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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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7105880 No.7105880 [Reply] [Original]

Why haven't they programmed Curiosity to plant and water a few seeds of different species? Just to try.

Sure, there's little sunlight up there, but it's enough for some plants. It's an experiment I'd have liked to see.

>> No.7105886

>>7105880
Because it'd be hilariously pointless. Mars is bathed in lethal levels of UV radiation, is absolutely freezing fucking cold, and has an atmosphere so thin that liquid water cannot exist.

It would be equally productive (but millions of times less expensive) to attempt to sprout seeds in a blast furnace.

>> No.7105895

>>7105886
>an atmosphere so thin that liquid water cannot exist
How are the people proposing martial terraforming as a solution to all our prolems going to solve this little hitch?

>> No.7105901

>>7105886
Poor Curiosity, at least let it do some gardening to take its mind off the fact that one day it's going to break and stay on that dust ball forever.

>> No.7105908

>>7105886
>hilariously pointless
It becomes science if we take notes.

>> No.7105909

>>7105895
Have you ever actually seen how that's supposed to work? Thickening the atmosphere is essentially 100% of those plans.

>> No.7105915

>>7105909
Yes but how are they going to do it?

>> No.7105922
File: 3.67 MB, 3000x2627, Surveyor_3-Apollo_12.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7105922

>>7105901
I'm not so sure. if we ever reach a stage where we can waltz around our system with ease one of the first things we're probably going to do is pick up all the detritus we've left on other planets for museum pieces.

>> No.7105929

>>7105922
Be realistic, the dolphin's revolution is going to take over Earth much sooner.

>> No.7105950

>>7105915
The basic theory is that Mars has a whole shitload of extra CO2 locked up in the icecaps and absorbed in the soil; if you warm the planet, that'll start to release.

And because of the greenhouse effect, if you release a little, it'll warm up even more, releasing more gas, and you end up with this positive feedback loop that should, in theory, do most of the work for you.

The initial warming is the hardest bit; ideas range from huge fuck-off solar mirrors in orbit to concentrate additional sunlight to manufacturing artificial greenhouse gases.

It's all extremely theoretical, with serious uncertainty about whether some of the basic premises are actually true or not.

>> No.7105971

>>7105950
See how thin the difference between science and fucking around is? They're actually proposing to build a fucking solar death ray.

>> No.7105976

>>7105895
we smash big rocks into it.

>> No.7105982

>>7105950
So asteroids and comets smash into Mars from time to time, no? Wouldn't one of them trigger such a warming if it was possible?

>> No.7105989

>>7105982
>>7105976
>>7105950
Would this ridiculous comic-book system work?

>http://www.mangapanda.com/terra-formars/1/13

>> No.7105991

>>7105982
No. A single asteroid impact delivers very, very little energy compared to the amount of energy Mars gets in sunlight, and thus makes a negligible impact on global temperature.

>> No.7105998

>>7105989
That's actually been proposed, but with lichen instead.

The problem being that it's just too harsh on Mars for anything to survive. The pressure, cold, and dryness alone are just barely manageable, but it's the UV that does it.

>> No.7106000

>>7105989
>>7105989
>Lowering Mars' albedo with black "moss" to increase its temperature
Yeah, that's totally sensible, although I doubt that there's any real organism that could do the jo-
>cockroaches
what.

>> No.7106002

>>7106000
Roaches are just supposed to be food for the dark moss, in this scenario.

>> No.7106003

>>7105998
Would the UV produce genetic aberrhations? Or would it just kill everything?

>> No.7106004

>>7106002
Okay, but how are the roaches surviving on the not-terraformed-yet Mars?

And what do the roaches eat?

>> No.7106009

>>7106003
Kill everything. The UV's at "laboratory sterilizer" levels.

Of course, if there was an ozone layer, that could be solved, but to make ozone you need plentiful atmospheric oxygen, and to make that efficiently you need photosynthetic life, which can't survive on the surface because of the UV.

>> No.7106011

>>7106004
...dirt?
I mean, fuck roaches, they eat everything.
(They're probably supposed to eat the moss itself)

>> No.7106019

>>7106002
>the roaches are just supposed to be food for the moss

>>7106011
>the roaches eat the moss

This ecosystem seems fundamentally unsound

>> No.7106021

>>7106011
There's nothing to eat or breath for them on Mars and it's way too cold.

