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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7079079 No.7079079 [Reply] [Original]

What kind of math can I expect in astrophysics? It's what I want to get into. Ever since I was a kid I loved space, science in general but especially aspects of space and cool facts. Then I discovered a love of math from a really good teacher, and a love of physics too from the same one.

Algebra based physics was piss easy, probably because the teacher was so fucking good. Haven't learned calc yet but am going to, and I've started doing calc based physics a bit and its tougher but still pretty easy.

Should I expect more geometry in astrophysics stuff down the road, particularly research? I never was good at it, stuff like geometric proofs, but then again that was when I was a little shit that didn't pay attention.

>> No.7079131

what kind of math goes with having a job at starbucks?

>> No.7079139

>>7079131
1+1

>> No.7079261

>>7079079
differential geometry

>> No.7079279

>>7079261
what the fuckis that and how hard

>> No.7079287

Call me stupid, but I feel like we're hardly learning anything new in calc 1 at uni. The only real new thing is that everything needs to be proven

>> No.7079319

>>7079279
god youre fucking stupid
"will there be geometry in astrophysics"
yes you're just going to draw similar triangles and they'll hand you your PhD
You have to learn general relativity which requires you to learn differential geometry, particularly tensor calculus and riemannian geometry. You will also have to learn calculus, linear algebra, differential equations, the calculus of variations, you might learn abstract algebra and analysis depending on what you want to do. If you want to get into the theoretical you will have to learn topics in lie groups and lie algebras if you ever want to study any real quantum field theory in the context of astrophysics or black hole physics.
Basically, you know nothing.

>> No.7079336

>>7079319
how long does it take to get a phd

>> No.7079341

>>7079287
stupid.

>> No.7079347

>>7079279
This.
Also, it's not until you get into doing proofs (after calc 1-3) that you'll actually be doing math.

My advice? If you're interested, then learn some of this on your own, maybe take some classes in college. But unless you want to be teaching, don't go down this road. The only thing you can do in astrophysics is research, and pretty much the only way you can do research is through grants you get from schools, where you have to teach.

>> No.7079349

>>7079347
Whoops, wrong one. Meant >>7079319

>> No.7079351

>>7079336
About 4 years to get Bachelor's, then somewhere between 3-5 to get Ph.D, and that's if you get accepted.

>> No.7079355

>>7079336
From which point? 4 years bachelor 2~3 years masters depending on what you're doing. Then a PhD can take an eternity after that depending on what you're doing. it could take an extra 4,5,6+ years depending on the situation and how retarded you or you adviser is

>> No.7079365

>>7079355
Say. Don't bachelors normally take 3 years and masters 2? Or are you considering the fact that people fail some classes and take an extra year?

>> No.7079368
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7079368

>>7079079
>Haven't learned calc yet
prepare yourself for trial by fire

>> No.7079376

>>7079368
if im 19 and dont know calc yet, or at least not all of it, am i fucked?

i was in college partially for a semester but had to leave for a health/legal reason, starting back up this fall

I was there long enough to get into basic differentiation and some integration, and I remember most of it

plusi got all my books

and yes I would love to be a professor, I love teaching

>> No.7079382

>>7079376
Dude you seriously don't know anything lol.
Integration and differentiation is what kids in 10th grade learn. You are learning fucking kids stuff. You aren't even remotely close to doing real mathematics.

>> No.7079384

>>7079355
My understanding (through my SO who is doing it) is that you are awarded an honorary masters with the PhD, so you would typically go from Bachelor's to PhD

>> No.7079387

>>7079382
Are you 12?

>> No.7079388

>>7079384
Depends on the institution. There are some places that do it like that, and others that give actual masters.

>> No.7079390

>>7079382
>10th grade

u wot m8

>> No.7079392

>>7079365
An extra year? No, 4 years is what's considered normal. A BS is typically about 124 credits, so unless you have some credits before starting or are taking more than 20 credits a semester...

>> No.7079393

>>7079387
are you rustled?

>> No.7079394

>>7079079
>What kind of math can I expect in astrophysics

Bare minimum:

Trigonometry
Calculus
Matrix Algebra
Vector Calculus
Ordinary Differential Equations
Differential Geometry of Curves and Surfaces
Complex Variables
Numerical Analysis/Methods
Proofs
Non-Euclidean Geometry (perspective, hyperbolic, elliptic, etc)
Statistics
Linear Algebra
Topology
Real Analysis
Abstract Algebra
Manifolds, Tensors, and Differential Forms
Calculus of Variations
Dynamical Systems Theory
Fourier Analysis
Complex Analysis
Special Functions
Measure Theory
Probability Theory
Differential Geometry/Topology
Functional Analysis
Partial Differential Equations
Lie Algebra and Groups
Riemann Geometry

>> No.7079395

>>7079390
>land of the free, home of the manchild

>> No.7079396

>>7079387
Well he isn't wrong...that's not even close to real mathematics.

