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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7242567 No.7242567 [Reply] [Original]

Why does college do such a good job of repelling people from Science & Math?
How the fuck do we fix it?
Is it just that our generation is retarded & lazy?

>> No.7242578

We don't need anymore people in it, it's saturated enough with few jobs.

In other words, fuckoff-we're full.

>> No.7242579

>>7242567
i don't see people being repelled from science & math. mainly because i'm in science and math.

most of the people whining about lack of inclusion in STEM have nothing to do with stem and know nothing about it

>> No.7242590

>>7242567
>repelling people
It's just that there are people who don't enjoy that stuff. College Science and Math is tough, it really is, some of the people here might think it's not but that's beside the matter. There are many people who can't do that shit, so college is simply doing them a favour, I mean who wants a completely unmotivated stem student working for them?

>> No.7242715

>>7242590
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.7242721

>>7242567
We still havent figured out a good way to teach people things. No matter how you look at it, its not fun for the general public and its not easy for the general public. The quality of teachers and teaching material varies greatly everywhere you go.

>> No.7242727

A lot of people lack the discipline for a STEM field.

>> No.7242833

>>7242567
Only reason I stayed away from a math degree at my school was because of all the strict requirements.

Why would I want to take 4 calc courses, complex/real analysis, abstract algebra, topology, and modern geometry.

Comp Sci degree required things like linear algebra, probability, number theory, graph theory, combinatroics, cryptography. All much more interesting. I can pick the rest up personally if I need/want too

>> No.7242859

>>7242567
A LOT of students go for "what they like," and what they like is often what is easy.

I personally get easy As in any writing course, history course, or law course; I ended up unintentionally minoring in history.

Most students gravitate to what "they're good at" and don't bother challenging themselves or looking at the big picture; i.e. what they'll do with their major.

I was bad at math in high school, and often didn't study properly. In college I finally applied myself and made sure I understood all of the material.

I'm currently in Calc. 1 and my average is a 97 at the moment; waiting to take my final. So many students in my class have averages lower than 60, look down on math, and justify their stupidity by saying they're majoring in something "that doesn't need math."

Honestly, I've always been nervous about doing poor in math classes, but after this semester I can see that as long you do the homework and make sure you understand the material there should be no room for failure.

>Main point

Most students are full of themselves or think math/science is too hard for them.

>> No.7242879

>>7242721
>We still havent figured out a good way to teach people things.
I don't think that is true at all, undergrad level material has been hashed out in hundreds of times in textbooks and lectures and it is about as efficient as it can get. If you want examples of things that aren't taught well then pick up any book on QFT or spintronics and you'll see just how glaring the difference in quality is- they are essentially written for someone who already knows the material or are a collection of articles.

The problem is with motivation to learn and student priorities. Students don't think "I want to know how to solve this type of problem", they think "I want to finish this homework". Similar thoughts on getting their degree, they want to be a physicist or a doctor, but if you went through a check list of skills they wouldn't say they want to learn/master Kepler's laws or organic chemistry. It's like everybody wants to be black but nobody wants to be black, you want your degree so you can get that STEMlord cred, but without putting the work in because the work seems like a chore. For those who want to know that stuff, it isn't actually a chore and more of a deadline nuisance, and all bullshit stuff aside a degree could be completed in two years.

Science and math also build on previous concepts, so in class students need to keep up. Falling behind mean falling off the face of the earth, you just can't keep going if you're totally lost. The problem is, you don't receive the wake up call that you're lost until its a bit too late because of grading lag time, and it isn't like the class is going to slow down for you and optimism clouds judgement. Toss on students taking five other classes the same semester and then everything starts to crumble. My "perfect system" would be to not allow students to continue in the class until they can demonstrate whatever concept, similar to how some students can test out of a course.

>> No.7242881

>>7242859
>calc 1
sorry bud, your ideas aren't really valid in higher level courses

>> No.7242897

>>7242879
>until they...

They have that, they're called finals

>> No.7243006

>>7242881
This so much. Calc 1 is by far the easiest math course anyone can take because if you're at the point where you've passed Algebra/Geometry/Pre-Calc, you've already learned enough to pick up pretty much everything in Calc 1 without much effort.

>> No.7243281
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7243281

>>7242578
>we've got too many scientists and don't what to do with them
>too many scientists

>> No.7243314

>>7242567
Education is considered a field for imbeciles, and imbeciles go into it.
At the college level, professors are valued for their research, prestige, and grants they bring in, not for their teaching ability.

Math especially suffers from this: each new generation has it drilled into them that math is boring, useless, and repetitive, and we lose many people who may have fallen in love with it under better circumstances.

>> No.7243370

>>7242833
Maybe because those topics are the basics of mathematics?

