non-cs majors, why are you not studying computer science?

File: 199 KB, 571x281, 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:03:54 2014 No.6672717 [DELETED]

non-cs majors,
why are you not studying computer science?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:05:51 2014 No.6672718 because computers are boring nerd shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:06:22 2014 No.6672719 >>6672718 /thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:06:40 2014 No.6672720 Because I can't MOV BRAIN, HUGEASSWORD PTR DS:[CONCEPT]

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:07:12 2014 No.6672723 >>6672717 Is CS the career with the highest number of autistic and virgin persons?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:08:00 2014 No.6672725 >>6672723 also /thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:08:13 2014 No.6672726 because math is far more interesting and you can figure out most of cs with a math background a little bit of effort

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:11:20 2014 No.6672734 >>6672717 I am. It's just easy enough that I can learn to program computers while I get a real degree

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:15:46 2014 No.6672748 >>6672734 if you dont know discrete math,algorithms, assembly language and compilers your not a real programmer

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:16:25 2014 No.6672751 >>6672723 That's semi truck drivers. >>6672734 >learn to program computers >CS And a degree in Chemistry teaches you how to mix colored liquids in tubes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:16:49 2014 No.6672753 >>6672723 yes, and highest employment have fun being employed as cs automates your jobs

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:17:52 2014 No.6672755 >>6672723 and highest employment

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:21:16 2014 No.6672764 >>6672753 >yes, and highest employment Oh hi, Sidharth, how late is it in India anyway?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:21:20 2014 No.6672766 >>6672755 Enjoy working in your low pay curry infested cubicle while making average bank.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:21:51 2014 No.6672768 Math is easier.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:23:05 2014 No.6672770 >>6672755 >highest employment Average salaries of computer programmers are the same as average salaries for security guards. If you want to make 35k a year, go into the field that lets you read books on the job.

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:23:45 2014 No.6672771

>>6672717
I studied CS and have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand I enjoyed it, but on the other I felt it left me weak in math compared to other majors.

On top of that, I feel it's really difficult to do anything "sciency" with this degree once you're in the work force. I wish I had at least double majored or something.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:25:16 2014 No.6672774 >>6672770 >>6672770 http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm >$93,350 per year >1,018,000 jobs >222,600 d/dt

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:26:46 2014 No.6672777 >>6672771 I am two classes away from a minor in math and im still a semester away from a BS in CS. math is pointless when we can have matlab, computers do it for us

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:27:40 2014 No.6672778 >>6672751 >semi truck drivers >virgins Ever heard the term lot lizard?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:27:47 2014 No.6672779 >>6672748 If you're a NEET fuck, you're not a real programmer either.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:28:43 2014 No.6672781 >>6672777 You're thinking of arithmetic

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:30:03 2014 No.6672783 >>6672777 Yeah I used to think that until I started my MS in mathematical finance back in January. I'm seriously like the retard in my cohort... they're all math and physics majors... mostly math, though.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:31:27 2014 No.6672785 File: 137 KB, 1280x724, MATLAB_R2013a_Win8_screenshot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6672781 most math classes are based around the arithmetic, esp calc1,2,3 and linear alg

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:31:54 2014 No.6672787 >>6672748 None of that is CS-exclusive. Those are things an EE or CE will know as well.

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:32:02 2014 No.6672788
File: 57 KB, 246x298, 2014-05-12 07.51.02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm finishing a math PhD this year (300k starting etc), and have been wishing lately that I did more CS. I'm interested in computer vision so most of the companies I'm interested in are looking for very strong software development skills
>tfw bombed a google interview

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:35:00 2014 No.6672792 >>6672788 Take an online class in software engineering, study up your stupid data structure interview questions, and practice and you'll be golden for the next interview. Seriously, you don't need a degree in CS for a programming job.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:36:35 2014 No.6672798 Because I have a brain.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:36:51 2014 No.6672800 >>6672787 CE is still a computer science EEs usually dont take discrete math, algorithms, assembler, compilers

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:38:20 2014 No.6672802 >>6672798 u better hope u do cuz brainless jobs = automated by CS xD >>6672792 debugging, memory management, algorithms and compilers is something u need to know to be a good programmer

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:38:58 2014 No.6672804 >>6672800 >CE is still a computer science I would disagree with you. A CE major has to take actual science courses (science being defined in the classical sense). Computer nerds tacked the word 'science' on to their field so they could feel special.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:41:47 2014 No.6672807 >>6672798 <span class="math">epicness^{9999999}[/spoiler]

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:42:27 2014 No.6672808 >>6672802 >debugging, memory management, algorithms and compilers is something >>is something >>>>>>is this sounds like it was written by a Comp. Sci. student

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:43:16 2014 No.6672810

>>6672800
>CE is still a computer science

Let's agree to disagree. To me CE is it's own thing. More of a combination of CS with EE.

>EEs usually dont take discrete math,
Are you kidding me? Have you met an actual discrete math major? The stuff we see in CS is a joke, and not too much more in depth than what a EE would see.

>algorithms,
True, but there's nothing stopping one from taking one or two classes. It's really not that hard a topic, unless you get to graduate-level stuff. In fact, if you're a EE and have free electives left, I'd suggest you spend one in an algorithms class: not too challenging but really useful.

>assembler,
they definitely do. At least in my uni they did

>compilers
touchee, but again, it's just one class they could easily take as an elective

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:43:34 2014 No.6672812 >>6672802 None of that is difficult CS material that requires a degree

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:43:36 2014 No.6672813

>>6672804
most cs have to take mechanical physics and electrical physics. mech to design games and electrical to understand circuts + one other science. I agree with CE > CS for systems, low level programming. but CE doesnt get high level programming experience. pros and cons

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:48:22 2014 No.6672815 >>6672813 High level languages are easy to understand if you know lower level languages. Takes very little effort.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:50:27 2014 No.6672817 >>6672815 learning database programming intertwined with code takes effort

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:54:08 2014 No.6672821 >>6672717 it's really really boring.

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:55:49 2014 No.6672824

>>6672813
>CE doesnt get high level programming experience

They get more C/C++ experience than most CS majors. Besides if you're a good low-level programmer, you can easily turn into a good high level programmer. Not so much true the other way around.

>learning database programming intertwined with code takes effort

Not really that difficult. If anything, when it comes to databases, the part where a CE would have to more effort because of having less exposure (at least in my school, the CE department didn't have a databases class, only CS did) would be in the database design theory (relational algebra, schemas, etc).