>> No.7106031

>>7105989
Also, it's worth noting that once you've got the planet's atmosphere thickened and warmed up and probably melted the permafrost, you still have the issue of oxygen.

The oxygen's going to take a really long time. If some of the more optimistic assumptions are correct, Mars' atmosphere could be thickened to the point you could walk on it barefoot (with oxygen gear) within a couple hundred years; but CO2 is toxic. If you wanted the atmosphere to be breathable, you'd have to replace so much of the CO2 with oxygen that even if you seeded the whole planet with plant life, it would take a thousand years or so.

If you could magically import zillions of fucktons of a buffer gas, like nitrogen, this would be easier, but where the hell are you going to find that and how are you going to get it there?

>> No.7106033

>>7106019
They eat a little moss and then when they die they're eaten from it.

IT'S THE CIRCLE OF LIIIIIIIIIIIIFE!

>>7106021
>There's nothing to eat or breath for them on Mars and it's way too cold.
From what I'm seeing this manga has humanoid 9 feet tall cockroaches and hybrids human-insects. Don't look for too much coherence.

>> No.7106035

>>7106031
>but where the hell are you going to find that and how are you going to get it there?

comets

>> No.7106038

>>7105880
>plant and water a few seeds
Seed-bearing plants (spermatophytes) are not likely hardy enough to survive; but ferns, fungi, lichens, and mosses perhaps; and bacteria certainly. The introduction of foreign species is not to be undertaken lightly in any case, because of its unfortunate history of unintended consequences.

>> No.7106041

>>7106038
yeah but how do you fuck up a wasteland?

>> No.7106045

>>7106038
Pussy. A real american would dispense new species around like confetti and then piss while twirling on himself to spread his dominance.

>> No.7106047

>>7106041
You introduce 4 gunslingers and a talking ferret.

>> No.7106064

>>7106041
>how do you fuck up a wasteland?
Step One is to categorise it as "wasteland".

>> No.7106079

>>7106041
>implying OP's pic couldn't be Arizona or Nevada or Negronia.

>> No.7106287
File: 150 KB, 717x787, magnetosphere.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7106287

>>7105915
>>7105909

By somehow creating a greenhouse effect and inducing global warming I suppose.

I'm curious how terraformers are going to deal with the fact that Mars has NO magnetosphere. Thus, any atmosphere we would manage to create would be eventually stripped away by charged particles in cosmic winds.

>> No.7106317 [DELETED] 

>>7106287
They calculated it would take 1000 years for the atmosphere to show any noticeable depletion. The real problem from no magnetosphere is deadly solar radiation.

>> No.7106326 [DELETED] 
File: 24 KB, 500x436, readImage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7106326

>>7105950
>Mars has a whole shitload of extra CO2 locked up in the icecaps and absorbed in the soil; if you warm the planet, that'll start to release.

Wait, isn't that what's happening to the Earth? HOLY SHIT WE'RE BEING TERRAFORMED!
But by who?

>> No.7106445

>>7105880
What if the rover carried a colony of ants and placed it on Mars. What would happened?

>> No.7106559

>>7106287
>eventually
That's the important word. Solar wind stripping is really, really, REALLY slow; it took billions of years for Mars to lose its atmosphere the first time around.

>> No.7106569

>>7106317
But the atmosphere itself blocks deadly radiation, no? Just at the cost of itself being stripped away?

>> No.7106579

>>7105971
Look, I keep telling people that all you need for a solar death ray is a fuckton of aluminum mylar, a system to mount it, some really good telescopes, and a calculator. It's not rocke- well actualy most of it is going to be rocket science but it's not going to be really hard rocket science.

>> No.7106634

>>7105880
Hello OP. I have been looking at this myself, we have a real need to be developing this bio-science if we are REALLY going to mars.

What I do know is that curiosity 2 (2020 launch) will have a small biolab on it with seeds for test growth.

NASA dont want to throw a load of seeds out there because they dont want to contaminate the planet with foreign species (yep, very star trek-ish).

Labs are already working on gm seeds, ie plants with closed pores so they dont lose all their water in the dry atmosphere and produce anti freeze proteins AFP's that inhibit their own water freezing and destroying cell walls, but it is slow work With little investment, its not 'sexy' science.

