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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7105710 No.7105710 [Reply] [Original]

Do you think people like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, Richard Dawkins, etc. are good for the scientific community? I've heard many say they're great for promoting science and trying to spur interest in it, but I've also heard just as many say they're overbearing and their campaigning is actually turning people away from scientific study beyond the minimum in high school and college.

>> No.7105716

>>7105710
There's gonna be some positive and negative effects here. I think it's a net positive though so I'm for it.

>> No.7105722

>>7105710
Overbearing and turning people away from scientific study? Is that anecdotal or is there a fairly concrete source for this?

>> No.7105730

>>7105722
Kind of anecdotal - a lot of people got on Nye's case for doing the creationist debate and adding another pro-evolution book to the already towering pile.

>> No.7105734

The main problem I've found is that they've created, directly or indirectly, many self-proclaimed quantum physicists that think that just because they know about Schroedinger's Cat they know all about quantum mechanics and it's workings.
I don't really mind it too much, hell it's better loads of people being scientifically brain dead, but come on. Just because you're subscribed to /r/science and have memorised the fundamental particles doesn't make you a fucking DIY physicist.

>> No.7105736

Science was fine before they existed, and science will be fine while and after they existed. Whatever the effect they have it's negligeable in the grand scheme of things.

>> No.7106867

>>7105710
>Do you think people like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, Richard Dawkins, etc. are good for the scientific community?

Well, as far as directing a planetarium, and teaching kids science on PBS, sure... good.

As far as teaching people evolution... not so much.

AronRa is better at that.

>> No.7106923

>>7106867
Seriously though... Nye and Degrasse should totally talk to AronRa about their evolutionary debates.

Would be breathtaking in execution.

>> No.7106961

>>7105710
Popular and controversial science has become very cult like and people like this have played a part in that.

All they really do is tell people what they want to hear. Could you imagine a scientists saying something that goes against the scientific status quo becoming so rich and popular?

Plus now every man and his dog has an opinion on everything science related and its annoying and unproductive as fuck.

>> No.7106971

>>7105710
>the scientific community
wat

>> No.7107002

>>7105710
I hate shit like that, go be a scientist and shut up. The new Cosmos is terrible, Tyson's only personality trait is that he is smug as fuck. I like Sagan but even he was getting on my nerves with that overrated Cosmos.

>> No.7107005

>>7106961
Exactly, they only repeat the most accepted points of view on everything. And I hate religion but their jabs at it are as predictable and boring as religions jabs at science.

>> No.7107041

>>7106961
>>7107005
This.

>> No.7107046

Having good intentions (as I'm sure they probably do) and actually helping don't necessarily coincide.

Also, honestly, the way they talk about the world sounds not dissimilar to that of priests or religious cunts.

To paraphrase black science man: "well uh science tells us that so and so does this because whatever"

>> No.7107047

>>7105710
Pop-science and pages like I fucking love science should be ereased from existance

>> No.7107048

Quick Poll:
What got you into science?

>> No.7107052

>>7107048
Dexter's laboratory

>> No.7107056

>>7107048
Brainiac blowing stuff up

>> No.7107058

>>7107052
Me too.

>> No.7107059

>>7107048
SF books and movies, the need to understand life but the thing that gave the final push to study physics was when I started reading esoteric/hermetic books that's when I fell in love with the need to experiment to prove a theory

>> No.7107060
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7107060

>>7105734
>The main problem I've found is that they've created, directly or indirectly, many self-proclaimed quantum physicists that think that just because they know about Schroedinger's Cat they know all about quantum mechanics and it's workings.

This reminded me of some really obnoxious dude I've got in my friends list on facebook. He's just a pothead who didn't even get into any university, yet he thinks he's some kind of genius.

>> No.7107073

>>7107048
Walking with Dinosaurs

>> No.7107077

>>7107052

>> No.7107079

>>7105710

I have no problems with Neil deGrasse Tyson. He's not a giant dick about science than Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins and I wish Nye and Dawkins didn't squander potential by fucking around with religion with religious debates. They could of been so much more.

>>7107048

A gut instinct.

>> No.7107081

>>7105734
>The main problem I've found is that they've created, directly or indirectly, many self-proclaimed quantum physicists that think that just because they know about Schroedinger's Cat they know all about quantum mechanics and it's workings.
Implying this is any different to any other discipline.

Can you imagine all the people who study politics or economics or psych and their having to field misconceptions by people not versed in their stuff?

>> No.7107088

>>7107046
>Having good intentions (as I'm sure they probably do)
Weasel talk since it could mean good intentions for themselves, or others.

On topic: I just think they are greedy idiots who found a way to use their layman-like knowledge of science to earn money and popularity. Sort of like VSauce.
Liberty/Capitalism in a nutshell. Nothing wrong with it, and our opinions matter nil, which is why I'm only spending 2 minutes typing this.
Thank you.