>> No.7079398

>>7079394
so do astrophysicists just have all this shit memorized or do they still look stuff up

>> No.7079399

>>7079395
my HS didn't offer it until junior year and even then I didn't qualify since lol middle school didnt into math

>> No.7079402

>>7079394
Jesus christ finally someone else who isn't sucking the cock of american education. You have been coaxed into a snafu OP. This is the kind of mathematics you are going to have to learn. Astrophysics isn't just the study of Neil deGrass Fuckhat's ballsack. You have to do REAL FUCKING HARD ASS WORK. You aren't going to learn basic calculus and then memorize facts up until grad school like this is fucking BIOLOGY or something.

>> No.7079405

>>7079398
They know the VAST majority of this stuff like the back of their hand. These subjects aren't something you look up the formulas for and then just plug in numbers into your TI 84. The mathematics of the real world will fuck you up.

>> No.7079407

>>7079398
it becomes trivial.
do you look up how to multiply two numbers?

>> No.7079409

>>7079407
of course not

but I mean when im just starting out am I expected to have everything fucking memorized and able to do it without reference

>> No.7079414

>>7079392
>>7079365

Bachelors in America are 4 years (5 if you do multiple majors/degrees and/or study abroad) and 3 years in the UK

>> No.7079415

>>7079409
On tests.
Yes.
In the real world.
No.

>> No.7079422

>>7079409
As far as formula-memorizing goes, there are a lot of classes. You build up your knowledge by using the same shit over and over again, until you don't need to think about it anymore.
At the higher levels, it's not just working with formulas anymore. The reason you take half of that stuff is to understand how math works, because you can't just plug and chug.
Basically, for the classes themselves, you'll need certain stuff memorized, but a lot of the math is actually just teaching you how to understand math. So you're going less memorization and more for intuitive understanding of what you're doing.

>> No.7079427

>>7079414
Ah, okay, I didn't know it was 3 years in the UK. My apologies.

>> No.7079432

>>7079376
No, you're not. But calculus is considered (and just barely, mind you) intro level math, and basic differentiation and integration are very intro level calc.
If you're 19 and weren't interested enough to have already learned calc, you're probably not going to be interested enough in real math to continue. That's not to say you can't try, but you don't seem to have the motivation.

>> No.7079438

>>7079432
It's not that I wasn't interested man, I never had the means.

My middle school was shit and didn't offer anything advanced at all. They taught kids in 7-8th grade basic fucking fraction. It was a shitty inner city school that I had to go to because my parents fell on hard times. I wasn't able to really learn much of anything, and I had no idea what my future interests were besides the fact that I like cool science shit.

Then comes high school, much much better school. One of the top ones in the state despite being another inner city place full of annoying, ghetto people. They offers tons of advanced shit, and I was part of the IB program like everyone else. Because of the middle school fiasco, I was stuck into the rudimentary Algebra 1 - Geometry - Alg2/Trig - PreCalc course road. I didn't really discover a "love" of math until late Junior year, and all of Senior year, when I finally kicked myself in the fucking ass and got to work. 9th/10th grade I started suffering advanced OCD symptoms that distracted be so fucking much, until finally I got help.

Then comes college, show up, having shit tons of fun, loving physics/calc even then struggling a bit because new to calc. Meeting professor after class 3 days a week to chat up/get help. Really really liking it despite challenge, but it added to the niceness.

Grades start to suffer because get involved in party life/greek life because so much freedom I just go retarded and distract myself. Recently got shit tons of confidence and banging 10/10 qts sorority girls instead of actually studying.

End up fucking up, leaving for a health/legal issue.

And here I am, 19, teaching kids in an after school program until I start back up this fall.

I have motivation. I KNOW I do.

>> No.7079439

>>7079079
Read this
http://4chan-science.wikia.com/wiki/Math_Textbook_Recommendations
then this
http://4chan-science.wikia.com/wiki/Physics_Textbook_Recommendations
and this
http://4chan-science.wikia.com/wiki/Astronomy_Textbook_Recommendations

Also wouldn't hurt to learn a little of this for data monkeying:
http://4chan-science.wikia.com/wiki/Computer_Science_and_Engineering

>> No.7079442

>>7079355
>>7079384
It really depends on your field. In some cases most get a Masters before PhD (quite common in engineering for example), where in others a Masters is basically just remedial if you weren't able to do research as an undergrad (like in Mathematics or Physics). Most universities do not give Masters while in your PhD program but some do.

