Thought Experiment - Divergent Evolution in Man

[Anonymous No.6592167]

Hi /sci/, /pol/itician here. I was hoping I could run a thought experiment by you guys based on a discussion we had in an interstellar politics thread last night.

The situation is this - humans have started to colonize other star systems but at sublight speeds (say, no greater than 0.9 c). Different colonies are able to remain in contact with one another (albeit with decades of lag) but since sublight travel prevents them from travelling between systems in any kind of timely or practical manner, there isn't any kind of regular commerce or transit between systems (no cross-breeding between humans from different systems)

If all these worlds differ slightly from Earth and from one another (some have more or less gravity, some have harsher or milder climates, different atmospheric conditions like Argon/Oxygen instead of Nitrogen/Oxygen, etc etc) how might humans change over successive generations? Would these minor differences be enough to lead our descendants evolving into distinct species?

What to you guys think?

[Dr. John D. Titor No.6592193]

With Divergence comes Convergence. You are right. We are entering The Great Convergence as we speak.

Who Do You Think The Greys Are?

[Anonymous No.6592204]

>>6592193
Go back to /x/ Titor

[Anonymous No.6592229]

>>6592167
Could humans even breathe an Ar/O2 atmosphere?

[Anonymous No.6592475]

>>6592229
Not comfortably, at least not if you're talking about the same concentration as Nitrogen in our atmosphere. The air would be 70% heavier.

At any rate, I cant think of a scenario in planetary formation where you'd get rid of all the Nitrogen but still have a non-negligible atmosphere.

I suppose you could end up with a situation where maybe like the atmosphere is a mix of Nitrogen, Argon, and Oxygen - that might work

[Anonymous No.6593056]

>>6592229
They can breathe an Ar/O2 atmosphere, but many sources mention several concerns about heavier argon air wearing out the muscles you use to breath which can lead to insufficient oxygen turnover and death. They do not say how long such at thing takes to happen or whether it can be overcome with physical training. It is worth noting the lack of hard details I can find on it.

However this and other issues are compensated in documented experimental mixtures (for scuba diving and space suit testing) by using something around 50% argon 50% oxygen mixture (not exact amounts, but somewhere near there) which has to be calibrated for the pressure it is used at. There are some poor references to a mixture with a slightly lower oxygen percent working well around 1.5 atm, but it noted pressure changes could induce oxygen toxicity or argon narcosis depending on which way the pressure changed (although it didn't say how much of a change it took, the surrounding wording implies it was less then 0.3 atm).

So it seems there is evidence to suggest humans can live in some kind of Ar/O2 atmosphere, but the range of survivability is smaller which makes it inconvenient. If we allow for technology assistance like pressure suits or oxygen enrichment tanks survivability is all but assured, excluding some extreme cases which tend to kill everything.

>>6592167
As for OP question, I would assume larger and stronger lungs to get the oxygen needed and some minor tweaking to blood chemistry and liver to deal with other things, namely argon narcosis. But that assumes I believe such a Divergent Evolution can happen in the first place. (see rest of post of context and things)

[Anonymous No.6593074]

>>6592167
I suppose it depends on how severe the differences are.

Small differences like g being a few percent more or less than Earth normal I could see adapting too over many generations, but if you're talking about trying to live an entire lifespan let alone multiple generations on a planet where there's 20% more gravity or a radically different atmosphere, or extremely harsh climate conditions... I don't know if the human body can survive those kinds of stresses for an entire lifespan.

Hell, we start experiencing bone density loss after just a couple weeks in microgravity.

[truckerfag !!+KSIm6sOufE No.6593127]

>>6592167
Even if the new planet was exactly like Earth, the travelers would evolve into a distinct species. Genetic isolation is a driver of species divergence because the two genetic groups would be distinct from the onset, with the two collective genotypes being different from one another before breeding even began. Eventually, random mutations alone could cause enough variation in the two groups to make them unable to interbreed, though selective pressures would act much faster and dramatically.

[Anonymous No.6593321]

>>6593127
Cool I didn't know that

[Anonymous No.6593324]

>>6592167
>a /pol/fag starting an actual science thread

I never thought I'd see the day :'^)

[Anonymous No.6593346]

>>6593324
We've been seeing a lot more really good science, space, and technology discussions on /pol/ the last week or two, so I thought I'd return the favor by trying to start an interesting discussion here.

