/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.6820430]

ITT we think of new interpretations of shrodingers cat

[Anonymous No.6820439]

It's a thought experiment designed to draw attention to the amoral, sociopathic tendencies of physicists.

[Anonymous No.6820445]

we can confirm that the cat is dead if the poison kills it

[Anonymous No.6820453]

>>6820430

That the whole thing is BS.

The cat is EITHER dead or alive. We don't know which until we look in the box.

It's not that the cat is BOTH alive and dead.

And the idea that the universe divides everytime we decide to murder a cat or choose between the fries or the onion rings is just laughable.

The way people try to explain S's cat is a lot like when you tell a child that they could be President some day.

Sure... they COULD be president, but not f**king likely.

[Anonymous No.6820460]

It's an experiment formulated by autistic mathematics and physics who contributed nothing to society but feel important hiding themselves in some hard to learn equations.

[Anonymous No.6820463]

>>6820460
So what you're saying is that they're some kind of intelligent variant of philosophers?

[Anonymous No.6820465]

>>6820445
But if you only use a LD50, the cat would die from the poison or not.

[Anonymous No.6820468]

>>6820430

Stick a window in the side of the box.

[Anonymous No.6820472]

>>6820460
>hard to learn equations

>Shrödingers equation
>hard

>>>/highschool/

[Anonymous No.6820475]

You get inside the box.
That way you get to be both alive and dead as well as the cat.

[Anonymous No.6820582]

>>6820460
lol, /dumbass/ here, just derived that shit in class the other day. pretty simple if you're not dumb

[Anonymous No.6820587]

>>6820430
What if schrodinger's cat was actually created as a reductio ad absurdum argument and the person who came up with it didn't actually believe in the conclusion at all

There's a new one for you

[Anonymous No.6820620]

>>6820453
It's not really a many-worlds interpretation, it's a thought experiment highlighting the seemingly-obvious absurdity that particles don't necessarily have definite, intrinsic physical properties--rather their physical properties are probabilistic until measurement.

[Anonymous No.6820648]

>>6820587
Wouldn't that position him to factor in the appearance of the cat on AMCs The Walking Dead

[Anonymous No.6821032]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTMYNj2Ulk

[Anonymous No.6821038]

>>6821032
>Moves arm to rest on top of the chair
>Laughter

[Anonymous No.6821047]

>>6820587
I think that is the actual circumstance of its formulation, Schrodinger believed that copenhagen interpretation was absurd and used this thought experiment to show that.

[Anonymous No.6821048]

it's a co-isomorphic syntactico-morphic distribution of the design and actualisation phase of teleological evolution

[Anonymous No.6821060]

The cat CAN be both alive and dead. If the act of observing the cat affects the cat then it exists in both states....Can I haz photonburger?

[Anonymous No.6822273]

>>6820620
thanks

i've been struggling to understand this for a while but now its clear.

[Anonymous No.6822323]

>crtl+f
>decoherence
I'm sure you are all just a bunch of chemists.

[Anonymous No.6822327]

>>6820430
Think of a semi-transparent cat necro fucking a limp, lifeless other transparent cat who drank too much absinthe (and in the arms of the Green Fairy, was possessed to smash the reservoir glass with a ball-peen hammer, ass the postban attempts to push two king-size joints through the mail slot.

[Anonymous No.6822334]

>>6820439
I want you to know your post cheered me up.

[Anonymous No.6822340]

How did a thought experiment so stupid become so famous? It was literally created to ridicule quantum mechanics.

[Anonymous No.6822350]

>>6820430
A bitch is either a virgin, or she isn't.

You'll never know until you check.

[Anonymous No.6822355]

>>6822340
big bang theory LOL XDDDDDD BERBADINGA

[Anonymous No.6822375]

>>6820430
Have someone watching from inside the room with a gas mask, everyone outside the bunker will still be under the impression that the cat has a 50% probability of being dead or alive when clearly to another unknown perspective it is either definitively dead or alive. This thought experiment is shit

[Anonymous No.6822379]

>>6820453
>Bleeping the word fuck
The 4chan I remeber is gone

>yfw you can never go back

[Anonymous No.6822380]

Wayyy better interpretation

>I give you a ceramic piggy bank

>The bank has either intact or broken glass inside

>You have to smash the bank with a hammer, but smashing breaks the glass panel inside, so its impossible to observe an "intact" glass panel

[Einstein No.6822402]

>>6820430
Idiot's. A box can't maintain a coherent cat. As soon as the nucleon decays, the box will decohere and the cat's death will be measurable to the outside world.

[Anonymous No.6822429]

Decoherence is not a solution to the measurement problem. The two level cat system is still in superposition, it's just that those two states are now entangled with a massive amount of environment states. So if we trace out the cat states we get a diagonal density matrix. We still have no mechanism for interpreting the mixed states with the environment.

