/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.6681472]

What is the likelihood of this occurring in the next 50-100 years? Is technology really expanding now at an exponential rate? If so might this ever come to be true in our lifetime? pls answer.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681478]

The dream of space travel is dull and bland, and I doubt it's going to ever happen with our limited resources. You should think of advancement as something associated with nature more so than technology. The true dream of the future is evolution, through nature, and the prosperity of our species,

[Anonymous No.6681482]

>>6681472

It really depends on whether FTL is possible. I really have no idea, Einstein says no, nothing in the quantum theory I know of permits it, so even if it is possible, it will probably take a full century to get it working

[svacscz No.6681498]

If we keep running at this rate, we're going to need a few planets and moons to support us in that amount of time (50-100 yrs). The most pleasant way for the governments of Earth is to expand into our neighboring planets and asteroids (since they lose power in every other scenario). So, with huge funding, I guess we could expect to mine in the asteroid belt and the Moon, or maybe even live in Mars using life support. But don't expect interstellar travel and colonies in our lifetime.

[Anonymous No.6681503]

i had a dream once where all the buildings and roads were grown like plants, you just planted it and it took care of itself, growing into the correct shape

and the cars were somehow also organic, and had legs

it was quite a strange dream, but i woke up with a new idea of what futurism might entail

[Anonymous No.6681509]

Pic related and his project is possibly the most serious minded experiments that could lead to FTL travel ever undertaken. Results have been so far inconclusive and the underlying physics is impractical at best, tenuous at worst.

The Trekkie in me wants it to work so bad. But I'm a realist.

[Anonymous No.6681510]

Wouldn't the EmDrive (if proven to be completely legit/possible) be capable in making this happen?

>EmDrive takes us to any planet/satellite/etc in the solar system in a matter of minutes/hours/days/weeks
>start mining shit
>cost to build shit becomes cheaper
>start building larger and even larger shit
>begin interstellar space travel with large fucking ships with improved, more effective versions of EmDrive
>reach neighboring solar systems in a matter of years or decades
>mine more shit
>build more shit
>shit gets better and better
>???
>the human race is saved from extinction, on Earth

[Anonymous No.6681511]

>>6681478
this
/thread

[Anonymous No.6681516]

>>6681482
Alcubierre drive bitch

[Anonymous No.6681519]

>>6681510
The EmDrive breaks conservation of momentum. 90% sure the new results are as flawed as the FTL neutrino fiasco. Notice the intentionally broken version of the drive produced the same level of thrust?

We won&5 be able to tell for sure until they release more data from the experiment, but in the absence of that evidence I'm pessimistic.

[Anonymous No.6681520]

>>6681478
>limited resources
That's why we're planning on going to asteroids (and Mars, but that's mainly just for achievement and colonization; like landing on the Moon); not just to understand them, more, but to mine them for resources.

[Anonymous No.6681527]

>>6681519
>intentionally broken version of the drive

The only difference was that the "working" drive had slots on the bottom, which according to Cannae were vital for the drive's function, and the "broken" drive simply lacked these slots. Which just means that the drive's function is not dependent on the slots, and the guys who designed it had seemingly reason why they built it that specific way or why they included the "vital" slots.

[svacscz No.6681531]

Let's get real here. Even if it is possible to use the EmDrive or "warp drives", our resources are scarce and the world economy is in deep shit. We can't build ships that can make interstellar travel or even solar travel today. But maybe, if we can build self-contained robotic mining colonies that can mine ore from nearby asteroids and the Moon in the next few decades, we could become prosperous enough to build a Martian colony by the end of this century. And if we can continue mining and industry on Mars, we can go even deeper into the solar system (Europa, Io and other moons). If we're lucky enough, we could actually build sleeper ships with extremely powerful drives. Those ships would travel at approximately 0.4 c and would use time dilation and hibernation in tandem to prevent aging. And their engines could harvest the theoretical particles called gravitons (carrier particles of gravitational force) and use them for thrust.

[Anonymous No.6681536]

>>6681472
probability = 0/1

Space technology doesn't move that fast. But I'll give it 50% in the next 500 years

[Anonymous No.6681544]

Let's say empty space had room temperature and there was a floating water drop of the size of earth, what would happen? Would it have a ice core caused by the pressure? Would it be possible for life to develop? How would an asteroid impact look like?

[Anonymous No.6681556]

EVE will probably never happen, OP. They rely on fake science to move their ships around.

[svacscz No.6681558]

The main problem of such an interstellar civilization would be communication. Our current technology seems to have reached the physical limit of communicational speed (speed of light) via fiberoptics. However, this isn't enough, as light takes four years even to reach the second-nearest star (losing only to the Sun) Proxima Centauri, not the mention the round-trip. And the nearest extrasolar planet that is thought to be able to support life is 16 light years away (Gliese 581 f). Earth cannot possibly rule her extrasolar colonies, so they have to be established by independent corporations and coalitions. This could as well pave the way to an interstellar war, which would destroy parts of colonies.

Tachyons, if they even exist, could be a solution to this problem. Tachyons are theoretical particles that travel faster than light. If we encoded data on them, this would reduce the time it takes to communicate.

An even better and actual solution would be to use quantum entanglement, which is a state where particles are codependent in their states (eg. if one of the entangled pair is up, the other pair must be down). Even today, there are a few successful attempts at this but a conventional light signal must also be sent, effectively reducing the speed to the speed of light. It is more of an engineerung problem to remove light from quantum communications, and if it is ever solved, it would mean instantanious interstellar communication.

[Anonymous No.6681566]

>>6681558
Whatevs, interstellar war would be too expensive to be worth it.

The only real chance we have for colonizing other stars is to wait hundreds/thousands of years until one drifts close enough that we can hop over to it.

[Anonymous No.6681584]

>>6681472
Another reason this won't happen: mass is your enemy if you are trying to accelerate. So no giant space battle ships and tankers, but instead increasingly miniaturized probes driven by ion drives and solar sails.

NASA's Dawn and Japan's IKAROS are better pictures of future long term spaceflight.

[Anonymous No.6681595]

>>6681566
I agree, pic related. The metaphor for interstellar travel is seeds sown on the wind, not ships between continents.

[Anonymous No.6681616]

We will step on mars (maybe Venus if we manage not to die) and lightly colonize the moon. Beyond that we will not find anything worth the effort and resources.

[Anonymous No.6681625]

>>6681472
probably not, even if we advance it wont be necessary
but youll be able to experience that in VR for sure

[svacscz No.6681626]

Physical war may cost too much, but is it not possible to hijack the life support controller of a colony and cut off the oxygen supply? Or maybe hack into a mining drone, causing it to destroy its fellow drones by drilling into the main power core? The future interstellar civilization will rely heavily on machines and machines, as you know, are always compromisable.

[Anonymous No.6681639]

What's even the point of an interstellar civilization/empire? Those are mostly just analogs to civilizations of the past used for dramatic effect in games and stories. Those old empires were dependent on colonies for ressources and trade. On interstellar scales this becomes nonsensical.

Every civilization advanced enough to engage in interstellar travel would have lots of natural ressources in its own system at its immediate disposal. There are no metals elsewhere that wouldn't be already here. Why mine ore or rare earth metals in a planetary system lightyears away if you could dig up the stuff from earth itself at smaller costs than fitting an interstellar mission + mining operation. Of course this might change if interstellar shipping gets dirt cheap. As cheap as overseas shipping. There would be no incentive for trade, since the colonies couldn't provide the export value to balance their initial imports in advanced goods they can't yet produce on their own. The only interesting export goods would be biological material exclusive to the colony. But anybody buying these goods needs to pay enough to pay for what colony imports.

Mass colonization and emigration may also be economically unfeasible unless interstellar spacetravel gets as cheap as operating a seaferry. It's more likely that population stops to grow on Earth and emigration to stop overpopulation becomes a non-issue.

The only sensible purpose for instellar colonization would be research and exploration as well as the intentional spreading of humanity in the galaxy to counter extinction of the species on a planetary scale. The authorities would have to provide the initial ressources for the colonies for virtually free, because it's economically unfeasible as a business. Assuming interstellar travel is expensive. Again, if it's dirtcheap everything becomes a non-issue and people could fly around the galaxy on their own like in Star Trek or Star Wars.

[Anonymous No.6681652]

>>6681639
life is good, more life is better

[Anonymous No.6681654]

Anyone else follow James Woodward's work?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodward_effect

He's got some interesting experimental results. And if HIS work pans out, then FTL travel might actually be possible.

FYI: take this with a grain of salt, but I've heard that all of Sonny White's 'positive' results in the warp experiments at Eagleworks are the result of changes to the apparatus that conform it to Woodward's theories.

