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/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:17:15 2014 No.6413305 [DELETED]

[Reply] [Original]

Put a particle in a box. The box is at rest, so you know the exact position of its center. Shrink the box. The particle will remain in the box. The smaller the box becomes, the less movement is possible for the particle. In the end the box will perfectly fit the particle. The particle cannot move anymore and has therefore zero momentum. We then know the exact position and the exact momentum of the particle.

Did I just disproved Heisenburg's uncertainty principal?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:19:45 2014 No.6413308 Holy shit...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:20:46 2014 No.6413309 woah

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:21:45 2014 No.6413313 Damn...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:22:45 2014 No.6413317 Could it be...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:22:45 2014 No.6413319 >implying it wouldnt just quantum tunnel through the walls of the box

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:23:15 2014 No.6413321 >imaginary box >impossible box >imaginary particle >impossible particle

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:23:45 2014 No.6413320 :O

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:24:45 2014 No.6413322 Good thing it only applies to particles and not particle-sized boxes. Oh wait.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:24:45 2014 No.6413323 I can't believe it...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:25:15 2014 No.6413324 OP... How did you...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:26:15 2014 No.6413327 Amazing...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:27:15 2014 No.6413329 I didn't think it was possible...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:28:15 2014 No.6413331 Damn...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:29:15 2014 No.6413332 Brilliant...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:30:15 2014 No.6413334 Holy...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:31:15 2014 No.6413336 Did someone on 4chan just...

Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:32:45 2014 No.6413338
File: 14 KB, 352x240, the box.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6413305
>The particle cannot move anymore and has therefore zero momentum
Wouldn't it just transfer its energy into the box? Now you can't know the exact position and momentum of the box!

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:33:15 2014 No.6413340 Is /sci/ good again?... Holy shit...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:34:15 2014 No.6413344 Fuck...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:35:15 2014 No.6413345 Is it...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:36:15 2014 No.6413348 How did you...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:37:15 2014 No.6413349 Woah...

Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:37:45 2014 No.6413351

>>6413305
>The box is at rest, so you know the exact position of its center
How do you know it's completely at rest?
>Shrink the box
Without moving the position at all? hmm...
>The particle will remain in the box
Will it?
>In the end the box will perfectly fit the particle
How will the box shrink perfectly around the position of the particle? Just because the box shrinks doesn't meant he particle accommodates for the new size of the box

I like it but I can't be so sure yet...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:38:16 2014 No.6413352 Did you just...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:38:45 2014 No.6413354 Quantum harmonic oscillators have existed for a while. Chill out /sci/. P.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_in_a_box

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:39:45 2014 No.6413356 Damn...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:40:46 2014 No.6413357 Shit...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:40:46 2014 No.6413358 >>6413308 >>6413309 >>6413313 >>6413317 >>6413320 >>6413323 >>6413324 >>6413327 >>6413329 >>6413331 >>6413332 >>6413334 >>6413336 >>6413340 >>6413344 >>6413345 >>6413348 >>6413349 >>6413352 >>6413356 samefag

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:41:46 2014 No.6413364 I didn't think I would see the day...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:42:45 2014 No.6413367 How...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:43:45 2014 No.6413370 OP, you are brilliant...

Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:44:15 2014 No.6413372

>hurr you cant know the momentum and speed of a particle
why do people still believe this bullshit? the Heisenburg uncertainty principal was just thought up by a retarded engineer to justify why his shitty measuring devises could not accurately measure the position of the particles. now that we have electron microscopes and particle collides we can actually see individual quarks, and they arnt flying to Andromeda when we look at them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:44:45 2014 No.6413374 Genius...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:45:45 2014 No.6413377 So it is possible...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:46:45 2014 No.6413380 >>6413354 >Chill out /sci/. It's one guy samefaggin

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:46:45 2014 No.6413381 Extraordinary...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:47:45 2014 No.6413385 I always dreamed this day would come...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:48:45 2014 No.6413389 Woah...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:49:15 2014 No.6413390 Holy shit, it's happening...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:50:16 2014 No.6413395 I am blown away...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:50:45 2014 No.6413394 Not sure if this is a troll thread or OP is trying to make it look like more than himself is posting. The one minute gaps are the give away.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:51:15 2014 No.6413398 I can't believe it...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:51:45 2014 No.6413397 >>6413395 >comment below me Omg...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:52:15 2014 No.6413401 Oh my god...

Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:52:45 2014 No.6413400
File: 134 KB, 1024x683, asa12.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS FROGS

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:52:45 2014 No.6413399 >>6413394 It's just one guy samefagging

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:53:15 2014 No.6413406 >>6413399 I know that, I am just wandering if he is just trolling or actually thinks he convincing anyone he is not samefaggin

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:53:15 2014 No.6413407 I can't believe it... Is it really happening?...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:54:15 2014 No.6413409 This is incredible! You should get a Nobel for this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:54:15 2014 No.6413410 Awesome...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:54:45 2014 No.6413408 >>6413406 Whatever he's doing it's annoying

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:55:16 2014 No.6413413 Spectacular...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:55:45 2014 No.6413411 File: 2.17 MB, 199x195, 1394723431812.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is your reward OP

>>	black science man would be proud Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:56:15 2014 No.6413415 File: 43 KB, 437x468, 1394834206269.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] #Science

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:56:15 2014 No.6413416 OP, I am amazed...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:57:15 2014 No.6413420 Woah...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:57:45 2014 No.6413418 File: 38 KB, 348x540, wutwuts.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:58:15 2014 No.6413422 >>6413400 Put frogs in the box then shrink it, they can't move anymore so we can know the axact momentum and position of them!

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 17:59:15 2014 No.6413426 Magnificent...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:00:15 2014 No.6413429 Mother of god...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:00:45 2014 No.6413430 >>6413418 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4QBRgyitFs

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:01:15 2014 No.6413431 Holy shit...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:02:45 2014 No.6413435 43 minutes...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:02:45 2014 No.6413436 >>6413422 Magnificent...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:04:45 2014 No.6413438 Such proof So clever many quantifications Wow Intersting So nobel

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:05:45 2014 No.6413440 File: 154 KB, 330x327, 1393388569972.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6413430

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:07:15 2014 No.6413445 Is it over?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:09:15 2014 No.6413450 File: 53 KB, 320x240, 1394758028643.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6413422 OH BABY

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:10:15 2014 No.6413452 >>6413422 Woah

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:11:15 2014 No.6413455 >>6413422 It's all over now

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:13:45 2014 No.6413457 >>6413422 I don't believe it

Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:14:15 2014 No.6413459
File: 16 KB, 378x292, 1363283982160.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Let's do the math. For the sake of simplicity assume the box is centered around the point with coordinate 0.

As the box gets smaller and smaller, the position will tend to the definite number 0.
At the same time the momentum grows larger and larger until in the limit it finally becomes -1/12.

Position and momentum both have definite exact values. QED

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:14:45 2014 No.6413458 >>6413422 Has he done it...

Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:24:15 2014 No.6413469

>>6413459
>>6413372
>confusing standard deviation and expected value
No, Heisenberg was not a retarded engineer
No, the uncertainty principle is not obsolete
No, being very uncertain about the momentum of a particle doesn't mean it nhas a very high momentum
Yes, a particle can have a very high momentum and a bounded position. Learn2 oscillations.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:27:45 2014 No.6413472 m-masaka...

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:42:46 2014 No.6413498 >>6413438 Much delete Very pissed So frustrate Wow

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:44:15 2014 No.6413504 >>6413305 The particle is smaller than the spaces between the atoms that make up the box, so it just slips out and you don't find it again. /thread

Anonymous Fri Mar 14 18:44:45 2014 No.6413502

>>6413305
The particle is not at rest if perfectly confined to the box.

As you shrink the box, the pressure the particle exerts on the sides of the box increases.

As you continue to shrink the box, you must do work against the pressure which increase the velocity of the particle.

As size of box goes to zero, the particles energy, and hence velocity, goes to infinity.

Exactly as it must to preserve the Uncertainty Principle.

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