What is the hardest major and why is it Math?

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What is the hardest major and why is it Math? Anonymous Wed Apr 15 09:37:51 2015 No.7196063 [DELETED]

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 09:46:45 2015 No.7196085 >>7196063 Medicine requires A LOT more work than math.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 09:49:06 2015 No.7196089 >>7196063 > one of the lowest drop out rates > hardest

>>	Newt !!ide7f46h3TC Wed Apr 15 09:51:01 2015 No.7196090 >>7196085 Artificial difficulty. Medicine is just memorising a lot of easy-to-understand facts and stories. The difficulty only comes from having enough time to memorise it all. The stories in maths are a lot more difficult to understand.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 09:52:22 2015 No.7196095 Math is not difficult everything can be derived biology is difficult everything has to be memorized

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 09:59:36 2015 No.7196106

>>7196090

It's not artificially difficult. The body is designed that way. There are incredible layers of complexity to it.

Medicine takes supercomputers to model even a small fraction of the physics and chemistry involved with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

Saying medicine / biology is easy. That's like saying math is easy because you mastered high school geometry or algebra.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:02:12 2015 No.7196109 You become a walking computer, another word for mathematician.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:03:11 2015 No.7196111 >>7196095 Any low IQ retard can memorize

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:04:28 2015 No.7196115 >>7196111 Any idiot can learn something logical.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:05:08 2015 No.7196119

>>7196063
Because it is a major where graduates typically graduate with a low GPA. It doesn't matter to other graduate departments that their applicants were math majors, but it bars/hinders them from getting into other professional schools like law and medicine where a high GPA is an absolute requirement.

For instance take two students Johnny who majored in math with a 3.4 GPA and Sally who majored in Communications with a 3.9 GPA. Say they both apply to the same top 10 law school. Johnny won't get in as opposed to Sally, even if they both have the same LSATs because Sally is on paper (to law adcoms) a more intelligent and a better student than Johnny who fucked up by majoring in math. Sally is more intelligent and made better decisions than Johnny in this regards.

Now Johnny tries to apply for jobs. Companies don't understand that he went to an elite school in math that has GPA grade deflation. He tries out for a consulting company but doesn't get hired over Tiffany who majored in Political Science with a 3.8 GPA from the same school. She has better communication skills, marketing skills and internship experience. What does Johnny have? An REU with a math publication. This means shit to a consulting firm.

Johnny then says fuck it and gets his MS degree with a 3.9 GPA. He applies for analytics jobs and doesn't get in anywhere because he has 0 work experience. What is Johnny to do? He is now broke, in debt, has no job experience and his 3.9 GPA in pure math means absolute nothing to the outside world.

Maybe he'll go for a PhD in math and settle for shit pay the next 3-4 years & then fight for post-docs and then fight for a teaching position at a shitty liberal arts school.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:07:38 2015 No.7196126 >>7196119 > Because it is a major where graduates typically graduate with a low GPA. > math more like the 3rd highest graduating GPA

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:11:01 2015 No.7196132 >>7196119 Um... STEM majors on average have the lowest GPA. Yet, they tend to be the highest paid on average. Observation / reality does not fit the argument suggested by importance of major by GPA.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:13:35 2015 No.7196139 >>7196115 yet they will never be able to understand it

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:13:49 2015 No.7196140

>>7196132
That is because STEM majors (E, for engineering) are very applicable and applied degrees for industry. They typically get co-ops and internships with a company before they graduate.

Pure math majors aren't as directly applicable to industry, and they typically lack industry experience. In engineering, your GPA matters less than the skills you bring to the company. I know of engineers with sub-3.0 GPAs that get paid very well.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:14:40 2015 No.7196142

>>7196089
That could much more easily be related for original enrollment motivation.

Things with high drop out rates like engineering or medicine are sought after degrees because often because of promise of jobs and high pay. This leads to more people without a real interest in them enrolling in them. Combine this with the very high workload (mathematics/understanding combined with alot of memorization of facts in either) leads to alot of people dropping out.

I would assume mathematics, a degree much less hyped up (from a career perspective) would attract people much more actually passionate about math, who genuinely are interested and enjoy it and therefore stay in and work for it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:16:31 2015 No.7196147 >>7196132 As evidenced by post >>7196119

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:18:37 2015 No.7196152 >>7196140 Math majors are doing quite fine on Wall Street.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:20:14 2015 No.7196156 >>7196152 Math majors with PhDs, not pure math majors with BS degrees.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:22:27 2015 No.7196159 >>7196156 Applied mathematicians with BS's do fine. How many people are actually foolish enough to do a complete math major for only the BS without some courses on application?

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:26:09 2015 No.7196163

>>7196159
Applied Math maybe--but a lot of students major in pure math with no applications. But even still, Applied Math BS degrees aren't the ones on Wall street. Add PhD to that and expand it to any STEM field. Those are the ones on WallStreet.

The guys on wall street with BS degrees are the liberal arts majors from Harvard/Yale/Princeton with banking/hedge fund connections. They don't require PhD level math knowledge and get paid equal (or better) than those with STEM PhDs

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:28:27 2015 No.7196165 >>7196063 >undergraduate math >hard >not a fuckton of electives >not just muh proofs and extraction after anal LEL Try physics faggot

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:29:30 2015 No.7196166 >>7196163 I am unable to locate data to support this argument. Your source?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:34:47 2015 No.7196175 >>7196166 It is pretty well known knowledge that economics majors and the like from Harvard are fed into Finance every year. You sound fairly ignorant.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:36:12 2015 No.7196176 >>7196165 Physics is easy bro. Try not being a dumb ass. Classical, E&M, QM were all easy as shit classes compared to functional analysis.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:36:40 2015 No.7196177 >>7196165 >physics >Hard >Every class in the major isn't just a paint-by-numbers money saving device >Not just a fuckton of integrals and algebra LEL

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:42:19 2015 No.7196184 >>7196175 In regards to this: >Applied Math maybe--but a lot of students major in pure math with no applications I cannot find any readily accessible data.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:42:31 2015 No.7196185

>>7196166
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/12/upshot/why-a-harvard-professor-has-mixed-feelings-when-students-take-jobs-in-finance.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/05/27/harvard_class_of_2014_elite_grads_are_still_flocking_to_finance_and_consulting.html

http://poetsandquants.com/2014/11/10/median-pay-rises-5k-for-harvards-mbas/

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/out-of-harvard-and-into-finance/

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/harvard-or-princeton-for-undergrad

It is pretty well known the elite Ivies has a lot of kids going to wall street and they make a fuckton more than you will with your Math degree.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:43:56 2015 No.7196188

>>7196184
Then fuck off, because you aren't good at finding shit on your own. Any math program worth their salt will allow students to take as many pure math course electives as they wish and that means students are free to not take applied courses and still graduate with a BS degree. You sound utterly autistic

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:44:51 2015 No.7196191 >>7196185 I'm amused and flattered. You think I'm a math major.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:47:51 2015 No.7196194 >>7196191 Which explains your dumb questions here: >>7196184 >>7196166

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:48:10 2015 No.7196196

>>7196188

No. An argument was made that most math majors are people who end up with dead end BS degrees.

Data on income for applied math and math+CS are available.

Data on income for pure math is difficult to sort out.

Rather than dismiss a knowledge gap (that's unscientific) and insulting someone else, it would be more useful to see what is out there (and lead to a new avenue of research).

I am trying to locate such information, but it is sorely lacking.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:49:32 2015 No.7196202 >>7196194 It's cute when people make assumptions. I assure you that I am not a math major.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 10:54:14 2015 No.7196207

>>7196202
No, if you were a math major you wouldn't be asking questions as you did in the linked replies. You are too fucking retarded to understand the point I made.

>>7196196
>Data on income for applied math and math+CS are available.

Where did I say CS and Math double major? I'm discussing pure math only. It is pretty common knowledge that if all you have to offer is math analytic skills and nothing else, then you will have a difficult time marketing yourself for a job. Industries want people with specific skills like programming, statistics, marketing, sales, engineering and the like. Why hire an autistic pure math guy with no programming skills when you can hire a Statistics major with SAS, Python, R, MySQL, etc. skills?

>Rather than dismiss a knowledge gap (that's unscientific) and insulting someone else, it would be more useful to see what is out there (and lead to a new avenue of research).

I am trying to locate such information, but it is sorely lacking.

I think you answered your own question here fucktard

>Data on income for pure math is difficult to sort out.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 11:01:41 2015 No.7196222

>>7196207
>finance is mostly econ majors, not math
>math in finance is mostly phd's

Those points are clear. But you also argued most math majors are pure math, not applied.

>I'm discussing pure math only.

So am I. That's where my line of questioning is going.

Your line of reasoning /arguments hinges on that topic.

>I think you answered your own question here fucktard

Not very science-minded, are you? Also, I believe you're violating forum rules with being abusive.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 11:09:08 2015 No.7196232

>>7196222
> I believe you're violating forum rules with being abusive

Who isn't abusive on this board? If I offended you I apologize.

>Those points are clear. But you also argued most math majors are pure math, not applied.