[svacscz No.6681667]

Even if overpopulation stops being an issue, our resources would be completely drained and Earth would be near-uninhabitable due to extreme pollution caused by overpopulation and the depopulation event. We would pretty much have no choice but to develop robots from synthetic materials using minimal iron and to go mining out in the asteroids. And as Earth would not be self-sufficient anymore, there would be significant research on extraterrestrial agriculture (hence the Martian colony). However, agriculture can also be done on Skylab-style sattelite farms. Maybe we can even live in orbital habitats and live on synthetic nutrition. I can imagine a habitat station orbiting over Martian farms that are under glass-like insulation, being supplied oxygen by its vegetation and hydrolysis.

Maybe we will decide to screw all this and transfer our minds to a Matrix style network, but that's an entirely different topic.

[Anonymous No.6681669]

The likelihood is zero because there's no economic infrastructure built yet to sufficiently handle something like that.

Ever wonder why disease seems to run so rampant in africa? No it's not because they're less intelligent, It's because they lack an economic infrastructure that can handle first world healthcare.

Without some kind of infrastructure to serve as a foundation for growth and regulation any serious endeavor to a particular goal becomes extremely faulty or prone to constant failure.

[Anonymous No.6681686]

>>6681527
It was a control unit, to validate their measurement process. It's very easy to measure thrust that doesn't exist, or is generated by something like magnetic interaction with nearby equipment.

After the setup demonstrated that they were incompetent experimenters (the control and test unit showed the same amount of thrust), they demonstrated incompetence in interpretation of the results by trying to claim that this validates their system, rather than invalidates the experiment.

[Anonymous No.6681687]

>>6681667
>colony on Mars

What's the point of a colony in the depth of a gravity well that is more likely to attract meteroids than a space station, has no advantage in radiation protection, is almost as hostile to human life as space itself and requires an artificial construction to maintain lively conditions just like a space station?

[Anonymous No.6681705]

Why is everyone talking about FTL and interstellar travel?

There are many millions of times the resources available in Earth's crust, atmosphere, and ocean in our solar system.

Without going to any other stars, we can develop beyond the typical sci-fi depiction of a "galactic civilization", and have the equivalent of thousands of independent occupied planets.

I think it's very plausible that expansion into space will be in full swing fifty years from now.

[Anonymous No.6681709]

>>6681667
Assuming Earth becomes a hostile environment, why would space be favorable? Space requires artificial gravity and includes the risk of decompression. Both of which wouldn't be an issue on earth, plus earth has some radiation protection. If you have the ressources to conduct off-world mining operations you could surely excavate some landfills, look for metal or other ressources and make them reusable. And if you can grow plants on a space station you can grow plants in an isolated greenhouse on earth.

[Anonymous No.6681725]

>>6681626
Maybe...but it seems implausible. You're going to send a message to another colony and hope that
(1) The software bug you hope to exploit is still unfixed 10-50 years later.(The time to transmit your message)

(2) They don't screen any of the messages coming in through their few expensive receiving dishes.(They would have to be more or less actively complicit in their self-destruction, you can't direct transmit from another solar system to a mining drone.)

And to what benefit? Why attempt to destroy a colony that is physically separated from you for the foreseeable/distance future?

[svacscz No.6681726]

I guess you're right, but most of Earth would be uninhabitable and inarable, so some of the remaining population, regrettably the richest ones, will be able to transfer themselves into upper-orbit habitats built resource-efficiently. Also, we could use genetic engineering to adapt the crops to suit the needs of a post apocalyptic world. But again, the richest would claim most of them, leaving some of the world still depending on synthetic nutrition.

Thinking about it now, my dreams about interstellar travel are crushed. But thanks anyway for the point of view.

[Anonymous No.6681727]

>>6681687
>more likely to attract meteroids than a space station
Not significantly. They go very fast. If they're not on a collision course without gravity pulling them in, few are going to be pulled into a collision by gravity.

Furthermore, many (especially the numerous micrometeors) will burn up in the atmosphere, even Mars's thin one, and even more will be blocked by Mars itself, which covers 50% of the sky.

>no advantage in radiation protection
Again, there is Mars itself, covering 50% of the sky. There's also ample material handily available for shielding.

>What's the point
Mars gives you aerobraking (so you don't have to match velocity with it, you just have to collide with it the right way -- Mars is just about the lowest delta-V target to hit), the atmosphere and regolith are omnipresent resources, you have a whole planet's worth of localized resources to explore and exploit, there's a decent amount of gravity without any complex and hazardous spinning sections, etc.

Asteroids and the Moon have their advantages, but Mars is clearly a top contender for the best place to colonize first.

[Anonymous No.6681729]

>>6681686
In the end it's just a cavity resonator and the addition or omission of minor features on the inside (might) only change its Q-factor. It's still a cavity with a standing electromagnetic wave.

[Anonymous No.6681736]

>>6681616
I think purely space based colonies are more probable. Don't need to expend the massive quantity of resources needed to enter/exit the gravity well.

Still not gonna happen in the next 50 years...

[Anonymous No.6681738]

>>6681729
It was designed as a control with the intent of it not producing thrust. I don't care to listen to any crackpot rationalizations for why the control unit and the test unit produced the same amount of thrust.

If you don't accept getting a significant result out of your control invalidating the experiment, what you're doing isn't science.

[Anonymous No.6681740]

For space travel to be possible there would have to be world wide communism and peace on earth. If literally the whole world pooled its resources into space travel instead of destroying each other it might be possible, but I don't think it'll happen within our lifetimes.

[Anonymous No.6681741]

Humans will be extinct before we make it anywhere far off into space.

[Anonymous No.6681745]

>>6681727
Planets offer a huge advantage in radiation protection. Even a thin atmosphere is sufficient to protect against GCRs, and as was pointed out, the planet itself reduces radiation by ~50%

But you can get that advantage in space too, orbiting any body with a magnetic field(earth, Jupiter, etc...) you'll get pretty decent rad shielding.

[svacscz No.6681746]

Maybe we're like the prehistoric people talking about flying without the slightest idea of what a plane looks like. Maybe someday, it will become as cheap as today's planes. But obviously, if this is true, that's not happening in the lifespans of our great-great-great-great-grandsons and daughters'

[Anonymous No.6681758]

>>6681738
>the intent of it not producing thrust

...according to the developer's idea of how it works.

It's still functioning as a microwave cavity. Whether a simple microwave cavity can produce a small exotic thrust or not is still highly questionable or even unlikely, considering we know and operate these things for quite a while.

[Anonymous No.6681761]

>>6681758
well, everyones microwave is bolted to the kitchen, so of course no one noticed this effect before. and anyways, quantum mechanics werent invented until a few decades ago, so before that we wouldnt be able to produce thrust using the microwaves of the day

[Anonymous No.6681764]

>>6681746
>Maybe someday, it will become as cheap as today's planes. But obviously, if this is true, that's not happening in the lifespans of our great-great-great-great-grandsons and daughters'
The main reason spaceflight is so expensive is that we don't have efficiently reusable launch vehicles.

In terms of raw energy costs, getting to orbit is actually not all that much worse than intercontinental flight. Remember that jets fly on pure hydrocarbon fuel. Rockets might be mostly propellant tank, but most of that propellant is liquid oxygen, which can be extracted from the air with little expenditure of energy.

SpaceX and Blue Origin are both working on a clearly feasible approach to efficient reusability: propulsive flyback and landing. Others are working on spaceplane designs. SpaceX's design is already being flight-tested on orbital launches, and their all-reusable system could be in full operational mode within a couple of years.

So when this technology is ready, all we'll need is cheaper energy to make spaceflight as cheap as today's planes. Advancing solar power technology has the potential to provide us with huge surpluses of energy, perfect for producing rocket fuel.

[Anonymous No.6681765]

>>6681516
>He thinks Alcubierre is a thing

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681774]

>>6681478
/thread

[Anonymous No.6681775]

>>6681774
Stop samefagging you fucking retarded tripfag.

[Anonymous No.6681776]

>>6681765
The same thing was with EMD drive faggot.

Are you 13?

[Anonymous No.6681777]

>>6681774
You've still got your trip on.

If you're going to post to agree with your own shitpost, don't you think it would be more convincing if you at least pretended to be someone else?

[Anonymous No.6681779]

>>6681774
Whatevs fuck that hippie bullshit. Nature and evolution aren't fucking goals. I'm all for cybernetic enhancement and genetic modification though. No reason why we can't do that AND space colonies.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681780]

>>6681779
Haha you're retarded. The children of future humanity will cease to exist because of you.

