/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.6623637]

Hey /sci/,

What computer do you use?

I'm going in mathematical physics and I'm wondering what should I be looking for.

I'm gonna dump sciency gifs meanwhile

[Anonymous No.6623641]

[Anonymous No.6623644]

[Anonymous No.6623656]

[Anonymous No.6623664]

>>6623637
6 year old Dell XPS-M1330.
So many parts have failed. So many parts have been replaced for free.
Now the warranty is up and I'm holding on to it until its next critical failure.

[Anonymous No.6623668]

10 or 11yr old dell xps-400, upgraded ram and hdds, xp going strong.

[Anonymous No.6623671]

[Anonymous No.6623674]

It honestly doesn't matter since you rarely do anything computationally expensive unless you're also planning on gaming.

Just get something reliable.

[Anonymous No.6623675]

>>6623637
Grad student in physics here… I use a Macbook Pro. Best damn computerI ever owned. Pretty much everyone at my department uses Macs as well (MIT, physics).

[Anonymous No.6623682]

>>6623674
Not necessarily.

Higher level engineering courses will often require the use of design and simulation programs. I remember friends of mine having to upgrade because they couldn't run unisim satisfactorily.

[Anonymous No.6623685]

>>6623637
You're "going in"? You mean you're starting an undergrad or something?

If so, it really doesn't matter. you'll just be learning to code. Nothing computationally taxing. If you need more power for some project in a later year, use your institution's hardware. it'll be much better than anything you can get for under a gazillion dollars.

If you're more advanced than undergrad, the same rule applies.

[Anonymous No.6623697]

>>6623664
>>6623668
Oh okay, I see.

>>6623674
Thank you!

[Anonymous No.6623698]

>>6623637
Macbook Pro from 2012.

[Anonymous No.6623699]

>>6623682
I think something is wrong here.

I'm finishing an engineering degree. Yes, there are computationally taxing things, namely CAD, but schools usually provides computer labs with workstation GPUs specifically to do that on. Mine even lets me remote access them from home.

I can't tell if I'm fortunate or your friend's just lazy and dumb. I've visited over 3 engineering departments besides my own and these labs seem to be commonplace.

[Anonymous No.6623700]

If you are doing anything super computational, you will probably use your school's server

[Anonymous No.6623706]

>>6623675
I know a lot of people in my physics department uses that too, but I'm not a big Macbook fan personnally.

>>6623682
Good thing I won't take engineering courses.

>>6623685
Thanks for the advice! (Yeah, I'm starting as an undergrad)

[Anonymous No.6623708]

>>6623700
This is the beautiful thing about code: it's a tiny text file.

You'll run little test programs on your shitty laptop, then scale it up and run it on someone else's big servers.

[Anonymous No.6623712]

>>6623700
>>6623708
Okay, thank you!

[Anonymous No.6623717]

>I'm going in mathematical physics and I'm wondering what should I be looking for.
use whatever the fuck you want, anything actually important will be done on campus computational clusters, not your local machine

[Anonymous No.6623721]

>>6623706
>I'm starting as an undergrad

Where are you going? What country?
I did a course called mathematical physics in the uk.

Had a module on Matlab in my first year. I wasn't doing anything you'd really need processing power for. They weren't real "physics" problems i needed an answer to. they were exercises to familiarise yourself with matlab and programming in general: loops, lists, arrays, functions etc.

Never touched a computer for my course in 3rd year.

Ran some statistical simulations in python for a project in my 3rd year, (because matlab is shitty). Used the university servers to run the final program, wrote the code on the same shitty laptop I used in year 1. Probably could have run the program on it too if I could be arsed to wait that long.

I don't know about your course, but mine was half in the maths, half in the physics department.
You basically wont go within 60 feet of a computer for the whole of the math portion.

[Anonymous No.6623723]

>>6623706
My PhD lab was all windows. My postdoc lab is all macs. They are great for stimulus presentation. Fuck VBA

[Anonymous No.6623726]

>>6623721
>because matlab is shitty
ISHYGDDT

[Anonymous No.6623728]

>>6623699
I was in an engineering program and I'd rather do stuff on my own computer, than use the labs, as I work at odd hours and having software that I chose makes things easier (I remember having to install MikTeX on every lab computer I used)
Never really had troubles with engineering programs, but I never drew anything too complicated.
> lets me remote access them from home.
that's neat. we definitely didn't have that set up for the school, but I had some friends set up their own.

[Anonymous No.6623731]

>>6623726
Are you saying matlab is good?

>Shitty memory management
>No lists. Anywhere. Ever.
>That source code

etc. etc.

This is a pretty comprehensive list of why it's bad:
http://abandonmatlab.wordpress.com/


It's very good as a graphing calculator.
It's very good for doing small matrix tasks quickly.
It's good if you really can't be arsed to code anything properly, which makes it good for small tasks.

