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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6032843 No.6032843 [Reply] [Original]

How come people are allowed to put rats through a maze and then selectively breed the best maze doers together and the worst maze doers for 40 generations, until they have one set of rats that are world class maze navigators and another who can't navigate mazes very well at all. Then everyone says 'this makes sense' and selective breeding is possible. Then when it is suggested that maybe the reason so many black people in the United States are big and strong and athletic is because slave owners selectively bred their strongest and best slaves together to create more strong and athletic slaves, it's called racist? Is there a scientific reason why selective breeding exists in the animal kingdom but is non applicable to humans?

>> No.6032847

>>6032843
>so many black people in the United States are big and strong and athletic is because slave owners selectively bred their strongest and best slaves together to create more strong and athletic slaves, it's called racist

Is it? I just thought it was called rude/insensitive by the PC crowd.

But no one has done a comprehensive study comparing descendants of slaves vs. more recent African immigrants, so it wouldn't be called science either. Seems like something pretty useless to do science on too, so I doubt it will happen.

>> No.6032851

Not really. When discussing things from the past (e.g. descendents of African slaves) it mostly comes down to political correctness. When discussing things for the future (e.g. Eugenics) ethical considerations also come into play.

But there is nothing intrinsically special about humans that would make the concept hypothetically inapplicable.

>> No.6032886

>>6032851

except we're not animals

>> No.6032891

>>6032886
Loooooool

>> No.6032898

>>6032891
We're aliens.

>> No.6032926

Probably not enough generations for results.

All the biggest strongest people are of European descent

Not enough slaves were selectively breed.

>> No.6032929

>>6032926
Meh, selection can breed spectacular results in a handful of generations, see the experiments to "recreate" dogs by breeding the most tamable wolves.

>> No.6032931

It's because humans are a lot different than rats and some people's feelers will get hurt

>> No.6032932

>>6032929
Then percentage of african americans descended from slaves is too small to apply breeding makes bigger to the entire population

>> No.6032936

>>6032932
>Then percentage of african americans descended from slaves is too small
Uh?

>> No.6032940

>>6032843
Give me a historical source that suggests slave owners were practicing selective breeding. As far as I know from that period, Slave owners primarily focused on quantity rather than quality since they were barred from importing new slaves.

>> No.6032946

>>6032936
Between new immigrants. Blacks who were never slaves. And breeding with these two populations there would be very few slave descendants our pure pedigree

>> No.6032950

>>6032946
Who's talking about pure pedigree?
The biggest part of African-American ancestry is still slaves.

>> No.6032964

The U.S hasn't even been here for forty generations. You only need to go back four generations in my family to hit the 1800's. Crediting rare attempts at selective breeding by slavers for the perceived athletic advantages of today's blacks absolutely does make you sound like a racist. You sound like you're grasping at straws to explain why black people are only better at sports than you because white people made them that way.

>> No.6032966

>>6032964
>The U.S hasn't even been here for forty generations.
More than enough for selective breeding.
>You only need to go back four generations in my family to hit the 1800's.
Because really the slaves lifespan was comparable to your parents'?
You sound like a faggot.

>> No.6032969

>>6032950
The numbers are hard because multiple centuries. But going with 4 million slavesfreed after civil war, and 4.5 million immigrants since civil war. And .5 million not slaves. That puts the majority of blacks as not being slave descended.


Errors with numbers include some free blacks that were slaves prior to freedom. And most imigration did not occure until 20th century.

>> No.6032973
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6032973

>>6032886

>> No.6032976

>>6032966
>lifespan

Who cares how long the slaves lived? It's about when they give birth, which would take a good 16-18 years if you want the mother to have a good chance to survive the process. That's just over six generations per century in a best case scenario. Are you retarded enough to believe people actually organized selective breeding that long, or retarded enough to believe that size and strength were the only important factors in both slave purchases and slave breeding?

>> No.6032984

>>6032966
Assuming breeding age of 20 (anything below 17 wouldnt show proper results for breeding for size as they are still growing ; and 20 is easier for math)

And assuming 200 years of slavery (first official slave 1660ish last official slave 1860ish) that is 10 generations. 11 if bump for our earlier rounding.

