Fuck everything else, Transhumanism is the only thing that matters!

[Anonymous No.6107314]

OK /sci/,

I've finally decided to do something about the biggest problem that all of us must face: death.

I've realized that nothing in life matters more than to keep on living. What's the point of working hard all your life and accomplishing something then to have it all erased when your body gives up?

So, I've decided to switch my major and study something that will eliminate the need for me to die.

Which field of study would bring the biggest "bang for the buck" and conquer death? Is it AI? Is it biology? Medicine?

Give me some advice. I'll devote my life to conquering this evil fucking disease called death that most of the people seem to be content with.

Also, why aren't YOU doing something about death? Why are you wasting your time studying something that won't help us conquer it?

[Anonymous No.6107321]

>>6107314
oh joy lesswrong has leaked again

[Anonymous No.6107326]

First, figure out how you're going to feed and shelter everyone when no one ever dies of old age.

[Anonymous No.6107331]

Something between biology and medicine, at cellular/nano scale.

[Anonymous No.6107339]

You can't keep on living and even if you could, why would you? Death is release from suffering, it's the great equalizer. The very idea that you're trying to circumvent it is hilarious to say the least.

Instead of trying to live forever, try to be present in each moment. Practise mindfulness. Then you have a chance of realizing that eternity is in the moment itself and time is just an illusion that your mind takes too seriously.

I know what you're thinking now, "look at this asshole etc etc." so here's a picture of a gorilla to calm you down.

[Anonymous No.6107347]

>immortality for everyone
It's not like the Earth doesn't have an infinite carrying capacity. What could possibly go wrong.

[Anonymous No.6107345]

>>6107321
is there something wrong with lesswrong?
I have an article I'm suppose to read about the second law.

[Anonymous No.6107354]

I've thought about this and came to the conclusion that even if you could conveniently extend your life span by 500 quality years, you'd just piss them away on diversions or sitting in front of a computer.

The problem is neither death nor that life is too short. The problem is we mismanage our time.

tl;dr our current life span is long enough.

[Anonymous No.6107363]

>>6107314

>Which field of study would bring the biggest "bang for the buck" and conquer death? Is it AI? Is it biology? Medicine?

You only need faith.

[Anonymous No.6107364]

>>6107314
>wanting to live on forever

What would you attain from living an insanely long life in this shithole?

You don't even know what'll happen wehn you die; and even if humanity managed to live far longer than usual, wouldn't everyone be dissappointed, if all the effort turned out pointless, upon experiencing what lies beyond life as we know it?

Face it faggit.

[Anonymous No.6107368]

>>6107347

OP just wants immortality for himself so he can become the Lord of Darkness.

[Anonymous No.6107371]

>>6107354
If I could expand my life by 500 years I would certainly work on harder than I do now.

[Anonymous No.6107377]

You'll need a fusion reactor to at least virtually stop death.

[Anonymous No.6107378]

>>6107314
OP I'm completely terrified of death. I spend every moment possible trying to find an answer to death.

I've traced every source of information and all paths lead to the same conclusion: In order to figure out death you, have to figure out life.

Which ever field we use, we need neuroscience, neuroscience and more neuroscience. We need a method to get in there and hack our neurons. Our current tools are too weak, too clumsy:

We need a method to read the state of any living brain in real time (less than 5ms)

They've achieved it in a tiny fish so far at 1000ms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE9mVEimQVU

We need a tool that can alter and influence individual neurons anywhere in the brain in any brain.

We need to develop an interface that allows to extend the brain with an exocortex, and connect brains together.

We need to let go of all these retarded notions of consciousness as an appliance you turn on and off:

http://www.aeonmagazine.com/being-human/will-we-ever-get-our-heads-round-consciousness/#comment-1077328913

I have no idea why no one else seems to be concerned. But you're right OP. Death is fucking evil. Pure evil.

Thank you for devoting your life to it. Stay safe and good luck.

[Anonymous No.6107379]

>>6107314

All good sense. Here's a thought: Why not make appointments to speak with all the billionaires who are obviously doing nothing about life extension technologies? They have the most to lose and all the means of avoiding those losses... so why isn't it happening there?

Prepare to have your eyes opened.

[Anonymous No.6107381]

>>6107364
Herpa Derpa why should we bother with science or anything at all? We're just going to die anyway. Lets all just kill ourselves right now.

[Anonymous No.6107386]

>>6107339
>Death is release from suffering, it's the great equalizer

Are you suffering now? I'm not. Why can't I live forever in the state I'm in right now?

Your arguments make little sense, anon.

[Anonymous No.6107388]

>>6107339

I love suffering. I would rather suffer forever than die.

[Anonymous No.6107389]

>>6107314
> I'll devote my life to conquering this evil fucking disease called death

Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous No.6107390]

>>6107386
Life is inherently suffering. You suffer, one way or another.

[Anonymous No.6107394]

>>6107321

OP here, I came across that site but that's not the primary mover that made me change my mind. I read a bunch of transhumanist books and they spoke to me. This semester I'm gonna do something about this.

Like I said, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, matters more than to keep on living.

>>6107331
>Something between biology and medicine, at cellular/nano scale.

That's where I'm thinking as well. I read some of Aubrey's work over the weekend and I see where he's coming from.

Here's my only question to you: do you think human brains alone will be able to crack the genetic code of degeneration and death in 50 years?

[Anonymous No.6107398]

>>6107347
>It's not like the Earth doesn't have an infinite carrying capacity. What could possibly go wrong.

We’ll figure it out. We'll be like China and regulate births. It's a small price to pay when people will live for 300+ years.