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:59:15 2014 No.6672827 >>6672717 I wasn't dropped on my head as a child.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 18:59:42 2014 No.6672828 >>6672824 Ill agree with that. but cs does take assembler and compilers, which is better than most other majors

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 19:02:42 2014 No.6672835 >implying programming is a cs exclusive skill

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 19:06:19 2014 No.6672839 File: 271 KB, 452x710, +_47a8cb47669cb6764532dea58ad48ef2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >doing CS >asocial virgin living with parents at 20

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 19:07:20 2014 No.6672842 >>6672835 No one's implying that. CS is more than programming. Any retarded 4 year ago can learn programming.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 19:10:04 2014 No.6672844 >>6672812 >Algorithm analysis and compiler design is not difficult and doesn't require a degree Okay. Go write a C compiler that can match the performance of GCC. I'll wait.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 19:11:07 2014 No.6672846 >>6672839 Jokes on you, I'm an asocial virgin living with parents at 2<span class="math">4[/spoiler]!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 19:13:08 2014 No.6672847 Because I am not interested in being a glorified translator.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 19:14:24 2014 No.6672850 >>6672844 Fun fact: Stallman studied physics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:02:04 2014 No.6672929 >>6672850 Fun fact: in the 1970s Computer Science wasn't a major. It was part of Mathematics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:06:22 2014 No.6672933 File: 5 KB, 262x292, CS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6672717

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:07:26 2014 No.6672934 because the title isnt cool enough when im done ill be called master of science (MSc) deal with it

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:10:44 2014 No.6672937

>>6672929
Your challenge was retarded to begin with. You can't write a compiler that measures up to gcc either, and it's pointless to do so because it has had a history of refinement, and yours wouldn't and it is not necessary to reinvent the wheel. Why else do you think there are only like 50 commonly used C compilers (and not all of them are even nearly as commonly used as gcc)? Your challenge was retarded to begin with. Of course, I wouldn't expect less from a CS major who thinks programming = CS.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:11:46 2014 No.6672938 >>6672934 >implying there are no MSc's in CS

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:13:49 2014 No.6672942 >>6672734 This >>6672748 >discrete math, algorithms, assembly language and compilers That stuff is all pathetically easy and can be learned in a fraction of the time a slow CS course take with considerable more depth.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:14:06 2014 No.6672944 >>6672717 because its boring as fucking shit and because ive gotta take a programming class first semester and will be using it to solve math problems for all the rest of grad school so focusing entirely on it would be a waste

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:15:17 2014 No.6672946 >>6672938 i bet there are, but i think in my country they most commonly use the term ingenieur (ir) or doctorandus in those fields. not completely sure though so i could be mistaken

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:16:20 2014 No.6672951 >>6672774 >http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k-code-monkey-jobs.html >The average salary for code monkey jobs is $44,000.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:25:55 2014 No.6672971 lol @ /sci/ ""elitists"", probably NEETs who just watch pop sci and read XKCD to base their opinions on which science is the "best".

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:26:43 2014 No.6672972

>>6672788
>I'm interested in computer vision

>Learn Statistics
>Read computer vision books
>Learn OpenCV
>Have a project to show off competence

suddenly jobs

>>6672844
>Okay. Go write a C compiler that can match the performance of GCC. I'll wait.

>Implying CS majors who've taking compilers can come close to doing that.

Also GCC sucks and replaced by the actually free Clang.

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:29:36 2014 No.6672979

>>6672971
When you get to grad school, there really isn't a separation of fields anymore. You learn what you have to, doesn't matter which "major" it is supposed to be from. I'm guessing the reason for such elitism is there's just not that many people on /sci/ with a graduate school education.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:31:48 2014 No.6672983 >>6672800 >EEs usually dont take discrete math, algorithms, assembler, compilers But those that do are always at least 1.5SD above the smartest CS major on exams and projects.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:31:57 2014 No.6672984 >>6672783 fuck yeah mathematical finance bro what school you at if you dont mind me asking? and how bad is next semester gonna rape me? havent taken analysis in over a year and barely got a B in it, i suck at programming too

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:33:14 2014 No.6672989 >>6672785 >most math classes >baby tier first year math classes Anon, you can't be this new

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:35:15 2014 No.6672992 >>6672839 >>6672846 >living with partents >bad Your country sucks.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:37:08 2014 No.6672996 >>6672979 The reason we hate CS is because the undergraduate major teaches nothing at all and shouldn't exist in the first place. This holds true for all schools including the "top programs". No one is insulting the academic field of CS on /sci/.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:43:05 2014 No.6673004 >>6672839 >living with parents at 20 Is it really that pathetic?

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:52:50 2014 No.6673030

>>6672996
>The reason we hate CS is because the undergraduate major teaches nothing at all and shouldn't exist in the first place

When my father studied CS in the 70s, he was required to take like twice the amount of math I was required to take (and that's not even counting the electives). For his algorithms class the textbook was Knuth, ffs.

I don't think the major should cease to exist. I just think it should be rethought again and separated from software engineering.

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 20:54:36 2014 No.6673035

>>6672717
>non-cs majors,
>why are you not studying computer science?

see

>>5662999
>I do not hate CS. CS is an umbrella term for many interesting fields of research. However I do feel utter contempt for CS students. As a mathematically minded person I myself studied CS until realizing that I won't get any intellectual qualifications from studying it. BSc programmes in CS are catering to and attracting the most anti-intellectual scum that barely managed to enter university. The usual CS curriculum is already designed in such a way to teach only a bare minimum of math and theory, hardly going beyond high school knowledge. Yet the average CS student fails it. The same people who are spouting wrong platitudes like "CS is all hard math" are the people who think you're a genius for knowing calculus. The pinnacle of idiocy I encountered in CS was a 6th semester student going for his BSc who did not know what a logarithm is.

>>5982685
>With a CS degree alone without further qualifications you are factually unemployable. Neither the primitive GUI design in java nor the shallow hardware, database or network intro will qualify you for a job. The only people getting acceptable jobs with a CS degree are those who either combined it with another degree or who already had a job before because they self-learned important skills. Quite a few CS students openly told me they are only getting the degree just to have something on paper to force their boss to give them higher salary. The job they already had because they started web design / programming / security in high school. Having demonstrable experience in those is more important to an employer than what you learned in CS. The business monkey variety of retards is even more unemployable. Representatives of local industries explicitly said the degree is trash because these people know neither economics/business nor computing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 21:20:14 2014 No.6673081 >>6673004 No. It's fine to live with your parents until you graduate and get your first job when you're 22. After that, you're a pretty colossal loser.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 21:21:43 2014 No.6673083 >>6673081 It's pretty common in latin cultures for people to live with their parents even after that. They don't really move out until they have a serious really relationship/get married.

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 21:38:29 2014 No.6673103

I just need to reply to this thread because it is my first time lurking /sci/ and I just so happen to be starting my Computer Science education with an APCS class next semester. What should I expect? All I have learned about computers is how to mindlessly browse shtting boards like /b/ and /sp/ and jerk off 5 times a day for the past 6 years.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 21:42:47 2014 No.6673105 >>6672751 >autismals >able to operate a semi lel

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 21:46:58 2014 No.6673113

>>6673103
I never took a high school "CS" class, but I'll just suggest that unless you just want to be a software engineer, major in something else or double major.

As for the AP CS class, I'd guess they'll probably teach you the basics of some programming language.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 21:55:35 2014 No.6673127 because nuclear engineering is cooler/better

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 21:59:37 2014 No.6673134

I love logic, so I am studying CS. I worked as an IT manager and now own my own IT company.

Im 30 so a bit late, but once I finish by BS in CS next year, I am going to get my JD in law in 3 years hipefully.

I figure a lawyer that thinks logically and like a programmer (mostly logically) will kill in court.

