Go into SCIENCE, they said

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Go into SCIENCE, they said Anonymous Sat Jan 10 01:20:46 2015 No.7000584 [Reply] [Original]

>"Why does anyone think science is a good job?

The average trajectory for a successful scientist is the following:

* age 18-22: paying high tuition fees at an undergraduate college

* age 22-30: graduate school, possibly with a bit of work, living on a stipend of $1800 per month

* age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year

* age 36-43: professor at a good, but not great, university for $65,000 per year

* age 44: with (if lucky) young children at home, fired by the university ("denied tenure" is the more polite term for the folks that universities discard), begins searching for a job in a market where employers primarily wish to hire folks in their early 30s

This is how things are likely to go for the smartest kid you sat next to in college. He got into Stanford for graduate school. He got a postdoc at MIT. His experiment worked out and he was therefore fortunate to land a job at University of California, Irvine. But at the end of the day, his research wasn't quite interesting or topical enough that the university wanted to commit to paying him a salary for the rest of his life. He is now 44 years old, with a family to feed, and looking for job with a 'second rate has-been' label on his forehead."

http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 01:30:15 2015 No.7000601

>>7000584
>science

The right word here is "academia", but you're pretty spot on. Getting tenure is becoming similar to winning a small lottery. You can still be a lecturer, but you won't be making enough to justify the education you got and they can fire you whenever they want.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 01:33:56 2015 No.7000605

>>7000584
I just started grad school last semester and this problem is getting to me.

I am 23, and I plan on getting married within 2 years and then having kids after that. But how I am I supposed to do that with 2000 a month for the next 5 years? The simple answer is you can't.

It is a shame that I am trying to be able to support a family in my mid to late 20's, but I will be barely making more than minimum wage while trying to do so.

Why is the system gamed against having a family in this career path?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 01:38:39 2015 No.7000610 >>7000584 >family to feed, i found the problem op, gotta devote your life to science, not some sloot

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 01:43:55 2015 No.7000615 Start your own business.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 01:48:57 2015 No.7000620 >>7000584 > age 22-30: graduate school, possibly with a bit of work, living on a stipend of $1800 per month fuck...I'm really getting boned. I was being paid $677 for my stipend.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 01:59:01 2015 No.7000629 this is why you go into medicine

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:02:58 2015 No.7000636 This is why you go into mathematics. Get the highest non-phd degree you can, learn some programming on the side and get into a banking job.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:10:55 2015 No.7000652 This is why you go into engineering. Come at me bitches.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:12:08 2015 No.7000656 this is why you go into liberal arts

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:14:42 2015 No.7000657 i just realized the only good job i can think of outside of STEM is accounting what is there outside of science

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:16:54 2015 No.7000658 >>7000657 The unknown. shudder

Ralphy !tRkvNlG2hY Sat Jan 10 02:19:01 2015 No.7000660

Go into science and then use your pre reqs for somethings that isn't worthless like med/optometry/dental/pharmaceutical school.

Also, as someone who is majoring in molecular bio, what loops do I have to jump through in order to score a job making new medicine for a pharmaceutical company?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:28:04 2015 No.7000670
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.... and then there's this:

>Johns Hopkins University President Ronald J. Daniels has written about the decline of research grants to younger researchers. "For more than a generation, grants for young scientists have declined. The number of principal investigators with a leading National Institutes of Health grant who are 36 years old or younger dropped from 18 percent in 1983 to 3 percent in 2010. Meanwhile, the average age when a scientist with a medical degree gets her first of these grants has risen from just under 38 years old in 1980 to more than 45 in 2013. The implications of these data for our young scientists are arresting. Without their own funding, young researchers are prevented from starting their own laboratories, pursuing their own research, and advancing their own careers in academic science. It is not surprising that many of our youngest minds are choosing to leave their positions."

http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/01/09/1934205/fewer-grants-for-young-researchers-causing-brain-drain-in-academia

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:28:12 2015 No.7000671 >>7000657 nursing accounting engineering computer science clinical lab science Basically applied science / math.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:30:19 2015 No.7000674

>>7000605
>Why is the system gamed against having a family in this career path?
Yes, pretty much. That's why you don't see many science people who are married and under 30. It's next to impossible to pay for your family through academic positions and salary.

How the fuck would you pay for a car? A house? A child? It's impossible on a pittance that you're making.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:30:40 2015 No.7000675 >>7000670 who is this fucking guy in all these photos???

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:33:24 2015 No.7000678 >>7000675 people call him "Harold"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:36:59 2015 No.7000681 >>7000678 oh thanks anon c:

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:43:27 2015 No.7000683 [DELETED]

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This is depressing.

I am only a freshman at some random university and already struggling every day. So even if I somehow manage to graduate I will only have average grades. It will probably take me one year longer than usual. Then I will go to grad school and if everything goes well I will get a Masters after 6 years of hard daily work. But then I am still a nobody. What then? Do I have to get a Ph.D if I want to do research? Will I have to be an assistant for years?

I don't want to do anything but research. I don't want to work at a job I hate or be some workdrone at a company. But it looks like the alternatives don't look better. I have average intelligence, am not the hardest working guy and I won't graduate from a top 10 university. Should I even bother with research? Should I just try to get some decently paid job and keep my involvement in science to reading articles and doing DIY projects in my free time?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:48:21 2015 No.7000687 >>7000683 you will never succeed at anything, its hopeless, you need a PhD to get any good job and if you dont love the subject or dont have a 130+ IQ its impossible, best to drop out and do drugs and fuck sluts while you still have your youth

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 02:48:30 2015 No.7000688 >>7000683 You probably don't have a high enough IQ to be a researcher, and even if you did, the odds are awful.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 05:44:19 2015 No.7000931
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This is kinda out there, but I need an opinion.

I used to write a lot while I was in high school. Like sci-fi novels and shit. When I entered college, I fucked around and ended up in Math (which I love) but at a shitty university. I've decided that I want to be a professor, and it doesn't matter if I end up doing research or not. I'd really just like to teach calculus to engineers and physicist students and have a pretty chill life. Maybe continue writing on the side.

Is this lifestyle a total pipe dream?

Pic related, I watched this movie (My Neighbor Totoro) the other day and I thought the father character was really chill. He leads the life I'd like to lead someday.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:02:07 2015 No.7000944

Advice from a professor in physics at Washington university:

Are you thinking of becoming a scientist? Do you want to uncover the mysteries of nature, perform experiments or carry out calculations to learn how the world works? Forget it!

Science is fun and exciting. The thrill of discovery is unique. If you are smart, ambitious and hard working you should major in science as an undergraduate. But that is as far as you should take it. After graduation, you will have to deal with the real world. That means that you should not even consider going to graduate school in science. Do something else instead: medical school, law school, computers or engineering, or something else which appeals to you.

Why am I (a tenured professor of physics) trying to discourage you from following a career path which was successful for me? Because times have changed (I received my Ph.D. in 1973, and tenure in 1976). American science no longer offers a reasonable career path. If you go to graduate school in science it is in the expectation of spending your working life doing scientific research, using your ingenuity and curiosity to solve important and interesting problems. You will almost certainly be disappointed, probably when it is too late to choose another career...

Read the rest here: http://physics.wustl.edu/katz/scientist.html

I choose mechanical engineering as its science based and I will still learn math and physics (mostly mechanics though). And most important I will have a degree that is valuable to society and when I got my degree I will be able to find a job that pays me well and where I contribute to society.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:07:44 2015 No.7000949 >>7000944 >http://physics.wustl.edu/katz/scientist.html >Go to law school >Thu May 13 12:39:11 CDT 1999 Maybe that was good advice when the piece was written.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:12:33 2015 No.7000955 >>7000949 >'99 Oh, he mentions something written in 2001, however my point still stands.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:13:32 2015 No.7000957

>>7000949
I think his point was that unless you are incredibly talented then its a bad idea to go into science, and even if you are very talented it's still going to be very hard to find a job. So in other words I think his point still stands even though now it may also be the same for law school.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:14:14 2015 No.7000958 >>7000671 It appears that actually using your skills for something useful results in money. Explain the science behind this.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:21:20 2015 No.7000962 >>7000629 Because the long hours and being on call often make finding and starting a family that much easier.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:22:09 2015 No.7000964 >>7000957 Oh yeah, I wasn't disputing his central point.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:27:51 2015 No.7000969 college is not a job training facility. in fact the word "education" has nothing to do with preparing you for a job.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:34:16 2015 No.7000972

I think people are going to universities because of wrong reasons.
They think that schools are supposed to guarantee them success if they stay on the track, but they only equip you with means to make your own way.
I'm personally trying to be an inventory and entrepreneur, I'm absorbing info from as many sources as possible to have as big of a picture of the universe as possible.
I'm studying biochemistry right now as an undergraduate, and when I finish it I'm going to study mechanics. This is to have a strong base at different tiers of the scientific spectrum, and then spread out on my own. I'm using the university mainly to establish connections with people and groups and to have the academic resources to expand my knowledge more than I'd be able to at my home.
Plus the diplomas would come handy if I ever had to get an actual job.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:34:35 2015 No.7000973 File: 32 KB, 300x450, 1402837077741.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7000675 my name's Harold

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:43:41 2015 No.7000976

Science is great but uh, its just not profitable. Got my B.S. in Physics at a state college, then got offered a job at a major animation studio. I'm now making 55k a year, and working on a masters in Art so i can hopefully make upwards of 90k a year. Science is my passion, but Art fills wallets..

