[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 7 KB, 444x263, lightflash.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6750576 No.6750576 [Reply] [Original]

So how do we go faster than the speed of light?

>> No.6750577

>>6750576
Physicly or information-wise.

>> No.6750578

>>6750576
We don't

/thread

>> No.6750579

Your mind travels faster than light. Also your astral projection travels faster.

>> No.6750587

>>6750576
We don't.
Space does.

>> No.6750588

>ITT fucking idiots

You move space around you.

No matter can go the speed of light, it's impossible and even if we could it would be very unpleasant for a living creature.

>> No.6750602
File: 41 KB, 435x435, 1405884109880.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6750602

>>6750579

>> No.6750610

>>6750578
We don't yet or we don't ever?

>> No.6750612

>>6750579
But is this a real thing? I don't think it counts.

>>6750588
How do they bend space around you?

>> No.6750615

>>6750610
We don't ever.
Ever.
EVER.
It cannot be done. This isn't a lack of understanding, or lack of energy production, it's strait up impossible.

>>6750612
>negative mass

>> No.6750618

>>6750576
It's impossible. Correct me if I'm wrong; but just getting to the speed of light is difficult. When you approach the speed of light, you might be at 99.9%c one second then 99.99%c the next. As you approach the speed of light, your mass approaches infinity. And so does the force required to accelerate you. That's the problem.

>> No.6750619

>>6750576
Easy, you don't try t beat it, you just get ahead, via worm holes. There are things faster than the speed of light, we just don't have the tools necessary to find them because, well, they're fucking fast. The whole E=mc2 thing is just a bandaid over a cut that works until a better solution is found. Light is not the fastest thing in the universe, its just the fastest observable thing in the universe.

>> No.6750620

>>6750619
Faster observable thing, or faster known thing. Who knows.

>> No.6750622

>>6750618
This guy is correct.
An infinite amount of energy is required to accelerate a massive particle to the speed of light.

>> No.6750625

>>6750619
>tachyons
>moving forward in time
Pick one.

>> No.6750627 [DELETED] 
File: 25 KB, 210x305, 1387937399601.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6750627

If it takes an infinite ammount of energy to move a particle the speed of light then how come it takes only a double AA battery to move light at the speed of light?

Check m8 christans.

>> No.6750630

>>6750627
>photons
>having mass

>> No.6750633

>>6750627
Funny that that guy is an atheist.
>>48597187

>> No.6750634

>>6750633
Whoops. Thread's dead. Nevermind.

>> No.6750639

>>6750630
Well they have energy. So they have a potential for mass. They just don't have the properties that mass had.

>> No.6750641

>>6750639
Exactly.
They don't have mass. Period.

>> No.6750642
File: 114 KB, 780x749, 1388960349795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6750642

>>6750641
>They don't have mass. Period.

>> No.6750643

>>6750642
So show me a massive photon.

>> No.6750646

Well if we can't go faster than light, how the fuck do we bend space-time?

>> No.6750649

>>6750646
http://arxiv.org/abs/grqc/0009013

>> No.6750653
File: 109 KB, 1040x746, celebs---penn-jillette-1040cs010512.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6750653

>>6750643
I showed your mom my massive photon but her physical properties couldn't take it as I smashed her at the speed of light.

>>6750646
We throw your mom into space, if her girth was wide enough to bend her double layer leather belt she can bend space time easy.

>> No.6750658

>>6750653
I mean, I know you're just trying to rustle me, but that's going to take an infinite amount of trolling until you show me a massive photon.

>> No.6750660

>>6750649
Haha, I've already read Dune. But how the hell do you generate the energy to do that? Let's assume gravitons are a thing, if they exist they aren't susceptible to magnetic or electric field so how would we manipulate them?

>> No.6750663

>>6750660
If I knew, I wouldn't be sitting on this god forsaken rock shitposting on the chans.

>> No.6750670

>>6750663
You'd be chillin' with the Padishah emperor talking about Lynch's shitty adaptation or something.

>> No.6750676
File: 22 KB, 600x386, dogstar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6750676

>>6750670
Actually...

>> No.6750677
File: 1.04 MB, 5079x3386, 1407710394097.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6750677

>you will never find a spice like substance that can help fold space time and enhance your mental abilities.

>> No.6750699

>>6750576
you can, play or create a game

>> No.6750714

First we need to come up with a model of modern physics that is both better than general relativity and allows for ftl travel.

>But what if we never do?
Then we never will.

>> No.6750721

>>6750630
>>6750641
>>6750643
Photons have energy-mass. Which is apparently the same stuff since it can be converted back and forth. They don't have rest mass, and there is no mass term in our description of the delta momentum interactions light has with stuff, so while in a way it's correct to say that light has mass if we're being ultra literal you're right. I don't know what that other guy said though so I don't know if he was wrong.

>> No.6750724

>>6750630
>>6750641
>>6750643
>>6750721
Actually let me just say in a way you are definitely wrong because e=mc^2 and I'm pretty sure the way in which you are right isn't what you were talking about, so I'm still giving you an F on your final project.

>> No.6750725

>>6750721
>energy-mass

>> No.6750937

>>6750615
>This isn't a lack of understanding, or lack of energy production, it's strait up impossible.

You just need exotic matter with negative mass.
If dark energy exists in a form that can be harnessed, that could be exploited.