It's not much good at anything else. It costs a lot of money.

[Anonymous No.6623740]

>>6623706
>I'm not a big Macbook fan personnally.
Why? They're pretty much objectively the best laptop PCs on the market. At my university we're given a choice between MacBooks and Dell machines when we start Ph.D.s. There is one guy in the physics department who chose the Dell, and he's now the laughing stock of the grad student body because his machine is a piece of shit he chose based on 'not liking Mac'.

People who say they don't like Macs almost always do so for irrational reasons. Even if you hate OS X a MacBook is still the best choice to run windows on, as far as laptops go. Its all of the 'proprietary bullshit' that makes them strong. Exceptional build quality (have you ever taken one apart?), and all of the small things like sensible charging ports, well calibrated temperature regulation that doesn't rely on massive fans and tidy internal cable/bay management that make them the clear winners.

Up to you anyway, but given the choice between a free mac and a free Dell, even as a guy who had never used a mac machine before, it was pretty clear to me what to pick. And clear to all the other maths/physics grads at my university (except that one guy), because we reason based on empirical reality, rather than internet-induced brand-loyalty. Of course when you're paying for it yourself there's cost to consider as well, and Macs are on the more expensive side.

[Anonymous No.6623743]

>>6623726
Resizing a 1D array in matlab:
>take array 1x3
>create new blank array 1x4
>copy each element of original array across to new array.
>add new value to 4th entry of new array
>delete old array

Resize 1D array in any other language ever:
>Add new element.
>assign value to new element.

You have an array with 5,000,000 elements?
You have to create a new array with 5,000,001 entries then copy across 5,000,000 data points.
That's lightning fast, as you might imagine.

[Anonymous No.6623744]

>>6623721
I'm living in Quebec, Canada (so it's not exactly the same as the rest of Canada). And yeah, my course is pretty much half in the maths and half in the physics department, but I don't know if I have a lot of computer-only modules (exempt for one small module called computer-assisted mathematics).

[Anonymous No.6623746]

>>6623731
>It's very good for doing small matrix tasks quickly.

Its very good for doing ALL matrix tasks quickly. And that's what makes it good. Its MATLAB or Fortran, and MATLAB is a lot easier. Cost is not really an issue, most academic institutions have wide ranging licencing.

[Anonymous No.6623753]

>>6623740
>Macs are on the more expensive side.
like on the 50% markup because theres an apple logo on the front of it side dude. they are fucking ridiculous. sure if it is free you might as well because it is pretty much the better value, dell is a pretty shitty laptop maker too. but if you were paying for it all those mildly nice and convenient advantages you brought up would be outweighed by the fact that you are paying fucking $500 for them.

[Anonymous No.6623755]

>>6623637
Wow, a computer thread on 4chan that hasn't been derailed by brand rivalry

I'm not a physics major myself but you pretty much can't go wrong with a Macbook like others have been recommending. IT's a good, practical design and, while it might be a little more expensive, it won't shit the bed on you if you take care of it.

I'm sure a thinkpad would do great, as well, though mine had some fan issues, as in it would just overheat and shut itself off.

>inb4 thread derailed by brand rivalry

[Anonymous No.6623757]

>>6623743
>Retards who have no idea how to use matlab trying to talk about it
Wow.

[Anonymous No.6623762]

>>6623746
>have wide ranging licencing
Well, mine had licencing for use on their machines, which meant I couldn't work on the code at 4 in the morning in bed.

>ALL matrix tasks
Provided they don't involve resizing. As this anon >>6623743 points out.
Also provided the matrices aren't massive and you don't need to manage your memory. Which you almost always have to, as the matlab program is bloated because it's full of toolkits and functions and fancy graphics and interfaces and bollocks I'll never use.

[Anonymous No.6623765]

>>6623755
BUT MACS FUCKING SUCK YOU FUCKING TOSSPOT

[Anonymous No.6623768]

>>6623753
I think you exaggerate the cost difference a little. The majority of the price difference is accounted for in the build quality, then maybe like 20% cult of apple mark up. Its also worth noting that you should consider buying macs with minimum RAM and drives, then upgrade RAM and drives yourself, as a majority of the markup comes from these trivially-replaceable components.

[Anonymous No.6623769]

>>6623765

[Anonymous No.6623775]

>>6623769
I really don't know what emotion that image is supposed to portray...