No, I was arguing most strictly pure math majors aren't employable in industry.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 11:27:13 2015 No.7196242

>>7196165
Pure maths masters student here

I go to a university in the UK where people have never heard of "electives", all you do from day one is go to mathematics lectures, and do hard sums.

It absolutely was harder than physics, in my first term of first year about 10% of people dropped out or changed course to physics or engineering.

They all said it was more work but the work was easier, so depending on what you would define as "hardest".

Pro tip: Google "hardest undergraduate degree", the answer will be pure maths at a UK university (cambridge)

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 11:40:35 2015 No.7196269 >>7196090 why do engineers and other stem faggot have such a simplistic view on the world?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 11:48:06 2015 No.7196276 >>7196176 >freshman/sophomore physics is easy bro unlike this upper division math class Wow who would have guessed

newt !!mNntvIW5YjR Wed Apr 15 11:55:46 2015 No.7196292

>>7196106
>Medicine takes supercomputers to model even a small fraction of the physics and chemistry involved with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

Medicine the subject does not involve what you are talking about. That's medical physics and medical chemistry, which are subfields of physics and chemistry.

>>	newt !!mNntvIW5YjR Wed Apr 15 11:56:47 2015 No.7196294 >>7196269 why are you so unable to argue your position? you can't say anything substantive because you know that I'm right.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:00:17 2015 No.7196298 >>7196269 What was simplistic in the post you just quoted?

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:03:10 2015 No.7196308

>>7196294
You haven't proved your own argument, I don't have to prove shit nigga

>>7196298
hurrrr [my field] is hard because it requires understanding, but [other field] is all useless memorization XDD

You took intro to bio and think that is the pinnacle of natural science

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 12:09:24 2015 No.7196317

>>7196308
I never pretended this, but it's true that medicine and biology is based more on facts and observations than on rational thinking. You won't use logical reasoning to determine something. And while memorization can be exerced and improved, maths and physics can be harder for a lot of people, since it requires more logical understanding than memorization.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:04:48 2015 No.7196396 >>7196308 >I'm incompetent to prove shit nigga FTFY

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:15:58 2015 No.7196414 For intellectual challenge, physics is more difficult. For overall challenge, i.e. hours you have to sit through maybe engineering or medicine (being motivated and constant is a difficult skill). For intellectual challenge math would be second.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:34:01 2015 No.7196442

>>7196414
In what possible universe is physics harder than maths? It is just applied maths, and chances are the people who only study maths will be learning harder maths than those who learn it with other things thrown in. Hence, subjects which are essentially applied maths (ie physics and engineering) will be easier

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 13:52:43 2015 No.7196459 >>7196442 no. math has plain and simple rules laid out that you follow. reality isn't governmed by math, you have to deal with what you're given. engr/phys is harder than math

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 14:04:16 2015 No.7196476 >>7196119 >being this redpill'd

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 14:35:54 2015 No.7196531 >>7196476 >being this in denial of reality

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 14:38:33 2015 No.7196537 >>7196476 it's also just has its facts wrong. oh wait that's all red pills.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 15:47:32 2015 No.7196677

>>7196269

this is actually hilarious. And I study in a stem field.

Probably 90% of my class are perfectly one-sided and in most senses incredibly stupid. They're just really good at maths but incredibly dumb in every other way.

They sure do love thinking they have it all figured out and have a whole bucket of defense mechanisms to explain to them why what they're doing is probably meaningless and few people like them and they can't explain anything out of the wide array of things in the world, except mathematical concepts.

Before I started studying I remembered thinking that these STEM people would be open-minded and clever.

Nah. They're dumb as shit when it comes to nearly everything except maths, and they walk around thinking they understand the complexity of everything else and maths is even more complex than that.

Surprising, really.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 15:51:26 2015 No.7196683

>>7196442

this is the most autistic thing I have read in a good while.

"how is physics harder than maths, it is just applied maths".

no bro. you make up maths. and it has to perfectly follow reality or it is flawed. you keep constructing trying to make sure that in every case it holds. then you teach all those laws based on each other to people and pretend there is a difficulty in there that surpasses hitting a great free kick in football or correctly identify a tumour or being able to keep a friend for more than a year.

Fucking autists lol

if physics were just applied maths we wouldn't need to do experiments would we. we wouldn't need to observe. or build. or create. We'd just sit with a fucking pen and invent shit and conclude for no fucking reason and do nothing with it wouldn't we.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:00:12 2015 No.7196693 >>7196063 I think you meant to say analytic philosophy.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:04:53 2015 No.7196708

>>7196414
The level of abstraction present in math is higher than in physics.
In math you learn how to deal with simple problems, then generalize your methods to more complex problems.
In physics you learn tricks and apply them.

While physics as a subject is more interesting on a philosophical level I feel like this part stays more in the background of the courses.

Source: I've done both majors

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:10:24 2015 No.7196725 >>7196677 I always thought the physics-mustard-race-every-other-field-is-terrible thing was just a friendly jab at other majors, like an injoke. Turns out most physicis students actually think like that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:29:56 2015 No.7196766 >>7196085 >Medicine >major worthless

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:36:26 2015 No.7196787

>>7196708

>in physics you do tricks apply them

ye buddy. You have done both majors on pleb school level.

and again, there isn't much philosophy in physics. Only physicists think there is "much philosophy" in it. There is much maths in it, not philosophy.

There is much philosophy in Philosophy. Or Psychology. Or Ethics. Or fields like that. Not physics. Again, only deluded stem-tards think that it is philosophical, just like only math-tards think "physics is just applying maths tricks".

Sigh at the stupidity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:42:31 2015 No.7196801 >>7196787 Natural Philosophy...

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:54:20 2015 No.7196825 >>7196801 No such thing as natural philosophy anymore. There's philosophy, and there's science. They're completely separate unless you're using pre 20th century definitions. But why would you do that?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 16:56:18 2015 No.7196830 >>7196825 There's metaphysics in physics.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:04:38 2015 No.7196850

>>7196677
Umm.... have you been to a good math phD program that has a relatively high number of american students? Maybe what you say is true of undergrad STEM majors, but most US-educated kids who are good at math that I know are incredibly well rounded--good at writing, know their philosophy, literature, art, culture, etc. They read about current events, follow politcs, and can have good, insightful conversations with others. The only "math master race" people I know in real life (who suck at other subjects) are non-US math students. Most american math students at top PhD programs that I know have unbelievable well-rounded knowledge and intellectual abilities. And I don't want to hear any of this "yeah, but American math is pleb." I'm talking about the american students I know at/who went to Harvard, Pricceton, Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, Uchicago, and other schools for PhDs in pure math. Most took liberal arts core courses as undergrads and got easy A's (me and one of my friends who went to the same PhD programs as me took the same postmodern lit class, and our professor tried to convince us to study lit for a living by the end of the semester).

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:07:23 2015 No.7196861

>>7196830
You might need to know some metaphysics in physics, because science views the world from a certain framework, but no metaphysical questions are scientific, and no physics questions (speaking of it a science) are philosophical. There's really no discussion to be had about it, because it's all semantics. This just happens to be what we mean when we use these words in the modern setting. Metaphysics isn't physics. Even if you talk about it in a physics class, it isn't physics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:18:18 2015 No.7196896 >>7196861 >no metaphysical questions are scientific >no physics questions are philosophical. Both meaningless statements.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 17:49:05 2015 No.7196967

>>7196850

right.

and you expect, that by taking an art course you understand philosophy.

sweet. just take one course in house-hold economics and you get maths.

np!

what could thousands of years of great philosophers possibly have figured out that a maths idiot who took a post-lit class doesn't know?

Clearly a secretary who took 8 weeks of excel classes really understand mathematics and is a true mathematician.

is it possible to be this box-minded? Like, do you not reveal to yourself how little understanding you have?

This is what I talk about, I talk to people with your mindset every day and it is amusing when I am in a good mood but mostly just sad.

You can have good insightful conversations, yes so can a car mechanic. You just have no clue what you dabble with when you talk about a subject like the study of the mind after taking a literature class. I would love it if your brother or sister turned out to have severe schizophrenia or deep depression and you appoint a guy who took a liberal arts course to fix his/her head.

:D If anything this thread just confirms you'll find the same boxminded crap going on at stem schools around the world.

And no, I don't go to a uni full of murricans. In my class we have mostly northern Europeans, eastern Europeans and Asians.

We sometimes download the tests from the same courses from for example MIT and lol at the level of the questions on the exams though :D

newt !!4hLDsGjfbyU Wed Apr 15 18:08:07 2015 No.7197024

>>7196308
you're being totally dishonest with yourself if you claim that the deductive problem-solving component of medicine and biology is as hard as mathematics.
You're being dishonest with yourself if you claim that medicine and biology are as hard to understand as mathematics.

newt !!4hLDsGjfbyU Wed Apr 15 18:13:51 2015 No.7197046

>>7196414
the most difficult programs in the world will be in mathematics rathr htan physics just because there is greater variance in talent in maths than in physics.

to convince yourself of this, consider the fact that every IMO competitor has easily enough aptitude to compete at the IPO but relatively few IPO competitors would be able to do anything at the IMO.
the top 1% or 0.1% of a given age group in terms of mathematical ability are on a different level from the equivalent percentile of physics ability.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 18:15:02 2015 No.7197050 >>7196967 excuse me sir but are you by any chance French?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 18:17:50 2015 No.7197057 >>7197024 Huh I wouldn't know since I haven't studied both at the same time. Have you?

