What does /sci/ think about Cryonics?

[Anonymous No.6249550]

[Anonymous No.6249558]

My only hope so far.

[Anonymous No.6249598]

bump.

[Anonymous No.6249607]

Feels like fiction actually.

[Anonymous No.6249637]

>>6249550
>What does /sci/ think about Cryonics?
>extreme cellular damage
It's like ancient Egypt for rich Americans.

Also, pseudo-science.

[Anonymous No.6249643]

>>6249550
>What does /sci/ think about Cryonics?
I think it makes as much sense as to puree someone's body and let it ferment in a big vat and try to bring them back to life from that.

You'd get the same results.

[Anonymous No.6249649]

>>6249550
>What does /sci/ think about Cryonics?

it works. it's the only way to hope to become immortal right now. if I was rich & dying, I'd do it.

[Anonymous No.6249655]

>>6249649
>it works. it's the only way to hope to become immortal right now.
>"it works"
Uh, how exactly does it "work"? I didn't know being a frozen corpse was immortality.

[Anonymous No.6249664]

>What does /sci/ think about Cryonics?

I'd prefer "mind uploading" to hologram fantasy over it.

[Anonymous No.6249667]

>>6249550
I think I'm gonna raise 200k in the next 40 years to do that. I don't fear death, I don't aim to live forever or something: I just want to see the fucking future. I want to see other planets, see alien species. I know, there's like 1% that I will succeed, but i don't give a fuck; 1% is not 0%.

Also, nowadays cryonics has improved from what it was 30-40 years ago; cellular damages are partly reduced, and there's no reason to not believe that in the future these damages could be led to a very low percentage.

It is worth a try. You don't loose anything (apart from money, meh); you'll be dead anyway ;)

[Anonymous No.6249670]

>>6249667

>I think I'm gonna raise 200k in the next 40 years to do that.

Holy shit does it costs 200k? I should rob a bank and suicide after buying this then.

[Anonymous No.6249680]

>>6249655
>Uh, how exactly does it "work"? I didn't know being a frozen corpse was immortality.

it works because there is no tissue damage if you're cryo'ed by pros at Alcor. that's huge. that means that in the future you have a pretty good chance of being resurrected. nothing is fool-proof, of course, but this is pretty close to being 100% preserved.

beats being buried 6 feet underground!

[Anonymous No.6249682]

>>6249670
Well, you can always go for the neuropreservation; 80k for this one....but you know, in the lucky chance you wake up, you may regret the fact that you brought back only your head.

[Anonymous No.6249691]

>>6249680
Yep. Once they unfreeze you, all they have to do is perform the relatively simple task of REVIVING THE DEAD. Your corpse will be in excellent condition, though!

[Anonymous No.6249686]

>>6249682

I think you are right.

[Anonymous No.6249693]

>>6249691
we can do that with small mammals and fishes. within 100 years at the very max, we’ll be able to do it with humans. it's not hard.

[Anonymous No.6249695]

>>6249550
Does freezing yourself count as sex, as in losing your virginity? If so then I'm in.

[Anonymous No.6249708]

>>6249693
I don't think you quite get it. Cryonics companies aren't allowed to freeze you until after you're dead.

[Anonymous No.6249746]

I can't get the idea that when your heart stops, your brain activities end at max 10 mins as I know.

Need at least 300+ years of scientific process to "revive the newly dead brain", and it still got %1 chance. We can't even repair dead memory cards totally with today's science.

But still, noone needs money after death.

[Anonymous No.6249760]

>>6249708

I'm not the same poster but think like this.

Try to Imagine year 10000's technology, not year 2200 and assume that Earth is still habitable and alive. "Reviving a frozen corpse" seems like a nonsense crazy idea but compare today's technology with 10000 years before.

We are underestimating the speed of scientific progresses.

[Anonymous No.6249770]

>>6249708
I do I do. Dying and then being cryo'ed quickly is not much different than being cryo'ed alive.