[Anonymous No.6107399]

>>6107378
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssf7P-Sgcrk

[Anonymous No.6107404]

>>6107354
>I've thought about this and came to the conclusion that even if you could conveniently extend your life span by 500 quality years, you'd just piss them away on diversions or sitting in front of a computer.
>The problem is neither death nor that life is too short. The problem is we mismanage our time.

That's not true at all. Your most productive years, 30s and 40s will be followed by a rapid degeneration of your body. That means that just when you've figured things out and can create amazing things, your body is slowing down and telling you you're fucked.

[Anonymous No.6107405]

>>6107399
Seen it before.

He's talking out of his ass. Also he's dead.

[Anonymous No.6107408]

>>6107364
>What would you attain from living an insanely long life in this shithole?

Well, I don't live in a shithole. I actually like the place I live.

[Anonymous No.6107414]

>>6107405
>implying you can experience nothing

[Anonymous No.6107415]

>>6107378
This is what I'm talking about! Thanks for a wonderful post!

>Thank you for devoting your life to it. Stay safe and good luck.

Thanks bro! And whatever I do will be accessible to other people as well of course. Hope I can succeed to save you as well.

[Anonymous No.6107419]

>>6107371
It's naïve to think that motivation is intrinsic. Longer lifespan might make one more patient, but certainly not add to any sense of urgency.

You might even become overcautious because your stakes in existence have increased. As life you're invested in being alive. That life has "natural" value seems self-evident. But in the Universe, life just is, no more, no less. You only care about life because you're programmed to fear damage and destruction because the genome has a good business up and running and damned if you ruin it.

That life has intrinsic value is a biocentric view, and you ought to know how well bias serves decisionmaking.

I too would like more time.

[Anonymous No.6107421]

Every fucking night i get terrified thinking of death, i think the safest way to avoid it is with mechanical/biological transplants, and ofcourse finding a cure for cancer

[Anonymous No.6107422]

>OP's face when he realizes mind is immaterial and therefore eternal

[Anonymous No.6107424]

>>6107379
>All good sense. Here's a thought: Why not make appointments to speak with all the billionaires who are obviously doing nothing about life extension technologies? They have the most to lose and all the means of avoiding those losses... so why isn't it happening there?

I've been reading! But not even they know where the path to immortality lies.

Some are recommending Alcor-style cryogenics, some think printable organs are the way to go (I'm liking this one myself!) and some think telomeres are the key (Aubrey), and some think brain uploading is the best way to achieve immortality (Kurtzweil).

I'm not yet convinced of any of these. I'm thinking about left-field solutions like creating super-AI that could think for us and figure out how to change our genes so we don't have to die.

This is why I'm asking all you guys here what you think.

[Anonymous No.6107427]

>>6107390
>Life is inherently suffering. You suffer, one way or another.

Well, I'm mentally stable and I don't really suffer. I wake up in the morning and am glad I'm alive.

[Anonymous No.6107429]

>>6107422
>yfw there is only material that can mind itself well enough every so often in an eternity
dualists pls go

[Anonymous No.6107432]

Be prepared for disappointment. I'd suggest spending your life coming to terms with death, instead of trying to fight it, because that will inevitably send you kicking and screaming to your grave when you've spent your entire life telling yourself you won't die and suddenly your death looms right in front of you and you are forced to face a reality you never prepared for.

[Anonymous No.6107435]

>>6107389
This is interesting. What do all the transhomos do when the universe reaches maximum entropy?

[Anonymous No.6107436]

>>6107432
Listen to this man, his words are wise.

[Anonymous No.6107437]

>>6107436
>>6107432

Defeatists accomplish nothing in life.

[Anonymous No.6107442]

>>6107421
Not trying to be a smartass but the simplest thing to do is "deal with it." You'll never be half as smart as Von Neumann and when he was on his death bed he turned to God.

[Anonymous No.6107443]

>>6107415

I thought I was the only one who thought of death this way. Your thread really made my day OP!

I'm quite ill in the head right now, my phobia of death caused me a mental breakdown. If I get better I'll be doing my bit with the information mining approach as well as experimenting on my own mind. Whatever you do though, stay away from the hallucinogens, while they do create the sort of effect we should be looking for (altered states of consciousness, new qualia, etc.), it destroys the entire house to find that buried treasure and you become a retarded hippie.

Even being able to see a new color beyond my own perceptive range for the first time would be an awesome esteem boost.

If only we could somehow get more people to see things our way... if the entire world was searching (and not defaulting to feely religious crap), I reckon we could get the answer in no time.

[Anonymous No.6107444]

>>6107443
No shit you're quite ill in the head if you can't grok monism anymore.

[Anonymous No.6107445]

>>6107314
cellular chemistry and cellular biology in relation to the two and then after that mathematics in relation to cellular equations...
Mastering things like chemically creating a state of amniotic homeostasis and rapid necrosis/autophagia and or also either carcinogenesis would make it possible...

[Anonymous No.6107447]

You're all working on a wrong initial assumption that this life is yours to begin with.

[Anonymous No.6107449]

>>6107414

I AM experiencing nothing. I'm experiencing YOUR nothing. I can't experience your sight, your hearing, your thoughts.

Likewise, you are experiencing MY nothing.

We are experiencing eachother's death. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.6107451]

>>6107437

People who delude themselves are no better, and the more they believe they can keep from dying the harder they are going to fall when they finally do. I'm just trying to help OP from suffering greatly on his deathbed.

[Anonymous No.6107454]

>>6107449
You do experience my sight, hearing and thoughts. You are universe just as I am.

[Anonymous No.6107455]

>>6107447

Prove it.

With evidence, not with a thought experiment.

Really, prove it. This would help us a lot.

[Anonymous No.6107460]

>>6107459
Yourself, the universe.

