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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7300804 No.7300804 [Reply] [Original]

how come i can listen to music in my mind but not close my eyes and see videos

>> No.7300815

>>7300804
>he can't see video in his mind.
Please change your name, you clearly lack the vision of the great man whose name you use.

>> No.7300817

>>7300804
Visualization is a thing anon. It just works a bit differently.

>> No.7300828

>>7300804
>but not close my eyes and see videos

Because you have severe brain damage, I guess?

>> No.7300836

>>7300804
Because the mind can imagine sound way easier.
If you can't imagine moving pictures with closed eyes, train your mind, start with a picture from a video and slowly start to imagine the next frame and so on.

>> No.7300838

>>7300828
I remember reading of a person with brain stem damage that prevented them from achieving rem sleep. Ways in which that person was not messed up eliminated some of the possibilities about the purpose of dreaming.

>> No.7301040

Unless it's while sleeping, I can't really visualize images in my mind at all.
Like, when I think of shapes, I literally hear a description of the shapes in my mind.
>spent so long assuming this was normal

>> No.7301048

>>7301040

That's fuckin' weird, dude.

>> No.7301054

>>7300804
>>7301040
On getting images:

http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm

http://www.winwenger.com/isbackup.htm

>> No.7301059

>>7300804
>how come i can listen to music in my mind but not close my eyes and see videos

>>7301040
>Like, when I think of shapes, I literally hear a description of the shapes in my mind.

You guys lack visual imagination. It's completely a thing - there's lots of qualia that some people have and others don't.

Here, have this:

>http://lesswrong.com/lw/dr/generalizing_from_one_example/

>Upon hearing this, my response was "How the stars was this actually a real debate? Of course we have mental imagery. Anyone who doesn't think we have mental imagery is either such a fanatical Behaviorist that she doubts the evidence of her own senses, or simply insane." Unfortunately, the professor was able to parade a long list of famous people who denied mental imagery, including some leading scientists of the era. And this was all before Behaviorism even existed.

>> No.7301077

>>7301059
>You guys lack visual imagination. It's completely a thing - there's lots of qualia that some people have and others don't.

I just don't understand how that's possible. How do those people manage everyday tasks? How are they not constantly getting lost without some kind of mental map of their surroundings? How does their memory even work? Like, could they not draw a picture of their own house unless they were looking at it?

>> No.7301088

>>7301077

>Like, could they not draw a picture of their own house unless they were looking at it?

I have a visual imagination, but not a very good one, so I approximately couldn't. I'm inside right now - when imagining the front of my house, I have to deliberately think about what rooms are in the house and which ones have windows in order to come up with how the house looks. I can DESCRIBE it very easily, but that's all words, you know? But if I put pen to paper, I would have to think of those words and then draw something that would be described with those words.

>> No.7301095

This is, incidentally, one of the reasons all the "Muh Qualia" debates are so silly - I definitely have qualia but how could I ever convince Anon who's making fun of consciousness/qualia when I know that he quite possibly doesn't?

>> No.7302833

>>7301077
I'm not OP. I can visualize things, just really really poorly. It needs to be something I'm extremely familiar with and have seen repeatedly for extended periods.

I never use a mental map.
I keep track of cardinal directions constantly and update as I turn/rotate.

e.g.
>now I'm traveling south, I need to go west, so I turn right
>my girlfriend lives northwest of me, so I'll travel north along the highway then turn left
>etc.

>> No.7302875

>>7300838
Please elaborate.

>> No.7302913

>>7300804
Really? Because I call it "dreaming". I hear it's all the rage in Paris.

>> No.7302948

I have to try really hard to see images in my head, and when I do they only appear for a brief second. Hell, I'm not even convinced I saw anything at all, rather I just imagined I did. Really the only images I can do this with are one's I've seen before, so I may just be remembering the idea of an image.

>> No.7302958

>>7302833
That must suck. I can visualize most of my city. Not perfect detail everywhere but you get the gist.

>> No.7302962

>>7300804
Take some dmt

>> No.7302980

>>7301040
Well that's faulty wiring and quite weird. Do you have other forms of synesthesia?

>> No.7302995

I personally can visualize a lot of things, but I don't "see" things, except for in my dreams, maybe.

This is an interesting subject, I've never asked someone how their minds work in this regard.

If I remember a place in my head, how I would describe it is I feel the touch of something, how it sounds, smells, and I get a map of it all. I imagine myself in that place, moving around.

Maybe this doesn't tell you much, but I'm interested in how others would describe their thoughts.

>> No.7303016

My brain sort of stores things I see as a JPEG. I get an actual visual image in my head, but it loses much of its fidelity.

It seems like most people work sort of Heuristically. We use what sensations we can really remember, and just fill in the rest with bullshit that we think approximates the experience.

But then you've got savants who remember literally everything, which as far as I've heard, is a serious detriment to your sanity as you get older.