Basically in most areas if you want to do academic work there's no point in a Masters unless you need to spruce up your grad school app or are changing fields, and if you're working in industry or planning on it a Masters is a great choice as many people end up being able to get a good job from that alone, especially if they do good research

>> No.7079448

>>7079438
this sounds like some inspirational movie shit about an underachieving boy genius that grows up to become a leader in his field

either op is making all this shit up or hes gonna become the next kepler

>> No.7079454

>>7079438
The means? A lot of us used wikipedia and math websites in the earlier years. That's the other thing - you can't depend whatsoever on having teachers that teach. The majority of your learning will be reading the textbook and looking up everything you don't understand. Some teachers are brilliant, just shit at explaining. You have to get used to reading textbooks for your learning.

Struggling with calc does not bode well. Even being new to it, if you're struggling, you're in for a bad time. Subjects move really quickly; everything is new to you.

Having a party life...Not sure about anyone else, but having a social life and studying STEM doesn't really work for me. I have my SO and work; he spends most of his time reading textbooks and doing homework, and my options are to let my grades slip because no time with work, or not get any sleep to do hw. Fitting a social life in is hard.

If you have the motivation, teach yourself calculus. Get ahead of your classes, learn some physics. If you've gotten through all of calc and differential equations and you're still willing to go through >>7079394, then go for it.

>> No.7079460

>>7079438
I'm not just saying shit to change your mind; I like it when people succeed. It's just that if you're not ready for the wonderful world of STEM, you'll end up like a lot of the college dropouts in their early 20's who come through /sci/, shocked that an interest in science and math wasn't enough to get them through. This is some seriously tough shit, and calculus isn't even the beginning of your problems.

>> No.7079462

>>7079454
Maybe struggling is a bad word. I just have little experience.

In my calc 1 class, as things were being introduced, I found it easy as shit.

Then we get to my physics class, and my professor throws up an integration or some such shit, and I have no idea what the fuck I'm looking at and calls on my to answer, and I'm just there, face red, and I have to tell him, "I have no idea how to do integration yet, Dr. Petridis." It hurt so fucking much.

I'm probably overreacting now that I think about it. I mistook having no idea what I was looking at for struggling.

When I looked at integration 101 in my textbook, I began to understand it as a differential inverse.

Then the next day he threw up a triple integral problem or something and I felt like crying.

I was so overwhelmed. In a way this feels like a "blessing" that I'm out of college atm, so I can prepare myself for when I get back.

>> No.7079471

>>7079460
I understand, anon. Believe me, I know this shit is tough.

I didn't decide to do this just because of Neil "smoke deGrasse" Tyson. Sure I find him and his show and other such things cool, but I decided to do this well before I even knew about him, back in Junior year high school. I started thinking about what I loved as a kid and I remembered loving learning about space and reading about atoms and energies. And that I would fly through math in elementary school and always loved science class.

I have no doubt in my mind this is what I want to do, despite other interests in fields like psychology and sociology, criminology and stuff like that.

But I want to study the universe, I want to look at it in detail, learn the explanation for natural phenomena and discover new things, teach them and invent. The cosmos is beautiful and I want to become its tailor. Measuring it, cutting out pieces to examine for bigger experiments. Etc.

I just started this thread out of curiosity of the primary kind of math required. Believe me, I'm not ignorant, I know its not just gonna be all basic calc.

>> No.7079473

>>7079462
>triple integral problem
those are barely solvable with quantum computers.....

>> No.7079475

>>7079473
idk, I just remember multiple integral symbols

>> No.7079477

>>7079462
I know the feeling of being put on the spot like that, and yeah, I feel for you.
Read that calculus textbook, read through calculus until you can understand it. Then move to the next topic, probably Differential Equations. Come back and ask /sci/ for recommendations if you need to. But you need to be sure you can handle it before you spend tons of money on courses and have to switch majors.

>>7079471
Some people do come through here thinking that being good at calc means astrophysics PhD

>>7079475
That's a joke on /sci/, triple integrals being tough shit. They're not.

>> No.7079490

>>7079477
Sometimes when I look this shit up on Wikipedia and see those 3D planes graphs of curvature and what not, I figuratively shit my pants. ;_;

>> No.7079498

>>7079490
You're not alone, a lot of the wikipedia stuff assumes you really know what you're talking about. Textbooks are the way to go, for sure.

>> No.7079537

Compared to that, my cs degree seems easy.
Calculus (one semester)
Discrete math
Linear algebra
Probability
Logic
Computational theory (or whatever it's called)
And I think that's already it as far as mandatory math classes go. I could always take more but it's voluntary. But of course, all the other classes include math in some way too. I think this will bother you about physics, op. Even the "pure" physics classes will be full of math

>> No.7079572

>>7079537
Not doing cs, but as far as I know classes on algorithmic theory, optimization or theoretical cs tend to be rather math heavy as well. In cs, you get to skip most of the analytical stuff though, which tends to be among the hardest.

>> No.7081387

>>7079471
>Sure I find him and his show and other such things cool

You're going to fail at everything in life.

>> No.7081391

>>7079471
>learn the explanation for natural phenomena

There are none.