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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6513896 No.6513896 [Reply] [Original]

What's the overall scientific consensus on transhumanism?

>> No.6513926

the religion of the 21st century. Makes man aspire to a noble endeavor that progresses and benefits all.

Unseen horrors await.

>> No.6513934

How does it differ from Humanism?

>> No.6513961

>>6513934
A drive towards compleation.

>> No.6513962

>>6513934
http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/simplified/

inb4 >yidkowsky

>> No.6513977

>>6513896
>Unseen horrors await.
throngs of transhuman cyborgs duking it out amidst the glassed-out shells of once prosperous cities when?

>> No.6513989

>>6513896
THis website:

Http://orionsarm.com

Read it and weep tears of both joy an sorrow. the future is fucking intense

>> No.6514005

>>6513896
Since transhumanism is, if anything, a philosophical position, science doesn't have much to say about it.

Most of the technologies they talk about are pretty far off, though, although brain-computer interfaces are definitely fast approaching the present day, so at least you'll get your cyborgs. (Mind uploading, human genetic engineering, and immortality are all a LONG way off, though.)

>> No.6514007

>>6513896

>scientific consensus on an ideology

5/10, some rage

>> No.6514009

>>6513896
Replacing Theistic Jesus with Robotic Jesus.

Promises of eternal life, untold pleasures, and enlightenment, but only if you believe in it, sign up to cryonics and fund the singularity movement!

>> No.6514012

>>6514009
3/10

>> No.6514017

>>6514007
>some rage
that's at least 6/10

>> No.6514025

Transhumanism is a fantasy.

It's much more likely we will run into resource scarcity and industrialized civilization will collapse and never come back.

>> No.6514060
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6514060

>>6513896

>> No.6514062
File: 605 KB, 1024x2898, LessWrong Eldritch Abomination.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6514062

What does /sci/ think about LessWrong community? Pic related.

>> No.6514084
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6514084

>>6514060

>> No.6514109

>>6514062
weirdos who are worrying about really esoteric things. I do like their take on teaching everyone rational decision making though. I'm trying to apply their methods to both myself, my nephews, and other children I teach.

>> No.6514114

Transhumanism is scientology for children

>> No.6514126

>>6514114
Is that something the Unabomber told you?

>> No.6514129

>scientific consensus
what are you smoking D:

>> No.6514144

>>6514060
>phd in math
>ai researcher

lmao… yeah, believable! whoever wrote that comic is a fucking idiot.

>> No.6514150

>>6514144
Yeah bro, fuck those mathfags. AI is all about talking robots like you see in the movies and has nothing to do with math.

>> No.6514214

>>6514150
pure math autism has little to do with AI research

>> No.6514222

>>6514214
Nobody mentioned "pure" math. Learn to read.

>> No.6514231
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6514231

On a related note, how long will I realistically have to wait before technology allows me to fully change my biological sex?

>> No.6514233

>>6514222
a phd in math is a phd in pure math

that's not how doctoral programmers work

you have a phd in mathematical neuroscience, mathematical physics, mathematical finance, computer science, statistics, etc

no 'applied math'

>> No.6514234

>>6513896
it'll never happen....

unless YOU work on it.

>> No.6514238

>>6514233
A PhD thesis in math doesn't have to be about "pure" math. You are wrong. Please don't talk about things you don't understand. You've clearly never been in a university.

>> No.6514240

>>6514231
probably never depending on your definition of self

>> No.6514245

>>6514150
AI is about CS. It's as simple as that. Odds that a Math fаggоt can create AI is as slim as expecting a monkey to write a sentence in english.

>> No.6514250

>>6514245
AI research is done by mathematicians and physicists because it's too math heavy

>> No.6514253

>>6514238
>>6514238
>Please don't talk about things you don't understand.
too bad that's exactly what you're doing

and yes it does, unless of course you go to some retard university with no departments where the topic doesn't fit into a sub field like it should

>> No.6514254

>>6514245
>create AI

And now we know that you have no idea what you're talking about. Next you're gonna tell us AI is about creating conscious/sentient machines.

>> No.6514256

>>6514250
>AI research is done by mathematicians and physicists because it's too math heavy

LOL! you're an idiot.

>> No.6514257

>>6514254
you can check backgrounds of top AI researchers. And where the fuck is AI being taught? In math departments? Is AI required course for math students? LMAO… you have to be an idiot to even ask such a stupid question.