[Anonymous No.6107459]

>>6107454

Okay, what am I looking at right now?

[Anonymous No.6107464]

>>6107459
Us

[Anonymous No.6107469]

>>6107459

We are one doop-de-doo.

Except we're not, if we were one, we'd have access to the same information. We're not one and we don't.

There is a spooky boundary between our consciousnesses. Break down the boundary and enter my mind, with more than just text. Show me the universe. Show it.

I really want you to. Then I won't have to fear death anymore.

What's that? oh you can't. Because we're fucking separate.

[Anonymous No.6107481]

>>6107427
With old age comes problems that are bring you suffering like hearing impairment, Parkinsons, Dementia, etc.

I think what anon was trying to say it that you will eventually suffer nevertheless so you might as well just deal with the idea of death before it happens.

[Anonymous No.6107482]

>>6107469
What was it like being born? Waking up having never gone to sleep?

[Anonymous No.6107487]

>>6107482
I don't remember. Show me what it's like, prove it.

The problem with these "we are all one" things is they're just a model. Same as the big bang. They don't actually mean anything, you can't do anything with them other than douse yourself in imaginary happy feels.

[Anonymous No.6107490]

>>6107487
although that's not fair I suppose, the big bang actually has some evidence behind it and is kind've useful. And even string theory is working towards something.

[Anonymous No.6107494]

>>6107435
>This is interesting. What do all the transhomos do when the universe reaches maximum entropy?

More probable than not there are millions of universes just like ours happening in the vastless space for eternity.

So quite simply we will move.
And by 'we' I mean transhumans in general - the chance of me personally surviving for that long is exceedingly slim.

>>6107314
Biochem, genetics, molecular biology, etc.

[Anonymous No.6107495]

>>6107314

Transhumanism is like using cheat-codes in games.

It ruins the purpose.

[Anonymous No.6107500]

>>6107443
>I thought I was the only one who thought of death this way. Your thread really made my day OP!

Thanks and I hope this thread will inspire more people to see it our way!

>I'm quite ill in the head right now, my phobia of death caused me a mental breakdown.

Sorry to hear that. I wish I had discovered ideas of transhumanism earlier because I would have started woring on this earlier.

Fuck death. Seriously, fuck death! There's no point to it and since we're conscious, we know it's coming and we have to suffer for it. It's always hanging over us. I think losing myself in work trying to defat it is the only way to conquer my own fears.

>If I get better I'll be doing my bit with the information mining approach as well as experimenting on my own mind. Whatever you do though, stay away from the hallucinogens, while they do create the sort of effect we should be looking for (altered states of consciousness, new qualia, etc.), it destroys the entire house to find that buried treasure and you become a retarded hippie.

Yeah, I haven't done any illicit drugs to be honest. Never really had a compulsion to try them. I saw a bunch of my friends get fucekd up on them so I stayed away.

>Even being able to see a new color beyond my own perceptive range for the first time would be an awesome esteem boost.

Oh, for sure! Imagine if we could see infrared, for example. How cool would that be? Some animals can see it so that means we could change some genes and get that capability and our brain can easily adapt (as we've seen with blind people who can repurpose their visual areas of the brain).

[Anonymous No.6107501]

>>6107314

Maybe I'll get into a master's programme in cybernetics. perhaps we'll run into each other at some point.

[Anonymous No.6107503]

>>6107500
(cont.)


>If only we could somehow get more people to see things our way... if the entire world was searching (and not defaulting to feely religious crap), I reckon we could get the answer in no time.

It's not only religion, it's most other human activities that I find useless as well. Anyone not working on this problem is not helping. Anyone with high-IQ should be working on this. People with lower IQ get a free-pass. Why spend your life working on some pointless abstract stuff that will end up in some journal or book and will be read by 1000 people max when you can change the world and live forever? I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.6107505]

Biology?? Medicine?? i think that if you want to live forever that is not the right way. The way that i think is to put our brains into computers or data, so we would't fill a great space in terms if population, we wouldn't need to eat or regenerate, only a source of energy.

[Anonymous No.6107506]

>>6107495

So is science and medicine. And farming. And clothes. And fire. Lets return to the woods.

When I unlock god mode, I'm going to trace this signal back to you. I'm not sure what I'll do to you but I'm sure /b/ of the future will have suggestions. > : D

[Anonymous No.6107511]

>>6107501
>Maybe I'll get into a master's programme in cybernetics. perhaps we'll run into each other at some point.

thanks! will research.

>>6107495
>Transhumanism is like using cheat-codes in games.

at least it's an option. don't wanna live forever? it's your choice. no one is forcing you to live forever. you can even move to country and live out your life in nature if you wish.

[Anonymous No.6107512]

ITT schizophrenic dualists will be the ones to extend life because of a fear of oblivion

[Anonymous No.6107513]

>>6107495
Wrong.
Transhumanism is like moving from NPC to a player character.

[Anonymous No.6107519]

>>6107512

If you helped towards extending life, Mr Sane Person, you'd get to see the technologies of the future. But I guess you'll miss all the cool stuff 100 years from now because death doesn't matter~

[Anonymous No.6107520]

>>6107505
>Biology?? Medicine?? i think that if you want to live forever that is not the right way. The way that i think is to put our brains into computers or data, so we would't fill a great space in terms if population, we wouldn't need to eat or regenerate, only a source of energy.

Yes, I think that's definitely an option for the future! But from what I've read, the complexity of uploading a brain is daunting.

http://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf

Reading out what every neuron is doing and what it's connected to is just an incredible task!