>> No.7107096

>>7107081
>Politics
>Economics
>Comparing it to stuff like physics and math

KEK

>> No.7107100

>>7105710
>too many phd students and postdocs in STEM
Actually spurring interest is a horrible idea right now.

>> No.7107101

>>7107079
>They could of been so much more.
>could of

Americlap education 5/5 breddy gud

>> No.7107112

>>7107005

>They only repeat things science is sure about.

Those assholes. Seriously, what is the alternative? Say whatever comes to mind? That's the idea that reality is a matter of opinion, and you can have your reality and I can have mine. But science doesn't work like that. Science swears alligence to a singular reality, which exists independantly of anyone's opinion. Someone can believe eating a big spoon of arsenic won't hurt them. They can believe it, but reality won't care.

Let's stick to things we know, and when we want to talk about things we don't know, make a big point of saying we aren't sure about it yet, and why, and how we plan to become sure or discover we're wrong.

>> No.7107113

>>7107101

I mean, we do have some of the best schools in the world. :^)

>> No.7107114

>>7107112
Hahahaha

>> No.7107115

>>7105710

i think it's the parents' job to indoctrinate their kids into whatever the fuck they see fit, be that cocksucking engineering or child abusing catholicism.

whatever these clowns do and say should not be vital in forming anyone's opinion.

>> No.7107116

>>7107113

the upper echelons of which are filled with rich idiots and pakis.

>> No.7107176

>>7107048
Sci-Fi books, Isaac Asimov books on the history of science and all his other books too. I always loved science anyway, my dad has taught me a lot of science.

>> No.7107186

>>7107048
Working as a student assistant

>> No.7107297

>>7107052
win!
electrical engineer fag here, it was dexter

>> No.7107301

>>7107297
I hope you had your own laboratory as a kid

>> No.7107303

>>7107186
So the only one who actually did science to get into science.

I think you guys are just getting upset about a fandom like every board seems to once it gets popular.

>> No.7107310

>>7107096
>being this obnoxious
>only having this much to input

>> No.7107363

>>7107048
When I was a kid I read a lot of anatomy books in my spare time, because that shit is way more fascinating as a child.

>Became an edgy shitter in American public school, forget about it because fuck the system

In college I tried chemistry, physics and Chem Eng before realizing I actually enjoyed chem.

>> No.7107374

>>7106867
>>7106923
Their evolutionary debates have never been about proving the opposition wrong, but about reaching out to kids before they're brainwashed by creationists and other like-minded people.

>> No.7107379

>>7107048
living in rural pa, wanted to honor my grandmother(she had a masters in math, in the 1940s) and a feeble attempt to get my father's respect...didn't work. Oh well I still love biology and chemistry.

>> No.7107401

>>7106961
Reminds me of the Ken ham young earth creationism "Debate". It was the equivalent of nye mentally sparring with a small child over whether or not object permanence was a thing or not. Nothing was accomplished, maybe negative accomplishment was made as it gave free publicity to the YEC movement as well as ham's denial museum, also I remember the campus fundies crooning about the legitimacy it gave them by framing the situation as a "debate".

No shit the earth isn't 6000 years old, and no shit organisms' net genetic Code changes over time, this is not controversial unless you seek out people who say it is. The reason this debate exists is to boost the ego of nye and shitty teenagers with the need to condescend to others about science when they have next to no actual scientific expertise Themselves.

If you really wanted to help the """"science"""" cause, you would spend time on the difficult (and meaningful) debates, e.g. genetically modified food, real solutions to anthropogenic climate change, and defending research budgets. Of course, Nye himself is apparently scared of le Frankentomato monster, so much for science defener there.

>> No.7107415

>>7105710
>but I've also heard just as many say they're overbearing and their campaigning is actually turning people away from scientific study beyond the minimum in high school and college.
Wow, people are really this stupid?

I guess there's no helping idiocy.

>> No.7107419

>>7107048
I saw a really complicated genetic study posted and I couldn't understand it from /pol. I went to the library and checked out some books on science. My first two books was out of Africa theory and Voodoo science. The first lesson I learn in science was that people out there will lie for money to the illiterate scientific population.

>> No.7107425

>>7105730
I thought the creationist debate was a mistake just because there was no need to even acknowledge that crazy fuck Ken Hamm, it makes it appear as though there is a serious debate between creationism and evolution

>> No.7107429

>>7107048
Watching "The Universe" on the history channel. Also I already enjoyed biology because I liked animals and the outdoors

>> No.7107446

Only negative I can think of is you come across a lot more people who think they're informed about "science" and tout these guys' opinions as authoritative. Everyone thinks they're smarter.

