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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7058919 No.7058919 [Reply] [Original]

A new model of the universe with finite size with no beginning and no end. What does /sci/ think of this?

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

>> No.7058925

>universe with finite size with no beginning and no end.

Sounds contradictory

>> No.7058935

>>7058925
And a universe of infinite size with a definite beginning and end, this doesn't sound contradictory?

Particle-wave duality?

Time moving slower at relativistic speeds?

None of bleeding edge physics seems the slightest bit counter-intuitive to you?

>> No.7059095

bump

>> No.7059102

>>7058935

Infinite as in, it keeps expanding forever. Is this a hard concept for you to understand? Harder than "no end and no beginning, but it has a limit!"?

>> No.7059111

>>7059102
I seriously don't see what's contradictory about that. Time is an arbitrary conception. Space is a physical reality.

>> No.7059115

I get all of my cutting edge theoretical physics from Egyptian researchers. Kind of surprised it got published in physics letters. Overall I suspect that it is just something cute and untestable.

>> No.7059129

>>7058935
>And a universe of infinite size with a definite beginning and end, this doesn't sound contradictory?

>definite beginning and end
>and end

what

>> No.7059163

>>7058919
I think I need to know more physics to understand this :(

>> No.7059224

>>7059129
Heat death of the universe my nigga

>> No.7059425

>>7058919
This was like the most exciting thing to happen in physics yet this year and yet this thread languishes in the middle of the catalog while arguments with spergs about evo psych and nutrition stay at the top

Proof that /sci/ doesn't give a shit about actual science

>> No.7059434

>>7058919
Interesting. Have a link to the papers alluded to?

>> No.7059446

>>7059111
>Time is an arbitrary conception. Space is a physical reality.
Put the bong down and go get a real job.

>> No.7059452

>>7059446
He's not wrong. There's not really a such thing as "time" as we think of it. There is only the current state of things, which is changing. We use time to track the speed of these changes the same way we use length measures to track distances. Neither a meter nor a second has any concrete reality. They are useful fictions we use to get a job done.

>> No.7059470

>>7059452
So he's wrong. He said that time is somehow less real than space, and you just said both things are just as real/conceptional.

>> No.7059476

>>7059163
>:(
girl detected

>> No.7059477

>>7059476
> getting upset by that
):<

>> No.7059483

>>7059477
>doesn't know how to greentext
girl confirmed

>> No.7059490

>>7059111
Time isn't an arbitrary concept. Time will always pass, although I think our '1-2-3-4-5 pm/am' time is a arbitrary concept as well as out minutes/seconds/hours.

>> No.7059512

>>7059490
are you serious? our units of time are naturally ocouring phenomena. it takes exactly 1 hour for the 6 o'clock news to finish. coincidence?

>> No.7059533 [DELETED] 

>>7059470
No, I said that time is a fiction we create to measure rates of change, just as a meter is something we made up to measure space..

Of course space is real. Look the fuck around you.

>> No.7059539 [DELETED] 

>>7059533
So you are comparing time, a dimension to meter, a unit of dimension? Are you fucking retarded or something?

>> No.7059540

>>7059490
Please explain what is real or concrete about time.

Please explain what is actually passing.

Please explain what sort of physical reality the "past" or the "future" has.

I will save you some effort and point out that you can't actually explain any of these things. The only thing that ever exists in our conception of "time" is the present moment. The very instant you are experiencing right now is the only thing that is real. There is no past; there is only an instant that you remember having been the present at one time, and that state of things is now gone.

>> No.7059545 [DELETED] 

>>7059539
Time is not a dimension. Time is an illusory concept we create out of memory.

Quick, put your hand on a wall a foot away. See that? That's a real thing in space.

Okay now put your hand on one minute ago.

>> No.7059546

>>7059533
So you are comparing time, a dimension, to meter, a unit of a dimension? Are you fucking retarded or something?

>> No.7059548

>>7059546
Time is not a dimension. Time is an illusory concept we create out of memory.

Quick, put your hand on a wall a foot away. See that? That's a real thing in space.

Okay now put your hand on one minute ago.

>> No.7059550

>>7059548
> pop sci fags still on /sci/

>> No.7059552

>>7059548
>Only stuff that I can see is real !!
Time is a dimension by definition, second is it's (SI) unit. The rest of your post is just pure /x/-tier bullshit, not even worth reading.

>> No.7059567

>>7059552
I'm sorry that your mind is so closed that you refuse to see this simple and liberating fact. I'm sure you believe that the past is actually a real thing whose effects continue into the present. This is simply not so. The past flows out from the present like the wake of a ship; it does not drive the present, just as the wake does not drive the ship. When things you remember happened, it wasn't the past, it was now. The exact same now that it's always been and will always ever be.