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 18:23:45 2015 No.7197069

lmao at you guys talking as if more abstract == more difficult
not everyone thinks abstract is hard or applied is easy
i know people who can eat galois theory at breakfast but still have trouble expanding a taylor series, and people who can see an "obvious" variable change in PDEs which no one would ever notice but have never gone beyond linalg
different skills for different people is all
i don't follow why some people still subscribe to that xkcd-tier maymay of "purity" being better or something

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 18:24:30 2015 No.7197072

>>7196850
> Most american math students at top PhD programs that I know have unbelievable well-rounded knowledge and intellectual abilities. And I don't want to hear any of this "yeah, but American math is pleb." I'm talking about the american students I know at/who went to Harvard, Pricceton, Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, Uchicago, and other schools for PhDs in pure math.

This has to do more with upper middle to upper class upbringing. Hence, why they are at those schools to begin with.

newt !!4hLDsGjfbyU Wed Apr 15 18:30:50 2015 No.7197091

>>7197057
I studied natural science at Cambridge in the first year you study a broad range of subjects and end up becoming progressively more focused.
in my first year I studied cell biology, chemistry and physics, in my second year I studied chemistry and pharmacology and in my third year I mostly did physical and theoretical chemistry.
So I have experience in undergraduate biology and physics. Physics is harder to understand than biology in exactly the way I described for maths and maths possesses the same characteristics physics does that makes its stories more difficult to understand than the stories in biology.

My experience confirms what anyone with a vague understanding biology and physical sciences/maths would reason is the case.

I don't know what you're trying to achieve by being so dishonest.

If I posted an international biology Olympiad question we both know that the question would merely be a case of arcane knowledge recollection with some problem solving component that requires some level of understanding and problem solving ability.

If I posted an international mathematics Olympiad question on the other hand it would likely be totally inaccessible for you even though you should know all the highschool-level mathematics necessary to answer the question because the level of deductive problem solving ability and the level of deep fluency and understanding of the subject would be totally out of your reach.

just be honest with yourself. have some intellectual integrity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 18:34:20 2015 No.7197100 For myself I've always struggled more with physics than with math but now it's starting to be the other way and it's kind of nice.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 18:42:39 2015 No.7197124

>>7197091
Well I dunno I'm at ease with abstract stuff but I found that memorizing a lot of knowledge and putting it together is also a skill of its own right. This is coming from a math/physics guy who branched out to biophysics because it looked cool at the time, and damn biology is complicated. Don't know why you automatically assume abstract means harder.

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 18:44:49 2015 No.7197129

>>7197091
this

to put it bluntly: problem solving > knowing facts

While we are all on the topic of majors, can anyone tell me how difficult it is to find a well-paying industry job in chemistry? I'm majoring in biochemistry and have 2 years research experience in theoretical/computational chemistry. I plan on going to graduate school for Chemistry.

newt !!Gqn2cGvMti4 Wed Apr 15 18:54:43 2015 No.7197144

>>7197124
It isn't just a matter of abstraction, it's about the level of deductive reasoning necessary to solve problems and how difficult the subject is to understand.

At typical story in biology is "when this happen, then this chemical messenger activates this, which releases this enzyme which catalyses this reaction and the product of that reaction activates this gprotein coupled receptor which causes the release of calcium ions which..."
every part of the story is tremendously easy ot understand. If you had the patience it would not be that hard to tell the story to highschool children.
and similarly the kind of questions that you can ask about the system rarely require a high level of problem solving ability and deductive reasoning.

By contrast telling about say uniform coonvergeance so that they actually understood it would be much more challenging. and it's problems are patently more difficult.

Again consider an IMO question vs a IBO question

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 19:00:01 2015 No.7197150 >>7196242 >hard sums So things like 1+2+3?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 19:02:32 2015 No.7197157 >>7197150 No, I hear they do that after they teach you triple integrals, but i'm not even finished with my masters yet, I can't face any PhD work

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 19:18:42 2015 No.7197175

>>7197144
>By contrast telling about say uniform coonvergeance so that they actually understood it would be much more challenging. and it's problems are patently more difficult.
i dunno, uniform convergence looks pretty easy to explain to a high schooler but you just try devising a protocol in biology with different enzymes and shit
i'm by no means an expert but it's clear you haven't done any advanced bio and still reason on the same lines as retards on /lit/ ("durr what do we need math for now that we have calculators durr it's just a bunch of formulas etc.")
i think you just want to have a dick contest, i mean it's okay i don't care much since i probably studied the same things as you amusingly enough

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 15 19:36:22 2015 No.7197205 >>7196063 >What is the hardest major? my dick

Anonymous Wed Apr 15 19:47:56 2015 No.7197230

>>7197144

Try modeling the mammalian brain using computers and explaining that to highschool kids.

Try modeling fluid and pipe mechanics of an entire active vascular tree. Mathematicians and physicists have difficulty grasping it and need supercomputers to do so.

Try explaining proton spin signaling to get accurate pictures of the human body in a magnetic resonance scanner to a highschooler. They'll go cross-eyed.

newt !!Gqn2cGvMti4 Wed Apr 15 21:30:01 2015 No.7197428

>>7197230
>Try modeling the mammalian brain using computers and explaining that to highschool kids.

Theoretical neuroscience is a branch of mathematics.

>Try modeling fluid and pipe mechanics of an entire active vascular tree. Mathematicians and physicists have difficulty grasping it and need supercomputers to do so.
This is fluid mechanics, also a branch of mathematics.

Do you genuinely think biologists are the ones solving problems involving fluid mechanics in biological systems?

>Try explaining proton spin signaling to get accurate pictures of the human body in a magnetic resonance scanner to a highschooler. They'll go cross-eyed.
This is medical physics.

None of the things you've mentioned are things that you'd learn how to do studying biology.

They're mathematics and physics problems with a biological context.

You're clueless.
You probably think that it's geographers who learn how to do the complex partial differential equations involved in weather simulation and prediction.

newt !!Gqn2cGvMti4 Wed Apr 15 21:40:02 2015 No.7197456

>>7197175
>you just try devising a protocol in biology with different enzymes and shit

uh huh, right. pretty much every story in biology about how something works is easy to understand.

I don't really care about a dick measuring contest, this is simply a matter of fact.

mathematics clearly requires more problem solving ability and involves more difficult problems and studying things that are harder to understand while in biology and medicine the difficulty is the volume of relatively-easy-to-understand material that you need to learn.

just look at the difference between the problem solving ability needed in an IMO question and an IBO question.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:18:03 2015 No.7197754 >>7197230 I don't understand your point, those are math and physics problems that have little to nothing to do with biology.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:22:38 2015 No.7197769

>>7197754
>>7197428
Ah, shit. It looks like you guys are right. Well, at least i learned today that math is truly the hardest and i'm just a fucking shit tier faggot biologist who wishes he could understand half of what goes on in lower divison math courses

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:28:21 2015 No.7197784 Let's get one thing straight at least: anyone that says "maths" is autistic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:29:49 2015 No.7197788 >>7197428 >everything is a branch of math lel you spergs are a special kind of retard

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:29:52 2015 No.7197789 >>7197769 Did you ever actually create any of the models you mentioned in a biology class?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:31:32 2015 No.7197792 >>7197789 >only math majors know how to do math fucking lel, get your sororityslutwhosgonnateachmiddleschoolmath major out of here faggot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:32:54 2015 No.7197795 >>7197792 You didn't answer the question. Using a complex piece of software doesn't mean you've done any math or computer science.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:33:12 2015 No.7197796 >>7197789 Haha, no. I'm just an insecure fucking retarded bio guy who's desperate for the acceptance of mathematicians. You guys are the master race and i should just probably hang myself. Wbu?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:33:33 2015 No.7197798 >>7197784 or from the UK

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:35:21 2015 No.7197804 >>7197798 >Implying what you said is different Most euros are autistic champ...Understand? They lack communication skills over the internet and can't express themselves without berating others.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 00:58:01 2015 No.7197849 >>7196176 Don't know about you, but our physics program is a fucking gauntlet. Undergraduate EnM professor felt like having fun and threw down some Jackson from time to time.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 10:34:43 2015 No.7198447

>>7197769
>>7197788

>using angry sarcasm in place of an argument

who said anything about lower division math courses? All those problems you mentioned are things that maths and physics students would do in their 3rd year and are still open areas of research for phds and post docs.

The biologist's job in those areas of research is to provide the biological knowledge and experimental data, the mathematicians and physicists then have to try and simulate, model and solve the complex systems.

You can't even be consistent.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 14:13:06 2015 No.7198720 >>7197456 you have a skewed definition of "problem solving" >>7198447 except running simulations and models requires prior biological knowledge if you want them to be relevant, trust me i'm a biophysicist/bioinformatician

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 14:34:29 2015 No.7198746
File: 378 KB, 1280x1030, 1427683245061.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7196089

This.