This is why I think that creating a super intelligence and creating new organs might be a better near-term solutions. Full-brain simulation seems like the ultimate goal but how far away are we? 200 years? More? I don't know. I'd like to work on something that I can work in my lifetime and accomplish.

[Anonymous No.6107522]

>>6107512
Only schizophrenic in this thread is you.
You have not provided any logical reasoning why life extension is negative. And you won't be able to even if you try because there isn't anything negative to it.
It's been gradually happening for the last 1000 years and it's accelerating now.

Guess you'll have to learn to accept it. Or not. If I'll live for 200+ years I'll only have to suffer your semi annoying tumult for only 50 or so years more.

[Anonymous No.6107524]

>>6107519
I'm studying biotechnology, goof. Never said life is worthless.

[Anonymous No.6107528]

>>6107505
>the way that i think is to put our brains into computers or data

Wrong. Computers are already reaching their maximum capability and we will have to move to molecular structures acting as computers in the future - which is pretty much biology at that point.

Biological structures are not flawed, they are imperfect but they are not flawed.

[Anonymous No.6107529]

>>6107520

We don't understand the brain either. The continuity vs oblivion problem. Simply gaining this understanding might even be enough to say "well this is what it's like to die" or "here's measurable proof of reincarnation, here's who you were in a past life" and we'd be all okay then, looks like we can survive death anyway.

This generation should be the generation of the first real psychonauts. The hippies have had their smelly hands all over the mind for too long.

[Anonymous No.6107536]

>>6107524
It's worthless if you die, because if you're in a state of oblivion, it's like nothing ever existed. All your life comes to quite literally, nothing.

[Anonymous No.6107539]

>>6107536
I'll take the safe bet and make sure this plausibly eternally recurring existence is as nice as it can get.

[Anonymous No.6107542]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a fuck either way?

Its ironic to me that trans-humanists are so emotionally invested in the idea.

[Anonymous No.6107540]

>>6107529
>We don't understand the brain either.

We do understand a lot actually. I spent last few days reading and there's so much research into brain that we're getting really close to figuring out how a lot of cortical functions work.

I don't think we have to figure out how the brain works right away to achieve immortality. I think if we're able to create more powerful AI, it will help us figure out the rest.

It's all about incremental improvement. If I can live 50 years longer, that means I can spend that extra 50 years creating next life-extension tech.

[Anonymous No.6107546]

>>6107542
so you don't give a fuck if you get hit by a car tomorrow and die?

why are you then alive?

[Anonymous No.6107549]

>>6107536
Nothing for him.
We'll be able to use his accumulated achievements for our progress.
This is why as a transhumanist I don't have a problem with humans dying. As long as they served a purpose they are not meaningless existences.

Of course at some point it'd be impossible to even learn all you'd need in the maximum confirmed unmodified human lifespan of 125 years to serve any purpose but that's probably a century or two in the future.

So for the time being people are free to die. But they will become a burden on transhumans sooner or later.

[Anonymous No.6107550]

>>6107522
There has been no life extension at all, in all of human history up to the present day.

Most of the increase in life expectancy at birth has resulted from reductions of infant mortality. Most of the rest has resulted from reductions of childhood mortality. Most of the small amount remaining has resulted from reductions of untimely death from infection and injury. The tiny remainder is completely accounted for by treatment of other diseases.

We have not made the slightest progress in increasing the longest lifespans, we have only reduced the number of early deaths. As long as we have had the means to keep some feeble old people comfortably sheltered and properly fed, some of them have lasted beyond a hundred years.

Old age is no more a disease than infancy is, and life extension would be a radically different field from medicine.

[Anonymous No.6107551]

>>6107539

Good.

I'll remain crazy and terrified for now. It's kind've a shame really, but then again I'm just a human acting the way my environment shaped me so...yeah.

[Anonymous No.6107552]

>>6107542
I enjoy.
Yes. Period.
I enjoy breathing. I enjoy seeing paint dry. I enjoy hearing silence. I enjoy being.

[Anonymous No.6107553]

>>6107314
>why aren't YOU doing something about death?
As an MD, I am dispensing the fruit of others labour to the common man. So I am doing something.

[Anonymous No.6107556]

>>6107553
>As an MD, I am dispensing the fruit of others labour to the common man. So I am doing something.

Thank you!

As an MD, got any advice on what you think would be the best way to spend time fighting death?

[Anonymous No.6107557]

What happens when you discover proof that God exists?

[Anonymous No.6107560]

>>6107550
>Old age is no more a disease than infancy is
You'll have to read a bit on the subject because by any definition of the word in modern medicine old age is the gradual infraction of bodily functions.

There is no biological clock. There is no expiration date hard coded in our bodies. The damage just piles up with time.

[Anonymous No.6107555]

>>6107529
That's true, but the biological things still being mortal, do you have heard about the theory of quantum computation?

[Anonymous No.6107562]

>>6107513
Transhumanism is more like drawing up a super cool character sheet of everything you wish you could be, and then committing suicide.

[Anonymous No.6107563]

>>6107552

I enjoy being too.

But I also see what's coming up really soon, and the infinite future..as well as the infinite past. I see losing everyone and everything I care about, I see the universe dissolving before my eyes into darkness. These nightmares have haunted me every day of my life. Nothing anyone says consoles me.

The only way to get them to stop is to prove them wrong with real evidence. The only way to do that is to tinker with our neurons. Get the picture?

[Anonymous No.6107567]

>>6107555

I don't understand quantum computation. I've read the articles on D-Wave but they just look like neural networks to me.

[Anonymous No.6107568]

>>6107557

Then we can ask god, can't we?

But you have to watch out, it could be an imposter posing as god.

[Anonymous No.6107569]

>>6107560
Ah, good old crankish selective reading.

