/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.6504111]

Why do some classrooms still use chalkboards when whiteboards are better in nearly every way?

>easier to read
>less expensive
>less messy

The only thing chalkboards have for them is that chalk is more aesthetic, but that shouldn't be the primary concern in education.

[Anonymous No.6504117]

I personally cant stand chalkboards in general. The sound they produce during writing, as well as the tell-tale dust trail that resides after erasing are rather bothersome in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.6504120]

>>6504117
>The sound they produce during writing
I forgot about that. Yea, that's terrible too.

[Anonymous No.6504121]

>>6504111
>>easier to read

I doubt it. Chalk leaves a lot thicker line. And it's pure white on black/green/slate which means it stands out. Red on white or blue on white is HORRIBLE.

>>less expensive

Are you trolling or are you just clueless? Chalk is pennies a piece and markers are dollars a piece and they run out quicker too.

And not to mention the price of whiteboards… several times more expensive than chalkboards (just judging by 5"x3" boards that I was looking to buy).

>>less messy

Maybe so but you can get a chalk-holder and your hands will always be clean.

Another issue with markers is ghosting. It's hard to completely erase them after time.

[Anonymous No.6504123]

I hate chalkboards too, and I'm a mathfag.

That said, chalkboards are easier to read than whiteboards from a long distance. Just whiteboards are clearer from close by. So if you're like in a huge auditorium a chalkboard is better and if you're in a normal sized classroom then a whiteboard is better.

I really hate using chalkboards too.

[Anonymous No.6504125]

marker fumes cause cancer

[Anonymous No.6504130]

Because the picture you posted looks absolutely terrible. Chalkboards are much more satisfying. My math department has white boards everywhere while the physics department has chalkboards everywhere. Guess where the better students study.

[Anonymous No.6504133]

>>6504121
I'm not OP, but I haven't seen any 8x4 chalk boards for under 350 bux. White boards on the other hand can go down to 100 bux for the same size.

[Anonymous No.6504137]

I hear that one can instantly replace chalkboards with whiteboards for free.

[Anonymous No.6504138]

>>6504130
>better students care about looks more than efficiency.

[Anonymous No.6504140]

>>6504133
used ones on ebay. tons of cheap ones.

[Anonymous No.6504143]

Yuck, whiteboards are such shit. The markers write nicely for about a week before they get horribly faint. Also impossible to erase cleanly without a fucking spray bottle.

Chalkboards are so old school that I can't imagine math without them. Also, all of the pros should go to chalkboards ffs. White on black, chalk is dirt cheap, and whiteboards are never neat unless you just cleaned them.

[Anonymous No.6504149]

>>6504130
>Guess where the better students study.
>Better meaning the ones who chose an easier major.

My university is the opposite. Engineering, compsci, and physics departments all have whiteboards (as well as the fancy modern library with study rooms); while the mathematics department is stuck with chalkboards. No one actually studies in the mathematics building because everything in the building is a terrible eyesore.

[Anonymous No.6504153]

>>6504111
easier to clean
cheaper

[Anonymous No.6504155]

>>6504143
Markers come in a fuckload of colors. Chalk does too but dark colored chalk is pretty much invisible and all the light colored chalks look indistinguishable. Also, don't pretend chalkboards are fucking clean after wiping them with an eraser, there's always tons of cloudy shit. Even when you clean them with a spray bottle they stay dirty.

It's true chalkboards have been around forever, but that doesn't make them good.

[Anonymous No.6504159]

>>6504140
That actually sounds plausible. I imagine there are lots of people out there desperate to get rid of old chalkboards as they upgrade to superior whiteboards. Of course, that only affects used boards, not new ones.

[Anonymous No.6504193]

>>6504155

Don't get me started on light markers, those are unreadable from the very first time you use them. I'm not saying chalk erasers give you a clean sweep, but it's a lot better than the shitty, dark residue you get on whiteboards.

>inb4 white residue on chalk boards

You can literally still read most of what you erase from a whiteboard, horrible technology.

[Anonymous No.6504197]

chalkboards, whiteboards… who gives a shit.

the thing that irks me the most are profs that use overhead projectors.

i took a stats course this past semester, the prof used an overhead projector with notes he must have written decades ago. marker was barely readable now. and all of his notes were on a giant fucking roll of film that he'd always have to "rewind" like it's a fucking VHS tape.

if you're teaching math and you don't use blackboard, fuck you!