Otherwise, you know, I will just charge $750 to do easy legal paperwork or $1500 for paperwork involving criminal cases.

Might actually try to redefine how layers and clients interact as well, by leveraging my grok of computer tech and business.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 30 22:04:56 2014 No.6673140 >>6672933 Both are for people to stupid to take something easy like IFSM and make 2x to 3x more than the nerds programming away at their desks.

Anonymous Wed Jul 30 22:13:26 2014 No.6673155

>>6673134
>I figure a lawyer that thinks logically and like a programmer (mostly logically) will kill in court.
Wrong. Being a lawyer isn't about making the more logical, rational argument. It is about convincing the jury. Which is 12 dumbfuck ignorant high school graduates. Who probably aren't very good at logic. Some slimy alpha male asshole who doesn't fully understand the case and twists the truth with every word he says and manipulates the jury's emotions is going to make a much better trial lawyer than some aspie who goes up and makes a perfectly logical argument detailing exactly why the prosecution's case is impossible in a barely audible monotone voice using lots of technical terms and boring the jury to death.

>Otherwise, you know, I will just charge $750 to do easy legal paperwork or $1500 for paperwork involving criminal cases.
Also wrong. Civil cases are worth significantly more money than criminal ones. You really don't seem to know much about being a lawyer, then again you've done literally nothing to move in that direction so fair enough.

>Might actually try to redefine how layers and clients interact as well, by leveraging my grok of computer tech and business.
I don't even understand what you think you would be accomplishing here.

Look. There is exactly one thing you learn in computer science that is also a valuable trait for a lawyer. That is the ability to stare at a computer screen for ungodly amounts of time parsing hundreds of thousands of lines of text looking for a handful buried somewhere in the middle that are of interest and recognizing them when you see them. The utility of this is not to be disregarded, if you leverage it properly into a job in corporate law (you can probably get into a tech company easily with your previous experience), you will make ridiculous money. But it will be even more boring and sterile than writing code all day. And the synergies you are imagining between CS and law are completely fictitious.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:02:51 2014 No.6673339 >>6672717 I'd rather go to college to learn something important.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:15:09 2014 No.6673356 I was too dumb to figure out data structures.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:15:35 2014 No.6673358 >>6672717 Because I am studying computer engineering.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:20:21 2014 No.6673364 >>6672717 I live i a third world country. I actually have more chances of making it as an artist than any kind of engenieer

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:21:03 2014 No.6673366 I dunno

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:42:53 2014 No.6673381 >>6672717 >PhD in Math >Any job I want >300k starting

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:45:28 2014 No.6673382 >>6672717 Cause it's possible (if not easy) to pick it up as a hobby.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 01:50:19 2014 No.6673387 >>6672951 kek postdocs make more than that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 02:41:49 2014 No.6673435 >>6672717 >studying math >several computing languages are integral parts of my studies and also fucking easy

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 02:46:12 2014 No.6673439 >>6673387 And some basketball niggaz make more in a day >>6673435 Are those C or assembly?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 22:27:40 2014 No.6674878 >>6673381 is this true?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 22:38:28 2014 No.6674891 Because I happened one day to realize that somebody has to give a shit about abstract algebra and real analysis, and that someone was me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 31 23:01:12 2014 No.6674922 >>6674878 Of course not

Anonymous Thu Jul 31 23:30:34 2014 No.6674965
File: 875 KB, 1239x830, DSC_0203_lr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I am working on a phd in earth science at the moment. I use computers daily as a tool, to store and process data, to program, to model.

I always been in computers anyways since the 80`s, I somewhat studied CS before switching to earth sciences, but I always found more fun and excitement in thinking that computers are tools to do a job instead of a topic of study in itself.

I recognize that it is very useful to be knowledgeable with computers (OS, networks, hardware interfacing, databases etc) and provide an interesting toolset/profile for a person in a given field except CS (ex: earth science) versus those without computer knowledge (apart ms-office)

Finally, my main driver to not stay in CS was that my landscape view at my office when I worked with computers sucked - the landscape is much nicer in my new office...

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 00:17:30 2014 No.6675010 I study math and physics. CS is just a trivial by product of math. It's useful, and I use it all the time, but to study it would be inane.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 02:16:51 2014 No.6675191 >>6673435 >matlab I wouldn't even dare calling that pile of inconsistent, inefficient shit a programming language.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 02:22:38 2014 No.6675208 >>6675191 >inconsistent you must be using a different distro of MATLAB than me

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 02:35:06 2014 No.6675246 >>6672717 Because I don't have autism. >cognitive sciences/medicine master race

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 03:04:26 2014 No.6675300

>>6675208
Well, obviously, I haven't been using it in a while, but I remember there were functions that did different stuff depending on whether you passed a "scalar" (which is a matrix), a "vector" (which is a matrix) or a matrix to it — even though Matlab's whole point is to avoid this (in their view) unnecessary distinction. I'm not sure if this is a bad idea per se, but they should at least go through with it. Also, not to mention the fuckload of different return value formats depending on how many variables there are in the left-hand side pattern. If I have to use "help $cmd" (and actually *read* all that rambling because the prototypes alone are not informative at all) to find out each and every function's interface in a supposed "programming language" that I've been using for more than a week, something's wrong.
Also, it's slow as fuck and everything's a double by default (which is a problem for many Matlab fanboys since they have no idea of floating-point representation, rounding errors, and programming/computers in general).
/rant

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 03:33:19 2014 No.6675332 >>6675300 Whatever you say dude. Matlab is the de facto tool in computation. And it's among the 10 most popular PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES according to IEEE. Like it or not, the community has approved it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 03:36:37 2014 No.6675337 >>6672751 I'm not >>6672734 But are you implying that programming isn't CS?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 03:46:34 2014 No.6675349 >>6675191 >math = matlab bitch please, i have a semester left in my math/physics major and i have had to use all of these for assignments >C >Fortran >Matlab >R >Mathematica >Python >Maple

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 06:33:51 2014 No.6675523 >>6672717 We can get the same result with just Math.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 08:35:04 2014 No.6675616
File: 42 KB, 854x480, 【東方Vocal】【Reitaisai10】【ALiCE'S EMOTiON】Keep Going!.mp4_snapshot_01.43_[2014.08.01_08.33.27].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

CS should not be a major, it is a term for a spectrum of disciplines all relating to computing.

When a student asks to study CS they should be told to choose from:
EE - Electrical Engineering
ECE - Electronic/Computer Engineering
SE - Software Engineering
Math/TCS - Math/Theoretical Computer Science

"CS" majors in colleges almost always mean Software Engineering, and this misleads students into thinking they know a large portion of what computation is.

Also Software Engineering is the least scientific of the disciplines that fall under CS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 08:46:27 2014 No.6675630 I am not retarded.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 09:02:45 2014 No.6675643

>>6673155
Actual lawyer work is about 10% in court cases and 90% manipulating the system. If you don't know when and how to file certain shit, your cases won't matter because they're all thrown out on technicalities by the better lawyer that thinks logically.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 09:07:38 2014 No.6675648 >>6675332 Isn't that a logical fallacy you presented?