[Anonymous No.6250337]

>>6249680
>it works because there is no tissue damage if you're cryo'ed by pros at Alcor. that's huge. that means that in the future you have a pretty good chance of being resurrected. nothing is fool-proof, of course, but this is pretty close to being 100% preserved.
Lets just say they freeze you without massive tissue damage (even if they prevent crystals from growing, ice still EXPANDS as it freezes dumbass) You have to thaw out the body, then guess what? Ice crystals grow and all of your cells are again destroyed.
>that means that in the future you have a pretty good chance of being resurrected.
Yeah, you know, lots of religions have about as much facts per their claims as you do.

[Anonymous No.6250343]

>>6249682
>>6249670
>>6249667
The three of you are talking about costs. You do realize that things cost money over time right? If the company goes out of business or if enough time passes and paying the employees, infrastructure, energy bills, etc. you need to remember that you gave them a fixed and finite amount of money. Even if thawing out your head and throwing it away is "unethical" it might happen if there's nothing to pay for it. $200,000 doesn't sound like it's going to buy you decades much less centuries.

[Anonymous No.6250357]

>>6249770
Yep. So - assuming they have the technology to unfreeze you without damage, and assuming you've managed to survive for 10000 years with no power outages, looters, mechanical failures, or anything, and assuming you were perfectly preserved -

All they have to do is REVIVE A CORPSE.

[Anonymous No.6250358]

>>6249760
>We are underestimating the speed of scientific progresses.
And what if science concludes cryonics is a complete waste of time? As in, what if the idea becomes obsolete due to new, better technology?

You really think someone is going to invest trillions of today's dollars into making your fantasy come true?

[Anonymous No.6250362]

>>6250357
you obviously have no idea about the death and process of dying. do u even know basic physiology or am I just wasting my time replying to you?

[Anonymous No.6250373]

>>6250362
he has a point. in cryonics, you have died- no doctor at the time could save you and your body is not functional. Immediately after your body's systems start to fail. You cells die, fluids separate and settle, your body goes through many chemical changes (rigor mortis for example) and your brain? your brain turns to disgusting, un-salvageable goo in about 20 minutes. There's a reason why death is permanent.

Freezing, and subsequent thawing also do massive cellular damage.

Cryonics claims that someone, somewhere, someday will be able to undo all of this. It's like claiming you can unscramble an egg. Good fucking luck.
Donate sperm and write a book you idiots.

[Anonymous No.6250384]

>When Water freezes it creates these things called Hydrogen Bonds. This causes water to EXPAND.

Anyone thinking this is feasible with current technology is a fucktard and should go lurk /b/ or something instead of contributing here.

On a side note: Some species of frogs can live in freezing conditions by going into a sleep similiar to cryo, so if we can research them and maybe inject a fluid that would allow our bodies to be stored at below freezing...without freezing we MIGHT be able to do this.

Id be down as fuck.

[Anonymous No.6250390]

>>6250384
they're already doing this.

[Anonymous No.6250392]

>>6250373
>Immediately after your body's systems start to fail. You cells die,

huh? another dunce with zero knowledge of physiology.

[Anonymous No.6250414]

>>6250392
I guess I have to spell it out for your autism. After your heart stops and oxygen isn't circulated in your body, yeah, your fucking cells die. Good luck seeing the future.

[Anonymous No.6250436]

>>6250414Well if you knew anything about cryogenics you would realize that the point of cooling something down is to decrease metabolism to a point where nothing really "dies" cause nothing is really going on.

[Anonymous No.6250461]

>>6250436
Well, I know they aren't freezing you alive dumbass, so in about 15 fucking minutes after your officially die your cells are DEAD.

How are these people supposed to overcome that? They aren't looking for future technology, they are taking people's money today- What they do now counts. If you're in the morgue and transported in a truck to the cryonics facility.

You're the reason why the fraud of cryonics works. You don't think things through.