That's a lot of motherfucking ifs though.

>> No.6750943

>>6750937
None of that will make matter travel through spacetime faster than the speed of light.

>> No.6750947

>>6750943
no. but it will allow you to move an inertial reference frame.

we need a better term for it than "faster than light"

>> No.6750950

>>6750947
I agree, we do need a better term.
We don't actually have a word for "moving space".

>> No.6750951

>>6750947
say you have that inertial reference frame that's moving, relative to you, at a speed faster than light

how would you observe the object inside it? what would happen if it turned a light? what kind of fucked up lensing would occur?

>> No.6751058

>>6750615
>1900
>Flying can't cannot be done. This isn't a lack of understanding, or lack of energy production, it's strait up impossible.

Yet 69 years later we're on the moon.

Guess what, motherfucker, technology advances exponentially. FTL travel will come eventually providing we don't destroy ourselves first.

>> No.6751101

>>6751058
I hope you're joking.

In case you're not: Physicists never said it was impossible to fly. Flying works perfectly under newtonian or modern physics.

>> No.6751137

>>6751058
Never was flying impossible. it was just that nothing known to human machinery today can provide a thrust enough to keep a man afloat off gravity.

Phsyics has always allowed flying. Newton himself had an idea of a cannon ball, flying . and eventually orbiting the earth at 1600s, with enough velocity. where is your evidence that people claimed flying is straight up impossible?

>> No.6751139

>>6751137
EDIT:

it was just that nothing known to human machinery THEN IN THE 1900s can provide

>> No.6751150

>>6751058
Lighter than air craft already existed for about a hundred years at that point. Birds some time longer still.

>> No.6751169

>>6751058
I know they said the same thing about breaking the sound barrier, but not actual flight. We're gonna' need some source on that, anon.

>> No.6751175

>>6751058
>exponentially

thatworddoesntmeanwhatyouthinkitmeans.jpg

>> No.6751194

>>6751058
It's not a technological problem. It's a physical one. It cannot be done. We'd have better luck trying to copy Dune. And fuck knows how we'll manipulate space itself.

>> No.6751199

Quantnum entanglement

>> No.6751226

>>6751194
This.

Travelling at, or > the speed of light will warp and fuck up reasoning, it will destroy concepts of cause and effect.

>>6751199
quantum entanglement, again, is not evidence of FTL, its just simple demostration of conservation laws. You can't influence the results, the results being by definition random, and therefore you can't travel, or send encoded information faster than light.

>> No.6751243

In the strictly literal sense of 'moving', as in 'having a velocity relative to some inertial frame of reference', it is impossible according to our current understanding of physics.

However, there are viable ways, according to general relativity, to make 'shortcuts' through space time to locations outside your flat space light-cone.

This shouldn't surprise us however, since we are not violating any laws doing that, we are merely taking a shortcut.

Think of it this way: We know that gravitational fields can cause light to bend. Say I want to reach a star system that is 4 light years away from me. But before I start my journey, I shoot a photon to a neutron star which is 50 ly away in such a way that it would sling from that neutron star back to my destination. Obviously that journey would 100 years. If I can reach that star in less than 100 years, have I traveled faster than light? No, I have merely taken a shorter route.

>> No.6751246
File: 164 KB, 1000x800, 1393736407286.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6751246

>>6750579

>> No.6751257

>>6751243
But the problem is how the hell do you take this shorter route? Moving close to celestial bodies that have warped space around them isn't enough to make it viable. You'd have to form what could only be called a "Gravity beam" in front of you to warp the space in front of you.

>> No.6751276
File: 17 KB, 535x217, jet light.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6751276

>>6750576

>> No.6751350

>>6751243
you're comparing the displacement covered by a photon, with the shortest distance between two points.

you still can't travel faster than light.

Travelling faster than light means, if you were to compete with light over a same displacement, you will win light.

>> No.6751429
File: 96 KB, 630x420, gene simmons.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6751429

Drop feathers, observe the speed they fall. This is the speed of feathers.

Feathers are light.

feathers = light, therefore speed of feathers = speed of light

Drop a rock, and drop some feathers. Notice that the rock falls faster than the speed of light.

To go faster than the speed of light, you must become rock.

Gene Simmons is faster than light.

Q.E.D.

>> No.6751449

>>6750610
Never ever ever never ever forever never

>> No.6751461

>>6750622
I understand the concept, but isn't it kind of odd to think that an INFINITE amount of energy is required to reach a finite speed?

>> No.6751462

>>6751429
Checkmate, atheists.

>> No.6751469
File: 47 KB, 640x353, warp_drive_starship-640x353.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6751469

>>6750576
To all the naysayers...

First off, physics is in its infancy. We only recently discovered, (within the lifetimes of half of this folks on this board, no less) for our model of the universe to hold water, about 90% of it has to be made up of stuff we'd never seen, with properties unlike anything we'd ever detected - that's a pretty huge misunderstanding. Science, as we currently define it, has been around for less than five hundred years, and modern laboratory science even less so. We know nothing John Snow.

But, let's assume we know everything.

We can theoretically warp space. Yes, the energy needs are pretty nasty, and how to do it without destroying the craft involved is a bit iffy - but it's theoretically possible - every bit as much as machine flight was theoretically possible in the early 1800's. Suffice to say, the technology curve is not what it used to be. Indeed, it's so steep now, no individual can keep up with it anymore - even if most of it seems to be going to iPhones, as it seems we're just about genetically incapable of collectively thinking more than a generation ahead.