>by any definition of the word in modern medicine old age is
...not a disease. But you'll cherry-pick other things modern medicine and biology say about aging, ignore other things, and call it a disease anyway, because you were predetermined to reach that conclusion regardless of what you read.

[Anonymous No.6107576]

>>6107563
>I see the universe dissolving before my eyes into darkness

I'm a trans-humanist and I doubt I'll live for billions of years. I really don't think you should worry about things so far in the future even I doubt I'll see.

It's more or less about extending a typical lifespan at this point - 120+, then 250+, then no aging at all but still death by physical trauma etc.

I'd love to be eternal but realistically that's not going to happen to our generation. So instead of worrying about that, hope you're one of the first granted a bit of extra time.

[Anonymous No.6107577]

>>6107567
D-Wave is controversial. Experts don't all agree that it's a real quantum computer. In any case, it's too limited to solve any problem faster than conventional computers.

[Anonymous No.6107581]

>>6107557
>What happens when you discover proof that God exists?

Considering that our universe was probably created from a black hole that appeared in another universe, I don't think we have to fear god at this point. Even if there is a super-being that can be a God to us, it doesn't meddle into our lives.

Evolutionary record shows quite conclusively how we came to be so i doubt we have to worry about displeasing god.

[Anonymous No.6107586]

>>6107576

Death to me is the same as the universe dissolving before my eyes. Into oblivion, the void forever.

If reincarnation is true then I *will* see it. As some sick terrified alien or something on the last cold planet as the last fusion reactor runs out of fuel.

[Anonymous No.6107590]

>>6107569
Arguing over definitions is not a scientific endeavor.
A disease is a human concept and it can be modified as easily as the topping on a hamburger.

A lot of people think homosexuality is a disease.

The only reason age based atrophy is not a "legitimate" disease right now is because medicine was completely helpless to deal with it in any way until now. It's not a scientific problem, it's a philosophical one.

[Anonymous No.6107591]

>>6107314
>why aren't YOU doing something about death?
>says someone wasting time posting on 4chins
If you're serious about this, get to it, bitch.

Tick tock
Do you hear that sound?
One of these days,
you are gonna go in the ground.

[Anonymous No.6107592]

>>6107442
Neumann was hedging his bets.

[Anonymous No.6107598]

>>6107586
>If reincarnation is true then I *will* see it.

its not and it's an empty hope. thinking about it and believing in it is just a coping mechanism… just like religion. weak-minded people always need something to cling to… a mental crutch.

just fucking face the problem and DEAL with it. find way to avoid it.

humans are the most inventive creatures on this planet and we've found ways to conquer almost anything. we'll find the way with death as well.

[Anonymous No.6107599]

>>6107586
If your body dissolves along with the universe, how does your mind stay awake?

[Anonymous No.6107606]

>>6107590
>Words can mean anything, so I can redefine them to make it seem like other people are agreeing with me, when I'm actually out on the lunatic fringe.
It's more productive to be aware of what other people actually mean by words.

Claiming that we're making progress on life extension by failing to recognize a meaningful distinction between SIDS and heart failure at 87 years old is just bad logic in support of wishful thinking.

[Anonymous No.6107610]

>>6107556
>As an MD, got any advice on what you think would be the best way to spend time fighting death?

Fighting death in general, or prolonging your own life?

Because fighting death in general is extremely diffuse, there's multiple specialist research fields that might lead to decent improvement(many of them focused on subcellular processes), but more often than not they're all engaged in research for researchs sake instead of putting goals and working to them.

The SENS foundation is probably the most scientifically oriented organization right now that have a goal centered on life extension.

As an MD, I'm not actually obliged to know jack shit about life extension technology other than what exists in the field already, in general we use some new fancy stuff but never contribute to its development.

Nothing short of NANOMACHINES will fix aging for sure. On short term some 'classic' drugs can probably add a decade or two.
Rejuventation/regeneration might be worth a shot, but it's so incredibly immature right now, and increasing cellular replaction activtiy also increases cancer risk in general.

Freezing/storing/scanning brains to preserve memory and personaliy(aka: life achivement/sum of a person) for later reactivation is likely the most sensible short term approach, not a guarantee that you will live yourself ever again, but you'll have a thinking legacy atleast instead of a few lines of text and a bank account your grandkids will spend on cocaine.

[Anonymous No.6107614]

>>6107599

Do you really think you disappear when you go to sleep? You only remember a small part of information about what you experienced during the day as well. Does that mean you didn't exist for those moments too?

[Anonymous No.6107621]

>>6107495

two words:

irl noclip.

fucken heretic.

[Anonymous No.6107622]

>>6107610
>Nothing short of NANOMACHINES will fix aging for sure.
I think custom gene therapy is a more likely solution. The immune system, suitably reprogrammed, will supply the required "nanomachines".

[Anonymous No.6107620]

>>6107614
No, what?

[Anonymous No.6107623]

>>6107577
>>6107567

The conventional computers are only the beginning, a quantum computer could solve problems or operations nearly the speed of light because the quantum superposition. At any rate is only a theory for now. (we got out of the death topic xD).

[Anonymous No.6107624]

>>6107610

Thanks! That's actually a very good post and you're absolutely right about SENS and de Gray's work. It's very important.

Nanomachines are also important and I think they might be one of the solutions.

>prolonging your own life?

DO you have any advice on that, specifically? Are you doing anything yourself to extend your own life?

[Anonymous No.6107625]

>>6107606
Words are redefined every day. We live in a dynamic world now.

As for whether we're making progress in life extension - we are.
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-10-team-efficient-method-fat-cells.html

I didn't even have to search, it's an article from less than a day ago. And if I start going back I'd probably find at least one article concerning regeneration and prevention of age based disease for every week, if not any other day.