It's ok to show overheads/computer slides to summarize past lecture or the lecture you just finished but for fucks sake, WORK THE PROOFS ON THE BOARD! Going over them through overheads or powerpoint is criminal.

[Anonymous No.6504201]

>>6504111
Maybe we should just use huge touchscreens to do maths on.

[Anonymous No.6504207]

I can't stand using either, mostly because my writing becomes an illegible mess when I have to predominantly use my arm instead of my wrist or fingers. Thankfully I don't have to teach using them, and when I do tutor people it's always with a tablet touchscreen or a piece of paper.

>mfw you encounter the point when your whiteboard marker starts to run out of ink

[Anonymous No.6504222]

>>6504207
>I have to predominantly use my arm instead of my wrist or fingers.
I do the same thing, but this is supposedly bad form. You're supposed to write with your girdles. Apparently it's supposed to reduce fatigue and increase quality once you get used to it. Also other bone health related issues.

[Anonymous No.6504225]

>>6504197
>WORK THE PROOFS ON THE BOARD! Going over them through overheads or powerpoint is criminal.
I've heard other people complain about this but I've never understood why it's an issue. I mean I've seen some proofs worked out in powerpoint that are very clear. Each slide proceeds to the next step and individual slides are able to emphasize stuff with annotations that won't stay around on the board to clutter stuff.

[Anonymous No.6504242]

>>6504222
>this is supposedly bad form
Given that I forced myself to write in block letters a few years ago in order to make my writing legible for other people, and this is as neat as I've gotten it in casual use, I don't even give a fuck.

Now imagine how bad my writing must be on a chalkboard or whiteboard where I have even less writing dexterity.

[Anonymous No.6504246]

>>6504242
you need to improve your implication arrows

[Anonymous No.6504387]

>>6504111
You are missing the fact it not that simple. There are different types of boards made with different quality levels of manufacturing.

While I can't deny chalkboards simply work and are cheaper overall, and will always have a place in our world.

I like white boards more as they are
easier to read when using multiple colors, which is very helpful for more complex stuff. (I realize they make color calk, but I haven't seen good color chalk, so it back to quality issues)
they make a far less painful sound
and don't carry the same risk of silicosis chalk does

Also if you use nicely fused high silicate glass (most cheap white boards you see just use a thin glass powder coating, rather then fused glass sheet) with a white backdrop (fused glass to porcelain backing is amazing) it works even better then a regular white board as it doesn't leave ghost marks and even if it does you can grind them out with some very mild buffing and still have enough glass thickness to last centuries. Put a light in the edges and have some cheap back-lighting, through in black lights and florescent agents and you can make cool rave murals, or you know have more axises of freedom to use when dealing with a stubborn problem.

Still have mixed feelings about "smart boards" they have great potential, but people don't use them properly. Plus the ones I have seen are glitchy as all get out and I don't want cool graphics to over shadow real learning.

[Anonymous No.6504404]

>whiteboards

[Anonymous No.6504422]

>>6504225
>I've heard other people complain about this but I've never understood why it's an issue. I mean I've seen some proofs worked out in powerpoint that are very clear. Each slide proceeds to the next step and individual slides are able to emphasize stuff with annotations that won't stay around on the board to clutter stuff.

There's something special about being able to follow another human go through steps. Our mirror neurons help us learn a lot easier. When you follow someone do it step by step, you can picture yourself doing the same thing. When you just follow something off some slides, professors go through it quickly and you miss the steps.

Nothing beats step by steps instruction. Even that Khan does it.

[Anonymous No.6504423]

>>6504404

That fucking show made me feel dumb for not writing on glass with cool lights and black metal holder things on wheels.

Then I tried writing on my window. It sucks. If something is going on behind it, it's distracting.

[Anonymous No.6504427]

whiteboards inevitably have their coating break down after a couple years and then you can't erase without busting out ethanol

[Anonymous No.6504428]

>>6504246
>

[Anonymous No.6504614]

>>6504423
>If something is going on behind it, it's distracting.
ha ha ha

[Anonymous No.6504645]

>>6504111
nostalgia

[Anonymous No.6504781]

>>6504225
I think PowerPoint is great for teaching. So much faster! The prof can cover a lot more ground when freed from writing.