As a chemist, I saw a lot of people flocking to STEM in college, and I deal with a fair share of them day to day. You can spot someone who's just looking for a paycheck compared with someone who's passionate about their work from a mile away. The people who are passionate have a drive that allows them to push through when things are at their toughest.

My best friend in college was as uninterested and frustrated with math as you can be, because the questions you discuss in lower level classes don't require you to think. As he moved onto stuff like real analysis, something clicked.

He quit his job, took 20 hours a semester until he graduated (on time, even after wasting two years doing Spanish), attended Rice University (arguably in the top 3 applied STEM schools in the US), and is just now finishing his PhD. The guy had companies FIGHTING over him before he graduated, and now he's making several times what I do.

It's the drive that got him through it though. Nothing but an earnest desire to know will get you through that kind of coursework.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 15:24:39 2015 No.7198813

>>7196242

the first link that comes up when I copy paste your sentence is this

http://www.thebestcolleges.org/top-10-easiest-and-hardest-college-degree-majors/

whose statistics put maths in the "easiest" bracket and engineering at the top of "hardest" based on drop out figures.

I can personally confirm for my little sample size, I study at the largest uni in my country for stem, I study Physics and we take every maths course on the Mathematical institute, no "special cuddly Physics maths", we do the exact same maths as mathematicians take, we take it with them, we have the same exam and everything as them.

The maths is usually really hard for students though, by now (end of 2nd year) we have roughly had 75% drop out, class reduced to about 1/4th. This is a quality university by international standards, and the main reason students drop out -I believe- is because of two things mainly:

First they drop out because maths was too hard

Second they drop out because the pace is so damn high in the Physics courses.

I just scoff at the idea that mathematicians keep thinking maths is so damn difficult compared to everything else: you are the most rigorous and well defined branch in STEM, it is all man made and you only work with things other people have created and the entire subject is based on a fairly simple and basic school of thought (logic). Why do you believe that problem-solving within that field is so particularly hard?

Like, a proper physicist after 15 years of hard studies can't even predict what a dice is going to land on when you flip it down a set of stairs.

You can study the mind all your life and still have trouble putting a diagnosis on a random kid that behaves funnily.

Do you even have a fair grasp on the complexity of all the other subjects you scoff at, while your own man-made subject is constantly rigorously defined without a doubt, for the frame for you to solve a problem within to be as unambiguous as possible?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 16:13:51 2015 No.7198904 >>7196063 Math isn't shit dude. The only reason more folks aren't into it is because it's taught by retards that fail to motivate students and / or use effective and efficient teaching methods.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 16:48:32 2015 No.7198974 The hardest major is the one you have an intense disinterest in. I'm a math major, and while objectively it is harder than say, History, if I was forced to do History I'd find it far harder to graduate.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 17:13:05 2015 No.7199023
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Mathfag here. I hate you all. The answer is materials engineering. Why? If you don't know why then kill yourself because you're not qualified to be talking about which is the hardest.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 17:39:13 2015 No.7199081 Isn't History the hardest major?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 17:44:30 2015 No.7199096 >>7198974 Even with incredible interest in math it's still incredibly hard to solve all of the unsolved math problems that exist today. Even if you hated history a lot you could still do just fine by forcing yourself to memorize things.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 17:48:46 2015 No.7199112 >>7198904 lmao this reads like bait but i'm tempted to say no

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 18:02:13 2015 No.7199132 >>7199096 >to solve all of the unsolved math problems that exist today That would be an unrealistic goal anyway. Even if you hated mathematics a lot you could still do just fine by forcing yourself to memorize things.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 18:03:26 2015 No.7199135

Allow me to outline the life of an average bio major
>Grows up with parents telling/forcing to become a doctor
>Goes to college
>Sits through a ton of weeder classes, with each one chipping away at his GPA
>Forces himself to socialize with professors, practically begging for research positions in order to look presentable to a medical adcomm.
>Spends all his free time volunteering and building up his resume.
>By the end he has a ~3.5 gpa that he earned with sweat, blood and tears
Then one of 3 things happen
>Gets into medical school, graduates with over half a million in debt, and becomes the average money grubbing doctor after he realizes that he wasted his youth for a job that has him live in a hospital
>Doesn't get into med school. His parents look down on him forever. Ends up being clinically depressed and unemployable because of his bio degree. After a few years he might get his life together, but still realizes that he wasted his youth.
>Gets into med school but is so burnt out he ends up getting stuck in a family medicine residency in Alaska or something. Will forever be in debt because of the shit pay he's getting.
The only exceptions to this are the smart ones that go for Dental or Pharmacy and the people who are genuinely interested in Biology and go on for a Ph.D.
They then realize it was a mistake because there's many more Ph.D's out of work than there are in work, and even if you do get a job, it's publish or perish.
Biology is the hardest major because it fucks your life the hardest.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 18:06:18 2015 No.7199141 >>7199135 >>Sits through a ton of weeder classes, with each one chipping away at his GPA Troll detected. There's no weeder classes in biology, nice try.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 18:08:12 2015 No.7199150

>>7199141
Are you fucking retarded?
Go to any school known for being "pre-med"
Even the fucking Bio 1 course will be a weeder class.
The average bio 1 grade at my school is a C- because of this shit.
I've had many friends get weeded out in what are supposed to be very straightforward courses.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 20:01:14 2015 No.7199382 File: 108 KB, 419x497, Screen Shot 2015-04-16 at 2.43.25 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7196063 Meat Science.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 21:25:21 2015 No.7199523 >>7196459 you have no clue what math is right?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 21:32:55 2015 No.7199536 Any class is only as hard as a professor wants it to be. I could make african american poetry 1000x harder than quantum mechanics if I felt like it. Discussing the "hardest major" is meaningless.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 22:37:54 2015 No.7199624

I'd say the top three hardest majors in college are...

1) Physics
2) Pure Mathematics
3) Applied Mathematics

I'm currently doing a double major in pure mathematics and applied physics (atmospheric). Physics requires a chit tonne of work; it's not only the theoretical component thats with it. The experimental work is monstrous at my university; they're times where I had to in the stayed in the lab for 4+ hours... Also the workload compared to mathematics in general is quite big. I usually breeze through my maths problem sets in a hour or two lol.

Of course pure maths beats physics in terms of abstraction. It's funny how most posters here assume that physics is all about plug and chug (you guys probably did high school physics or first year physics). When it comes to physics you need to be proficient in writing and verbal reasoning (it has to be top-notch). Which is why physicists are not only good at mathematics, but also good with writing/language skills.

I also found physicists more sharper and intelligent than mathematicians. They're also a lot more versatile; not only their good at maths, but they are also good at programming, writing, ..., etc.

Also a lot of mathematicians pick up an interesting physics later in their careers.There's much more chit to be done with physics than mathematics in terms of research. I know you guys lust over physicists. Sooner or later I betcha all of you's secretly I want to be a physicist. Lel.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 22:42:24 2015 No.7199632 >>7199523 my uncles a math phd. your babby tier major is only percieved as difficult to you and other spergs on /sci/. nobody in the real world considers it difficult. and rightly so.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 22:44:40 2015 No.7199635 >>7199624 I did a double major in physics and mathematics and agree wholeheartedly, even though i did theoretical physics/not much lab at all

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 22:47:23 2015 No.7199639 >>7199624 except engineering requires more labs, larger workload, and the same theoretical derivations you'd find in phys. engineering is the true master race though because they actually make things with their knowledge

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 22:49:27 2015 No.7199642 >>7199639 >the same theoretical derivations you'd find in phys lol no

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 22:58:35 2015 No.7199650 >>7197069 This. Domain specific knowledge is domain-specific

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:03:39 2015 No.7199659 >>7198813 my god, the rekt is real and palpable.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:16:05 2015 No.7199686

>math and physics spergs circle jerking over pointless rigor metrics
>tfw chemical engineering master race, could've done these subjects if they actually paid a living wage

There is no point in having physicists anymore, we just make an engineer for that shit.

Nuclear physics -> nuclear engineer
fluid dynamics/aerodynamics - >aerospace engineer
medical physics -> biomedical engineer
quantum mechanics -> quantum engineer
etc there is a fucking engineer for everything
finance -> financial engineer

There is no point in going for physics, its not the cold war anymore. Research is collaborative and more specialized than ever. What is your shitty education in statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics, electrodynamics going to do for you? Specialization is the name of the game.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:19:23 2015 No.7199694 >>7196063 FOR YOU

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:22:10 2015 No.7199703 >>7199686 Are you really that stupid?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:23:15 2015 No.7199707 >>7199703 no really, if you aren't a clear prodigy/very gifted what is the point of getting a physics degree and teaching highschool.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:29:36 2015 No.7199723 >>7199382 Wtf, it's real: http://majors.osu.edu/pdfview.aspx?id=266

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:31:47 2015 No.7199729 >>7199686 >quantum engineer Good b8, m8.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:36:16 2015 No.7199737 >>7199723 Yeah, it's a degree program at OSU that some guy mentioned earlier on /g/.