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:46:50 2015 No.7000979 Is it like this globally? Or is it just in 'murica?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 06:57:56 2015 No.7000990 >>7000976 wtf how, there was just an animation studio looking for random dudes with physics degrees?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 07:19:57 2015 No.7001001

>University of California, Irvine

I am currently stuck one hour south of irvine at the other socal reject school, uc san diego. We just finished out first week.

my friend is currently in grad school at uci after working at code monkey temp jobs for the last two years. he has not had a full time job with benefits, but he is kind of a dork.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 07:35:44 2015 No.7001014 >>7000660 >making new medicine Switch to chemistry...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 07:38:08 2015 No.7001015 >>7000958 >economics >science

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 07:38:14 2015 No.7001016 >>7000976 Man, that sounds fun. Work on anything particularly interesting lately?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 07:38:36 2015 No.7001018

You people should read about famous scientists. You'll see that 99% of them being 0,01% of most intelligent people on earth, advancing humanity didn't really get paid mad money.
Then you should ask yourself are you willing to work 12-15 hours a day, everyday, are you super-smart?
Lastly, people make most money on simple, unfundamental things like sugary water (Coca-cola).

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 08:04:15 2015 No.7001049 Become a programmer get mad reps

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 10:00:22 2015 No.7001149 If you think of university as something that gives you the skills to get jobs, you are 99 % on the way to being a full plebeian. topicrelated, my insights: https://archive.moe/biz/thread/603867/#603867

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 10:04:21 2015 No.7001153

If you're passionate about science and you get into a good grad school (top 20), then you have a pretty good shot. But average grad schools are worthless. The reason is, a typical top 20 department graduates maybe 10 PhDs a year, but hire a new professor maybe once every couple years.

No department can employ as many people as they graduate. So what tends to happen is that graduates from top 20 departments take all the academic jobs in the country. At an average school, your professors will have attended great grad schools, and then had a mediocre career afterwards.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 10:13:33 2015 No.7001157 >>7001149 Agreed but maybe too soul-crushing a standpoint to adopt fully

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 10:54:36 2015 No.7001215

Where do you guys live where professors make dick all money?

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/pssd/pdf/universities_2013.pdf

In Ontario, every professor makes at least 100,000 a year, with most of them in the 150-170 range.
That doesn't count department heads or any other special positions - just having a full professorship. Even associate professors or adjunct professors make around 130,000 according to this public sector salary disclosure.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 11:09:00 2015 No.7001237 this thread is depressing as hell

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 11:11:12 2015 No.7001240 >>7001237 see >>7001215

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 11:13:38 2015 No.7001246 >>7000962 >implying anyone sane goes into hospital and doesn't join a private clinic

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 11:13:46 2015 No.7001247 >>7000671 Nursing?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 11:20:58 2015 No.7001257

>>7000584
>getting into science for the money
>considering having kids
Dude, no.

For that better go into medicine or engineering. You either devote yourself to science or to your family. Trying to do both may fuck up your entire life. It's up to you anyway, good luck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:05:46 2015 No.7001317 >>7001215 >Where do you guys live where professors make dick all money? That's TENURED PROFESSOR you dummy. I'm not gonna waste time explaining what that is since you don't care.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:07:52 2015 No.7001325 Engineer here. Enjoy your lifestyle below the poverty line while I live it up on my six figure consulting gig and suck all the big dicks I want.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:08:44 2015 No.7001328 >>7001325 >proud on being in consulting lol. you're literally a whore.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:14:11 2015 No.7001337 >>7001328 A very well-compensated whore :^)

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:18:20 2015 No.7001341

>>7001317
He also included the average salary for an assiocate or adjunct professor. It's twice as big as what OP mentioned.

>>7000584
You /scifag should all leave the US. When politicians reliaze their economy can't work because they've lost more than half of their would-be scientists, they make amend. Or find a way to survive with only the Asian math freaks left. Either way that's worth trying.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:20:33 2015 No.7001344
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Turns out that when you’re working the 10-16 hour days expected from a postdoc, it’s pretty hard to get out on the social scene to meet the breadwinner you’re going to need on that paltry salary. If you want to be a scientist, you’d better meet your sugar daddy/momma in college.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:24:45 2015 No.7001353

>>7000584
>>7001341

It's funny, because here in Germany people people say:
"Don't go into academica, chances are pretty low you'll get a good job (become a professor), but you'll end up being 40 and jobless. If you are a good, young scientist, better leave the country (preferably to the US)".

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:49:34 2015 No.7001381 >>7001353 Does it means we'll just have to move all to Canada ? Brrrr...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 12:56:00 2015 No.7001388 >>7000584 >* age 36-43: professor at a good, but not great, university for $65,000 per year Yeah good luck even getting that position unless it's adjunct I guess.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 13:05:48 2015 No.7001398
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>>7001344

Sorry, my post got cut for some reason :(

>A Career in Science Will Cost You Your Firstborn

Frankly, everything about the career, the business of science, is constructed to impoverish and disenfranchise young scientists, delaying the maturation of their careers beyond practicality.

I don’t know why this comes as news to so many people. It certainly came as news to my parents, who never finished college and who thought that getting a PhD would put me on the fast track to stability and financial freedom.

If I stay in science, it won’t.

....

Turns out that when you’re working the 10-16 hour days expected from a postdoc, it’s pretty hard to get out on the social scene to meet the breadwinner you’re going to need on that paltry salary. If you want to be a scientist, you’d better meet your sugar daddy/momma in college.

http://www.johnskylar.com/post/107416685924/a-career-in-science-will-cost-you-your-firstborn

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 13:33:47 2015 No.7001450 >>7001398 >>7000944 What about mathematics? Is it the same in that field too? I guess the most reasonable thing would be to ask my professors.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 13:42:06 2015 No.7001466

>>7001450
It's worse in mathematics, there aren't even the lab assistant and private research lab jobs there are for a handful of science grads. On the other hand pretty much up til you do your PhD you can always bitch out and do applied math instead of pure math and get any job you want 300k starting, the work you will be doing is very much not math though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 13:43:07 2015 No.7001468 >>7001450 and asking your professors would be pretty fucking useless, they are professors they don't have a job they are already set

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 13:52:04 2015 No.7001494 >>7001466 >>7001468 Alrighty then

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 13:59:01 2015 No.7001506

I graduated, was accepted to graduate school and decided to work in industry for 2-3 years before pursuing a PhD. I do not regret this decision. Within that time span I made excellent money in industry, became experienced in love and saw a life outside of academia. When I go back, I know it is because I belong there. Not because I have some romanticized version of it.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:10:09 2015 No.7001631
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2nd year Engy fag here. I'm thinking of finishing my degree in mechanical engineering, but physics is what I'm really interested in. Would it be a good idea to finish up this degree, and go to grad school for physics?

Getting a mech E degree would be more employable if I academia is too shit for me and I want a job in the outside world. I could even work for a time after graduation and decide then but I really like physics and would like to study it and advance the field even if its slightly. Mech E is obviously a closely related field but I want to be discovering the fundamental nature of the universe, not being some drone to a giant defense corporation helping them to engineer new and exciting ways to bomb brown people.

Obviously I'm exaggerating and there is nothing wrong with a well paying stable corporate job but I like the "ideal" of academia. Is it worth a shot or should I just go straight for a more practical career and just read up on physics on my own?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:33:40 2015 No.7001670 >>7001257 >You either devote yourself to science or to your family. Trying to do both may fuck up your entire life. All my professors have wives and kids Even the post docs I worked under have girlfriends and happy families / kids on the way.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:39:03 2015 No.7001691

>>7001468
>and asking your professors would be pretty fucking useless

Confirmed

Don't ask your professors. I made the mistake of asking mine and believing what they said for a while.

I asked my GR lecturer how to deal with abstract mathematics coming from a physics background. I asked how to get past re-reading the same opening chapter to a book over and over because you don't understand it.

He replied: Hmmm. Just stick at it. Re-read it slowly. Maybe search for alternative texts. You will get it it's worth the reward.

The fact that he found it hard too made me feel better. But his advice did fuck all. He told me to just stick at it because that's what worked for him. Know why? Cos he's a fuckin professor at a top university in the UK. He never struggled with this stuff, he just suffered momentary setbacks that nothing a little re-reading couldn't solve.

The same is true of career prospects. "Follow your heart. Put in the hardwork and everything will work out okay. You may suffer setbacks but you'll prevail"

That's rich advice coming from someone whose major setback is failing one exam in 2nd year and whose grades were otherwise top of the class and who waltzed into whatever grad school they wanted and only had to slave for a couple of years before finding a post at a university. Professor's advice is meaningless.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:40:09 2015 No.7001695 >>7001506 Do you not fear falling behind the times? Out of study habits? Who do you use as your academic reference? You haven't been a student for years and I'm not sure I'd trust an employed to give an academic PhD application reference.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:45:14 2015 No.7001706 >>7000584 Current postdoc here. I've gone through a bunch of top schools. You do not do this for the money. No one I know did this for the money. If a list like the one in OP's post matters to you, NEVER GO TO GRAD SCHOOL, PERIOD.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:45:33 2015 No.7001707
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>>7000584
>age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year
Scandinavian PhD students make $50,000 a year and that is in pure sciences. Even more in applied fields. How is that land of opportunity working out for you?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:48:41 2015 No.7001719

>>7001691
Former lecturer here, just writing to let you know the lowdown.

