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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6070063 No.6070063[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

So, I am right now confused as racists link me to scientific journals and stuff to prove that "Europeans are smarter than Africans and it's because of genetic reasons"

I would like /sci/ to debunk all their shit?

They linked me here among other links:
>Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

Does this prove anything? If you tell me to go to other board then I'll just assume you can't debunk it and that racists are right. Hopefully you will show me the light.

>> No.6070071

99% of the time the journals don't even support what the racists believe. They are not smart enough to read scientific literature.

That link is also an astroturf website that mostly just links Rushton. Rushton was a PSYCHOLOGIST in the 70s with no education in biology, especially not genetics. Genetics in the 70s and 80s were learning the truth about our genetic diversity and human evolution, and ultimately disproved the concept that races are somehow genetically better than one another

>> No.6070079
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6070079

Nope.

> Genome-wide association studies establish that human intelligence is highly heritable and polygenic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21826061

> Childhood intelligence is heritable, highly polygenic and associated with FNBP1L
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2012184a.html

> Intelligence is still heritable
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/06/intelligence-is-still-highly-heritable/

>> No.6070080

>>6070071
I was hoping for something more than 'I do not like that'.

Maybe we could post a few links that show evidence to the contrary? I mean, the racists are wrong so there must be dozens of truthful ones for every one of their wrong ones. Right?

This should be an easy slam dunk for us. The truth has to be easier to prove than a falsehood.

>> No.6070089

>>6070079
That can't be right. It has to be environmental, if there is any difference at all. To suggest that intelligence is heritable suggests that racists are right.

>> No.6070086

>>6070079
The question is not whether or not intelligence is heritable. That part is obvious: intelligence has genetic contributions.

Your argument is that somehow other races have "worse genetics."

The truth is we all have roughly the same genetics. Humans have extremely low genetic diversity and are all extremely related to each other. This means we all have roughly the same genetic contribution to intelligence, especially since it is a highly polygenic trait.

>> No.6070090

>>6070080
>0
> >>6070071
http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1435.html

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1455.html

>> No.6070092

>>6070063
>"Europeans are smarter than Africans and it's because of genetic reasons"

The differences between Europeans and Africans are largely environmental, this is confirmed by studies on immigrants. I'll dig go dig up some sources.

>> No.6070093

>>6070089
Nice samefagging. It's become obvious that this is just another stormfront raid.

Get an education.

>> No.6070097

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1435.html

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1455.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14655871

http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/R2/R134.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1288178/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982205002095

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/277/1678/131.short

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168952510000788

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2012/120302.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1288178/

http://phys.org/news183278038.html

>> No.6070099

>>6070093
OP here, this is my first reply to my own thread

So far I think anti-racist are winning but let's see

>> No.6070096

>>6070086
OK, so there is no variability between race. Sure, IQ is heritable. But that means nothing because the original stock is the same. African Americans are just as likely to have a high IQ as whites are, just that their kids are likely to inherit that IQ trait as well.

Right?

>> No.6070102
File: 31 KB, 876x583, samefag_3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6070102

>Gaston: Hey handsome dude i sure look handsome, right?
>Totally not Gaston: Yeah dude you look totally rad

>> No.6070103

>>6070093
I'm not sure what you mean by 'samefagging'. I'd think it pretty obvious that the posts asking for proof that racists are wrong would be me.

Do i need to sign them or something?

>> No.6070105
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6070105

>>6070093
What the hell is stormfront? To be honest, I come from reddit.
But how does your group affilitation affect if what you say is true? That's just ad hominem. You should know better.

>> No.6070112
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6070112

>>6070099
>So far I think anti-racist are winning
It's supposed to be a DISCUSSION, not a competition.

This is why /pol/ keeps getting b& from /sci/.

>>6070105
>I come from reddit.
Nigger, I'm looking at the /pol/ thread right now.

>> No.6070114

Read:
The Bell Curve

>> No.6070119
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6070119

>>6070105
Oh, no! The stormfags posted another picture!

If only they could read so all the scientific literature and evidence posted against them would make them see the truth.

>> No.6070121

>>6070112
OP here again

I am not /pol/, I usually browse /vp/ actually

I am not racist and I want to see racist delusion shattered, that's all

>> No.6070123

>>6070112
Then you should know the reason of the creation of this thread.

>> No.6070125

>>6070112
A discussion implies both sides have valid points and adequate knowledge of the subject.

The debate of racism was settled 40 years ago when we started studying human genetics and evolution.

>> No.6070128
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6070128

>>6070092

Ok, so here we go. It's kind of over-simplifying, but you'll get the idea

So basically, you start with the first-gen immigrants (fresh off the boat) and their scores are terrible.

>> No.6070132

>>6070128
>g

Rushton shill detected.

>> No.6070133

>>6070125
I beg to differ. I have evidence to prove you wrong, but it will derail this thread. Do you want to continue?

>> No.6070131

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intelligence

The tl;dr version:

In individuals IQ appears to be more heritable than environmental. There are significant race differences in IQ. We don't yet know fully how much this can be ascribed to environment and how much to nature.