[GW Strikes Again No.6250464]

>>6249550
Lets have fun with random shiz
>There was this experiment in which they left animals without a predator in an island
>They ate all the food and starved to death
>The world is overpopulated
>Medical advancement has increased life expectancy
>The mortality rate in newborn children is dropping
>Populating planets and grow an atmosphere on them to grow food would take 1000s of years
>In a overpopulated future, would you be rezed?
>In a controlled future, would you want to be rezzed?

[Anonymous No.6250475]

"So listen to this: let's carefully dry your corpse then wrap it in bandages. The lack of moisture will preserve your corpse from rot, so that in the future when we understand how to reverse the damage your body will still be intact and ready to be revived."

Now just add technobabble and double the price and you have cryonics.

[Anonymous No.6250770]

>>6250475

I'll bring flowers to your grave when I'll wake up in the future.

>Here lays the skeptical anon, who smartly refused the possibilities of technology.

[Anonymous No.6250908]

>>6250770
Where's my flying car, oh believer?

[Anonymous No.6250971]

>>6250461
>doesnt realize that there is no strict definition of life or death at the cellular level.

[Anonymous No.6251054]

>>6250971
yeah there is. When cells are dead, they are dead. Try to revive a rotten corpse. There's a reason why meat at the market isn't alive. Try eating rotten meat while you're at it too. You're a dumbass.

While it's hard to describe what "life" is, its easy to see what "alive" is, especially on a cellular level with a simple microscope.

[Anonymous No.6251066]

>>6250908
They are coming!

We already have roadable aircraft (and a roadable helicopter)!

[Anonymous No.6251081]

>>6249680

Alcor pls go

[Anonymous No.6251265]

1) "Dead is dead" is like saying "shit is shit". You aren't saying what kind of shit you mean.

2) Water that gets cold enough to form a glassy solid without forming ice crystals doesn't expand, it actually shrinks a little. It's called vitrification.

Example: window glass. Unlike say quartz, it is a disordered arrangement of molecules (like a liquid), it only acts like a solid because its viscosity is too high for a liquid.

[Anonymous No.6251327]

>>6251265
Glass is a solid. Also, people aren't made of 70% glass, so your vitrification won't happen, you dumb shit.

[Anonymous No.6251337]

>>6251054
Using the term "dead" is a bit of an oversimplification. Formaldehyde kills cells 100%, but it leaves a lot of information about them intact.

If we are concerned about preserving the individual (especially if we consider printing them a new brain or uploading to a computer emulation as possibilities), the question of cell viability is not necessarily the best question to be asking.

OTOH, if you are maintaining cell viability when cryopreserving, it is a clue that you are doing something right. It means a lot of the same enzymes, mitochondria, cytoskeleton, cell membranes, and so forth are still more or less undamaged. That is a clue that the dendrites are undamaged.

[Anonymous No.6251340]

>>6251327
No, you would use cryoprotectants to replace about 70% of the water to get it to vitrify. Seriously, google it.

[Anonymous No.6251369]

>>6251340
So then you will get antifreeze toxicity
Don't you know that antifreeze has methanol that makes you go blind?

[Anonymous No.6251380]

They should only preserve people with high IQ.

[Anonymous No.6251396]

>>6251380
>IQ
Psychology pseudoscientific bullshit. /sci/ is unfortunately full of this crap.

[Anonymous No.6251406]

>>6251369
LOL. There isn't any methanol in M-22 or VM-1. Try again.

[Anonymous No.6251417]

>>6251406
Of course there is, the "M" stands for methanol in both, see, Methanol-22 because it has 22X more methanol than the others, while VM-1 stands for "Voraciously Methanolic - 1", when they decide there isn't enough methanol in it they will make VM-2 and so on.

[Anonymous No.6251418]

>>6250770
>You should spend 40k dollars on something that you have every reason to believe won't work because hey, why not?

By that logic, I should also be donating to my local church. A lot more people believe that's going to get me resurrected than believe in cryonics.