>> No.7243376

>>7243370
>basics
kek

>> No.7243386

>>7242833
>probability
>combinatorics
>graph theory
>more interesting than topology and geometry

You fucking what m8

>> No.7243411

>>7243386
Judging from his post he didn't take classes on those geometry and topology.
His opinion might be different if he did.

>> No.7243552

>>7242879
best post ITT

>> No.7243642

>>7242833
>I don't want to take four classes comprising the basis of all modern mathematics
I think you just don't like math

>> No.7243694

>>7243642
Guess your right
I felt no enjoyment from calculus 1 and 2. Everything I listed was great though, patterns and logic.

Am I making all the maths people cringe yet?

>> No.7243696

>>7243694
You're
Sorry, phone

>> No.7243733

>>7243642
not who you are replying too

But, you can like maths but not topics such as calculus/analysis. Look at James Grime.

>> No.7243747

>>7242567
>Why does college do such a good job of repelling people from Science & Math?

Because the professors are hardasses for everything in the intro classes. I've seen chemistry and Math professors who were rude, graded hard for the littlest mistake, and enjoyed failing you. Furthermore, they seem angry. I'm guessing because being a teacher wasn't their goal.

>> No.7243775

>>7243747
>Furthermore, they seem angry. I'm guessing because being a teacher wasn't their goal.
Wrong.

It's because math or physics or whatever is their passion and their strongest interest and the most important thing in their life and they can talk about it forever and just want to focus on doing research in the field.

And instead they are forced to teach a watered down retard version of the subject to a class full of engineering students who think their field is boring and don't give a shit about learning anything and just want to pass the class with a decent grade so they can move on to their engineering classes and graduate and get a good job.

>> No.7243797

>>7243775
Some university instructors, adjuct(the ones with masters) are not interested in expanding their field. Just teaching and doing their hobbies when they get home.

I had a math instructor who taught discrete maths in the summer, his other job was making video games

by the way, replying with "Wrong." or "Incorrect." brings out the pretentiousness in you.

>> No.7243854

>>7243694
I don't give a fuck about calculus; I was referring to the other courses you listed

>> No.7243867

>>7243797
Posting an asinine passive-aggressive comment to put people down who pissed you off brings out the asshole in you, I'm sorry for responding in kind.

Any teacher who is teaching as like a secondary thing like that is either not happy with his job because he's getting paid $30k and doesn't get to do anything fun or is doing it because he enjoys it. I guess you might have had one possibly at some point that was the former but it's much more likely the pissed off intro professors you had were in the situation I described.

It's really fucking frustrating.

>> No.7243881

>>7243867
Not mad or trying to bring anyone down

>> No.7243888

>>7242567
Well, I'm in maths an my faculty does its best to attract people.

>>7243747
>I've seen chemistry and Math professors who were rude, graded hard for the littlest mistake

Maths is not about calculation. If you know your shit, you don't make any mistakes in maths (or very rarely). You either can solve the problem or you can't.

>> No.7244017

>>7243888
>Maths is not about calculation.

Everything below Differential Equaitions and on the same level is all about calculation. It's not until someone hits their third year+ when they start branching into "it's either you can solve it or not".

>> No.7244023

>>7243775
>It's because math or physics or whatever is their passion and their strongest interest and the most important thing in their life and they can talk about it forever and just want to focus on doing research in the field.
>And instead they are forced

They aren't forced, it's just that they weren't good enough to be a researcher only. If they are teaching low level intro classes at a CC or at a university then that means that they could not cut it in the research world. That's just how it is. There is no reason to take it on intro students who are also forced to take on these intro classes because those intro classes are needed for their major of choice.

>> No.7244135

>>7243775

engineers aren't the only ones who need intro classes like Physics. Nursing students also need them.

>> No.7244233
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7244233

>>7242567
Well I'm on /sci/ so it's not like you faggots can make fun of me since you're all autistic anyway. What I like to do to make anything more fun is I just assign martial arts ranks to it.

For example, people who've completed high school math (up to Calculus) successfully are what I call your average Math practitioner. People who are doing advanced math in university are Math Experts.

Anyone who has a Master's degree or PhD in an Math field is a Master Mathematician.

Anyone who's published significant work and is known throughout the global Math community is a Grandmaster Mathematician.

I like to think of it as training. Instead of training your body, your train your mind. It helps me on a lot of subjects when I can immerse myself into it like that. It's a journey.

>> No.7244238

>>7244233
If you hadn't already admitted to be autistic I would have pointed it out

Welcome Brother, you're home

>> No.7244256

>>7244233
You have the same take on it as me. Well, similar anyway but I do like to think of martial arts as an interesting metaphor for motivation.