/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Sat Feb 8 12:56:29 2014 No.6342185 [DELETED]

Are blacks really intellectually inferior to whites and asians?
Is there any credible scientific work that would (dis)prove this thesis?

I imagine the IQ tests done in the US and the conclusions based on that, i.e. comparison between blacks and people of other origin (whites, hispanics, asians) doesn't take into account social stratification, nepotism and a long history of restraining african-americans, does it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 12:57:59 2014 No.6342189 I don't think so. It's hard because we can't measure intelligence accurately. A black guy in my uni group is absolutely brilliant.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:08:28 2014 No.6342207 >>6342189 lol, the first reply to this thread is literally "i knew this one smart black guy once"

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:09:28 2014 No.6342209 >>6342207 What do you expect? Of couse I only have anecdotical evidence, I did not make a study about that because it's fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:14:28 2014 No.6342216 I think its generally accepted that any intelligence differences because of race is tiny compared to individual variations.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:15:29 2014 No.6342218 look at Africa(black Africa, not arab Africa(Egypt)) and look at Europe 1500-2000 years ago, blacks basically lived like monkeys while whites built amazing things (rome for example) blacks are a prototype of white people.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:24:59 2014 No.6342233

>>6342216
if so, are the tiny differences in IQ those that set us so far apart technologically?

>>6342218
So did Europeans when the Middle east and northern africa were at its most prominent peak of civilization.
And Rome was limited to southern and central Europe. Northern europeans didn't advance much.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:28:58 2014 No.6342235 So...who are the smartest blacks in STEM?

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:35:59 2014 No.6342242

Short answer, yes. If you were to compare all black people on Earth's intelligence to white people or Asians, you'd probably find they're less intelligent.

However, black people definitely tend to be poorer in pretty much any country where they live - which is, either third world countries, or being the relatively poor minority in first world countries. And wealth correlates with intelligence, health, height, etc.

That being said, there probably isn't any major difference in intelligence at birth, and they're definitely not less intelligent *because* they're black.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:38:28 2014 No.6342248

>>6342233
Well I'm not sure IQ is a good measure of anything really. Theres probably tons of reasons for different levels of developement, culture probably being a large one. There are a lot of books written about this, go read Guns Germs and Steel, don't treat it like fact but think about its reasoning. Hell just look it up on wikipedia and start reading from there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:39:28 2014 No.6342250 File: 282 KB, 843x843, 1340063722751.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] here, read this this image is shitty but the MTRAS is real and pretty damning

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:44:28 2014 No.6342260

>>6342242
Black fag here...Jamaican to be specific. "History" or his story leads you to believe that "blacks" are inferior because the history of blacks have been tainted in the history books. Egypt for instance, was created by the blacks and slowly integrated into a multicultural Arab society. Even the word black has a negative connotation in the dictionary (look at the difference between black and white). There was a time when whites were confined to caves in "Europa", while blacks were thriving in Africa. It all comes down to societal intelligence meaning that it depends on what type of society the individual comes from, that dictates how "smart" they are.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:44:59 2014 No.6342259 File: 788 KB, 1200x952, poltroll.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Oh look this thread again.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:46:58 2014 No.6342264

>>6342260
No, I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about today.

On average, black people today have less access to education than white people, therefore they're less intelligent.

That's really all there is to it, I'm not trying to make any implications on history or anything, it's just as it is and it's a shame but that's the truth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:47:58 2014 No.6342267 >>6342260 >>6342264 Wait a second I just actually read the post Did I just get tricked?

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:51:58 2014 No.6342269

>>6342250
Your argument is still misinterpreted because the chart depicts intelligence based of off sample testing. The sample testing is derived from reports of blacks who are usually in the low income bracket based on the effects of history. What you want to gather is whether blacks have the same MENTAL CAPACITY as whites. That is where the argument can find resolution.
Mind you, There are many blacks in congress...while our president is half black.
My first algebra teacher was a Nigerian woman who graduated from Oxford university.
I also fell like the attacks on blacks is a way for white men to feel better about themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:53:58 2014 No.6342272 >>6342264 oh...i definitely agree with u anon. I think with advent of hip-hop (which is a corporate culture) numbers in intelligence have decreased substantially.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:55:28 2014 No.6342276 >>6342267 what do you mean by get tricked?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:56:28 2014 No.6342278 >>6342269 how would one test a mental capacity for a whole population?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:59:29 2014 No.6342284 >>6342278 You cant. What i am saying is that we both understand blacks in general have a lower IQ, but what you really want to find is whether blacks have the same mental capacity as whites.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 13:59:58 2014 No.6342282

>>6342250

>pretty damning

There is very little there to suggest any innate, biologic differences in intelligence, especially cconsidering it is nigh impossible to control for all cultural and neurologic influences on intellectual development and test performance.

Not to mention, the descendants of Africcan Americans in the modern day cannot be said to be representative samples of all Africans, which are incredibly diverse, let alone can the results be extrapolated to make conclusions about other races.

The facct is, everyone is going to look at these incredibly ambiguous correlations and see whatever they already believed in them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:01:58 2014 No.6342286 >>6342284 >mental capacity Which one?

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:03:58 2014 No.6342291

>>6342282
Agreed. "African Americans" are different from Africans. There are no limits in terms of intellectual properties, between any of the racial class. In terms of industrial and technological improvements within their current societies...well that is a different argument.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:05:28 2014 No.6342294

>>6342284

The question is without merit.

There isn't any evidence that tested differences are a function of being black.

The categories themselves are arbitrary.

Are people who perfer opera over sports less criminally inclined? Could there be some biological correlation of a correlation of a correlate of the results of such a study? Is that the most meaningful denomination by which to categorize human intelligence?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:05:58 2014 No.6342293 >>6342286 elaborate on your question some more anon.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:07:28 2014 No.6342297

The question the the OP asked is if blacks are intellectually inferior to whites/asians, not if it's genetic. You guys are getting wrapped up in a "nature vs nurture" argument for no reason.

Whether you think it's because of social stratification or genetics, I think we can all agree that ON AVERAGE blacks, both in the world and in america specifically, are less intelligent and educated than whites/asians.

In b4 more >muh anticdotal evidence! I saw a smart black guy once, that means all blacks are smart! I saw a blue car once, that means all cars are blue!

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:07:28 2014 No.6342298

>>6342185
>Are blacks really intellectually inferior to whites and asians?

Yes, on average.

>Is there any credible scientific work that would (dis)prove this thesis?

No.

The only remaining major question is whether it is caused by genetics. It's extremely probable, and a recent paper that analyzed the specific alleles known to be associated with g found that they were not evenly distributed. Still, N=10 of alleles, so it's only the beginning, but we will know for sure very soon.

See: >>6341829

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:09:58 2014 No.6342299 >>6342294 >Are people who perfer opera over sports less criminally inclined? People who prefer sports are more likely to commit blue collar crimes. Those who prefer opera are more likely to commit white collar crimes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:09:58 2014 No.6342302 >>6342299 Those who prefer sports are definitely more crime prone. Opera is an upper class thing, and upper class people commit fewer crimes.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:10:58 2014 No.6342303

>>6342294
>The question is without merit.

Every question has merit. It's really disgusting how /sci/ starts vomiting up anti-intellectual sentiments and using fallacious arguments every time they come up against someone with a belief they don't like. Even if your position is correct, that's no reason to act like an imbecile.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:12:28 2014 No.6342306

>>6342294
The answers to the tests actually right in front of us. Though they do not hold the same controls as an official experiment look, at the amount of successful blacks in white america. For such a small percentage of the population they are represented tremendously in all forms of positions in society .

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:13:58 2014 No.6342308

>>6342303
It's more a 4chan thing. But sure, the posts are particularly nasty against someone who posts heterodox views on this touchy subject.

But as Jensen wrote, race and cognitive abilities is a litmus test for the scientificness of psychology. If it cannot handle that, it does not deserve the title.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:13:58 2014 No.6342309 >>6342303 thank you

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:15:58 2014 No.6342312 >>6342302 The higher class people are more prone to a different type of crime. A poor person is more likely to commit armed robbery. A rich person is more likely to be guilty of money laundering or insider trading.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:18:58 2014 No.6342319

>>6342298
It is definitely not a genetic argument. Variations in the human makeup do not show that much of a deviation.
What you want to here is that blacks are genetically inferior. They are a product of the cycle of poverty. Given the proper resources and nurturing blacks can do anything whites can do.
you are akin to a Nazi, who believe that certain races are subhuman.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:20:58 2014 No.6342321

>>6342306
>For such a small percentage of the population they are represented tremendously in all forms of positions in society .

Actually that's the opposite of the truth. Blacks are 12% of the US population, but as of 2013, there have been 1,949 members of the United States Senate, but only nine have been African American. That's roughly 0.2%, and CURRENTLY there are only 3 black senators. House of reps is a bit better: 42 africans currently out of 435 members. That's still below 10%. As for blacks CEOs and millionares that didn't make their money from sports, they're about as common as the jackalope.

Seriously though your post is retarded.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:26:58 2014 No.6342334

>>6342319
>Variations in the human makeup do not show that much of a deviation.