Your GR lecturer didn't give a fuck about you, and he definitely thought you were a bloomin' idiot. However he's not allowed to tell you you're an idiot, so he just made up some unfalsifiable bullshit to get you the fuck out of his office.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:49:47 2015 No.7001723 >>7001719 lol. just because you are a cunt and were a lecturer doesnt mean all lecturers are cunts

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:52:20 2015 No.7001731

>>7001723
oh, so you think that bit about finding alternative literature, just keep at it, etc., was the result of his carefully studying the pedagogy literature in order to give you the right answer? you must also think that somewhere out there there's a girl just for you and all you gotta do is be yourself

>>7001695
it doesn't take much to compete with yet another generic "I taught this guy's senior real analysis class, I don't actually remember him but according to my records he got an A" PhD application reference, lol

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:54:25 2015 No.7001735

>>7001706

OP's post doesn't matter to me

What matters to me is that I'm not in the top 10% of undergrads, and come from a good but not excellent school. All of my lecturers in the area I like did Cambridge MMath Part III. Then they divide up every academic position in the mediocre universities between themselves. Even then only the top grades are successful (reading their CVs is mindblowing).

So I'm giving up.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:55:38 2015 No.7001738

>>7001731
>oh, so you think that bit about finding alternative literature, just keep at it, etc

no. but thats not the same thing as "didnt give a fuck"/"bloomin idiot". not everyone is an elitist cunt. its possible he thought his advice was genuinely good, its possible he thought it wasnt, but neither of those means that he was a worthless prick like yourself

>it doesn't take much to compete with yet another generic "I taught this guy's senior real analysis class, I don't actually remember him but according to my records he got an A" PhD application reference, lol

lol why are you so cynical? so much projection, how can you be so bitter about your life

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:57:39 2015 No.7001744 >>7001731 >carefully studying the pedagogy literature >implying that the formal study of education is not a ridiculous joke of a field

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:57:41 2015 No.7001745

>>7001731

That wasn't even me. But I don't think he was being malicious.

He seemed genuinely overjoyed when i asked questions at the end of a lecture and kept me for 5+ minutes because I felt awkward just walking away when he was in the middle of a sentence.

I think he just genuinely thought that was good advice because it's what worked for him (he's a tenured Professor at a Russel Group university, of course it worked for him)

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 15:58:37 2015 No.7001746

>>7001738
I'm not saying he's an elitist cunt. I'm saying he was very much interested in writing his latest journal submission and very annoyed that he has to teach undergrads to put food on the table. I'm sure he thought his advice was genuinely good in the sense that it would get you out of his sight faster and it's not like your wasting time on abstract algebra is any worse for the world than your wasting time on vidya

I'm cynical because I've been in academia longer than you, kid. Talk to me in a decade, you can buy me a beer then

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:01:40 2015 No.7001752 >>7001746 not everyone is annoyed by students keen to learn. you sad-sack, crybaby faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:03:23 2015 No.7001757 >>7001752 I love students keen to learn, when they're not clearly retarded. If you can't grok the first chapters of abstract algebra, then sorry, you're retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:04:24 2015 No.7001760 >>7001757 lol. elitist cunt. like i said.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:08:08 2015 No.7001769

>>7001760
if I'm an elitist cunt to you, it's just that i'm eliter than you (which isn't saying much at all, tbh).

don't be so emotional about it. you're on /sci/, apply some rational thinking. you say he's a tenured prof at a russel group uni. why, then, do you think he should be helping you with babby's first homomorphism theorem? don't you think that's a poor allocation of resources, when you could get the same help from a first-year grad student? should Albert Einstein spend his time explaining Newtonian physics to freshmen?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:11:38 2015 No.7001772

>>7001769
>if I'm an elitist cunt to you, it's just that i'm eliter than you

that does not follow. i could be better than you and still recognize that you're a faggot.

>why, then, do you think he should be helping you with babby's first homomorphism theorem?

because its his fucking job you thick cunt

im not the guy who had the algebra problem btw. i just wanted to call you out.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:12:02 2015 No.7001774

Ok, serious question here. Why not become a businessman during university and gradually make more and more money, so that when you go for phd you are already wealthy enough not to be a slave and be able to do whatever research you want? Also I've heard physicists/mathematicians are welcome in companies doing economy researches, so you've always got that going for you.
I know a chemist, who cooks some complex stuff for companies as a job, while postdocking.
Physicists and mathematicians would have to come up with something unrelated for business, but hey, if you pursue science path on the premise of being intellectually superior, surely, you'll think of something, right? Riiiiight?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:13:48 2015 No.7001779

>>7001769

Ok, if you're in the position you say you are, answer this.

Is it worth pursuing a phd? If university is the only place I was ever happy? If I find writing papers fun and being surrounded by people all working on simply acquiring knowledge and beinginterested in the same things as me?

What if I'm not a robotic middle class hardworking always pushed to the limit by the parents their whole life model student, and I don't feel compelled to bury myself in textbooks all my waking hours? What if I'm not a straight A student but instead went abroad to socialise and pursue girls and "study" this past summer (ironically I did get A's abroad because the courses were entry level and easy)

Is it worth it for a slightly lazy but fairly capable student willing to try their best? Or not worth it unless you're valedictorian and top of your class every class?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:14:47 2015 No.7001782

>>7001772
>its his fucking job

wow, you totally dont even know how academia works at all. doesn't your school have TAs? it's their job to deal with holding peoples' hands. the tenured prof's job is to do research, get grants, do research, and get grants. oh, and lecture, but that's basically the least important 1% of his duties and he is explicitly encouraged to spend as little time as he can get away with on it :)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:17:10 2015 No.7001790 >>7000931 I was thinking this too, I'm never going to have kids and I live frugally. Honestly, lecturing or HS teaching seems like a pretty neat gig. Also, I'd like to think I'm good at it.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:17:11 2015 No.7001791

>>7001779
it's not worth it. you can write papers without a PhD, it's not like journals check that or something. "being surrounded by people all working on simply acquiring knowledge" is awesome but it's not what a professor does, a professor spends his time doing committee bitch work, applying for grants, playing department politics, etc.

>robotic middle class
stop watching "Office Space" and go experience the real world, Nancy

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:18:13 2015 No.7001793 >>7001631 a-any advice

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:19:25 2015 No.7001795 >>7001466 I wonder if it's worth doing applied and pure math. I mean, it's like getting a creative writing degree and an MBA

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:19:52 2015 No.7001796 >>7001791 >>7001779 one other thing i forgot to mention. about "the only place i was ever happy": you need to upgrade which drugs you're doing

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:20:18 2015 No.7001798

>>7001782

Brit here.

No TAs. Not in that class or any other this year.

It is his job to teach. One of my lecturers was delivering an entire lecture on "should I pursue a Phd?" and described in great detail how his time is spent and how lectures are delivered. A large portion of his time is spent teaching and outreach. Profs give the grunt work to their postdocs and phds, they aren't crunching it themselves.

My university takes teaching seriously as a job. It also takes the student evaluation of teaching feedback forms very seriously, the ranking you give out of 5 to a prof. for each aspect of his teaching is fed directly into whether or not he gets promoted.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:22:36 2015 No.7001800

>>7001793

Only that physics and Mech Eng are NOT similar in the slightest.

Source: Studied undergrad Mech Eng then transferred to Physics because I hated it, thought they'd be similar. They're not. Not sure if I made a mistake or not, I love physics not Eng, but now I want a job I want to be an Engineer a lot more than I want to be an academic.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:24:08 2015 No.7001804
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>>7001774
This

Ultimately those who are truly smart will become successful in one way or another. Those who can only do "muh maths" or "muh physics" within an academic institution are for the most part not setup for success. This is mostly what I see ITT.

If you intern with NASA, you're pretty much guaranteed a job there and possibly even establish a career (if you want to work for le government lolz).

If you're worrying about money, there's more you do in life than just your job to save funds, especially if you're in it for science/research. For Christ's sake, I had two high school teachers who had a few million in equity because they fucked around with stocks or something.

On another note -- don't go into science if you just want to make a lot of money, ya dick.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:33:31 2015 No.7001815 >>7001804 What's your current position? Unfortunately, I never found anyone successfully making money, while doing grad school/postdocking on this board.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 16:34:12 2015 No.7001819 >>7001800 How was your physics grad work? Is your mech eng degree able to get you a job?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 17:42:33 2015 No.7001907 >>7001796 This

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 17:50:46 2015 No.7001916 >>7000931 Wow, this sounds a lot like me. Where do you go?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 17:58:17 2015 No.7001925
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>>7000584
http://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-be-denied-tenure-as-a-professor

>The short answer: I was denied tenure at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst in 2008. It wasn't fun, it wasn't a surprise and it wasn't the end of anything really, other than my employment at UMass. All my graduate students were able to get their degrees. It was a big hit to my ego, and a big reality check: I was not made for a life-long academic career.

