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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6958053 No.6958053 [Reply] [Original]

Is it possible for math constants like pi and the golden ratio to change if I were to enter another universe? I want to prove my friend wrong.

>> No.6958062

what do you even fucking mean by another universe? It's not a well-defined problem, so good luck trying to "prove" anything.

>> No.6958133

>>6958062
is it possible, in an alternate universe, for mathematical constants to change?

>> No.6958140
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6958140

>>6958133
>is it possible that this hypothetical scenario is possible within my ill-defined hypothetical context?

>> No.6958142

>>6958133
is it possible, in an alternate universe, that your question would make any sense?

>> No.6958147

>>6958053
fuck off

>> No.6958155

Better question for you OP:

Assuming we live in a false vacuum, would a vacuum metastability event allow for ratios like pi to be different?

I guess the root of the question here would be "are ratios like pi inherent to the fundamental constituents of the universe, or just to their current configuration as bosons?"

>> No.6958161

>>6958053
Just as possible as it isn't. Pondering the multi-verse is a fruitless task that gets no one anywhere. All theories relating to the multi-verse are non-predictive and non-observable, so the question has no answer.

>> No.6958170

>>6958155
*meant to say as bosons+fermions

Because a shift to a truer vacuum state could supposedly make even the stuff that makes up stuff not do the same stuff anymore.

>> No.6958182

>>6958155
>>6958170
>implying math constants like pi have anything to do with physics

>> No.6958188

>>6958182
Yeah, the only way I could see it affecting anything would be if they somehow discovered that spatial dimensions rely on quantum fields too.

As far as we know, only the actual matter and the 4 fundamental forces do, so it'd still be the same space. It's not gonna suddenly turn non-euclidean because of that.

>> No.6958204

Mathematical constants have nothing to do with the universe, they are based on ratios we define with our axioms of the real number set. Pi will always be pi, and Phi will always be Phi. In another universe, those constants may never be discovered though, because they do not apply to the inhabitants of that universe.

>> No.6958238

>>6958204
It's not so hard to imagine a universe where the ratio between the diameter and circumference of a circle is something different.

It's just not scientifically based that there would be such a place.

>> No.6958262

>>6958238
>It's not so hard to imagine a universe where the ratio between the diameter and circumference of a circle is something different.
I think it is. The definition of "circle" would be the same in any universe, mathematics is assuming things and then proving things from those assumptions, it doesn't matter what universe we're in, if I accept Euclid's Element axioms, pi is pi is pi.

Right?

>> No.6958267

>>6958238
What you're imagining instant a different universe, it's a different geometry, which can be obtained by using a different metric, for example.

Math is the same in all universes capable of housing human minds.

>> No.6958358

>>6958053
No.

>> No.6958369

>>6958238
L1 metric. Ratio of a circumference to diameter is 4. Pi is not 4 however, as while pi is defined based on Euclidean geometry it is independent of geometry as a constant.

>> No.6958393

>>6958053
Draw a 1000 mile circle on earth,
radius measured along the surface.
The circumference will be less than 2*pi*1000 miles

>> No.6958418

>>6958053
If you consider geometry on a hyperbolic surface, then yes, if you define pi as the number of radii in a circumference, pi can change, and is larger.

>> No.6958430

>>6958053
Pi is a definition, phi is a definition.

(correct) definitions of a number don't change

>> No.6958442

what if there are universes where circles are different
if you were there it'd look like a circle the same a circle looks like here when you're here
but space there would be different because the dimensions are different
like you know if you have two pieces of paper with the same picture on them
if they're both flat they're both the same in two dimensions
but if you bend one using three dimensions then the two pieces of two dimensional paper are now different
it'd be like that but with a universe altered by a 4th dimension that we can't observe because we're stuck in 3 dimensions
or maybe our universe is the altered one and the other universe is the normal one and ours feels like the normal one
idk
maybe pi would be different in a universe with 4 dimensions

>> No.6958474

What about a universe's C constant?

Could the speed of light vary from universe to universe?

>> No.6958484

>>6958474
The real question is would that even matter?

I mean, you can always go slower in smaller and smaller intervals, so there's always the same effective distance between C and zero in any universe.
It might just scale down with no noticeable change.

>> No.6958515

>>6958053
No, by definition it would no longer be a circle

>> No.6958816

>>6958155
>>6958170
10/10

>> No.6958929

>>6958053
irrational numbers don't exist

>> No.6959044

>>6958929
Exactly.
Pi and Phi don't even exist perfectly in our own universe, so they'd be the same way in any other alternate reality.

As in fictional.

>> No.6959529

>>6958442
Pi is a definition with a value, not a number.

Pi will always be the ratio between a circle's circumference and its diameter, because that's the definition.
>>6958474
Of course, it's the SPEED of light, a radically different universe would have different light.

>> No.6959538

>>6958929
>irrational numbers don't exist

b8

>> No.6959541

>>6959044
They don't exist because the building blocks of creation don't have an infinitesimal size.

You'd be mocked if you said hyperreal numbers didn't exist

>> No.6959561

>>6958929
numbers don't exist.

>> No.6959572

>>6959541
>They don't exist because the building blocks of creation don't have an infinitesimal size.

You are a very confused person on a number of levels.

>> No.6959581

>>6959572
>atoms aren't infinitely small
That means a perfect circle can only exist in theory you dumb high schooler.

>> No.6959630

>>6959529
>Pi will always be the ratio between a circle's circumference and its diameter, because that's the definition

I thought Pi is defined as Ppi/2 being the first root of the cos function?

>> No.6959647

>>6959630
Sinusoidal functions are derived from the unit circle.

>> No.6959649

>>6959581

Please be trolling.

>> No.6959654

>>6959649
Please go back to /b/

>> No.6959659

>>6959541

Both the premise and the logic of this post are wrong. Space is not discrete, and even if it was that would have no bearing on mathematics.

>> No.6959670

>>6959659
>freshmen

>> No.6959673

>>6959670

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but you are still wrong.

>> No.6959677

>>6958155
lel good one m8

>> No.6959680

>>6959673
>freshmen think they're always right because they have a 3.2 GPA in their glorified HS classes

>> No.6959689

>>6959647
I thought sin is defined as the imnaginary part of the exponential function and cos as the real part?

>> No.6960276

>>6959581
Right, because electrons don't exist.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110525/full/news.2011.321.html