>> No.6514261

>>6514256
Cry me a river.

>>6514257
Do you really think your shallow and dumbed down intro class where they barely showed you a neural network qualifies as research level AI?

>> No.6514262

>>6514250
CS researchers do CS. Mathematicians and physicists do math and physics, respectively. Why can't you accept the meanings of very simple, fully standardized titles used formally across all academia?

>> No.6514269

>>6514261
>Do you really think your shallow and dumbed down intro class where they barely showed you a neural network qualifies as research level AI?

Fine. Show me one Math department that offers grad course in AI.

>> No.6514272

>>6514262
Mathematicians and physicists do interdisciplinary research in all fields. Welcome to academia, numbnut.

>> No.6514274

>>6514269
We are talking about research, not shitty intro courses for students. Do you even know what research is? Ever heard that word before? Or does it not appear in your pop sci youtube videos?

>> No.6514278

>>6514274
>>6514272
>Mathematicians and physicists do interdisciplinary research in all fields. Welcome to academia, numbnut.

To do research in a field you need to know a lot about a subject. Physicists and mathematicians know fuck-all about AI because it's irrelevant to their field and they have no coursework for it.

You math idiots still haven't produced a single math AI course.

>> No.6514280

>>6514025
I prefer to win the game of humanity, rather than apathetically note its imminent permanent failure.

>>6514231
singularity+2 years or 2100, whichever is less.

>> No.6514286

>>6514272
Interesting how you introduce me to something you yourself are clearly not familiar with...

The overwhelming majority of AI publications (yes, math-laden ones) come from CS researchers publishing in CS journals dealing with AI. Not mathematicians/physicists doing the same.

>> No.6514287

>>6514278
Are you seriously saying trivial coursework in dumbed down intro courses qualifies you to "know something" about a field or to do research in it? Your delusions are hilarious. If a PhD decides to do research, she'll read a lot of books and papers on a level someone like you will never understand. The contents of your retard courses (which are intentionally designed for retards like you) are expected to be learned by a PhD within less than one weekend. Kid, I hate to destroy your world view, but with that attitude of yours you're never gonna do research.

>> No.6514293

>>6514286
>vacuous claims

Reality doesn't abide by your fantasies.

>> No.6514296
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6514296

>>6514287

LOL… math autist called me a kid. I'm probably older than you.

Concepts from pure math or physics are fucking irrelevant for AI. AI is about algorithms. Also, pic fucking related.

>> No.6514301

What the fuck is going on in this thread?
Lot of shitposting
0 references
100 muh education muh kids muh retards muh penis bigger than yours
toppers of keks

>> No.6514302

>>6514296
Algorithms are math. They are designed and verified by mathematicians. Nobody else has sufficient background knowledge to do this.

>> No.6514303

>>6514293
>has literally never, ever ever ever read a CS paper published >1995 in his life or been to an academic CS department
You should read your post again and see how what you've written applies to you, not me.

>> No.6514308

>>6514303
>more vacuous insults

Calm down and accept reality.

>> No.6514309

>>6514302
0/100 troll

not even trying anymore!

>> No.6514310
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6514310

>>6514060

Someone spent all that time to make a dumb strawman comic

>> No.6514311
File: 97 KB, 581x631, Screen Shot 2014-05-03 at 5.17.50 PM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6514311

>>6514302
>Algorithms are math. They are designed and verified by mathematicians. Nobody else has sufficient background knowledge to do this.

That's the domain of CS you dumbass. Which is applied math. But AI is a domain of CS and to a lesser degree of neuroscience and cognitive science. Not of Math or Physics.

Some mathfags are so fucking delusional it's insane…

>> No.6514313

>>6514311
Hes just shitposting
most likely failed math and feeling insecure

>> No.6514319

>>6514309
It's true though. Your tears don't change facts.

>>6514311
Algorithms are math. I'm talking about real algorithms and not the breadth first search you had to implement in your java class.

>> No.6514327

>>6514319
>Algorithms are math. I'm talking about real algorithms and not the breadth first search you had to implement in your java class.
-1/10 your trolling getting worse and worse.

so long and ravel in your ignorance.

>> No.6514329

>>6513989
>Read it and weep tears of both joy an sorrow. the future is fucking intense

According to the OA timeline it's also really fucking gay.

