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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6721486 No.6721486[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

How dumb is the stoned ape theory?

and if they ate them every day would they not become numb to the mushroom's effects?

>> No.6721491

>>6721486
Really really really dumb. Pants on head retarded dumb.

Hint: psychedelics don't improve visual acuity.

>> No.6721495

>>6721491
You haven't noticed things appearing with more crisp outlines and colours on things being enhanced on psychedelics?

>> No.6721497

>>6721491
but i heard it effects the language part of the brain

and psilocybin in small doses increases sex drive, making them mate more often

>> No.6721504

>>6721495
No. And the research McKenna alleged showed this, Fischer et al., said nothing of the sort. The study concluded that medium doses of psylocybin "alter perception". McKenna apparently read this as "low doses improve visual acuity". Apparently psychedelics don't improve reading comprehension either.

>>6721497
I can't find any evidence of psilocybin increases sex drive, and even if it does, that is not necessarily an evolutionary advantage. McKenna's is an amateurish understanding of natural selection at best.

>> No.6721546

>>6721504
I've noticed colour enhancement and more detailed outlines of things on just MDMA, which has only mild psychedelic properties

>> No.6721556

>>6721546
MDMA doesn't exist in nature. There are certain naturally occurring amphetamines in plants like khat, but khat is not native to the same areas early man developed in.

>> No.6721597

>>6721486
>and if they ate them every day
You're obviously too stupid to comprehend it.
>>6721504
Go to sleep, CIA.

>> No.6721623

gee i wonder how great of a "theory" it is when it's laughed at in every academic setting but popular amongst drug users with no science education

>> No.6721628

I want /pol/ to leave.

>> No.6721636

>>6721623
You know that politics kicked all psychedelic related research out of the universities for decades after the Spiritual Revolution. It was anathema to the hierarchical power structures of the time. The WASPs were terrified of their children turning to alternative spirituality and them losing touch with the next generation's metaphors. Profs couldn't talk about it, they couldn't touch it...

It's only in the past 5 or 6 years that research has started back up in earnest, and it's only a few trials. Johns Hopkins is doing some studies regarding psilocybin and autism

They're testing psilocybin in a lot of situations.

McKenna is still mostly full of shit, but he's a pseudoacademic that's intended to separate the wheat from the chaff, same with that Don Juan book. That' or they're true and the academics are all in a massive conspiracy to hide the truth because they are all invested in the current structures and the consequences of the spiritual revolution, psychedelic spirituality, etc. throws their world into disarray.
The intelligentsia used to laugh at Galileo, too.

Make up your own damn mind.

>> No.6721637

>>6721623
>people who have never use a little-researched substance (except for the CIA, who destroyed most of their research) with very subjective effects say, "no, this theory has no credibility at all, not possible at all"
pls go

>> No.6721639

>>6721486
It has nothing to do with mushrooms "evolving" the early ape's brains with "visual acuity" and everything to to with glossolalia and the emergence of language, as well as seeing classical psychedelic "fractal god visions" (whether archetypal or otherwise is another discussion entirely) and the emergence of symbolism, caveart, and spirituality in early humans, which popped up seemingly out of nowhere around the globe around 10,000 years ago. Terence had an ok idea but he went about it all wrong, bless his soul.

>> No.6721640

>>6721597
>>>/x/

>> No.6721645

>>6721637
>one needs to take drugs in order tell whether this idea is stupid or not
pls kill yourself

>> No.6721655

>>6721639
Forgot my name here for usage in this convo, but wanted to follow up on:>>6721636


Terence's famous quote of "psychedelics being illegal not because a doting gov. doesn't want you falling out of a window, but because they dissolve previously pounded in thought patterns and ways of life to show you your own true path to life" is completely obviously true. If everyone in the world were to sit down and do a breakthrough dose of DMT all at the same time, 15 minutes later we would all be on our way to a ecotopia. There might be some uprising from religious radicals who just saw their God/gods call to them as to "who was right" but they would quickly be shut down by more rational people who cede that any psy deities were either archetypal in nature or simply 4d hyperbeings who decided to show themselves to the earthlings in their preferred "godly garb" (though to be honest if it's of the other, they would know the entire Earth is doing DMT simultaneously and do something "special" for the occasion)

>> No.6721661

>>6721495
>>6721546
Just because you FEEL like you see things better while on drugs doesn't mean you actually do.

