/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.6035223]

>I may say that when I was a young man and
>was debating these questions very seriously in
>my mind, I for a long time accepted the argument
>of the First Cause, until one day, at the age
>of eighteen, I read John Stuart Mill's Autobiography,
>and I there found this sentence: "My father
>taught me that the question 'Who made me?'
>cannot be answered, since it immediately
>suggests the further question `Who made god?'"
>That very simple sentence showed me, as I still
>think, the fallacy in the argument of the First Cause.
>If everything must have a cause, then God must have
>a cause.
-Bertrand Russell

I believe this argument is bullshit because if we accept God as an all-powerful being and one who exists outside of time, then God does not need to have been caused by anything. God is above our observed laws of physics, i.e., is above needing to be created or caused by some (physical) force.

[Anonymous No.6035229]

> if we accept God as an all-powerful being and one who exists outside of time, then God does not need to have been caused by anything
If some stuff can be uncaused, then the whole argument of "everything must have a cause" goes out the window, doesn't it?

also not /sci/

[Anonymous No.6035231]

philosophy is not a science?

[Anonymous No.6035234]

>>6035231

Religion v. Science threads are the most blatant troll thread you can ever post on this board. Take it to >>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.6035245]

i'm really not trying to troll, this is a philosophy thread. suppose God exists if you want to discuss.

[Anonymous No.6035249]

>>6035229

Everything physical must have a cause. God is not physical.

[Anonymous No.6035254]

>>6035249
How ad hoc.

[Anonymous No.6035257]

>>6035254
is this a compliment?

[Anonymous No.6035259]

>>6035249
Everything is physical. Science = physics. If you say something is not physical then you are not talking about science. Take it somewhere else. /b/ will fit.

[Anonymous No.6035264]

>>6035259

the fuck you talking about? numbers are not physical, is math not a science?

[Anonymous No.6035266]

god's mom

[Anonymous No.6035267]

>>6035264
Math is a language of science. We must have some language to talk about science doesnt it?

[Anonymous No.6035268]

>>6035257
No.

If I ask you "how do you know everything physical must have a cause", you'll ask me to show you something physical without a cause.
Let's ignore for a moment the fact that I could show you billions of such things happening at every instant, and say "okay I can't." That would be a "proof" by induction.
But then I would ask you "how do you know nonphysical things can be uncaused". And then you won't be able to answer that.

[Anonymous No.6035270]

>2013
>no prescribing to the heresies of St. Teilhard

[Anonymous No.6035273]

>>6035270
>muh global consciousness
God thank you for reminding me how much Endymion paled in comparison to Hyperion.

[Anonymous No.6035281]

>>6035268

you're right, i don't know if nonphysical things are above having to be caused. that's what i'm assuming.
your ability to show me billions of physical events happening without cause only weakens Russell's argument.

[Anonymous No.6035283]

>>6035281
It entirely destroys the first cause argument in the first place.
Of course Russell didn't know about QFT.

[Sage No.6035284]

Sage goes in all fields, cancer.

[Anonymous No.6035285]

>>6035283
exactly. then we are in agreement that this First Cause argument is bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6035291]

>>6035264
Maths is an abstract metaphor for understanding things like quantity and change.

[sage No.6035295]

This should be in /x/.

[Anonymous No.6035297]

>>6035283
>>6035285
>>6035281
quantum physics just says you can't know exactly what's going to happen.
It's not fully deterministic.
There's just probabilities instead of exact numbers.
It's for tiny masses only.

God influences the entirety of the universe. It's a fucking big mass.