>> No.7303017

>>7302875
Can't find the case study. The guy had shrapnel hit his brain stem so he ostensibly had brain problems besides being unable to dream, That case could only be considered a crude gauge of the necessity of dreaming as a result. The wiki article on REM sleep has lots of details and links, including this bit:

>In humans, the best evidence for REMS improvement of memory pertains to learning of procedures—new ways of moving the body (such as trampoline jumping), and new techniques of problem solving. REM deprivation seemed to impair declarative (i.e., factual) memory only in more complex cases, such as memories of longer stories.[75] REM sleep apparently counteracts attempts to suppress certain thoughts.[51]

Extreme experiments on animals have been carried out with experimental procedures like shaking the animal's cage whenever rapid eye movement is detected by a device attached to it. It's hard to make inferences because regularly disturbing the sleep of animal is going to have other effects, like making it completely miserable.

>> No.7303039

>>7300804
Wait you can't? When I get lost sometimes I just play back what I have seen to figure out where I am

>> No.7303103

you have both in- and output for audio
for video you have input only

while you cannot create pixel-perfect images in your mind, you can create perfect representations of what you have seen, thats called imagination. For fucks sake, what do you think about when you jerk off?

>> No.7303124

>>7303103
I wish I had output for audio, but alas I have only output for speech, and even that is limited. I wish I could produce sound like a parrot or a lyrebird.

>> No.7303197

OK /sci/, answer me this.

How come my mental voice is completely different from my actual voice?

Not only that but why is it a voice I never heard before?

>> No.7303203

>>7303124
Speech is a form of audio, dumb fuck. You can also whistle, hum, clap your hands, etc.

>> No.7303223

>>7302948
ime too, it sucks not to be a creator

>> No.7303241

I remember you, OP. You posted on /sci/ about this same thing like 7-8 months ago

>> No.7303292

I can imagine anything I want onto real life and I'll actually see it. Sometimes when I'm bored I imagine giant animals walking in the distance when I'm outside on a walk. It feels like watching a movie. I'm training this by trying to comprehend entire visual stimuli at once, and then adding things to the scene. It's tiring if I do it too long though, and it doesn't work when I'm tired/hungry.

>> No.7303308

I wonder what the nature vs nurture is on this. Like, is it possible OP screwed up his imagination with too much tv and video games and/or too little reading and pretending as a little kid?

>> No.7303311

>>7300804
>how come i can listen to music in my mind but not close my eyes and see videos
I can see videos in my mind just fine. I think you're just retarded.

>> No.7303456
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7303456

>>7301077
>I just don't understand how that's possible. How do those people manage everyday tasks?

They become education majors

>> No.7303539

>>7300804

You can't see videos?

To answer your question, you're obviously either retarded or stunted.

sorry.

>> No.7303553

>>7300804
Because of not enough LSD

>> No.7303575

>>7302948

same.

My thought process/memory recollection is almost 100% verbal. I have extremely poor spatial reasoning. I love math but it makes no intuitive sense to me.

>biologist

>> No.7304448

>>7303203
Wow, no need for namecalling.
Audio output implies that one is capable of outputting audio like a speaker. And since when is smashing two objects together considered audio output, you dumb fuck. Then I guess falling rocks have a built in audio module. Fucking idiot.

>> No.7304506

>>7304448
>no need for namecalling
>you dumb fuck
>Fucking idiot

>> No.7304531

>>7304506
You reap what you sow.

>> No.7305513

>>7300817
Not everyone has it. At least, I don't. There were some old-ass websites/forums on the internet archive about "non-imagers" making all kinds of fuss but that's unnecessary imo.

>> No.7305518

>>7303575
Math isn't intuitive.

>> No.7305520

>>7303241
I think that might've been me (and I'm not OP).

>> No.7305534

>>7300804
I can't into visualizing thing either. This really gets to me because when people explain how they lucid dream, it always starts with them picturing what they want to dream about. Sure I can picture myself doing something, but it's always from the third person which implies its just a memory I'm picturing. Whenever I try to "live out" my dream in the first person, all I see is black. For some reason this doesn't apply to titties. I can always visualize some nice supple titties with perky nipples. Anyone else care to comment?

>> No.7305570

>>7305534
Sometimes when I'm lucid dreaming and I nearly wake up everything gets black lol. But I can still walk around and hear stuff &c.

>> No.7305577

>people can't visualize things
I really had no idea this was a thing. I sort of just assumed that it was a basic thing anyone that wasn't retarded could do. Sure, artists and the like probably are way better at it than most people, but I thought this was just a basic human skill.

So if these people read a book with a lot of vivid, visual descriptions, they just get nothing out of it at all?

>> No.7305592

>>7305577
>So if these people read a book with a lot of vivid, visual descriptions, they just get nothing out of it at all?
You get just that, descriptions. These can evoke feelings just as well.

I was getting some lecture about brain stuff one day and the woman said "now imagine that I'm eating a big red juicy apple" while doing the corresponding movements, her point was that we'd get mouthwatery just from imagining that but I didn't get anything, I was like "wtf are you even trying to say bitch".