>> No.6721667

>>6721661
There's certainly more pattern recognition, and definitely more saturated colors. Idk about crispness but my eyes are pretty nearsighted, though, whenever I get really close to a wall on psys the fractal nature of the spackle/paint on the wall becomes far more evident.

>> No.6721670

>>6721645
>it's okay to discredit a theory based on lack of refined research
pls go play in traffic

>> No.6721675

>>6721670
>I'm criticizing the theory based on it lacking research rather than it opposing and misrepresenting research
You sure are one big faggot.

>> No.6721696

>>6721655
>is completely obviously true
You mean completely obviously false. This is basically the definition of a persecution complex. "The government is just trying to keep me down because I have a special truth!".

>If everyone in the world were to sit down and do a breakthrough dose of DMT all at the same time, 15 minutes later we would all be on our way to a ecotopia.
I bet you really believe this, retard.

>> No.6721710

>>6721696
No, it's not about "special truths". Psys allow you to reach deep down into your Self, who you really are inside, and find out what's best for you. The more introspective ones allow you to really itch and scratch your mind for answers pertinant to YOURSELF, allowing you to find your own path through life. Which coincidentally usually doesn't involve sitting at a desk 9-5 wasting away waiting for your next bathroom break. It also has nothing to do with astral DMT breakthroughs into higher planes of existence btw ;D

>I bet you really believe this, retard.
I'm sure there would be some like you trying and crying that "it wasn't real, it's just your brain frying!" but then again you're not a psychonaut are you?

>> No.6721729

>>6721645
If you don't have any experience, you have no experience.

So stop bullshitting about stuff which you know nothing about. You're only being a good little boy or girl, doing only what your mommy and daddy told you to do.

>> No.6721732

>>6721655
>DMT
>simultaneously
>doing high dose DMT and still having linear temporal models
>2014
;)

>> No.6721734

>>6721696
Step 1) Respect other people's religions.

Step 2) Actually live in a free America.

Step 1 hasn't been true in my lifetime. Get your damn hands off of my sacred spirituality. I cannot practice behavior in line with my beliefs about reality without risking incarceration and disenfranchisement.

I can't grow a plant.

It is illegal to grow plants. Do you get how fucking insane that shit is?

>> No.6721744

>>6721729

>give yourself brain damage and find out the truth!

>> No.6721752

>>6721744
[citation needed]

>> No.6721757

>>6721752

people who use psychedelics believe in things that don't exist that their mind conjured that they also can't explain properly

ERGO

people who use psychedelics are brain damaged

>> No.6721762

>>6721710
>No, it's not about "special truths". Psys allow you to reach deep special truths.
This is how stupid you sound.

>> No.6721763

>>6721757
>believe in things that don't exist that their mind conjured that they also can't explain properly

Like what?

>> No.6721764

>>6721757
A circle is a thing that doesn't exist that is only an idea in people's minds, but is a topic of regular discussion in academic settings.

Why is this any different?

You're just a disinfo agent, or prejudiced bigot who is so afraid to break the law that you lash out at the people whom have the courage to actually explore this amazing reality which we share with full gusto.

>> No.6721765

>>6721762
>>No, it's not about "special truths". Psys allow you to reach deep PERSONAL truths.

You're reading comprehension is just shit mate.

>> No.6721768

>>6721729
You haven't experienced a hammer to the head, so how do you know it's a stupid idea? Try it!

>> No.6721772

>>6721764

a circle has a mathematical definition. people don't just say "bro alright.. its like roudner than round but i cant just EXPLAIN it, you have to see if for yourself"


>>6721763

stoned ape theory and shit like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-circuit_model_of_consciousness

>> No.6721773

>>6721757
There hasn't been a codified language of psychedelic inquiry because it's an underground practice. It's not something that can be easily explained, but has a lot of art, music, and writings about the subject that resonate with the people that are initiated into the experience.

Sorry. You actually won't understand, not really, unless you try it.

>> No.6721780

>>6721734
It's one thing to be against drug prohibition, it's a whole other thing to claim drugs are prohibited because the man is just trying to keep you from knowing your True Self or whatever new age idiot crap..

>> No.6721785

>>6721764
>You're just a disinfo agent, or prejudiced bigot who is so afraid to break the law that you lash out at the people whom have the courage to actually explore this amazing reality which we share with full gusto.
...And this is why no one takes you or your ideas seriously.