I know /pol/ and /sci/ have our differences but as far as I'm concerned you guys are alright - you're welcome to come by any time.

[Anonymous No.6593350]

>>6592167
Here's the biggest issue I see with this. At .9 c the crew on your ship won't age all that much between destinations so there would be transport and commerce. It'd be the people planetside that would experience the lag.

Additionally there'd have to be something massively valuable to justify that kind of cost of transport instead of just sending the plans for making more.

But back to your main point: this is both a concern and there have been both stories about it and suggestions on how to deal with it and maintain a long distance empire like what you're describing. Karl Schroeder recently wrote a book and an essay in Analog about a Lockstep society where everyone in the empire, on planets and ships, goes into suspended animation at the same time to keep in lockstep with each other.

If you'd like to know more and get further reading suggestions I'd hit up the Interstellar Empire page at Atomic Rockets and ask around on SF lit forums.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/stellarempire.php

My own thoughts on the matter are that we will diverge as a species, probably to the point where we won't be able to interbreed after enough time. I also don't think there will be any interstellar empires and certainly no galactic empires because of the distances involved. Keep in mind it's too difficult for any one power to control the entire planet now and a galactic empire will require one power commanding literally billions of worlds stretched over tens of thousands of lightyears.

I doubt Lockstep is a solution either because the temptation will be too great for one faction to break lockstep and conquer the others during the great sleep.

>Pic related. Centauri colonists in a few generations.

[Anonymous No.6593361]

Day and night cycles are easily explained on a flat earth. The sun moves in circles around the North Pole. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night. The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves. When the sun is further away from the North Pole, it's winter in the northern hemiplain (or hemisphere) and summer in the south.

The earth is in the form of a disk with the North Pole in the center and Antarctica as a wall around the edge. This is the generally accepted model among members of the society. In this model, circumnavigation is performed by moving in a great circle around the North Pole.

The earth is surrounded on all sides by an ice wall that holds the oceans back. This ice wall is what explorers have named Antarctica. Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey. What we do know is that it encircles the earth and serves to hold in our oceans and helps protect us from whatever lies beyond.
"Aliens" are demons. They take forms to fit mythological beings in different eras. Gnomes, goblins, pixies, faeries, trolls, etc.
In today's day and age, human beings are fascinated with the concept of extraterrestrials.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../pope-francis-aliens_n......
Look up project L.U.C.I.F.E.R., the telescope in the Vatican. Apparently they see so many UFOs it's starting to get annoying. It's like seeing grass at this point. It's just normal.
There are no other celestial beings in the universe. Actually, there is no universe. We're alone and we have a creator.

[Anonymous No.6593362]

>>6593361
>flatpill

[Anonymous No.6593369]

>>6593361
Fuck off flat earth conspiracy guy, I'm totally about to seal the deal with /sci/! Don't fucking blow this for me, bro!

[Anonymous No.6593374]

>>6593361
you're making /sci/ look worse than /pol/.

[Anonymous No.6593383]

>>6593350
The problem with that kind of commerce is you're talking about decades of lag between placing orders, receiving orders, sending shipments, and receiving shipments.

In the 0.9 c scenario, even If you and I are even just 9 light years apart it takes a minimum of 19 years for me to send and receive my order, 20 years for your transport to make the trip, and 8.7 years for your ship's crew. And those kind of distances and speeds are probably being super-optimistic.

I really can't see any kind of interstellar commerce system developing in a sublight galaxy.

[Anonymous No.6593388]

>>6593361
You're mixing your conspiracy conjectures. The Lucifer Project was the belief that NASA intended to use the RTGs on the Cassini probe to turn Saturn or Jupiter (depending on the version) into another sun. It's too bad Arthur C. Clarke wrote a story about it first or they could have made some money.

[Anonymous No.6593390]

>>6593361
There are aliens in the Vatican, we all go to hell when we die, Christianity is sun worship, and the earth is flat. >flatpill
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/12/pope-francis-aliens_n_5310935.html

[Anonymous No.6593393]

>>6593388
>Believing NASA shills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp9Y8I6v_Ds