Anonymous Thu Apr 16 23:49:34 2015 No.7199766

>>7199686
lmao this is true. pure maths and applied physics guy here. they also started teaching quantum physics two years ago to second and third year level to electrical/mechanical/aerospace eng undergrads. pretty much most engineers at my uni graduate with a dual degree in engineering and physics.

once quantum information/computing improves soon we will have quantum engineers (no joke),

also

mechanical physics = mechanical engineering
electrical physics = electrical engineering
chemical physics = chemical engineering

only research area left in physics is condensed matter. mathematicians are already taking over string theory, quantum gravity, and other physical topologies.

but that's not to say that physics is easy. I do think physics is the hardest major in college anyways and I do also think that engineering is a big sub-field in physics (nothing offensive, anyways 2014 nobel prize winners were engineers). I do regard engineers as physicists at grad level.

Anonymous Fri Apr 17 04:52:51 2015 No.7200116

>>7199639
i'm did EE and physics double during undergrad. the physics majors have less work definitely (but the good ones seem to take tons of math or engineering with the extra time).

however, to think that any engineering course has the same depth of theory as physics is retarded. its like thinking you know programming to the level of a CS major, or that a physicist knows math to the level of a math major. can you really be this stupid?

oh right, i forgot i was on a board full of undergrads who jerk off to their major and don't have either understanding or respect for other fields.

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 17 04:54:32 2015 No.7200119 >>7196063 I'd honestly give it to EE / CE guys because half the math majors I know struggle with programming, whereas ECE guys can do complex analysis

>>	Anonymous Fri Apr 17 05:12:05 2015 No.7200133 >>7196677 I study physics and here its about 50/50, half are brilliant also outside of their field and half only know physics and nothing else

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 00:39:33 2015 No.7202054 sociology is the hardest

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:02:15 2015 No.7202479

>>7196119
I browse /g/ a lot, and whenever they have career and pay-grade threads, the anons who say their "math-majors" get around 200k a year.

And every time someone asks them what they do, they say something like, "oh you know, sums and stuff"

So either math majors are applicable in the IT field or its a meme.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:23:45 2015 No.7202496

>>7197428
>>7197754
You two chucklefucks have got to be the biggest retards that have posted on /sci/ in months.

Do you honestly believe that biologists don't learn math and physics on top of their biology. Do you honestly believe that anyone ever calls in math and physics bachelor holders every time a problem needs to be solved? You study fundamentals in depth, everyone else studies fundamentals on top of their own discipline.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:26:03 2015 No.7202499 >>7202479 They make 300k starting, where did you hear 200

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:27:16 2015 No.7202500 >>7198447 Mathematicians don't know shit about simulation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:29:44 2015 No.7202504 What do you guys mean by college? Like university or what? This is super confusing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:31:25 2015 No.7202510 >>7202500 u wot m8? What makes you say that? Almost all of my research in math has been modelling and simulating, and the same is said for my advisers and professors.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:37:13 2015 No.7202516

>>7198813
This.

Math is definitely abstract and difficult, but as a degree it's one of the easiest to obtain. It doesn't have half the courseload of an engineering degree. Chemical engineering has a course density bigger than medicine and it has a lot of science and math heavy problems (not just baby DEs, but including complex analysis in control engineering etc.) on top of the bullshit intro law, business and sociology you need to study.

BUT a GOOD/professional mathematician is a lot more difficult and competitive getting an engineering degree.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:40:55 2015 No.7202517 >>7202500 And you don't know shit about mathematics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:41:02 2015 No.7202518 >>7199023 I'm a grad student in materials and I don't know why you think it's so hard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:43:41 2015 No.7202522 >>7199150 And you didn't think to ask yourself that maybe your friends are just retarded and would've drop out if they took english lit too?

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:44:56 2015 No.7202523

>>7196063

I myself can't get around maths. It's just so fucking absurd the kind of "tricks" you have to do. It's like a secret club that you have to attend for years sucking the cock of the more experienced ones until you start to "get it".

I'm majoring in plasma physics with CS in numerical methods as a minor. Lately, I've been attending maths courses on analytical geometry and topology, which are grad level, yet they are somehow a fuckton easier than the linear algebra and logic courses we had on the first year, which were the only courses ever where I had to retake the exam. I'm a total fucking retard when it comes to pure mathematics, but I don't think it is "hard". It just requires a different way of thinking.

I like measuring stuff, and coming up with conclusions, that follow from the observations, yet I would have never imagined to make. Building a model and then testing it, to find out it fucking sucks is also a thrill for some reason.

Maths is more like a Yenga tower, you need all the bottom pieces to get a solid tower. Physics is more like a box of legos that gets bigger and bigger as you go. Both require creativity, but I think physics requires a lot of imagination as well. Maths is like the Shaolin monk and trained for a hundred years in isolation, while physics is like the the big adventurer that has visited every corner of the world. i also like analogies.

Blesed be those who can comprehend both. I envy you, and I hope I get to work with some of you someday. You are like fucking Bruce Lee...

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:45:06 2015 No.7202524 >>7197428 >Theoretical neuroscience is branch of mathematics. Suuure, because neuroscience requires zero understanding of biology. Kill yourself you pretentious faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:45:29 2015 No.7202525 >>7199624 Your post is quite literally "my majors are the hardest" Have you ever even looked at a law or medicine or any other curriculum that isn't your own?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:46:16 2015 No.7202528 >>7202524 synapses are just an application of graph theory :^)

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:46:37 2015 No.7202530 >>7202523 I also can't type.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:50:21 2015 No.7202534 Why are biofags so buthurt around here?

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:50:23 2015 No.7202535

>>7196090
>It's hard in the wrong way
This is your actual argument.

I study medicine. Being a good doctor is more than just memorising facts. Importantly, a lot of things aren't known for sure. There are very few things we are absolutely certain of (smoking increases the risk of cancer, as an example), a lot of things we have fairly good guesses for and lots more that we really don't know much about (what causes schizophrenia?). This differentiates the subject from the hard sciences.

The fact that you need to interact with your patients in a way that you can help them is also very important. Being a good doctor is not just knowing your subject matter, but being able to get a good history, explain the problem at hand to the patient in a way that they can understand, and motivate them to follow through with treatment.

So yes, of course medicine is hard. Saying the difficulty is artificial is a bullshit cop out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:54:27 2015 No.7202543 >>7196063 see; Stinebrickner and Stinebrickner (2013) a study on the difficulty of different majors.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:54:32 2015 No.7202544 >>7202528 Right, and neurosciene graduates are the one's applying it while math majors post on /sci/ while whining about no grants.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:58:05 2015 No.7202549

>>7202535
Not in medicine myself, but MD also involves a lot of problem solving especially in internal medicine.

In general math and physics aspies are just delusional as fuck. The degrees are easy relative to professional degrees. But they never go outside their autism circlejerks so they wouldn't know anything about that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 08:58:57 2015 No.7202550 File: 47 KB, 550x550, fc,550x550,gold.u1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw pure mathfags making bullshit excuses because they are useless.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:01:27 2015 No.7202557 >>7202550 They aren't, to be honest. They are the best co-autohors you can get for almost any field involving mathematical models.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:01:32 2015 No.7202558 File: 476 KB, 1227x843, spines.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7202524 He's not far from the truth. Usually it's an expert that requests mathematicians to analyze a particular problem and try to yield algorithms to solve it. Image related.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:03:09 2015 No.7202563 >>7202549 These are just a few retards, who probably suck at fields they shitpost about. If they weren't retarded, they would understand that cross-field collaboration is more productive than circlejerking about your non-existent relevance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:07:29 2015 No.7202573 >>7202558 I don't disagree. Science requires interdisciplinary approach if it aims to bring progress. It's just these idiots, who think their field is the only one relevant that piss me off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:09:19 2015 No.7202579 >>7197205 No one asked about minors, my friend

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:10:46 2015 No.7202581 >>7202573 Oh. Yeah. It's annoying because they are almost undoubtedly juniors or lower in their education, arguing for why their major is the top dog.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:15:04 2015 No.7202587

>>7202557
I used to get co authors from the math department, but I just couldn't handle the autism after a while. They take ages to solve a problem and usually have to involve unnecessary rigour or things completely unrelated to the original problem. It takes months to get anything mildly productive out of them, and they have unreasonable financial/credit demands. Worst of all they aren't even good at what they do, not just (applied) math skills themselves, but at knowing how to apply what they learned on their own. They also smell.

Needless to say, nowadays when I'm stuck on a math problem I tend to go to engineers and physicists who are good at math from my own department instead.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:22:48 2015 No.7202598

>>7202587
Depends. Personally, I only have the greatest experiences from my collabs with folks from Math dept. Sometimes, you just run into an idiot.

But I agree that generally, physicists / engineers are more flexible and down to earth than mathematicans.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:25:13 2015 No.7202600 >>7202581 Yeah. And they just pollute /sci/ with their cancer because IRL they would be simply told to fuck off by anyone with brain.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:30:51 2015 No.7202610

>>7202587
I think this is b8, but it could be that since I'm deeply involved in my math department, that I can't discern the autism we exude. Most of the PhDs in engineering and physics are cool as fuck, too. It's the BS students that are annoying as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:33:35 2015 No.7202615 >>7202610 PhDs in general are cool. BS students in general are faggots.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:36:00 2015 No.7202621

>>7202598
>>7202610

I should add specifically that my university's math department has an extremely poor international reputation and their underg curriculum here is shit. The reason I used them is because I had high-school friends in the department who have since left, but I kept other connections.