Tiny differences go a long way. I want you to step back for a second and objectively look at what you're saying; you think it makes sense that when you compare lets say Han chinese and Jamacians, that their heritage would make their skin tone different, their muscle type and distribution different, their height different, their knee structures different, their facial features different, their likelyhood of becoming diabetic much different, they have completely different dispositions for genetic disorders, they have different hair textures; pretty much everything is slightly different, yet somehow their brain will be exactly the same in every single way, just because we can't test it easily to confirm a difference? That's just an argument from ignorance. Especially with a machine as complex as the human brain, even a small change can radically change the function.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:31:59 2014 No.6342346 >That's still below 10%. As for blacks CEOs and millionares that didn't make their money from sports, they're about as common as the jackalope. Your saying that blacks are only good for making money in sports.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:36:28 2014 No.6342357

>>6342334
>>Tiny differences go a long way. I want you to step back for a second and objectively look at what you're saying; you think it makes sense that when you compare lets say Han chinese and Jamacians, that their heritage would make their skin tone different, their muscle type and distribution different, their height different, their knee structures different, their facial features different, their likelyhood of becoming diabetic much different, they have completely different dispositions for genetic disorders, they have different hair textures; pretty much everything is slightly different, yet somehow their brain will be exactly the same in every single way, just because we can't test it easily to confirm a difference? That's just an argument from ignorance. Especially with a machine as complex as the human brain, even a small change can radically change the function.

your seriously over thinking a simple concept. We still have two arms, two legs and a head. relative to those properties difference are minute. So how much difference is in our mental capacity?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:36:28 2014 No.6342358 >>6342185 On average, blacks have lower IQ than other races (except abbos). IIRC the average IQ in sub-Saharan Africa is around 70 or less. Can't blame white people for that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality also, the bell curve

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:38:59 2014 No.6342360 >>6342185 History has been hostile against the improvement of blacks in our society since our introduction. we are tremendously successful considering the odds

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:41:29 2014 No.6342370 >>6342358 Take that same sub-Saharan, give him to Angelina Jolie and see if he still scores the same as Africans from where he is from. Its a nurture issue.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:41:58 2014 No.6342369

>>6342321

You also forget that millions of baby boomer whites as got a MASSIVE handout in the form of the GI bill while only about a fifth of black applicants where able to get GI Bill money COMBINED with the refusal of many banks to loan and to give mortgages to blacks COMBINED with the VA holding up various disability benefits and registration for blacks well into the 50s.

That shit has a generational wave.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:43:28 2014 No.6342380

>>6342358

The nutrition of people in sub-Saharan Africa is also FAR below western standards to the point of it becoming malnutrition as a societal standard. Lack of calories in juvenile development literally makes "lesser human beings" not for moral or genetic reasons but as phenotypical development in response to environment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:44:29 2014 No.6342383 >>6342185 Race baiting isn't science, keep this shit off /sci/

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:44:58 2014 No.6342382

Why exactly are blacks always the center of these discussions? Sure, they seem less intelligent on average, but there are some brilliant, high academically accomplished ones.

I've certainly never see any Aborigines or Native Americans who could compare to John Dabiri, Arlie Petters, Alexander Animalu, Jim Gates, etc.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:45:28 2014 No.6342387

>>6342360
Yes, just look at Liberia where you got a chance to start anew without the white man oppressing you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuSS0iiFyo

>>6342370
No sauce, no go.
Contrary to your claim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:45:28 2014 No.6342388 >>6342369 Society has been working against us, while whites have been privileged not to have such forces acting against them.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 14:58:58 2014 No.6342422

>>6342387
"The findings are consistent with the literature showing that adoptees (including adolescents) are at greater risk than non-adoptees for externalizing behavior problems including delinquency, general health, and school adjustment."
Greater risk does not mean absolute.
But again we have moved from the original topic of "blacks" being genetically inferior in terms of mental capacity. (You are now making a case based on adopted children, which i can understand since i referenced being adopted)

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:01:28 2014 No.6342432 >>6342382 There is a certain amount of insecurity in some white males.if blacks were to be found as being equals in intelligence when given the opportunity and physically more dominant, i believe there would be a cuckold present

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:14:29 2014 No.6342468

>>6342382
It's because the US blacks and whites are the two populations studied the most.

Few people talk about e.g. Ashkenazim Jews being smarter or the northeast Asians being smarter.

>>6342358
Newer estimates put it at 75 or so. But still, it's very low.

>>6342319
>They are a product of the cycle of poverty. Given the proper resources and nurturing blacks can do anything whites can do.

No, already tried that many times. In fact, the US does it every year, and it doesn't work as the official report show. See: Head start.

Drop the politics and the psychologizing crap.

>>6342312
Yes, but the overall crime rate is higher in the bottom of society.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:21:58 2014 No.6342481

>>6342468

The overall rate of police surveillance, the lack of availability of EFFECTIVE representation in courts, and sentencing in both frequency and length is also higher in lower-income areas.

>See: Head start.

Public education in America sucks ass universally. Head Start is a shitty program that adds on more shit for teachers to do OTHER than teaching their classes. It speaks volumes of your naivety to point to a program, as if any one can point to a program without considering how it's implemented and how well it provides services and how well it works towards the rationales that were used in establishing its existence.

"Politics" and "Psychologizing crap" are still FORCES THAT ACTUALLY EXIST. Whites in Colorado smoke weed with impunity but black weed smokers in Louisiana are given multi-decade sentences for pot possession and give free labor to a prison system that operates as the largest employer in many counties.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:33:56 2014 No.6342516

Inherently? Almost certainly not, any rational person will tell you environment has a significant impact.

This is under the assumption that IQ is accurate. Also many people assume a person's IQ is static from birth. You can practice IQ tests and get a much higher score.

I've tried debating this and its always "black people are stupid and evil", "racists are stupid and evil" or "No well informed intellectual without psychological damage would espouse the notion of inherent intellectual differences between races when it appears to be empirically false".

I hold the last opinion as does pretty much every smart person I know. These threads don't change anyone's mind.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:39:29 2014 No.6342537

>>6342185

I have no idea whether it's genetic or environmental or what not, but I'm much more impressed at finding a academically gifted black person than white or Asian (especially in STEM). Supposedly they've been fighting the white man's system the whole time, which makes it very inspirational.

Seriously my engineering classes are like 50 % asian (indian + chinese) and 49.0001% white and there is 1 black guy there.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:45:29 2014 No.6342552

>>6342357
Monkeys have two arms, two legs, and a head. Do you think that chimpanzees have the same genetic predisposition to intelligence as humans do? What about clay sculptures? Those have arms, legs and heads too.

You are oversimplifying things to avoid the facts. Everything that we can test is slightly different, so why would you assume that everything we can't test is exactly, identically the same?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:45:58 2014 No.6342550 File: 56 KB, 595x471, ahahaha.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6342185 induring OP thinks people a few hundred years ago were retarded because humans evolve that fast and intelligence is related to genetics. mfw

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:50:58 2014 No.6342564 >>6342552 >the facts >obvious pleb who can't into the scientific method.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:58:58 2014 No.6342580 >>6342537 No hispanics?

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 15:59:28 2014 No.6342587

>>6342564
You're the one using argument from ignorance to support the ridiculous idea that all groups of people have the same average IQ.

Lets say that you make two groups of completely random people. I'm not talking race here; just completely random groups of people. One of those two groups would have a higher average IQ than the other. The odds of them just both coincidentally having identical averages is pretty low.

I'm not saying the difference is huge, but people on /sci/ always act like the very concept that there is any difference at all between groups of people is the same as performing 50 holocausts.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 20:43:59 2014 No.6343236

>>6342587
Or just compare, say, white doctors with white plumbers. Pretty big difference, no race factor.

>>6342537
Yes, that's what you get with a threshold cutoff and groups with different means.

>>6342516
>You can practice IQ tests and get a much higher score.

IQ is just a proxy for g. It is of no theoretical interest.

>I've tried debating this and its always "black people are stupid and evil", "racists are stupid and evil" or "No well informed intellectual without psychological damage would espouse the notion of inherent intellectual differences between races when it appears to be empirically false".

So when well informed, sane intellectuals DO in fact espouse such views, it follows that there is indeed empirical grounds for holding it. The implication isn't true tho. Some intellectuals also espouse, e.g. AIDS denialism, astrology etc..

>>6342481

Head Start is a compensatory education program, designed to make people from low SES environments smarter. It doesn't work. Or that is, the effects don't last. Read the reports. There were other programs like that and they didn't work either. That's why Jensen wrote "Compensatory education has been tried and it apparently has failed."

>"Politics" and "Psychologizing crap" are still FORCES THAT ACTUALLY EXIST. Whites in Colorado smoke weed with impunity but black weed smokers in Louisiana are given multi-decade sentences for pot possession and give free labor to a prison system that operates as the largest employer in many counties.

Not relevant.

Carbon Sat Feb 8 22:46:44 2014 No.6343440

>>6342185
Generalization is to be avoided scientifically.
This is why Newtonian physics was superseded by relativistic physics which is superseded by quantum...
Sure, Newtonian can get you into the ballpark of what is going on...there is way more error.

To accept generalization is to accept error...this is unscientific, this is why scientist research and deal with abstraction normal people wouldn't.
Generalizations live in the dark space that scientist haven't fully explored and understood....this is why this fucking thread keeps appearing...this is why baseless theories appear, this is why assumptions about the unobservable universe are accepted as fact.
To generalize a whole group is simply lazy and causes faulty and sometimes baseless assumptions.
>TL;DR
Its best to observe humans as individuals and use generalizations sparingly.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 22:53:44 2014 No.6343452

>>6342260
>Egypt for instance, was created by the blacks
Not , you are wrong, mainstream scientific community agrees Egypt racial identity was the same as it is now, caucasoid mixed race, genetically first emperors were highly related with european people while last emperors were mostly negroid.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:02:15 2014 No.6343469 whites just ya kno, hate themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:03:44 2014 No.6343472 >>6343236 >significant portion of your population is targeted for imprisonment in a prison system that profits off of low cost/slave labor >not relevant

Carbon Sat Feb 8 23:19:44 2014 No.6343496

>>6342321
>Actually that's the opposite of the truth. Blacks are 12% of the US population, but as of 2013, there have been 1,949 members of the United States Senate, but only nine have been African American. That's roughly 0.2%, and CURRENTLY there are only 3 black senators. House of reps is a bit better: 42 africans currently out of 435 members.