>The somewhat longer answer: it felt like being the victim of a mafia hit by members of your own "family": the same people that yesterday invited you to their kids birthday parties and pinned awards on your lapel are today pulling the trigger. I was treated with exaggerated courtesy, and I could tell some people were truly afraid I could go psycho and do something terrible. It felt unreal, after 15 years of a successful academic career to end like that. It also revealed a lot about the character of my colleagues: some avoiding me as if I had a contagious disease, others offering warm, friendly hands. Some even tried to show me the dark aspects of tenure, which to me sounded like a wealthy person's complaints about wealth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:01:40 2015 No.7001928 if you actually want to do shit using science, you need to become an engineer. that's where shit actually happens, and you actually build things that rake in money.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:03:35 2015 No.7001932 >>7001247 Registered Nurses (at least here in America) make a good amount of money.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:04:23 2015 No.7001934

Haven't read every post in the thread but what about the private sector? I know most of us in here are bashing on academic science (and it totally deserves it) but how would a PhD fare in private research? Just doing a few quick searches for jobs in my field (genetics, molec. biology, etc.) and I find a load of companies and institutes looking for PhDs to hire on as researchers and such.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:08:18 2015 No.7001938 Can't believe a random-ass 4chan thread just changed my entire life

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:08:49 2015 No.7001940
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>>7001925
this link... this fucking link...

so, after 15 yrs of doing research and getting grants, you apply for tenure and if you're denied (and most are since tenure is extremely hard to get), you're immediately fired and there's ZERO chance of you getting a position anywhere else since you have "loser" branded on your forehead.

this whole thread should be required reading for anyone entering science.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:08:51 2015 No.7001941 >>7001938 It's been known to happen from time to time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:13:03 2015 No.7001948 >>7001938 >Can't believe a random-ass 4chan thread just changed my entire life How so? Elaborate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:13:14 2015 No.7001949 >wanting to get married and have kids That's where you will fuck up, you stupid fuck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:15:00 2015 No.7001951 >tfw plant biologist >tfw only a thousand students graduating every year across the country in the field >tfw plant biotech is booming feels good man >>7000944 >go to law school sure, like all the rest of the science burnouts. great idea!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:16:03 2015 No.7001953 >>7001934 This. How's it look for math PhDs (pure)?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:16:27 2015 No.7001955 This thread just proves that winners don't browse 4chan >all this doom and gloom and pessimism

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:17:05 2015 No.7001956 >be computer engineer major >hopefully get a decent job >will be single >move to NY and watch Yankees games for the rest of my life Can I do it, /sci/?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:18:04 2015 No.7001958 >>7001955 it's called reality, dumbfuck. go look up how many tenured positions are available each year at universities... then look at the number of postdocs. your odds of scoring tenure are less than 1000:1.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:20:16 2015 No.7001967

>>7001956
>>be computer engineer major

computer engineering is too close to EE and there's too many EE's without jobs. also, in NY there's only IBM doing computer engineering at scale and the are rumors of them selling the unit.

your better bet is moving to CA and watching Giants games.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:20:33 2015 No.7001968 >>7001958 Nobody says PhDs have to go into academia. Enjoy being a loser, I guess.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:20:57 2015 No.7001969 File: 180 KB, 1309x428, Noteworthy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7000584

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:22:10 2015 No.7001972 >>7001967 What major can I do to move to NY and watch Yankees game while living comfortably?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:22:26 2015 No.7001973 >>7001707 >Scandinavian PhD students make $50,000 a year considering huge tax burden as well as much higher cost of living, it probably ends up on a similar level as the murriburger numbers

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:26:00 2015 No.7001978 So is nitrogen asphyxiation painless?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:27:49 2015 No.7001980 >>7001978 Just take a couple sleeping pills and tie a plastic bag around your head before nodding off.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:32:05 2015 No.7001989
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STEM people tend to be freaks who want to hide out and go through life unnoticed. Your soft skills are your best assets. The business world is literally run by people who go to Top 15 schools.

An Oxford foreign language major runs ABC TV Entertainment Division. I met this art history major here in LA who was interning at HBO. He was going to Bowdoin College, and the funny thing was I had never even heard of that college. No one in LA even knows what it is, but through connection he landed a nice job in cable TV.

Pic: Stanford math grad student Elizabeth Goodman

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:32:36 2015 No.7001992 >>7001972 >What major can I do to move to NY and watch Yankees game while living comfortably? Finance, accounting or business. Take your pick.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:34:12 2015 No.7001995 >>7000976 This has to be a joke

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:36:24 2015 No.7002002 >>7001989 >Pic: Stanford math grad student Elizabeth Goodman I see she has extra few genes...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:49:27 2015 No.7002027 >>7000931 This is called a lecturer and they are usually part time shit paid positions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:54:30 2015 No.7002039 >>7000605 $2000 a month is more than my family had, and we were a family of 5.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:55:34 2015 No.7002040
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Okay,
but 6 months ago or so there was a similar 200 posts thread discussion on how engineering is the worst thing ever --- infinite forced meeting, internal politics, etc.
Anybody got a link to the archive of that?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:56:20 2015 No.7002041 18-22: study in community college 22-24: graduate school 24-27: getting PhD while have part-time job 30: working as a post-doc for $80,000 to $120,000 per year

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:58:39 2015 No.7002051
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http://bjoern.brembs.net/2015/01/booming-university-administrations/

Go read the link above... hahahah... there's way, way more admin staff than research/teaching positions at universities. And their jobs are even more secure than research/lecturer positions as well.

Fucking madness.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 18:59:38 2015 No.7002054

>>7001819
Not him, but undergrad ME/Physics double major here. Physics is a lot tougher, broader, and more mathematical than ME, but ME stuff is what you'll actually use in industry. My advice: graduate and get a good industry job, one that pays for grad work. Take a class or two every semester, and use it to further your career or go back into academia, whatever you prefer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:04:08 2015 No.7002066 Get an at-home lab and work in citizen / community science. If anyone is in Houston then maybe we can work something out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:05:55 2015 No.7002073 >>7001989 mai nu waifu

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:09:04 2015 No.7002081 >>7000584 You are equating "good" with "high paying". Typical American.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:12:33 2015 No.7002091 >>7002073 if she was the last woman alive and human race depended on me procreating with her... I'd let the humanity down.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:16:48 2015 No.7002097
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>>7001989
What the fuck is that hideous creature? I swear to god she could be reciting all the lagrangians for all I care but I would NOT hesitate to put her down. Knowledge is power, yes, but now the price here is just too high.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:16:55 2015 No.7002098
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>>7002081
>Typical American.
Let me guess. You're just yet another socially enlightened European here to educate all the heathens about the error of their ways. How very noble of you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:20:57 2015 No.7002102 >>7002097 >reciting all the lagrangians ? Are you trying to use large words that you don't understand?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:21:00 2015 No.7002103 File: 173 KB, 679x631, 1360341166031.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002040 So it official we all should have been accounting/fiance/marketing majors?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:24:27 2015 No.7002106 >>7001381 Outside of academia, job prospects in Canada mean industrial work. Meaning you're a glorified lab tech, doing work on rails.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:27:25 2015 No.7002110 >>7001237 agreed, fucking popsci

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:46:49 2015 No.7002133
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>>7000584
>not going to China/brazil/whathaveyou to teach and fuck undergrads
>not fathering plenty of children via spermdonorship
>not gambling the stockmarket/startups
>not writing a manifesto and sending some letterbombs because your fed up with live and never had pussy

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:49:44 2015 No.7002137 >>7002133 >teach and fuck undergrads >never had pussy ?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:51:31 2015 No.7002140 File: 7 KB, 247x229, patricklaugh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002041 >post-dic for 80k+ per year

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 19:59:48 2015 No.7002152

>>7001706
I kept in touch with three professors throughout the years. I published under one of them. They are familiar with my undergraduate work and I was one of their best students. They have not forgotten me and I visit / keep in touch with them. They knew my plans before I gthaduated. I was accepted to a top 20 initially from their letters. I'm switching fields from pure math to CS theory. In a sense I will be "starting over", but why do I care? This is what I want to do with my life and this is worth getting right and pursuing. One of my recommenders (graduated from MIT/did research for the longest time there) even recommended my career path. He told me professors in CS prefer students with industry experience as their research is more directed. I could see it being a problem for someone that didn't stay in touch / no research experience but that isn't a problem for me.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:00:52 2015 No.7002153

>>7001695
>>7001706
I kept in touch with three professors throughout the years. I published under one of them. They are familiar with my undergraduate work and I was one of their best students. They have not forgotten me and I visit / keep in touch with them. They knew my plans before I gthaduated. I was accepted to a top 20 initially from their letters. I'm switching fields from pure math to CS theory. In a sense I will be "starting over", but why do I care? This is what I want to do with my life and this is worth getting right and pursuing. One of my recommenders (graduated from MIT/did research for the longest time there) even recommended my career path. He told me professors in CS prefer students with industry experience as their research is more directed. I could see it being a problem for someone that didn't stay in touch / no research experience but that isn't a problem for me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:02:14 2015 No.7002155 File: 53 KB, 396x385, 1325374042001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7001925 >tfw when putting these keywords into google and reading all the stories

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:04:13 2015 No.7002160 I've been very seriously considering dropping out of my chemistry degree and going back to work. Can't say this thread isn't helping my decision along.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:08:44 2015 No.7002168 >>7001925 i've seen professors not get tenure and all those cases were professors who legitimately didn't deserve tenure. i've never seen a case of someone being denied tenure wrongly

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:09:00 2015 No.7002169 >>7001989 >STEM people tend to be freaks who want to hide out and go through life unnoticed. Mfw you're the same who posted this in some other thread. Get a life, idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:11:11 2015 No.7002175 >STEM anons think they deserve a prestigious job just because they studied science it's real life, kids. someone has to lose out. sometimes it's you. doesn't mean you can't enjoy the field even if you're not one of those lucky few.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:23:46 2015 No.7002195 >>7002175 Going to school for 4 years of undergrad then 4,5,6, or more of grad school, only to make a less than a high school teacher for a almost half decade more as a postdoc is pretty ruff anon. What are your career ambitions?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:24:41 2015 No.7002196 >>7002175 How can you enjoy the field if you're deemed unworthy to work in it?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:30:54 2015 No.7002202

>>7002196
not getting tenure doesn't mean you're deemed unfit to work in science, it means you're deemed unfit to be a PI.

PIs don't do science, they write grants and sign paychecks.