I wish I knew anyone from other math departments, but aside from picking random faculty and emailing them I don't really know where to network with people outside my own field.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 09:54:26 2015 No.7202660 >>7202621 I am curious, what is their undergrad curriculum?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 10:14:24 2015 No.7202689 >>7202660 A typical American model, but the profs are very shit and the grade inflation is rampant.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 10:25:42 2015 No.7202709

>>7202689
As an european, I have no idea, I'll just assume it's similiar to our curricula.

But grade inflation is problem everywhere. It's the retarded model that pays schools based on the number of students. This leads to the situation, when depts create bullshit programs for retards and generally have to keep retards around, otherwise they wouldn't survive financially. And mathematicans have it really bad since the interest in mathematics is generally low.

Big thanks to idiot politcans, who think everyone should have college degree.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 10:53:07 2015 No.7202732 >hardest major >not music composition I can do maths better than you could write a symphony.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 10:58:26 2015 No.7202741 >>7202732 See, but you probably couldn't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 10:58:34 2015 No.7202742 >>7202732 no you can't

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:14:33 2015 No.7202767 >>7202732 Aural is the hardest part of a music major, barely anyone here would even be able to do the high school equivalent.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:18:12 2015 No.7202775

>>7202732
B-but I can make hundreds of serialist compositions in my spare time using some bullshit formula.

Alternatively, I can into free jazz by sticking a trumpet up my arse and still find some retard who will find it brilliant.

That said, I am jelly bc I cannot compose for shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:19:19 2015 No.7202777 >>7202775 The hard part is making it mean something to someone.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:20:02 2015 No.7202780 >>7202777 checked

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:31:17 2015 No.7202803 To be fair, it depends on where your competencies lie. Most STEM majors would fail courses that require creative or divergent thinking, even if it was only lib arts.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:33:11 2015 No.7202807 >>7202803 LEL, no an intelligent person doesn't just understand certain things, they can think about other shit and figure stuff out. what a stupid thing to say

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:35:18 2015 No.7202811 >>7202777 Tasty.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:37:50 2015 No.7202816

>>7202803
>implying lib arts aren't dumpster for complete retards.

If you are creative, you do painting, music composition or a fucking computer animation (etc) in this day and age.

Lib arts are for pretentious hipster faggots trying to get some cool points.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 11:53:53 2015 No.7202831

>>7199639
>the same theoretical derivations you'd find in phys

Lol NO. And I triple majored in EE, math, and physics. Physics was the hardest. EE was conceptually the easiest and the only times it was hard was because engineering professors, on the whole, suck at teaching.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 12:04:16 2015 No.7202844

>>7202831
I quintuple majored in math, physics, chemistry, biology and socially I can tell you without a doubt socially was the hardest.

Engineering has an average of 40 hours classes, labs and tutorials per week and in general most universities have regulations that say you are not allowed to double major, nice try though.

If you're going to spout retarded, uninformed shit at least try to photoshop a time stamp on the degrees you claimed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 12:18:34 2015 No.7202861 >>7202803 >people are balanced fallacy most stem majors would excel on these because they're more intelligent

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 14:29:03 2015 No.7203064

>>7202621
>I wish I knew anyone from other math departments, but aside from picking random faculty and emailing them I don't really know where to network with people outside my own field.

Join the Math Alliance. It's an organization made for those who are interested or considering going to graduate school for math. You get paired up with a mentor from a different university, and get a mailing list of all participating professors, so you can engage and discuss matters. It helps with a lot of shit, from independent research to preparing for the GRE.

I joined when I was a sophomore so I could receive advice and help on conducting independent research, since all of my current professors exhausted all of their resources or weren't interested in advising me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 14:30:20 2015 No.7203067 >>7202621 >outside my own field. Shit, I just read this. If you're trying to fraternize with experts outside of your field, I'm unsure. Find a cool professor in your field who can refer you to others.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 14:43:13 2015 No.7203084

>>7202844
>If you're going to spout retarded, uninformed shit at least try to photoshop a time stamp on the degrees you claimed.

Nope. No one else in this thread has posted their degree, why should I? I did all three majors and without a doubt physics was conceptually the most difficult. If that makes you assmad, take your fist and shove it up your ass, I don't give a fuck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 14:51:48 2015 No.7203098 >>7203084 No one claimed to tripple major either, idiot. Just fuck right off and go do your physics I homework.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 15:03:22 2015 No.7203124

>>7203098
Triple majoring isn't that huge of a deal, you incompetent turd. My university allows as many majors as you like, but will only award 2 degrees. I was award a "B.S. in Electrical Engineering" and a "B.S. in Mathematics and Physics". I also came in with a ton of AP credit, so with some 18 - 20 credit hour semesters + summers, triple majoring wasn't that big of a deal.

If you don't like the fact that physics is harder than engineering, you can do what I previously said or, alternatively, you can go suck on some cocks.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 15:05:46 2015 No.7203128 >>7203124 >18 - 20 credit hour semesters Engineering alone is 40 credit hours per semester unless your university is not accredited. I know that's 4 times more than science degrees at your shitty college, but that's the standard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 15:09:27 2015 No.7203133 Engineering getting in the hard school is hardest, because it's boring. In contrary, math is beautiful and enjoyable to learn.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 18:03:54 2015 No.7203471 >>7196139 literally the exact same with biology fag. Memorize the calvin cycle sure, but you will never know what it means if youre an idiot. You just proved they are equally as difficult.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 18:06:33 2015 No.7203478 >>7196119 suggesting a company will check you GPA. lmao. Maths trump arts any day. Don't be so butthurt anon, youll make great coffee someday, and hey thats something to be proud of. Think of all the free coffee youll get! Isnt that cool??

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 18:10:25 2015 No.7203485 So is biology a junk degree ?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:46:12 2015 No.7203720 >>7196459 Math doesn't stop at arithmetic and algebra, buddy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:51:46 2015 No.7203731 >>7196089 This is because people who fail at math don't typically just drop out, instead they fail into easier majors like engineering or physics.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:52:51 2015 No.7203735

>>7203720
it doesn't stop having definite rules laid out for you there either. dont be so mad that your precious math that you sperg over is just following rules. no wonder you love it so much, you're a beta follower, in a world where engineers are the trailblazers of innovation and ingenuity, you are happy to just be following the rules. and making no money

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:54:43 2015 No.7203739

>>7203731
lel you're retarded, failing out of math into another program is dropping out. you're dropping out of the program. you dont have to leave uni to be considered dropping out of a program. you're clearly a NEET with no life experience trying to defend your shit hobby of sperging over youtube math videos. git gud m8 your life is shit

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:59:28 2015 No.7203749

>>7203739
Hey man, that's just what I assumed it meant. It's not as if this "dropping out" is a common occurrence in our department. Everyone who applies into the program is already balls deep committed and I've only ever seen one girl flunk out into applied math.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:04:18 2015 No.7203758 >>7199624 >labs >hard Enjoy your repetitive timesink as much as you want, anon. However, the rest of the world just finds that repetitive lab monkey shit to be autistic and not hard at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:13:00 2015 No.7203975 >>7196106 I did biochem for a couple of years before switching to physics and math. They are way harder. I'm not saying medicine is easy but I have to think there are a lot of doctors who simply couldn't understand QM or relativity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:18:03 2015 No.7203987 >>7199624 I've always found good mathematicians to be much better writers than good physicists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:30:16 2015 No.7204111 >no one in this thread could write a great book Lit is the obvious choice.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:56:27 2015 No.7204255 >>7199632 >>7196459 >>7203735 This is so cute.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 02:19:58 2015 No.7204284 >>7203478 nothing to say about professional programs tho :(

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 02:32:22 2015 No.7204294 physics, math, philosophy Everything else is just a subset of these subjects

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 11:59:17 2015 No.7204818 >ITT: "MY MAJOR IS THE ONLY USEFUL ONE OUT THERE AND EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS"

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:04:28 2015 No.7204821 >>7196063 in terms of undergraduate education engineering is usually harder, but mathematics gets harder as you progress on to harder mathematics (in grad school)

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:08:25 2015 No.7204827 >>7204818 If every STEM graduate did a degree in Chemical Engineering, we would still be able to do every single job required with the exception of advanced mathematics like string theory. Prove me wrong caps poster.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:19:59 2015 No.7204836 >>7204111 > implying /lit/ could write a great book I read their book. It was awful

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:41:15 2015 No.7204863 >>7204827 you spelled nuclear wrong

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:52:16 2015 No.7204884

>>7203758
yes im sure any third year student with hardly any knowledge in condensed matter could walk in the lab and do entry phd level bose-einstein esque experiments. trapping cold atoms, spintronics, quantum gas chambers, and an extension on the 2010 nobel winning experiments (graphene).

sure fuck yeah. it sure is easy without having spending on time learning grad level maths (conformal field theory; which i found the easiest part of my undergrad thesis). i swear its like first year physics we collect data from circuits. use excel with voltage vs time. haha fuck no, its shit that 99% of youse retards cant do. experimental work is 2x harder than theoretical. everyone in my course wants to do theoretical lel.

continue playing with high school physics, engineering labwork, and first year physics. pleb.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:06:14 2015 No.7204909

>>7202525
medicine and law are certainly hard due to its crazy workload and its necessities to pass the units.it has its own merits and its a league of its own. no one here cares about it. most people here care about maths, physics, and engineering on this board.

the thread we knew was going to be wholeheartedly debated between maths and physics.

so why do you even bother bringing up law/medicine? I only mentioned one of my major pure maths saying that its easier compared to applied physics. you cleary didnt comprehended a quarter of my post at all lol. looks like im going to have grade you one out of four. if you said 'major' you would've had 2/4. if you didnt bought hardest and curriculum couldve been a 4 outta 4. please improve on your grades anon!