[Anonymous No.6681787]

>>6681780
You are going to be obsolete while rest of humanity evolves. You are going to be one of the tribes which will stay on polluted, radiated and damaged earth soil. You are going to mutate into being no close to any human shape. Your offspring will die because of fatal mutations.

While rest of humanity will enjoy convergence with technology and science.

[Anonymous No.6681790]

>>6681780
bawwwwwwwww

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681794]

>>6681787
Until we all die because of it, bravo, you were obviously not good scientists then.

[Anonymous No.6681800]

>go to other planets
>motive? resources and space
lulz
why not just cultivate africa and move the sahara, that woud literally be easier?
what about making an atlantis? that would also be easier
both are easier and safer than having a pod float in space with no source of income and draining money via supply lines

[Anonymous No.6681801]

>>6681780
Give me one reason why I should give a shit about future generations.

>inb4 "muh feelings"
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.6681803]

>>6681794
We gonna die because of what, you say?

[Anonymous No.6681808]

>>6681794
Yup we all die. So wut?

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681815]

>>6681808
No, educators and our leaders are killing us, and science is obviously not real science if it doesn't register this as something we should understand about the universe.

Thanks, good day
(you dumb fucks).

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681817]

ITT: People who believe space better than the Earth, and thus, not worthy of life on Earth.

[Anonymous No.6681821]

>>6681817
u wot m8

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681824]

What's the matter, did my intelligence scare everyone away again? tut tut

[Anonymous No.6681832]

>>6681824
> aether
> intelligent
ok I lol'd

[Anonymous No.6681834]

>>6681824
please remove yourself from the gene pool

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681837]

>>6681832
You're nothing but a close-minded space-nerd, why would I be mad that you were laughing?

[Anonymous No.6681841]

>>6681837
>close-minded space-nerd
This shows me that you're mad.

[Anonymous No.6681843]

>>6681837
You have no idea who I am.
That was my first post in this thread.

You're the biggest joke /sci/ ever had.

[Anonymous No.6681847]

>>6681824

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681849]

ITT: Space nerds and pseudoscientists.

[Anonymous No.6681852]

>>6681849
> ITT: aether describing herself
ftfy

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681860]

>>6681852
Fuck off you fucking scum. You're equal to the most cowardly insignificant thing, on the planet, and probably the universe. You think with your tongue, suck my dick tongue-human.

[Anonymous No.6681862]

>>6681860
you sound mad

[svacscz No.6681863]

Well, it's about we abandon thread.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681864]

[Anonymous No.6681870]

>>6681860
In this moment I have started to understand why Christians need to believe in Hell.

[Anonymous No.6681871]

>>6681860

[svacscz No.6681873]

Abandon thread, it has no relevance to the topic.

[Anonymous No.6681875]

>>6681863
No, fuck that. This is what we have mods for.

Report persistent trolls and shitposters, and then carry on with the thread as if they're not present, rather than responding or retreating.

[Carbon No.6681876]

>>6681472
Technological progress isn't slowing down, the rate of tech progress is though..so it's very likely that you wont be seeing this shit in your lifetime.
Just play EVE

[Anonymous No.6681877]

>>6681482
You don't need to go faster than light.
As speed approaches light speed, length contracts. If you're travelling close enough to the speed of light you can get to Alpha Centauri in minutes.
The problem is the amount of energy it would take to get a spaceship up to that speed.

[Anonymous No.6681881]

>>6681877
Which is why we need propellantless drives like Woodward's Mach Effect thruster.

[Anonymous No.6681889]

>>6681877
The big problem I see is that even if we could get close to the speed of light, our ship would probably just run into a rock and explode pretty much instantly.

Let me explain. We've found rocky debris(the oort cloud) going out to at least half the distance to our nearest neighbor.(proxma centauri) And that just happens to be as far as we can see. It stands to reason that there is probably rocky debris around proxima centauri to at least the same distance. We just haven't seen it because we don't have sufficiently good telescopes.

If there is rocky debris pretty much everywhere, we're not gonna get anywhere close to the speed of light.(even ignoring the massive energy required.) Because even a speck of dust would destroy any craft we could conceivably build.

[Anonymous No.6681893]

>>6681889
That's why you need deflector shields, too. Which I swear I remember reading about somewhere...

[Anonymous No.6681896]

>>6681893
Deflector shields are mostly for radiation. There's nothing that you can really do about macroscopic chunks of shit.

[Anonymous No.6681897]

>>6681877
PLease explain how relative contraction can make you travel distances further? I dont understand

[Anonymous No.6681898]

>>6681896
Unless you could use some sort of gravity field to move them away.

Which would really be the key to everything, wouldn't it? If we understood what gravity really was, and could manipulate it, we could easily have interstellar travel.

[Anonymous No.6681903]

>>6681896
That's silly. When you're going at near-light speed, all of the impacts will be coming from the same direction. Therefore, you can build your shield out as far in front as you like.

If you put an ablative foil or dust shield a thousand kilometers out front, the high energy impact will vaporize anything that hits it and a non-ablative shield will be able to take care of it without being damaged.

The potential for collisions is easy to deal with.

[Anonymous No.6681908]

>>6681893
Unfortunately, anything in our path would have gargantuan kinetic energy in our frame of reference.(Due to relativity) Which means it would take gargantuan energy to deflect.

If we had very serious resources, we might be able to construct space lanes? By clearing paths between stars with lasers or slow moving robotic craft or something, but shit would probably keep drifting into our lanes.

IMO, any practical interstellar colonization will have to be done at a snails pace over generations. 100-1000 year voyages and such.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681909]

>>6681903
>he takes space travel seriously.

[Anonymous No.6681916]

>>6681897
He means from the point of view of the travellers, not from the people staying around the stars.

As you get up to light speed, it's as if the universe shortens in the direction you travel, so you can travel any distance in arbitrarily small subjective time, even though you can't exceed light speed.

So, in theory, you can travel to another galaxy before you get hungry for lunch, then get back before you're ready for supper, but your wife is mad at you for being so late that the nice meal she cooked had time to evolve intelligent life on it.

[Anonymous No.6681917]

>>6681903
I completely disregard going "near light speed" as a viable option. It seems easier to chug along slower.

But, yeah, extending the field out in a narrow cone would definitely be better.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681920]

>wait for tortoises to evolve into sentient beings.
>200 year lifespan
>longer space missions.
>more discovery

[Anonymous No.6681930]

>>6681920
>wait for tortoises
Epic.

[Anonymous No.6681931]

>>6681908
>Unfortunately, anything in our path would have gargantuan kinetic energy in our frame of reference.(Due to relativity) Which means it would take gargantuan energy to deflect.
...which would be carried by any similar mass on the craft.

If you have a grain of dust coming in at 0.999c, if it impacts another grain of dust, they're just going to make an explosion where they hit each other. If you have that happen some distance from your main craft, it will have no effect on it.

However high the energy, the momentum is still small, which means there's very little power to penetrate.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681936]

>wait for the total Earth to evolve to have new plants, animals, chemicals, etc.
>evolve new abilities by being part of nature's equilibrium, produce anti-matter, have radar integrated into your senses, connect with the new types earth through bonding, maybe become magic beings through this who can produce fire from thine hands.

Think.

[Anonymous No.6681937]

>>6681903
1g of material at 90% of light speed has 1.163e14 joules of energy. The hiroshima little-boy bomb had about half that.(6.276e13)

An ablative foil will not help much against impacts that size.

[Anonymous No.6681940]

>>6681478
Enjoy your extintion faggot.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681942]

>>6681940
Yeah because we live in an evil world, I get it.

[Anonymous No.6681944]

>>6681936
>evolve new abilities by being part of nature's equilibrium
We're tired of your hippy shit gtfo we have genetic enhancement.

[Anonymous No.6681945]

>>6681776
Are you trying to write a coherent sentence? Because you're failing.

EMD is even stupider than Alcubierre, because it doesn't even work in theory. It's just another Dean drive.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6681946]

>>6681944
Hahaha if I'm a 'hippie' you're a 'crackhead'.

[Anonymous No.6681947]

>>6681864
lolz, ahhhh hippies who rub dirt on there face and say I am one with earth, you probably pray to the wind. You have no scientific background, and probably no job. I hope your alcoholism keeps your warm.

[Anonymous No.6681950]

>>6681937
First of all, there's not much in the way of 1 g chunks in interstellar space. Interstellar space is very empty. Even grains of dust are rare.

Secondly: what do you think a double-hiroshima explosion is going to do from a thousand kilometers away? Blast effects fall off with the square of the distance.

You've got to think harder about the physics of this. These are high energy impacts, but low momentum ones. You only need very thin shielding, well separated from the main craft.