[Anonymous No.6251423]

>>6251406
From http://www.evidencebasedcryonics.org/2008/07/08/vitrification-agents-in-cryonics-m22/
:
"6. Substituting methoxyl (-OCH3) for hydroxyl groups (-OH) in conventional cryoprotective agents can decrease viscosity, increase permeability, and reduce the critical cooling rate necessary to avoid ice formation."

As everybody knows, -OH groups stands for alcohols, and most alcohols will have toxicity mechanisms similar to that of methanol, e.g. make you go blind.

[Anonymous No.6251436]

>>6251423
They list 3-methoxy-1,2-propanediol

Googled the MSDS and "Not a dangerous substance according to GHS."

[Anonymous No.6251444]

>>6251436
But when it's administered internally in the whole body, the case is another.
Surely it will cause nerve damage.
Also, LD50 is listed as being 2.5g/kg.

[Anonymous No.6251450]

>>6249550

this is technically possible.

Subjects body would not become ''completely'' frozen, simply the whole body system slowed down at an viable rate with the help of machinery. Gliosis prevents the formation of ice crystals. This substance can be filtered through subjects body at a specific concentration to prevent them from forming.

Are you really that ignorant /sci/? This technology has been around since the 80's.

[Anonymous No.6251458]

>>6251423
The OH groups they are actually using are Propylene glycol and Ethylene glycol. Those are low toxicity. And if you read the quote a little more closely, you'll notice that they are talking about replacing those in part with something else.

The formamide and N-methylformamide would be more of a concern by themselves, but formamide toxicity is neutralized by DMSO. The fact that individual components would be toxic by themselves is not always an indicator that the mixture is equally toxic.

>>6251436
The idea with vitrification is to minimize the amount of time exposed to the chemicals at warm temperatures. So whether something is effectively toxic (able to kill cells) depends a lot on how long it takes to introduce, cool, rewarm, and remove.

[Anonymous No.6251462]

>>6251450
>Number of scientists who believe that cryonics will work: 5%
>Number of proven human resurrections by cryonics: 0
>Number of claimed human resurrections by cryonics: 0
>Cost of cryonic preservation: Tens of thousands.

>Portion of scientists who believe religion works: 25%
>Number of proven resurrections by religion: 0
>Number of claimed ressurections by religion: Billions
>Cost of religion: Low to none; donations optional for many religions.

I think this speaks for itself.

[Anonymous No.6251469]

Cryonized heads probably won't be revived, but it doesn't matter. What matters in that the information stored in the brain is preserved, because that information is you. Not the atoms, the bits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information-theoretic_death

The real reason we don't do this is because it violates social norms. It's eccentric and weird. Just that.

It's also completely sensible, given our current state of knowledge about physics and the Church-Turing thesis.

[Anonymous No.6251473]

Even if is possible to avoid damage, it isn't very wise to believe the medicine of the future would be able to cure many death causes. At least near-enough future. In fact, developments in medicine have already reached the point of diminishing returns.

[Anonymous No.6251483]

>>6251469
The real reason we don't do it is because it would use an enormous amount of resources, we don't actually know if it would preserve the information necessary, and we don't have any idea how to "read" a brain well enough to extract the relevant information (and we're not sure what the relevant information is in any case), and we don't know these things so hard that we're not even sure if brain-uploading is even a thing that can be meaningfully discussed.

The cost/benefit just doesn't work out.

[Anonymous No.6251484]

>>6251462
If you're trying to figure out which has the higher chance of being a scam, the implausible claims of resurrection are a hint. Also you could look at where the money goes. (Religion isn't actually spending money to increase the chances of being resurrected.)

If you adjusted for the portion of *humans* who think religion works vs cryonics, the percentage of those humans who are scientists would be quite a bit higher for cryonics as opposed to religion.

[Anonymous No.6251487]

There are actually many factors to be considered. One of them is that DNA is a complex molecule that tends to decay rather quickly. So more than a couple centuries is definitely off limits, even if we disconsider the multitude of other problems with cryonics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_DNA
http://www.nature.com/news/dna-has-a-521-year-half-life-1.11555

[Anonymous No.6251495]

>>6251483

No one rejects cryonics because of technical difficulties. No one sits down to research the thing and then concludes that "current cryoprotectants don't preserve ion concentration of the synapses" or some other shit. Economics are not the issue neither, people spend big money on useless medicine every day.