I think people find it easier to follow writing because it's so much slower.

[Anonymous No.6504783]

Walk into room with whiteboard. 12 pens in tray. Try them all. None of them work.

[Anonymous No.6504796]

>>6504783

I buy my own and just keep 'em in my pack.

[Anonymous No.6504804]

>>6504781
The complaint that the engineering department has at my school is that when professors use powerpoints (almost all of them), what happens is that students sleep through class and don't pay attention.

[Anonymous No.6504814]

The biggest pro for whiteboards is that you can use different colors to keep similar terms grouped together

[Anonymous No.6504841]

>>6504111
I have a chalkboard at home.

>classy
>feel like a real professor
>love the sound of the chalk
>I learned that way, thats why I still use it

I also love writing on paper, hate using powerpoint, print everything to correct (never make corrections on the files) and use excel like a hacker (keyboard only, no mouse)

And all my students say I am the fucking best.

[Anonymous No.6504844]

>>6504111
>kids these days

[Anonymous No.6504846]

>>6504111

[Anonymous No.6504877]

>>6504783
Walk into room with chalkboard. 12 pieces of chalk in the tray. All of them shorter than a half inch.

[Anonymous No.6504887]

>>6504111
chalk stands out better. Also the light only makes it look clearer, whereas a whiteboard reflects too much light. Chalkboards is just visually better, though a smart board would be best. Some classrooms have integrated smart boards with electronics so that you can zoom in.

[Anonymous No.6504890]

>>6504387
This is a lot of very good information. Thanks anon.

About smart boards, I have had some good experiences with them and some poor ones. It seems to come down to how familiar and comfortable the lecturer is with them.

Some math profs that have used them are able to just write proofs in multiple colors while making lots of pages and scrolling up and down the material seamlessly (even being able to provide the notes as a powerpoint online so that students worry about paying attention and understanding instead of about copying notes). On the other side of the spectrum I've seen lecturers struggle with even just writing without accidentally erasing, some even forgo almost all of the smart board's capabilities and just use it for powerpoints because they struggle with it.

I feel like it may just be unintuitive to some people but intuitive to others. I wonder if lecturers are given any sort of manual or explanation about how these technologies work or if they're just assigned a room that uses one and expected to "figure it out".

[Anonymous No.6504918]

>>6504890
> I wonder if lecturers are given any sort of manual or explanation about how these technologies work or if they're just assigned a room that uses one and expected to "figure it out".

I never saw a smartboard in college but I remember that at high school this is actually how it happened. What's extra hilarious was that it was often given out to department heads i.e. many of the oldest teachers i.e. what in the sweet fuck are you doing.

[Anonymous No.6504927]

Romance

[Anonymous No.6504942]

chalk/white doesn't matter – what matters is who is writing on it

[Anonymous No.6504949]

>>6504918
Smartboards weren't around when I was in highschool.

[Anonymous No.6504971]

Chalkboards are more environmentally friendly. Dry erase markers use petroleum byproducts generally.

[Anonymous No.6504997]

>>6504942
Obviously, this is hot, but I always get the feeling that a 50 year old professor is somehow involved here

[Anonymous No.6505002]

>>6504949
graduated highschool in '08. I think we were early adopters. Our school actually had decent funding and it all got squandered on bullshit like that. We had a huge beautiful building, a few computer labs, fucking smartboards. Fucking headsets that dropped from the ceilings in language classrooms, enrollment in both AP and IB pushed heavily on the students ...and grad rates/test scores so shitty we nearly had the government restaff the administration.

[Anonymous No.6505003]

>>6504997
it's just diff eq right?

[Anonymous No.6505027]

>>6505003
yes

[Anonymous No.6505073]

>>6504111
Because its easier to produce dotted lines on blackboards then it is on white boards.

[Anonymous No.6505075]

Why aren't you using tablets connected to beamers like proper human beings?

[Anonymous No.6505103]

>>6504841
>classy

[Anonymous No.6505119]

The physics department at my school was getting a new board and they asked them if they wanted a whiteboard or a blackboard. They said blackboard.