[Anonymous No.6681952]

>>6681931
"the momentum is still small"

That isn't true at all. Mass grows with velocity in relativity, so momentum grows as well.(because momentum scales with *mass* and velocity)

[Anonymous No.6681955]

>>6681946
>If I'm, you are Y.
Argumentum infantile ad hominem.
>technology is antinatural
>we must be in some sort of equilibrium with nature
>not hippy
>accuses others of doing drugs because he can't give a good argument
>>>/s4s/
Even in /pol/ there are better idiots.

[Anonymous No.6681962]

>>6681950
"there's not much in the way of 1 g chunks in interstellar space."
That was my original point. We're finding are lots of chunks of stuff in the space. Each time we build a telescope to look a little further, we find more stuff, and we move the outer boundary of the oort cloud out a little bit further.

"what do you think a double-hiroshima explosion is going to do from a thousand kilometers away?"
Destroy our "ablative foil." Leading to destruction on the second impact.

[Anonymous No.6681969]

>>6681952
It's still small. Try doing the math instead of rationalizing your prejudices.

Besides, it's relativity. One colliding object's reference frame isn't favored over the other's. It isn't that one has all of this extra relativistic momentum and the other doesn't.

An object with a small rest mass isn't hard to shield against no matter how fast it's moving at you, if you know which direction it's coming from and have unlimited space to work with.

[Anonymous No.6681970]

And since we've drawn the boundary of the oort cloud almost half way to proxima centauri, we have every reason to expect another oort cloud around proxima centauri. Unless you think the oort cloud is a feature that is unique to our stellar system.

And if the proxima oort cloud covers half the distance from the proxima side and the sol cloud covers half the distance from the sol side, Then there is a continuous cloud of debris covering the full distance between us and our nearest neighbor....new observations do not bode well for the prospects of relativistic speed exploration.

[Anonymous No.6681975]

>>6681962
>Destroy our "ablative foil." Leading to destruction on the second impact.
That's why you have more than one layer, and a system for repairing damaged sections.

You're talking about engineering considerations as if they're impossible obstacles.

Of all the challenges of interstellar travel, this is among the most trivial and easily overcome.

[Anonymous No.6681977]

>>6681942
no not evil, its quite awesome, but its fucking callus, it doesn't care about me, you, my dog, my fucking sweet shirt collection, or my masters. Prepare for the worst hope for the best

[Anonymous No.6681979]

>>6681472
captcha: 514
no joke

[Anonymous No.6681984]

>>6681975
I guess it is all "engineering considerations" but those are what make the difference between feasible and impractical.

[Anonymous No.6681990]

>>6681970
The Oort cloud isn't some Empire Strikes Back asteroid field with rocks so close to each other that they're constantly bumping together. It's very close to being empty space, especially as you get farther out.

Large obstacles could be detected from very far away and avoided. Medium-size ones can be detected from far off and broken up with active defense systems such as particle beams. Small particles can be handled by the shielding.

The outer Oort cloud is essentially interstellar space.

[Anonymous No.6681993]

>>6681984
Instead of posting these considerations as quickly as you can think of them, and presenting them as if they're rational objections to the possibility of effective shielding, why not take a minute and see if you can think of how a shielding system could deal with them?

Because it's really not hard to see how, if you make an honest effort.

[Anonymous No.6681994]

>>6681510
em drive is still a drive, meaning you go with 1g or it's fucking uncomfortable. it just has better fuel efficiency and longer range than conventional drive.

[Anonymous No.6681995]

>>6681478
this, definitely this.

space heads should be isolated.

[Anonymous No.6681996]

>>6681995
still i want to see a real space battle before i die.

[Anonymous No.6682015]

>>6681993

I actually do space engineering for a living. When people start talking like you, it brings to mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_law

We already know it is physically possible, so mundane "engineering considerations" are all that stand in our way.

If we accelerate a limitless quantity of mass to continuously rebuild our ablative shield, sure great, because now we're accelerating mass to a large fraction of the speed of light for free?

Practically, the cost to survive the impacts along our journey is the cost to accelerate a mass equal to all the mass in the cross sectional area of our path. Estimates of that mass have grown as we've made additional observations, meaning that the difficulty of our task has grown.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682026]

>>6682015
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.6682028]

>>6681558

The main problem of intercontinental travel is it takes months to get across oceans and messages will take much more significant periods of time to reach their destination...

It's almost like you want to be ruled. Who cares if other places are more independent.

[Anonymous No.6682035]

>>6681639
>Why mine ore or rare earth metals in a planetary system lightyears away if you could dig up the stuff from earth itself at smaller costs than fitting an interstellar mission + mining operation

Resources are not unlimited and some minerals are not very common; Earth will probably run out of all of its current resources within 1000 years. Lets say Earth didn't have a lot of diamond or gold (it has plenty of it, actually); there are planets that are jam-packed with gold or diamond, just waiting to be mined.

[Anonymous No.6682044]

>>6682026

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682050]

>>6682028
That's because you're supposed to be hunting for food and pushing your body to limits, not driving round in cars, boats and other vehicles. You're retarded. You could be in natural equilibrium right now and know in your self that you were the best that you can be for your genetics, what you will become in the future is far greater on the traditional natural route into the future. Instead, the future of human kind will not progress at all, and we will actually digress in places as nature around us gets worse. You are a mental case, you are unworthy of life on the planet. You can't fathom the true mother of your species, you look for other planets that aren't no where near as advanced as Earth, and you plan the terraform them, all the while destroying the planet Earth to do this (which will never happen). There will never be FTL travel, and therefore space travel will only ever be in local areas. It's a massive fail. You will destroy the home planet, and be the reason our species goes extinct prematurely. Go kill your self for humanity.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682054]

[Anonymous No.6682055]

>future

full of niggers, maybe except eastern asia

[Anonymous No.6682061]

>>6682015
>I actually do space engineering for a living.
Probably not true, and completely unimpressed if is. Lots of mediocre engineers doing space technology, with the stalled industry we've had for the last few decades. It tends to be extremely conservative because nobody wants to risk having anything fail by trying something new. That kind of work doesn't attract talent or creative thinkers.

>If we accelerate a limitless quantity of mass to continuously rebuild our ablative shield, sure great, because now we're accelerating mass to a large fraction of the speed of light for free?
We don't need to "continuously rebuild our ablative shield" with a "limitless quantity of mass" because there will be very few impacts, and extremely few impacts larger than a grain of dust, because interstellar space is essentially empty.

Besides, you could set it up to recapture much of the ablated material, along with material from the impactor.

[Anonymous No.6682074]

>>6681472

It will happen, it will look very different than what we originally imagined. You would only need big ships for cargo operations. Maybe even mining. Most everything else is being visited by the miniaturization ferry.

>>6681478

Get fucked.

Advancing as a species doesn't help when you don't have a world and you go extinct. The earth is not alive, go back to hugging your fucking trees. It is merely a muddy ball of mold and dirt with a molten core. Generally if we do not succeed something else somewhere else will take our place. That said, there have been many an occasion that we nearly lost earth due to chance, and the cause of said destruction would not have come from us.

The only way in evolve and advance is to secure a safer home in the void and the resources that are waiting for us. Also, if you haven't been paying attention, it was technology which brought our prosperity. You want to be a Luddite, that's fine, don't drag me with you. You can even stay on this planet and be with your nature when nature finally flings a gigantic fucking rock your way that won't just barely miss.

I swear, our world is fucking overrun with avatar-fags, and moonbats. At any-rate, life extension is coming around and technology may actually be the salvation our strained ecosystem needed. We may be ruining things, but in the end, we are also the only ones that can save our world as it is now, and even take our ecosystem to new worlds.

In the end though, I doubt we will see definitive space travel in the next 500 years. But we will see ti eventually. We already know the other worlds are full of exploitable goodness, and we are started to find ways to get at them. When we start exploiting our asteroid belts, things will become significantly less strained.

New advances in chemistry and metallurgy will allow the creation of ultra durable synthetics which will also help out with things.


schooled toncti = Cap

[Anonymous No.6682076]

I never understood why we bother with dreaming of expanding across the galaxy and universe when eventually entropy will bring an end to everything. It seems like so much work for nothing. Might as well just focus on earth, mars and maybe one exoplanet max. We're doomed beings

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682082]

>>6682074
>he doesn't care if we don't succeed, yet the leaders of our species support what he is saying.

[Anonymous No.6682089]

>>6682035
Just mine landfills. Use nanobots that go inside extract usable materials and come out.

[Anonymous No.6682094]

Is this the space general thread?

http://news.yahoo.com/japan-launch-military-space-force-report-054548014.html

>Japan is planning to launch a military space force by 2019 that would initially be tasked with protecting satellites from dangerous debris orbiting the Earth, a report said.