What happens is that cryonics is fucking weird and if you sign up you'd be labeled a total nutcase and socially rejected, just as if you'd be spouting evolution on the Middle Ages.

Same as usual. We hairless monkeys repeating old customs and behaviours for the sake of tradition and social coherence, even if they are totally outdated by our scientific knowledge.

[Anonymous No.6251499]

>>6251495
>No one rejects cryonics because of technical difficulties
Actually, many do, in fact, apparently many /sci/ers do, haven't you read anything on this thread?

[Anonymous No.6251500]

>>6251483
Depends how off the cost/benefit equation actually is. If it's only a factor of 10 or so, it could reverse if you had a thousand times as many people signed up due to economies of scale. Also there are plausible flow-through effects like more scientists being interested in cryobiology / more funding being available to study it. (Maybe the toxicity issue would be solved sooner because of this.) Much of the cost would come out of the funeral industry and/or end of life care. People would be less motivated to attempt an experimental $500k cancer surgery.

[Anonymous No.6251506]

>>6251500
You didn't attack the technical points raised.

[Anonymous No.6251509]

>>6251499

What I mean is that that is not the real reason, just a rationalization.

We do shit like that every day, without even noting. First make some subconscious decision, THEN find some way to make it palatable to the intellect.

[Anonymous No.6251515]

>>6251509
This is an generic and very poor argument that could be extended to arbitrary technologies. Actually most of the time our apprehension with weird shit can be right, like with stupid scientology.

[Anonymous No.6251514]

>>6251506
Because he believes the technical points are just something we made up because we hate cryonics. (See >>6251509 and >>6251495 )

I want cryonics to be real. I don't want to die. (And also it'd be really nice for long-term space travel.) But I just don't think that it's anywhere close to near-term possible with the technologies we have.

[Anonymous No.6251517]

>>6251487
Are you taking into account the fact that DNA breaks down more slowly when kept cold?

"The team predicts that even in a bone at an ideal preservation temperature of −5 ºC, effectively every bond would be destroyed after a maximum of 6.8 million years. The DNA would cease to be readable much earlier — perhaps after roughly 1.5 million years, when the remaining strands would be too short to give meaningful information."

1.5 million years is a far cry from a few centuries.

Also, they are probably using -5 C because it is something we can find in nature. Lower temperatures slow things down even more. It gets pretty dramatic down at LN2 temperatures.

http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/HowColdIsColdEnough.html

[Anonymous No.6251518]

>>6251514

Good for you. You are on the good track then.

I guess you're one of the few exceptions.

[Anonymous No.6251523]

>>6251517
This study is taking as "readable" as being recoverable from several specimens, and looking through many cells remains to select the best DNA left. While with cryonics most (99% ?) brain cells would need their DNA completely intact. By considering this necessary elimination of the selection process, the 1.5 million years gets reduced by orders of magnitude, again to a few centuries.
And DNA decay isn't a simple chemical equation so you can't apply the idea behind Arrhenius equation. It won't get exponentially slower as you diminish the temperature. And you must consider that the complex mechanics involving among other things the H- bonds of the DNA implicate possibly smaller conservability below a certain temperature threshold. Unlike other materials, DNA isn't best conserved as cold as you can get.

[Anonymous No.6251526]

>>6251517
How fast can they cool a human down? The reason we can cryo-preserve live fish and small animals is because they're small enough we can quickly freeze them, and too quickly for ice crystals to form. Could you - perhaps by running many tubes through a human body - cool a human fast enough that they could be frozen alive in that manner?