>> No.6721787
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6721787

>>6721655
>more rational people who cede that any psy deities were either archetypal in nature or simply 4d hyperbeings who decided to show themselves to the earthlings in their preferred "godly garb"

Sounds rational to me

>> No.6721789

>>6721772
1) First off, most people do just say stuff like that, and when you think about it, the basic definition rests on a nonterminating number, an irrational number that doesn't have a precise decmial definition except in relation to the ratio of the figure... 3.1415... is the mathematical equivalent of "bro it's rounder than round"

2: The 8 circuit model of consciousness is from Timothy Leary, who was a PhD working at Harvard before being fired and defamed.

His theories weren't able to be tested because the feds made acid illegal, drove it underground, and criminalized the study because they wanted to keep it secret and controlled by the CIA MKULTRA program.

>> No.6721790

>>6721773
You actually won't understand that drinking your own piss opens up True Reality until you try it. If you try to tell me drinking my own piss is stupid then you are just a disinfo agent.

>> No.6721794

>>6721772
I already explained the REAL stoned ape theory: >>6721639

and as for the 8 circuit model, that's simply a metaset of Leary's own making, a personal programming of his mind that he tried to pass off as objective fact. It WAS a subjective fact, in his own personal view, and to others who have since reprogrammed their minds to its principles. I'm not a fan of Leary personally (I think he jumped the gun on psys and helped bring them into the legal position they are in now) but his 8 circuit model makes sense at least, even if I don't prescribe to it. It's a metaset, simply, an enhanced reality.

>> No.6721796

>>6721780
Are you an "internet atheist"?

Do you subscribe to pure materialism?

Do you think that you use "science" to make your decisions?

Do you follow the crude scientific models that you learned in grade or high school without much critical thought?

>> No.6721798

>>6721794
The real stoned ape theory is the one proposed by McKenna, not some schizophrenic tripfag with delusions of grandeur.

>> No.6721799

>>6721789

if you keep it up i'm going to page a reptilian overseer to abduct you and harvest your organs for study. you shouldn't be able to think out of the confinement of the various mind dulling substances they have you on (ie: BPE, fluoridated water, high fructose corn syrup)


expect company.

>> No.6721800

>>6721790
Do whatever you want. I don't make claims as to what drinking urine is all about because I've never done it.

You're the one who is making claims about what psychedelics are all about with no citations, justification, or rational thought. You're just a scared baby screaming NO NO NO as far as I can tell.

>> No.6721801

>>6721796
Are you going to go back to /x/ any time soon or are you just going to shitpost more?

>> No.6721804

>>6721787
Unless you've been personally researching info on Bulk spaces for the last 4 years, I have news for you: It makes sense.

>>6721790
I'm sure this type of argument has a logical fallacy in it somewhere, something like an ad hominem.

>> No.6721808

>>6721798
Yes but McKenna's doesn't make sense, the one I proposed, (which is Graham Hancock's really) makes sense. I don't think you even read it tbh.

>> No.6721810

>>6721804
>I'm sure this type of argument has a logical fallacy in it somewhere, something like an ad hominem.
Funny, because that's your argument, just with drinking piss.

>> No.6721812

>>6721799
You realize that those are metaphorical parables to discuss problems in society, not literal truth.

You do understand how a metaphor works?

Like the Bible? It's a metaphor for social issues that were going on about 2k +- 400 years ago, not a necessarily Chronicled history?

You knee jerk Ex-Christian Kids are really stupid.

>> No.6721813

>>6721808
No it doesn't. You make about as much sense as a square circle. Take your dimensional hologram DMT shitposting back to /x/ you faggot.

>> No.6721815

>>6721804
strawman, actually.

>> No.6721816

>>6721810
What's my argument except with drinking piss?

>> No.6721819

>>6721804
>4d hyperbeings who decided to show themselves to the earthlings in their preferred "godly garb"

Sure sounds like the most parsimonious explanation....

>> No.6721821

>>6721801
>checkmate
Thanks.

>> No.6721822
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6721822

>>6721812
>conspiracy theories and pseudoscience are just metaphors!

>> No.6721823

>>6721816
That drinking piss reveals deep personal truths. Try it or shut up!