[Anonymous No.6623778]

>>6623775
Here's a better one

[Anonymous No.6623785]

>>6623778

[Anonymous No.6623790]

Hi OP. I just finished a degree in physics and wrote my thesis in computational astrophysics. I use an asus ux32vd with a solid state drive, and I run ubuntu 12.04 LTS. Pretty much all the faculty use macbook pros or Imacs for their work. However, most of the time you do simulations by remotely logging in to a server running a linux based OS, so having a powerful computer is handy, but not necessary. I would highly recommend using linux or mac OS, since you'll want to gain some UNIX familiarity. For software and languages, you'll probably want to learn about FORTRAN, Python, bash scripting, gnuplot, LaTeX, Matlab, and possibly C, C++, NI LabView, and other stuff more specific to your degree and courses. Learn how to use a decent text editor, debuggers for your programming language, and an IDE if one is useful for you. Become familiar with Git and version control so you can organize any code and projects you develop. This is a lot of stuff, but you won't need it all at once, and you have years to learn it.

[Anonymous No.6623793]

>>6623762
>Also provided the matrices aren't massive and you don't need to manage your memory.
I will concede that MATLAB memory management is terrible, but its still a useful tool. You can bash together MATLAB code to quickly solve problems in mathematics without getting bogged down in 'programming'.

[Anonymous No.6623797]

>>6623757
But that is what mat;ab does in it's source code when you resize an array. It's super slow.

You can read it yourself. The source for all it's functions is written in C under the hood.

That's why it gives you the little warning here:
http://www.mathworks.co.uk/help/matlab/math/resizing-and-reshaping-matrices.html#f1-85788

>Note If you intend to expand the size of a matrix repeatedly over time as it requires more room (usually done in a programming loop), it is advisable to preallocate space for the matrix when you initially create it.

That's why. Becuase matlab is shit at doing it.

[Anonymous No.6623802]

Macs are practically just iCores now anyway... you should be able to buy an acer and install ios on it...
just imagine... amd running mac stuff ^^
would that be a worlds-first? i bet it'd be rare anyway =)
if it doesn't spit chips at you for cost-cutting..

[Anonymous No.6623803]

>>6623793
Agreed. Which is what I had in mind when I typed
>It's good if you really can't be arsed to code anything properly, which makes it good for small tasks.
here: >>6623731

Although arguably I didn't express that very well

[Anonymous No.6623805]

>>6623726
>using matlab over R

[Anonymous No.6623814]

>>6623768
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-macbook-pro-intel-core-i5-13-3-display-4gb-memory-500gb-hard-drive/5430505.p?id=1218646127726&skuId=5430505&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=5430505&extensionType=pla:g&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!!!37678873279!g!!49989919279&kpid=5430505&k_clickid=7ba76a67-fdec-2a09-13d5-00006f407ad6
$1139 macbook
500gb HDD
2.5GHz i5
onboard intel graphics
4GB ram
13.3" screen

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834313742
$899, over $200 cheaper
500GB SSHD
6GB RAM
motherfucking SLI nvidia laptop graphics
15" screen

It's nearly a $250 savings, that's nearly 1/3 the price of the windows laptop, and it is a MUCH better machine, better ram, vastly better graphics, bigger screen, better in every way. This is why macs are shitty.

>Its also worth noting that you should consider buying macs with minimum RAM and drives, then upgrade RAM and drives yourself, as a majority of the markup comes from these trivially-replaceable components.
Fuck that shit, man, taking apart a fucking macbook to replace the drives is not "trivial", you have had too many asshole engineering professors. Taking apart a laptop is tricky as fuck because it is easy to fuck up and break it, I've done so on a windows laptop. And with a macbook if you break it you just blew fucking $1200 because you voided the warranty and good luck finding someone to fix it, you probably will have to send it in and pay like $400 for repairs. That isn't even an option for anyone who isn't really computer savvy and for those that are, this isn't a relevant debate, they aren't gonna pay for a macbook in the first place.

[Anonymous No.6623815]

OP go here:
http://www.ktgee.net/guides
It's from the wiki of /g/
I would suggest you get a used business-grade laptop like: Thinkpad, Dell Precision or Latitude or HP Elitebook. It don't what you get, they are all pretty well made. Thinkpad has the most quality build.

I have a T420 and it works great.

Macs are for total noobs who don't understand what software freedom is all about.

[Anonymous No.6623823]

>>6623815
>>6623790
Okay, I'll check that out!

[Anonymous No.6623824]

>>6623744
Chances are you'll not use a computer very much then, at least for the first couple of years.

You'll probably have to option of using it for projects later, but if you're anything like me, you'll have no idea what you'll want to do later, or you'll think you do then you'll totally change your mind once you actually get to university.

[Anonymous No.6623829]

>>6623637
1x: ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS
2x: Xeon E5-2687W v2 (2x8 cores x 3.4GHz)
4x: AMD Radeon HD 7970
8x: 16GB ECC DDR3
5x: 256GB SSD (RAID5)
8x: 4TB 7200RPM HDD (RAID6)

[Anonymous No.6623851]

>>6623814
>Fuck that shit, man, taking apart a fucking macbook to replace the drives is not "trivial", you have had too many asshole engineering professors.