[Anonymous No.6251547]

>>6251526
Humans are too big/conduction too slow for supercooling to work all by itself to get you to vitrification temperature... The tissue conducts heat too slowly. I think only very small samples can be vitrified this way. But combo approaches are more promising. Also there could be something we haven't tried yet like threading the circulatory system with a heat-conductive thread.

[Anonymous No.6251552]

I will wait for the brain-upload to a computer or similar.

[Anonymous No.6251584]

>>6249637
>Ancient Egypt for rich Americans
It's not like that at all.

[Anonymous No.6251590]

>>6250971
>Doesn't realize that death is the opposite of life
>Doesn't realize cells cannot perform the basic functions of life after death
>Is actually autistic enough to believe this shit

I agree, write a book, have a kid. If they bring you back with your DNA it's not really you anyways, why not propagate a lineage?

[Anonymous No.6251593]

>>6251462
>>Cost of cryonic preservation: Tens of thousands.
Try hundreds of thousands
>Cost of religion: Low to none
Time is money. Religion is a waste of time. Just go and look at mountains or some shit, you'll get the same effect.

[Anonymous No.6251644]

>>6251523

This source seems to indicate that DNA cannot decay very significantly while in a vitreous state. That would be a different effect from the Arrhenius equation.

http://www.ogt.co.uk/resources/literature/403_dna_storage_and_quality

"In the glassy state, molecules lose the ability to diffuse such that the movement of a proton is estimated to be approximately one atomic diameter in 200 years, thereby preventing chemical and nuclease degradation. If moisture is added to the ‘dry state’ or the temperature is raised above the glass transition temperature of water, movement and reactivity of protons is re-established and damage to the DNA can occur2."

[Anonymous No.6251666]

We don't even know what would be theoretically required to restore consciousness.
Even if all the cells survive 100% intact, it may be impossible to restore the mind without all the signaling molecules.

[Anonymous No.6252080]

>>6251584
Not only it is, but also to some rich europeans, I'd guess.

[Anonymous No.6252481]

>>6250384

Are you a fucking idiot? Anyone who knows even the basic premise of cryogenics understand this hurdle. Don't tote around common knowledge like it's some well studied hard to understand thing with your reaction images.

[Anonymous No.6252663]

>>6251337
>Formaldehyde kills cells 100%, but it leaves a lot of information about them intact.
How much information can you get out of a cheeseburger about the cow it came from?

Your cryogenically frozen corpse will be an expensive frozen corpse- your mind and who you were will be lost.

[Anonymous No.6252673]

>>6251469
>What matters in that the information stored in the brain is preserved, because that information is you. Not the atoms, the bits.
You realize that your brain goes through significant changes immediately after death, right? That's why "brain dead" is a term. the brain is fragile. You'd get about as much information from your dead frozen brain as you'd get from a fresh pile of your shit. Besides your postulating technology that's a fantasy now.

Future conversation: Circa 2600.
>So mind uploading is pretty much perfected now, right?
>Yes, but too bad about those crogenically frozen heads. By using that method it makes mind uploading impossible. We have nothing to work with. Oh well, they didn't know what they were doing at the time.
>So what are you going to do with the heads?
>I was going to get some beetles to deflesh them and make something for Halloween.
>Dude, sick. Can I have one?

[Anonymous No.6252679]

>>6251584
>>Ancient Egypt for rich Americans
>It's not like that at all.
LOL, how the fuck is it "not" like that? holy shit, denial- just because the truth is embarrassing.

[✩✩ tpopz !!54781A6jgXZ No.6252692]

erm, i thought cells other than red blood cells burst open when they are frozen

[Anonymous No.6252774]

>>6252692
yeah, the iceheads will explain to you that, rationally, they will soak the body in solvent before freezing it- thus avoiding cellular damage.

Don't try to point out why they are out of their minds. They want to party with Inubus.

[Anonymous No.6252806]

>>6252673
>You realize that your brain goes through significant changes immediately after death, right? That's why "brain dead" is a term. the brain is fragile. You'd get about as much information from your dead frozen brain as you'd get from a fresh pile of your shit.