So according to Planetes;
>the gap between poor and wealthy will increase
>we'll have human colonies on the moon (2030) and Mars (2040-50)
>we'll have commercialized space flights regularly
>2077 we go to Jupiter

[Anonymous No.6682095]

>>6682061
"you could set it up to recapture much of the ablated material"

Capturing it is just equivalent to accelerating the mass, as the act of capturing slows you down.

"Lots of mediocre engineers doing space technology"

Lots of mediocre engineers in any field. By definition, any field will be dominated by average engineers.

"It tends to be extremely conservative because nobody wants to risk having anything fail by trying something new. "

You're speaking out of ignorance, but...It tends to be conservative because the cost of projects are high, so the cost of failure is high. This is true of any engineering field with expensive projects filled with single point failures.

But there has been lots of progress on that front lately(reducing risk & cost), moving to nanosats and microsats has opened the door to low cost experimentation.

[Anonymous No.6682096]

>>6682074

Con't:

It isn't a matter of whether or not we will make it to space, we will if our luck holds and we get our shit together.

It is more a matter of having a vocal population of retards that espouse misanthropy and self-flagellation. It's almost like it was taken from the script of a idiotic Star Trek episode coupled with the cheesiness of a captain planet short.

Anyways, again and forever, get fucked by a tree and join your friends as do us all a favor and shove themselves feet-first into an industrial wood-chipper.

[Anonymous No.6682098]

>>6682089
That still won't help; it'll just buy us another 50 years.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682101]

>>6682089
He says 'extract usable materials' so confidently and he is given an intelligent image by the Government education and propaganda, but future humans will suffer because of his decision, and other people like him, they wouldn't have said it was a good decision. You are totally careless about future generations.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682103]

These people are not intelligent, don't follow these people. You know it pisses me off, some of you... How stupid you are is disgusting, I will forever show my disgust for the extent of my life.

[Anonymous No.6682111]

>>6682103

[Anonymous No.6682115]

>>6682076

This might be true, but again, it is yet another challenge. Why do you bother living when you will just die anyways. What is the point of having a job, getting married and having children? Getting into domestic disputes, losing your children and eventually getting your divorce finalized and having everything wrenched away from you?

Everything has the potential to end (horribly at times). But the marvelous thing about our species is we can eventually challenge all outcomes and even pick ourselves up from the brink. We may not win, but we can at least try.

[Anonymous No.6682117]

This thread has lots of retarded pessimism.

Faggots will claim that anything is impossible with absolute certainty, then somebody does it and these same faggots claim they knew it was inevitable from the beginning.

Part of it stems from the fact that technology is not always a steady progression and often moves in dramatic jumps caused by new ideas and new discoveries.

The triple expansion steam engine was building off the double expansion steam engine, the steam turbine was completely different.

[Anonymous No.6682118]

>>6682096

Typo Correction:

friends as they do us all a favor...*

[Anonymous No.6682126]

>>6682103
Stop being such a pessimistic asshole; it's people like you that is the reason the government cut NASA's budget.

>>6682111
You're using that meme incorrectly.
>I have identified your intentions in being an unsuccessful ruser

[Anonymous No.6682130]

>>6682098
How about this. Improved energy systems will make nucleosynthesis a viable method. Compounds are even easier to produce.

Why would you need so much gold? Doesn't the future consist of graphene? Carbon is abundand in the asteroid belt.

[Anonymous No.6682132]

>>6682076
Who knows what undreamt of technologies we will have by then? There's a good chance we might eventually discover the solutions to our problems. Only time will tell.

[Anonymous No.6682134]

>>6682095
>Capturing it is just equivalent to accelerating the mass, as the act of capturing slows you down.
Do you even physics?

If it the capture is anywhere near complete, it's equivalent to accelerating the mass of what you collide with. You'd have to lose much of the material in a forward direction for it to cause a reverse acceleration proportional to the energy of the impact rather than the inertia of the impactor.

An impact with a stationary microgram dust grain might knock apart a gram of material from the shield. If you capture that material and reassemble it into a shield layer, that's a gram of replacement material you didn't need to accelerate.

[Anonymous No.6682153]

>>6682130
>Why would you need so much gold
I was just using it as an example, but gold is a good conductor for heat.

No matter what we do, here, it will run out, soon; nothing is unlimited/infinite. Mining another planet or satellite will help decrease the cost in using a resource because it'll be more abundant; colonizing another planet/satellite will allow us to last longer, as a species.

Earth is a small planet and it will become overpopulated with people, if we don't do anything about it.

[Anonymous No.6682158]

>>6682134
"An impact with a stationary microgram dust grain might knock apart a gram of material from the shield."

It is roughly an elastic collision. The "knocked apart" material is now moving towards you with the energy of the dust grain, if you stop that material, you decelerate. There isn't a free lunch here. Maybe you prevent the damage to your ship, but ultimately, the energy lost dealing with that dust grain will be the energy required to accelerate it to your speed.

Practically, there will be some matter to energy conversion in a collision that energetic, so some of the energy will radiate laterally, but I don't think you can count on it being that much.

[Anonymous No.6682163]

>>6682153
Its only third worlders, in both their old countries and the developed world, who have children above replacement. People native to developed countries have children near replacement.

[Anonymous No.6682166]

>>6682158
>>6682134
how about we just fucking angle the shield so elastic collisions just bounce off? Or we do that sci-fi thing where you charge the matter in front of you and push it to the side with a field?

[Anonymous No.6682169]

>>6682153
Graphene can do everything.

[Anonymous No.6682173]

>>6682153
Population growth rate is decreasing

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682176]

>>6682126
Fuck off modern scientist scum, you and your child-murdering ideologies.

[Anonymous No.6682191]

>>6682158
>>Do you even physics?
>Not even slightly.
Thanks for clearing that up.

>The "knocked apart" material is now moving towards you with the energy of the dust grain, if you stop that material, you decelerate.
It's moving toward you with the momentum of the dust grain. It's expanding in all directions with the energy of the dust grain.

In an epic scale closed-sided whipple shield constructed of atom-thick aluminum foil, for instance, most of the vaporized material from a typical impact would coat the next layer and the side walls. Periodically, you would cut a couple of layers off (with side walls), move them to the back and reconstruct them at the proper dimensions.

> the energy lost dealing with that dust grain will be the energy required to accelerate it to your speed.
This is more or less what I said: the energy required to accelerate the dust grain to your speed. Whoop-de-doo.

Not the energy required to accelerate the larger mass of ablated material from your shield to your speed.

[Anonymous No.6682192]

>>6682176
aether, just go.

[Anonymous No.6682194]

>>6682163
>Its only third worlders, in both their old countries and the developed world, who have children above replacement

You said it; third-worlders will overpopulate the planet.

>>6682169
Shut the fuck up about graphene; for all we know, nanobots will kill off the human population. Nanotechnology will not completely solve the problem.

>>6682173
It doesn't mean it won't dramatically increase, one day, and continue that way, for decades.

>>6682176
I'm not a scientist.

[Anonymous No.6682212]

>>6682166

Still no free lunch.

At that speed angle is irrelevant, probably better to model the dust as a particle cloud, because the energy in the bonds is much less than the energy of the collision. Even if there were deflection, your ship would just be accelerated to the side and you'd need to expend energy to right your course.

With respect to fields, the particle exerts a force on the field, and the field exerts a force on the ship. So you still lose the same energy.

Speaking of unoriginal ideas. If you propose we use the captured material in fusion, you'll have a Bussard Ramjet. Probably infeasible, but you're on the right track to reach the state of the art of half a century ago for this type of theorizing.

[Anonymous No.6682235]

>>6682191
>This is more or less what I said: the energy required to accelerate the dust grain to your speed. Whoop-de-doo.

You don't read so good.

I said this like an hour ago:
>Practically, the cost to survive the impacts along our journey is the cost to accelerate a mass equal to all the mass in the cross sectional area of our path. Estimates of that mass have grown as we've made additional observations, meaning that the difficulty of our task has grown.

Which, given means you've been bumbling around; not realizing the implication of your statement is tantamount to agreement.

If the cost of each *individual* impact is the cost to accelerate that mass, then the total cost is the cost of accelerating all the mass along our cross sectional area to our velocity at time of impact.

[Anonymous No.6682236]

>>6682194
>It doesn't mean it won't dramatically increase, one day, and continue that way, for decades.

You're right. There is a minute chance of population growth rates increasing, but in developed countries it is unusual to have more than two children, popultaion increase in said countries comes from immigration.

[Anonymous No.6682263]

>>6682235
>You don't read so good.