>> No.6721825

>>6721822
McKenna himself, a major topic of the thread, calls conspiracy theories an "ontological cartoon of reality"

You're the only shitposting pseudoscientist in this thread

>> No.6721828

>>6721804
Define 'bulk spaces'

>> No.6721829

>>6721813
How does seeing psychedelic visions not translate into the advent of symbology, spirituality, and cave art (usually psychedelic patterns mind you) in humans? As well as, if you've ever tripped (you haven't) you would know glossolalia runs rampant alongside the psychedelic experience, possibly kickstarting language. Instead of everyone grunting you have a bunch of early humans using parts of their vocal chords they never have used before, forming the first words. If you can't understand this you are just being contrarian honestly, and no one has time for your bullshit.

>> No.6721830

>>6721825
McKenna himself is an idiot and I couldn't give less credence to anything he says. Thanks for that thought.

>> No.6721831

>>6721823
But drinking piss causes brain damage. I don't have to try it to know that! Or cite any studies to prove my ideas, just because I learned it in D.A.R.E. Adults never lie to children or are mistaken and misled themselves!!!!!

>> No.6721836

>>6721829
This argument assumes that language is 100% socially constructed. It is not.

>> No.6721839

>>6721829
>How does seeing psychedelic visions not translate into the advent of symbology, spirituality, and cave art (usually psychedelic patterns mind you) in humans?
Just because you see a similarity between two things doesn't mean they're connected. Again, are you schizophrenic?

>As well as, if you've ever tripped (you haven't)
Pfft, yes I have. Not everyone who takes acid believes bullshit. You're just a very loud and stupid minority of drug-takers.

>> No.6721841

>>6721819
Again, research:
>Bulk Spaces
>Simulation theory
>actually TAKE a fucking breakthrough dose of any psy for God's sake
>astral projection, NDEs, OBEs

>>6721823
It cures poison ivy in an old wives tale, I know that much.

>>6721828
Bulk space is the higher dimensional space in which our own 3d reality is most likely embedded within. Think of a Russian doll. The more outer shells are higher dimensional spaces o "planes", holding or nesting lower dimensional spaces (most likely as simulation programs actually), just like we nest true Flatlands in the form of Conway's Game of Life, a 2d cellular automaton that self evolves. A true 2d universe.

So, logically, we are a 3d simulation in a 4d computer. What makes more sense than these 4d Simulator gods being the psychedelic deities from DMT experiences and the like, with DMT breakthroughs being a way to see "up" into their reality.

>> No.6721847

>>6721841
I've tripped a load of times, mostly on shrooms/acid. Does that mean I have to buy into a load of pseudoscientific woo?
Also, you didn't address my point - what's the most parsimonious explanation? That after ingesting a high dose of a psychoactive drug you A) hallucinated and saw a bunch of 'beings' or B) a load of travelling 4D hyperbeings decided that this was there cue to get in contact?
It's like you have no idea how science works.

>> No.6721852

>>6721841
>What makes more sense than these 4d Simulator gods being the psychedelic deities from DMT experiences and the like, with DMT breakthroughs being a way to see "up" into their reality.
What DOESN'T make more sense than that delusional drivel?

>> No.6721854

>>6721847
How much have you taken? In what situations? With what mindset and intention?

A trip is Set + Setting + Dose

>> No.6721856

>>6721836
Explain what you mean. Natural language? Are you referring to the limitations and possibilities of our biology?

>>6721839
>Just because you see a similarity between two things doesn't mean they're connected. Again, are you schizophrenic?

Your explanation for documented mushroom worship being one of the first things cave painted about, along with psychedelic patterns and the advent of religious practices then?

>Not everyone who takes acid believes bullshit.

Yeah, you're the demographic of DMT users who don't EVER get past the opening gates of the Chrysthanthemum since you wouldn't give machine elves the time of fucking day. The gods see no use in showing you shit yet because you wouldn't even try an believe.

>> No.6721857

>>6721765
you're actually just quite dumb and do have a large persecution complex
the reason they're illegal is for far more than the potential for someone to kill themself
compare different strains of psylocibin, one where you get a nice headbuzz at ~3.5g and one where you are not in reality anymore and feel abject terror, like dying every heartbeat at 1g. the fact that the situations are so untestable and could differ so heavily from each person, also, gives even better reason to make them illegal.

>> No.6721858

>>6721854
Avoid moar

>> No.6721859

>>6721854
>No true Scotsman fallacy in order to protect Muh Special Insights from criticism
Pathetic

>> No.6721860

>>6721854
Address my point.