Thing is, politics relies on popularity, not intellectual achievement.
>there will never be a senate composed of engineers and physicist

>As for blacks CEOs and millionares that didn't make their money from sports, they're about as common as the jackalope.
I think this is starting to trend upward for all minorities for some reason though.

>>	Carbon Sat Feb 8 23:21:15 2014 No.6343500 >>6342358 >what is nutrition and early development... You've seen that correlation too right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:22:14 2014 No.6343501 >>6343452 >>6343452 >highly related with european people Meaning Arabs?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:24:14 2014 No.6343505 >>6342264 You imply that being educated is the same as being intelligent, which is false for more reasons than one. Also, having access does not mean a particular group uses said access smartly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:24:14 2014 No.6343506 >>6343501 Probably

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:26:44 2014 No.6343513 >>6343500 The difference persists when environment and nutrition are controlled

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:28:14 2014 No.6343515

Why are you guys always so obsessed with "proving" that Blacks are less intelligent compared to Whites? Insecurity due to the fact that Asians, Indians dominate fields that are colloquially dubbed as "smart fields?" Or do you guys really feel better about yourselves by doing so?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:29:15 2014 No.6343518 >>6343513 Evidence?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:29:44 2014 No.6343522 >>6343505 can't you get more intelligent by educating yourself? Are you saying intelligence is a constant? >>6343515 perhaps it's the indians and asians creating those threads.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:31:44 2014 No.6343528 >>6343522 Intelligent in a particular sense. But to simply say that after becoming educated then a person is intelligent is false. Plus, there are different types of intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:42:44 2014 No.6343546 >>6343518 https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/the-minnesota-transracial-adoption-study-a-follow-up-of-iq-test-performance-at-adolescence1.pdf

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:49:14 2014 No.6343561

>>6342308

>But as Jensen wrote, race and cognitive abilities is a litmus test for the scientificness of psychology. If it cannot handle that, it does not deserve the title.

He has loaded the statement in his favor; he does not allow for the possibility of negligible biologic difference.

That's not surprising. Scientists are humans and no less prone to ideology.

In his capacity as a supremacist I would not be surprised, but as a researcher, even a psychologist, I was hoping for a bit more objectivity.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:49:14 2014 No.6343562

>>6343522
Not really, but actually if your parents have higher IQ and you are not an fully developed adult yet your IQ can still rise until adulthood thus matching your parents IQ, but if your parents have lower IQ, bad news for you, your IQ will lower to same level of theirs, g is hereditary afterall.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:53:14 2014 No.6343568 >>6343562 what you're saying is people are inevitably getting more stupid. your logic is unquestionable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:54:44 2014 No.6343570 >>6343568 nope, people tend to return to their "race" average.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:54:44 2014 No.6343571

>>6343546

'The difference' is on a metric with dubious, if any, known foundation in neurology and genetics.

And "environment" and nutrition influences are certainly not controlled for in relation to epigenetics of biologic parents.

There is very little that can be done to control environment. Language of thought is essential in intelligence. Language capacity solidifies around adolescence for most children. That depends on their friends and parents. In a society where communities are divided along racial lines, people of a particular race background will more likely to find themselves friends with members of the same race, although that wasn't my experience personally.

This research is a combination of ill-defined concepts and assumptions swept under the rug. There isn't a hard science in which it would be accepted as evidence of anything.

Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:57:44 2014 No.6343573

>>6343570

humans tend to return to their 'human' average.

any given inbreeding population will tend to return to their 'family' average.

I dunno what merits race over any other category, save that it is just the most commonly identified with group as of the Victorian era. The unwarranted importance placed on race is simply because of its social importance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 8 23:59:45 2014 No.6343576 >>6343573 victorian race correlates quite neatly with genetic markers.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:03:44 2014 No.6343583

>>6343576

I'm not saying race can't have some strong biologic correlates, but only that it's not nearly the most meaningful way to denominate individuals according to intelligence, or that of their children. I believe the same individuals who claim the research is obstructed by PC attitudes are often similarly guilty of placing undue influence on race denominations simply because they believe it doesn't otherwise receive enough attention.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:04:15 2014 No.6343584 File: 344 KB, 655x1081, thecarsonfire.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6343496 >there will never be a senate composed of engineers and physicist

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:08:44 2014 No.6343592

>>6343571
>epigenetics
Again, environment is controlled
>Language of thought is essential in intelligence. Language capacity solidifies around adolescence for most children
There's no need for that because IQ tests can be applied to very young children without developed language, yet children do score higher than adults due several factor, including higher brain adaptability.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:12:15 2014 No.6343596

>>6343592
>Again, environment is controlled

except it isn't. Epigenetic influences can last for generations yet not be encoded in genetics themselves. There's a whole range of noise between gene and phenotype.

>There's no need for that because IQ tests can be applied to very young children without developed language, yet children do score higher than adults due several factor, including higher brain adaptability.

Until age 3 there is very little difference in results. By then there's plenty of time for child to develop self-image, interact differently, and establish different motivations.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:17:15 2014 No.6343609 >>6343583 minessota interracial study fagget.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:19:14 2014 No.6343616

>>6342209
>I did not make a study about that because it's fucking retarded.

Why is it retarded to do a study about that? Are you afraid of the answer? Do you just find the idea repugnant?

I think it's a question worth asking, and answering (though I think this has already been done). It is a key to solving many of the problems that plague our society.

Universal equality was a nice idea, but it was a belief that has been proven untrue.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:22:14 2014 No.6343622

>>6343596
>Epigenetic influences can last for generations
[citation needed]
Do you even know what is epigenetics in first place?
>Until age 3 there is very little difference in results. By then there's plenty of time for child to develop self-image, interact differently, and establish different motivations.
My god, what the fuck are you talking about?There's no need for self image in IQ tests

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:26:45 2014 No.6343634

>>6343596
IQ gap hasn't closed in the last 100 years, it has stayed the same and all black population presents the same pattern and standart deviation compared to white populations.
is impossible to find an enviroment answer that is repeated on all the black persons in the planet.
also, the top richest 10% of black kids in america score lower in the SAT test than even the poorest 10% white kids.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:27:44 2014 No.6343639

>>6343622

>Do you even know what is epigenetics in first place?

if you're curious, wikipedia gives a pretty solid definition:
>In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene activity that are not caused by changes in the DNA sequence

>My god, what the fuck are you talking about?There's no need for self image in IQ tests

I am not going to continue if I need to spoon-feed you.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/04/26/iq-scores-reflect-motivation-as-well-as-intelligence/#.UvcRnvvuozQ

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:31:44 2014 No.6343646

>>6343634

>IQ gap hasn't closed in the last 100 years, it has stayed the same and all black population presents the same pattern and standart deviation compared to white populations.
is impossible to find an enviroment answer that is repeated on all the black persons in the planet.

100 years is nothing; our species has been around nearly 2 million years. The ebb and flow of civilization over a matter of centuries can and may yet turn out to be nothing but historic anomaly.

>also, the top richest 10% of black kids in america score lower in the SAT test than even the poorest 10% white kids.

In the greater scheme of things, this counts for little in so far as providing evidence from biology.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:35:14 2014 No.6343654 >>6343609 >when all else fails, copypasta

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:40:44 2014 No.6343659 >>6343646 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecJEYplQzXU >all those butthurt comments. pls give a counterexplanation for ALL his arguments. >inb4 quack science >inb4 pseudoscience >inb4 muh feelings.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:48:44 2014 No.6343677

>>6343634
>IQ gap hasn't closed in the last 100 years

http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/amp-67-2-130.pdf

>(i) The IQ gap between
Blacks and Whites has been reduced by 0.33 SD in recent years

What I would suggests to supremacists is to avoid science in arguments in so far as possible.

You are far better of under a condition where little is understood concerning the biological underpinnings of most any human trait. You can then continue using the tactic of alluding to hidden 'truths' rather than facing complex biologic realities that paint a far, far more nuanced picture of what defines an individual human.

If further research sheds light on the nuances of humanity and race, you will have your mythos, and a world which generally favors the image of your race as innately superior, dissolve under your feet. If we have a complete understanding of the relation between genetics and phenotype, there will be little room for ideas of race.

In such a world, many blacks would be valued more than many whites. Scientific reality would form a new basis on which to support more mixing of people and cultures than not.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:58:44 2014 No.6343690 >>6342218 try living in such a horrible geography and see if you act any different

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 00:59:15 2014 No.6343691 >>6343677 your pdf says the gap is closing, but >>6342298 is saying there's a paper that is suggesting the gap will never close because the differences are caused by genetics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 01:03:14 2014 No.6343696 >>6343691 nice citation

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 01:05:14 2014 No.6343698 >>6343696 (>>6342298, 2014)

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 01:06:14 2014 No.6343699

>>6343659
>>6343659

He is talking at a white supremacist convention. We know the sorts of conclusions these folks will draw from his talk; even though placing so much weight on race categories in the first place is without merit. He's only there to preach to the choir; the ones who had their conclusion from the beginning and have searched for evidence after the fact.

He has indexed studies conducted over a few decades and made some of the unfounded assumptions large enough to be fatal to his central arguments if they do not pan out.