Having said that, although it's an open question, there's not a whole lot of evidence that natural equality is automatically the more plausible assumption.

>> No.6070134

>>6070128

But then you look at their kids, and their scores go up, even though there's still quite a bit of difference.

>> No.6070139

>>6070131
see
>>6070086

>> No.6070140
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6070140

>>6070134

Forgot my pic

>> No.6070138

>>6070121
I'm IN the fucking /pol/ thread right now.

You posted the exact same thing in /pol/ just a moment ago.
If you're going to try and have this discussion here, you should at least drop the pretense.

>>6070125
>A discussion implies both sides have valid points and adequate knowledge of the subject.
Shut the fuck up, you're just as bad as the people you're mocking. A "debate" implies both sides have valid points. What you're describing is inherently. A "discussion" just needs a willingness to converse and exchange information, which you clearly don't have.

>> No.6070142

>>6070138

>>6070071
>>6070086
>>6070097

>> No.6070147

>>6070086
>Humans have extremely low genetic diversity and are all extremely related to each other

This means nothing to the debate. You know that organ transplants are more likely to succeed if both donor and recipient are from the same racial group. You know that different racial groups have different genetic propensities to diseases. In other words, there are enough differences to be consequential, the question is whether the consequences might also be found in things like IQ distribution.

>> No.6070145
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6070145

>>6070140

And they you look at the kids of their kids, and the difference is even smaller

This is from test in the UK for 7 year olds

>> No.6070149

>>6070147

>>6070086

>> No.6070156

>>6070131

Now hold on here. This guy:

>>6070097

Seemed to be saying that isn't the case. Or at least that is what I took his post to be about (from the title).

I've only scanned over about half of the links (obviously no time to fully read) but they seem to be saying 'there is DNA, we inherit it, but variation is not that huge, see how they move through groups/geography/time'. Which I didn't think really made a good argument in support of the no difference in race issue.

Is there a difference or not? Is it environmental (perhaps cultural) or is it genetic/inherited?

(and no, i am not OP, though I have posted a number of times in this thread. Really wish there were in thread ID)

>> No.6070157

>>6070147
Non sequetor

Immunology is based on individual genetics.

>> No.6070150

>>6070142
You can't just drop a bunch of sources on someone and expect it to do any good. You need to actually provide interpretation of what's being posted while high-lighting the important parts.

If you want to actually have a discussion with these people, you need to treat it like a scientific paper. What you've done is just unhelpful.

>> No.6070151

>>6070134
>>6070140
>>6070145
>kids
Hmmm, what about adults?

>> No.6070159

>>6070150
>You can't just drop a bunch of sources on someone and expect it to do any good. You need to actually provide interpretation of what's being posted while high-lighting the important parts.

NO BECAUSE YOU RACISTS ARE RETARDED

YOU CANT CLAIM TO UNDERSTAND SCIENCE, TRY TO POST SCIENCE THAT YOU CLAIM TO KNOW THEN...

WHEN SOMEONE ELSE POSTS SCIENCE YOU SAY "HURR DURRR I CANT READ THAT"

>> No.6070161

>>6070151

I dunno. Are there any large-sample tests on 3+ generation immigrants?

>> No.6070168

>>6070161
Because kids, regardless race, are always paired

Only when they grow up, differences start to show

>> No.6070173
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6070173

>>6070159
>NO BECAUSE YOU RACISTS ARE RETARDED
>YOU
>YOU
>YOU
Look, buddy, I'm just trying to help you by telling you how to speak on their level.

Getting upset at them and going into CRUISE CONTROL isn't going to help your case. If anything, it's just going to reinforce what they're saying.
If you're going to get angry at them for not listening to you, then you're better off not posting.

>> No.6070174

>>6070171
African-Americans and White-Americans kids get similar results, adults do not

>> No.6070171

>>6070168

Really? So kids in Africa would get similar results? I kind of doubt that.

>> No.6070176

>>6070157

You can't even spell non sequitur. The fact is there are meaningful genetic differences between races, these differences have consequences for how medicine is practiced. There may be other meaningful genetic differences too, it's an open possibility. This almost isn't even really a matter of opinion.

>> No.6070179

>>6070157
I think he said 'racial group' and not 'within immediate family'.

>> No.6070180

>>6070174

I'm not talking about African-Americans, I'm talking about children in Africa.

>> No.6070181
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6070181

False premise that IQ is accurate.

False premise that IQ is static.

Education can strongly influence IQ which isn't accurate to begin with.

Even if all the fallacious shit was true it wouldn't be a valid excuse for racism.

Trivial shit any idiot should be able to understand yet there are people on this board who fail to understand this shit.

>> No.6070183

>>6070173
It's not our job to speak at "their level." They refuse to learn the science or believe anyone that presents them with real scientific literature. They are brainwashed by an astroturf website, and can only think with their feelings and do not know anything beyond a few buzzword phrases and pictures they spam.