...and even if it turns out that we absolutely can't beat or work around the FTL problem - that doesn't mean we can't colonize other worlds. We just need self sustaining colony ships, suspended animation, and/or to genetically beat the mortality problem or reduce our consumption needs, all of which are things on the visible technological horizon.


So let's ignore these flat earth folks, move on, and save the story of life on Earth by planting its seeds abroad. After four global extinction events, if we evolved for any destiny at all, if we have any objective purpose, this is it.

>> No.6751476

>>6751429
This is a good example of renormalization; you see, the speed of light is feathers only when scaled to feathers = light, which is a subjective analysis. You see it would take infinite energy to go the speed of light, but because we can put it on a scale we can turn the infinity into feathers. This is also why quantum mechanics is a hoax, but that's another rabbit hole.
This same concept can be applied to dinosaurs. You see, everything was bigger in the days of dinosaurs - so on our subjective scale a dinosaur is light. Since feathers are light, we can conclude that all dinosaurs had feathers, and since everything is bigger in texas, we can also conclude that texas is dinosaur is light is feather, all of which are slower than gene simmons.

>> No.6751481

>>6751461
You THINK its finite. Your mathematical numbering system says it is, but number systems and notation are made up, arbitrary.

The problem being that the universe is that we live in a sphere of information, that is limited by the speed of light.

If you traveled at that speed, you would touch the front part of that information sphere. If you rode on a spaceship at the speed of light, you will not know what you're travelling into, no information in front of you will reach you.

it breaks causality. spacetime moves at the speed of light.

>> No.6751484

>>6751481
>breaks causality
Not that both GR and Hawking radiation don't allow you to break causality in a dozen different ways. ...and not that you need to actually break the speed of light (or causality), to effectively circumvent its limitations.

>> No.6751512

>>6751469
>warp_drive_starship-640x353.jpg
>the ship's body design
That's the coolest concept of a football I've ever seen - it could totally revolutionize the game. Quick, sell that idea to the NFL before it's too late.

>> No.6751538

>>6751512
Suspect it'd result in XKCD related:
https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/

>> No.6751567

>>6751538
>A careful reading of official Major League Baseball Rule 6.08(b) suggests that in this situation, the batter would be considered "hit by pitch", and would be eligible to advance to first base.
Fucking LOL. That was a good read - thanks for that.

>> No.6751579

>>6751169
That's a myth. There were aerodynamic models at the time that predicted air pressure on an object would approach infinity as speed approached mach 1 but the physicists of the time understood the limitations of the model and that it was only accurate up to about mach 0.8. The term "sound barrier" was only in reference to the fact that it was a speed we hadn't yet reached.

>> No.6751606

>>6751476
You tried to be funny, but you weren't.

>> No.6751613

>>6751484
How does GR break causality?

>> No.6751690

>>6750576
dive into a black hole where relativity gets fucked as everything travels beyond light speed

>> No.6751694

>>6750576
What if we could manipulate the higgs field to remove mass.
Would FTL become much more plausible?

>> No.6751696

My biggest problem with people on /sci/ that act like the standard model is accurate.

>> No.6751701

>>6751696
But everyone dicksucks anything handed to them in academia.
Thats why people like Aristotle(the originator of the retarded idea)/Galileo/Da Vinci believed in impetus. Something that could be disproven by a child throwing a ball/discus or a fountain in Greece.

>> No.6751706

Causality is not necessarily an actual thing.

>> No.6751721

If gravitational waves travel at the speed of light. would it be possible to use a gravitational wave like a ocean wave to propel yourself somehow at the speed of light?

>> No.6751771

>>6751721
It's my understanding that gravitational waves are mechanical in nature, such as sound/compressional waves are, meaning that they wouldn't travel at the speed of light - likely not even close. Although they wouldn't be as fast, they would still be mechanical waves(again, from my vague understanding), meaning that they could potentially/theoretically manipulate/move physical matter. While that may be the case, it would me most likely that such matter would have to be particulate, if not atomic for any discernible propulsion to be observed. To construct a craft which would 'ride' on such waves, and be able to carry significant mass - while an entertaining idea - is unlikely plausible.

>> No.6751784
File: 132 KB, 777x374, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6751784

Going faster than the speed of light is impossible, and going at the speed of light is impossible if you have mass.
E=mc^2 is actually a part of the equation. The full one is...
<span class="math">E^{2}=m^{2}c^{4}+p^{2}c^{2}[/spoiler]
Basically, the closer to light-speed a mass-full object goes, the more energy it takes to bring it even closer to the speed of light.
It is mathematically proven to be divergent. It would take an infinite amount of energy (and more) to bring it to light speed, let alone surpass it.
It's mathematically proven to be impossible. If you're going to claim that it is wrong, you're going to have to disprove the mathematical foundations that you have about velocity at all.

>> No.6751793

>>6751784
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMIhxWRGNw

>> No.6751796

>>6751784
>you're going to have to disprove the mathematical foundations that you have about velocity at all.
Some of us believe that to be possible, just as >>6751579
>air pressure on an object would approach infinity as speed approached mach 1
While I'd hate to disprove such a great mind - I'd love to witness the results of such a proof.

