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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6677653 No.6677653 [Reply] [Original]

Do you believe consciousness is something that can be transferred? I personally don't, I believe a person's consciousness is tied to their brain, and while it could be replicated elsewhere, that would not be the same conscious person as the original. I would stop at Avatar B of the 2045 Avatar project, where would you stop?

>> No.6677666

>>6677653
By 2045 we will start hunting down /sci/ shitposters, consciousness posters and transhumanist faggots.

>> No.6677667

nobody's in the mood for some transhumanism?

>> No.6677668

2045 initiative is a scam

>> No.6677672

I agree the consciousness is tied to the brain. I do wonder what the effect would be if you gradually replaced components of the brain with machinery, keeping the subject conscious during the procedure if at all possible.

>> No.6677676

>>6677653
I don't see why it cannot be transferred. I don't think it can be transferred to computer ships, but if sometime in the future they are able to grow brains, I don't see why not.

>> No.6677704 [DELETED] 

pretty sure conscioussness is not just your brain, but your entire nervous system. your brain has developed specifically to direct and receive feedback from the particular configuration of nerves that has persisted in your body throughout development (not the same configuration for everyone) so trying to make a "one size fits all" brain transplant machine is just impossible. also good luck trying to find a good spot to cut the brain off.

>> No.6677735

>consciousness
>>>/x

>> No.6677748

why do people in here have such a problem discussing consciousness?
why the /x/ redirects?

do you not believe in consciousness?

>> No.6677749

>>6677653
>I believe a person's consciousness is tied to their brain
What I believe
is just as valid as scientific theories and evidence.
>that would not be the same conscious person as the original.
What is your point? You are not the same person that you were five seconds ago.

>> No.6678034

>>6677749
There's a sense of continuity. You care about that feeling of continuity, assuming you want to keep experiencing the universe.
Whether or not there are things that have a consciousness like yours but which are seperate from you, is only relevant to you if what you subjectively recognize as the continuation of your perspective is still there.

It's the most important possible thing.

>> No.6678086

>>6677666
This, so much. /sci/ needs less buzzword ladden pop-science shit and moar actual math and data analysis

Michio Kaku tier cyberpunk is the cancer that's killing /sci/

>> No.6678089

>>6677748
They don't think
Therefore they aren't

>> No.6678155

>>6678089
Discussing consciousness is fine, but I'd prefer we limit it to neurology and not matrix/avatar shit

>> No.6678236

>>6677653
I'd stop at B2 : synthesis of the fleshy brain.
If C is possible, synthesis is too, if more cumbersome.

>> No.6678268

Avatar B would be useless because your brain would continue to degrade and you'd end up an Alzheimer's patient stuck inside a robot

>> No.6678342

>>6677653
Why don't you go on a magick thread on /x/, m8? your pop science belongs there.

>>/x/

>> No.6678344

>>6677672
What about that guy who didn't have hughe chunks of brain and still kept functioning normally? Was that fake or something?

>> No.6678349

>>6678086
>x is the cancer that is killing x board
> you can read this in every board

Not related to the topic, but Moot should just close 4chan at this point.

>> No.6678447

>>6677653
>the project is actually not a scam but it hits the market
> rich old fags start to get immortality
> eventually the world is filled with immortal ancient guys, with the same morals and point of views of their
human life
> no reproduction so no new life
> we end up in an eternal stasis, nothing new arises anymore, people left waiting the end of the universe, massive suicides

It will never be possible to outsmart the laws of God/Nature/Universe.

I

>> No.6678484

>>6678447
Yeah, shame there's only one planet in the whole universe : Earth.

>> No.6678487

When you are a robot, you need a freaking good firewall, or else the hackers of this days, will make their own Transhuman hacked armys

>> No.6678508

>>6678487
The machine-emperor protects.

>> No.6678535

>>6677653
>Take mind and preserve it
>Let body die
>Have leftover mind be represented by a nonphysical holograph

Yeah that totally isn't dying and becoming a ghost, transhumanfags.