>> No.6070185

>>6070159

Are you braindead or what?

>> No.6070187
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6070187

>>6070181
>yet there are people on this board
It's a /pol/ invasion.

>> No.6070189

>>6070181
At some point in that discussion we would have to define what we mean by 'racism'. Is recognizing a difference racism?

>> No.6070193

>>6070183
>It's not our job to speak at "their level."
Then don't. Don't post if you're going to get frustrated. It just makes them think they're winning.

>>6070187
There are plenty of people on /sci/ that think IQ is relevant.

>> No.6070196

>>6070140

Oh yeah, and also note how many of the "race" myths are actually bogus - e.g. "Asians are good at math" - bullshit, the Chinese are good at math (at least in the UK), but that's it. Hardly makes any sense from a genetic perspective.

>> No.6070198

The real question should be "Does Race exist, and how does it correlate with IQ?"

>> No.6070195

IQ isn't the end all be all of intelligence. It's a good measure for specific portions of intelligence like spatial recognition or logic ability, but it ignores cunning, the ability to survive and innovate and so on.

Anyways, what you're claiming OP is that genetics somehow have no involvement in IQ scores, which is 100% bullshit. The ability for logic and spatial recognition and so on is determined by the brain which is obviously determined by genetics. Now if you're trying to claim that the environment itself is what leads to bad genes, that can be somewhat recognized. For example, people who lived in colder climates for thousands of years and far more cautious and intelligent because they were forced to be by the environment.

If you didn't prepare for the winter with a good harvest, you starved to death. It's as simple as that.

>> No.6070199

>>6070181

Are you implying that because IQ isn't 100% accurate or rigidly static that it's useless? It does very well at what it is supposed to do, measure specific portions of intelligence.

>> No.6070201

>>6070189

Anything that highlights genetic differences and tries to acknowledge them as separate is racist. Why would you need to categorize people based on genetics if you're not a racist fuck?

>> No.6070200

>>6070181
IQ is accurate. It is also static, unless you suffer brain damage. I'm sorry to hear that you scored low, but please refrain from denying scientific facts for emotional reasons.

>> No.6070203

>>6070189

Racist is the belief that your ethnic group is superior to others. If you did not already this you are either too young to be here or had a very questionable education.

>> No.6070204
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6070204

>Every single teacher, instructor, and professor I've had has been white or asian
>They try to convince me that race doesn't matter
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that race is something that should be actively segregated.

But I'll be damned if I haven't been getting some seriously mixed messages from these people that keep trying to convince me that race can be ignored.

>> No.6070206

>>6070203

The term has been diluted again and again over the last few decades. Now it's used to refer to anything people disagree with that's even remotely linked to biology.

>> No.6070208

>>6070063
>I would like /sci/ to debunk all their shit?
you can't debunk facts, PC tool.

>> No.6070210

>>6070204

Teachers who don't follow the status quo get fired. What would you expect them to do?

>> No.6070212

>>6070201

Are you seriously trying to claim that highlighting genetic differences is racist? Are you on drugs?

Let's not even talk about genetics by your logic, clearly it's racist because it's highlighting them.

>> No.6070213

>All these posts

>> No.6070219

>>6070200
>It is also static
No it's not. It fluctuates several points, especially during the developmental stages in life. Mostly because it's hard to properly gauge IQ during those years, especially when single question or two can make a wide difference on a test once you're past 125IQ.

It's not that the tests "don't matter". It's that they don't measure success.

>> No.6070217
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6070217

>>6070195
>For example, people who lived in colder climates for thousands of years and far more cautious and intelligent because they were forced to be by the environment.

>> No.6070223

>>6070195
>hurr duurr africa doesn't have seasons!

>> No.6070220

>>6070203

Not really, for example,

>>6070201

Seems to believe that anything that highlights genetic differences and tries to acknowledge them as separate is racist.

I'd always grown up with the understanding that racism was 'all of my people are better than your people because I am white and you are black'. Which isn't the same as saying 'we are different'.

>> No.6070224

>>6070198

For what it's worth, you can see some differences of opinion on the matter between academics here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)#Current_views_across_disciplines

>> No.6070227

>>6070223
It has a wet season and a dry season.

>> No.6070228

>>6070223

Are you able to read? sub-Saharan Africa has very mild seasonal change. Nowhere near the large shifts farther away from the equator.

Or are you going to suggest that sub-Saharan Africa secretly becomes a frozen wasteland without anyone being the wiser?

>> No.6070230

>>6070174

So I've looked at some African tests and look like I was right.

The data from Richard Lynn show average African kid IQ 67. Now some other scientists say that the tests were administered improperly, and that it's more like 80, but it doesn't matter all that much. Still a big difference between African kids and African immigrant kids.

>> No.6070233
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6070233

>>6070224

There is clear genetic distances and differentiation between populations. It's not much of a stretch to categorize some populations who share broad similarities into ethnic groups and then categorize the ethnic groups who share broad similarities into racial groups.