Medicine is naturally moving towards it at this point. I'm really surprised there are young people who work in the field and are not aware of this still.

[Anonymous No.6107634]

>>6107625
Making what looks like it might be progress *toward* life extension, is different from having made gradual progress in life extension over the last thousand years.

[Anonymous No.6107637]

>>6107622
>custom gene therapy is a more likely solution.
It's also an optimistic future tech. We can hardly do gene therapy reliably as a generalized treatment today, to customize the therapy on a per-patient-basis and then in addition ensure he lives forever due to it is pretty wild.

I was a bit wrong when saying nanomachines though, technically we can reach immortality with micromachines.

In the same manner that a white blood cell can traverse most tissues of the human oragnism, so could ~5micrometers big articficial cells traverse the organism in search for its mission. It is not only likely to be much easier to build them at that size, we could even be able to use them as replacement cells.

And they don't necessarily need to be mechanical in origin, we could do some biological cell reeningeering and get a good candidate.

[Anonymous No.6107636]

>>6107610
>Rejuventation/regeneration might be worth a shot, but it's so incredibly immature right now, and increasing cellular replaction activtiy also increases cancer risk in general.

Yeah, that's the only reason we don't have regenerative technology available to the public even though great headway has been made in the last decade.

I'm really disgusted with this personally, you'd think there would effective targeted cancer drugs at this point with all the money people keep pouring in the field.

[Anonymous No.6107639]

>>6107314
I'm glad to see people like you, OP. I'd suggest you something between neuroscience and cybernetic. Develop intelligent nanotechnologies or viruses capable to repair tissues will require more time than just knowing how brains work and move its informations, imho.

By the way, i don't see why people (i doubt that we'll be them, but, who knows) who will achieve biological immortality should die for accident or for trauma. Our brain could be substituted with a mechanical one, and the information in it, in case of sudden death, could be sent via wireless to a database and then put in another body.

Finally OP, check out the 2045 program, that russian millionaire seems mad enough to be serious.

[Anonymous No.6107673]

>>6107624
>DO you have any advice on [prolonging your own life]
Awareness of symptoms, regular checkups, active lifestyle not associated with injury and death(going to gym is good, wingsuit gliding probably not).

Being aware of family history can be good too, if you have several cancer or sudden cardiac deaths in relatives history, it might be worthy of further investigation.

Oh, and trust yourself more than the medical system, get a second opinion if you feel something is serious but being ignored.

Lifestyle is the most important factor you can influence, stay fit, don't smoke, moderate drinking and so on

[Anonymous No.6107686]

>>6107637
I don't agree with your microtechnology/nanotechnology distinction. By the definition I'm familiar with, nanotechnology is technology built to roughly-nanometer precision (atomic precision), not whole devices on the nanometer scale (which would make them moderately-sized molecules, not complex devices).

A cell-sized robot capable of complex function would have to be nanotechnology. Microtechnology would be more like a transistor the size of a cell: familiar old stuff.

Computer chips are getting close to being nanotechnology now. Intel's just getting ready to sell chips produced on a 14 nm process, so there are just two more orders of magnitude until they're atomic-precision.

Anyway, I don't really see how nanotech robot submarines are supposed to be some kind of miraculous cure-all. Doing nanosurgery on every cell in the human body isn't ever going to be feasible.

You're going to have to reprogram the cells themselves, to add more maintenance, more error-checking and correction, more perfect regeneration of damaged portions.

You might get a lot more life for someone by, for instance, doing high-precision robotic surgery to transplant the brain into a cloned young body and hook up all the nerves, and by weeding out brain tumors, and keeping the circulatory system healthy, but those brain cells are going to go on dying unless you change the way each one maintains itself.

[Anonymous No.6107699]

>>6107673
Thank you!!! Much appreciated!

[Anonymous No.6107705]

>>6107686
>A cell-sized robot capable of complex function would have to be nanotechnology.

Depends on intended function and whatnot, you could also transplant machinery from biological cells.

>You're going to have to reprogram the cells themselves
Yes obviously the cells need to be autonomous, as you'll need them in the hundreds of millions, but with internal logic never found in normal cells your artificial micromachine cells could clear up neoplasms in a fashion that makes antibodies look like carpet bombings. But with simple logic-based deliver commands in cells that can't even replicate by themself you can still do a very large amount of life saving procedures, give posion to cancer, release insuling based on blood sugar, and the most versatile; dumping genetic signals and payloads into already existing cells.

[Anonymous No.6107713]

>this thread

[Anonymous No.6107714]

So I've been thinking...

What dictates the lifespan of any organism in existance? Not size, not diet, but a strand of DNA, an entire chromosome even.

What if we narrowed down the DNA strand and inserted it into a virus?

Why a virus? Because viruses are the easiest way to spread DNA. A virus is sometimes blamed to be the reason why mankind recieved intellegence and moved from Neandertall, Cronos Magnum, Homo Saipen, etc.

If we indentified that single strand of DNA in a human, and multiplied it's 'power' infinately. Forcing homostasis to continue forever, disallowing the organism from dying from aging out.

So if you stayed healthy and out of danger, you could, in theory, live forever. By cancelling out the aging process.

The genetically engineered product (The Immortal) is not immune to the following but not limited to.

>Automotive Accidents
>Murder
>Disease
>Height
>Temperature
>Poison/Toxin
>Acids
>Radiation

What do you think? Flaws spotted? It would of course require years of research, but I'm sure with the right finding it'll pull through.

[Anonymous No.6107727]

>>6107314
How old are you OP? Just curious

[Anonymous No.6107731]

>>6107714
See >>6107639

There's already some research about it, but i agree, it will take a relatively long time.