Note that the majority of slaves were not imported until after 1740ish so looking at 6-7 generations would be more realistic

>> No.6032985

>>6032926
wrong, american blacks are because when in africa they where naturally selected due to competition since always, and additionally by native tribal leaders and European slave purchasers, into those who are exported to the colonies.
when in the US slaves with favorable traits were better fed, which hereditarily in few generations makes the biggest difference continually improving offspring.

europeans; aside from disease resistance there has been no selection, due to provision of agriculture and other tech.

world wide today there is no selection, enough people survive that there is no direction of the human race. this means that you still get the same people you would if you selected for intelligence, just that you also get 99 other people not selected for intelligence.

only over the course of 500+ years will this have any meaningful effect in comparison to selection. but as human lives currently last <100 years, 99% of the population are not going to neuter themselves.

>> No.6032997

>>6032985
Tallest people on average netherlands
Most world strongman wins germany
Most heavyweight weight lift gold olympic medals russia, germany if gold/silver

>> No.6033002

>>6032997
Whoops most strongman wins might be Sweden

>> No.6033005

>>6032976
Are you retarded enough to think 10 generations isn't significant?
The mortality rates were through the roof.

It's not only about the number of generations.

>> No.6033062

17 year old edgy-teen amateur geneticists itt

>> No.6033075

>>6032997
I hope you understand and know, from this moment on, motherfucking ignorant fuckface fuck, that both olympics and strongmen competition are NOTHING BUT PEDS ABUSE (AVANT-GARDE TECHNOLOGY AND TINKERING) AND DEDICATION. Plus, these are seen as white sports where black people will not participate due to social factors, hance why the total black population is white.

China dominates weightlifting today because they have the best undetectable peptides and best hGH, plus the the weak tests they have to "pass" in order to be considered clean and ready for competition

>> No.6033079

>>6033075
>hurr white people are racist and have to make themselves feel better about black people being good at sorts by saying it was slave selective breeding
>white people are only good at sports cus they use performance enhancing drugs

>> No.6033078

>>6033075
hence* is 0*

Also, just look at Olympia winners of history, half white half black, with blacks dominating today.

inb4 roid rage gb2/fit/

>> No.6033082

>>6033078
The only sport black people are good at is running cus all the slow ones got eaten by lions.

>> No.6033085

>>6033079

I never defended the first >

You are a total moronic douchefag if you ignore the amount of PEDs abused in all sports, specially strength sports. And no, notice how I said Chinese, you can add Kazakis, Russians, Bulgarians, Germans, Swedish, etc...

Stay ignorant, pleb

>> No.6033089
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6033089

I thought black people were fast because the ones with ancestry in Kenya evolved to run fast to chase zebras and shit

>> No.6033099

>>6033075
> china
Only in the lower weight classes.

>> No.6033108

>>6033099
They dominate or are top competitoris in almost all categories, they dont win gold in everything but their results as a team are top.

>> No.6033114

>>6033108
I do not dispute this. Simply that the chinese cannot compete in heavy and super heavy.

>> No.6033115

>>6033114
And why do you think that is? I have a feeling you are going to say something on the lines on racist claims and evolution.

Protip, its not, its probably because they want their other taller people in other sports, this is how fucked up the chinese olympic system is.

>> No.6033126

>>6032843
People say that because humans are untrustworthy fucks whose subconsciousnesses will grasp onto anything to reduce the labor necessary to signal altruism or to strengthen one's sociopolitical position. Because of that, racial discrimination, if allowed, has always caused unjustified racial discrimination and segregation, which bad in itself but also stimulates crime.

Therefore, as a simple but effective defense mechanism, society has been engineered to instead have the same shallow ostracism-reflex to racial (and sexual) discrimination instead. Anybody intelligent enough to be worth anything can quickly see it's not politically beneficial to support racial discrimination in public, so the meme of racial discrimination dies a slow death (in practice, the internet has allowed people to spread it anonymously, severely undermining the tactic's efficacy).

>> No.6033153

>>6033115
They don't weigh enough to enter the categories

>> No.6033184

>>6033115
>there are no morphologic differences between races
Sure thang.

