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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7338172 No.7338172 [Reply] [Original]

Did we discover math or did we invent it?

Does math even exist?

>> No.7338173

It exist just as a language like English exists. It's a language.

>> No.7338178

>>7338173

I've came across this theory in my own thought when I was about 14 and have come to realize that's why math is so hard. People try and teach it within the grammatical framework of their mother tongue and it doesn't always work.

>> No.7338245

we invented the framework and then discover consequences of implementations of that framework

>> No.7338366

Invented. There have been other forms of math such as Babylonian which had base 60 instead of 10. Maybe similar rules could be applied to it, idk.

>> No.7338379

>>7338245
only objectively correct answer.

You arbitrarily decide on or "invent" the axioms then you derive or "discover" the results and theorems.

>> No.7338435

The relationships exist, we discover those relationships and invent the abstraction that represents them.

>> No.7338448

We invent the axioms we want, we discover what those axioms mean.

>> No.7338454

>>7338172
Math is a sophisticated way of counting man made distinctions. One then adds and subtracts these counted objects until you have the object you want.

>> No.7338483

>>7338172
>Does math even exist?
you have 10 fingers
you have 10 toes
you have two arms
you have two legs
math exists

>> No.7338561

it is a human-made system used to quantify and measure observable, objective phenomena

>> No.7338624

>>7338172
We invented it, but based on assumptions that seemed reasonable from our experience of the world. Which is probably why it works so well.

>> No.7338639

>>7338483
Most pedagogic post today.

>> No.7339136

>>7338172
Math is a human invention to help us describe our reality. At its' core it consists of:

1) Definitions: e.g. 1 + 0 = 1 (defining an additive identity = 0)

2) axioms: things we assert are true even though we can't prove it ( e.g. I can add an infinite number of integers together; even though doing so on paper should take an infinite amount of time, I can still do this pedagogically)

3) theorems; thing that follow from our definitions plus axioms, as well as some conditions that must exists ( e.g. definition: 1+1 =2 ;definition 1+1+1 =3; result 1+2 =3)

>> No.7339185

>>7339136
Man none of those things are what you say they are, and your ordering is completely backwards

1. Axiom: an assumption which cannot be independantly proven to be true, and from which further statements can be shown
>If a implies b and b implies c than a implies c
>the sets x and y are equal if for all z in x there exists a w in y such that w = z and vice verse

2. Theorem: a statement which can be proven from axioms
>if x + y = x and a + b = a than y = b
>all sets have a length

3. Definition: a statement which assigns a symbol to a proven theorem.
>For all x, 0 is defined to be the number such that x + 0 = x
>the set of all sets A for which there exists an x such that for all y, y does not equal x, and x is a member of A but y is not a member of A is defined to be 1.

>> No.7339262

I'd suggest you read Lee Smolin's "A naturalist account of the limited, and hence reasonable, effectiveness of mathematics in physics."

>> No.7339270

But would aliens know math? If we showed them algebra or calculus would they understand? What about basic arithmetic?

>> No.7339308

>>7338172
The underlying principals of math exist; and were discovered in my opinion... however our way of expressing math was made up.

This question is very philisophical in nature

>> No.7339323

>>7339270
They would have a different abstraction that represents the same relationships. You could make, for example, a base 26 system that uses the Latin alphabet to represent "numbers," or a base 4 system that uses a picture of a chicken, a circle, a banana, and a penis, and it would still represent the things that we represent.

>> No.7339367
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7339367

>>7338172

>> No.7339369

Smart people invented math, you discover it as you gradually come to comprehend what they invented.

>> No.7339373

>>7338245
/thread

>> No.7339969

>>7338172
And it's stupid threads like this that keep me from coming here more often.

>> No.7339975

>>7338366
In no way is that a "different form" of mathematics. That's just a different base number system, you fuck.