>> No.6751821

>>6750576
The point is not to go speed of light. The solution would be a dimensional jump,
.

>> No.6751829

>>6750947
isnt it simple to say in 1 relative second you will move as far a light does compared to that second

>> No.6751852

>>6750576
Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMIhxWRGNw

It's only a few mins long and easy to follow.

>> No.6751859

>>6751852
>>6751793
>>6751784
Lol

>> No.6751865

>>6751579

there are spacetime models right now that predict that it is possible to shift an inertial reference frames recursively and achieve cumulative FTL information transfer relative to another reference frame while clocks from both remain synchronized.

>> No.6751867

>>6751579
>>6751865

PLUS, physicists today expect the relativity model to have its limitations.

>> No.6751872

>>6751694
no. you either have 0 mass, or non 0 mass.

either that, moving from one to another will kill you.

>> No.6751878

>>6751872
how can you have non zero momentum if you have zero mass?

church 1
boys 0

>> No.6751913

>>6751771
Gravitational "waves" travel at the speed of light - however static gravitational fields, effectively, alter the speed of light. The constant isn't altered, but it takes either more or less time for the light to travel through the well, or lack thereof, because there is, as a result, effectively more distance to cover.

>> No.6751917

>>6751613
Potentially, in more ways that I can list here - even if they are usually extreme instances. Quantum mechanics resolves some of these violations, but also creates others. (Such as Hawking radiation, in which energy is essentially borrowed from a future event.)

This guy wrote up descriptions of several possibilities, even if the thesis is a bit padded:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.0167v1.pdf

>> No.6753505

>>6750576
<span class="math">
E^2=(m_0c^2)^2+(m_vvc)^2
\\E=\frac{pc^2}{v}=m_vc^2
\\if\:photon:\:m_0=0, \:
\\else:m_0<m_v
\\at\:light\:speed
\\\frac{E}{\sqrt[]{m_0^2+m_v^2}}=c^2
\\{m_v}={\sqrt[]{m_0^2+m_v^2}
[/spoiler]

>> No.6753508

>>6753505
<span class="math">
E^2=(m_0c^2)^2+(m_vvc)^2
E=\frac{pc^2}{v}=m_vc^2
if\:photon:\:m_0=0, \:
else:m_0<m_v
at\:light\:speed
\frac{E}{\sqrt[]{m_0^2+m_v^2}}=c^2
{m_v}={\sqrt[]{m_0^2+m_v^2}
[/spoiler]

>> No.6753514

>>6753508
goddamnit
<span class="math">
E^2=(m_0c^2)^2+(m_vvc)^2
E=\frac{pc^2}{v}=m_vc^2
if\:photon:\:m_0=0
else:m_0<m_v
at\:light\:speed
\frac{E}{\sqrt[]{m_0^2+m_v^2}}=c^2
{m_v}=\sqrt[]{m_0^2+m_v^2}[/spoiler]

>> No.6753591

>>6750578
>/threading your own post
That's not how this works.

>> No.6753596

>>6751058
>exponentially
HOLY FUCK IN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS EVERYTHING IS GOING TO GET REALLY BAD

>> No.6753606

>>6751058
>what are kits
>what ara parachutes
>what the fuck is a bird
>holy shit, I'm a faggot please rape my face

>> No.6753695

>>6753596
This from someone surrounded by satellites and using the internet that requires them.

>> No.6754625

>>6751429
Heavy Metal is heavier than rock. Therefore metal is faster than rock.
Speed Metal is faster than both Metal and Rock.
Therefore if we can harness the power of power metal, we will be gods of speed.

>> No.6754629
File: 17 KB, 540x360, 1274043137538.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6754629

What would happen if a sun made of ice collide with a sun made of fire ( like our sun ) ?

>> No.6754633

>>6754629
yes

>> No.6754651
File: 154 KB, 600x800, Socrates_Louvre.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6754651

>>6754629
apiffany

>> No.6754663

>>6754625
What happens if the hardest metal, going faster than light, collides with the heaviest metal?

>> No.6754673

>>6754663
you get a mini big bang

>> No.6754676

>>6754663
That depends on the loudness of the metals and whether or not if Dragonforce are playing

>> No.6754690

What if the entire universe was solid matter?

>> No.6754747

>>6750576
Make everything else a different medium.

>> No.6754774
File: 163 KB, 250x70, 250px-Tachyon04s.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6754774

>>6750576
Ascend from your physical form and become a tachyon. It is your only hope.

>> No.6754804

>>6750576
pretty much an objects relative mass is always above its initial mass.
For an object to travel at light speed, its relative mass at light speed must be equal to the resultant mass of its relative mass and mass at rest
<span class="math">m_v=\sqrt[]{m_0^2+m_v^2}[/spoiler]
although this isn't exactly special relativity

>> No.6754808

>>6754804
Pretty much FTL is impossible unless you figure out how to remove an object's rest mass or most of its relative mass

>> No.6754836

If you can't go faster than a specific speed with a car or train you build a plane, leave the ground and its friction and fly faster.

Now, if space-time doesn't let you go faster than c. Just leave space-time.