>> No.6678544

>>6678535
Minduploadfags are a subset of the whole and the proper target for your ire.

>> No.6678794

>>6677653
>Do you believe in it?
I'm going to go with the simpler assumption that consciousness is an illusion - a byproduct of the mind's function. I wish that weren't the case but I haven't a single fact that points to the consciousness being a separate entity.

As far as transhumanism goes, my tune might change as I get older but right now the idea of dying doesn't seem too bad.

>> No.6678804

>>6678794
It's a good assumption to make. Any type of awareness of some phenomenon can be recast as an instance of it. For example, self-awareness of thoughts is a thought; self-awareness of perception is a perception; etc.

>> No.6678821

>>6678794
Consciousness always was, always will be and can be anything but an illusion.
Mind upload is still suicide.

>> No.6678823

>>6678821
*cannot

>> No.6678828

I don't know how I feel about the whole mind uploading thing. Apart from sounding ridiculous, even if feasible there still is that whole "is it really you" issue. As with cyborg bodies, there's still the problem of the aging brain.

Maybe I'll just freeze myself until we can figure out the answers to both those problems

>> No.6678830

>>6678828
Brain synthesis, replacing the fleshy brain but more durable materials piece by piece over a certain period of time, is an option.
The only option really if you want obsolete senescence for yourself, not for a clone.

>> No.6678848

>>6678034
I think that the sense of continuity is tied up with the brain as a predictive system. One is continuously making half-second predictions about what is going to happen, and if those predictions are correct, consciousness continues. If they are not correct, consciousness may well terminate because you have made some fatal mistake. That half-second is not an arbitrary period - it is the time required for a novel stimulus to be processed in the brain (as opposed to the much faster conditioned reflexes of a MMA master or racing driver). Consider the mundane act of driving in busy traffic - you must necessarily extrapolate a short time into the future in order to properly anticipate (potentially dangerous) events. Reacting after half a second would be in many cases, too slow. So, to my mind, the sense of continuity is a function of the continual making and confirming of predictions.

>> No.6680246

>>6677653
yes, but you will die when copied and pasted

>> No.6680277

>>6678487
Don't worry every robot comes with avg

>> No.6680302

>>6677653
perhaps, but the problem of personal identity and embodied consciousness gets tricky. cf philosophy of the mind

>> No.6680315

What if you die every time you go to sleep

>> No.6680410

>>6680302
It's not tricky, mind upload is spawning a clone.
Nothing more, nothing less.

>> No.6680549

>>6678268
why do you think it would be degraded?

>> No.6680914

>>6677653
Maybe, maybe not. But I bet it can be chinese room duplicated to such an extent that no human observer could tell the difference.

>> No.6681219

>>6677667
I am. I hope I can get brain implants and mechanical strength augmentations by the time I'm 30. I'm working on in for my doctorate, actually.

>> No.6681223

>>6680410
not necessarily, you could go through module by module replacing bits, starting with say your visual cortex, moving through all sensory input and ending with memory

no upload has to take place, and altho there would be a noticeable transition there would be no point at which there was a copy made

>> No.6681228

>>6681223
>no upload has to take place
That's because what you described isn't mind upload but brain synthesis.
Which is the only possible way to get a true indefinite theoretical life expectancy.
Well, not with something as intrusive as changing whole parts of the brain, it's icky, but by changing smaller parts, ideally neurons by neurons but i'd be ok with thousands by thousands.

>> No.6681345

With advancements in stem cell research we could hypothetically just regenerate our body when we age.

>> No.6681868

>>6677653
A ghost of your former self except it isn't actually you.
Why do people want this?
What is the purpose of emulating life continuously rather than extending it artificially?
Why do I want some faggot with access to my memories but nothing beyond a genetic connection running around.
>"the guy I was based on used to browse __board on 4-chan, what a faggot"
Do you not see the implications of having someone you never met leak your information and mockingly represent you in possibly the worst fashion?

