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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6048921 No.6048921 [Reply] [Original]

What does /sci/ think about "outreach" inclusion in grant writing?

I have had discussions with my grad colleagues recently how you have to include how you are going to "have outreach to the community" if you want your grant to get funded.

What sort of bullshit is this? I don't want to go teach first graders about the periodic table, I want to finish my PhD.

Grant writing is an inherently flawed, shit and terrible way to support academic research, but this new "outreach" shit just makes it worse.

>> No.6048927

It's meant to filter out people whose political leanings don't perfectly match those of the university. Might just be better to look for an angel investor to finance your research. Try crowdfunding it too maybe if you can explain what you want to do in a way ordinary people can understand.

>> No.6048938

>>6048921
> I just want to finish my PhD.
I understand the feeling; but, if you plan on going into industry, remember that you might also have overqualified yourself for a large number of positions just by having your PhD. Then again, that's where the networking kicks in.

>>6048927
I wonder how many research areas that last idea would apply to, without completely glossing over the actual research.

>> No.6048994

>>6048927
>It's meant to filter out people whose political leanings don't perfectly match those of the university.
Well, that's revolting.

>> No.6049022

>>6048994
Its not your money, you have no entitlement to it. They can give it to whomever they please, using whatever criteria they please for distribution. Be glad it goes to research at all instead of hookers and blow.

>> No.6049034

>>6049022
The issue isn't they don't hand out money to everyone who wants it, the issue is they hide behind "outreach" to appear more open than they actually are.

Way to give out a knee jerk "muh property" reply though.

>> No.6049049

>>6049034
>the issue is they hide behind "outreach" to appear more open than they actually are.
So? Again, they can use whatever strategies they please to improve their public image, distribute their wealth, achieve any goals they have. Its their fucking money.

>> No.6049064

>>6049049
>You can't be immoral if you're using your own money.
Holy shit you're retarded.

>> No.6049074

>>6049064
I never said they can't be immoral. I'm saying they're not obliged to conform to your morality just because you're self righteous enough to consider it universal. Even if their morals align exactly with yours, they're well within their rights to use more advanced decision making processes than moral judgement.

>> No.6049077

I personally think it's fucking gay. Fucking jews. The jews are not capable of creativity. Only stealing. Why can't we have our grant money without jumping through horseshit hoops?

>> No.6049112

>>outreach
translation: give lab tours to potential donors

alternative translation: a way to get high schoolers to do your work for you

>>teach first graders about the periodic table
if you can't do this, then how do you expect to get funding from politicians who know less than a first grader? (I'm looking at you House Science Committee)

>> No.6049145

Lets not forget it isn't the University which gives grant money guys, it's agencies like the NIH, NIST, NSF, etc.

>> No.6049154

>>6048921
Isn't that just to ensure they won't throw grant money at research that's never going to get read? I'd much rather have this requirement than have grant money falling into a black hole.

>> No.6049164

>>6048921
It's a shit-ass new age meaningless term that good-intentioned fat white women in offices that know nothing of your profession slap onto everything they touch. Other terms include:
>Advocacy
>Diversity
>Multiculturalism
>Awareness
>Community building
>Community garden
>Mural
>Friendship quilts

And other such touchy feely dogshit.

Welcome to the worthless PC hell we call the future.

>> No.6049176
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6049176

>>6049022
Who says you can't have "community outreach" teaching the periodic table to hookers?

To get my grant, I taught hookers stellar cartography for 5 weeks. It was a huge success.

Pic related. My community outreach.

>> No.6049180

>>6049164
>I have never applied for a grant, I'm just the shitposter from /pol/ who calls mundane things PC to get a rise out of people.

>> No.6049183

>>6049074
>I never said they can't be immoral.
I've been saying they are immoral. When you respond to that with "So? Again, they can use whatever strategies they please to improve their public image, distribute their wealth, achieve any goals they have. Its their fucking money." it conveys that you think that using their own money makes them immune to my criticisms.
>I'm saying they're not obliged to conform to your morality just because you're self righteous enough to consider it universal.
It doesn't take very much self-righteousness to consider taking into account irrelevant biases when making a decision as bad. It's a flaw in reasoning. Basing decisions on unrelated data is inefficient. Perpetuating inefficiency for personal biases is wrong.
>BUT IT'S THEIR MONEY SO THEY CAN BE AS INEFFICIENT AS THEY WANT
Yeah, but they're still fucking stupid for doing it.
>Even if their morals align exactly with yours, they're well within their rights to use more advanced decision making processes than moral judgement.
Taking into account the personal political leanings of researchers is not a more advanced decision making process.

>> No.6049191

>>6049180
no I've applied for grans before. They are all filled with this crap.

I get the point sometimes, but most of the time it's a catch phrase some tart that browses etsy bolted on.

they might as well say "In what way will your project effect owl trinkets and cupcakes in your community?"

>> No.6049198

I used to think it was just a waste of time, but I've come to realize that outreach is really one of the primary points of scientific research funding, especially in academia. It's vital to science and to society in general that research is made accessible to the public. As a scientist, your job is advance the world's understanding of nature, not just your own.

>> No.6049235

>>6049176
Those're some low quality looking hookers you got there.

>> No.6049236

>>6049183
Are you dumb? They do it to foster an image, not to be biased. They're biased because that's what the greater community wants them to be.

>> No.6049241

>>6049236
If the research isn't politically charged, then how would that effect their image?

>> No.6049245

>>6049236
Irrelevant, we're talking about this.
>>6048927
>It's meant to filter out people whose political leanings don't perfectly match those of the university.

>> No.6049248

>>6049241
You don't think the people working with an organisation reflect on it? If a university was staffed in large part by people with the kinds of ideas you see on /pol/, do you think its image would remain unmarred?

>> No.6049487

>>6048927
here. I didn't mean to start a shitstorm. It might be unrelated to the thread but I should add just one thing to what I said. If you take the crowdfunding route, don't be afraid to give complex details. Anyone can understand anything if you think about how you want to communicate it. Censoring the nitty gritty is not as good as clarifying it.

>> No.6049637

Sounds like this outreach crap serves two functions:

1. Another hoop to jump through, which weeds people out.

2. The funding situation is more strained, since the public is catching on about how fucking useless most research really is.