Descendants of Africans in the US are not representative of all Africans let alone can their relationship to US whites be extrapolated to all races. Nor is 'heritable' at all the same as genetic. Religion is heritable. Society's attitude toward you is heritable.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 01:23:44 2014 No.6343716

Is it possible that if blacks and minorities of darker skin do in fact score lower on IQ tests, that it's simply of sign of how we as a society view ourselves.
I mean, it's reported over and over again that people with confidence tend to be better at doing tasks; a minority raised often reminding that they lack intelligence compared to Caucasians and Asians, easily might not be confident that she/he will do just as well as them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 01:50:18 2014 No.6343767 >>6342357 So do most reptiles, amphibians and mammals. Moron.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 01:53:14 2014 No.6343774 >>6342380 This is true. Although i would like to make the point that a huge amount of russian children grow up on vodka, tobacco, borsch and vile meat yet russian IQ and economic success is fairly high

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 01:55:45 2014 No.6343781 >>6342388 Yeah I dont think so. Jews have been shit on since the beginning of their existence but look where they are now. Slavs were enslaved for so long that they are the namesake for the word slave.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 02:00:14 2014 No.6343788 >>6343496 Well ok how about you look at the number of black scientists and engineers. Oh woops the numbers are still incredibly low. Who would have thought

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 02:04:44 2014 No.6343793

>>6342552
You're trying to line the solution with your preconceived ideas. Starting your logic off on an unstable axiom that humans have godlike intelligence compared to our close apes. I'm not stating that apes have intelligence as high as us but more so that we are as stupid as them.

You can say that we do in fact have godlike intelligence compared to them but then the relativity of both our capacities are gutted by observational bias.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 02:34:14 2014 No.6343816 >/sci/ has been successfully redpilled /pol/ should be jettisoned off into space

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 02:50:45 2014 No.6343831 >>6342550 I like how this obvious evidence gets ignored by the /pol/esmokers. Obviously they can't into logical thinking.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 02:56:44 2014 No.6343836 >>6343677 That would depend on whether the genetic origins of high intelligence operate consistently across whatever genetic difference divides races.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:00:14 2014 No.6343844 >>6343816 >tfw no mars colony Hold me, /sci/...

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:00:14 2014 No.6343846

>>6343831

The irony of all this is that the average "IQ" probably is decreased by the structure of civilized societies in comparison to hunter-gatherer societies. Although the internet and urbanization might actually be changing that.

With a division of labor, you get political types, priest types, entertainer types, intellectual types, worker bee types, soldier types, etc. The political type is able to gain power not by intuitive knowledge of the physical mechanics of the world or the ability to analyze and systemize ideologies or physical systems. The political type gets its power from the intuitive ability to manipulate various social and governmental systems which distribute the surplus of the civilized mode of production for elite intentions and goals. The political type also happens to usually have access to the most "mates". I think you can discern the implications from there.

Of course at this stage of history, I think talks of eugenics and racial superiority is moot. We're probably at the infancy of designer babies and a gene market which will supplant and make obselete any weird social schemes for natural breeding.

Everyone will be a mulatto of different genes from different races. Deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:02:44 2014 No.6343849 >>6342235 I'd like to see this answered.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:03:14 2014 No.6343851
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/thread

in case you are too lazy to read this book (you're certainly too fucking lazy to do any internet research on race and IQ), I'll summarize it for you? american blacks have an average IQ a full standard deviation lower than whites. Don't like it? Well, nature doesn't give a shit.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:06:15 2014 No.6343859

>>6343851

Nature doesn't give a shit but that would honestly be more impetus for better education for blacks. As it stands, they receive substandard services and have a substandard social status. If they were "a standard deviation less intelligent", it'd be a twisted and hypocritical cruelty to do the things that the USA has done to them.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:13:46 2014 No.6343873

>>6343859

>better education for blacks

blacks have every advantage with affirmative action, scholarships, increased funding to minority and 'low-performing' schools, etc... ad infinitum.

The gap that exists can't be closed even if everyone else tries their damndest to close it. And in trying to close it, they neglect the 88% of people who aren't black. Trying to force two unequal populations to be equal is a recipe for disaster; a reason why so many public school systems in the U.S. are absolute and total shit.

> they receive substandard services

quite the opposite.

> and have a substandard social status

which is why gangster rappers are glorified on TV and everyone and their mother is trying to imitate them.

If they were "a standard deviation less intelligent"

It's not a matter of 'if', it's a verified fact that the IQ distribution for american blacks is centered around 85.

>it'd be a twisted and hypocritical cruelty to do the things that the USA has done to them.

I'm sorry, what? Should everyone with pale skin kowtow to blacks because slavery existed in the 1850s (only the ultrarich- about 1.8% of males- owned slaves back then). This idea that we have to thrust melanated people into a position of ultimate privilege because of the existence of slavery centuries ago, is absolute nonsense!

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:16:44 2014 No.6343877

>>6343849
>>6342235

There are more scientists and mathematicians living on earth right now than there have been throughout entire timespans of other eras. The "famous" scientists and mathematicians out there are not representative of the whole, most spend their life living in obscurity. You can't expect the smartest anything to also be the amongst the well known, the overlap is tiny. Besides Terry Tao I don't know who else you could say it definitively contains.

That said, no one in STEM actually cares about race so it's pointless to waste time on it anyways.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:19:14 2014 No.6343881

>>6343846
>The irony of all this is that the average "IQ" probably is decreased by the structure of civilized societies in comparison to hunter-gatherer societies. Although the internet and urbanization might actually be changing that.

>Being this retarded.

Actually this whole post is retarded. What the fuck are you doing on /sci/?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:20:14 2014 No.6343882 >>6343873 >verified fact Can't into scientific method. gb2/pol/

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:22:14 2014 No.6343885

>>6343873

>blacks have every advantage with affirmative action, scholarships, increased funding to minority and 'low-performing' schools, etc... ad infinitum.

Once again, you're forgetting about the ripple effect of discrimination that happens today. Remember the massive government handout to white americans after world war 2 in the form of the GI Bill and home loans for suburbs.

Over two million whites got GI Bill benefits and only a little over 100,000 (under a fifth of those who applied!) of blacks got GI benefits. And they were also locked out of home loans which locked a large portion of the black population in a ghettoized situation.

>quite the opposite.

You're an idiot who's never had to get services in a place like Compton or South Central. The schools are more shitty and the public services have shittier buildings and shittier service. It's ridiculous. Then you go up to the San Fernando Valley and it's like night and fucking day unless you're in Van Nuys which is only marginally worse than the rest of the valley.

>This idea that we have to thrust melanated people into a position of ultimate privilege because of the existence of slavery centuries ago, is absolute nonsense!

Who advocated anything about "ultimate privilege"? It's just about recognizing what's been done and moving on from being pricks.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:23:44 2014 No.6343888

>>6343882

What an absolutely sophomoric retort- you can't manage to respond to the central point of my argument, so you resort to a pathetic epistemological fallacy (we can't know nuffin') instead. The fact of the matter is, africans evolved in a different environment than other populations, and display a different distribution of traits. Intelligence, sadly, is not one of them.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:26:15 2014 No.6343890
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>>6343885

>recognizing what's been done

The Japanese were put in internment camps in recent history (1950s) and had all their land and other assets taken away.. where's their affirmative action? You know why the Japanese aren't given shit? It's because they perform well and don't hate whitey, even though they really have every right to. The whole point of affirmative action is to subvert the white population in the U.S. by giving the stupidest, most easily manipulated people more opportunities to be in higher positions.. guess who is pulling the strings though.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:26:44 2014 No.6343891

>>6343881

It's not "retarded". The only advantage is that having a higher population increases the number of people who fall on the upper tail end of the IQ spectrum and provides them with tools and technology created by civilized modes of production.

The average farmer does the same shit year after year. The average 1st world worket does even less and gains his/her means of survival by repetitive modes of production. The average hunter-gatherer has to remember the patterns and behaviors of hundreds of species of plants and animals with the aid of an oral tradition the encodes such information into auto-mythologization of their "lifeworld".

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:27:44 2014 No.6343892 >>6343890 Okay the jews did and do everything you got me filthy goy but I swear, I'll be back for your shekels!

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:28:44 2014 No.6343893 >>6343892 I'll be waiting with my loaded 9mm

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:29:44 2014 No.6343895
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>>6342250
Pretty much this, and I hate how SJW have to belittle the truth and sweep it under the rug because they're afraid it might offend someone.

The truth is, African Americans on average have lower IQ's and worse test scores than whites. At the same time though, blacks are more genetically similar to whites than two chimps from the same forest are similar to each other. The problem is nurture not nature. The sad thing is, we know that it started with racism, giving blacks the shit end of things for so long. Now, whites try to make up for it, sometimes in the wrong way. Take affirmative action for example, it actually INCREASES college drop out rates among blacks, it hurts more than helps.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:30:44 2014 No.6343896 >>6343888 You seem upset. You don't understand science, your argument is invalid.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:31:14 2014 No.6343898 >>6343896 >You don't understand science topkek, and what exactly are your credentials, Dr. Science?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:31:44 2014 No.6343897 >>6343891 Every part of your argument is retarded. You don't understand the things you're talking about. Not even the word Mulatto.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:32:14 2014 No.6343899 >>6343895 The only SJW's that come into /sci/ are the /pol/esmokers who come in crying that our "jewish science" is "oppressing the most oppressed minority of our time, the white man". Go cry somewhere else.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:32:44 2014 No.6343900 >>6343893 Oy vey, I guess I'll just have to put a few more dinars in the heads of certain committees and the ammo will price you out with the 9mm being classified as a public danger only to be carried by good goy cops. Shabbat shalom, schmuck!

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:34:44 2014 No.6343902

>>6343898
It's not a matter of credentials. In science there is no such thing as fact. If you went to highschool you should have learned this in your module on the scientific method. Unless of course you came from one of the backward states that Bill Nye named in the debate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:35:14 2014 No.6343904 >>6343897 Tell me what I don't understand. And mulatto was used in a metaphoric sense against the implicit idea of "racial purity" inherent behind other argumentations.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:37:44 2014 No.6343907

>>6343904

I mean seriously, I can anticipate your argument being "LOOK WHAT WE'VE CREATED" or some rhetorical bullshit.

But realize that "what we've created" is because of the power of structures and organizations and of the persistence of information in the written word to be utilized by other organizations in tandem with numerically larger numbers of high IQ individuals.