>> No.6033207

>>6033184

The differences are mostly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Not that there aren't differences and they aren't heritable, but outside of some minor things the differences in genetics among human races aren't nearly as big as you imagine it to be.

>> No.6033267

>>6033207
Grand scheme yes
Strongest man competition no

>> No.6033596

>>6033207
>but outside of some minor things
Oh like intelligence and violent behavior.

>> No.6033628

>>6033153
They could, its easy with PEDs and a genetic pool this big

>>6033184
>implying you understand what is needed for weightlifting, specially olympic, morphological differences are almost nothing, maybe if there was a race that could be shown to be much more coordianted than others to make a difference

Just fuck off fat nerd, admit you dont know lifting

>> No.6033635
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6033635

Eugenics is the next step for any species intelligent enough to understand evolution. Humans are either too irrational to see this or smart enough to bypass it and go directly to genetic engineering. I still dont know which.

>> No.6033636

>>6033635
That completely depends on your goals.

>> No.6033640

>>6033636

Survival is the goal for all species.

I would say full understanding of the universe is a secondary goal but its debatable.

>> No.6033641

>>6033635
There's too many misconceptions with heritability out there for it to really be applied in Eugenics properly. It doesn't help that a lot of retarded politicians only want the science to tell them things they "already know".

http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/papers/Heritability.html

>> No.6033648

>>6033641

Its actually very simple though. Like the OP said. Take the best maze runners and breed them and you will have a superior maze runner. One doesnt have to understand everything going on with the genes for this to be true.

And if you want to say that intelligence is mostly environmental you are disagreeing with the majority of evidence collected in twin and adoption studies.

>> No.6033703

>>6033641
Damn, that's the first time I've seen anyone use that link beside me. It's a great primer to uneducated people.

>> No.6033764

>>6033641

>nyu.edu

Way to pick the most feelgoody liberal arts college out there. Unless it's an article about films its probably no better than some shit from a C student at a community college.

>> No.6033772

Blacks only seem fast because the slow ones are in jail.

>> No.6033782

>>6033764
>NYU
>feelgoody liberal arts
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/applied-mathematics-rankings

>> No.6033784

>>6033782

So NYU has one glimmer of hope in an otherwise indoctrinated bastion of feminism. NYU barely has an engineering program for christ's sake, having to resort to buying out some shitty glorified 4 year trade school.

>> No.6033785

Because people want to live and propagate.
We aren't a species that sacrifices ourselves to better others.
We aren't drones that die for our queen. (Well not all of are)

>> No.6033788

>>6033782

So Applied Mathematics = Genetics?

>> No.6033829

>>6033640
>Survival is the goal for all species.

According to who? What if my goal is different to yours such that survival of all people is the goal, not just the "healthy seeds". What possible retort could you have?

>> No.6033832

>>6033641

>department of philosophy

LOL. He doesn't even know shit about genetics but he thinks he's a fucking expert. WHat a load of shit.

>> No.6034130

I was told that most slaves belonged to families that had only one or two slaves. The agricultural South had few plantations. Plantations belonged to wealthy men, politicians and such. I could have been misinformed about this but it seems likely to me because there are not many billionaires now.

I think it is fairly obvious that the more you have, the more you must protect what you have. Vast collections of wealth are the exception, not the norm.

>> No.6034152

>>6032843
Well, it's a respectable hypothesis, until you see the evidence which shows that it's simply false. Then holding on to it is bigotry.

>> No.6034158

>>6034130

>Vast collections of wealth are the exception, not the norm.

Maybe in the circles you move in, you filthy pleb.

>> No.6034161

>>6033641
>>6033703
>>6033764
>>6033782
>>6033784
>>6033788

You might have missed the fact that this article was written by the Department of Philosophy.

I can't imagine that the philosophy department would know anything about genetics.

>> No.6034862

>>6032847
I've heard that they noticed that blacks here have a higher rate of diabetes due to eugenics breeding of slaves that actually were able to survive the dreaded conditions of the slave shits to get the the U.S. for examples those who are better at holding glucose or fat. I need to find the study again though.