>> No.6721862

>>6721858
>whatever that means
stop posting

>> No.6721865

>>6721859
Bullshit. There are sub-threshold and breakthrough doses for any tryptamine experience, documented in Shulguin's work and reproduced by thousands and thousands of psychonauts.

You're just a pleb trying to play the game.

You're losing.

>> No.6721867

>>6721856
It's very unlikely that language 'sprang up' during a trip - that implies that language is either A) invented by humans (he capacity for language has a strong genetic basis, therefore it was not 'invented' by humans) or B) was acquired and transmitted via impossible Lamarckian means.

>> No.6721873

>>6721852
Never tripped.

>>6721857
We need shamanic guidance. Western society has lost this and we desperately need it back.


Welp, I've got to get to the gym but it was fun shooting the shit here today on sci. Hopefully some of you open your eyes to the possibilities of an infinite multiverse someday. Also, research Bulk spaces.

>> No.6721876

>>6721860
What point was that that needs addressing? Your unsupported claims? I don't even know what you're talking about. You can barely string a coherent sentence together. Are you drunk?

>> No.6721877

>>6721854
4.5g Psilocybe semilanceata was my first 'breakthrough' trip. Surprisingly, I didn't wake up with an enthusiasm for pseudoscientific drivel.

>> No.6721881

>>6721873
>Bulk spaces.
>going to the gym
Does that have something to do with squats? Hahaha.

>> No.6721884

I think you guys are seriously missing what McKenna was talking about. As far as I know he never said anything about 'stoned ape theory'.

As I understand it he was saying that cavemen in search of food stumbled upon mushrooms(as can be seen on some cavepaintings) that gave them a spiritual experience. Those experiences then gave us a tiny push. It influenced our already huge brain(in comparison to other animals) and made us think about why were things like the way they are, instead of just being like animals and only surviving. It gaves a kind of first religious experience(as can be noticed even today with people that do mushrooms and such)

It was that that got us interested in art, paintings in the caves, because of visions that we saw. And from them on we started developing more and more and so here we are.

Of course none of this can be proved, but its fun to think about it.

>> No.6721888

>>6721876
If you don't understand what I'm talking about, it is not due to my incoherence but your lack of reading comprehension.
I will restate my point. AGAIN.
How can you claim that 'contact with aliens from the fourth dimension' is a more parsimonious explanation for the experience you had than 'I took a strong psychoactive substance and hallucinated really hard'?

>> No.6721889

>>6721856
>Your explanation for documented mushroom worship being one of the first things cave painted about
Mushroom worship was definitely not one of the first things cave painted. There are several cultures that use psychedelics religiously, but these developed much much later than cave paintings and religion itself.

Religious practices developed from man's need to understand the world around him. Psychedelics have no explanative value as an addition to the theories of development of religion. The only reason people like McKenna came up with such theories is because they confirm his biases towards psychedelics being important, just as Marxist intellectuals attempt to apply Marxist analysis to everything.

>> No.6721891

>>6721889
Sensible/10

>> No.6721899

>>6721865
>implying anyone cares what psychopriests think about their psychoreligion
>No seriously guys take my religion seriously!
The fact that no one does means you're the one losing, friend.

>> No.6721900

>>6721877
I think some of the hyperspace theories to explain the source of the common phenomena of entity contact during psychedelic experience holds some water.

I definitely don't follow the mainstream view that any experience outside of normal consciousness is "druggie bullshit" and should be ignored in my day to day. The changes I made in my life since I started tripping have made me a better person and given me a better life in a very real way, and a lot of those ideas came to me while in an altered state.

We're trying to grapple with experiences that are difficult to remember with our conscious mind, much less communicate and we also have to deal with knee-jerk bigotry.

I don't follow modern psychology and psychiatry though, so if you're coming from that direction and calling it some kind of truth, then we can't really meet in the middle somewhere because I think that shit is as much bullshit as you think the new age "pseudoscientific drivel" is bullshit... so...

>> No.6721904

>>6721888
I didn't make that claim.

I also reject most of hallucination and think that psychiatry is the secular materialist version of the Spanish inquisition, with almost as much torture

>> No.6721908

>>6721900
See
>>6721888

I'm not saying that there aren't other dimensions or 'beings' - I can't say for certain whether there are or not. What I can say is that there are much simpler explanations for these phenomena.

>> No.6721909
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6721909

>>6721899
Rage

>> No.6721912

>>6721904
Ok. So we can agree that perhaps '4 dimensional aliens' isn't the simplest solution to the problem?