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 09:43:36 2014 No.6675677

>>6675616
I agree somewhat. Software engineering should be ots own thing.

However, despite obvious overlaps with those fields you mentioned, CS is definitely its own thing. Real CS is meant to be multidisciplinary. It combines aspects of electronic and computer engineering, math, operations research, and many others depending on which subfield you go into.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 14:26:27 2014 No.6676041

>>6675191
>retarded CS major detected

>>6675300
>but I remember there were functions that did different stuff depending on whether you passed

Welcome to operator overloading

>Also, not to mention the fuckload of different return value formats depending on how many variables there are in the left-hand side pattern

If you don't want part of the return value, why should the function calculate it?

>If I have to use "help $cmd" (and actually *read* all that rambling because the prototypes alone are not informative at all)

Have you seen a "man" page?

>Also, it's slow as fuck

Stop using loops you retard. It's not java and it's not trying to be.

>everything's a double by default

And this is a problem why?

>have no idea of floating-point representation

It's scientific notations, what's not to get

>rounding errors

Doubles can store any 53bit int value without loss and for fractions everyone is aware that there is going to be rounding error.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 14:30:22 2014 No.6676050 >>6675616 I agree but rename SE to SP (Software Programming) and dump it into a trade school and not in university.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 17:27:14 2014 No.6676381
File: 52 KB, 640x480, _.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Learning about the physics of electron/semiconductor devices is really interesting.

There are *so* many programmers and all the interesting research (Haskell, Matlab, D, FRP) is being accomplished by a small number of people. The other 95% of programmers do Systems Programming and Game Programming.

The fact that professors and students immediately associate CS with SE, and then make claims that CS is not a science nor has to do with computers .... is absolutely absurd.

But then again, all computers are are 1s and 0s, and ONs and OFFs. If you commit to open source software you is computer genius.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 17:44:10 2014 No.6676409

I'm a CS major and I find it very disappointing.

It's not challenging. Yes, I go to a shit-tier state uni, but compare SICP to Spivak. Both are written for intelligent freshman, but Spivak is much more difficult (and rewarding), and there are unifying ideas tying together the subject of his book while CS is just a hodgepodge of things that had-been applied mathematicians find novel. And Discrete Math is a joke. Algorithms and Data Structures are very easy to learn, and you feel like there shouldn't be a whole class dedicated to them, that they should just be something that engineers who have to program pick up on the side.

I don't even like technology. The only reason I'm a CS major is become I'm not a genius, so math is out of the question, and I really dislike engineering stuff from what I've experienced. I get the feeling CS students are talentless hacks looking for an easy ride through life, capitalizing on the ignorance of others.

Unless I get into statistics and machine learning, here's to a life of Java!

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 19:15:26 2014 No.6676525

>>6676041
Not at all retarded. I do indeed study CS (and math), though (in a country where we don't "major" in anything).

>Welcome to operator overloading
They're trying to make one sticky mush from scalars, vectors and matrices. Which *could* be fine, except they keep having shitloads of exceptions where a <span class="math">n\times 1[/spoiler] matrix is interpreted entirely different from a <span class="math">n\times m[/spoiler] matrix. That's not overloading (which requires a somewhat reasonable type system to even be applicable).
> NOTE: When POPULATION is a numeric vector containing only non-negative integer values, and it might have length 1, use
> Y = POPULATION(RANDSAMPLE(LENGTH(POPULATION),K)
> instead of Y = RANDSAMPLE(POPULATION,K).
This is exactly what the problem is. Why should a "numeric vector containing only non-negative integer values[...] might have length 1" be handled differently than ANY OTHER fucking vector? Worse, the bugs that may arise from this are extremely subtle and likely won't be detected by extensive testing.

>Have you seen a "man" page?
Of course, and I have to read the text in it very, very rarely. Most of the time, function prototypes (and argument names) are enough of a clue. Matlab's doc has one-letter variables all over the place and no types.

>It's not java and it's not trying to be.
I know. It's still slower than any real programming language (which also doesn't include Java in my opinion).

>Doubles can store any 53bit int value without loss and for fractions everyone is aware that there is going to be rounding error.
Fun fact: I have a professor who tried to calculate some <span class="math">g^x\bmod p[/spoiler] for large <span class="math">x[/spoiler] in Matlab. Expectedly, the result came out wrong; he had no idea why. (Also, he has written a book about Matlab.)
Besides that, floating-point arithmetic is still an awful lot slower than integer operations. (And doubles require more memory.)

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:09:43 2014 No.6676580

>>6676525
The advantage of scripting languages is obviously not speed of execution and power, but speed of development. Any program requiring a significant amount of matrix math will be coded ridiculously faster in matlab than in C/C++. Any project that requires a lot of statistical data massaging will be more conveniently done in SAS or R than in C.

The more tools in your belt, the better.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:29:00 2014 No.6676617 >>6676580 A lot of "CS" (SE) students don't understand the entire goal of SE is to build, apply, and categorize algorithmic/mathematical abstractions. Which is why Matlab pisses so many SE students off -- it has abstractions helpful to hard sciences.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:38:02 2014 No.6676627 becuse computer engineering / software engineering looks better on paper.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:39:24 2014 No.6676634

To be perfectly honest, I'm a cs major because I failed math. When I first went to uni after high school I studied math and completely flunked out of uni, I was suffering from severe depression the entire year so I wasn't able to study and keep up with the work. I went to cs, and yes it is a lot easier than math and the people are far less intelligent in general, but if you do the hard subjects they contain difficult maths, and irl there are positions for programmers with good math skills that pay very highly. One day I hope to finish a math masters so I can get one of these positions, which wouldn't be possible without cs and lots of programming knowledge.
/cool story

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:40:53 2014 No.6676637 >>6676381 >Learning about the physics of electron/semiconductor devices is really interesting. That's CpE and EE, not CS

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:43:06 2014 No.6676644 >>6676637 CpE and EE are branches of CS. You're mistaking SE for CS.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:48:54 2014 No.6676657
File: 125 KB, 948x543, CS students, 5 years later.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6676409
>I get the feeling CS students are talentless hacks looking for an easy ride through life, capitalizing on the ignorance of others.

We've only been saying that since forever.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:51:24 2014 No.6676666 >>6672933 how about software engineers?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:55:37 2014 No.6676675 >>6672717 Because it's a trivial application of my current mayor

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:57:24 2014 No.6676678

>>6676525
>Matlab's doc has one-letter variables all over the place and no types

Because it should be obvious what "int(expr,var,a,b)" means and usually the next line writes out mathematically the expression being evaluated.

>Expectedly, the result came out wrong; he had no idea why

Did he use powermod(b, e, m) or did he calculate mod(b^e,m) like a retard? pow(b,e)%m will overflow java as well you know.

>It's still slower than any real programming language

[citation needed] Matlab kicks python's ass from my testing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:58:27 2014 No.6676681 >>6676644 You're fucking retarded

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 20:59:03 2014 No.6676683

>>6676675

I wonder if there are other majors that are also blatantly a direct application of another.