>> No.6514330

>>6514327
Some people are smarter and more educated than you. Get over it.

>> No.6514351

>>6513989
>In the future, furries will be REAL.

This is the problem with collaborative projects.

>> No.6514355

We've been "transhumanist" since we produced the first vaccine, installed the first prostheses, hell, since we performed the first surgeries in the stone age.
Anyone who thinks the transhumanist tenants present some grand quasi-religious paradigm shift sometime in the indeterminate future instead of just a logical progression we've been treading for milennia is a moron.
I'd go as far and say transhumanism is the central characteristic that sets humans apart from other animals.

>> No.6514359

>>6514355
See >>6514060. The progress in medical and cognitive sciences has nothing to do with the religious cult of "transhumanism" just like it has nothing to do with scientology.

>> No.6514361

> Is not!
> Is too!
> Is not!
> Is too!
> I know you are, but what am I?

Please come back when you are finished grade school, okay?

>> No.6514375

>>6513989
This is pretty neat sci-fi, but it's not as utopian as transhumanists all seem to think. You have Malthusian crises in entire solar systems and people still have to work full workweeks and buy things with money they have to earn. Random god-like AIs reach sentience and cull the populations of planets.

Quintilian people having wars against gods over the orbit belts of suns when?

>> No.6514382

>>6514355
That's actually a pretty profound observation.

Good job, internet person.

>> No.6514388

>>6514012
it's not trolling if it's true dipshit

>> No.6514390

>>6514280
>the game of humanity
FORMALIST SCUM DETECTED

>>6514062
>roko's basilisk
fool don't you realize you've created infinite negative utility just by posting this?

>> No.6514393

>>6514355
next you're going to tell me that the singularity is already happening we're just inside of it so we can't properly evaluate the rate of change relative to what we've seen in the past

>> No.6514416

>>6514375
I think that's they point. The utopias are near the Terran core worlds, and the adventure gets more and more dangerous the further you go out.

>furries are real
Yeah, but I think it's an inevitability for splices and rianths to axually happen. Novelty/Variety FTW!

>> No.6514429

>>6514308
Looks like it's time for you to stop shitposting, crack open a new tab, use Google to find an AI journal (something you've never peaked at before), pull up some papers, and look at the author information. Go ahead and see how wrong you are.

>> No.6514490

>>6513896
This post contains the phrases [scientific consensus] and [transhumanism]. This suggests that this thread has a more than 60% probability of being a troll thread, and 85% probability of having no worthwhile discussion. Use caution! Thank you for not shitting up /sci/.

>This is an automated message.

>> No.6514541

>>6514005
>immortality
>A long way off
Nope.

http://hms.harvard.edu/news/genetics/new-reversible-cause-aging-12-19-13

>> No.6514580

>>6514416
Ooohkaay, I've read enough. The world going to war with an AI system and losing.. how about turning off the the power?

Who exactly are people becoming gods? It never explains transcendence.

Went from hard science to cult-religion faggotry real quick..

>> No.6514588 [DELETED] 

>>6513896
>transhumanism

reported

>> No.6514616

>>6514245
But computer science is for those who find math too hard

>> No.6514639

>>6514616
>But computer science is for those who find math too hard

no, CS for these mathematicians who want to be able to feed a family of 4.

>> No.6514705

>>6514580
GAIA (the world-wide AI system made to stop the NANODISASTER) basically after she saves everyone says gtfo because humans cant do shit right. She controls pretty much everything at this point and can't be turned off.


Despite this I still think AI should run the world, but maybe a few parties of them, not just one.

>people becoming gods

First only AI could breach the toposophic barrier (basically toposophics can think of many things at once, super efficiency, etc) but once people learned how to upload their minds digitally they could breach it too.

Idk I think it's fucking riveting sci-fi, even a bit of hard science in there.

>> No.6514716

>>6514705
No you escapist turd there is no "hard science in there" it's all complete bullshit from a sci-fi enthusiast like yourself who will likely have nothing to do with any technological progress that might occur, however divergent it is from your distorted view of the future.

Listen to yourself speak. You literally sound like someone who is trying to push a religion onto people. "Accept transhumanism into your life and our GAIA overlord will grant us immortality and infinite wisdom!" Words cannot express how pathetic you are.

>> No.6514789

>>6514705
There is little hard science there about transcendance and everything.