Time is a dimension by definition... whose definition? The definition of human beings in need of a system of measurement? The definition of physicists who needed terms for their equations? Why do you assume that having an SI unit confers objective reality on something? Surely you don't think energy is anything more than conceptual accounting. I sincerely hope you don't think that a Joule is something that really exists somewhere.

>> No.7059572

>>7059548
But how can we create memory if our minds arent real?

Ur post Is Bad

>> No.7059573

>>7058925
A 3-sphere has finite Lebesgue measure, but no boundaries. Not everything is isomorphic to Euclidean 3-space, fool.

>> No.7059578

>>7059548
Time is considered a dimension in whatever book you read. What the fuck are you talking about.

Also did I miss how this article touches on how matter came into existence? I never really liked models with an infinite time period just because usually they go against the anthropic principle to some extent from the explanations I've heard. But hey, if it explains our universe well, then whatever.

>> No.7059580

(>>7059573)
Sorry, sorry, Borel measure.

>> No.7059593

>>7059578
Ah, so books written by people, this is how we know what constitutes reality? If it's written in a book, it must be true, eh?

Wake up. What is real is what you are experiencing. You are not experiencing time. You are experiencing the same eternal now that you have always experienced.

>> No.7059609
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7059609

>>7059567
>people who don't know physics trying to explain physics

>> No.7059616

So is this paper actually legit? I don't see anyone really talking about it.

>> No.7059619
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7059619

>>7059593
>Wake up. What is real is what you are experiencing. You are not experiencing time. You are experiencing the same eternal now that you have always experienced.
Whoa dude far out link me your blog so I can follow you.

>> No.7059635

>>7059593
Holy shit go back to /x/

>> No.7059639

>>7059609
>people who don't know truth thinking I'm trying to explain physics

>>7059619
Blogs are for people with agendas.

>> No.7059640

>>7058935
Woah, [-1,1] has a bijective corespondence with R, if obviously someone living in R would see there universe as finite, if that person was then included in the bijection to[-1,1] they would still read it as infinite, however it does have a lower and upper limit.

Obvioulsy not our universe, but this is a case where a universe is infinite with a definitive beggining and end

>> No.7059642
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7059642

>>7059639
Epic red pill bro!!!

>> No.7059643

>>7059635
I'm sorry that your mind is so closed that simple truths shock and offend you. I hope that someday you are able to move past this state of affairs.

>> No.7059644

>>7059639
>>people who don't know truth thinking I'm trying to explain physics
So in a thread about physics you're saying physics doesn't matter an trying to spout your /x/ """truth"""

Do you go into threads on engineering and say all the math behind it is useless since you can just be guided by the Universal Mind Knowledge Spirit?

Do you go on biology threads and show how your GED and years of watching x-files gives you enough wisdom to prove evolution is bullshit?

>> No.7059658

>>7059644
I'm merely pointing out a simple fact about the nature of reality. One that flies in the face of intuition, which is why you reject it so strongly.

Math is not useless. No abstraction is useless. Even the fiction of time has its use.

Evolution is not bullshit. It is one and the same process with all organic growth, which is an extension of the processes that occur at the level of subatomic particles.

I've never watched the X-Files.

>> No.7059662
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7059662

>>7059658
>evolution is an extension of subatomic processes

>> No.7059675

>>7059662
The behavior of subatomic particles is what determines the behavior of atoms. The behavior of atoms is what determines the behavior of molecules. The behavior of molecules is what determines the behavior of systems of molecules. So on and so forth. From one source all things depend. Everything that exists, all that is, it's all an extension of the interactions of things at the smallest scale.

>> No.7059683

>>7059425
Try talking about category theory and you'll get their attention.

>> No.7059691
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7059691

>>7059548
>>7059639
This is some real Jaden shit, man.

>> No.7059743

>>7059609
>people who don't know trolls trying to insult trolls

>> No.7059774

Duh to the op, anything that does not have a beginning does not have an ending, who said the universe had a beginning? Prove it?!

>> No.7059779

Yeah you fuken tard and where do sub atomic particles com from? Thats the problem our microscopes dont reach as deep, so until it can truth will have to wait, ner ner

>> No.7059804

>>7058919
So it's a loop?

>> No.7059810

Loop??? Is whatever any human whats it to be

>> No.7059817

There is no loop, why does life have to make sense to enjoy it, i would love if it did myself, your infinite thoughts roam around your finite brain, beat yourself up over this reality