Not because civilized life encourages an actual increase in IQ for most people or for those in power.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:38:14 2014 No.6343909

Hey guise, this is what you sound like.

Average western humans a few centuries ago had IQs well below the level of retardation up until at least a century ago. Even then their IQs would have only been the equivalent of a 60 or 70 on a modern IQ test.

Since even small deviations in IQ are genetic (lol) then obviously western people have evolved a fuckload over the last few centuries. We should be able to see like exponential changes in the genomes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:39:14 2014 No.6343911 >>6343904 >And mulatto was used in a metaphoric sense against the implicit idea of "racial purity" inherent behind other argumentations. hahahahahahah you're still using it wrong. Mulatto has nothing to do with "race". It refers to ethnicity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:39:44 2014 No.6343912 >>6343907 or instead of IQ, I should say "intelligence". The the ability of a neurology to process streams of information into useful and more complex models, heuristics, and actions.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:40:44 2014 No.6343914 >>6343911 You're being autistic. When most people think mulatto, they think "half white half black" or "mutt" or "mixture". Not "ethnicity as opposed to race!".

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:41:15 2014 No.6343915

>>6343690
>horrible geography

You have no idea what you're talking about. The continent of Africa is blessed with natural abundance. In fact you can reasonably account for the lack of progress of Sub Saharan Africans to the natural abundance of their surroundings. When food is abundant all year round, you don't need to stockpile, think and plan ahead, or innovate.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:46:45 2014 No.6343918

>>6343914
No they don't. Mulatto is a term used throughout Latin America. It is a cultural term used by people who have mixed black and amerindian culture. This is different from Mestizo which have mixed black and spanish culture.

There is no "mestizo race" just as there is no "mulato race". There are terms like this throughout the rest of the Americas and even the rest of the world. Canada has groups called metis and anglo-metis to refer to people of amerindian culture mixed with french or british culture.

Race itself is an incredibly ill defined term. Depending on who you ask they'll say that terms like "white" and "black" are races or terms like "negroid" and "caucasoid". In extremely rare cases you'll run into people who actually know a bit of genetics and interchange the term race with the rigorous term population. This isn't wrong as population genetics redefines race in a really vague, useless, and arbitrary way; but it can lead to confusion.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:57:44 2014 No.6343925

>>6343918

*sigh*

I'm using it as people in the US use it, or at least my region (California) use it.

"half white half black". Skin color means different "race". If you're not American, you don't understand how entrenched and how retarded our race complex is.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 03:58:44 2014 No.6343926 >>6343925 So I guess my lesson is, "mulatto" was a bad word to use as a metaphor because I had a very provincial sense of the word.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 07:15:45 2014 No.6344075
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>>6343677
Every few years, someone claims that the gap is closing. You know that in the 70's, they thought it was closing too.

This is what one gets when one cherry picks findings. There are 100s of studies on the average black-white diff. in the US. Most of them show no change, some show increasing difference, some show decreasing difference. Pick and choose. The holier than thou people will of course pick the good news. Just like when the pharmaceutical companies ignore the null result studies, and only publish and send in the positive ones.

Useful review of data here: http://humanvarieties.org/2013/01/15/secular-changes-in-the-black-white-cognitive-ability-gap/

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 07:19:45 2014 No.6344081 >>6343909 FLR effect is not g-loaded. Not a change in g. It's test training effects. Cf. recent special issue in Intelligence journal on the subject.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:03:15 2014 No.6344456 >>6343915 that's retarded. everyone read that comment and laugh. on 1-2-3...

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:05:44 2014 No.6344458 >>6344081 color me stupid, but what's a g?

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:18:44 2014 No.6344480

>>6344458
I'm not that guy, but.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_intelligence_factor

As far as the FLR effect, I'm not sure what he's referring to. Possibly Female-Led Relationships. In which case it really has nothing to do with the statement he's arguing against. Sad because that statement is exactly as legitimate as all the retarded garbage /pol/esmokers are posting.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:21:14 2014 No.6344484

>>6342185
Honestly, how can i listen to the voices on 4chan. Honestly, you guys are set on the destruction of other races, and have been since the beginning of time. We don't expect anything to change, and i don't intend on trying to convince you otherwise. How can you provide sauce for any of your claims when they have already been tainted by the people who wrote the history books?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:23:45 2014 No.6344488 >>6343915 So why are people starving in Africa?

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:26:44 2014 No.6344491

>>6344484
Actually, on /sci/ we rely on peer reviewed research and not history. It's the reason we consider people like OP to be retarded halfwits from /pol/. Their arguments are always some retarded feelsy non-rigorous mumbo jumbo. Even when they get lucky and cite proper research they fuck it up by describing it with the incorrect terms and drawing conclusions much stronger than the research itself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:30:14 2014 No.6344497 File: 89 KB, 940x529, 1391743791072.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6344491 << For you kind sir.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:33:15 2014 No.6344504

>>6344488
There are people starving everywhere. Africa is a freaking continent. It would be insane if the whole continent was full of starving people. If someone were to say there are people starving in South America, would your immediate thought be that all of South America is starving? Are you brain damaged?

If you're asking how it's possible that there is anyone starving in Africa then you really don't know shit about the troubled regions. These are regions full of different ethnic groups constantly at war trying to wipe each other out. They are constantly taking back and forth control over resources fighting over who gets to sell them to foreigners for the lowest prices all while the peaceful groups get refuged to other regions. There is a great wealth of writing and multimedia available on this topic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:33:44 2014 No.6344505 >>6342250 'pretty damning' Failed statistical analysis, did you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:37:14 2014 No.6344510 >>6344504 >>If you're asking how it's possible that there is anyone starving in Africa then you really don't know shit about the troubled regions Your a pig. Have fun with your lonely existence sitting behind the computer screen. Good day sir.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:40:15 2014 No.6344516 >>6344510 >Your a pig. >Your

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:44:14 2014 No.6344522 >Obsession with Blacks: The Thread What's the point of discussing this anyway? And how is it /sci/ related?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 11:45:14 2014 No.6344523 >>6344516 *your're...Really?... that response shows how pathetic you are. It appears your mother didn't love you Mr. Lanza, or maybe too much perhaps?

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 12:22:45 2014 No.6344606

>>6342233
Well, he did precise the arab part of Africa, not the rest, and even by that, it was true that during the Golden Age of Islam, that Europeans were living like monkeys compared to Muslims in dirty conditions, insanely retarded beliefs (Like draining someone of his blood will remove evil), etc etc but they still did not live like complete monkeys like the majority of the Africans who were probably still nomad..

On a historical point of view, black people were kind of always inferior to whites, and I'm excluding Arabs (white) and Indians. Scientifically? I'm not sure.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 12:33:44 2014 No.6344626 >>6344523 Who is Mr. Lanza? I don't understand these lel edgy pop culture references.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 12:36:15 2014 No.6344631

>>6344606

Living nomadically is not "living like monkeys". It's an adaptation to a particular mode of production and climate. A "stupidity of monkeys" would be whites building settlements by rivers where the Tsetse fly could wreak havoc on both people and livestock.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 12:50:44 2014 No.6344650

>>6342235
>>6343849

The most impressive black in STEM currently is John Dabiri at Caltech. He's still young at 34, but very accomplished. His MacAuthor Fellowship winning research is some on the most interesting I've seen of anyone of any race, especially the stuff on wind turbines.

Here's a few short videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2audOlniaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnJwz14vdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIyA0eb0WzU

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:19:14 2014 No.6344710
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Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

Thirty Years Of Research On Race Differences In Cognitive Ability
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/pppl1.pdf

What If The Hereditarian Hypothesis is True?
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2005hereditarian-hypothesis.pdf

Is it Really Because of Culture?
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004064.html

Mainstream Science on Intelligence: An Editorial With 52 Signatories, History, and Bibliography
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf

Population Differences In Brain Morphology and Microstructure Among Chinese, Malay, and Indian Neonates
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0047816

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:20:45 2014 No.6344712

>>6344488
Because people are stupid that's why. Since I didn't spell it out in my post and you're too ignorant to tell, I was giving a historical environmental based hypothesis for the lack of technological progress on part of sub Saharan Africans. Starvation in Africa today doesn't mean people were always starving in Africa historically. Also this: >>6344504

>>6344456
Care to point out why that's retarded?

>>6344510
Not him, but how is your response any better than >>6344516?

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:21:45 2014 No.6344713
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ASPM, MCPH1, NBPF15, DAB1, SSADH, DCDC2, NQO2, IGF2R, DTNBP1, CHRM2, FoxP2, EMX2, FADS2, DARPP-32, MAPT, PDYN, HAR1 RNA, and EST00083 are just a few genes that code for intelligence and brain size with alleles that differ between the races. PER2, ADH, PAX6, DRD4, ACTN3, AVPR1a, ACE, and MAOA are just a few genes that code for behavior with alleles that differ between the races.

Ongoing Adaptive Evolution of ASPM, a Brain Size Determinant in Homo sapiens
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/309/5741/1720

Microcephalin, a Gene Regulating Brain Size, Continues to Evolve Adaptively in Humans
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/309/5741/1717

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:22:14 2014 No.6344715
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Every race has an equal capacity to learn and contribute to civilization and any differences are caused by prejudice and racism. The fact that white people are associated with civilization is merely a quirk of fortune and coincidence. Any attempt to distinguish the races is motivated by paranoia and hatred. We must prevent any investigation into the subject and work to melt society together into a raceless, nationless, harmonious utopia with no religion where everyone is high on drugs. The point of life is to do what makes you feel good. You only live once so just have fun while you're here.