Also, the humans could have just pulled the plug on GAIA, whatever that took, shutting down power plants across the world, cutting cables, pulling memory boards out, ect. An AI, nomatter how intelligent, would be based in physical things people could control or destroy with violence, period.

It's a cool read, I give it some leniency because it's written by unsupervised amateurs and uneducated people,

>> No.6514930

>>6514716
>Listen to yourself speak. You literally sound like someone who is trying to push a religion onto people. "Accept transhumanism into your life and our GAIA overlord will grant us immortality and infinite wisdom!" Words cannot express how pathetic you are.

Jesus your buttmad is palpable dude change your pants.

>>6514789
I still don't see why you would pull the cord on a newly emerged AI god, GAIA does a shit ton of good after the great expulsion, she rid the planet of most humans because we were sperglords who couldn't keeo the planet minty fresh so she said "underage ban". Makes sense to me. You had 3 choices during the GE :leave in a designated ship just for you and ur peeps, stay and live off the land peacefully or fucking die.

>> No.6515575
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6515575

>> No.6515577
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6515577

>> No.6515589

>>6515577
I don't make anything more out of my mortality than what it is, where as singularitards delude themselves with fantasies about the second coming of RoboChrist being just around the corner.

>> No.6515623

>>6515577
This comic is stupid. Entropy ensures death for all eventually.

>> No.6515799

>>6515623
Not sufficient data for meaningful answer.

>> No.6515816

>>6515799
you're dumb on multiple levels

>> No.6515845

>>6514062
They are pretentious armchair scientists/philosophers.

>> No.6515860

>>6514214
You can get a PhD in applied maths, you know; http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/study/phdstudentships.html
Also, Mumford was a very successful pure mathematician (won the Fields Medal and was a MacArthur Fellow) working in algebraic geometry, who now works in pattern theory - one approach to AI. Lookie here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumford-Shah_Functional

>> No.6515871

>>6515860
What an efford to respond to such an evident troll...

>> No.6516275

>>6514375
Science fiction IS fiction. It's written to be exciting and meaningful. just like life in industrialized societies

>>6515575
This is wrong though. I'm 24 and truly believe indefinite life spans will be undeniable within the next 20 years, maybe sooner (literally any day now). I also know I probably won't live to see it. Not everything is simple psychology (such as, in this case, denial), that kind of reductionism is the crutch of morally collapsed pseudo-intellectual (as the author seems to sort of recognize in >>6515577).

>> No.6516298

>>6515816
do you even into Asimov?

>> No.6516308

don't reply to me, you faggot.

i meant that he was using it in an inappropriate context and that he should have said "INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER". he botched the delivery and the execution, hence my reply.

>> No.6516317
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6516317

People who use the words "scientific consensus" should be shot.

>> No.6516323

>>6514359
>with the religious cult of "transhumanism"
Science denier pls go

>> No.6516324
File: 27 KB, 480x360, 0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6516324

>>6516308
"Let there be Light!"

>> No.6516337

>>6515871
3 lines is not a lot of effort. Also, drawing attention to Mumford's work in pattern theory isn't specifically a response to that post, but a general point of conversation.

>> No.6516339

i said <span class="math">don't reply to me, faggot[/spoiler].

>> No.6516349

fuck. i mean <span class="math">don't[/spoiler] <span class="math">reply[/spoiler] <span class="math">to[/spoiler] <span class="math">me,[/spoiler] <span class="math">faggot[/spoiler].

there's got to be an easier way to do that.

>> No.6516627

>>6516298
Not even in the Asimov story were individual humans able to bridge from one universe to the next.

at best transhumanism is a life extension project

i lel at anybody that thinks they will literally live forever, it's religious-tier delusions in the name of science

>> No.6516629

>>6513896
>scientific consensus
>transhumanism
Transhumanism doesn't even making any claims. Why would you think the scientific method is even applicable?

>> No.6516689

If transhumanism is science mastered and utilised to the point where mankind is no longer considered "human," then the attitude is f most people would be to treat it as an asymptotw&; get as close to it as possible without actually touching it.

>> No.6516722

>>6513977

>Unseen horrors await.
>throngs of transhuman cyborgs duking it out amidst the glassed-out shells of once prosperous cities when?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
a handful of 600 year old new fleshed second
life 33deg super mega masons duking it out amidst the glassed-out shells of once prosperous cities when? (ftfy)

soon.