You also said this, bozo:
>Capturing it is just equivalent to accelerating the mass, as the act of capturing slows you down.

In this exchange:
>>>If we accelerate a limitless quantity of mass to continuously rebuild our ablative shield, sure great, because now we're accelerating mass to a large fraction of the speed of light for free?
>>We don't need to "continuously rebuild our ablative shield" with a "limitless quantity of mass" because there will be very few impacts, and extremely few impacts larger than a grain of dust, because interstellar space is essentially empty.
>>Besides, you could set it up to recapture much of the ablated material, along with material from the impactor.
>Capturing it is just equivalent to accelerating the mass, as the act of capturing slows you down.

You clearly claimed that capturing any ablated mass of the shield was equivalent to accelerating enough mass to replace the ablated portion, in defending your earlier idiocy of saying we'd need a "limitless quantity of mass to continuously rebuild our ablative shield".

Anyway:
>Practically, the cost to survive the impacts along our journey is the cost to accelerate a mass equal to all the mass in the cross sectional area of our path.
This sets no minimum cost on moving mass between stars. It may be a reason to build a longer, thinner vehicle to fit behind a smaller shield.

In any case, this is changing your original objection, which is that we couldn't build a craft to survive impacts. Now you're claiming there's too much drag in interstellar space from all the dust, which is fucking ludicrous.

[Anonymous No.6682307]

>>6682263
I never said the cost of capturing the ablative mass would be the cost of accelerating it from rest. You assumed that. Incorrectly.

>This sets no minimum cost on moving mass between stars.

Only if you make retarded assumptions that it is just a "trivial" engineering problem to build a craft with cross-sectional area approaching zero. Otherwise it clearly bounds the cost.

>In any case, this is changing your original objection, which is that we couldn't build a craft to survive impacts.

I'm not changing the subject. You said it would be just an "engineering consideration" I agree. There is no physical law preventing building a craft with an arbitrarily large ablative shield. If you expected me to argue it was in violation of physical law, you'll have to go find another rube.

Where we disagree is that I don't think this will be practical. I think that engineering problems are often hard and often harder than we think they are even when we recognize that they're hard. But trying to arbitrate that issue here is kinda stupid, because there is no way to assess whether the cost is too much without the context of an energy/mass budget.

[Anonymous No.6682352]

>>6682307
>I never said the cost of capturing the ablative mass would be the cost of accelerating it from rest. You assumed that. Incorrectly.
You said that. There is no other reasonable interpretation.

>>>If we accelerate a limitless quantity of mass to continuously rebuild our ablative shield, sure great
>>you could set it up to recapture much of the ablated material
>Capturing it is just equivalent to accelerating the mass

>>In any case, this is changing your original objection, which is that we couldn't build a craft to survive impacts.
>I'm not changing the subject.
Not changing the subject, changing your position from a stupid one to an even more stupid one.

You started out trying to claim that it was impossible to shield against the impacts, and demonstrated your total incompetence at physics trying to defend this claim.

Then you shifted to claiming that it was infeasible because we'd have to accelerate the amount of dust that's in the way up to the speed of the craft, as if drag in interstellar space was a major consideration.

Stop acting as if these are reasonable objections. They're not. This is you acting like you understand something you either haven't made a serious attempt to think about, or lack the capacity to comprehend.

>There is no physical law preventing building a craft with an arbitrarily large ablative shield.
There you are again with your "arbitrarily large" mass requirement for shielding, sneaking in an irrational, ignorant implication that the shielding mass requirement would be some infeasibly huge number. I've explained how you might make the shield. There's no reason for it to be a major component of the total system mass. You put an almost arbitrarily small mass of shielding an arbitrary distance out ahead of the main craft (which you can do, because interstellar space).

[Anonymous No.6682353]

>>6682236
What is the Babby Boom?

[Anonymous No.6682358]

>>6681774
obvious samefag is obvious

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682370]

>>6682358
u jelly?

[Anonymous No.6682381]

>>6682358
No.

[Anonymous No.6682397]

>>6682370
lol wtf is jelly?

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682398]

>>6682397
Fuck off, peon.

[Anonymous No.6682399]

>>6682398
>u wot m8 fite me irl

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682401]

>>6682399
I've got a bad back :(

[Anonymous No.6682405]

>>6682398
What is "peon"? Is that a type of subatomic body?

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682407]

>>6682405
Low-ranking, of low-prestige.

[Anonymous No.6682408]

>>6682407
>Low-ranking, of low-prestige.
This is an anonymous image board. That shit you call prestige does not exist.

[Anonymous No.6682409]

>>6682076
>Why do I bother getting out of bed in the morning when the heat death of the universe slowly approaches?

Why the fuck does anybody do anything? What a stupid reason to be apathetic.

[Anonymous No.6682416]

>>6681478
>all of that samefagging
>hippy trippy bullshit

filtered

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682417]

We were born on the planet, is this not enough evidence that it's of importance? Fucking retards, I hope there is a shift of power and we become more natural :'''(

[Anonymous No.6682428]

>>6682417
We are natural. Technology is natural because we are humans and we make technology.
Why are you using a computer if you hate unnatural things?

[Anonymous No.6682434]

>>6682428
he's baiting you moron

[Anonymous No.6682558]

>>6682050
Then why are you on a computer made from "unnatural" materials, and after all, there are computers in cars. Go chase a deer.

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682567]

>>6682558
Because you're destroying the environment. Technically I'm "the one" in the Matrix. You don't know how retarded you are. Man made things are not natural if they are anti-nature.

[Anonymous No.6682571]

>>6682567
>I have autism

[aether !MZfbsXC0kE No.6682573]

>they posted in this thread seriously

[Anonymous No.6682593]

>>6682567
Embrace new nature, faggot!

[Anonymous No.6682597]

>>6682050
>There will never be FTL travel
If aether says it, the opposite must be true. Thanks for confirming FTL buddy!

[Anonymous No.6682761]

>>6681478
we'll invest all our money in companies that beleive in space exploration, whilst you invest all your $12 in companies that oppose space exploration.
Simple.

[Anonymous No.6682783]

>>6681765
>1765▶>>6681776
>File: Girls.png (490 KB, 449x401)
yeah, and 150 years ago the idea of going to the moon was a known impossibility.

>inb4 >moon >landing >hoax

[Anonymous No.6682784]

>>6681531

isn't fusion the solution to energy needs, pretty much forever?

I know there are enormous limitations now, but we're speaking hypothetically about a century from now, which is when we're all dead.

[Anonymous No.6682901]

>>6682353
a short-lived spike that didn't even go above birth rates from 40 years prior

[Anonymous No.6682956]

Real live space rocket's launching in a few minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sTMJJggZA

Falcon 9 putting a comsat in orbit. No lower stage recovery attempt this time, they're going for maximum performance.

[Anonymous No.6682969]

>>6681478
Sounds like hippie talk to me.

[Anonymous No.6682972]

>>6682784
Sure, but what resources do you need to build and maintain it? After the R&D.

Not to mention energy doesn't eliminate the need for other resources - hell it wouldn't even eliminate the need to drill for oil since we still need petroleum based products (plastics, oils, etc).

Resource and population pressures would be the most direct means of instigating off planet colonization. The Australia or "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" idea of a penal colony that acts as the pioneers - that eventually leads way to an independent colony of its own.

[Anonymous No.6682981]

>>6682956
They're talking like everything is perfect, so I bet this is the first time they blow one up.

Come watch the fireball!

[Anonymous No.6683002]

Stop replying to the tripfag, fuck

[Anonymous No.6683005]

>you will never be part of a civilization fit to stride the stars and shatter its adversaries

[Anonymous No.6683022]

>>6681669

The likely-hood is much higher than zero, much, much higher. Your example using Africa is ludicrous. You forget that there is the rest of the world making steady technological advances. Liquid data storage where a spoonful of the stuff could hold 8TB of data, cybernetics, new medical advances, including potential cures and treatments for both Ebola and HIV. Across all fronts we are advancing. Africa has not advanced, and it cannot set itself to build the required infrastructure, but others have. It is not unified, eventually we will have to come together.

Private concerns are picking up the slack where organizations like NASA are dropping it. We know there is materials in space, we are working to get those materials as a race. We are also looking at efficient energy production, beyond hazardous fossil fuels.

There is also the work that goes into creating new synthetic materials that outmatch most of our naturally found materials. New alloys, etc. To get to where we are at now, it took many years and advances. The rest of humanity used to live like the poor souls trapped in Africa. Yet here you are posting on the internet, in which not very long ago in our lifetimes, geocities was a thing.