Math.children = [Computer Science,Software Engineering]

I think Software Engineering at least teaches you about tons of frameworks and techniques that fall outside the scope of mathematics.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:06:35 2014 No.6676695 >mfw you realize that you have to pump your charisma and social skills to be able to earn a shit load of money >mfw your degree is shit if you don't aim for leadership and management welp. that's reality for you

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:11:48 2014 No.6676699 >>6676695 >no mfw picture Cancer: misuse of memes that spreads because people are way dumb.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:16:07 2014 No.6676704 >>6676683 Please. There's hardly any math to software engineering unless you're working some sort of R&D or scientific job.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:17:31 2014 No.6676706

>>6676695
>mfw plebs have to cling to their precious 'social skills' and 'leadership' while any professional with scarce and complicated skills is heavily sought after and happily lets the mundane managerial tasks be carried out by enthusiastic puppies craving for acknowledgment but incapable of understanding the level of their incompetence.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:20:13 2014 No.6676707 >>6676706 tips fedora tips CS degree

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:23:35 2014 No.6676713

>>6676706

>he thinks that social skills are shit
>enter new job
>work with a team with different personalities and skill-sets
>"you can't into teamwork, anon?" FIRED
>or stay like a sheep being the last in the food chain
>he doesn't improve, he is just a "specialist" all his life

to be fair, I don't know about too much how scientists work, but if you enter a corporation, you MUST HAVE social skills

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:24:37 2014 No.6676714 >>6676699 this happens when you don't have social skills

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:25:43 2014 No.6676715 >>6676644 >>6676681 Electronics Engineering and Computer Engineering are closely related, but ElectronE isn't a direct subfield of CS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:27:21 2014 No.6676718 >>6675616 I agree I would rather take SE than CS

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:27:58 2014 No.6676720 >>6676714 Epic.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:29:27 2014 No.6676723 >>6676409 lie detected CS requires a lot of math

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:29:53 2014 No.6676725

>>6676707
I'm not wearing my fedora right now so i can't tip it and I'm definitely not a CS mayor. Perhaps if you are, having social skills is indeed not a luxury

>>6676713
I agree you can't be a complete social retard but I think that the more your have sought after specialized skills, the more a company is willing to adjust and facilitate you. I've worked in a research institute where it's almost entirely the results that count. There indeed were a happy few with relatively low social skills but high quality output, so people around them adjusted etc.

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:33:09 2014 No.6676728

>>6676409

I studied CS as an undergrad from a top 10 school, and I feel a bit disappointed too. I'm pretty sure I would've learned a LOT more things that aren't that trivial to learn on your spare time while in the work force (advanced topics in math, for instance) from an engineering degree or from other science degree. On the other hand, nobody forced me to avoid abstract algebra, advanced statistics, advanced graph theory, or any of the advanced calculus-based classes.

I regret having gone for CS instead of CE (I switched during my first year)... If I could do it all over again, though, I'd study math, EE, or ChemE.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:35:03 2014 No.6676730 >>6676728 >I'd study math, EE, or ChemE. >computers can automate math, EE, ChemE

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:36:04 2014 No.6676733

>>6676723
>CS requires a lot of math

Proof that "a lot" is a relative thing. Unless you go out of your way to take extra math classes and fill up some electives with math, you will not get nearly as much math education as a math, physics, or some engineering majors.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:37:25 2014 No.6676734 >>6676730 >>computers can automate math, EE, ChemE Aid the study of, but not automate. Unless new computers have a positronic brain which I was unaware of.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:41:41 2014 No.6676737 File: 34 KB, 413x395, hue.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6676730 >computers can automate math, EE, ChemE Did the singularity happen already? Cause if what you said is true, it must have. Why haven't they enslaved us?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 21:52:10 2014 No.6676740 >>6676737 The singularity will most likely happen in our lifetime. Aka a computer will be 1000000x smarter than you in our lifetime, umad?

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 22:07:01 2014 No.6676752 >>6676740 >umad? What gives you the right to say that? unless... unless you're a computer! Fuuuuu, it's already happened

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 22:20:59 2014 No.6676770 File: 423 KB, 490x684, Hardest class in CS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6676723 >CS requires a lot of math i.e. this is what CS majors think a lot of theoretical math is

Anonymous Fri Aug 1 22:42:23 2014 No.6676798
File: 28 KB, 500x400, that_is_a_duck_lol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6676770
>In other ways it is the least accessible discipline; for example, Wiles' proof that Fermat's equation has no nontrivial solutions requires understanding automorphic forms, which though intrinsic to nature have not found a place in physics or the general public discourse.
>have not found a place in physics or the general public discourse.
>unemployed
>mfw theoretical mathematicians become ducks on the street asking for food from software engineers

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 23:07:22 2014 No.6676821 >>6676798 but wiles isn't unemployed checkmate atheist

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 1 23:10:34 2014 No.6676822 >>6676798 Software engineering is not a CS-exclusive job. Anybody can pretty easily pick up the skills necessary for software engineering. Hell, there are people with no college education working as software engineers.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 00:43:04 2014 No.6676925 >>6676822 >search software jobs on indeed >90% require bachelors degree in CS, CE or EE

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 00:46:30 2014 No.6676930 >>6675616 You will probably need mixed knowledge if you want to be an expert. branches of CS are specializations, but they aren't exclusive.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 01:14:55 2014 No.6676954

>>6676925
>>90% require bachelors degree in CS, CE or EE

"or equivalent" aka you learnt everything and more that is covered in a CS major on your own and have some other engineering, math, or physics degree. The STEM degree part can even be substituted with a big enough projects portfolio and a HS degree.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 01:25:36 2014 No.6676964 >>6672717 The field pays too little considering the amount for work one is required to do.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 02:24:41 2014 No.6677007 I want to pursue a career in AI development. How delusional am I? And how dark is my future?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 02:39:53 2014 No.6677035 >>6672774 They had to use a picture of an ugly nerd.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 03:24:01 2014 No.6677091 >>6677007 Depends on what you mean. Nothing's stopping you from working on AI for self made robots or video games or chatbots right this second.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 04:08:18 2014 No.6677124 >>6677007 on the other hand the ratio of open research positions to # of phds is liek 1:30.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 04:09:25 2014 No.6677126 >>6672717 Computers can't even into real numbers and they can only kind of into rationals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 05:13:02 2014 No.6677162 >>6676678 >obvious what "int(expr,var,a,b)" means Nope. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 05:19:17 2014 No.6677165 >>6677162 then type help int

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 05:46:00 2014 No.6677192

if anyone knows how to solve this i would greatly appreciate it. I'm having trouble with this one.

"Write a program with a loop that lets the user enter a series of integers. The user should
enter -99 to signal the end of the series. After all the numbers have been entered, the
program should display the largest and the smallest numbers entered. "

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 05:49:43 2014 No.6677193 >>6672717 Because my life is finite and I conclude obtaining a degree in computer science as extraneous.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 05:49:47 2014 No.6677194 Is Computer Engineering optimal for someone seeking a way to acquire knowledge about computers without learning software engineering (because it's very easy to self-teach) while maintaining validity for programming jobs?

