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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6459141 No.6459141[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

What is a "force"?

>> No.6459148

>>6459141
the rate of change of momentum.

>> No.6459151

exchange of gauge bosons

>> No.6459156

>>6459148
Thank you for your response.

May I ask, what is momentum? I appreciate the expenditure of your time.

>> No.6459161

>>6459156
A quantity of motion. Given by the product of a particle's mass and velocity.

>> No.6459164

>>6459161
>Given by the product of a particle's mass and velocity.

Wrong in any context other than high school physics.

>> No.6459166

>>6459164
classical mechanics is synonymous with high school physics?

>> No.6459170

>>6459164
It's true, A level was the last time I studied it. But I assume if OP is asking what a force is, that's about the right level.

If you'd care to elaborate I'd be interested to hear what you mean.

>> No.6459173

>>6459161
>>6459161
Yes, I anticipated that this problem of mine would be reduced to an understanding of motion, perceiving that force is about motion.

You suggest that motion can be quantified, so is it true then that motion is a quantity and not a quality? It would seem to me that motion is a quality and that speed is how we quantity motion, and that motion itself is not a quantity.

So is a force a quality or a quantity? Is a force a thing that puts other things on motion? Is a force an object or a quality that objects have? What is the essence of a force?

>> No.6459174

>>6459141
The right hand side of Newton's equation, following from the determinacy principle.

>> No.6459178

>>6459174
May I ask what the determinancy principle is?

>> No.6459179

>>6459156
its the conserved quantity of a system due to the homogeneity of space.

>> No.6459182

>>6459173
cont.

I do have an intuitive concept of what a "force" is, but upon reflection I see that my understanding of what a force is has a resemblance to a disembodied spirit, something that acts upon matter without being material itself.

This puzzling reflection is what had prompted my inquiry into the nature of forces.

>> No.6459186

>>6459178
The state of a mechanical system can be uniquely determined once you know the initial position and velocity, therefore in the classical setting, you only need to know the instantaneous acceleration a, which will be equal to some experimentally found function F. Therefore a = F. Mass comes after this.

>> No.6459191

>>6459182
>>6459173
basically its just a mathematical trick to keep track of some properties of a system. the force doesn't exist, its just a number we give an interaction to simplify the caclulations

>> No.6459192

>>6459182
cont.

I am also reminded of a remark that Leibniz, a man of surpassing intellect, made when he heard of Newton's gravitation: he said that the idea of objects acting upon each other over large distances, like the planets do according to Newton, amounted to "black magic".

>> No.6459196

>>6459191
See, this notion is a very troubling one to me, though I admit it is not one that I hadn't foreseen. If this assertion of yours is valid then what are we to do with the idea that science is about reality and that its theories conform to reality?

>> No.6459211

>>6459192
even newton knew his theory was not complete, but that it was the best approximation he could come up with. general relativity fixed the action over a distance thing.

>>6459196
science is about building models that are accurate enough for some purpose, not about finding some underlying truth. all the rules of physics could just be god moving things in the exact way to seem like newtons laws are correct and science wont care.

>> No.6459216

>>6459192
we don't see objects in everyday life acting "upon each other over large distances", so intuitively we don't expect objects beyond everyday life to do so either. but why should nature conform to our expectations? ("great men" make great mistakes)
>>6459196
newton's equations describe certain aspects of reality as we measure it, they don't "capture the essence of being".