>> No.6721913

>>6721899
>psychopriest
Organic chemist who synthesized chemicals and took copious notes of voluntary human trials, that have been repeated by thousands, maybe millions of people, just in the United States.

okay buddy, have fun with your bigoted knee-jerk ignorance.

>> No.6721918

>>6721908
>>6721912
I don't know. I read Flatland in Middle School so... Hyperspace entities makes a simple kind of sense to me.

I'm not willing to throw out my experiences and discount them because "Drugz lol,"

I also don't see it as a problem with a solution. So... We have some fundamental differences in our approach to the phenomena/

>> No.6721920

>>6721913
Have fun with yours, faggot. Remind me again why psychedelic hallucinations are any more important than religious or schizophrenic hallucinations?

>> No.6721923

>>6721920
Remind me again how you are claiming they are any different? DMT is endogenous to the brain already...

Also, what is a schizophrenic hallucination again? Psychology can't even nail down a cause of that disorder... just a loosely grouped collection of behavioral and cognitive symptoms that they have lumped under a label in order to try to put the people away in little boxes.

>> No.6721924

>>6721918
I think that 'Drugz lol' is a much more sensible explanation than '4 dimensional hyperbeings deciding to contact me lol'.

>> No.6721927

>>6721918
And the problem is 'how can we explain 'contact' experiences induced by DMT?'
You've put forward a potential solution, thus treating it as a problem.

>> No.6721931

>>6721924
Then, you are a mainstream, normal, Western thinker following the intellectual road laid out before you without questioning it too hard.

Monotheistic Christianity or Godless Atheism aren't the only choices.

>> No.6721933

>>6721931
>Godless Atheism
Who said anything about godless?

>> No.6721936

>>6721923
I'm not claiming they're essentially different, you are. If you want to argue that psychedelics make you see things like a schizophrenic, go ahead.

>Also, what is a schizophrenic hallucination again?
Seeing and hearing things that aren't actually there. It's not that hard.

>Psychology can't even nail down a cause of that disorder
Just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>> No.6721937

>>6721931
My worldview is informed by science and probability, not patchwork 'Eastern' spirituality and subjective drug woo. Like I said, I've tripped on many occasions. I just haven't come to the same scatterbrained conclusions that you have. Your solution is not the most parsimonious one.

>> No.6721938

>>6721927
You can put it that way. My personal answer is, "I don't know," I think it's disingenuous and unhelpful to throw out any theory until we can figure out a way to test them. I definitely don't throw out the multitude of reports of other people's experiences as nonsense.

I'm not putting forth a solution. I'm musing on hyperspace entities based on my reading of Flatland and leaving the question open ended instead of trying to come to some preliminary and necessarily incorrect "solution" to explain away a phenomena.

Learn to leave questions open, sometimes for decades, maybe for the rest of your life.

>> No.6721940

>>6721936
What gives you the authority to validate someone else's perceptions?

>> No.6721941

>>6721937
Your mistake is in thinking that I have come to any conclusions at all.

>> No.6721949

>>6721937
Also, explain turbulence. Have fun.

>> No.6721959

>>6721941
Well, you're not willing to admit that 'I took a hallucinogenic drug and subsequently hallucinated' isn't a more parsimonious explanation than '4 dimensional beings from hyperspace decided to contact me'.

>> No.6721963

>>6721949
There are gaps in our current scientific understanding? Therefore 4D aliens!
This is basically a 'god of the gaps' argument.

>> No.6721966

>>6721959
It's def. a cheaper answer, but I don't follow that the cheapest thing is the best thing. My answer is, "I don't know." I prefer to use both possibilities depending on the context of my interactions with other people.

Also, hallucination is an external agent invalidating someone else's experience as unreal. I reject your, and anyone else's authority over my experience in that manner and give other people that same autonomy over their experiences.

>> No.6721968

>>6721963
No, you are not comprehending what I am saying. I have come to no such conclusion and am arguing no such thing.

Plus, hyperspace might be a lot more than just a 4th dimension!

>> No.6721970

>>6721940
My ability to tell the difference between true and false things?

My innate human rationality?

What gives you the "authority" to make any claims at all?

>> No.6721974

>>6721970
Read Kant's the Critique of Pure Reason and get back to this.