Another idiot who doesn't even know the basics of human physiology.

What is it with these dumbfucks posting on here pretending they know wtf they're talking about?! Don't you trolls have something better to do than to showcase your stupidity on anon forum?

[Anonymous No.6252820]

>>6252806
Show me who has the ability to download information from a frozen brain. Go on, post the information.

You keep talking about "human physiology" and how "people are idiots" yet you insist that a frozen, formerly oxygen deprived, brain with dead and decaying cells "holds information".

Holyfuckballs is that an extremely magical assumption you're making. There is no fucking science to be found in your cryonics fantasy.

[Anonymous No.6252830]

>>6252820
>Show me who has the ability to download information from a frozen brain. Go on, post the information.

We can't do that but we will be able to do that in the future. And we might even be able to do resurrect properly frozen corpses.

>You keep talking about "human physiology" and how "people are idiots" yet you insist that a frozen, formerly oxygen deprived, brain with dead and decaying cells "holds information".

There are physicians who have resurrected people who have been clinically dead for over 24 hrs.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/06/sam-parnia-resurrection-lazarus-effect

>Holyfuckballs is that an extremely magical assumption you're making. There is no fucking science to be found in your cryonics fantasy.

You're the worst kind of idiot: an idiot who doesn't even know how little he knows.

[Anonymous No.6252831]

>>6252806
Hi, I'm browsing this thread and am curious why you think he is a dumbass and why is opinion is wrong.

[Anonymous No.6252844]

>>6252830
>We can't do that but we will be able to do that in the future
That statement is based on fucking nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is no fucking research that suggests any of that. You aren't a pharaoh, you will not be resurrected like a slob, nerd Jesus Christ. your confidence in some cryonics shill is embarrassing and sad.

[Anonymous No.6252848]

>>6252831
Because he thinks a frozen corpse's head is exactly like a fucking flash drive.

[Anonymous No.6252850]

>>6252831
>Hi, I'm browsing this thread and am curious why you think he is a dumbass and why is opinion is wrong.

His opinion is wrong and he's a dumbass because he thinks that brains suddenly starts deteriorating few minutes after a person "dies". That's not true at all. If a body is chilled after death, brain cells and brain itself can be kept from deteriorating for hours. He's just an idiot.

>>6252844
>That statement is based on fucking nothing. Absolutely nothing.

No, it's based on science you fucking shit for brains.

[Anonymous No.6252853]

>>6252850
>No, it's based on science you fucking shit for brains.
WHAT SCIENCE? You do realize that science fiction ISN'T SCIENCE?

Cryonics companies literally have nothing to back up their claims. There is no proof that freezing your head is anymore useful in preserving your mind than burning it or burying it in a vegetable garden.

Sure, they are "preserving your head" but where they go too far is claiming your mind can be preserved. That's a jump right off the pseudo-science cliff into utter bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6252865]

>>6252853
>Cryonics companies literally have nothing to back up their claims.

I'm not gonna waste my time debating an idiot. There's so much evidence proving your bullshit wrong that even an idiot can find it by doing a quick search.

We can already do it with some small animals and hopefully we will be able to do it with humans in the future. The key is to preserve tissue damage and to hope we improve technology and medicine so we can resurrect people down the line. That is not science fiction as much as space travel is science fiction.

You've changed so many arguments and positions in this thread that you've lost a little bit of credibility you've had. You're not even arguing your idiotic notions about brain death anymore. lulz.

Go away troll and get a fucking book and read so you don't sound so uninformed and retarded.

[Anonymous No.6252866]

>>6252865
>You've changed so many arguments and positions in this thread

Do you seriously think it's just been you and one other guy this entire thread? Protip: There's more than two people in any given thread.

[Anonymous No.6252874]

>>6252865
>We can already do it with some small animals and hopefully we will be able to do it with humans in the future.
You obviously don't take into account or care about brain damage. Why not study magic?

[Anonymous No.6252876]

>>6250337
They basically fill you with an antifreeze.