But seriously. A blackboard doesn't get writing stuck on it if you leave it too long. The materials are cheaper and can literally be made in a sink. Both boards produce a fine powder, but the blackboard's is healthy and the whiteboard's is an unidentified plastic. Plus it's easier to write big on a blackboard than a whiteboard when you have a big class. Multicolor chalk shows up better on a blackboard than a whiteboard. The list goes on.

What I look forwards to are those computer walls that you can write on. Or better still, the see-through ones you always see in CSI. Right now, however, the technology simply hasn't caught up. MAYBE use a whiteboard in your home or office so you don't have to deal with chalk all over your belongings, but for a classroom it's blackboard by a mile.

[Anonymous No.6505123]

Poor countries use chalkboards.

[Anonymous No.6505127]

ask Leonard susskind how he feels about white board

[Anonymous No.6505156]

>>6504781
>I think people find it easier to follow writing because it's so much slower
It also is much easier to follow the professor's sequence of thinking versus it being pre-written.

[Anonymous No.6505167]

You can't do this on a whiteboard.

[Anonymous No.6505168]

>>6505127
>ask Leonard susskind how he feels about white board

tell us

[Anonymous No.6505169]

>>6505167
You can't do this on a whiteboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xODkb-i-t2M

[Anonymous No.6505225]

>>6504890
Thanks.
I really do think it comes down to knowing what you got and how to use it. I know two of the smart board teacher complained they had no idea how to use it, and one didn't even know it was being installed till they walked in and saw it. Worse yet is they seem to go to the oldest teachers, but typically they are also the least tech skilled ones which just makes more problems.

The big thing I wanted people to take away is that white boards only really leave markings if you get the cheap ones (which everyone does, I mean most office stores don't even carry high quality white boards, which in fairness is sensible given how expensive and heavy they are, plus if you buy the nice ones you might not come back to buy a replacement), as the nice ones are really nice and don't leave markings. And even if it does they are ways like alcohol wipes or in worst case Bon Ami that clean it up real nice.
(although schools can be really messed up, seen a person in big trouble with "alcohol" wipes, like people would be getting drunk of those)

[Anonymous No.6505260]

>>6504111
I have never been in a classroom where a chalkboard was being used

[Anonymous No.6505283]

>>6504387
The school district I grew up in had large smart boards in every classroom. Each was basically a white projector screen that could sense touch. The projector was connected to the teacher's computer so that the image on the board would act like a touchscreen monitor. The boards also came with a note taking program that was basically a mix between power point, word, excel, and paint. Smart boards are far more efficient, versatile, and practical.

[Anonymous No.6505287]

>>6504890
That is why it is the teachers are supposed to go through orientation training for smart boards

[Anonymous No.6505299]

>>6504111
whiteboards fucking suck when the pen is used up

[Anonymous No.6505316]

>>6505283
Yes, I can envision that happening, but you had teachers that likely read the manual or had training. I had the worst personal experience with them, not to say they are bad, just that it made me skeptical for obvious reasons. My school was one of the first schools to switch, but because of poor planning and nobody knowing how to use them it was hell. The project was canceled half way through the year and they reinstalled the black boards, except for one new teacher who made a fuss to keep theirs as they were using it with great results from what I heard. So good in fact that three years later I heard they reinstalled smart boards with much better results.

Better tools help improve things, but only if you have good teachers to start with.

[Anonymous No.6505390]

>>6504942
Why is she wearing two pairs of underwear?

[Anonymous No.6505397]

I had no idea chalkboards were still being made, I assumed all the ones left just haven't been replaced yet. I prefer whiteboards by miles. Mostly because I don't like the chalk dust.

[Anonymous No.6505403]

>>6505299
Blackboards fucking suck when you're out of chalk

[Anonymous No.6505412]

>>6505403
>Blackboards fucking suck when you're out of chalk

You can make your own chalk for few pennies per piece. It's so easy that kids do it so they can draw on sidewalks.

Can you make your own dry erase markers?

[Anonymous No.6505418]

>>6504846
it makes me feel so itchy whenever there's shit that aren't completely erased

i swear proffesors do this on purpose

[Anonymous No.6505436]

>>6505412
This is /sci/, of course we can.