You can't even objectively experience something as simple as both sides of a piece of paper at the same time, yet you think that you have the ability to discern truth from falsehood as if you were some kind of omniscient?

You give me that authority by deigning to respond.

>> No.6721982

>>6721974
I don't need to "objectively" experience anything, I just need to create a simple model of reality that correlates with what I observe. Models that don't correlate, that aren't useful, should be rejected.

If you truly believe you don't know anything, then stop posting words as if they mean something, you hypocrite. I don't think you actually believe that, you are just using an immature argument because you have no actual responses.

>I don't know anything and neither do you!
Great.

>> No.6721992

>>6721982
This. So much post-modern nonsense ITT.

>> No.6722002

>>6721982
>>6721992
>reduce all of post modernity to a strawman sentence
>declare victory

Okay kids. Have fun with your 500 year old philosophical foundations.

>> No.6722028

>>6721924
or both theories are complete shit (which they are). it's not an either or dilemma. it's about refining the truth of our understanding of human consciousness, not stopping at some point and saying "this is good enough". unfortunately, it's a really difficult question to tackle all at once and we have little to no concrete information to afford the topic, so we have to wait for technology and society itself advances. a lot of modern information is contradictory, as well.

>> No.6722079

>>6721924
No, you have it backwards. YOU decided to contact them, whether you know it or not. These 4d simulation runners are basically scientists in the same vein as Conway, how excited and monumentous would it be if a 2d cellular automaton "knocked on the glass" and said hello?

That's essentially what's happening with us. These beings are hoping that we as a world can realize some fairly simple principles (ascending and descending reincarnation, Infinite Love (inb4 hippy babble) and to create and help others create, it's the only way to fight entropy. They want to nurture our species to some truly next level shit (imagine a society that doesn't use expensive and clunky spaceships to traverse the stars, but nigh instantaneous psychedelic/asral travel, and the entire society knows how to do this throughout the dimensional planes, seeing wonder after wonder) This is truly the future you want, and possibly even need.

>> No.6722159

>>6722002
>Ignore the entire argument and focus on the joke at the end
Have fun with that cognitive dissonance.

>> No.6722183

>>6722079
OR maybe you are just hallucinating, you fucking retard.

http://tripzine.com/listing.php?id=dmt_pickover

>> No.6722190

>>6721486
Really, really, really fucking dumb. But also interesting, and kind of brilliant in a simultaneously retarded/hilarious way. I wouldn't give it any credence, but that kind of out-of-the-box thinking demonstrated by McKenna and company is something the scientific world needs on a regular basis. We need jolts of insanity from time to time to ensure we don't fall into a collective rut.

>> No.6722223 [DELETED] 

>>6722183
>http://tripzine.com/listing.php?id=dmt_pickover

Except schizophrenia and other "hallucinatory psychoses" were invented to quell mystical happenings being reported in the west. Do you honestly trust Big Pharma? You must know how much damage antipsychotics do to the human psyche right? Lack of motivation, loss of creativity, laziness, massive weight gain just to name a few. At teh same time substances like weed, ayahuasca and mushrooms have been in the aboriginal medicines for eons. Go to the jungle and tell a tribe that they aren't actually contacting their ancestors or spirits, that spirits aren't real. You're argument falls apart when you reach this part of the discussion anyways, as more and more quantum physicists are coming over to the side of panpsychism or quantum animism, Mind Theory. WHen you reach further into holographic universe principle, their really is no such thing as a hallucination, the seeing of something that doesn't exist. All things are accessible to the mind through the infinite multiverse, the holographic principle and the ORIGINAL quantum entanglement of the big bang permitting you to see the possibilities of the multiverse through your mind's eye.

>> No.6722240

>>6722223
>Except schizophrenia and other "hallucinatory psychoses" were invented to quell mystical happenings being reported in the west.
Sure they were, schizo. Your ravings are so profound that you are being suppressed! Delusion of grandeur, defined.

>> No.6722258

>>6722159
I rejected Leibniz's ontology a decade ago. I didn't feel a need to repeat myself as that was included in "500 year old philosophical foundations."

>> No.6722262

>>6722240
>sure they were, crackpot, conspiracy nut and other textbook TLA DISINFO responses
CIA? Who knows these days, you're all sucking each other's syphilitic cocks anyway.

>> No.6722263

>>6722223
Consider your actions. What if someone on antipsychotics decides not to take their pills because of your post and ends up killing a bunch of people?