>> No.6754847

>>6754836
The strong force and electromagnetism would still have to act on you or you would die
They are dependent on spacetime which is codependent with gravity

>> No.6754869

>>6754847
Could you create a "spacelet" with the properties of local spacetime and make it move outside the spacetime continuum? Like a float.

>> No.6754909

>>6750677
In the books was it ever explained how a spice does this? This is coming from someone that has never read the books. Was it actually a spice? As in like a powder or substance? I know it mutated people. So did it unlock vast human mental potential or something?

>> No.6754928

>>6751137
There are people who still think flying to moon is impossible.

>> No.6754930

>>6754928
>has never heard of icarus

>> No.6754941

Here is the deal: light travel at the constant speed no matter the frame of reference. So if you are on the spaceship and send a beam of light ahead of you, that beam would travel at the speed of light both for you and observer on earth. It's possible because the faster you travel, the slower is the time you experience. Those are facts that has been observed and can't be denied. Now do the calculation and see how much slower the time would pass if you were to travel at the speed of light or higher

>> No.6754944

>>6754869
Go away.

>> No.6754967

>>6754941
The speed of light is not constant cracka.

>> No.6754973
File: 31 KB, 500x378, 2b3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6754973

>>6754967

>> No.6755460

>>6750576
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

>> No.6755462

>>6751481
>spacetime moves at the speed of light.
no

>> No.6755479

>>6754869
You mean an isolated pocket universe?
I'm not sure about that.
I do know the only viable way of near lightspeed travel is to not be in motion.
Physical force/strong force if not present would lead to disintegration; if present would lead to being pressurized/pulverized by G-forces. Electromagnetism that allows organisms to be sentient and machines to work would ionize everything and the ship itself would be fucked if it stopped being present.
Unless we somehow gain control over fundamental forcefields we are restricted to normal spacetime interactions.

<span class="math">E=\frac{mc^2}{1+\frac{v^2}{c^2}}[/spoiler]
Is what limits the thought of even attempting this by brute acceleration-unless the equations for energy mass equivalence are expanded there is no straightforward way and if there is no manipulation of forcefields or warping of spacetime it seems nigh impossible

>> No.6755643

>>6755479
*
<span class="math">E=\frac{mc^2}{\sqrt[]{1+\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/spoiler]
fuck I hate latex

>> No.6755647

>>6755643
*- sign

>> No.6755662

>>6751696
I hate the faggots that just SHOUT NU-UH WE NEVERGUNNA DO IT too, but you have to accept there's a lot of shit supporting the standard model, even the latest LHC findings have been labelled dissapointing precisely because they support it.

>> No.6755690

You can travel faster than light...just divide by zero first

>> No.6755788

>>6750677
The spice doesn't actually fold space though. It just lets the Navigators see the future so they don't accidentally end up inside of a star or something. The math to calculate a fold space jump that doesn't result in horrific death is super hard, I guess, and they need to know if their formula is correct or not. They used to have robots that did it for them, IRC.

>>6754909
It doesn't really explain HOW it works, only that it lets certain people see the future (or maybe everyone; Herbert wasn't too clear on that).
The spice was worm poop, basically. It tasted like cinnamon. It was more addictive than supercocaine, and let people live a long ass time.
The vast human potential thing was partially the spice and partially a multi-generational breeding program designed to create Space Jesus. Sorta.

Read the book, it's great.

>> No.6755806

DMT

>> No.6755818

>only that it lets certain people see the future (or maybe everyone; Herbert wasn't too clear on that).
there's lots of little hints dropped here and there that everyone has tiny drops of prescience that can be enhanced by the spice - the Fremen orgies being a good example. also, the dune tarot mentioned in the second book, where the combined effect of lots of people looking just slightly into the future made it hard for paul to get a good reading of the future of his own

>> No.6755831

>>6755818
plus there's the whole ongoing theme of Leto breeding a greater degree of prescience into the entire human race so that no one prescient person can lock them into a future (we knew from book two that paul can't see guild navigators because of their prescience) and then dispersing them across the universe to spread the species

>> No.6755842

>>6750576
We already CAN go faster than light
We should be asking:
How do you go faster than light IN A VACUUM!

>> No.6755876

>>6755842
heh.

>> No.6756224

>>6755788
So I made a right choice when I stopped reading it midway. The further you go the more retarded it gets.

>> No.6756226

>>6756224
that's pretty rude... on the flip, do you even read hard science fiction?

>> No.6756238

>>6755647
yeah warping spacetime is the usually answer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

>> No.6756246

>>6750576

GUYS RELATIVITY FUCKS ME UP, PLEASE HELP MY TINY BRAIN TO UNDERSTAND

Okay, I'm aware of relativistic effects like time dilation and whatnot. How it would be impossible to travel around at relativistic speeds without fast-forwarding through time.

But, say, if these hypothetical space-bending craft like the Alcubierre drive actually work, and you manage to travel around at say, what would appear to be 5c to the outside observer, would you actually be traveling at that speed? I mean, wouldn't you essentially be traveling backwards in time?

What is the universal time measure, if there is one? Sure, I can look at the pillars of creation now, and despite seeing them know that they were destroyed thousands of years ago, but what time is it "there" right now? Does existence proceed at the exact same pace everywhere, and only the information traveling between spaces is jetlagged? If we were to use a hypothetical FTL space-foldy-warp-drive and go to the pillars of creation, would we see them as they are now, or as they were when the light was traveling to us before?