160 part from PVA
480 part ethanol
70 part pigment (like carbon black)
100 part thinning agent
Sponge for felt tip
small plastic bottle for fluid containment vessel

Of course calibrating it to the right viscosity and felt pore size it a bit of work, but that is just an excuse to get a better understanding of fluid mechanics with suspension additives.

It is a lot more fun to make then simply powder pressing calcite into little sticks.

But smart board are even better with the electrical and software skills you learn making your own. However making the LED from dirt adds a lot of steps, so was forced to give up and bought some. Refining silica for backyard sand to make the silicon substrate is just too expensive.

[Anonymous No.6505456]

>>6504125

Probably an increase of such a ngligible amount - Inhaling chalk dust can irritate the respiratory tracts and lungs - what of it?

[Anonymous No.6505458]

>>6504111

I think we should go back to large wax tablets, or maybe drawing lines in a sandpit at the bottom of the lecture hall would be better?

[Anonymous No.6505482]

>>6505436
>Of course calibrating it to the right viscosity and felt pore size it a bit of work, but that is just an excuse to get a better understanding of fluid mechanics with suspension additives.

go make one,

[Anonymous No.6505511]

>>6505390
>wearing two pairs of underwear?
anti-cameltoe

[Anonymous No.6505515]

>>6504877
Yes, but they still work! I've used chalk chips flat on the board.

Some moron always leaves the cap off the dry-erase pen. Sure, you can carry around a dry erase pen, but that's a pain.

[Anonymous No.6505517]

>>6504997
that just makes it hotter.

[Anonymous No.6505520]

>>6505002
LOL. Great story. Clearly, the solution is to spend even more.

[Anonymous No.6505571]

>>6505515
>I've used chalk chips flat on the board.
This is not something to be proud of. No one enjoys doing this. It's like saying you've wiped your ass with the toilet roll.

>Sure, you can carry around a dry erase pen, but that's a pain.
It's no different than carrying around a chalkholder or even a normal writing utensil.

[Anonymous No.6505982]

how about we actually advance the classroom and further the popularity of smartboards and things of the like

[Medical_Physicist !!ST92PtcX00D No.6506048]

The click and scraping sound of chalk on a blackboard makes me smarter. I can't explain it, but I genuinely do work better on a chalkboard.

[Anonymous No.6506058]

I'm okay with both. I've had good experiences with chalk and good experiences with dry erase. I've also had bad experiences with both. Dry erase is really good if they don't have shitty markers. My prof had nice markers with a refill station so they were always bold. Chalk is good if the board is clean. If it isn't, then it sucks. Chalk also makes nice sounds.

[Anonymous No.6506114]

>>6504846
algebraic geometry or homotopy theory? what is this exactly?

[Anonymous No.6506126]

i use carbon/clay mixture with white chalkboard at home

am i a whiteboard wannabe?

[Anonymous No.6506135]

>>6505982
> advance
>smartboards


Pick one and only one.

[Anonymous No.6506147]

>>6504111
>Whiteboards
>cheaper
>Implying

Chalkboards are:
- Cheaper (it's painted wood for fuck's sake - or a matte black surface if you wanna get fancy with those scrolling flexible ones)
- Writing can be left on for 5 seconds or 5 weeks and will come off just as easily
- Don't need liquid to clean the board. Every lecturer I have seems to use pens that just smudge everywhere or don't erase at all unless you use board cleaning spray from a bottle.
- Chalk doesn't inexplicably dry up after 5 minutes of use, only to come back to life after being left a while
- Chalk doesn't dry out
- The quality of chalk doesn't matter, chalk is fucking chalk, pens on the other hand can be either expensive, or shit.
- Matte surface = no glare.

I find blackboards easier to read too. The contrast is greater. Whiteboards need to be lit brighter or they're just dull and annoying to read, even then the pen doesn't really stand out as well. You also get glare from lights and windows as your picture illustrates.

Only downsides to chalk are dust, holding the chalk being fiddly, and getting it all over your fingers.

[Anonymous No.6506150]

>>6504133
>but I haven't seen any 8x4 chalk boards for under 350 bux. White boards on the other hand can go down to 100 bux for the same size.

That's because everyone and their mother is buying whiteboards.

Offices aren't gonna buy chalkboards, offices do what looks the most progressive and fancy, not what the best solution is. Everyone wants to look modern which means buying whiteboards.