Trust me. ;)

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:32:14 2014 No.6344737 >>6344715 I like to think ill be a jew one day.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:32:45 2014 No.6344739 >>6344713 >that differ between the races they differ also between individuals of the same race

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:35:15 2014 No.6344745 >>6344739 No one is disputing that, but difference in frequencies between different populations (what we'd categorize into race) do exist.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:38:45 2014 No.6344751

>>6344739

Race-deniers may point out some exceptional individuals who do not conform to the typical racial pattern regarding some characteristic. This is arguably like claiming that the two different sexes do not exist because one can find some women who are taller than the average man.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:50:44 2014 No.6344771

>>6344745
yes, but then I could say two different families from two different english countrysides are two separate races, if you just use an argumentation strategy based only on genetic sequence.
where is the cut-off, which says, it needs this so-and-so many nucleotide differences to be in a different race than someone else?
even within of races there are strong differences. some white people are inferior to other white people.
>my family clan is smarter than your family clan, has always been, better genes, superior, race, it's genetically measurable, yaddayadda.

there are stronger morphological differences between two more distant human individuals -- and of course their genetic differences are stronger, too.

personally, i give a shit on someone's race, as long as his/her behavior is fine. this is what counts (for me).

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:53:14 2014 No.6344775

>>6344751
>Race-deniers may point out some exceptional individuals who do not conform to the typical racial pattern regarding some characteristic
but that actually occurs
>This is arguably like claiming that the two different sexes do not exist because one can find some women who are taller than the average man.
and that's a misapprehension

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:54:15 2014 No.6344778

>>6344771

Race-deniers argue that using certain measurement methods, more human genetic variation can be found within human races than between races. This has been used as "evidence" for arguments that human race classification has little genetic significance or that race cannot be predicted from a person's genes. Even assuming this information is technically correct it is only looking at a single genetic difference but ignoring that several genetic differences correlate with one another. Thus to racially classify a person by examining the person's DNA is very uncertain if only looking at a single genetic marker which is in accordance with these arguments. But the uncertainty becomes extremely low if simultaneously looking at many other genetic markers at the same time. The same applies when forensic anthropologists determine a person's race by looking at skeletal remains. If only looking at single skeletal characteristic, then the results are very uncertain. If looking at many skeletal characteristics then a person's race can be determined with a certainty that may approach 100%. Such results have been confusing for those who have accepted these arguments.

Race-deniers have invented a fallacy that asserts different criteria can produce different categorization of races, and so races are socially constructed: Race deniers believe there are many different, equally valid procedures for defining races, and those different procedures yield very different classifications. However this is wrong because they are choosing traits which have no racial meaning. When actual racial traits are selected, they don't contradict. These classifications, however, are nonsensical. They are far more arbitrary than the traditional classifications because the traits they single out for classifying have little, if any, predictive value beyond the initial classification.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:56:15 2014 No.6344787
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It is sometimes claimed that the term race only describes skin color and nothing more. When in reality different races differ on a very large number of traits such as differences regarding genetic susceptibility to diseases and differences in psychological traits. Races differ in the extent and manner in which the fine subcutaneous muscles of the lips and cheeks have become differentiated from the parent mammalian muscle body; in the chemical composition of hair and of bodily secretions, including milk; in the ways in which different muscles are attached to bones; in the sizes and secretion rates of different endocrines; in certain details of the nervous system, as, for example, how far down in the lumbar vertebrae the neural canal extends; and in the capacity of individuals to tolerate crowding and stress. Yet despite all this, human racial variation is still marked by obvious differences in skeletal morphology, hair and facial features, as well by blood groups and DNA fingerprints.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 13:58:14 2014 No.6344791
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Forensic anthropologists regularly classify skeletons of decomposed bodies by race. For example, narrow nasal passages and a short distance between eye sockets identify a Caucasoid person, distinct cheekbones characterize a Mongoloid person, and nasal openings shaped like an upside down heart typify a Negroid person. People with considerable Caucasoid ancestry generally have relatively no prognathism; a relatively small face; a narrow, a tear-shaped nasal cavity; a silled nasal aperture; tower-shaped nasal bones; a triangular-shaped palate; and an angular and sloping eye orbit shape. People with considerable Negroid ancestry typically have a broad and round nasal cavity; no dam or nasal sill; Quonset hut-shaped nasal bones; notable facial projection in the jaw and mouth area (prognathism); a rectangular-shaped palate; and a square or rectangular eye orbit shape. People with considerable Mongoloid ancestry are often characterized by a relatively small prognathism; no nasal sill or dam; an oval-shaped nasal cavity; tent-shaped nasal bones; a horseshoe-shaped palate; and a rounded and non-sloping eye orbit shape.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:01:44 2014 No.6344803 >>6342216 One standard deviation is not tiny.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:08:15 2014 No.6344817 >>6343895 >blacks are more genetically similar to whites than two chimps from the same forest are similar to each other Now, to present such an outstanding claim as a fact, you need provide some evidence that isn't from feminist books.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:08:44 2014 No.6344816

why is everyone who expresses their own opinion without providing a source considered stupid?

Has it really come down to this?
>your idea has no source, therefore you're a retarded halfwit

Exchange of ideas is a useful thing especially on a website like 4chan who nobody really takes seriously. People can use those ideas and correct them for their own analysis, study them; a new idea might be able to point them in the right scientific direction.
What I'm trying to say, no matter how retarded the idea is, it might help someone connect the dots and rewrite a better version of it or disprove it by testing it or searching it up.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:08:44 2014 No.6344818

The size of the Negroid brain is significantly lower in volume than the Mongoloid or Caucasoid brain. The size of its frontal lobes are small and uncomplex, and the brain as a whole shows an unimpressive, moderate degree of fissuring (Lynn, 2006a, pp. 210-211; Rushton, 2000a, pp. 130, 133).

Converting brain volume into the number of neurons, Mongoloids average more than half a billion more neurons than Negroids (Rushton, 2000a, p. 133; Broom, 1918, p. 63-79; Howells, 1948, p. 118; Galloway, 2005, pp 31-47). The East Asians (Han Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese) have the highest ratio of brain to body mass, but the record for brain size goes to Russian writer Ivan Turgenev, at 2012 gms (Corballis, 1991, p. 66). The heritability of brain size is about 0.9 (Lynn, 2006a, p. 67).

The ridges (gyri) between the groves (sulci) at the surface of the brain greatly increase the surface area of the cerebral cortex, the outer layer of the cerebrum. Since the cerebral cortex processes information, increased brain fissures increases the percentage of the brain that is cerebral cortex and should increase intelligence without increasing the volume of the brain, although this is difficult to establish quantitatively (Baker, 1974, p. 432). Negroids and some retarded people have fewer convolutions (fissures) in the cerebral cortex of their brains, where abstract thought is performed (Broca, 1858, cited by Rushton, 2000a, p. 106).

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:09:44 2014 No.6344821 >>6344818 if you're going to do this, you need to include full sources, not just the mid-text indicators to the full sources.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:10:44 2014 No.6344822

There are many physical properties of the brain that are associated with greater intelligence. More intelligent brains show faster nerve conduction, less glucose utilization in positron emission tomography [PET scans], faster reaction times, faster inspection times, faster speeds in general, greater circumference and volume, smaller standard deviation in reaction times, greater variability in EEG [electroencephalogram] measures, shorter white matter T2 relaxation times, and higher gray-white matter contrast with magnetic resonance imaging [MRI] (Miller, 1994d). The thickness of the three outer layers (the supragranular layer) of the cerebral cortex (the six outer layers), increases from lower animals to man (Corballis, 1991, p. 67). The supragranular layer is 15% thinner in blacks than in whites (Vint, 1934). The nerves in blacks are reported to be larger (Burmeister, 1853).

The prefrontal area typically constitutes 29% of a man's brain (Herrick, 1956, p. 385). The human neocortex is over three times as large as expected for a primate matched for body size (Passingham, 1982). Compared to Caucasoids and Mongoloids, in Negroids the back of the brain is more developed and the front less developed (Broca, 1858, cited by Rushton, 2000a, p. 106; Bean, 1906; Levin, 1997, p. 105). This is noticeable in the more sloping forehead of Negroids and the length of their skull. Vision is processed in the back of the brain, hearing at the side, and planning and abstract thought at the front. Blacks have better hearing than other races (Murphy, 2006). Thus, a brain that is more devoted to one of these functions than to others will have a greater mass of brain tissue in that area and the skull shape will be expanded in that area.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:11:15 2014 No.6344826

A frontal lobotomy, which removes the anterior frontal area of the brain, leaves a person conscious and seemingly normal, but unable to plan and take initiative (Penfield, 1957, p. 226). That is why Negroids have been compared to lobotomized Caucasoids (Simpson, 2003, p. 705).

Racial differences in the relative sizes of different areas of the brain are suggested by the way smoking affects the races. Compared to white smokers, black smokers absorb 30% more nicotine per cigarette and take longer to rid their bodies of the drug (Dr. Nora Volkow, "News Release," National Institute on Drug Abuse, Jan., 20, 2006). Numerous studies have demonstrated significant racial differences in the metabolism of tobacco-related products (Wilson, S.E., "Study Examines Racial Differences Among Children To Environmental Tobacco Smoke Exposure Cincinnati Children's Center for Environmental Health," Mar. 15, 2005). Since different neurotransmitters in the brain take up nicotine at different rates, this implies that blacks and whites have significant differences in the relative sizes of different areas of the brain. African Americans have much lower slow wave brain activity during sleep than do Caucasians, which also suggests structural differences in the brain ("Slow Wave Activity During Sleep Is Lower In African-Americans Than Caucasians," Science Daily, June 13, 2007).