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 05:57:03 2014 No.6677203

>>6677192
Hope this helps, if you've got any questions feel free to ask, though I may not be able to answer fully as I haven't finished my CS degree yet.

for(int x=0; x<200;x++)
{
Console.ReadLine();
if(Console.ReadLine()==-99) {
for(int x=0; int++)
{
Console.Write("ERROR')
}
if x > x-1 int big = x;
else {
int small = x;
x=small;
}
}
}
Console.WriteLine('big' + small);

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 05:57:29 2014 No.6677204 Because psychology master race

>>	None !!BJiYgff8zf2 Sat Aug 2 05:58:25 2014 No.6677205 >>6676050 I agree with this sentiment. SE doesn't feel very academic to me, it doesn't have a lot of math behind it. Mostly just common sense stuff.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 06:02:10 2014 No.6677211 >>6677203 Thnx for helping. Do you mind making a c++ version? That's what I have to use

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 06:05:39 2014 No.6677213

because if the situation was so dire that I'd have to chose between two piece of shit majors I'd pick philosophy and earn about the same [low] wage but without the feeling that I'm full of shit

or was it the other way around. this shit is hilariously interchangeable

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 06:06:55 2014 No.6677215
File: 32 KB, 429x302, c++program.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6677211
Yes here you go, ignore the errors as they are caused by me writing c++ syntax in a non-c++ compiler, but it should still be correct.
I've also added some optimization and documentation.

>>	None !!BJiYgff8zf2 Sat Aug 2 06:14:04 2014 No.6677220 >>6676409 >>6676728 I agree. The math you learn in a CS course (convex optimization, queueing theory, control systems, etc) is just too easy. Any math major learns that stuff in one course in their freshman year.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 06:14:27 2014 No.6677221

>>6677215

Thanks I appreciate it. I'm gonna test it out tomorrow when I'm home. Will bump this thread if anymore questions. I never would have thought of using a for loop. I was trying to use a while. Did you set a 200 max limit? If I'm reading it correctly

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 06:20:18 2014 No.6677222 >>6677215 kek

>>	None !!BJiYgff8zf2 Sat Aug 2 06:21:48 2014 No.6677226 >>6677213 >I'd pick philosophy and earn about the same [low] wage but without the feeling that I'm full of shit hehehe

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 07:31:35 2014 No.6677276
File: 36 KB, 508x487, 133231358482884.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why are you math faggots so elitist? You act like it's the only real and "hard" science, and because you can do math, you can do anything else. Most of the highest level math is just pseudo-philosophical bullshit and proving something just for the sake of it. No real world applications.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 07:36:57 2014 No.6677278 >>6677276 Because what makes your computer fast is that high level math that computer scientists and mathematics develop?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 07:37:46 2014 No.6677280 >>6672717 Do I have to even major it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 07:43:40 2014 No.6677282 File: 114 KB, 432x485, IMG_0956.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6677276 Go back to Krautchan, engineer scum.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 07:46:47 2014 No.6677285 >>6674878 Newfag

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 07:55:52 2014 No.6677291 >>6677204 this, we probably don't even understand 1% of the brain yet

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 08:03:47 2014 No.6677295 >>6672726 Yes, what this guy. Exactly the same choice i made and reasoning behind it,

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 08:54:52 2014 No.6677327
File: 57 KB, 1008x720, coalgirls_serial_experiments_lain_04_1008x720_blu-ray_flac_260d7cf9-mkv_snapshot_09-48_2011-08-17_06-52-13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6677194
Yes, you'll learn about all the electronic mechanisms that enable modern computing without learning ridiculous software frameworks/languages.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:03:25 2014 No.6677333

Typical CS/SE major jobs:
- Write an application to parse Python syntax tree
- Write a DSL that abstracts web requests
- Build an exciting new JavaScript <canvas> game

Not a science! Hardly even engineering!

You don't see too many Biology/Medicine/Astrology/EE majors building GAMES for a living, do you?

At least your waifu still loves you

Get rekt

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:13:01 2014 No.6677340 File: 264 KB, 1000x1000, consider_the_following.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >i enjoy coding >i do not enjoy science >i do not enjoy building physical things >i enjoy math only to the degree that it helps me accomplish my goals

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:21:47 2014 No.6677343 so many trolls and idiots in this thread. hope cs students dont butthurt too much.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:28:30 2014 No.6677349 Computer Programming is equivalent to Refrigerator Technician. You're a mere a tool that helps computer engineers/scientists/theoreticians.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:32:52 2014 No.6677354 >>6677349 ure a mere tool that helps computer programmers achieve their practical means.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:36:21 2014 No.6677357 >>6677349 Engineering is equivalent to Refrigerator Technician. You're a mere a tool that helps CEOs/seniormanagers/stockholders.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:38:12 2014 No.6677362 I'm doing a mathematics masters because I found it far more interesting in school, I do want to get into programming though, and have done some python and HTML/CSS at uni, but don't know what language to dive into

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:38:44 2014 No.6677363 >>6677357 Refrigerator Technicians don't build or design refrigerators.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:42:18 2014 No.6677365 >>6677363 >engineers >building and designing boy are you going to be in for a surprise when you graduate

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:48:06 2014 No.6677369 >>6677365 retard detected

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:53:33 2014 No.6677381 >>6674965 where was the picture taken?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:54:42 2014 No.6677382 >>6673004 Depends - if you aren't in school and don't have a job, then yeah it's pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 09:55:23 2014 No.6677384 >>6674965 suggesting that u couldnt be doing most of the cs jobs from anywhere in the world that has internet connection.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 10:02:44 2014 No.6677389 >>6676925 >CS, CE, EE, oe equivalent Thanks for backing up my claim that SE is not a CS-exclusive job.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 10:04:06 2014 No.6677390

>>6677362
C# and Java are the lingua franca of enterprise and will surely put bread on your table.

Python job postings are relatively rare, but always interesting (data crunching and young and cool web shops)

C++ is mostly for gaeming and embedded systems. With embedded systems you'll be competing with engies, but after you get in it's a stable place to be (software changes, hardware stays). Gaming industry has a rather bad reputation because of enthusiasts willing to overwork for pennies ruining it for everyone.

Javascript is kinda expected everywhere, but it's not the major selling point.

also the length of your runway is a factor - learning C++ takes at least few months, C#/Java ~a month. Python, you should be able to dive right in.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 10:23:16 2014 No.6677415

>>6677362
depends on what you want to do.

>>6677390
this if you want to work a software engineering job.