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:14:23 2015 No.7204922

>>7204863
Nuclear and Chemical are kindred spirits, Lamarsh himself says so his introduction. Other than the senior classes and maybe ochem II etc. the curricula are very close and the design principles are very similar.

Nuclear is indeed more god tier than chemical imo though, if only because of the sheer power of nuclear reactions vs chemical.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:17:49 2015 No.7204926 File: 11 KB, 236x172, WTFdoIsee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7196830

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:43:26 2015 No.7204967 >>7196063 it requires innate ability over hard work

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 14:20:36 2015 No.7205019 >>7204967 No it doesn't

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 14:46:03 2015 No.7205055 >>7204967 No it doesn't

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 17:30:01 2015 No.7205431 >>7204967 Nope. It requires both innate ability and hard work.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 18:13:20 2015 No.7205502

>>7204294

right.

medicine is a subset of physics, math or philosophy. so is law. and psychology. history none the less. or linguistics. Man I probably couldn't keep doing this all day.

man, you must be the smrtest person on earth, we all awe in your great understanding of the world? Pls tell us more. Every 15yo's mind can be divided into two sides: black and white, amirite?

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 18:15:45 2015 No.7205509

Math is the most competitive major. You can study something like CS and be the smartest kid in your department by just working hard and having a reasonably high IQ. In any decent math program, an average high IQer with a good work ethic will simply be middling while genius IQ monsters who studied differential geometry in high school dominate the material.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 18:37:34 2015 No.7205551

>>7205509
>an average high IQer with a good work ethic will simply be middling while genius IQ monsters who studied differential geometry in high school dominate the material.
I hate how true this is. I always wish I could be intelligent enough to succeed in academia for math but I know it's a skill you're born with. I'm only good enough at math to do a dual major in engineering and physics

Anonymous Mon Apr 20 00:59:54 2015 No.7206171

I'd say,

Physics > Math > Engineering > other sciences > CS > everything else

If you're a math major, I know that you may think your major is the harder than physics because math has more complicated looking symbols in it than physics, but the reality is that doing well in undergraduate math is mostly about memorizing theorems and facts. The only difficult cognitive task is to put those theorems together into a proof. You don't even have to understand it that much. I know people who graduated with a math major who still don't understand the concept of a compact set.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 20 01:37:09 2015 No.7206218 Gender studies is the hardest major because it's impossible to finish it without either going insane or killing yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 20 16:56:07 2015 No.7207374 >>7198813 just out of curiosity, what school do you go to?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 20 17:02:26 2015 No.7207382 >>7203471 >Thelight-independent reactionsofphotosynthesisarechemical reactionsthat convertcarbon dioxideand othercompounds intoglucose How is that hard? I'm sure the Wikipedia copy/paste from my phone will be messed up btw

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 20 17:16:18 2015 No.7207404 >>7203471 Citrate cis aconitate isocitrate Alpha ketoglutarate That's all I remember

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 20 17:18:14 2015 No.7207411 >>7202803 Math requires creative and divergent thinking

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 20 17:22:40 2015 No.7207415 If I want to do graduate studies in physics should I double major in math and physics?

Anonymous Mon Apr 20 17:39:41 2015 No.7207443

>>7202535
The difficulty of medschool *is* artificial, though.

It's basically theatre, to secure the special, unique, elite status of people who are actually glorified tradesmen, most of whom could learn all of the necessary skills to perform the work they actually end up doing from a 2-year trade school plus a 2-year apprenticeship.

Medicine is all about the theatre of being attended to not just by a physician, but by a "doctor". Not just a competent person, but the very best of their field. Like you're not just getting an engineer, but a PhD in engineering. Or not just a lawyer, but a legal scholar.

Everyone's a special fucking super expert.

Except of course they aren't. Most of them are ordinary people, a little above average, and about half to two-thirds of them just aren't good at their job, but are able to keep their jobs because of the extraordinary artificial barriers to entry.

It's a farce.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 20 17:44:18 2015 No.7207454 I can't decide if I want to study physics, math, or engineering or medicine

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 03:25:35 2015 No.7208348

>>7207443
Are you retarded? You are aware that there are plenty of health trade professions (not just nurses and EMTs) that aren't MDs right?

I might agree that there needs to be a watered down GP degree, but everyone is retarded about health so they will also go to the full MDs who are just as retarded themselves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 05:27:18 2015 No.7208441 >>7207454 Biomedical engineering then?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 05:30:28 2015 No.7208443 >>7207443 This is simply wrong. Medicine isn't artificially difficult and the standards aren't for some pretense of prestige, but because the medicine prepares you deal with human lives and health and make decisions about them for fucks sake.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 05:32:44 2015 No.7208444 >>7206171 >undergraduate math is mostly about memorizing theorems and facts Where are you from?

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 05:38:14 2015 No.7208445

>>7208443
>Medicine isn't artificially difficult and the standards aren't for some pretense of prestige, but because the medicine prepares you deal with human lives and health and make decisions about them for fucks sake.

No, he is right. Every specialty outside internal medicine will use a very small fraction of what they had to learn in medical school for the rest of their career. It's a lot of outdated generalizing when doctors were much less connected with each other and had to KNOW a little bit about everything. Communications and teleportation has made this not such a factor anymore.

But all that subject matter, complete with the MCAT, and the preqreq courses that act as filters are all just because Medicine is one of the oldest and cohesive guild systems in the world.

Physician's assistants absolutely perform most of the jobs that you would probably get the average joe to say a doctor does. And they go to school for 2-3 years. Nurses are likewise given a lot of the caseload doctor's should have in principle. It's why they are frequently pissed off at their wages.

Can either of those perform neuosurgery? No, but that is a specialist trained in that specific capacity and most doctors don't know a damn how to do it either, they just know how to refer.

And it is a guild system that has secured a high standard of living and prestige by bottlenecking and controlling the flow of labor into the market.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 05:41:58 2015 No.7208448

>>7208445

I'll add before I go to sleep that I limited myself to looking at general/internal medicine.

A gynecologist, anesthesiologist, gastroenterologist, etc. are all referred to by the primary physician (who has the most reason to get such a broad knowledge base). Any issues or complications usually go back through them as well.

Patients get several MINUTES with their actual doctor
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/for-new-doctors-8-minutes-per-patient/

Everything else is, and can, be handled by support staff.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 07:00:25 2015 No.7208504 >>7208445 >>7208448 Right on all accounts to be honest.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 09:59:56 2015 No.7208641 >>7208448 I dated a doctor in her 20s. She was fairly awesome, glad I had that experience.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 10:10:22 2015 No.7208651

>>7206171
>You don't even have to understand it that much. I know people who graduated with a math major who still don't understand the concept of a compact set.

I know those people. They go into Math Education or Applied Math and for their analysis requirement they take Applied Fourier Analysis.

It's very easy to just skate by with a math major at my school, taking only the joke classes, but if you take the more advanced undergrad math classes they're as hard or harder than the advanced undergrad physics classes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 11:20:02 2015 No.7208746 >>7208445 >>7208448 >>7208504 Can also confirm. I used to study medicine but went to pure math instead, very much due to my distaste of this.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 12:41:19 2015 No.7208844

Some people just don't know how to look at numbers. I would say, personally, that American math is sort of a fascist state. You are never really told about what is going on and it just kinda "has to be like that". I remember when I was doing highschool algebra and we were doing logarithmic functions all I knew was that you used the log button on the fucking calculator for christ's sake. One thing that pushed me to comprehend how numbers worked was getting into computer science. Really opened my eyes.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 13:42:23 2015 No.7208963

>>7208844
Funny you should mention computer science.

I've taken some basic programming classes and I've been amazed at how much all the math of highschool is basically just applying algorithms.
Idk I feel like math would have been way easier if I'd learned to do some programming starting around about year 6. Probably would have enjoyed it more than the drama I had to do that year.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 13:45:04 2015 No.7208970 >calculus II at a CC >learning sequences and series >bunch of formulas with restrictions and such >need to memorize the entire thing >no motivation to study

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 14:13:59 2015 No.7209036

>>7196119
Does anyone know what this is like in the UK? If was is said here is true and I end up going for a PhD in maths, how's the whole professor system in the UK? I've heard that the American one is hell, but that being said I've also been told that lower-level maths teachers are always in demand, does that balance it at all?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 14:18:15 2015 No.7209046 >>7196242 >Dropping maths at Cambridge >Clearly doesn't know what a STEP paper is.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 14:30:07 2015 No.7209069

>>7202522
Nope. I'm not the anon you're replying to but it's the same at my university as well.