But at the end of the day this will still encourage more people to pursue science in earnest.

>> No.7107538

>>7107425
There really isn't much point to arguing about science and religion. There are a lot of things out there that their construction is so perfect or some small property that allows life, I can understand why someone might look at that and think that its more than just randomness. If you are able to keep things in perspective religion has never won in terms of suppressing science, given enough time its always been resolved.
I have at times been the type to argue things at the drop of a hat. I've consciously tried to be more kind and accepting to people and differing opinions. The whole 'judge a man by how he treats people that do him no good' thing. Sometimes a kind hand will do more to change an opinion than anything verbal.

>> No.7107542

>>7107081
He never implied it was different. Whether it is different or not, I don't know, but he didn't imply it.

>> No.7107640

>>7105710
I feel like it's just anthropomorphizing the abstract. It's just going to turn science into a religion.

>>7107048

Figuring out why I couldn't get straight lines with my milling machine when I was 13.

That's when I learned the equation for thermal expansion and realized that books are not for gaylords, and you don't have to only smoke weed.

>> No.7107827

>>7107374
>Their evolutionary debates have never been about proving the opposition wrong

No offense... but shouldn't they be?

>> No.7107846

tyson is an unbearable smug faggot

>> No.7107865

>>7105710
If someone has "turned away" from scientific education because of a few celebrities they don't like, I doubt they'd be a major loss to the world anyway.
Having more people do STEM subjects is definitely a good thing, but that doesn't mean everyone has to.
Someone needs to work on the checkouts, you know.

>> No.7107866

>>7107116
ouch

>> No.7107869

>>7107088
Everyone has good intentions for themselves lol I didn't think I needed to specify that I thought they really wanted to inform people.

>> No.7107874

>>7107048
To be honest, I found it fucking easy. Remembering some basic facts, rules and formulae seemed so much easier than "analysing" texts, trying to "understand what the author meant" and all that shit in where you just waffle endlessly to no end.
So that leaves what, music and art?
Even children know you don't rely on those for your livelihood. I had no choice but science, and later engineering.

>> No.7107885

Reading my uncles old textbooks. I remember I was like in year 4 (3rd grade for you Murrikans) I found his old GCE Chemistry textbook and I enjoyed reading through it.

>> No.7107935

>>7107048
The Big Bang Theory. The show made me want to become the genius that is Sheldon Cooper.

>> No.7108281

>>7107048
Watching Battlebots with my dad when I was a kid

>> No.7108290

>>7107048
2nd grade when we first started learning about the planets and stars.

I remember for a short while wanting to be an astronomer since I had no idea what physics or astrophysics was at the time.

I didn't know I wanted to actually go into STEM until 2 1/2 years ago, when I thought back to when I was a kid.

Learning about energies, atoms, space, doing experiments, how much I loved it all.

So I took physics 1 my senior year in high school, the teacher and I got really close, and it cemented in me my already determined choice to go into physics.

Astrophysics, specifically.

>> No.7108302

>>7107048
Documentaries on Nova, and Hawking's Brief(er) History of Time

>> No.7108316

Yes, they are good.

Most people without science backgrounds (that's 99% of people) are delicately teetering between rational skepticism and going over the deep end to the latest pseudoscientific fad (alkaline water, fluoride, chem trails, ancient medicinal knowledge, "natural" x, y and z). Often, all it takes for someone to begin subscribing to pseudoscience is for them to have a reason to want to believe that something is true and someone else to validate it for them (you can find communities of people on the internet that believe anything). By advocating rational thinking, skepticism and the scientific method to the masses, science celebrities can make the difference between someone indulging in a tempting falsehood and resisting it.

>> No.7108329

>>7108302
Yep. Watched a ton of stuff on PBS, etc. when I was young.

>> No.7108340

>>7107048
An interest in nature and the natural world? When I was 7 we got sky tv installed and I used to watch Animal Planet and Discovery etc all day but I didn't really get into physics (what I'm studying now) until I was ~13-14 but even then I was a complete pleb. I "hated" maths and didn't discover that I was good at it until I was ~16-17. I guess you could say that at this point everything started falling into place, I learned a tonne of maths in the space of a year or two and got a place on a Physics MSci course, then I changed to the Theoretical Physics in the second year because of a giant maths hardon.

>> No.7108342

Science communicators need to talk about science.

I don't want to hear someone preach a triumphalist version of a very particular philosophy rooted on scientific method and empirical observation. That's called philosophy.

But I would like to hear more about space and stars.

>> No.7108347

>>7107935
Say what you will but I actually like that show.

>> No.7108672

>>7108347
You're a tremendous faggot

>> No.7108845

>>7105710
Net positive effect and if anything I think more researchers need to take some goddamned initiative and start getting more involved in public advocacy and outreach.