For more scientific and mathematical computing (aka, if you decide to get an MS in some science or anything math/stat-heavy): C, C++, matlab, R, and python are all a good general place to start (and you pick up others as you need them. For example, you might need fortran some day).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 10:25:24 2014 No.6677419 Because I'm an academic hipster and everyone else is studying it.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 10:25:56 2014 No.6677421

>>6673083

Nah, for hispanic people it's kinda extended for grad school. Then you reach pathetic mode. But I don't know how it works in low income family. In my upper middle-class bubble, parents will just buy/rent you an apartment or house. I kinda cheated since I live in a "summer" house they bought which just happened to be close to my college.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 10:29:02 2014 No.6677425 File: 12 KB, 200x320, 1313346028981.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6677415 >jobs in scientific computing

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:00:17 2014 No.6677475

>>6677369
>i am completely in denial

the minority of engineers do significant design jobs in my experience

lots of them, especially when starting out, find themselves in paperwork jobs, or doing maintenance, being monkeys for senior engineers

usually their first real design job is for some rubbish product that is an insult to their education

then if they ever get an actual real design/build job they are almost always working in large teams, so they only get to do one small part of the project

it's only very few engineers that have enough skill/luck/connections/experience to do what you think you are going to do

ironically that's why so many engineers end up just stealing coding jobs from computer scientists: because at least their doing something and making ok bank instead of filling out paperwork

csci monkeys have it about as bad, probably worse, although with the same combination of skill/luck/etc. they can also end up working on some really great stuff for big companies

the management route is one of the best bets for both csci's and engineers if they want to have real responsibility, good pay, and something to actually do, it usually isn't building cool stuff with your math/science wizardry though

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:07:38 2014 No.6677481 >>6677475 Can I steal coding jobs as a Computer Engineer?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:14:16 2014 No.6677486 >>6677481 yes

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:16:01 2014 No.6677491

>>6677481
Why would an employer take the extra risk? You'd have to demonstrate that you're a competent coder and that you're familiar with whatever frameworks they're using, and the chances of these being true is much higher if you've been a CS student who's had the life beaten out of him by Java for 4 years in uni.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:17:40 2014 No.6677494

>>6677481
You'd be more qualified as your code would probably be more optimized for the target machines.

A lot of these Python frameworks and bullshit are so slow it's clear they were only intended for the latest computers or a hypothetical infinitely fast computer.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:20:52 2014 No.6677500

>>6677491
But you don't need to take CS to learn coding, coding jobs are notorious for hiring people with no degrees, combine that with a CE degree which already gives knowledge about C and other low-level languages and self-taught Computer Science and surely you'd be up for employment?
My main gripe here is that as far as I know you actually learn things in Computer Engineering, and you can learn Computer Science and Software Engineering yourself with less difficulty, so if I'm already a good coder my degree doesn't actually matter, yet I still have extended knowledge from Computer Engineering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:24:40 2014 No.6677505 >>6677500 Anybody can pick up coding, hence the term "code monkey." CS is not a real degree, it just teaches what other scientists pick up naturally as-needed. see >>6676657

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:32:37 2014 No.6677514 >>6677425 I never said that you humongous faghole, unless you consider gradschool a job. Lurk more and learn to read, you iliterate faggot

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:36:47 2014 No.6677520

>>6677505
>All teachers of programming find that their results display a 'double hump'. It is as if there are two populations: those who can [program], and those who cannot [program], each with its own independent bell curve. Almost all research into programming teaching and learning have concentrated on teaching: change the language, change the application area, use an IDE and work on motivation. None of it works, and the double hump persists. We have a test which picks out the population that can program, before the course begins. We can pick apart the double hump. You probably don't believe this, but you will after you hear the talk. We don't know exactly how/why it works, but we have some good theories.

>Despite the enormous changes which have taken place since electronic computing was invented in the 1950s, some things remain stubbornly the same. In particular, most people can't learn to program: between 30% and 60% of every university computer science department's intake fail the first programming course. Experienced teachers are weary but never oblivious of this fact; brighteyed beginners who believe that the old ones must have been doing it wrong learn the truth from bitter experience; and so it has been for almost two generations, ever since the subject began in the 1960s.

http://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-from-non-programming-goats/

http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:37:52 2014 No.6677522 >>6677514 >expecting a CS major to know how to read

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:40:46 2014 No.6677526 File: 2.95 MB, 1600x1200, squidward.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw CS students will NEVER, EVER get jobs

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:45:13 2014 No.6677532

>>6677520
I can play the cherrypicking game. from the same blog:

>A surprisingly large fraction of applicants, even those with masters' degrees and PhDs in computer science, fail during interviews when asked to carry out basic programming tasks. For example, I've personally interviewed graduates who can't answer "Write a loop that counts from 1 to 10" or "What's the number after F in hexadecimal?" Less trivially, I've interviewed many candidates who can't use recursion to solve a real problem. These are basic skills; anyone who lacks them probably hasn't done much programming.

>even those with masters' degrees and PhDs in computer science

CS != programming
programming != CS

>inb4 you tell me you learn more in a BS than in an MS or PhD

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:47:00 2014 No.6677533 >>6677522 If I wanted to know how to read, i'd be an English major.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:50:21 2014 No.6677537 >>6677532 >what's the number after F in hexadecimal So it's 10, right

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:52:16 2014 No.6677541

>>6677532

Motherfuckers are cheating, paying other people to do their work and acamming the system to get a piece of paper and letters behind their name. Because *that* is what idiots think matter.

It's pervasive and rampant.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:55:13 2014 No.6677543 >>6677533 >never had to read So you're either unemployed or picked up your skills from youtube videos. Why did you need the CS degree, again?

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:58:55 2014 No.6677548

>>6677541
>get a piece of paper and letters behind their name.

But that's the majority of CS majors. You'd be hard pressed to find somebody who's not a dispassionate turd not doing it just because "hurr I want to work in coding" (yes, I used to hear Indian kids say they wanted an MS in CS and that's the reason they gave).

Those kinds of people turned it into this generation's law or business degree. It's why /sci/ gives CS so much shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 11:59:17 2014 No.6677551 >>6677425 i'm a diff anon, just so you don't be even more of a prick about it. Yeah... tons of them. Bioinformatics is huge, so is all sorts of statistical data analysis. So fuck you. You don't know anything.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:02:30 2014 No.6677555 >>6677541 >Congressional students are corrupt fucks that can't do work. In some ways I laugh, in others I want to murder everyone in law.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:03:49 2014 No.6677556 >>6677548 >having to compete with literal Autists It's not fair I know a sperg that got his AI and Computer Science Masters in 5.5 years. And did nothing for 6 and is a terrible human being.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:05:53 2014 No.6677559

>>6673081
yes good goy, split up your households into as many rental units as possible. More profit to the landlords!

I'm saving 10k a year by living at home, and whenever it's time to relocate for grad school, no lease, no hassle.

I moved out at 18 and have come back for short stints of 6-12 months, when appropriate.

Not everyone has a shitty relationship with their shitty broken-home WASP family.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:07:28 2014 No.6677560 >>6677556 Life's not fair. Go dig ditches you neurotypical scum.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:10:10 2014 No.6677564

>>6677491
>a CS student who's had the life beaten out of him by Java for 4 years in uni.

Yeah, because Java is so much tougher than C/C++, (both a CE's bread and butter).

Give me a break. Anybody who knows C++ can EASILY pick up Java in very little time. The other way around would be more effort.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:12:22 2014 No.6677569 >>6677556 >did nothing for 6 [years] Then he can't really be considered competition. You're fortunate that idiot behaved more like a waste of space than an actual threat (a retarded one, but still a threat).