[Anonymous No.6506156]

>>6504387
>Still have mixed feelings about "smart boards"

Pointless gimmick just like whiteboards.

You just need something you can fucking write on. That's all.

They're fancy gadgets used to distract people from the fact that teachers are shit. "Look, we're throwing money at education! Look how much we care!" instead of investing actual time and money into training better teachers.

[Anonymous No.6506162]

>>6504942
> <span class="math">e^{-\ln(}[/spoiler]

>Not simplifying that in your head.

qt girl pls.

[Anonymous No.6506166]

>>6505119
>Multicolor chalk shows up better on a blackboard than a whiteboard

This is the only thing you said that's not true.

They're either so far from white that you can't really read them, or so close to white as to be indistinguishable from a distance.

Still think blackboards are better though.

[Anonymous No.6506170]

>>6506147

amen

[Anonymous No.6506174]

>>6505225
>The big thing I wanted people to take away is that white boards only really leave markings if you get the cheap ones

My physics department either paid to get their scrolling soft boards half converted to whiteboards, or just bought some that were half whiteboard / half black board.

The whiteboards don't erase without some sort of solvent. They just smudge. This lead to dumb lecturers spraying, erasing, then attempting to write on the wet board and being all "this pen doesn't work, hmm" and repeating through 3 or 4 pens.

[Anonymous No.6506239]

What kind of chalk? Dustless vs regular? Big fat chalk or standard?

I say regular is better for writing than dustless. Also, I've come to like the big fat chalk. I also prefer traditional real slate to green or brown boards.

[Anonymous No.6506242]

>>6506156
I agree. Most of my high school classes had smart boards, and the teachers used them as projectors. Overly complicated, overpriced projectors. They just wrote on the whiteboard next to it.

[Anonymous No.6506243]

We can go at it all day, it is largely opinion here. High quality board setup with competent user will beat the other kind hands down unless both are maxed out for a better head to head comparison. In which case performance goals matter which are largely dictated by application.

For example
>>6506147
Are we limiting it to the original Blackboards which must be mined and carved by hand from Cornwall in England as they were originally done in the mainstream beginning in the sixteenth century? Or are we allowing the newer very high quality blackboards made of green porcelain? Or just cheaply painted on green porcelain powder coating?

>>6506174
A good setup doesn't need solvent, it can wipe clean even after 12 days (which I have done many times). Every few months it is nice to wipe with alcohol, but really that is just because we want it to look brand new, could go years without it and still work fine. Part of it is the solid glass doesn't have any pore for ink to sink into and it is non reactive so it doesn't bond to the board. The other half is the nice markers don't just deposit dye, but is formulated so it clumps together and fall off rather then smear if you wait a few seconds before wiping.

The funny part of this is how similar the technology is in some ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteboards
Uses smooth glass coated white porcelain so the ink can rest on it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard
Uses rough green porcelain so the chalk can rub off and rest on it

I would think it wouldn't be too hard to make some kind of unholy hybrid and get most of the benefits of both.

So what qualities do we want out of our board?

[Anonymous No.6506506]

>>6506150
Whiteboards are the best solution. Stop being a dusty hipster.

[Anonymous No.6506584]

>>6506243
>So what qualities do we want out of our board?

I want one that's magnetic so I can pin notes on it.

It should be huge (My ideas are no bigger than my workspace). Usually I work on a block of squared A3.

[Anonymous No.6506598]

>>6505123

ETH Zürich, where I study, one of the best technical unis in Europe and in one of the richest cities uses blackboards only..

[Anonymous No.6506601]

Whiteboards fucking suck big hairy asses. Markers always run out of ink and there is no way to tell if a marker is full, almost empty or completely empty (most teachers just leave the ones that are empty because usually they all are so you can't read shit).

But if you have a full marker it's basically the same as a chalkboard, I really don't care.

[Ted Kaczynski was right about (...) No.6506605]

Better on eyes
Easier to see text
Smoother to write on a blackboard

[Anonymous No.6506618]

>>6506150
nah the truly progressive and hip thing to do would be to use transparent whiteboards

pros for whiteboards are they aren't as messy

chalkboards are more badass in general though

[Anonymous No.6506634]

>>6506243
>Part of it is the solid glass doesn't have any pore for ink to sink into

I've never seen a whiteboard made from glass?