I've never had any engineering professors. I suck at all things mechanical, and yet I have performed this upgrade on a handful of macs as small as 13' in under half an hour without damaging anything... It is truly trivial.

But okay, I take your point. Its not fair to consider this a mitigating factor in the price, even if it is for me personally.

>That isn't even an option for anyone who isn't really computer savvy and for those that are, this isn't a relevant debate, they aren't gonna pay for a macbook in the first place.

I completely disagree that computer savvy people won't pay for macbooks in the first place. Personally I would pay for a macbook over any other laptop on the market. It doesn't just come down to the number of theoretical FLOPS the machine can produce... There're considerations like battery life, durability, weight, style (yes, style is a genuine concern), noise, heat production, power consumption... Etc.

You can claim that the MacBook is some kind of invalid choice all you please, and pricing is a genuine concern to raise, but at the end of the day we can see from reality that many computer literate users choose macs for rational reasons. I'm not saying they're the only option, and those IdeaPads are great machines too - out of the two you listed I'd take the idea pad. But I'd also consider spending more to get a more powerful MacBook, because I have high income and because MacBooks consistently prove to be the best machines available for all the non-tech-spec considerations.

[Anonymous No.6623860]

>>6623815
>Macs are for total noobs who don't understand what software freedom is all about.

Software freedom is not inherently good. Access to a filtered ecosystem of high quality software that interacts as intelligently as possible with the operating system is seen by many users as a good thing.

We live in a world with options. Choosing a mac may limit your software options... But some people see it as filtering them. I mean go out and buy an iPhone 5s, a Lumia 920, and an S5 and use each for a few months and see which one crashes more, has the worst overheating issues, etc etc. I can practically guarantee it won't be the iPhone. (I use phones for the examples because they're a lot easier to pick out than PCs, and similar in principle.)

[Anonymous No.6623899]

>>6623731
>>Shitty memory management

"clear x" isn't hard

>>No lists. Anywhere. Ever.

They're called cell arrays

>>That source code

and python's white space bullshit is better?

>It costs a lot of money.

http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/9486580/MATLAB_R2013b_8.2.0.701_R2013b_x64_32_[2013__ENG]

>>6623743
>>take array 1x3
>>create new blank array 1x4
>>copy each element of original array across to new array.
>>add new value to 4th entry of new array
>>delete old array

If troll 10/10. Otherwise you're a flaming idiot.
>>A=[pi exp(1) sqrt(2)];
>>A=[A i];
>>A'
ans =
3.1416
2.7183
1.4142
0 - 1.0000i
>> R=rand(5000000,1);
>> tic; R=[R;rand(1)]; toc
Elapsed time is 0.04461 seconds.

It's faster than python+numpy's concatenate operation too (~.048secs)

>>6623797
>>Note If you intend to expand the size of a matrix repeatedly over time as it requires more room (usually done in a programming loop), it is advisable to preallocate space for the matrix when you initially create it.
>That's why. Because matlab is shit at doing it.

No, you've completely misunderstood the advice and it applies to ALL programming languages:
>int* ptr=null;
>for(i=1;i<5000000;i++){
>>ptr=(int*) realloc ((void*) ptr, sizeof(int)*i);
>>ptr[i-1]=calculation_result(i);
>}
is just as insanely retarded and you should
>int* ptr=(int*) calloc ( 5000000, sizeof(int));
>for(i=1;i<5000000;i++){
>>ptr[i-1]=calculation_result(i);
>}

[Anonymous No.6623902]

>>6623698
>>6623675
>>6623740
>>6623755

Kill yourselves

>>6623768
>The majority of the price difference is accounted for in the build quality

HAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.6623926]

>>6623902
You realise how petty and stupid you are, right?

[Anonymous No.6623944]

>>6623899
>A=[A i];
>R=[R;rand(1)];
mon visage when MATLAB's notation for adding elements

[Anonymous No.6623958]

>>6623851
>heat production
Why would you mention that in an argument <span class="math">for[/spoiler] Apple computers?

[Anonymous No.6623963]

>>6623944
matrices are king and you can't have matrices of matrices.
it's a quirk of the language and you should be avoiding appending to matrices anyway.

[Anonymous No.6623979]

>>6623926
It's not petty, shit's nice but also overpriced.

[Anonymous No.6623981]

>>6623740
You are pretty realistic, OP probably isn't a mac fan because of games.

[Anonymous No.6624023]

>>6623899
yep, build retarded algorithms, expect retarded performance.. goes for any language =)