In our journey to become human, our brain not only increased in size, but certain portions, such as the frontal lobes, the cerebral cortex, and its supragranular layer, increased disproportionately. Also, the sulci and gyri increased and deepened. Other parts, such as the olfactory bulb, devoted to smell, have increased less than proportionately. These changes were greater in Eurasians than in Africans.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:16:45 2014 No.6344837 >>6344650 caltech was called "the whitest school in america" due to their rejection of affirmative action, yet dabiri was educated and is currently employed there. cool research. funny how the /pol/ dump started after this post.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:20:15 2014 No.6344848 >>6344837 Not even /pol/ is denying there are very smart black people, but a handful of intelligent black people does not invalidate this "/pol/ dump".

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:23:44 2014 No.6344859
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Was the human stock of sub-Saharan Africa prior to colonialism really different from what we see today?

How come Yugoslavians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians, and other victims of Ottoman colonialism aren't prone to illiteracy, drug use, violence, and rape?

How come the descendants of Russian and Irish slaves aren't prone to illiteracy, drug use, violence, and rape?

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:28:15 2014 No.6344872
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>>6342185
Do you think the black man pictured here is intellectually inferior to average people?
Do you think that he's a rare exception?

Stereotypes surrounding blacks are part of a viscious cycle that even blacks themselves keep perpetuating, leading to generation after generation of people who don't believe that they (blacks) are capable of being on an equal footing. If everyone (blacks included) all over the world would simultaneously stop doing that it would go a long way to solving the problem permanently, but humans in general being the dumb animals they too often tend to be, it's just not going to happen anytime soon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:33:44 2014 No.6344877 >>6344859 >How come Yugoslavians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians, and other victims of Ottoman colonialism aren't prone to illiteracy, drug use, violence, and rape? are you nuts? they are worse than blacks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 14:42:14 2014 No.6344896 >>6344877 except quite a lot of people from those countries migrated to the usa in the past 2 centuries and you don't hear anyone complaining about them causing trouble there. Even gypsies in US are civilized.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 15:15:14 2014 No.6344968 >>6344896 >gypies in the US >civilized If gypsies were shitty enough for people to make a movie about them being shitty (Thinner 1996), I'd say they were pretty shitty

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 17:25:01 2014 No.6345254 This video speaks about the issue and argues against the bell curve book. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc4xh3L6vvY

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 17:40:01 2014 No.6345276

Stupid arguments ITT:

>IQ doesn't mean anything/not a good measure (already disproven)
>I knew a smart black guy once/look at this smart black guy.
>Environmental/Economic effects (already controlled for but they ignore this) AKA "Evil white man is responsible for poor black man".
>This study is wrong because I say so.
>GTFO EVIL RACISTS

If you disagree with the average intellectual inferiority of subsaharan populations you are ignorant.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 17:41:02 2014 No.6345277 >>6345254 Races are not socially constructed, human population groups exist and have been proven to exist. Philosophy <<<< Biology

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 17:44:31 2014 No.6345281 >>6345276 >not providing any counter arguments >expects people to believe him ok

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 17:45:31 2014 No.6345282 >>6345276 >(already controlled for but they ignore this) what?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 17:46:01 2014 No.6345284 >>6342185 According to IQ tests, whites are inferior to whites checkmate whitey

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 18:08:01 2014 No.6345313 >>6345276 Here are some genius arguments by that standard. >>6342550 >>6343909

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 18:58:31 2014 No.6345372 >>6344606 > Arabs > White Now I know I'm in a troll thread

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 19:47:01 2014 No.6345458

So when genetic engineering becomes a mass product and when mass designer babies become a product, what will be the utility of this discussion about racial IQ difference? We're just going to combine sets of genes and trade entirely new sets of genomes. It'd seem prudent to look forward to that future as opposed to rehashing some argumentation for segregation and eugenics.

>tfw ordering Ashkenazi genes for intelligence, kenyan genes for oxygen processing, asian resistance to smoking effects, and genes for blond hair blue eyes

Yep.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 19:49:01 2014 No.6345461 >>6345458 Although for Ashkenazi genes, I'd have to find something to counter the reduced ability for spatial-visual modeling.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 20:06:31 2014 No.6345491 >>6344872 Scientific data proves he is not the rule but exception, he is also result of mixing making him not even negroid in true sense.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 20:31:31 2014 No.6345530 >>6342250 IQ is heritable, with regression toward the mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 20:50:32 2014 No.6345549

>>6343859
Are you black? Or some kind of social justice warrior? Intelligence cannot be "taught" in the same way that chemistry or Mandarin can be taught.

I'll never be Arnold Schwarzenegger because I don't have the genetics for it. No matter how much I train, I will never be Mr. Universe. Except in special "gifted" cases, individuals of low intelligence (quickness, memory, etc) will never significantly improve.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 20:59:32 2014 No.6345567

>>6345549

Even if there were a deviation, it's not a matter of literal "retardation". As it stands, they do receive substandard EVERYTHING. The only advantage is affirmative action for those who sludge through the bullshit.

Plus your ideology is obsolete. Everyone is going to be kike nigger chink aryan when designer babies kick off in the next 30-40 years.

Plus babying a bunch of "below average" motherfuckers is worth it if you give opportunity to a Leonardo type that is worth more than many corporations in terms of contributions to a society.

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 21:02:32 2014 No.6345570

>>6345567

And I'm going to be laughing if 4chan is still up in a decade or two and /pol/ becomes a luddite breeding ground campaigning against genetic engineering.

"NWO MANIPULATION"
"IT'S LIKE BRAVE NEW WORLD"
"THERE AIN'T GOING TO BE NO NIGGER GENES IN MY BABY"

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 21:46:31 2014 No.6345653

>>6342250
>racial research in Minnesota
still assuming that genes that defines quantities of produced melanine have any direct, or even side efects to what's consider intelligence, that come from multiple genes, and so on

shit, get your facst straigh, do you even science ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 9 21:49:32 2014 No.6345664 >>6345549 >Intelligence cannot be "taught" now that justify why you are so dumb

Anonymous Sun Feb 9 23:46:18 2014 No.6345864

First of all, the intellectual inferiority(that's an emotionally loaded word that I'd rather you not use) of Blacks to Whites & Asians is not disputed. The only thing that is disputed is the cause of the differences. I would say there are reasons to believe that the difference is primarily genetic:
>IQ in general is highly heritable, especially in adulthood, such that there would have to be a huge difference in environment in Whites and Blacks to cause the 1 SD gap or a very specific "factor X" that contributes only to the difference between Blacks & Whites
>The massive decrease in racism has not been accompanied by a narrowing of the B-W gap
>Transracial adoption studies tend to show that the B-W gap remains when White and Black children are reared in the same environment
>Whites do better than Blacks when the two groups have the same SES
>The children of smart Blacks tend to regress towards their racial mean
>Racial differences in IQ are found globally(Richard Lynn has done great work on this)
>The B-W IQ gap has remained essentially stable over the past century

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 01:11:17 2014 No.6345990

No they're not intellectually inferior per se, the main problem I'm noticing from anons a lot is that do not understand all the nuances going on.

The basic gist of it is that blacks on average (emphasis must place on average because it represents the statistical difference) are less mathematically inclined compared to whites and asians.

They are still capable of high manipulation of body movement, social interaction, social organization and tool usage. The issue is that as a whole they are only moderately capable of pattern manipulation. The innate capability of reasoning, logic and abstraction is there but the rigorous analyzation is not as prevalent.

This lack of prevalence means that practicality is a lot more focused than theoretics.

Also concerning African Americans, social stratification did not lower their IQ but it did affect their behavioral patterns. So slavery didn't make them bad at academics but it did make them more prone to criminal actions.

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 01:25:47 2014 No.6346010

>>6345990
>less mathematically inclined
>only moderately capable of pattern manipulation
>rigorous analyzation is not as prevalent

Ergo, intellectually inferior. Good job arguing against yourself.

>practicality is a lot more focused than theoretics

And at what intellectual activity do blacks outperform others? None.

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 01:31:17 2014 No.6346018

>>6342264
the majority of blacks are economically or socially handicapped which obviously attributes to their lack of notable academic figures

without any /pol/ shit, if both a white person and black person were to be raised in the exact same atmosphere they'd probably both be equally intelligent

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 01:48:18 2014 No.6346037 >>6346018 How do you account for the B-W gap even when black kids are raised by white parents in a white environment then?

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 01:49:47 2014 No.6346040

>>6346018

burden of proof is on you, there have been numerous studies that showed that blacks do worse even with adopted white parents and that the top earning blacks still score lower than the bottom earning whites.

I refuse to believe that a race that has been given such a leg up in American society still can't succeed if they were indeed equal in intelligence. AA is a desperate attempt at social engineering.

Not even /pol/ here, black representation in STEM is still alarmingly pathetic, given all those AA policies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 01:51:17 2014 No.6346043 >>6346037 because adopted kids don't do as well even if they are both white. the more the child feels isolated from it's caretakers the less likely they're bound to do well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 01:58:47 2014 No.6346058 >>6346043 I believe that is controlled for in those studies. Or do you have any sources stating otherwise?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 02:05:17 2014 No.6346063 >>6346058 >I believe that is controlled for in those studies. not that guy, but do you have any sources for your statement

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 03:03:47 2014 No.6346108 >>6344872 >black man pictured here Oh wow, I bet you think that Obama is black, too!

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 03:15:18 2014 No.6346122

>>6346010

So do you always practice selective memory or do you just cherry pick statements to suit your view?

Anyway if you cared to remembered I said on "average" meaning that they are not innately inferior but lack the statistical populace to match against whites and asians.

