>> No.7354979

I heard an interesting theory that consciousness arises as mental filter for social interaction. Social interaction is very complex, because not only must you model the environment around you, but you must make predictions and infer information from other actors around you. You need to predict what they will do next, but you also need to predict how they will interpret your next actions, and how that will affect their action choices.

The idea is that "consciousness" is some very high level hyper-visor which is constantly listening in on the data stream from lower brain regions in order to determine what is relevant to social interaction. According to the theory this is why we have a voice in our head. I wouldn't say consciousness is tied to language, but it uses language because language is a very effective tool for filtering information and selecting appropriate social behavior.

Another interesting theory I've heard is that consciousness is the simulator part of your mind. You can replay past events, and simulate future events to learn better. Instead of relying on one shot learning, your brain can mentally retain enough data to simulate events for better training.

>> No.7355459

>>7352210
Why would one expect immaterial (the soul) to have an observable effect on material (atoms of the brain)?

>> No.7355488

>>7354967

Fuck you, hows about that you stupid moron. I dare you to reply

>> No.7355490

>>7352207
Lol

>> No.7355544

>>7352201
"Consciousness" is just a fancy shmacy way of saying aware for people who are to scared of admitting that we have no special place in the universe. We are extraordinarily retentive and aware creatures and the most complex we've seen thus far, but we are a step away from elephants, apes, dolphins and a few corvids.

>> No.7355568

>>7355544
So your definition is that something has "consciousness" if it has great enough capacities for retention and awareness of self and surroundings?

>> No.7355635

>>7355459
>Why would one expect immaterial (the soul) to have an observable effect on material (atoms of the brain)?

Because if the brain is fully operational and can account for everything we do without a soul doing anything observable at all.
That is strong evidence that will convince anyone who understood the argument that the soul isn't a real thing and just fantasy.

Like say we gave a machine, a car, to some wild natives that never had encountered civilisation and told them that it was pulled forward by
'the great machine-spirit' who fed on the demon-juice you poured in the tank. The great machine-spirit would seem very very real to them.
But if one of them educated themselves and disected the machine and figured out that it's internal workings could be explained without
invoking the great machine spirit it stands to reason that this person would throw the concept onto the trashheap of history right then and there.

>> No.7356161

>What does consciousness really made of?
Chemical reactions in the brain

Humans are chemical computers

>> No.7356164

>>7352262

>I hate this board

Which is a shame because it's one of the better 4chan boards, despite what other anons try to tell you.