As far as economies are concerned, those evolved to. You now order things at the click of a mouse. We might even see the expansion of drone use for mail delivery. Infrastructures require time and innovation to improve. But they do.

By the time we start leaving our system, we may as a race live on a world that is almost alien to what we would know of it today. Technologically and culturally.

>>6681709

Earth will not last forever, thus we need to find a safe harbor elsewhere. If you can grow food on a space station, why not? Why are you so against space travel? Just curious? Finding a home in space could greatly lengthen our existence and give us a contingency against extinction.

Our you a misanthrope? There is no logical reason not make our way in space.

[Anonymous No.6683077]

>>6683022

Typo Correction:

Are you a misanthrope?*

[Anonymous No.6683122]

>>6683022
>Why are you so against space travel?

I'm not. It just seems that people seem to see space as a necessity and the ultimate solution to the ensuing problems if earth becomes "uninhabitable" when space is always more uninhabitable.

e.g. soil poluted/infertile on Earth -> solution: agriculture in space

Many people just forget that you could do everything to create earthlike environments in space just as well on earth by building isolated domes or greenhouses, while its still cheaper minus all the problems you have from zero gravity, radition protection and risk of decompression.

Space colonization is still cool though. I'd like to have Banks orbitals or huge cylinder colonies. Wouldn't that be awesome? Orbitals at the sun-earth lagrange points?

[Anonymous No.6683170]

>>6683122
>space is always more uninhabitable.
There's a silly claim if I've ever heard one.

What do we do if there's enough dust or ash in the air that there's no sunlight? How about if the seas boil off, and we get a second Venus? What about a snowball Earth? Supervolcanoes, asteroid strikes, or war could do that.

For that matter, what if Earth becomes occupied by horrible assholes with powerful weapons? There's no environment less habitable than one full of well-armed and hostile humans.

Earth is already more hostile than many locations in space to some of our technology. You can get much more consistent, predictable environments, without Earth's extreme weather or other natural disasters.

[Anonymous No.6683180]

Thank you guys, I couldn't sleep and just decided to click on the thread to see if it was fun, and now I've added a new name to my collection of filtered faggots. Aether, whoever you are, I hope you get chronic herpes that recurs every month, I don't even care about your views, you're just the worst kind of human being, a tripfag. Don't bother replying.

[Anonymous No.6683229]

>>6683022

I think the africa example isn't quite as ludicrous as you might believe to be but if you feel that way it's fine.

Anyway, you can talk all you want about us advancing our technology at a steady rate but that means little in the end. Op asked what is the likelihood of the pic posted at the start of the thread in 50-100 years. I stated zero because we have no economy suited to support that level of space travel yet in 50-100 years.

Now you may believe we are capable of pulling such a feat in a short amount of time, but all you going to do is find yourself disappointed when the best we can muster is a fleet of space drones to explore the solar system instead of us.

A much better estimate for us is roughly 350 years. In that time at least a dozen countries should have economies able to support space related services on a competent level.

[Anonymous No.6683236]

>>6683229

Ah, I made the fatal assumption that you were stating that humanity will never make it to space. I know it isn't really likely to happen in the next 50 to 100 years. Unless of course someone were to make a series of ground breaking advancements.

Depending on what we discover there is at times, a sort of "burst" of rapid progress that can push things forward quite fast. But given the issues on our world, you are right, spaceflight will not happen int he immediate future.

But I still stand by my disdain for using Africa as an example. While divided and seemingly a parody of the greater world, it is still too far behind the times to be relevant.

Furthermore, if Africa could shed it's problems and unite, it could become a powerhouse. It is unlikely that that will happen. Maybe we need one last great war to finally reunite the earth and rise beyond our scattered ruins.

In such a short amount of time, I do believe we will at least start to dabble in Asteroid mining. And maybe even further exploration of the moon.

[Anonymous No.6683400]

>>6681889
>our ship would probably just run into a rock and explode pretty much instantly

implying collision detection works in real life with high speed.

[Anonymous No.6683460]

>>6683400
that would imply that light can go through solid objects, which in most cases it cant.

[Anonymous No.6683485]

>>6681761
actually mine isn't bolted down
and i do have to keep straightening it, but that's probably just from slamming the door

[Anonymous No.6683613]

>>6683460
Press a piece of paper against a lamp, does there still come light out of it?

[Anonymous No.6683617]

>>6683460
Nah they use ray-tracing for light

[Anonymous No.6683621]

>>6683613
shine a flashlight against one side of a concrete wall

does the light appear on the other side of the wall?

[Anonymous No.6683629]

The thought of living in a world like that terrifies me. There is absolutely no way to hide from society. You can't just run into the technology-free mountains and hide. There will always be a way that someone can find you quickly and easily with the insane level of tech that would exist everywhere.

[Anonymous No.6683961]

>>6683629

We have been heading that way for a long time. We will be there in "that" world, way before we go to space. Drone technology can be used for good but will be used for evil. The smallest drones will be able to record high definition footage, while only looking like a mosquito. Some will even be able to assassinate people. Not only that but surveillance technology is getting much better at what it does. Scientists and tinkerers are actually experimenting with cell-phone echo-location systems like that which was seen in the dark knight.

You thought guns were scary? Picture this scenario. You could be sitting at a computer in the night and feel a small sting on your neck. Then a few minutes later, you are paralyzed and dying. You must have pissed someone off somewhere but it's really pointless thinking about that.

The future is coming. And for every neat and cool and beneficial invention, there are many many more hazardous pitfalls waiting for us.

[Anonymous No.6683964]

>>6681472
Close to nil.

But hope springs eternal.

[Anonymous No.6684004]

>>6682981
turns out they had a glitch on the first countdown, but were able to reset and launch at the end of the window anyway. Falcon 9 1.1 now is 6 for 6, hefting their heaviest GEO payload yet.

Also, thought they didn't reserve enough fuel for a first stage landing, they had a successful supersonic reentry, including some footage from INSIDE the oxygen tank, to monitor fuel level and settling.

[Anonymous No.6684047]

>>6681478
this

[Anonymous No.6684125]

>>6681478
>like future is with nature myaan
Until a big meteor strikes the Earth and evaporates humanity because we decided that hugging trees was more important than widening our species' reach.

We will inevitably start pushing into space.

[Anonymous No.6684135]

>>6681950
>rare
Over what distance?
guarantee you'll hit dust if you are traveling from any habitable zone in a galaxy to another in a different one.

[Anonymous No.6686072]

What about a few meters of jelly around the ship. Any small particles get absorbed.

EZZZ

[Anonymous No.6687813]

>>6682567
i have been browsing /sci/ for a good day now, and while i'm not as well versed on science and shit as most people here i'll tell you one thing
You are as cancerous to the human race as you think the human race is to earth

don't bother replying or trying to save face (going against the entire point of 4chan) with an "ironic ebin maymay" or a shitty emoticon because i'm leaving /sci/.

[Anonymous No.6689536]

>>6681558
Communication through quantum entanglement.

[Anonymous No.6689748]

>>6684125
>Hugging trees is stupid. Space travel is the only way to preserve our species, so it is inevitable.
>implying politicians or bland and timid masses give a shit about preserving the human race.
>implying any and all money that ought to be going towards terra-forming research is going to Welfare and pork projects.
>implying we won't stick to this shit rock until the bitter end.
Ah, to be thirteen again.

[Anonymous No.6689751]

>>6681815
>No, educators and our leaders are killing us, and science is obviously not real science if it doesn't register this as something we should understand about the universe.
Huh? W-what? Can you form a coherent though, please?

[Anonymous No.6689774]

>>6681478
Yes it would be best if you lot did that.
Having only one target would be wonderful, RKVs are resource-intensive you know.

[Anonymous No.6690061]

>>6682074
>We already know the other worlds are full of exploitable goodness
this is what gets to me the most. we're like the kid in the proverbial candy store, but all the goodies are locked away behind bulletproof glass... so close, but so very frustratingly far away

we have to make this work, we just fucking have to. space exploration is our ticket to godhood.

[Anonymous No.6690071]

>>6681478
this

[Anonymous No.6690106]

>>6689748
woah, what a good rebuttal! wow, seriously, you are so enlightened

[Anonymous No.6690111]

>>6681472

0 chance, we are all too busy killing each other over religion race and resources.

Resources that we use to kill each other, more efficiently, of course.

[Anonymous No.6690150]

>>6689748
>Implying implicatorial implyingness.

[Anonymous No.6690151]

To build ships the shape of the ones in OP would have to be from a dock in space because only rockets can make it into space.

/thread

[Anonymous No.6690152]

>>6690111
>religion race and resources.
Kill all Christians and take down dictatorial Muslim governments.