>> No.6034870
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6034870

>>6032886
gonna need a bigger bait.

>> No.6034879

>>6033075
"blacks not participate in sports due to social facotrs"
>implying it is more expensive to train as a weight lifter than any other athlete
what is your point here?

>> No.6034894

>>6034158
>"vast collections of wealth"
>norm
no anon it really isn't. And when he says fast he means VAST. being rich and wealthy isn't exactly the same thing. wealth is more long term swimming in money for all generations type of thing

>> No.6034926

>>6033267
They are COMPLETELY irrelevant in strongest man competition. You have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about.

>> No.6034949

1. Say something that makes sense.
2. Claim that this is considered "racist".
3. ???

What is the point of this nonsense?

>> No.6034953

Because it hurts people's feelings.

>> No.6034978

It would make sense, decendents in africa mostly focus on tracking (hunting) and general athletic traits. Then came slave trade where once again athletics (in the way of duration and strentgh) came in focus again. Then in the push for civil rights one of their main venues they had for social respect and economic wealth came from performing well in athletic sports.

Mind you I wouldn't so much call it selective breeding as just adapting to social environments. Not like they had many options to go into besides theology, reading, the arts, agriculture and maybe economics during those times.

When it came to shit like science, medicine and math the only blacks that really participated in it at the time where the ones who had the "natural" gift or interest from when they were young.

>> No.6035359

>>6033648
No because you have a ton of uncontrolled variables that should be controlled and worse you're controlling variables that you shouldn't be. You may think you're just selecting for the best maze runners but in fact you're selecting for the best maze runners who can see through corn mazes and work best in daylight and work best on flat ground and work best at that humidity, etc..

Why would you select for rats who are really good at turning right just because your current mazes solve quicker by sticking to the right? What if in the future your mazes solve quicker by sticking to the left, or worse your mazes require rats to alternate between left and right? What if you have a huge mix of mazes and it's impossible for one specific trait of rat to be able to solve all of them so your best bet is to have a variety of rats?

>> No.6035361
File: 130 KB, 700x663, pokeman professor oak challenge.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6035361

>>6035359

The best pokemon players have a team of just one type of pokemon.

>> No.6035379

>>6034926
poodle versus great dane

>> No.6035747

Scientific objectivity at its finest.

>> No.6036005

>>6033832
>>6034161

Holy shit, this is golden.

Then again I never hear any geneticists after the 70s or so comment about it, and every time I see a study cited there's always a /pol/ narrative around it.

>> No.6036956

>>6034161
>>6033832

They're pointing out common misconceptions regarding the logical structure. This is exactly what philosophers deal with as well as scientists. They are not arguing the science about it, the only retards who ever argue against the science are /pol/esmokers who don't like that results are published that don't support their ideologies.

>> No.6037317

>>6033075
Same could be said for black sprinters. Sprinters will wear braces to prevent their teeth from getting all mangled because of jaw growth from HGH abuse.

>> No.6037320

>>6032843
Not all creatures experience gentic drift at the same rate. Compare more complex creatures such as humans to cichlids. Those bastards speciate at insane rates. In just a few thousand years they produce hundreds of different SPECIES. It's absolute madness.

>> No.6037445

>>6036956

But most /pol/lacks don't disagree with the science, it's the liberals who think the science is racist that disagree with it. If anything the science supports their hypothesis (*that blacks are intellectually inferior)

>> No.6037463

Selective breeding is a statistics issue; the more frequently a gene-set recurs in an organism's lineage, the more likely a specific chromosomal pattern will express within said organism.

It has nothing to do with people vs. animals.

>> No.6037688

>>6037445
>But most /pol/lacks don't disagree with the science

>post a research paper about anything in /pol/
>Universities have a librul bias. The science they're reporting on offends my feels because I believe the white male is the most individual in modern society. Here is a fox news article reporting on a research paper from the Heritage Foundation. It's totally legit even though everything it says sounds completely retarded.

>> No.6037689

>>6037688
>most oppressed individual
fuck

>> No.6038959

>>6037688
>>6037689

You have to agree that universities have a liberal bias and professors are afraid to say anything that can offend.