>>7002195
> only to make a less than a high school teacher
lmao, grad students get paid more than some states' high school teachers these days.

to answer your question, my career ambitions are open ended at this point. i'm not counting at all on ending up on a tenure track position, be cause it doesn't suit me and there's so few of them. i'm considering going into industry (lots of great jobs in my area)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:38:50 2015 No.7002213 >>7002202 Grad students don't get paid more than 20k a year and usually have to live in places where the cost of living is pretty high. A high school teacher can easily make triple that amount while still being less than 30 years old.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:40:02 2015 No.7002215 >>7002213 >Grad students don't get paid more than 20k I get 28k a year, bro, and one of the schools I interviewed at (and was offered a spot at) offered me 30k.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:42:01 2015 No.7002221 >>7002215 and in my state, you have to work at least five years to earn an appreciable amount more than that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:43:07 2015 No.7002224 >>7002221 as a teacher, i mean. and a teacher with a bachelor's degree never earns more than 50k here, even with more than thirty years of experience.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:43:39 2015 No.7002226 >>7002213 Jesus, why are most high school teachers bitching about salary?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:44:32 2015 No.7002230

>>7002202
>not getting tenure doesn't mean you're deemed unfit to work in science, it means you're deemed unfit to be a PI.
Not getting tenure means you've received a fucking PINK SLIP after few decades of hard WORK as a PI.

After you don't get tenure, you're basically fit to do nothing. You're already old and starting from scratch is not something most people can successfully accomplish that late in their life.

That's why a lot of people commit suicide. Yes, really. It's sad that this is not discussed in the open.

http://deadprofessor.blog
spot.com/

http://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/tenure-track-and-depressionanxietysuicidal-ideation

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/02/18/crazy-for-tenure.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_University_of_Alabama_in_Huntsville_shooting

and finally,

>100 Reasons NOT to Go to Graduate School
http://100rsns.blog
spot.com/2011/10/71-tenure-track-is-brutal.html

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:45:55 2015 No.7002232

>>7002230
>After you don't get tenure, you're basically fit to do nothing.
not true. lots of them move to another school and try for tenure there.

>>100 Reasons NOT to Go to Graduate School
>implying the sole reason to go to graduate school is to be a tenure track professor

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:46:31 2015 No.7002233 >>7002213 mfw the median is 56k http://www1.salary.com/high-school-teacher-salary.html I'm 25 years old. Is it too late for me to become a high school teacher?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:50:24 2015 No.7002242 >>7002233 hope you enjoy way more bureaucracy and institutional bullshit than you'd ever get in research

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:52:31 2015 No.7002244 >>7002230 >Not getting tenure means you've received a fucking PINK SLIP after few decades of hard WORK as a PI. >decades >decades >decades Tenure track reviews happen at 3 years, decisions at 6 years.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:52:42 2015 No.7002245
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>>7002232
>not true. lots of them move to another school and try for tenure there.

And most of them fail there as well because they've been branded as failures. And only few are able to spend another 10-20 years of their life making shitty assistant/postdoc/associate prof pay.

Read the dead prof's blog.

>DEAD_PROFESSOR
>SMALL, MIDWESTERN TOWN
>I spent 24 years in academia in the hard sciences, 16 of those as a full-time professor, 13 in tenure-track positions, to find myself now completely forced out of it at the age of 50, having been denied tenure at two consecutive institutions.

You're fucking delusional if you think getting tenure is easy or that you're gonna get it. Universities are shrinking, there's a student debt bubble that's close to bursting and profs are working into old age. Tenured positions are harder to get than winning lotteries.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:53:42 2015 No.7002246 >>7002244 >Tenure track reviews happen at 3 years, decisions at 6 years. It depends on a university. Most in the US have 10+ year tracks.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:55:27 2015 No.7002249 Tenure should be done away with, and fulltime professors simply paid like human beings.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:56:42 2015 No.7002254

>>7002245
>You're fucking delusional if you think getting tenure is easy or that you're gonna get it
did you even read my posts? i never said that.

here's what I said:
>not getting tenure doesn't mean you're deemed unfit to work in science, it means you're deemed unfit to be a PI.
you're acting like your life is over if you don't get one of the miniscule amount of PI jobs in an oversaturated market.

that's a stupid thing to think. there's plenty of jobs out there that value the skillset of an accomplished scientist that don't involve being a PI.

>>7002246
citation, please.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 20:58:19 2015 No.7002257 >>7001257 Darwin was devoted to his children and oh wait biology isn't a science amiright.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:03:58 2015 No.7002266

>>7001989
Soft skills are incredibly underrated by technical people. Especially scientists and to a lesser degree engineers.

These people are credentialists. They accumulate accomplishments, high gpas and things they can put on their CV or resume. They'd rather brute force an impressive resume that they can fire away from the safety of their computer than go out and network.

If you have soft skills you can get out there and network and you don't even need a resume. They'll ask you for a resume so they have something to give to HR. But, they won't read it.

My life as an academic was a lie. Soft skills are king.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:10:21 2015 No.7002276 >>7002266 Whats your academic/career position?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:29:52 2015 No.7002295 File: 94 KB, 640x640, 1395868009522.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002266 >Soft skills are incredibly underrated well, spill some secrets, dear anon. teach us some of these skills.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:31:41 2015 No.7002300 >>7002040 Do you remember key words or phrases? look them up here https://archive.moe/sci/ I truly want to read the thread.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:39:21 2015 No.7002315

>>7002295
Not him but I'm guess learning skills like rhetoric and general writing skills can be massively helpful, even things like keep up a polite, well groomed, well dressed appearance can be helpful when half your field may be made up of dull tooth boring Asians.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:40:45 2015 No.7002321 File: 13 KB, 488x392, 1413213289998.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002257 he married his cousin when he was 60 or something... nothing a modern person could do today

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:47:32 2015 No.7002336

So this this thread is soul crushing, any positive stories of people in the industry to balance it all out? I know this is 4chan and most people on /sci/ are undergrads who think they are hot shit because they know how to take an integral but I'm sure some people here are in a successful career they enjoy.
Right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:50:29 2015 No.7002344 >>7002336 I made 100k a year before I went back to school for my biochemistry degree. It's not about the money.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:50:39 2015 No.7002346

>>7002266
Well, see, not everyone is capable of being a social butterfly, and if we're to have a society worth living in, we need to change the job "market" such that everyone, the pretty and the sociable, the smart and the skilled, and yes even the so called worthless neets can get decent paying work.

If we don't things will turn ugly very quickly.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 21:58:23 2015 No.7002359

>>7002344
I don't think everyone here wants to a business owner making 300k a year or whatever. But many are passionate of our field and hearing stories of people working after 10 years of education, 10-15 years of climbing the academic ladder only to get shot down in your 40s, with no tenure, mediocre pay, no real options to further your career, is very disheartening and makes you want to say screw it I'll just go be a code monkey for google or something more practical

>>7002346
Technocracy revolution when comrade?

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:00:59 2015 No.7002364

>>7002295
Go read these. You are probably a dork future engineer. This is what happens when engineers try to do business with entertainment types. An example of a soft-skill is reading people and their intentions, the Monster fools never learned that; two dork stereotype Asians.

http://gizmodo.com/5981823/beat-by-dre-the-inside-story-of-how-monster-lost-the-world

http://gizmodo.com/monster-is-suing-dr-dre-over-beats-fiasco-1677881925

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:07:04 2015 No.7002374 >>7000584 >going into academia There's your problem. Go into based industry and you'll start at twice what post-docs are making.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:11:41 2015 No.7002383 File: 298 KB, 580x400, rachel_nichols_trek[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This girl went to an Ivy and majored in math. So not everyone is a freak. She is also 5-10, so we know she would always land the plumb business job.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:15:29 2015 No.7002391 >>7002383 >not a freak >is green Nice try, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:17:57 2015 No.7002394 this is why you go into engineering. if research is what you want to do there's plenty of it, and really cool stuff, but if not there's always a job opening for an engineer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:29:33 2015 No.7002406 >>7002394 This is what I did. That is until I dropped engineering because that shit was hard as diamonds.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:30:30 2015 No.7002408

>>7002374
>Go into based industry and you'll start at twice what post-docs are making.
Holy shit this. When I finished my biochem PhD I could either take a postdoc for $35k a year or go into big pharma making $80k. The choice was fairly obvious. Five years later I'm making 6 figures and get to go to conferences all over the world for free whereas postdocs are probably barely making above $40k or, if they managed to get an assistant prof job, make $60k max.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:33:43 2015 No.7002411 >>7002408 What are some viable options for a math PhD who doesn't want to go into academia?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:35:16 2015 No.7002413 >>7002411 >math PhD who doesn't want to go into academia? don't get a math phd because /sci/ told you so

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:40:07 2015 No.7002422 >>7002411 I hope you got a minor or dual majored into something real world applicable like engineering, finance, accounting, or computer science.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 22:41:03 2015 No.7002425 >>7002411 Finance immediately comes to mind. My roommate from college works for Goldman Sachs and said they hire a lot of math PhDs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:09:34 2015 No.7002460 >>7000972 this! good luck to you i hope you'll someday have a nice idea that pays off. Sounds like you have a good idea about what to REALLY expect from uni

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:09:39 2015 No.7002461 >>7002425 >>7002425 >Goldman Sachs Yes but his boss is the Harvard history/law school guy. Your friend is not going to run anything on Wall St. http://www.goldmansachs.com/who-we-are/leadership/executive-officers/lloyd-c-blankfein.html

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:15:43 2015 No.7002467

>>7000990
why not... people with physics degree tend to have good visual thinking, are often good with software/programming, have a good feeling of how to describe the world -> things like shaders / game engines / textures / possible movement of animated figures are just a different kind of the manifestation of that than equations and plots (btw it really annoys me if i see animated things in movies which don't seem right because basic physic principles are ignored) always thought about how it would be if these ppl get more consulting from physicists