>> No.7106737
File: 145 KB, 640x480, Themtitle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7106737

>>7106445
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8xSo2MEPzQ

>> No.7106747

>>7105880
that is a severe violation of article IX of the Outer Space Treaty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_protection

"Article IX: ... States Parties to the Treaty shall pursue studies of outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, and conduct exploration of them so as to avoid their harmful contamination and also adverse changes in the environment of the Earth resulting from the introduction of extraterrestrial matter and, where necessary, shall adopt appropriate measures for this purpose..."

>> No.7106827

>>7106326
underrated post

>> No.7106835

short answer; we dont want to accidentally annihilate the first aliens we discover before we even notice them.

>> No.7106883

>>7106041
There might still be native life in that wasteland. All the active bacteria will make identifying fossils harder too.

>> No.7106895

>>7106569
No, you need a magnetosphere which is only generated from a rotating hot planetary core. Mars no longer has that.

>> No.7106937

>>7105895

Green house gases. Fucking loads of them

>> No.7106960

>>7105901
But...don't we all break down and die on a dustball already? Curiosity just happens to break down on another one than the ones we're on...

>> No.7107536 [DELETED] 

Fuck living on the surface of mars. What about underground? If the core is truly frozen solid there is no seismic activity. Which means we can dig as deep and greedily as we want with no risk of cave in or collapse, so long as it's structurally sound.

1. How deep would you need to dig for normal earth atmosphere?
2. How deep would you need for normal earth gravity?
3. Could you hollow out the core and recreate a hollow earth kind of scenario? and would you really stick to the walls or fall in the middle?
4. Is there a neutral gravity point at the core?
5. How do we know the core is frozen? Couldn't it just be too small to create a magnetic field or maybe it's dampened by iron in the crust? and might there be still some warmth left in the center we could channel to thaw the CO2 perma-frost?

>> No.7107551
File: 34 KB, 500x339, 1422554493908.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7107551

>very little earthlike atmosphere to grow

>plants need live bacteria in soil

>no live bacteria because too hot in day, too cold at night, and no oxygen.

>> No.7107563

>>7107536
>how deep would you need to dig for normal earth atmosphere.
Use a pressure calculator.
>how deep would you need for normal earth gravity
Look up the inverse square law and use math.

I expect that the answer to both is more than is doable.

>> No.7107577

>>7105950
But due to a lack of a magnetic field, most of it will be blown away completely again. Mars is pointless. Why do we have to live on other planets where the conditions will always be unoptimal when it is just as easy for us to construct a habitable space station in low earth orbit?

>> No.7109040

>>7105991
Hit it with Ceres

>> No.7109049

>>7106009
Give the plants sunscreen

>> No.7109053

>>7105901
It's already broken:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/03/04/curiosity-rover-on-mars-down-for-the-count-after-a-short-circuit/

There goes untold billions of dollars down the drain.

>> No.7109202

>>7107577
I know, but it certainly seems bizarre to say that it only being viable for a million years makes it "pointless."

Earth has been home to human life for only about 200,000 years, and I certainly don't think that time - or even just the last 10,000 years - has been "pointless." Sure, we've still got another billion years left in it, but just a single million isn't worthless.

>> No.7109204

>>7106031
A long ass carbon tube?

>> No.7109313

>>7109053
>untold billions of dollars
no

>> No.7109314

>>7106827
>>7106326
>underrated post
so much so, that it's gone

>> No.7109325

>>7107563
>>how deep would you need to dig for normal earth atmosphere.
there was a thread on this last week, it was 50 meters or so

>> No.7109337

>>7109325
>50 meters
50km perhaps, but certainly not 50m

>> No.7109377

>>7105989
I feel like such a faggot for reading 3 pages of that shit.

>> No.7109382
File: 172 KB, 610x607, 136993793471.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7109382

>plants only need sunlight to grow

>> No.7109384

>>7105929
I just heard that some dolphins now use telephones

>> No.7110261

>>7106287
>By somehow creating a greenhouse effect and inducing global warming I suppose.
well, at least we're good at that

>> No.7110267

>>7106287
Some models predict a sufficiently thick atmosphere would get blown away over the course of millions of years

>> No.7110343

>next mars rover is a robotic gardener shipped with a greenhouse

>> No.7110404

>>7109049
In other words, either genetically modify plants to make natural sunscreen or give it to them some other way.This might be the best option and it might actually be doable.

>> No.7110413

>>7106835
At this point we don't care about whatever aliens mars might have. Finding traces of them is good enough.

>> No.7110531

>>7109040
and waste a perfectly good ceres?

>> No.7110551

>>7106737
Leonard Nimoy was in this movie. Good stuff.