>> No.7305595

>>7305534
K, visualizing things doesn't mean you'll be seeing things play out before your eyes as if you're looking at an actual movie... Just like imagining a song doesn't mean its as vivid as hearing it blared into your ears. Obviously you just see black because you're not looking at anything.

>> No.7305609
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7305609

>>7305595
Well this thing was trending on twitter or smth some time ago.

What about daydreaming though? The internet is full of articles saying "everyone daydreams 3 years of their lives/half an our every day/whenever doing boring stuff", I never really assumed "daydreaming" meant anything at all. What's daydreaming like, exactly?

>> No.7305616

>>7305609
>What's daydreaming like, exactly?
You basically get lost in your own thoughts and lose awareness of your surroundings. Ever been on a long, boring bus ride and just thought about random things? It's like that.

>> No.7305618

>https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201301/why-and-how-you-daydream
>http://www.positivelypresent.com/2010/03/daydreaming-dos-and-donts.html
>http://www.wikihow.com/Daydream
Instead of this weird trippy shit I do have imaginary conversations, think of how I would react in certain situations, stuff like that.

>> No.7305621

>>7305616
>Ever been on a long, boring bus ride and just thought about random things? It's like that.
I can see that, but to what degree do you lose awareness of what's going on around you? On long bus rides I just stare out the window, it's not like this image disappears even slightly when I'm thinking of fucking qt3.14s.

>> No.7305629

>>7305621
For me, I'll have almost no idea what's going on. Like sure, I'll be staring out the bus window and I'll be literally looking at the passing, but none of that information is retained in my mind. It'll just be completely lost in my thoughts until something notable happens (like the bus stops).

>> No.7305657

>>7300804
>how come i can listen to music in my mind but not close my eyes and see videos

Because you have bad visualization/no visualization skills.

>> No.7305729
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7305729

What do u see when u close ur eyes?

>> No.7305749

>>7305729
Ur mom naked.
hur hur hur.

>> No.7305775

I thought everyone could store images.

It is how I remember things from so young. There is no sound or voices... but if I sit here and think, the sights play back to me from my point of view.

Like the pot hole in the road or old TMNT playing on the television to the little yellow, red, and blue rocker in my room. I can remember the rug, the walls... everything. I can remember the pound, all that. Only because of the memory visual.

It's funny though. I can barely remember voices or unique sound. It all sounds like my internal monologue voice or a faint whisper.

My dreams are vivid visually but they have little sound. At least, the sound pales in comparison to the visuals.

I never could learn from a lecture but I could always memorize a book.

Some of us have different talents. You have a talent for sound.

>> No.7305789

>>7305534
Well... if that is lucid dreaming then I suppose I never have.

My interpretation of lucid dreaming is simply being consciously aware that you are in a dream. You can act the way you want to within the constricts the dream itself allows. By all means, I am capable of any action I can preform awake. I've never been one to dream of having magical abilities or levitation.

The dream itself is not real. Amazing, wonderful, and awe inspiring, sure. Not real at all though. Sometimes the fact it is not real is depressing.

I never could understand dreaming about something specific, the places I go to in my dreams are more then enough for me as well as the people I meet.

Fantastical places you wouldn't believe with every detail down to the reflections in the glass.

>> No.7305794

>>7305621
For it's like dreaming but not sleeping at the same time. Similar to >>7305629 , there were many times when I missed bus stop because I was completely ignoring reality.

>> No.7305926

>>7305577

You misunderstand - my brain being 100% verbal means my whole life is like this. I don't feel anything in particular when looking at nature in real life; verbal descriptions, like those in books, are more immersive and evocative to me than looking at trees.

>> No.7306167

>>7303103
I think of the things I find attractive conceptually. I don't have images or videos in my mind, but I have the general idea of them. Only a gesalt of the information that seemed pertinent at the point of experience remains.

>> No.7306179

>>7305577
I find it very very difficult to visualise descriptions in books. I usually just replace them with something that seems right; that something will be based in something I've actually seen before. And it's only the general idea of the thing, at most I get a vague blurry image of the character or scene. I can only identify colours that have been explicitly defined.

>> No.7306186

>>7300804
Oh fuck. You just made me realise that I find it really hard to imagine a sound without thinking of how I'd say it; with music my mind sorry of hums the tune instead.

>> No.7306211

>>7300804
>how come i can listen to music in my mind but not close my eyes and see videos
Really? I can.

Huh.

>> No.7306251

>>7300804
1. Videos combine both visuals and audio.

2. You probably listen to a certain song much more than you would watch a certain video. Video demands more attention than audio, so although you can easily listen to music while driving, you have to sit down and focus to watch a video.

3. Music is more repetitive in nature than a video.

4. Music is easily deconstructed into melody, harmony, rhythm, etc., with usually no more than four instruments playing at a time. Videos are more complex. Imagine trying to memorize everything in a five minute scene from a movie compared to a song.

5. Music has no locational context. For a video, you have to mentally put aside the location you are currently in and try to remember all the details of the video's setting. It's like trying to imagine a specific song while something different is blasting on the radio.

5. Videos combine both visuals and audio.