Too many people in STEM have a shitty attitude about anything involving the general public. Sometimes it's elitism, sometimes it's anxiety, but the end result is the same.

>> No.7108905

>>7107048
>>7107052
Also, I took a physics class in highschool that was really good. I wasn't all that interested before going in and just took art classes and writing classes before as my electives. After that I took all of the science classes I could take. Genetics, AP Chemistry, more physics, etc and started reading science stuff online.

>> No.7108923

>>7107116
>pakis
you sound like a winner

>> No.7109042

Yes. Not only do they popularize science but they are just fun to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW7607YiBso

>> No.7109063

>>7107079
>Could have been so much more
>The Selfish Gene

>> No.7109066

Foucault V. Chomsky

>> No.7109112

i heard black science man was spreading dark energy in the science community, by pulling facts aut of his black hole, if you pardon my french

>> No.7109116

Dawkins is good. I doubt Nye or Tyson are, though, but I've never watched or read them properly.

>> No.7109559
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7109559

>>7109116
You! Yes you!

Stop what you're doing, go online, pirate the entire Bill Nye the Science Guy series and start taking back your stolen childhood!

>> No.7109569

>>7105710

I think that Bill Nye genuinely has desires in promoting science and generating interest in the field among high school and college students.

However, I think that Neil deGrasse Tyson is more interested in promoting himself and creating this niche "celebrity" role for himself (setting the record for the number of times to appear on the Colbert Report, the GQ photo shoot with Seth MacFarlane for the Cosmos, the multiple Reddit AMAs) than he is promoting the scientific community and getting more students interested in pursuing education/training, if not necessarily a career, in science.

>> No.7109604

>>7109569
Not to mention his public speech tours for $100+ a seat.

>> No.7109742

We've always had science celebrities through the form of public communication. Faraday lectures, Newton was a celebrity etc etc.

They're not a bad thing, "enlightened" people who idolise the celebrities without doing any actual science are.

>> No.7109853

>>7107060
The immense stupidity leaking out of this picture is enough to destroy the fabric of spacetime

>> No.7109868

>>7109604

Wow. Fuck him that is not cool.

I thought he'd be above that, as a scientist.

>> No.7109884

>>7109604
>>7109868
> charging money for doing work that people want
yeah
fuck that guy

>> No.7109898

>>7109884

I don't blame him but I respect him much less anyway. Also, you're a faggot.

>> No.7109905

>>7109898
What? for charging for talks?
They're expensive for the speaker.
And $100 is pretty cheap for a seat at something like that.

>> No.7109941

>>7107827

No, because even though the opposition is wrong, they are too deluded to be worth trying to convince them otherwise.

We can still get to kids before they are brainwashed by zealotry and dogma, though.

>> No.7109951

>>7107446

Yea, these guys always say a lot of things that are outside their area. It's ridiculous that people quote Tyson about the existence of extra terrestrial life. His opinion on that subject is no more valid than anyone else's. Same with things like GMOs.

That's my main beef with "science celebrities". They get to apparently say whatever they want on anything, and people will put the quote on one of their pictures and say "hey look, this guy who did science videos for children said this thing!" I like Bill Nye and everything, but he doesn't know everything about everything. Neither does Tyson, who is mostly famous because he's an atheist anyway.

>> No.7110159

>>7107640
You were smoking weed prior to the age of 13? Wtf

>> No.7110512

>>7105710
I think they have made great contributions by making science more undestrandable for mainstream public.
People who dislike them are just mad that normies invade their secret club

>> No.7110563

>>7110512
Exactly this.
It's pretty obvious if you, y'know, actually talk to some people. They're well loved among normies, and help make science seem important, interesting and relevant to them.

Presumably, this affects the kinds of careers they'd like their children to have and the kind of intellectual stimulation they're willing to throw at them.
Less "put down the legos and go out in the yard and play?" and more "would you like a lego robot building kit for your birthday this year?"

The only people I've heard whine about it were either concerned with mistakes/misinformation (which, certainly, is a travesty and should be avoided) or were just mean-spirited sardonic geek types.

>> No.7110612

They're good for getting kids interested in science before right-wingers try to convince them otherwise.

>> No.7110776

>>7105710
personally, I couldn't stand neil's cosmos. It was so fucking gimmicky and LOOK AT SPECIAL EFFECTS that it got to the point you didn't know what was CG and what wasn't which ultimately killed it for me.

His presentation is pretentious as fuck too.

As far as the guy himself, I like him.

>> No.7111006

>>7107060
i read a wikipedia article on 5-ht2 receptors...

...now i like deanna troy from star trek

>> No.7111011

>>7110776
yea i blame the failure of the new cosmos on seth mcfarlane.

through the wormhole was great for the first three seasons.
kinda got weak after that