>> No.6722265 [DELETED] 

>>6721628

Kike pls.

>> No.6722267

The monkey in the picture looks like a black guy.

>> No.6722269

>>6721504
>can;'t find any evidence
>obviously hasnt fucked on shrooms...

seriously missing out on one of the more enjoyable experiences... make sure you have a rubber or very very very good control of your prostate, that shit feels so good you will want to cum inside

>> No.6722275

>>6722263
Someone on anti-psychotics shouldn't be reading 4chan in the first place. Plus, it's your MKULTRA mind control program sleeper agent malfunctions that create the psychotic killers anyway, so you are the one who is culpable Mr. Man In Black Disinfo agent.

>> No.6722276

>>6722265
>>6722267
More textbook disinfo, start a racial argument to slide the offending posts out of view of the main forum. C'mon, it's like you're not even trying.

>> No.6722283

>>6722276
What?

>> No.6722291

>>6722275
You're stupid.

>> No.6722293

>>6722283
The MKULTRA CIA spooks don't want us talking about psychedelics on a science forum, so they've been trolling us using textbook online disinformation tactics, that is one of them.

>> No.6722295

>>6722293
Why the fuck would you want to take a psychadelic retard?

>> No.6722300
File: 34 KB, 640x427, mathphd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6722300

This thread is great

>> No.6722303

>>6722300
You're retarded.

>> No.6722307

>>6722295
Takes one to know one.

>> No.6722309

>>6722307
You will be executed retard.

>> No.6722312

>>6721504
Psilocybin are not the only kind of psychedelic mushroom, not by a longshot. Your arguement is invalid. Im not saying the guy you replied to is right either, but that study doesnt prove shit if they only checked out psilocybin.

>> No.6722315

>>6722312
Straightedge is superior to your culture.

>> No.6722316

>>6722309
Then I'll die saying, "I warned you all."

>> No.6722321

>>6722315
Straightedge is borne out of punks dying from shooting up with dirty heroin needles and sodomizing each other to death.

Psychedelics aren't in the same culture.

Your understanding of culture is shit. You are shit.

>> No.6722329

>>6722240
You should probably try and debunk any of which I have said then with logic besides "theya re hallucinations." Where is your theory on how dimensionality nests like a russian doll? Does it aklso incorporate the simulation argument , as well as many other new physics theories? Is it self consistent AND challenging to the current worldview. Present it, and we should discuss the similarities and differences between our theories, perhaps coming to a SYNTHESIS.

>>6722263
Stop spreading this abhorant view of schizophrenics, they aren't murderers, most of them are scared of the populace because AS natural mystics in a Western world, they often find it hard to synch up frequency wise with teh surrounding populace, making vibratory dissonance in their immediate surroundings.


>>6722293
Whenever I start talking about this stuff my posts/the thread itself *is* pruned, but it's only a matter of time until more holistic practices and idealogies are standard in the science world, just follow the trend... Leary fucked it up fro us a bit in the 70s, but psychedelic science is going to be a huge part of consciousness exploration and experiments.

>> No.6722336

>>6722329
He shouldn't have tried to be a guru... damn guru's...

>> No.6722350

>>6722315
>>6722316
>>6722321

If you do not accept straightedge, then you will be executed.

>> No.6722365

>>6722350
Forum sliding will not work:

GOD-The Source, Logos or Godhead, an eternal, blissful, nirvana like state free from causation and full of infinite creative potential, where all of existence ebbs and flows from, eventually returning to, the Highest Heaven or Greatest Geometry
>then God decided to make the lower dimensional spaces or planes, which are all nested within the bigger ones like a russian doll. This is where the illusion of manyness plays out, God playing hide and go seek with Himself (peekaboo!) In the highest dimensional planes the Highest lesser gods play, but they in turn create lower planes to jump down into to further the exploration of the Creation. Basically gods from every plane are playing Sims.
>we are on the 3rd lowest plane, the 3rd spatial dimension, below us is flatland which we may someday figure out how to jump down into, and below that the Line, then the Dot
>The Dot is at the center of Creation, and is most likely a trapdoor to the GOD plane.

>> No.6722444

>>6721486
Probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. This is coming from someone who was into psychedelics since I was 14.

Source: I study human evolution.

>> No.6722459

>>6722444
Post in the communist thread.

>> No.6722470

>>6722459
Wut.

>> No.6722475

>>6722470
Communism is superior.