[Anonymous No.6107735]

>>6107714
With a perfect genome you would of course have biological immortality.

The problem is reaching that perfect genome. There's a VERY large amount of DNA setups to try to find the right one.
But at the end of the day, sure you could be immune to all disease and survive 50 C body temperature like a walk in the park.

[Anonymous No.6107736]

Personally I am content on a compromise which will atleast partially preserve my being and that is reproduction.

Yeah my conciousness will be gone but my genes will carry on, constantly reforming and evolving ensuring no stagnation will occur.

Sure it would be nice to live forever but seeing as that is unlikely to happen, the only thing that lessens my fear of death is that a part of me lives on and continues where I left off.

[Anonymous No.6107739]

>>6107727
>implying you don't want to lure OP into your sex dungeon with promises of "immortality research"

[Anonymous No.6107745]

>>6107639
Thank you for your post!

Starting from the bottom, I have looked at Dmitry Itskov's plan and it is interesting but I'd like to live in my biological form and not inside a computer until we're way more advanced. I think modifying our DNA and replacing organs as needed (by using printed ones from stem cells for example), is a lot more sensible in the near term. Reprogramming our DNA so it doesn't age is one of the most promising things yet. Scientists have extended lives of worms several fold and extended lives of mice by more than 50% which is what I think is the way to go right now.


> I'd suggest you something between neuroscience and cybernetic. Develop intelligent nanotechnologies or viruses capable to repair tissues will require more time than just knowing how brains work and move its informations, imho.

The more I'm looking at this the more I'm thinking along these lines as well. If we had a super-powerful AI mind, I think we could solve our life-extension issues quite quickly. We could feed the artificial brain all the data we have and it could fairly quickly reason & tell us what to do. Using our human brain takes way too long! We're so damn slow. If we had a super-intellect, it would crack the code much, much faster. And best of all, I think it's achievable to build one in less than 20 years time.

[Anonymous No.6107743]

>>6107727

6107714 here.

My idea differs from his, but I most certainly see the correlation.

[Anonymous No.6107747]

>>6107714
Please stop. Your post reeks of a high school dropout.

[Anonymous No.6107752]

>>6107713
fake quote is fake.

[Anonymous No.6107757]

Are transhumanists the modern equivalent of alchemists?

[Anonymous No.6107759]

>>6107747

What's the major turnoff with my post?
Anything to say?
Any real reasons?
Name a few and I'll take that response as a legitimate one.

[Anonymous No.6107760]

Those with a fear of death are working at the wrong scale. You are like a cell in the body wishing they were an immortal cancer cell, forgetting that cancer kills the overall organism. Instead, work toward the immortality of the overall organism: human culture and society. The easiest is to procreate and teach your children well. At a higher level, work toward a healthier society: art, science, technology, education, politics.

There is indeed a good reason to study longer lifespans, so we are motivated to tackle problems that take centuries to solve. Like terraforming, space settlement, and interstellar travel. But I'm not sure extending biological lifespans is the right direction. In my opinion, it is better to advance artificial intelligence and move culture off the biological substrate to something more durable and easier to back up.

[Anonymous No.6107763]

>>6107714
>What if we narrowed down the DNA strand and inserted it into a virus?

Worm's life was doubled not too long ago:

http://www.ted.com/talks/cynthia_kenyon_experiments_that_hint_of_longer_lives.html

Lives of mice were also extended by a simple gene change.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/press-releases/2013/single-gene-change-increases-mouse-lifespan-by-20-percent.html

Calorie restriction also plays a role in longevity.


>>6107727
I just turned 20 this month.

[Anonymous No.6107768]

>>6107757
>>6107757
>Are transhumanists the modern equivalent of alchemists?

How can you compare science with alchemy?

Modern-day alchemy are all those charlatans you see on late-night TV selling all those bullshit programs that make you look younger.

[Anonymous No.6107777]

>>6107757
Are you suggesting they have any degree of competence?

>>6107768
>transhomeopathieism
>science
>mfw

[Anonymous No.6107785]

>>6107757
You are probably thinking of the quest for the Philosopher's Stone, which granted immortality. Yes and no.

I think OP and brain freezers are like alchemists, wanting to use tech tricks to extend their own life. But there are other transhumanists who just want to improve the life they have. Things like extended senses, bionic organs and limbs, and direct computer interfaces. Those type of transhumanists get more of my respect.

(And then there are those who want fur and a tail...)

[Anonymous No.6107790]

>>6107785
Er, that was to transmute lead into gold.

The Fountain of Youth is immortality.

[Anonymous No.6107797]

>>6107785
>And then there are those who want fur and a tail
>implying they don't have the right idea
Imagine boning a chick, who can tickle your asshole with her bushy tail.

[Anonymous No.6107800]

>>6107757
Turning base metal into gold is possible. also many alchemists were experts in other fields.

Tranhumanism is impossible and these guys are just basement dwellers whose smattering consists of pop science, wikipedia, science fiction, and video games.

[Anonymous No.6107801]

>Life extension as alchemy…

topkek!

people who don't see a trend are just plain dumb.

[Anonymous No.6107804]

>What is evolution

[Anonymous No.6107809]

>>6107785
I'm a transhumanist just because thinking that i'll never see future discoveries (especially in astrophysics and such) makes me feel bad. I know that at the 99% i won't see them anyway, but that 1% is still enough for me.

[Anonymous No.6107814]

>>6107785
>brain freezers are like alchemists
You mean a predecessor to a real and viable science?
Also, "brain freezers" are decent candidates for brain scanning operations. Then on the other hand, so is formaldehyde conserved brains.