FUCK RELATIVITY IS WEIRD

>> No.6756249

>>6756246
neutrinos have half lives extended by their speeds, and photons are only stable for a few weeks (without accounting for relativistic effects) according to quantum mechanics.

Regarding time - no one knows. maybe you can relate it to quantum's 'no information can be lost' posit? I know someone has made the connection between time and quantum entanglement driven by entropy.

http://journals.aps.org/pre/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevE.79.061103

>> No.6756250

>>6756226
I'm currently going through the Mars trilogy. And guess what, I don't have to constantly wonder where the creature few times bigger than white whale gets its nutrients on empty desert. It would take more than one Freman to stretch one muscle of that monstrocity. Never mind the forces it's soft body have to withstand only because of gravity. Not to mention gigantic pressure that sand. It shoud be less of a worm and more of a squishy, wet sand.

>> No.6756251
File: 8 KB, 229x251, 1410494905916.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6756251

>>6756249

fuck man, why reality gotta be so weird?

>> No.6756255

>>6756250
i'm not keen on engineering and have little understanding of mechanics so my abillity to speculate on what a big biological tube can do or not do. Nor do I have the capacity to imagine it being able to move at a quick speed - i just do and I imagine nature being able to come up with something to withstand it. Just as whales can dive, so can worms? Also isn't it true that you can make a tunnel in sand so that the pressure disapates around you? Like how Paul survives the desert storm with the tent? Or would that collapse once it had been covered by layers of sand-on-sand?

>> No.6756261

>>6756251
its so fucking weird that the simulated realities shitbox theory seems to be gaining quite a bit of support.

>> No.6756264

>>6750937
The general public has a fundamentally poor understanding of what "exotic" or "dark matter" and "dark" energy means. None of the aforementioned topics can resolve travelling faster than the speed of light, in terms of velocity. It is disproven.

However, if a warp drive or some such other means of transportation were to come about then travelling faster than the speed of light is theoretically possible, purely by imagination.

>> No.6756267

>>6756255
>i'm not keen on engineering and have little understanding of mechanics

/discussion

no, there is not enough calories in the system to sustain any number of that large predators. If they were sitting still, were fed one fat fremen per hour or supplemented the diet with photosynthesis, then we can talk.

>> No.6756270

>>6756267
you never got to the explanation of the worms energy, but feel free to look it up and critize it should you.

>> No.6756275
File: 5 KB, 231x225, hue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6756275

>>6756261
Given the mathematical elegance of reality, I'd say it was coded by some 13 year old as part of an introductory java class.
And it's still here to this day, as a background process, that he forgot to terminate through task manager.

>> No.6756282

>>6751606
Oh nvm

>> No.6756284

>>6756270
Yeah, I've been thrown of by the "hey, look at those weird civilization/let's rid a giant worm the size of the boeing 747" transition. But it was already bothering me for some time with doctor who syndrome, going from "sure, I can totally see that working" to "wifi does what, nigga?!".

Would you care to explain how those worm supposedly work? I've heard there are people turning into trees in newer books so I guess it must be ingenious.

>> No.6756288

>>6756284
ahh don't think there's any trees involved in later books... not sure to what you're referring.

worms apparently sit around a lot of the time doing nothing; they have a symbiotic relationship with a bacteria that occupies a large portion of its mass. Beyond that biochemical magic! I don't remember to be honest, that's why i said read it and then criticize it.

>> No.6756290

>>6756288
Now you got me hooked. It's still probably bolox but it doesn't hurt to look it up.

>> No.6756297

Depends on how much energy you want to put into actually making these devices ha, just look how much we are spending on propulsion nowadays and seeing results we got like mach 11 or so with the scram jets and that was probably some millions, see what im saying.

>> No.6756298

>>6756290
i honestly loved the dune series and think it only falters in the fifth and sixth books... Which are still alright. Anything written by his son reads fanfiction; its quite painful given that it was both his father and mother's work (editing and diatribe).

>> No.6756327

>>6750622
>An infinite amount of energy is required to accelerate a massive particle to the speed of light.

you realize there's something off there. every particle has some sort of mass. there are particles moving at the speed of light.
below a certain mass, it's possible to reach the speed of light with finite amount of energy, above that certain mass it's impossible? doesn't really look like a very logical explanation and i bet something is being missed here.

>> No.6756330

>>6756298
So, this is fun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandworm_%28Dune%29

My favorite part is where water become toxic to water-based life-form. And oh boy, all those depictions of mass-equivalent of sequoia jumping 100m int the air, ho-ho. You know you are in good company when seismic activity is cause by the living creatures.

>> No.6756331

>>6756327
photons don't have mass

>> No.6756332

>>6756331
oh. well then.

>> No.6756334

>>6756331
possibly they're just being considered massless because it would violate the current physics model if they weren't :^)

>> No.6756367

>>6756334
Well actually that's how Einstein calculated the speed of light, i think from the formula. E = mc^2 where m=0

>> No.6756371

>>6756367
kinda the same formula for Ek=1/2mv^2

>> No.6756380

>>6756334
they could have a minuscule mass and only approach v=c. The actual law is not that light travel at the constant speed no matter the frame of reference, it's true for anything traveling with speed of light and, in practical sense, for everything close enough to speed of light to tell the difference.

>> No.6756401

So how do we go faster than the speed of love?