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:19:41 2014 No.6677575
File: 1.13 MB, 5100x6600, X-Files-I-Want-To-Believe-Poster1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6677543
>>6677551
i'm a maths msc and a cs double, currently codemonekying for living.

how big is the guys chance to land a job requiring R, Fortran or Matlab? to stay in academia? 5-10%? if we're generous. and the knowledge of a programming language isn't a selling point there either.

realistically we're looking at a guy who'll be driving a taxi, selling insurance, or delivering mail if he doesn't learn how to fucking code.

>bioinformatics
>plenty of jobs

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:22:34 2014 No.6677577

>>6677421
>Nah, for hispanic people it's kinda extended for grad school. Then you reach pathetic mode.

That is true. They typically marry young, and if they reach late 20s, their parents, desperate to get them out of their house and in hopes of ever having grand children, will ramp up the pressure. I think it turns full pathetic mode if they reach 30, and are still living with their parents and single. At that point, even if they are still single, they will likely have moved out already.

>which just happened to be close to my college.

so you're still in college. If you went there straight from high school, you're in your late teens to early 20s and it's still pretty acceptable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:31:30 2014 No.6677591 I think you are lying about doing a double masters degree and working at the same time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:33:43 2014 No.6677594 >>6677575 100% if that's the jobs joy apply for. probability like that is retarded. You're some scrub lying on the internet.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:50:53 2014 No.6677614
File: 13 KB, 608x472, 20140802124533.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6677575

I am >>6677543
I fail to see how any of that has to do with knowing how to read. If that's your attempt at proving you can read, then you've failed miserably.

I'll just point it out for you. This is a direct quote from my original post:

>>6677415
>For more scientific and mathematical computing (aka, if you decide to get an MS in some science or anything math/stat-heavy)
>aka, if you decide to get an MS in some science or anything math/stat-heavy
>an MS

there. I was explicitly talking about gradschool, not jobs.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 12:58:04 2014 No.6677621

>>6677594
This. Those scientific computing jobs, though less common, are also exponentially less saturated. Competition for a java dev position will be ridiculous by comparison.

Besides, having a niche could never harm you. The more you know, the better off you will be.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 13:54:17 2014 No.6677694 >>6677203 >Java Fucking kill yourself

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 14:01:36 2014 No.6677702 Lol this thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 14:15:58 2014 No.6677740 >>6677694 >>Java It's C@

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 14:20:15 2014 No.6677750 >>6677194 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 14:33:32 2014 No.6677773 >>6677491 You learn absolutely nothing with a CS degree and something with a CE degree. The only risk the employers face when hiring a CE is that he might jump over to something better and higher paying before long.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:00:20 2014 No.6677815 >>6677548 This man speaks the truth

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:01:50 2014 No.6677820
File: 28 KB, 632x680, university.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>be a math major
>use a for loop to compute the euclidean distance between some data sets
>think you understand software engineering
>graduate and apply for software job because math is useless
>fail interviews because I never used linux and don't know what a git is
>become a 7th grade geometry teacher and troll on /sci/ about how dumb compsci majors are

a lot of you are somewhere along this life line

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:08:30 2014 No.6677827 >>6677820 >use a for loop to compute the euclidean distance between some data sets what the fuck does that even mean ~CS student with 0 advanced math experience detected~

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:21:46 2014 No.6677850 >>6677820 >software engineering no such thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:32:52 2014 No.6677865 >>6677740 meow

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:39:14 2014 No.6677870

>>6677820
>two Bachelors of math
>one is going to be an accountant, but failed his business test twice
>the other is going to be a machine shop person, as her brother makes more than her father is, when the father worked fifteen years at a company
>old as fuck guy became a Dr. of Education instead a Dr. of Math because he would have had to learn like 10 languages for foreign papers

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:50:14 2014 No.6677884 >>6677820 >I never used linux Irrelevant >git Literally you learn how to use this in half an hour.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:51:54 2014 No.6677887 File: 205 KB, 361x361, bottompep.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6677820 >no university-level degree >working as a software engineer in the outskirts of Atlanta making $65k keep blaming your major

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 15:58:27 2014 No.6677903

>>6677820
I majored in CS and had to do a lot of self-studying to be employable after graduation.

I learned git while on the job, not in school. I also learned how to not suck at linux from my job (during school, they forced us to use linux in some classes, but it was the same for CE. And back then I only learned enough to get by with Ubuntu - not much, in other words).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 16:07:25 2014 No.6677920 >>6677903 What did you self-study? Do you mean stuff like coding personal projects on the side?

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 16:16:16 2014 No.6677934

>>6677920
Yes.

Also took an online class on software as a service and ruby on rails, learned some php, javascript, android programming (luckily I knew some java at least), etc, since most jobs (at least when I was searching) seemed to be cloud, mobile, and general web dev.

I would've been unable to get an embedded or systems job since my C/C++ skills sucked. Only two languages I wasn't completely clueless about were java and python.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 16:53:39 2014 No.6677980 >>6672717 Because I can learn everything they learn as a mathematician.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:01:21 2014 No.6677990 >>6677980 >mfw got a bullshit degree cuz I fucked around and chased pussy >just took MOOCs and read books and played w/ Linux to learn CS stuff >going back for a 2nd BA in Maths finally

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:06:33 2014 No.6677994 >>6677990 why get a 2nd bachelors degree?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:12:11 2014 No.6677999 >>6677994 access to the right coursework... want a BA to force myself to take a language and cheaper tuition per credit hour

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:14:25 2014 No.6678003 >>6677994 and because I'm a maths pleb and actually want the undergrad curriculum...

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:16:34 2014 No.6678005 if any programmers in here aren't learning/using C++, you've already lost GOD TIER: C/C++ OK TIER: Java Javascript C# SHIT TIER: Python Ruby

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:18:28 2014 No.6678006 >>6678005 your list is bad and you should feel bad

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:37:38 2014 No.6678035 >>6678005 Java and javascript should be "I only learn it to get a job, but kill it with fire" tier Python is definitely OK tier at least.

Anonymous Sat Aug 2 17:53:30 2014 No.6678058

>>6678005
C++ is ok if you throw away the ugly parts (unnecessary boilerplate, metatemplate magic, clusterfuck libraries and libraries linking)

unfortunately the developer culture around it is totally pathological and stuck in the Addison-Wesley 2001 "Modern C++ Design" way of thinking.

C++11/14 encourages the rule of zero? Too bad son, you better start writing down all these overloads.

Return by value? But that's ineffective. Multithreading? What multithreading.

Didn't learn Boost even though it's discouraged in modern style guides? Guess who won't get that job after all.

And so on.

Collaboration in C++ is like making a delicious cake. You spend years studying recipes, experimenting with different cakes, to bring what's best to that cake. You're proud of your cake. It's a good cake. Then someone comes over and takes a big fat dump on the cake and calls you an idiot for not shitting on it by yourself in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 18:06:19 2014 No.6678081 >>6672774 You can tell he's into CS when he leaves his d/dt operator hanging.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 18:07:03 2014 No.6678083 >>6677934 >luckily I knew some java lol'd

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 2 18:14:54 2014 No.6678103 >>6678083 that's a random thing to laugh about for no reason. I'm not a big fan of java, but it is the language most sought after for android dev

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/sci/ - Science & Math