>> No.6681882

>>6677748
because consciousness is unfalsifiable. Read about the other minds problem. I'm seriously considering a daily reminder. How is this so difficult to understand?

>> No.6681957

>>6681868
You have issues.

>> No.6681987

>>6681868
He'd think that he was you. To him, there was no break, since he'd have all your memories. It feels continous to him. You'd be dead. But that's besides the point. No one, not even your copy, could tell the difference.

>> No.6682006

I bet we'll one day figure out that the most advanced computational systems are organic brains and that it is actually impossible to make something which works better than the human body.

>> No.6682107
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6682107

>>6682006

>> No.6682114

>>6682006
I agree.The transhumanist movement is doomed to fail

>> No.6682140

>>6682107
I wonder how much maintenance and energy those will require. Keep in mind that there still hasn't been a single mechanical system that has outlived a human. And on a computational point of view, you just can't beat reroutable analog circuits.

>> No.6682161

>>6681345

I'm praying for this to happen. Fuck being old. Your body giving out, your brain giving out, everything giving out, contemplating your youth and how you could do so much when you where young, but now you're stricken by dementia, arthritis, liver spots and inherent old people smell. I hope something is done by the time I'm 50 or I'm just gonna off myself. Fuck old age.

>> No.6682242

>>6682140
>there still hasn't been a single mechanical system that has outlived a human.
The High School I attended has an educational Diesel engine manufactured in the 60s which still functions perfectly well. It was part of the school's ship before it was replaced by one that outperforms it. I firmly believe there are people born in the 60s that have already died.

>> No.6683191

>>6682242
>I firmly believe there are people born in the 60s that have already died
And I firmly believe that most diesel engine made in the 60s that already died too, while there is a non negligible amount of people born of the 60s who are still alive.

>> No.6683193

>>6683191
>that already died
*have already died

>> No.6685076

>>6677653
I'd go with Avatar B if I was on my deathbed or something.

Probably just wait for nanobots if I'm healthy. I'm really exited for 2045 to see where this goes, but I don't really like the idea of consciousness transfer.

There are those far smarter than I am who don't see it as an issue, but I have that very human trait of worrying about my well being. Plus hackers would become gods.

I would just wait for stuff that will probably come sooner- replacement organs, gene therapy, cure for diseases like Alzheimers, and/or nanobots.

I'd rather keep my human body than become a machine, with the added benefit of still being able to reproduce with pretty much the same level of immortality. I wonder what will happen first- medical nanobots or "Avatar B" stage.

>> No.6685084

No way they are gonna achieve Avatar B by 2025 lol

>> No.6685100

If you are physically talking about consciousness, then your brain must be physically measuring something that it labels "consciousness".

Until you can tell what those measurements say, you can just stop typing about consciousness.

>> No.6685158

>>6685084
They just say that sort of thing to give people hope. Most estimates for futuristic technology is wrong since it is made by someone who has only done little research in the field.

>> No.6685170

>>6678344
holonomic brain theory

>> No.6685194

gibbeme moneys pls

i will giv u eternal life!

>> No.6685234

>>6685194
>>>lesswrong
>>>/r/futurology

>> No.6685315

>>6677653
The body that I have now has completely replaced a body before it. That said... I'd be hesitant to go past 2025... I don't have a good argument, it just seems like suicide, the same as using a teleportation device that vaporizes you and assembles you elsewhere.

>> No.6685327

>>6685315
Technology like that is extremely far off and we will figure out a lot between now and then.

>> No.6685381

>>6677749

I think there is a clear difference in what OP is saying. Certainly science suggests consciousness is a property of the brain but I can certainly see the room to wonder whether or not a brain that was given all of your memories, hell even constructed atom by atom, would be the same "you" as the you I'm replying to right now.

Maybe an outside observer would never know the difference but there isn't really a way to know if you are still the one experiencing consciousness.

>> No.6686224

>>6677653
>transhumanism

Fuck.
Off.

>> No.6686258

>>6686224
u mad?

>> No.6686342

>>6678535
>2014
>not wanting to be a sci-fi ghost