(Actually I have seen glassboards but they weren't whiteboards as such [no white coating on back/front, just seethrough to the wall behind] The maths department has some seminar rooms with big glass panels bolted to the wall with no border. They're kinda light blue/green in colour. I do admit they look fucking cool, but they're almost useless. The contrast isn't as high as a regular whiteboard and any lights that are on in the room or sunny day with light coming through the windows makes half the board completely illegible.)

[Anonymous No.6506651]

Most good unis/colleges use blackboards. All the shit schools use whiteboards because they think they're more modern, but they're ugly and hard to read from. Electronic whiteboards are even worse. They're so slow and unresponsive. Such a waste of money.

[Anonymous No.6506677]

Glare, unless you can block out every bit of sunlight and switch the artificial lights individually, it's damn near impossible to make a whiteboard not suffer from this.

[Anonymous No.6506799]

>>6506584
They make a variety of magnetic ones. Steel backed is the old way, but newer ones have magnetic glass, which I am not so familiar with.

Be warned I see many fully wall whiteboards come as rolls of what is basically wall paper, which wears down much faster then the remodeled glass boards (the big ones basically have to be build with you building, but they are cool).

Pic is the compromise of glass paneling whiteboard, so there is less remodeling thing full wall instillation, but you have those seam lines

Or you can get one of those sliding whiteboards, you can't see all of it at once, but it gives a large surface area.

>>6506634
They make thick enamel glass (usually on steel backing (like bathtubs) like the original ones, but it works so much better then the cheap stuff we have now) or full glass panels with porcelain backing or many other types. The thing is glass is a vague term that really refers to the lack of a crystal structure (although a mono crystal sapphire board would be awesome in so many ways), I mean we can make metal glass.

I have to agree I am not a fan of the transparent ones without some kind of backing to prevent distractions. As for glare, contrast, and many other problems they can adjust those with changes with the whiteboards and markers, but to really get rid of them you need to change the lighting. At which point I don't so much blame the whiteboard as I do the system as a whole. Lighting, temperature, noise, humidity and other things dramatically effect user experiences, yet people build each part separately then slap them together with mixed results. Proper integration counts for a lot. Like this picture shows a high quality whiteboard, but really bad lighting, the result is not the best setup.

[Anonymous No.6506818]

Smartboard master race reporting in

[Anonymous No.6506829]

Whiteboard markers run out of ink which sucks enormously since noone ever bother to refill them or get new ones.
Personally I like the look of chalk much more, especially when using coloured chalks.

[Anonymous No.6506832]

>>6504207
canadian tire money +1

[Anonymous No.6506877]

I had a few professors that used chalk instead of a whiteboard

The only reason they needed to give was that they preferred it. My organic professor with a really dry sense of humor said he "liked to do things old school".

This was before he pulled out his molecular model kit made of wood.

[Anonymous No.6506949]

Overall, chalkboards are better, but they sound they make when writing and on some shitty erasers is ear-piercing.

[Anonymous No.6507256]

>>6506147
>it's painted wood
Blackboard paint is a modern thing, just like whiteboard paint. Back in the day blackboards were made of slate. Either way, "painted wood" isn't necessarily cheap if you've ever bought any wooden product you would know this.

[Anonymous No.6507285]

>>6504846
jesus christ, those eraser marks.

[Anonymous No.6507298]

>>6506818
>Smartboard
>master race
Gimmicky pieces of shit. I haven't seen one since I left high school
Chalkboards suck btw

[Anonymous No.6507303]

Box of dry erase markers: $1.50
Box of blackboard chalk: $0.69

That's why.

[Anonymous No.6507308]

>>6507303
Dry erase markers
>Last a long time
>Lots of vibrant colors
>Can use them to pleasure girls
>Expensive things are always better that's why they cost more

Chalk
>Breaks
>Dust makes you look like a cokehead
>Colors suck and are not vibrant
>Chalk is for nerds and homosexuals

Worth the cash if you ask me

[Anonymous No.6507310]

>>6507308
>Colors suck and are not vibrant
>not vibrant

[Anonymous No.6507311]

>>6507310
Show me some shitty chalk with colors as nice as dry erase markers

[Anonymous No.6507318]

>>6507311
You do know what vibrant means right?
Normal yellow chalk is vibrant.