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 05:59:47 2014 No.6346257

>>6343895
>it started with racism, giving blacks the shit end of things for so long

whoa whoa whoa
before we take the "it's all the white man's fault" side

I have a hard time believing its all b/c of the transgressions of white people
For example, take the african slave trade. In order for that gig to get off the ground, Europeans needed to sail their technologically superior vessels using their technologically advanced navigation methods to Africa, where a wide-eyed tribe of West Africans took a look at their superior weaponry and materials was all like "Holy shit. Why do we even bother?"
Surely then the disparity in technology/intelligence/ originally had nothing to do with white oppression

Why didn't we have hundreds of years of Africans exploring the world and trading white people as slaves?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 06:34:47 2014 No.6346283 >>6346108 Well he categorically is according to the 1 drop rule

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 09:14:47 2014 No.6346437 >>6345372 Actually arabs are considered white in the US as well as other north africans. Regardless they are caucasians.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 09:15:47 2014 No.6346441 >>6346283 There's nothing scientific about one drop rule, one drop implies also that one with mixed background can posses minor african genetic contribution.

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 09:54:47 2014 No.6346484

>>6342189
Technically speaking, anecdotal evidence of outliers is not a validation of anything. The only measure of contrast for outliers of the standard intellectual value is to measure peaks against peaks. Examining brilliant individuals of one set is only valid when comparing them relative to outliers of the other set.

Furthermore, why would it necessarily be all people of a particular skin color? Any heritable trait in a group would likely be isolated within a region with repressed expansion due to the lower capacity of technology development prohibiting aggression against more advanced neighboring cultures. Exodus from the conserved region of the trait would inevitably lead to gradual crossing with other groups that would dampen or perhaps neutralize the impact.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 10:01:47 2014 No.6346496 >>6344710 It's poignant how the cited research from credible sources is completely untouched by opponents of the subject. Treated as cognitive dissonance, it's simply ignored because it disagrees with the preference as defined by social peers.

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 11:13:17 2014 No.6346612

>>6346122
>innately inferior

Do you even read your previous post before replying to mine? In your previous post you did not mention "innately inferior", but that they are "not intellectually inferior". Because apparently "on average" scoring worse on abstract thinking does not equal being "intellectually inferior" right?

And what do you think accounts for this statistically speaking worse performance if not innate reasons?

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 11:32:55 2014 No.6346648

>genetics
>innate
these words again
can people who don't have anything beyond a high school background on genetics or biology in general just shut up and admit they have no idea what they're talking about? it makes me physically cringe to read your posts

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 11:35:26 2014 No.6346655 >>6346648 oh and add "evolution" to that list these threads always make me feel sad because i will never get to strangle every single person who misused that word to apply it to bullshit pseudoscience

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 12:10:59 2014 No.6346700 >>6345276 But anon, IQ doesn't mean anything because its pseudoscience.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 15:06:16 2014 No.6346932 File: 46 KB, 300x100, 159.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] African immigrants are THE academically most successful group in the USA today!

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 15:07:16 2014 No.6346934 >>6346932 >African immigrants are THE academically most successful group http://www.atlnightspots.com/african-immigrants-have-the-highest-academic-achievement-in-the-us/

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 15:21:46 2014 No.6346972

>>6346612

>In your previous post you did not mention "innately inferior", but that they are "not intellectually inferior"

I said they are, "not intellectually inferior per se", which equates to not intellectually inferior in on itself or intrinsically or inherently OR innately.

>Because apparently "on average" scoring worse on abstract thinking does not equal being "intellectually inferior" right?

Exactly that's a statistical issue, it's appropriate to say blacks are statistically intellectually inferior. But it's not appropriate to just say blacks are intellectually inferior because it implies they do not have any intellectually superior people, which they do it's just not as many as whites or asians.

>And what do you think accounts for this statistically speaking worse performance if not innate reasons?

The same thing that accounts for other races, demographics, the amount of mathematically or abstract inclined blacks vs. non inclined blacks. If the inclined blacks had more children while non inclined blacks had less then the average would go up. It's not like they lack the genetics to have intellectually superior people it's that the prevalence of those genes is not in circulation as much as it could or should be.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 15:34:46 2014 No.6346996 >>6346972 Oh alright, I see you're just autistic/a pedant. We're in agreement, and I'd even say nothing you've said contradicts the /pol/ dump.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 15:48:16 2014 No.6347020 >>6342248 >actually recommended G/G/S

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 15:49:16 2014 No.6347022 >>6342269 >>6342282 >>6344505 >>6345653 >political correctness and feelings have this much of a hold on /sci/ Sad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 15:57:16 2014 No.6347029 >>6347022 Why are you sad?

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 16:03:16 2014 No.6347037

>>6347022

that's a lame excuse for supremacists that come here thinking they're going to evangelize on other websites.

we have the same thread every time and they always last hundreds of posts because the faggots aren't really interested in debate, they just think it helps their ideology because spamming is going to 'convert' unbelievers or some shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 16:08:47 2014 No.6347044 >>6343677 >human cancer like this anon exists

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 16:10:16 2014 No.6347046 >>6343646 >>6343699 >the infinite excuses of the liberal creationist

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 16:14:46 2014 No.6347049

>>6347046

i am liberal but certainly not creationist.

also,

>responding to someone 15 hours after they've posted

for shame; have the guts not to go into hiding when you're called out.

isn't this back-stabby behavior normally attributed to jews among your sort?

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 16:32:46 2014 No.6347080
File: 58 KB, 408x189, ann-coulter-black-pilot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6347037
do you feel converted or anything? i don't really feel any converting happening in my case anytime soon...
crazy ignorant rambling doesn't become any less crazy or ignant just because it is repeated over the course of a 100 posts

i think these threads are some dumb form of internet flashmob

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:02:19 2014 No.6347902

Phenotype is incredibly plastic

Epigenetics + cultural and environmental factors are to blame

Not only decreased intellegence but blacks also have worse health outcomes than whites, this points towards epigentic and developmental factors rather than pure genetics.

The gap is like 10 points or something, but considering the average black person is 10x poorer than the average white person its ludicrous to discount environment.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:08:18 2014 No.6347909 >>6347902 Well, wealth and intelligence doesn't help them at all. What does THAT say?

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:09:48 2014 No.6347911

>>6346972
Your discounting phenotype plasticity, just because there are epidemiological studies which show blacks on average score less than whites does not support your giant leap towards a genetic cause.

Blacks socio economic inequality + poorer health outcomes would naturally point towards sub-optimal development regardless of any genetic factors.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:10:18 2014 No.6347917 >>6347909 I don't understand what your trying to say

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:13:18 2014 No.6347922 >>6347911 >sub-optimal development Then OPTIMAL development would help them. It doesn't. Explain that, please.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:14:48 2014 No.6347928 >>6347917 That's because you're ignorant of what you are brainlessly parroting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:19:48 2014 No.6347937 >>6347922 >It doesn't How so?

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:22:18 2014 No.6347945

>>6342185
There have been a number of tests that have accounted for yearly income,the other stuff is a lot harder to measure scientifically, but yearly income is pretty easy, and blacks score slightly lower than whites in every category (more if you skew in favor of reasoning, like SAT style tests do.)

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:22:48 2014 No.6347943

>>6344710
It says a lot that the anon who posted this uses a phrenology (confirmed pseudoscience) picture.

Also, in regards to the links.

>Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic
>http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx
Pop-sci

>Thirty Years Of Research On Race Differences In Cognitive Ability
>http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/pppl1.pdf
Psychology (pseudoscience)

>What If The Hereditarian Hypothesis is True?
>http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2005hereditarian-hypothesis.pdf
Psychology (pseudoscience)

>Is it Really Because of Culture?
>http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004064.html
lol I'm not even sure this qualifies as pop-sci.

>Mainstream Science on Intelligence: An Editorial With 52 Signatories, History, and Bibliography
>http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf
hahaha, oh wow. Pop-sci, Psychology (pseudoscience), and from 1997

>Population Differences In Brain Morphology and Microstructure Among Chinese, Malay, and Indian Neonates
>http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0047816
PLOS ONE is an open access journal for primary research. It's 'publish first, judge later'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLOS_ONE
That said, the article itself doesn't actually have anything to do with the argument. In fact it points out that there's no difference in brain size between the samples from the different populations it studied. There were only differences in structure. Which really could mean anything due to plasticity, languages, culture, etc..

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:23:48 2014 No.6347947

>>6344791
This is why anthropology is considered a pseudoscience. They still practice shit from the 1930s. Phrenology is now considered a pseudoscience. "mongoloid", "caucasoid", etc.. don't have rigorous definitions and get laughed out of any hard science paper.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:24:18 2014 No.6347948 >>6347937 If you want a objective answer, then it simply statistically doesn't. "Why" is an opinion; "how" assumes understanding. If you want a subjective answer, then it's because you're dumb.

Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:29:49 2014 No.6347958

>>6347945
Yearly income is just a proxy for cultural and environmental factors, so there will be alot of transcendence between each income bracket.
For example more high income blacks will have only recently attained there wealth versus coming from a wealthy family and therefore the same variables that affect the lower income blacks will have affected them, something like this could easily be the reason for the statistical gap.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 10 23:40:48 2014 No.6347978 >>6347958 So you want to stand on a soapbox. You certainly don't want to discuss things, that much is obvious by the hairsplitting excuses you want us to believe is the "cause".

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 11 00:02:48 2014 No.6348034 >>6347945 refer to >>6343909

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 11 00:18:48 2014 No.6348087 >>6342185 People have a certain IQ, and this is their IQ regardless of their social strata. I'm sorry that this isn't a fairyland where everyone is equal.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 11 00:22:18 2014 No.6348092 >>6348087 >I'm sorry that this isn't a fairyland where everyone is equal. Correct, but phenotype plasticity exists. Something which you are conveniently dismissing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 11 00:22:48 2014 No.6348093 >>6346257 Because the centres of north african and middle eastern culture and technology got fucked HARD by genghis khan.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 11 00:37:18 2014 No.6348110 >>6348092 Phenotype plasticity is statistically detectable, but it is -not- statistically significant.

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