I've known very smart people to barely scrape by in our school's weed out classes. It's a goddamn nightmare and it's like that in essentially every science class until you get to upper level courses.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 14:30:09 2015 No.7209070

I know I'm going to get laughed out of here, but I'd like to make a case for Computer Science. It might not be the hardest to grasp at a fundamental level ("i press the button, the computer make the do i want it for"), but even just programming itself involves memorising arcane bullshit rivaling Biology.

The workload is ridiculous too.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 15:09:00 2015 No.7209131

>>7209070
Nnnnnnnnn

CS seems like it has a really nice culture, at least judging from the students/lecturers in my single comp sci and physics classes.

Physics prof is always acting a fool like he doesn't take it seriously at all and just wants to have a good time/play around with us.. It's kind of annoying because he never makes it through the whole damn lecture.

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 16:05:02 2015 No.7209257

History is the hardest major.

Because I had to hike my ass out to a shed in the middle of the fucking woods in the heart of Whogivesafuckistan to find out if my thesis would hold water.

Physics is so hard! I have to sit in one place and manipulate symbols all day. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.

I have go and find my fucking evidence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 16:16:49 2015 No.7209269 the fact that engineers take courses to learn how to use CAD is just sad

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 16:22:03 2015 No.7209273 >>7209269 >the fact that computer scientists take courses on how to learn C is just sad

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 16:22:25 2015 No.7209274 >>7209131 >nice culture >CS Are you kidding? It's viciously competitive and largely populated by autists who use coding as a way to express superiority they've never had and end up being nasty as shit about it

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 16:53:03 2015 No.7209339 File: 23 KB, 408x315, 1428680618994.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7209269 >the fact that people studying a profession take courses to learn how to use tools used in said profession is just sad

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 16:54:17 2015 No.7209343 >>7209339 >>7209273 >going to university for this you may as well go to a trade school.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 16:55:38 2015 No.7209344 >>7209343 >le enlightened NEET

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 17:10:09 2015 No.7209367 >>7209274 Do you live in the US? Is it more competitive and autistic than physics though, really? Seems to me many in physics jus' do it because that's what they think people of their supreme intellect do, and people in CS just like computers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 17:44:39 2015 No.7209466 File: 24 KB, 512x384, 1409628841766.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7209343 it's almost as if you know nothing about the field

Anonymous Tue Apr 21 22:10:01 2015 No.7210042
File: 32 KB, 107x133, 95.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>be humanitiesfag
>constantly encounter the outer fringes of math in a hundred different branches of philosophy, from analytics to metaphysics
>be amazed by the mystic potential of math being the language of reality itself
>be slightly in awe of STEMfags and assume they tap into this majesty through hard work, and humanitiesfags like me are missing out
>start learning math
>it's tough as fuck
>get to the point where i can just barely understand higher order college level stuff
>eagerly start talking to esteemed, visionary, world-famous mathematicians at my university
>mfw i realize they are all complete, intuitive materialists in their outlook
>mfw they don't grasp an iota of the mystical or metaphysical aspects of higher math
>mfw they don't even really understand what the concreteness of mathematical laws implies, and spend most of their time playing at meaningless quantitative number puzzles
>mfw even professional scientists are childlike retards who are genuinely content with puerile, reductionist accounts of the nature of reality
>mfw the vast majority of high level STEM people are ignorant of other branches of their own field, let alone other fields or disciplines altogether
>mfw even the luminaries of STEM are the biggest reservoir of literally autistic toy collectors in the world
>mfw trying to experience an ounce of majesty is impossible around these eternally plebeian tolstoyan foxes
>mfw the vast majority are just average dumb normalfags aside from their single hyper-focused academic specialty
>mfw they don't read books (like, at all)
>mfw phds in theoretical physics have the exact same political opinions as your dumbass uncle who works at the olive garden
>mfw it is actually staggering how dumb they are in every single respect other than knowing one specific kind of math really well
>mfw disillusioned
>mfw realizing after all that work that math isn't even the language of reality but a closed and self-referential puzzlebox for autistic fucking faggots

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 22:26:54 2015 No.7210068 >>7209257 this

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 22:29:54 2015 No.7210076 >>7210042 You sound like a fun person to talk to

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 22:42:38 2015 No.7210103 >>7196106 >designed kek go back to your pseudoscience you professional Web M.D emulator

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 21 23:08:52 2015 No.7210146 File: 13 KB, 640x480, 123.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7210042 >implying reductionism and materialism aren't obviously true >implying you're not the pleb here for searching for mystical bullshit in math

Anonymous Wed Apr 22 01:37:37 2015 No.7210416
File: 39 KB, 720x539, go back to b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>mfw STEM is literally autism incarnate

I thought it was just a joke. I didn't actually believe everyone in my classes would be raging sperglords that cannot do anything besides calculate numbers and speak in a nasally voice.

I was sincerely, sincerely wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 01:43:56 2015 No.7210431 >>7210042 I don't think you actually know anything about the philosophy of mathematics if you think there's any "mystical or metaphysical aspects" to it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 02:29:48 2015 No.7210490 File: 36 KB, 480x360, 1429673543464.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7210042 >mfw I read this

Anonymous Wed Apr 22 09:21:29 2015 No.7210796

Is this really a 260 reply thread of autists waving their dicks screaming that their degree is harder than everyone else's that I am looking at? /sci/ has to stop this retarded academic snobbery. All that matters at the end of the day is how much money you're making and maths graduates don't make enough to move out of their mum's basement half the time.

Anonymous Wed Apr 22 09:28:15 2015 No.7210805
File: 55 KB, 268x240, 1243534.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7210042
When I started reading this I though you were simply euphoric but by the end you're absolutely right; STEMfags are the most narrow minded people I've ever come across. This is why guys like Jobs did so well compared to other /g/ neckbeards because he saw beyond the code and hardware and gave his work an artistic flair backed up by killer business acumen. Most other STEMtards just shit on the arts and turn their noses at making money for money's sake believing that all that matters is complete understanding of the code or equation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 10:02:56 2015 No.7210851 >>7210042 Wow, /sci/ is right for once

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 10:07:30 2015 No.7210856 >>7196063 >BS Applied Computer Science (Games) >MS Computer Science (Games) >Content with life If I can be happy with a pleb tier degree, you idiots can figure out a way to be happy with a math degree By happy I mean not depressed

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 10:42:26 2015 No.7210896 >>7210856 You see they are all virgins who compensate by going on about how hard their degree was.

Carbon Wed Apr 22 11:12:22 2015 No.7210920

>>7196106
Learn alot of information in a fixed amount of time to memory dump much of it and repeat
Yep, artificial difficulty
When time is a prevailing factor it is usually a symptom of artificial difficulty. It occurs in engineering and physics when material is bunched into a semester, IIRC my dad said Calc math classes used to be 2 semesters only and PDEs were taught in Diff Eq classes etc.

Again, artificial difficulty

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 11:21:58 2015 No.7210937 >these fucking threads Are there even mods on this board

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 11:23:26 2015 No.7210940 >>7196063 It's not, it's philosophy, you stone.

>>	Carbon Wed Apr 22 11:25:38 2015 No.7210945 >>7197428 >Everything is logical therefore everything is logic; we study logic therefore we study everything By that argument philosophy is the most rigorous

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 11:27:40 2015 No.7210950 >>7210945 It is because it takes more thinking than just autistic number crunching.

Anonymous Wed Apr 22 11:31:24 2015 No.7210957

>>7210920
Bro, first of all I've noticed you replied to one of the very first posts ITT, do not, I repeat DO NOT read through this entire toxic thread.

>When time is a prevailing factor it is usually a symptom of artificial difficulty.
You're right about that, in engineering they talk about how it's a "professional trait". Especially the first two years they just stack 6-8 science and math classes together with "time-wasting" engineering classes like technical drawing/communication or management bullshit, while your final year is all open problems, you only have 1-2 difficult modules and otherwise have no real coursework at all, only finishing up your design and research project.

>PDEs were taught in Diff Eq classes
Didn't you do the proto PDEs in your DE class?

>Again, artificial difficulty
Yeah, but then again it's more difficult none the less. I mean the material in medicine is pretty easy like everyone says. For example instead of teaching basic diffusion equations (and I mean basic; only the convection ODE is used to model absorption in medicine) they would literally memorize solved tables than teach students how to do basic calculus. But still are we going to extend MD programmes to 10 years? Most of the professional degrees are artificially difficult in that sense. I do think we need a medical bachelor degree for GPs though. The MD is an outdated concept.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 11:39:39 2015 No.7210970 >>7196063 Why even have mathematicians since essentially computers can do all their work and faster.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 22 11:45:23 2015 No.7210980 >>7210950 What does thinking have to do with rigour?

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/sci/ - Science & Math