[Anonymous No.6507319]

>>6507318
Chalk is dull. Markers are vibrant and fabulous

[Anonymous No.6507321]

>>6507308
>Dry erase markers
>>Last a long time

Bullshit. And try leaving them uncapped overnight.

>>Lots of vibrant colors

Who cares when you can't see shit 10ft away.

>>Can use them to pleasure girls

I'll give you that.

>>Expensive things are always better that's why they cost more

Many times that's true. But not in this case.

[Anonymous No.6507331]

>>6506243
Well, we could also look at changing the technology altogether to some extent.
>Change the markers or chalk so that they could work on different surfaces.
>Change the color of the surface.
>etc..

I think maybe it would help to narrow down what we can and can't do with the technology as it currently is. Chalkboards are rough to some extent, right? That's what makes the chalk work? Would it keep markers from working on it, like would they be difficult or impossible to erase? I'm pretty sure you can't use chalk on a whiteboard, at worse it would just scratch it.

If we use glass as our surface then we could have a lit or color changing background. At the extremes it could even be an LCD screen capable of displaying images from a computer, I suppose this would be analogous to the professors that use a projector on a whiteboard and write on it (it's terrible, but it works kind of). Would it be possible to have a transparent chalk surface?

What about not worrying about the background altogether, just having a glass whiteboard pane and having a blacklight shining on the surface. Then we could use blacklight ink in the markers and they would stand out regardless of the surface (we wouldn't have to worry about too bright or too dark). I think it might be possible to do something similar with blacklight chalk, but I'm not sure if it actually helps with the problem of telling apart bright colors, though it would definitely help with dark colors being visible (blue chalk on a blackboard).

Would it work if the lights were actually just along one edge adjacent to the glass. Like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED-backlit_LCD_display

(cont.)

[Anonymous No.6507365]

>>6507331

I think several of the issues with chalk/markers in this thread really just boil down to how people use them and how people expect to use them.
>If you walk into a room with a shared whiteboard/chalkboard then you shouldn't expect it to have chalk/markers in the tray. The only reason there would be any markers is because they're dead and he only reason there would be any chalk is because it's a nub.
>If you use a shared chalkboard/whiteboard then you should clean it off when you're done.
>If you use a whiteboard then you should never touch it with your fingers, the oils are difficult to clean off the board and they cause the ink to write like shit. Similarly if you use a shared whiteboard then you should probably wipe it off from time to time with a towel and spray because people think it's okay to erase with your fingers like on blackboards.
>If you use any blackboard (shared or unshared) then you will probably have to wipe it down with a towel and spray from time to time because the background dust will keep accumulating and it will lose visibility and start to look terrible.
Then the obvious stuff.
>If you use a marker, put the cap back on when you're done.
>Carry backup markers just like you would carry backup chalk.
>Don't buy shitty markers.
>Don't buy sidewalk chalk.

Obviously though there are some deeper issues here. We can't expect normal people to just walk around with chalk and markers in case they run into a whiteboard/chalkboard. There's really no good way to carry chalk/markers. It would be good if you could tell how much ink a marker has left, it would be even better if you could just carry around one marker of each color and go back into your office to refill them. Similarly with chalk, it'd be good if you could always have a full length piece of chalk on hand, but unfortunately I'm not sure such a thing is possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd1-WFv0nb0

Chalk seems to have a long drying process as part of its manufacture.

[Anonymous No.6507392]

>>6507365
>then you will probably have to wipe it down with a towel and spray from time to time because the background dust will keep accumulating and it will lose visibility and start to look terrible.
This should be tattooed in every professor's eyelids

[Anonymous No.6507412]

>>6507392
When I was in highschool we had some niggers who cleaned the boards between classes.

[Anonymous No.6507532]

>>6506162
That's e^(integral of something) you idiot

[Anonymous No.6508255]

>>6507321
>try leaving them uncapped over night
Why would you do that?

[Anonymous No.6508260]

When will we have good but simple electronic boards? Not all the fancy stuff, just a simple touch screen with a paint-like program. Maybe with something to interact with 3d shapes

[Anonymous No.6508424]

>>6506162
Lrn2stepwise-solution