[Anonymous No.6252883]

>>6252876
and that doesn't displace all of the water nor does it preserve the living structure of the cells.

Might as well just pickle your body in vinegar. It's probably less damaging actually.

[Anonymous No.6253651]

>>6252883
You don't know anything. Vitrification does not require 100% of the water to be replaced. The amount varies between 30% and 80% depending what you are using to replace it.

[Anonymous No.6253661]

>>6252874
Obviously the idea is to cure the brain damage later. That's the point of waiting hundreds of years, since we don't have that kind of tech today. Did you not study this topic?

[Anonymous No.6253671]

>>6252874
>You obviously don't take into account or care about brain damage.

Being frozen in a antifreeze beats being buried in the ground and having exactly zero chance of begin revived.

>Why not study magic?

Why don't you just fuck off and quit shitposting? I'm not even that guy and I too find your stupid ass annoying.

[Anonymous No.6253825]

What do you guys think is the current best cryonics option? I just wonder why Alcor's full body cryoconservation costs $ 200000 while CI's same option costs 28000...what's the difference?

[Anonymous No.6253949]

What makes you think anyone will even want to revive you?

[Anonymous No.6254198]

>>6253661
Why would you rely on technology that doesn't exist?

See:
>>6252673
>Future conversation: Circa 2600.
>>So mind uploading is pretty much perfected now, right?
>>Yes, but too bad about those crogenically frozen heads. By using that method it makes mind uploading impossible. We have nothing to work with. Oh well, they didn't know what they were doing at the time.
>>So what are you going to do with the heads?
>>I was going to get some beetles to deflesh them and make something for Halloween.
>>Dude, sick. Can I have one?

[Anonymous No.6254226]

>>6253651
>>6253661
>You don't know anything.
>I'm going to pump my body full of solvents many hours or days after death and expect someone to spend lots of time and resources to give a shit to bring my dumb ass back to life with magic-like science

[Anonymous No.6254246]

>>6253671
why are you even entertaining the idea that being a solvent soaked frozen corpse is any better at all than being a buried corpse? both are about equal given the farfetched magical advancements you idiots are claiming will happen in the future.

[Anonymous No.6255824]

Looks futuristic.

[Anonymous No.6256018]

>>6249664
>mind uploading

[Anonymous No.6256233]

>>6251473
>In fact, developments in medicine have already reached the point of diminishing returns.
Citation needed.

[Anonymous No.6258168]

>>6256018
lel

[Installing Gentoo No.6258247]

>>6256018
Is that how it really works or am I missing something?

[None !!BJiYgff8zf2 No.6258251]

>>6258247

That's how it really works.

[Anonymous No.6258269]

>>6258251
No. That's how it would work right now. If we manage to discover what really consciousness is, we can even manipulate it.

[Anonymous No.6259645]

>>6253949
Because I paid to "anyone" thousands of dollars...and there is a contract stating it. The prices are so high not because there is a high cost to freeze you; but because those money are needed for your manteinance, and eventually to revive you. If many lawyers have decided to be cryopreserved, maybe that means that is not a shitty decision, even from the legal point of view.

[Anonymous No.6260248]

>>6254246
>solvent soaked frozen corpse

1. Your body is pumping with 70% 'solvent' already. Meaningless objection.
2. 'Frozen' != vitrified. Get your facts straight. Ice formation is a phase change, and more mechanically damaging than vitrification which involves viscosity of the liquid growing high enough to be solid-like.
3. 'Corpse' has not been defined rigorously for the purposes of this discussion, you are obviously using it to muddy the waters.

'Anatomical specimen' is probably a better frame of reference. The idea is to keep the brain in good enough condition that future scientists may have a shot at bringing the person back (whether that means repair or upload, or some combination of both). Whether it is 'dead' by some arbitrary definition is beside the point -- the presence or lack of information encoding for the person's memories and identity would be what matters. Given that cryopreservation results in an incredibly stable state, and is fairly cheap to maintain, this is a conservative bet compared to many medical options.