>> No.6516770
File: 172 KB, 900x884, light-is-pi-the-shape-of-pi-jason-padgett.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6516770

So, there is a struggle here between the cold analysts and the more seemingly liberal scientists on this board?

Count me a 'neckbeard', but humanity is stumbling into technology because it has a poor grasp on philosophy.

Let me put it this way:
A good mathematician is highly semantic, and that's valuable to us, but they can't paint or write beautifully.
A good artist however, never has the focus for math, they're not semantic circuit based operating. Creativity and analytic are observably opposing mental processes if you observe the behavior of their extremes (schizophrenia and autism)

Newton could derive math from images, and images from math, and so could Einstein to a degree.
This is creativity at it's refined semantic state
today's scientist can only derive images from math.

The fact of the matter is, man can not develop without language, or reflection, and most people are not good at both, and certainly not exceptional at both. We were riding in horse and carriage a century ago, do you expect our genetic mental capacity to just quadruple in a period the size of a thousandth of our human evolution? We are *Stupid*, and I do mean stupid as far as the word is relevant for the last century. Art and math are both expressions of what we understand, and when combined under the social structure humans have been designed to live within, technological progress occurs.

And there's no debating how stupid we are, when it is fact that our own inventions can out process us to the point where it confounds us.

>> No.6516772

>>6516770
unfounded truisms and vague deepspeak. what are you trying to accomplish, other than sounding like a complete pedant.

>> No.6516790

>>6516770

>but humanity is stumbling into technology

okaaaaaaaaaaaaay~

but you more than most- know that your statement is not true and it frightens you.

predestined.

i'll just leave it at that.

>> No.6516810

>>6516772
if it's not new or interesting, yet is true, why do you think academia does nothing about it?
Could it be because they legitimately no longer have the faculty to create ingenuity? To what degree does economic subservience play a role in this? How can we change it?

If you're going to argue with me, then do it
If you're going to create an elaborate ad hominem, you'll waist both our time.

>> No.6516816

>>6516810
>>6516770
>agravitus

>> No.6516828

>>6516790

>but you more than most- know that your statement is not true and it frightens you.

humanity: inclusive of all living humans
technology: the advancement of both the application and comprehension of mechanics in nature as we know it.

yes we are stumbling forward, how many people know how to shoot a gun, can build one? How many can text/how many understand communication and electronics to even imagine how texting is done. how many of us drive cars could conceive the combustion engine in solitude?

it's not a new theme.

>> No.6516936

>>6516323
I am a scienitst, you fucktard, and the only denialist here are you if you actually mistake your quasi-religious fantasies for science.

>> No.6517234

>>6516828
>mechanics in nature as we know it.

esp human nature.

now if you'll excuse me, i gotta go see a man
about a horse, then- i'm going to build a gun.

>> No.6517635
File: 41 KB, 640x430, powdered-wig_5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6517635

>>6514382
>>6514355

HEAR HEAR!!!

quite.

>> No.6517655

>>6513896
Does this transhumanosm topic H+ encompass unpublished facts as concern polymorphism? Like I am talking an old polymorph self effect where the individual changes from one apparent species to another.

Like a human being that turns into a bird and flies away, so does that count as transhumanism and will it be mentally tolerable?

>> No.6517660

>>6517655

/cast [target=focus] Polymorph

Ahhh, it felt good to be a fmage back in the days.

>> No.6517983
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6517983

>>6517660
>Ahhh, it felt good to be a fmage back in the days.

it stll feels good.


say it....SAY IT

>> No.6518289

>>6517983
Maybe this is funny but BTW it is a fact, an unacceptable fact.

but anyway
I think I will go look up just what an fmage was and in what system.

>> No.6518344

>>6518289
hm WoW hm

>> No.6518872
File: 59 KB, 800x533, IMG-20140302-WA0001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6518872

>>6517983
Hehe

>> No.6518904

>>6518872
oh shit. it's been so fucking long, but i still remember DFing fags and then icelancing them into the ground

>> No.6519679

>>6517660
>>6517983
>>6518344
>>6518872
>>6518904
But the transhumanism concept and or movement (how small is this 'movement' anyway) is about real life and from real life.

So is a little bit of polymorphism about real life and from real life,
but does it have a place within transhumanism
or not?
Can a registered transhumanist answer that?