With a good neuroscience knowledge and good data from a human mind, you can recreate both personality and memory.

Is this alchemy? Or just a desire to not throw away a life worth of subjective experience.

[Anonymous No.6107826]

>>6107801
>thinks medicine is magic that gets better indefinitely
>doesn't know what the Hayflick limit is

[Anonymous No.6107847]

>>6107826
The Hayflick limit is actually a defense mechanism to prevent tumorogenesis.

If you think that's the MOST HARDEST IMPASSIBLE INDESTRUCTIBLE etc WALL for life extension - guess what - mice and other test animals have been engineered to have no Hayflick limit. Self repairing telomers are old news.

btw It didn't help they still died.

[Anonymous No.6107878]

You are not deep for having discovered the fact that you're gonna die some day. Please go be an edgy 12 year old somewhere else. Nobody cares about your fantasy worlds. This is a science board and not your facebook wall. Come back when you have actual education. The anti-scientific escapism in this thread is truly upsetting.

[Anonymous No.6107891]

Why is it only the uglies who are obsessed with living forever?

[Anonymous No.6107898]

>>6107847
You showed a stupid graphic that implies cells are naturally immortal. If you're going to disregard any naturally occurring lifetime limiters in the human body and think you'll live forever via sheer force of bullshit, prepare for disappointment.

>>>Mice died, LOL, telomeres mean nothing

>Telomere shortening may also prevent the development of cancer in human aged cells by limiting the number of cell divisions.
>However, shortened telomeres impair immune function that might also increase cancer susceptibility
>Telomere shortening may prevent the development of cancer
>shortened telomeres impair immune function, which might also increase cancer susceptibility
>shorten telomeres, prevent cancer
>shorten telomeres, increase risk of cancer, fucks up the immune system

There's something really screwy happening here. Have fun trying to figure it out before you die, faggot.

[Anonymous No.6107903]

>>6107878
>You are not deep for having discovered the fact that you're gonna die some day

[Anonymous No.6107952]

>>6107898
It wasn't me retard why do you think tehre is only one guy in the thread arguing your bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6107958]

>>6107952
I wasn't even talking to you.

[Anonymous No.6107967]

>>6107891
huh?

[Anonymous No.6107972]

>>6107785
>I think OP and brain freezers are like alchemists, wanting to use tech tricks to extend their own life.
>tricks

>using what nature gave you to do nature intended you to do - live longer
herp da fucking derp

This isn't trickery. This is evolution.

[Violent Simians Guy No.6108082]

We're not going to get anywhere by obeying the rules laid down by Western culture. Stop playing it safe. Take risks, even what's commonly considered insane biochemical risks. We're not going to get life extension by endless studying. The super-solider serum will be made when some Erskine simply finds some Steve Rogers and just injects him and then hits him with the Vita-rays. Biology runs on trial and error. So you'll have to pardon the fanboy angle I took there.

Look, I've said it many times: If I get cancer, I'll sign up for the most radical of experimental procedures that anyone out there is offering. I'll be dead anyway, odds are, so what do I have to lose? Gains come from risk, not playing it safe.

[Violent Simians Guy No.6108090]

>>6107847

So? Addressing the Hayflick limit is part of the puzzle. You'll have to do it anyway, so come up with the solution method anyway, then file it away for future use, since the plan is to use some combination of methods to perform some useful life extension. Adding 20 more useful years to a person's life is nearly invaluable today. Why can't people see that as a project goal? It's fucking obvious.

[Anonymous No.6108094]

telomeres

[Anonymous No.6108099]

Whatever will make you very wealthy. Normal things like doctor won't do it you need to be a $100 million + rich guy then hire multiple people who are smarter than you to do the research for you, or you can turn to groups already doing this and buy from them. Independent research would be stupid if you're interested in keeping yourself from dying, and honestly that's the only reason I see for wanting to stop dying as death is not a problem for society, only individuals and would likely fuck everything up if everyone could live to a thousand.

[Anonymous No.6108135]

>>6108094
Apoptosis

[Anonymous No.6108238]

>>6108099
What's interesting is that people in this thread think the research isn't being done already.

It would benefit from more scientists and more money though, I wouldn't argue on that point.

>>6108135
Interesting bit of information : apoptosis not working fast and well enough is one of the reasons people "age".

[Anonymous No.6108275]

Consider what a solution might look like: giant robotic biology labs cloning your cells and doing trillions of experiments on them in parallel, huge supercomputers in space (because they need 100 GW power sources and space solar is the cheapest way to provide it) running simulations and refining models, hair thin probes worming their way through your body to sample cells, administer drugs, or remove tiny tumors before they can grow into anything dangerous, dozens of cybernetic implants to monitor and maintain your condition, and a careful succession of hundreds of tailored infections by custom viruses, reprogramming your cells to make your body into a maintainable system over the course of years.

My point is that work in almost any technical field, and in many non-technical ones, could be essential to achieving this goal.

[Anonymous No.6108287]

>>6108275
Well from the "escape velocity" point of view - which is lengthening life expectancy for OUR generation the most help you could do is go in the biomed/genetics fields.

It's the urgency factor OP was looking for I think.

[Anonymous No.6108297]

>>6108287
What makes you think this couldn't all happen in our generation?

What makes you think you can get significant life extension without going to these extremes?

[Anonymous No.6108303]

Everyone in this thread (including me) will be dead a hundred years from now

deal
with
it

[Anonymous No.6108305]

>>6108303
Not me. I'm gonna be a brain in a jar, with spider legs and a penchant for doing mechanical things to teenage girls.

[Anonymous No.6108306]

>>6107314
>Report submitted! This window will close in 3 seconds...

>>>/x/