>> No.6756406

>>6751243
Science: Trying to find loopholes in rules you made up yourself
I find this humorous.

>> No.6756427

>>6756401
The only thing that fills man's hearth faster than love is hate.

>> No.6756431

>>6756406
>made up yourself
I want to find that motherfucker who though ever-raising entropy was a good idea a kick the shit out of him.

>> No.6756597

>>6756327

E=mc2

E=m

For m > 0, E gets very large very fast.

>> No.6756600

Find a way to get somewhere faster than the speed of light without accelerating to the speed of light. Information could also theoretically travel faster by using quantum entanglement.

>> No.6756606

>>6750576
We don't.

> /thread

>> No.6756610

if i have one object going at half light speed in a straight line
and i have another object moving at half light speed in the other direction on which i am standing

why am i not, in relation to the other object, going at the speed of light?

>> No.6756611

>>6756600
>Information could also theoretically travel faster by using quantum entanglement.

>> No.6756629

>>6756610
>if i have one object going at half light speed in a straight line
Its speed is relative to the frame of reference used to measure it
>and i have another object moving at half light speed in the other direction on which i am standing
See above
>why am i not, in relation to the other object, going at the speed of light?
You would not see it traveling at the speed of light. The speed at which something appears to travel is relative.

>> No.6756637

>>6750576
The conduit would have to be wider. We'd have to be in broader dimension of reality.

>> No.6756650

>>6756611
>two identical clocks ring at the same time even 20 light year apart
>hurr durr, Einstein was wrong

>> No.6756662

>>6756600
>>6756611

But only random information, you won't be able to send a quantum entangled eMail or anything.

>> No.6756667
File: 3 KB, 200x151, relv4.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6756667

>>6756610
then the one object would travel with velocity of 0.8 relative to the other object.

>> No.6756673
File: 981 KB, 342x239, fbd582dc-e177-423b-8410-65e2cde3a.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6756673

tfw we live in a holographic projection
tfw the speed of light is the maximum speed of the underlying simulation program

>> No.6756678

>>6756673
Thanks neo anymore red pills for me?

>> No.6756685

>>6756673
I'm supporting the simulated world hypothesis and your post gave me cancer. good job asshole. have a nice day

>> No.6756716

>>6756685

It's not simulated. It is engineered you twits. Check out some Hinduism.

>> No.6756722
File: 58 KB, 500x502, 1408978144688.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6756722

>>6756716
Your argument are overwhelming

>> No.6756793
File: 490 KB, 240x230, 816807ad-721c-42ae-b315-6373b6a5b.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6756793

>>6756685

you're welcome! hope you have a painful simulated death.

>> No.6756815
File: 2.68 MB, 400x225, 1391958416028.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6756815

>>6756793
>implying limplying in the simulation implies implying is not real because implying is a processor going wirr-wirr and not implying implying is real because it exist on the implied simulator

check-mate, atheists

>> No.6757538

>>6756246

anyone else have thoughts on this? i've been wondering the same thing

>> No.6757576
File: 62 KB, 610x343, Space-Engine-dust-ball-610x343.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6757576

>>6750576
click on a target and press g

>> No.6757587

>>6750576
we can't

>> No.6757720

>>6756330
>My favorite part is where water become toxic to water-based life-form.
water is toxic to sandworms because their bodies are made of tiny little things that instinctively try to encapsulate all water

it's toxic because their body literally rips itself apart trying to hold all the extra water around it, in the process spilling all the important guts and bits out into the desert

>> No.6757926

>>6750576
negative mass

>> No.6757966

>>6756673
Then it's even simpler, just rig the program to make the thing you want to move faster than light simply appear anywhere you want to have it. Alter it's coordinates. Cut it out from one place in the simulation, paste it anywhere else.

>> No.6758022

>>6750576
create a material with relative permeability and permetivity of less than 1.

>> No.6758025

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/ideachev.html

Here is a list of all the ways theorized to work around 'light speed'.

The most interesting to me being the negative mass drive.

My bad if someone posted the link before me.

>> No.6758026

there are ways to FTL without violating special relativity you sperglords

>> No.6758035
File: 6 KB, 200x212, df167dee-ffe3-43c5-ab8d-26a8f10db.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6758035

>>6757966

you could do that but then the signal would not move but jump to a different place, which is a bit of a cop out. the idea is that actual simulation would only allow for things to move through space at the speed of light, because the underlying computing can't calculate the movement faster.

>> No.6758045

>>6757966

See, but even that would have it's share of problems. Wouldn't it still maintain it's relative velocity if you pasted it? So then wouldn't it just fling off in one direction after you pasted it?

What would happen to the space in which the object was displaced? If you cut and pasted a certain geometric area, like a sphere, you'd leave behind a spherical vacuum (in the most literal sense, there would be /nothing/ there) in the place it was previously. That sounds like a really bad idea.

Then what if someone got their hands on the cvar controls, and decided to just cut out all the dark matter in the universe? Or copy-paste a neutron star next to earth? Or take all of the super-massive black holes in the universe and put them in one place and create a giga-black hole? Where exactly would you be able to draw the lines?

That would be a terrible solution.