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:23:56 2015 No.7002475

>>7001353
problem is, germany has basicly an up or out system which fucks up most people when they're 40 and still not professor yet and it also forbids them to stay in a lower temporary uni position (like lecturer in US) that's the reason many go somewhere else at that age

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:31:49 2015 No.7002485 >>7001769 >should Albert Einstein spend his time explaining Newtonian physics to freshmen? absolutely! You never think about things as hard as when you need to explain it in an easy way and new ideas often come from rethinking old ones in a new way

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:34:16 2015 No.7002491 >>7001782 i know a prof who said he'd rather be in prison doing his research than to waste time teaching undergrads

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:34:28 2015 No.7002492 How bad is the situation for people who want to work at a liberal-arts type college?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:41:23 2015 No.7002500 >>7002492 >How bad is the situation for people who want to work at a liberal-arts type college? Probably million times worse.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:42:52 2015 No.7002503 >>7002500 How do you figure? I'd imagine it's not as attractive because you can't devote as much time to research.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:44:06 2015 No.7002507 >>7002485 you learn a little bit from teaching a course once (not nearly as much as you would doing other things) and from then on its just dealing with retards

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:44:27 2015 No.7002508 >>7002503 more like no jobs where you can apply yourself

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:48:41 2015 No.7002511 >>7002503 No, instead you spend the bulk of your time there dealing with a bunch of aimless shit head undergrads that attend a liberal arts college that are more concerned with how many drugs they can do and how often they can have sex in a week.

Anonymous Sat Jan 10 23:55:53 2015 No.7002519

People get paid well to 'do' things. You've heard the saying, those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym. If you wanna teach, don't expect a whole lot. Now if you wanna be useful to people who matter and society in general, like being an engineer or research scientist at a private industry, you can expect to get paid very well. As a basic entry engineer I made about $52K a year at 23 years old. Some of my friends even got into the $70K range. This I'd all right out of college. We're all science related jobs and degrees.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:12:31 2015 No.7002536

>>7002519
>>7002519
With a BS in math I made over 80k my first year (in a low cost of living area). I also was accepted to a top school for grad studies. I chose the job over school. I do plan to go back for a PhD, but most people in my position do not.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:14:14 2015 No.7002539 >>7002511 I would hope people studying physics or math might actually care a bit, maybe not though

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:16:59 2015 No.7002544 >>7002536 What job?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:18:15 2015 No.7002548 >>7002519 Tell me more about your pay. Engineering student here, I just want to hear how it progressed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:19:47 2015 No.7002549 >>7002544 Data Analyst.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:24:03 2015 No.7002554

>>7000584

and it's why you should never, EVER, try to get a job in the education industry unless you want to be a SPED teacher at a highschool

all the really smart people go into private work, because then you have a better chance at owning the patents you make. Why should your hard work be given to a university that will just sell it anyway when you could sell it yourself and cut out the middleman?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:25:48 2015 No.7002556 >>7002539 If you're teaching at a liberal arts college then I seriously doubt that any of the students actually cares about physics or math.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 00:28:45 2015 No.7002563 >>7002556 Aren't there some institutions that are sort of geared towards science that are undergrad-focused? I'll probably end up at some defense contractor after I get my PhD, I'm just curious.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:01:15 2015 No.7002583 >>7000605 >cousin finishing his Ph.D in theology at Notre Dame >27 I believe >married and has two kids already >wife works at rape/abortion/crisis etc hotline, I think Catholic affiliated I don't know how they are surviving.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:08:24 2015 No.7002596 >>7002583 27 imo is way too young to be married/have 2 kids.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:24:33 2015 No.7002611 >>7002596 I think that's totally fine. As long as you're capable of feeding that many mouths. I'd have no problem having kids at 25, and that's still 4 years later than my dad did. Sage for off-topic

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:35:15 2015 No.7002615

>>7001934
>private sector PhD
They know your only other job option is literally university shit, because N O O N E will hire you, because you're "overqualified". Even if you could make $60+k (a full 33% of a $45k wage) you'd be at the bottom 10 percentile of Electrical or Mechanical engineers. Say you managed to score $80, almost double what PhDs make elsewhere. That's still the average for EE or ME. If you could find some cushy position as a warm body with a piece of paper, you could make $100k+, but then you're literally competing against EVERYONE that employer knows, because they sure as shit know that it's a paper position, so will probably hire a woman or import someone for half the wages and call it empowering.

>>7002266
I'm an EE major with 3 years of open lab tutoring. Come at me bro.
>supervisor got me into tutoring last semester as a "student tutor", because their grant for professionals tutors ran out and I was technically doing one independent study class
Should they really be called "skills"? I don't consider eating a skill, why should I consider schmoozing a skill?

>>7002583
If both parents aren't being educated, it's not that hard at all. Too many people think you need 30k+ to survive, when 20k will do if you budget properly.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:40:48 2015 No.7002622 File: 19 KB, 295x244, 1411436851565.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002596 >>7002611 kids are not that expensive when they are so young. its when they start school when it gets expensive. also grandparents can help out when your younger.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:47:01 2015 No.7002630 >>7001951 I have heard things are terrible for plant biologists.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:47:18 2015 No.7002631 >>7002622 Why would you want kids at the prime of your life? esp. when you are trying to start your career.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:53:30 2015 No.7002638 >>7002364 >dork dork dork You always show up in these threads with the same old shit. Ivies run GS, Asians/engineers/people who finished high school calculus are dorks, and oh yeah, a WOMAN might tell you what to do at work someday.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 01:56:14 2015 No.7002641 >>7000605 Obviously tptb don't want academics reproducing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:01:55 2015 No.7002647 >Chemistry BS >fuck academia >want to go into private sector stuff what classes should I focus on (outside of the core ones) to make this possible?

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:04:32 2015 No.7002650

>>7002631
>Why would you want kids at the prime of your life?
My "prime of life" urge is having a woman by my side who absolutely loves me that I get to be with and fuck alot and have tons of kids while I work my brain off to create a better world for myself and for whom I care.

Are you one of those tryhards who thinks "prime of your life" means "trying to get as much money making resources as possible"?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:07:02 2015 No.7002653 >>7002631 People who make babies when they're 40 make retard babies.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:08:44 2015 No.7002656
File: 17 KB, 361x539, 1410452870355.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7002631
because thats when you are stong and felxible and can make adjustments. also biology is a bitch, especially for women. also lets say you have kids when your 20, your "free" again at 40 - thats when people typically become "boss" or make the findings of their career

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:13:26 2015 No.7002661 >>7002631 the other guy already said this but your chances of having a potato go up a couple of orders of magnitude by the time you hit 40

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:14:03 2015 No.7002662

>>7002411
>math PhD
I know a math Bachelor going for CNC Milling because her brother, halfway through a two-year program, got a job which makes more than their father did after working at a company for 15 years.

Note: She got fired from her carwasher position for being a woman, private email from the boss to the manager.

The other Bach in math I know kept failing his CPA or whatever financial exam, last I saw him he was buying toys at a Dollar Tree store for his son.

Who knows though, an "Applied Math" major on /r9k/ said she had a circlejerk job where she makes over $120/hour, full time.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:15:59 2015 No.7002664

>>7002661
>>7002653
This is literally the case. I forgot what year it is, but somewhere right around 40 a woman has the same chance of having birth defects as two cousins. Then the rates skyrocket where a woman at 45 has like 50% chance to produce broken children, or frequently none at all.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:19:36 2015 No.7002668

Yeah.
What they tell you is that you just have to be smart.
What they don't tell you is that smart is not enough. You have to be well-connected and have a very confident and preferably charismatic personality.
Even if you have the smarts and the charisma, if you're unlucky in the advice that you get, you will end up getting your PhD at an institution with poor connections. Then your career is basically over before it even began.
The best thing is to get to the most well-respected university that you can get to (regardless of how much you despise that motivation) and build up your confidence. Then you will have a chance of impressing people enough to get a job at a good university when you get your PhD.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:19:57 2015 No.7002670 >>7002664 my aunt had her daughter when she was pushing 40. Surprise, she is a STEM PhD! Anyways her daughter is fine, but she got amniocentesis during the pregnancy and she was ready to flush it if little A had an extra chromosome

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:20:01 2015 No.7002672
File: 105 KB, 768x1024, 1413396400954.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7002664
>>7002661
way before that. potatozone starts at 30 and becomes steeply rising at 35. also you would want 2-3 kids so you better start at under 30...
you can test downs now so its not that bad but stil...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:22:32 2015 No.7002673 >>7002672 >tfw I was born when my mother was 36 and father was 39 Glad I avoided being a potato

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:25:19 2015 No.7002676 >>7002672 i was born when both my parents were 35. my sister's two years younger than me. she might be retarded tho, the cunt's fucking dumb

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:34:49 2015 No.7002687 >>7002673 >Mom was 44 and Dad was 48 whew

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:37:51 2015 No.7002689

>>7002670
Ironically, women who succeed in STEM are usually more "man-like", which although a woman trending towards mannishness isn't a birth defect, usually leads them to be way better in STEM stuff.