[Anonymous No.6690158]

>>6690152
Yes, save the Jews! Good goy...

[Anonymous No.6690168]

>>6681536
Would your grandpa imagine the smartphone happening when he was your age?

[Anonymous No.6690172]

>>6681478
you are delusional if you belieive that.

[Anonymous No.6690180]

>>6690172
I don't kneejerk hate all tripcode users, like most of 4chan, but seriously, everyone needs to fucking filter this faggot and quit replying to him, unless everyone calling him on his shit, is just him samefagging to promote his own posts, which wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Anonymous No.6690210]

>>6681478
>The true dream of the future is evolution, through nature

Fuck off cancer.

[Anonymous No.6690212]

>>6681738
Jesus Christ. The "null" drive was NOT the control drive. There was a control drive and it did not produce any thrust. The null drive was for testing if a specific feature of the drive was relevant to the overall operation; turns out it wasn't.

I mean, I was skeptical at first, but we now have positive experiments from reputable testing sites in both China and the US. A sane stance right now would be that we need further testing.

[Anonymous No.6690269]

>>6687813
>don't bother replying or trying to save face (going against the entire point of 4chan) with an "ironic ebin maymay" or a shitty emoticon because i'm leaving /sci/.

Which means, of course, that you're waiting for a response as we speak.

[Anonymous No.6690320]

It's happening pretty soon, actually. The US Government invented FTL about 6 months ago.

They're going to make damn sure that we have a monopoly on the technology before releasing it, so it isn't going to see the light of day for about 10 years. But, after that, expect some seriously crazy shit.

[Anonymous No.6690327]

>>6690212
>The "null" drive was NOT the control drive.
It was and it wasn't. The paper refers to both the unslotted device and a resistor as the "null". It's badly written.

>There was a control drive and it did not produce any thrust.
Both the resistor and the unslotted device measured thrust. They believe they understand the former but have not tested it.

>The null drive was for testing if a specific feature of the drive was relevant to the overall operation; turns out it wasn't.
No. Under the understanding of the person who designed this drive it shouldn't have worked at all. EmDrive is dead.

>reputable testing sites in both China and the US
No. This group is not reputable. They in the past also validated an anti-gravity effect, before realising it was an error. The Chinese group didn't spot that the original calculations were bunk, still got the results they expected and now won't answer questions. This is not reputable. They haven't produced any statistics and some of the results have zero repeated trials. This is not a conclusive experiment.

It requires further testing but we should not forget that the NASA result "measured" orders of magnitude less thrust than the Chinese version and the original claim.

[Anonymous No.6690328]

>>6690320
>>>/x/

Roleplay is that way.

[Anonymous No.6690350]

>>6681516
a 10 second wikipedia search could have saved you some face. alcubierre is a very stupid concept, that works well on paper, but literally breaks physics.

[Anonymous No.6690355]

>>6690320
>The US Government invented FTL about 6 months ago.
>[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.6690361]

>>6690355
i'm sorry but that information is classified

[Anonymous No.6692482]

>>6689536
You can't send information with quantum entanglement, only encrypt it

[Anonymous No.6692484]

>>6690361
Didn't you just give us that information?

[Anonymous No.6692510]

>>6690350

>Wikipedia: The metric of this form has significant difficulties because all known warp-drive spacetime theories violate various energy conditions.[15] Nevertheless, Alcubierre type warp might be realized by exploiting certain experimentally verified quantum phenomena, such as the Casimir effect, that lead to stress–energy tensors that also violate the energy conditions, such as negative mass–energy, when described in the context of the quantum field theories.[16][17]

>"has difficulties but might be possible"

that's different from "literally breaks physics"

dumbo

[Anonymous No.6692580]

>>6692484
What information?

[Anonymous No.6692597]

50-100 years

TOP FUCKING KEK
you know what will be different in 50-100 years? your phone will have twice as much storage and last 1.5 times as long

[Anonymous No.6692607]

>>6681472

zero

[Anonymous No.6692608]

>>6692597
Kettle calling the pot nigger.

[Anonymous No.6692628]

>>6692597
>your phone will have twice as much storage and last 1.5 times as long

this happens every six months

[Anonymous No.6692634]

>>6692628
obviously I was driving the argument ad absurdum, so you would get the point

literally all the technology we have is motors, light bulbs and computers

[Anonymous No.6692647]

>>6681503
Patent that shit

[Anonymous No.6692668]

>>6692580
You said the government has FTL. If it's classified, then even mentioning that it exists would bring down a world of hurt on you.

[Anonymous No.6692673]

>>6681472
Well, since aliens exist and disclosure is near, somewhat likely.

[Anonymous No.6692690]

we will only enter space when the quantum skeletons allow it

don't expect it any time soon

[Anonymous No.6692713]

There are too many political and humanitarian obstacles for this to be possible in a reasonable amount of time. Sorry OP

[Anonymous No.6692723]

>>6690061
"Risks of Flowering: considerable. But rewards of godhood: who can measure?"

[Anonymous No.6692738]

>>6681595
>tfw born too soon

[Anonymous No.6692740]

>>6681472
I assume your picture depicts a space settlement on another planet? If so, I say, yes, hell yes.

SpaceX is already developing reusable rockets and NASA is prioritising transportation vehicle engineering. In 10-20 years, they could perfect it, and make it possible to transport regular life supplies and materials to sustain settlements on other planets like Mars (easily within an affordable reach.)

10-20 years is also the time it will take us to figure out how to live on other planets permentantly or long-term. I'm saying this because of MarsOne which aims to do this, but also because investigating permentant settlement on other planets will advance virtually every field in science, so it is definitly not going to be overlooked.

After we have transportation and permentant (albeit small and modest) settlement we can figure out how to build a metal refinery on Mars, which could take local resources and make building materials out of them, enabling a proper town to be built there, and to have a real, expanding, human settlement within 50 years.

I participated, and then helped run a competition for under 18 year olds which is run by NASA and involves them designing hypothetical space settlements for large populations (10,000+) on planets such as Mars or the Moon and planning out virtually everything that will be required for them, and the kids come up with great feasable ideas.

Which is why I am confident that there will be a permenant settlement on Mars within our lifetime and to which I will be fucking off to as soon as it opens up.

[Anonymous No.6692742]

>>6681920
why are we not trying to accelerate the evolution of not retarded animals on earth ?
like dolphins or elephants or whatever

[Anonymous No.6692764]

>>6692742
Don't forget subsaharians and australian abos.
South america, india, the middle-east and north africa could use the help too.

[Anonymous No.6692779]

>>6692764
back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.6692784]

>>6692742
>accelerate evolution

[Anonymous No.6693535]

Colonising plants won't be possible unless we reach post-scarcity

[Anonymous No.6693550]

>>6681498
>>6681498
This. Mining operations are the most likely event for us to witness. Maybe we will colonize Mars if we figure out a way to transport trees or other plants in big enough numbers. Shit, so much needs to be worked on not just from a pure science standpoint, but engineering too. Its a massive risk to go into space already.

[Anonymous No.6693554]

>>6681558
>Earth cannot possibly rule her extrasolar colonies, so they have to be established by independent corporations and coalitions. This could as well pave the way to an interstellar war, which would destroy parts of colonies.

Anarchy is the future. Fighting a war that takes years to even get to the frontlines/give orders is a retarded concept anyway. No one would show up.

[Anonymous No.6693556]

>>6681498
>have a few planets
>only need Earth to survive
>Government destroying the planet
>Support Government
You fucking moron.

[Anonymous No.6693562]

>>6693535
But anon, at that point, to colonize planets will be as easy as to fart.
We will only do it because we will be bored.

[Anonymous No.6693579]

>>6693562
Fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.6693602]

>>6681472
I'd say absolutely not, I mean WTF that ship appears to have it's center of thrust off it's center of mass, it's gonna spin like crazy!

And all these ships don't have huge radiators for getting rid of the obviously enormous amounts of heat they'd need to reject, it may be the future, but thermodynamics ain't gonna change.

And why the fuck are they just burning their engines willy-nilly? What the fuck kind of orbit are those swerving guys trying to achieve?

Why is that big ship doing a burn really close to that other big ship, because either those are some inefficient engines or that other ship's gonna get a taste of some 10,000 K engine exhaust

The fuck kind of future is this? It's obviously one where everyone is incompetent

[Anonymous No.6693650]

>>6692742
Because we would just be making them more like humans. The endpoint of that would be a human and we already have those.

[Anonymous No.6694122]

lol ... these kids dreaming about space colonization. That simply will never happen, all life on this planet will end on this planet. Life, intelligence are fucking meaningless near to astronomical events. Probably started and ended in countless places. Singularity will also never happen.