>> No.6758065

>>6757720
if they store water that mean they need water to function. In cellular life water is inevitable, any solution reducing water/dry matter ratio below 1/4 would be wasteful even on Arakkis. Also, the product of cellular respiration is water, so it either has to be stored inside the worm or expelled from the body, being in contact with water all the time.

>> No.6758066
File: 118 KB, 1024x768, Blue_Screen_of_Your_Mom_by_DemonOfRazgriz323.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6758066

>>6757966
please, don't

>> No.6758067

>>6758035
>the underlying computing can't calculate the movement faster.
There wouldn't be any actual movement in the simulated space. The whole manipulation takes place in the underlying computing but not according to its programming. It would need to be a hack or exploit. If it was never intended to *actually move through space* faster than light then the only solution must be a hack.

>>6758045
>What would happen to the space in which the object was displaced?
You could just swap the places. If it's possible to cut/paste in one direction it could be done vice versa. You'd just alter the coordinates.

>Then what if someone got their hands on the cvar controls, and decided to [go bonkers]?
Well, if the universe is a simulation it might already be possible.

>> No.6758115

>>6758067
>tfw we are all in the VR playing the MMO game and you get banned for exploiting glitches to move faster than light

>> No.6758164

>>6758065
>if they store water that mean they need water to function.
i never said they didn't need water to function. i said that the placement of the water was important.

>water inside the worm
the worm's body is equipped to properly sequester the water until needed
>water outside the worm
surfaces never meant to be exposed to water, are

>> No.6758194

>>6758164
how does the water travel from or in the cell without coming in contact with cell? If surface doesn't need the water, it could as well be made of layers of dead cells, if it needs water, then it shouldn't be toxic for it.

>> No.6758197

>>6754690
It'd start to heat up under intense pressures. You'd end up having a universe-wide star.

>> No.6758204

>>6758035
You can move faster than light by bending spacetime around you. You remain static yet appear to be "moving" incredibly fast.

>> No.6758209

>>6758204
it's not really moving faster than light, you won't be moving at c relative to anything, you will be shortening the distance you need to travel. For outside observer you are still not moving faster than light

>> No.6758214

>>6758209
Do you have any articles about this it's an interesting topic and makes me hope we might be able to reach USS-Enterprise by the time the movies were set.

WARP DRIVE 5 MR. SULU. Lol.

>> No.6758224

>>6758214
It's the principle of general relativity. If there are some tricks that would allow us to jump from here to andromeda within 3 second on earth, you wouldn't be able to see the vessel moving above the speed of light because it's indirectly against the first and third law of relativity. Disappearing in one place and reappearing in other for instance wouldn't violate those laws.

>> No.6758229

>>6758224
Different anon, but wouldn't that have some kind of side effect?
I mean, space is sort of "springy" isn't it?
So, let's say our hypothetical warp drive folds/squishes/whatever space, to bring two distant points together, the ship pops over to the new spot... then what happens when the warp drive turns off and space goes back to normal?

>> No.6758233

>>6750578
You can't bread your own toast

>> No.6758259

>>6758229
First we would need to know what the space is made of. To answer that question we would need to ask theoretical physicist. 10 of them and let them hear each other's answers. Just don't let them notice you brought popcorn and lost your sides.

I would watch sitcom about it.

>> No.6758262

>>6758259
Yea, I'd watch that too.

>> No.6758266
File: 42 KB, 500x391, 1389601764686.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6758266

>>6750576
> So how do we go faster than the speed of light?

Simple. Catch light, apply saddle and ride it.
You can thank me later.

>> No.6758366

>>6756226
>implying something so fantastical is hard scifi

>> No.6759540

>>6758194
>it could as well be made of layers of dead cells,
that's what skin is, layers of dead cells

>> No.6759553

>>6751058
>technology advances exponentially
do you even moore's law?
do you even graph exponential graphs?

>> No.6759560

muh warp drive

>> No.6759938

>>6759540
It's not, at least not on earth. And if it's toxic only because worm can't handle the excess water, then vitamine A is toxic for humans because it clogs liver when you eat shitton of it. As a matter of fact, water is toxic for people too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

>> No.6760163

>>6759938
>It's not, at least not on earth.
you're a moron

as cells differentiate from the precursors in the lower layers of skin and proceed through to the upper layers of skin, they start producing fucktrucks of keratin and start dying

what's left at the uppermost epithelium is a layer of completely dead cells, with the fibrous mat of their keratin forming an ablative layer excellent at protecting against friction and other injury

and you're not proving me wrong here at all by talking about how things can be toxic with too high a dose.

>> No.6760180
File: 658 KB, 1000x1029, Skin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6760180

>>6760163
>skin is made of dead cells
>dead muscles
>blood vessels leading to nowhere
>neuroreceptors fueled by magic
>epidermis out of fucking nowhere

oh boy

all I'm saying is that water is not less toxic to people than to worms.

>> No.6760351

I have a very simple way of going faster than light
you can do it currently in any space craft
but there's a catch the only way to do it is to get sucked into a black hole.
now that you have achieved faster than light speed you enter the event event horizon and from there on I can't tell you what happens!
Some say you stay in a time loop forever!
Some say you are crushed into a unseeable 1D dot of densely packed matter.
Some say you get sucked in to another universe.
but all i can tell you is you are fucked.

>> No.6760441
File: 406 KB, 570x489, 1409728629116.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6760441

>>6760351
>>>/x/
into the trash it goes