STEM includes stuff like Math and maybe even Psychology and Nursing though, which would hugely skew the numbers if you limited it more to Scientists and Engineers. From the female STEM majors I've seen, they're usually sperglords or came from really good genes, but I'm American.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:48:05 2015 No.7002706 >>7000670 So wtf do I'm finishing my chem degree next year

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:50:44 2015 No.7002709 >>7002254 Plenty of jobs doing what?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 02:58:10 2015 No.7002718 File: 95 KB, 720x712, 127591890.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] so what family planning has /sci in general? the mormon way of having 4 wives and 20 children i hope. those STEM genes dont pass on by themselves...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:00:46 2015 No.7002719 >>7002718 why would you want a bunch of edgy faggot autistic babies?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:06:59 2015 No.7002726 >>7002718 sperm donation. Ramen isn't free you know.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:14:49 2015 No.7002730
File: 517 KB, 2000x1000, o-HOUSE-HUGH-LAURIE-facebook.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Ok, serious question here. Why not become a businessman during university and gradually make more and more money, so that when you go for phd you are already wealthy enough not to be a slave and be able to do whatever research you want? Also I've heard physicists/mathematicians are welcome in companies doing economy researches, so you've always got that going for you.
I know a chemist, who cooks some complex stuff for companies as a job, while postdocking.
Physicists and mathematicians would have to come up with something unrelated for business, but hey, if you pursue science path on the premise of being intellectually superior, surely, you'll think of something, right? Riiiiight?
Besides, there's always hustling scene.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:19:55 2015 No.7002734 >>7002718 Most people on sci can't get a girl to sit beside them, let alone have sex with them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:23:03 2015 No.7002739 File: 52 KB, 800x600, 1535539073.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002726 >>7002719 education is equally important >>7002734 for every autistic stemfag there is a caring and understanding nursing/psychoogy grill out there...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:27:02 2015 No.7002747 >>7002730 >hustling scene getting raped to death by niggers while locked in a concrete box, sounds good

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:28:07 2015 No.7002749

>>7002730
That leaves 90% of post-doc students without a job. Also, the people who can afford to go do something field relevant are always people who memorize shit way easier than other people, or already have a rich family taking care of them, which is how they got a nice job in the first place and don't have to work as hard for school.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:31:18 2015 No.7002758

>>7002730
>businessman
Every market has been taken over by oligarchies/cartels. There is no more room for new buisnesses; for every success story there are thousands of bankrupt saps.

People need to realize that the world is dead. There is no more opportunity, in anything. We simply do not have what our parents had; there is nothing you can do, nowhere you can go, nothing you can learn or say or be that will result in you being anything other than poor. You've been fed a lie since the moment you were born: that you can be successful and wealthy if you learn the right things and go to the right places. This was a lie. It was a lie forced down your throat by the people who profit off of selling you useless education.

Every market is saturated and dying. Every day, high paying jobs are replaced with minimum wage or close to it. You will be poor, and there is NOTHING you can do about it; it's not because you didn't pick the right field or you didn't get the right awards or anything else. You were just born at the wrong time.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:32:52 2015 No.7002760 >>7002168 Pls elaborate?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:36:40 2015 No.7002768 File: 18 KB, 161x128, 1357784058513.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002739 >>7002718 >>7002672 >>7002656 more pregnant pics pls

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:40:13 2015 No.7002771 File: 60 KB, 558x558, 1410273749062.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002768 its hot, is it not?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:48:00 2015 No.7002779 File: 38 KB, 540x719, hhawt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 03:54:12 2015 No.7002789 File: 28 KB, 421x595, hngg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002726 so you did donate? how does that work? do you get any info on what happens after you donate?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:19:51 2015 No.7002821 >>7002758 >poor >self sufficient >armed I'll take it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:26:22 2015 No.7002834 File: 74 KB, 600x900, hawt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002821 and ten kids. >many sons and many guns as the afghan says

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:31:55 2015 No.7002840

>>7002821
Smile, anon: you're in one of only a handful of generations that can say they lived through the end of a golden age. That's a rare distinction. Just think: the years before us are going to be remembered for centuries as the last great high point before the collapse. The years after us are going to meander through the rubble, hearing stories about the old times but only thinking of them as legends. You, however, get to live in the moment of history: you're living in the twilight of one of mankind's greatest eras.

You get to know what the Roman people felt like when the empire rotted away. You get to know what Baghdad's people went through after Genghis Khan had his way.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:36:23 2015 No.7002847

>>7002834
>not having four wives (all minorities)
>all working mcjobs unless one is on leave to give birth
>pay for kids shit with welfare (thanks Obama!)
>be stay at home dad and teach kids to hunt, fish, shoot, and mistrust the gubbermint
>send kids to school on scholarships as minorities, and let them pass as white on the job market
>statistically one has to get into college ("I'm just a kid from a poor diverse background blah blah)
>live on ranch compound and let the retarded kids feed your stupid doddering old ass gruel while the smart ones pay the bills
I thought people with PhD's were supposed to be smart.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:38:17 2015 No.7002852 >>7002847 *politics not college >>7002840 There's always opportunity anon. After the black plague died down, the social structure of feudalism was undermined and the seeds of the enlightenment were sown.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:39:45 2015 No.7002855 >>7002554 Universities actually do that?

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:46:06 2015 No.7002862 [DELETED]

I don't know where people going for STEM PhDs find the time to date. To be completely honest, most women at top universities in math/physics/cs are ugly. Like between 3-4 range. Maybe a 5 is the hottest in the department. Most guys seem to be more socially inept than even you are and it just seems fucking hopeless trying to even date at all. So, again. How are you suppose to date as a grad student in math/cs/physics when your degree is pretty much a repellent for the opposite sex?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:50:11 2015 No.7002868 >>7002852 And after the situation becomes so bad that people stop believing the lies the media feeds them, Europe and America will have periods of violent turmoil which will lead to a new golden age. You and I will probably be dead by then though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:50:47 2015 No.7002870 >>7002638 You are just as bad if you can follow one poster on this site.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 04:56:00 2015 No.7002880 >>7002226 cause high school teachers are scum source: sister is a teacher

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:02:00 2015 No.7002886 Best pharma job? Judging by this thread the research paths don't seem promising

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:04:06 2015 No.7002888 >>7002364 You're always in these threads. You're annoying as fuck, man. You talk about soft skills and "reading people" but you can't tell when your input is inane, trite and unwanted? Fuck outta here you IB/PE wannabe faggot.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:04:13 2015 No.7002889

How do people in PhD programs at top schools even date?

To be honest most of the women in top STEM programs seem to be ugly (between 2-4 range).

On top of that, the rigor of your program forces you to exclude any sort of social life. Any "friends" in the department are likely to be as clueless as you are.

Any sort of departmental socials just means you run into the same group of 2-4s women that aren't interesting.

I don't understand how men in STEM find women to date, unless these men were gifted with good looks with social skills to boot.

You guys make it seem easy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:10:36 2015 No.7002905 >>7000584 Now I'm sad

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:13:12 2015 No.7002909 >>7002889 >How do people in PhD programs at top schools even date? Biology has plenty of attractive women.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:17:53 2015 No.7002921 >>7002889 >How do people in PhD programs at top schools even date? I lift bro.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:24:04 2015 No.7002931 >>7002921 If you're ugly that doesn't really help.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:24:30 2015 No.7002934 >>7002931 yep, having a fit body doesn't change an ugly face

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:25:14 2015 No.7002936 >>7002931 >>7002934 lel, the projecting is strong stay jelly and ugly faggots

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:27:26 2015 No.7002940 File: 1.19 MB, 564x547, 1401570430572.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002847 >not having quadruples every pregnancy after some tinkering with your pals from the bio department

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:32:28 2015 No.7002945 >>7000610 Word hommie

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:39:54 2015 No.7002950 >>7002940 [WORRIED]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:42:49 2015 No.7002953 File: 29 KB, 426x341, 9c0[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002950 >>7002940 >almost got a girl pregnant >was scared that i'd be paying child support for life m-my career

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:43:49 2015 No.7002955 >>7002953 Normies need to fuck off tbh

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 05:46:21 2015 No.7002956 >>7002955 not normal at all, pretty fucked up actually. the idea of marriage and long term relationships in general make me want to retch. also a former drug addict

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 06:00:27 2015 No.7002968 File: 413 KB, 1365x2048, 1410278645019.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002950 w-why ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 08:13:14 2015 No.7003087 >>7002968 Because reasons Qt pic btw.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 08:29:16 2015 No.7003099 >>7001973 >50,000 I did a calculation and as a single without children and being not a house owner you'd end up paying around 33% taxes on an income of 50k usd so you'd still be quite well off compared to other countries

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 08:43:48 2015 No.7003111 File: 404 KB, 926x901, swede.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7002758 >selling you useless education >selling education

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 09:04:34 2015 No.7003130 File: 40 KB, 500x256, overloaded_train_on_bridge_india_delhi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7003111 FREE EDUCATION!? BRB GOING TO SWEDEN TO LIVE ON RICE FOR 5 YEARS THEN STRAIGHT HOME AGAIN!

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 09:21:11 2015 No.7003152 >>7003130 murrifat detected.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 09:21:37 2015 No.7003153 File: 408 KB, 500x274, tumblr_lrlhjaiXd31qcb58yo2_r1_500.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7003130 only for swedes and somalis

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 09:31:19 2015 No.7003170

>>7002730
Doing a startup is more work and risk than you probably realize, and isn't really compatible with full time studies. In order to be competitive in academia, you already have to devote at least 80 hours per week to it and think about research in your free time.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 09:38:11 2015 No.7003177

>>7001973
It's not like the taxes are just a money sink. I, and noone else, needs to have any health insurance. I didn't have to pay tuition, so I have never had any student loans. My parents are poor and I've never gotten any money from them, and I've never needed it. And my current research project is financed through taxes.

(oh, and I get $54k as a postdoc, and I got $39k-$46k during my PhD studies)

Glorious socialist sweden!