That's why this problem is best approached with a simple two level system like spins. Not a cat, but, of course the cat lets anyone attempt to attack the problem with zero mathematical rigor and think they are getting anywhere.

[Anonymous No.6822436]

>>6822429
> We still have no mechanism for interpreting the mixed states with the environment

Yes, we do. The wavefunction now has two uncorrelated branches that will continue to evolve independently.

[Anonymous No.6822438]

>>6822436
I should have qualified that statement. I meant a verified model.

[Anonymous No.6822453]

>>6822438
> We still have no mechanism for interpreting the mixed states with the environment
> I meant a verified model.

A "verified model" is impossible here. The independent evolution of uncorrelated, decoherent branches of the wave function is trivially mathematically true.

[Anonymous No.6822486]

>>6822355
ZIMBABWE XD

[Einstein No.6822491]

>>6822453
Theres actually a quote by Stephen Hawking that the many worlds interpretation is trivially true. And it is!

But what laypeople (and even chemists/etc) fail to understand is that Many Worlds, Consistent Histories, and Hidden Variables can all be true. (Though obviously not the Copenhagen crap)

Many Worlds requires the fewest assumptions, since it's just the observation that the universal wave function is continuous (it never collapses).

Consistent Histories notes which branches we're on.

And Hidden Variables is equivalent to the statement that there exists a *nonlocal*, *locally nonconservative* potential whose gradient uniquely drives the system's Hamilton–Jacobi trajectory through the wave function branches that we're on. Indeed, for any set of histories, there exists a Bohm potential that selects those histories.

All of these have equal empirical claims and predicative power, though MW is the the most concise.

[Anonymous No.6822498]

>>6822491
>Many worlds
>predictive power

Come back when you have a reasonable explanation for the Born rule.

[Einstein No.6822524]

>>6822498
>> Come back when you have a reasonable explanation for the Born rule.
> high school

The Born rule is explained by the statistics measurement, which is in turn explained by decoherence. Come back once you've taken undergrad quantum.

[Anonymous No.6822531]

>>6822524
>implying that's an explanation
lel manywoowoos

[Anonymous No.6822537]

>>6820453
>f**king
What the fuck are you fucking doing writing fucking this fucking way?
Are you fucking retarded you stupid motherfucker?

[Anonymous No.6822539]

>>6822537
RUDE

[Anonymous No.6822550]

>>6822498
>>6822531

[Anonymous No.6822552]

>>6822550
It's pretty embarrassing that manywoowoos can't explain any observable fact.

[Einstein No.6822560]

>>6822531
Neither Many Worlds, Consistent Histories, nor Hidden Variables explain anything that quantum mechanics or quantum decoherence don't already explain, because they are interpretations, not theories. In fact, they're closer to theorems.

As for explaining Born's rule:

>DECOHERENCE, EINSELECTION, AND THE QUANTUM ORIGINS OF THE CLASSICAL (2003)
>Wojciech Hubert Zurek

...envariance sheds a new light on the nature of ignorance of the state of the system due to quantum correlations with the environment, and leads to Born's rules and to the reduced density matrices, ultimately justifying basic principles of the program of decoherence and einselection.

>Born's rules derived from decoherence, on p.36 of the original paper

Born's rule can be derived from the basic postulates of quantum mechanics applied to large systems, independent of any interpretation, and thus requires no other explanation.

Again, quantum mechanics as seen through MW, CH, or HV makes equivalent empirical claims.

[Anonymous No.6822658]

>>6822560
Okay, for this to work in the context of many worlds, you need to assume that every possible subsystem of the universe has its own set of "worlds" (quantum states which form a basis). Zurek's envariance argument then tells you what the worlds are (a natural preferred basis) and their probabilities. Different subsystems of the universe will have different and in general incompatible (having world 1 in system A and world 2 in system B does not mean there is a world 1+2 in system A+B) sets of worlds. I think this works out but it's a stretch to call it the simplest.

[Anonymous No.6822666]

>>6822658
You need a measure over the subsystems, although I suppose we can just pick one. Maybe there's a good argument for a particular measure.

[Anonymous No.6822727]

[Anonymous No.6822739]

>>6822727
That nun bitch looked as pissed as I am at this terribly wrong explanation.

[Anonymous No.6822753]

>>6820648
lel

[Anonymous No.6822767]

>>6820430
>ITT we think of new interpretations of shrodingers cat

It's actually a lemur.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/madagascar+cat

[Anonymous No.6822790]

What is outside of the realm of imagination is prone to interpretation of the unknown. The reality is not bound by the observation of the mind thus rendering the Kopenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics futile. You're all stupid dumb fucks!

[Anonymous No.6822897]

>>6822739
>That nun bitch
lel