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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6525837 No.6525837 [Reply] [Original]

Why do some mathematicians believe that math is proof of the existence of a god? To me there seems to be no connection, and that math is a construct of mankind that has been continuously developed and should be considered an achievement, not a discovery.

>> No.6525840

Truth is my god

The scientific theory, my dogma

Hypothesis and experiment, my prayer

>> No.6525844

>>6525840
Sprite, my blood-of-Christ

The fedora, the only thing above my brain

>> No.6525848

>>6525837
Even the mathematicians that consider mathematics discovered don't necessarily believe in a monotheist god. Afterall, if mathematics truly is discovered and inherent then even a diety would have to abide by it.

>> No.6525853

>>6525837
You can't add zero and zero to get one. It's a rather roundabout and reddity way of saying "something can't come from nothing." I don't think it's a very sound idea anyways, though. Do you have any quotes by mathematicians/philosophers saying that?

>> No.6525864

Well, in Newton's case, it could simply be ignorance.

Newton discovered the laws that showed how the Universe remains in place. He thought, though, that for it to get in that state in the first place, there simply must have been a creator.
Along comes Laplace some decades later and shows mathematically that no creator would be needed and how the order could arise from science alone.

>> No.6525868

Because we can use it to describe unrelated things with similar methods. We can basically describe anything basing on such little as ZFC axioms (and sometimes ignorance of theoretical physicists), so some consider this as a sign that all is planned by a higher being with maths being the language it used to design out world.

>> No.6525873

>>6525853
You can, if you don't axiomize zero as the identity and + as the operation of the group of natural numbers.

>> No.6525874

>>6525864
>Along comes Laplace some decades later and shows mathematically that no creator would be needed and how the order could arise from science alone.
Citation needed?

>> No.6525878
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6525878

>>6525837

>Why do some mathematicians believe that math is proof of the existence of a god?

Because when your only tool is a hammer all of your problems look like nails.

Also newton would have been considered a heretic and excommunicated if his beliefs had been found out before he died.

>> No.6525879

>>6525878
Mathematics is still the most effective hammer we have. Much better than all those armchair philosophical bullshits.

>> No.6525883

>>6525878
It's the opposite, really. All proofs of God are post hoc.

>> No.6525884

>>6525878
Why do the people who truly make large steps in math and science always turn out to be somewhat of an autist? Believing in alchemy and secret messages in the bible...

>> No.6525894

>>6525884
Autism is required for making significant advancement in mathematics

>> No.6525899

>>6525874
probably refers to Laplace expressing the idea of scientific determinism. I disagree that was the point religion failed beyond recovery though.
Accounting for how life can come form trough spontaneous reactions and evolve into the super complex creatures we see around us in the world today,
all without any designer having a hand in the process is what killed off religion. Members of the inteligencia realized man made god a long time before that
of course but it was that development that made the idea into common sense accessible to anyone.

>> No.6525905
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6525905

>> No.6525910

>>6525853
>Do you have any quotes by mathematicians/philosophers saying that?

I was mainly thinking of Gödel's proof and Newton claiming his discoveries to be above all the existence of a god (which is just astonishing to me but maybe just a result of the times), but you can find this shit everywhere by searching "math is proof of god".

>> No.6525936

>>6525840
Heh I like this, even if it is a little hypocritical.

>> No.6525938 [DELETED] 

>>6525879
Hard to disagree with that.

>> No.6525959

>>6525936
Son, we need to talk.

>> No.6525978

>>6525874
In his Mécanique Céleste he shows how the order of the solar system can arise without need of a God.