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:12:13 2015 No.7003231 What's the best subset of condensed matter physics to go into if you want to work in the industry? Materials? Semiconductors? Optics?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:21:25 2015 No.7003252 >>7002630 Depends on the area and your specialities. Someone who only knows benchwork is in a poor position, but someone with computational skills is marketable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:23:41 2015 No.7003256 >>7003231 It honestly doesn't matter what you specialize in. As long as you know the equipment and lingo, you'll get an interview. You don't have to tailor your thesis to a job description.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:24:17 2015 No.7003260

>>7002709
anything that values computational skills (and if you go through a PhD without learning computational skills these days you're fucking up hard), technical/scientific writing, science journalism, teaching, lab management, technicians, industrial research positions. there's probably more, but that's off the top of my head

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:29:53 2015 No.7003268 >>7003256 T-thanks man. What's lingo? Google gives me a programming language, is it important?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:32:50 2015 No.7003275 >>7003268 Jargon

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:34:45 2015 No.7003279

Serious question: is it even worth bothering with science if one isn't highly intelligent and passionate/hard working?

I find freshman courses hard already, it takes me longer than others to come to solutions and even though what I study interests me I don't have enough drive to maybe study 1-2 hours at best a day. I have the irrational hope that I will get used to studying and slowly manage to study more and more until I am able to study the entire day without difficulties.

How would I even be able to compete with highly intelligent people that enjoy what they do and can study the whole day every day?

I don't need a lot of money and doing research is the only thing I could imagine that would fulfil me. But I also have to confront the fact that I am just average. I may get a job like this but it seems like in science one has to be exceptional.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:34:51 2015 No.7003280

I'm currently pursuing a BS in Electrical & Computer Engineering.

My adviser was telling me about this program they have at my university where you can replace your senior elective courses with graduate classes and waive some stuff, effectively allowing you to get your BS and your MS in 5 years total. The real kicker is that you only pay undergrad tuition for the whole thing. So for me it would only be one more year and another like 4k in loans.

Should I do it?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:35:10 2015 No.7003282 >>7003268 It just means you know the terminology. To add to what I was saying, you could do materials, for example, but still take courses in semiconductors and optics so you're proficient in these fields, but not necessarily an expert.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:40:02 2015 No.7003290

>>7003279
the people who greatly succeed in science are the kind of people who feel really insecure when they realize there's a skill/knowledge they don't know, and they work in a field where they're legimitately interested in the subject to the degree that it's the shit they think about when they wake up at night.

if you're not that kind of person, it doesn't mean you can't succeed in science, it just means you're probably going to hate it/your life.

however, there's also positions out there that don't require that kind of drive, but still put you in science. lab managers, for example, aren't expected to have that kind of strong motivation, but they still enjoy what they do. they keep everything else in the lab running smoothly, and are used to get risky projects up and running in the lab.

for example, if there's some set of experiments the PI thinks might be useful but might not work, instead of having a grad student or postdoc work on it and maybe end up wasting six months, they have the lab manager pilot the methods so they know the techniques work in their hands, and then they train the postdocs/students in how to do that method.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:42:20 2015 No.7003295 >>7003282 >>7003275 Alright, thanks again. Last question: even in the same field, is it always true that experimentalist > theorist?

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:48:08 2015 No.7003310

>>7003290
Is it possible to somehow develop this passion?

If I think about it I am really only interested in the field I am studying. I enjoy reading articles on a pop-sci level. But the process of studying itself, all the math, all that complicated tedius stuff, I just can't make myself enjoy. I don't look forward to solving a lot of tedius dry problems but rather view it as a chore. Even though I know it's necessary.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:52:02 2015 No.7003319

>>7003310
it's not so much about developing passion as finding aspects of the science which you're passionate about. someone with passion for computational subjects can find something to like about biology even if they don't really give a flying fuck about how signal transduction works or what it's used for.

also, a lot of science is tedium and bookkeeping. like, a LOT. the tedious shit is what gives interpretable meaning to the fun stuff.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:54:20 2015 No.7003323 Because it's fun.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:58:53 2015 No.7003325

This kind of shit is what makes me lie awake at night. Literally first in my physics class at a large well-ranked university, but seriously considering just taking a software engineering job with my BS rather than going to grad school even though I could probably go to MIT/Princeton/Harvard because I could make around $50k starting with my BS, or make $35k 8 years from now after living in poverty to get PhD. Fuck

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 10:59:24 2015 No.7003326 >>7000671 All but nursing and accounting are STEM...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 11:01:53 2015 No.7003328 >>7000671 >engineering is outside of stem >literally part of the acronym

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 11:29:24 2015 No.7003366 >>7002760 I asssume they were shity lecturers

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 11:32:03 2015 No.7003378

>>7001968
what is your PhD that didn't lead to academia. i study physics and math as an undergrad and I'm still willing to go to grad school or maybe just a masters but I don't know what i'd study. my biggest interest is in theoretical physics but you know... doing that for a phd doesn't give me many options

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 11:34:11 2015 No.7003387 >>7001968 if you get a phd and dont go into academia or research you're fucking idiot

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 11:42:52 2015 No.7003416 >>7000660 >>7001014 Anon is right. That's a chem. major.

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 12:18:38 2015 No.7003485

>tfw had a passion for math and physics
>tfw I knew that to be successful in those fields requires you to be in the 0.001%
>tfw settled from chemical engineering and minored in math
>tfw 50k internship and 70k starting after graduation with only a b.sc at age 22 ish

My family isn't very well off, I had to pick something that would put food on the table.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 12:44:39 2015 No.7003521 >>7003485 >50k internship I've done internships and how is this even possible? I'm calling bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 13:00:20 2015 No.7003541 >>7003280 Without any ob experience? No. Unless you're top percent a lot f places won't take you as a masters degree student with no experience

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 13:03:07 2015 No.7003546 >>7003541 The only requirement for the program is a 3.0 lol

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 13:05:18 2015 No.7003550 >>7003541 >>7003546 Excuse me. I read that wrong. Thanks for the response.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 13:13:33 2015 No.7003563 >>7002870 He makes the same post all the time (Ivy arts grads run investment banks, suck it /sci/ autists) and works "dork" into every one. It's not so much about following a poster as it is reading comprehension

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 13:46:42 2015 No.7003625 I understand that all of this refers to the situation in the US (or maybe even all the anglo countries), and not other countries.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 15:03:10 2015 No.7003760 Holy fuck this thread is depressing I guess the question that remains is, what are we supposed to do for chissake?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 15:11:59 2015 No.7003775 >>7003760 At the very least? Don't go into academia.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 15:15:21 2015 No.7003784 >>7003760 dont get a phd if you dont fucking know what you want to do with it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 15:20:21 2015 No.7003793 File: 168 KB, 409x382, tony orgasm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7000976 >Science is my passion, but Art fills wallets..

Anonymous Sun Jan 11 15:21:17 2015 No.7003795
File: 31 KB, 500x403, 1398011026555.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7002747
>>7002758
See, that's your problem right there. You guys have external locus of control, which basically means you give up everything without even trying, settling for stable, sucker life.

>>7002749
> Also, the people who can afford to go do something field relevant are always people who memorize shit way easier than other people
That pretty much can be applied to virtually anything. You can do fuck all without memory. But here's the thing. Why not work on that skill you know you will need, until you're better, than everyone else.
Besides, in the case of memory there's mnemonics, which is one of the greatest life-hacks ever.

>>7003170
Not unless you take a year or two off after finishing high school to study uni stuff and learn useful speciality-unrelated subjects, so that when you (now easily) enter the best uni for your speciality you are way ahead of everyone, have tons of free time and get guaranteed straight A's.

See, there's a difference between pure intellect (which can only be tested by maths) and functional intellect - which is pure intellect minus all of the emotional/laziness/instinctual rubbish and predicts individual's success and fate in general. You may be a maths genius, but if you have a slave mindset of a sheep - you'll be following and relying on others in one way or another instead of thinking for yourself, which will lead to constant failure and misery. Life problems are simple. It's emotions, that fuck with our logic processors, making choices hard and complicated.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 11 15:32:54 2015 No.7003826 >>7003260 Bio PhD, I landed a job with JP Morgan doing equity research for the pharmaceutical industry. Started at 85k on paper and got an extra 60k as a bonus.

Anonymous Mon Jan 12 00:09:47 2015 No.7004833

>majoring in science
>becoming a scientist
>ever
>not becoming an engineer and acquiring the perfect marriage between discovering wonderful things about our universe and being able to apply & construct things that are founded on those principles you've studied

You can research all you want, kiddo, but you're never gonna make anything cool with your lame science degree.

Engineering master race.

Anonymous Mon Jan 12 00:15:11 2015 No.7004841

>>7002855

yes? If you make something at a university, the university owns it and will sell it to the highest bidder in order to make tuition increases smaller

it's the same if you worked at a company, except they might not sell it and you could potentially get licensing cash off it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 12 00:20:17 2015 No.7004846 >>7004841 Sorry this just reminded me of communism and I threw up a little bit in my mouth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 12 00:20:45 2015 No.7004847 >>7004833 engineers are the wrench monkeys who implement the ideas real scientists come up with

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 12 00:21:58 2015 No.7004849 >>7004847 you'd fail out of an engr program bitch boy

Anonymous Mon Jan 12 01:01:01 2015 No.7004877

>>7004847

which is harder to do than actually researching things

scientists sit all day in a lab padded with grant money and get to do whatever the fuck they want as long as it gives a good proof of concept

meanwhile, engineers actually have to turn those concepts into products and devices people use. That's far more difficult than just playing around with theory, especially when if you fuck up people can die

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/sci/ - Science & Math