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/sci/ - Science & Math

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6007412 No.6007412 [Reply] [Original]

How does it even make sense to you that we came from fish who crawled out of the ocean who eventually became monkey, who eventually became humans?

How do you not realize how retarded that sounds? Do you just accept everything that you're told?

>> No.6007415

>Do you just accept everything that you're told?

Yes, that's how education works. If you don't accept what you're told, you won't pass the exam.

>> No.6007416

www.amazon__com/Evolution-Beginners-Guide-Oneworld/dp/1851683712

>> No.6007420

>>6007415
There's a difference between memorizing information because you're required to and actually believing it.

>> No.6007425

>>6007416
You can just admit that you don't know anything about it, and that you just blindly accept it anon. You don't have to try to be condescending.

>> No.6007426

>>6007420
But believing in evolution makes life so much simpler. I don't need to waste time worrying about the origins of life forms anymore.

>> No.6007428

>>6007420
a rush of dopamine will fool your brain into that feeling of understanding. pop some addys and suddenly baseless facts seem super important and relevant. that's why you remember everything, your brain decides everything is important and meaningful.

>> No.6007431

>>6007426
So you find comfort in ignorance?

>> No.6007441

>>6007425
I'm not trying to be condescending. From your post it seemed you may have not had the opportunity to develop an understanding of the theory of evolution.

Don't be alarmed, that book may say "beginners," but it's not for children, its for someone precisely in that group. Adults that have not yet begun a study into evolution, it's actually quite full of the modern theories, and seems to be okay, I checked it out.

Seriously, give it a read, then come back and we'll have a reasoned debate with both parties having a full understanding of what they're debating.

>> No.6007442

Nobody knows the origins of life on earth, but evolution is a real thing.

>> No.6007447

>>6007441
I understand the theory, and I understand that it's ridiculous. It's especially ridiculous how many people consider it a fact with how flimsy it is.

>> No.6007480

>>6007447
gr8 b8 m8

>> No.6007483

>>6007480
Have you ever even really actually read the theory of how homo sapiens came to be? It's utterly ridiculous.

>> No.6007485

>>6007447
Evolution is actually a real thing. The best "proof" for evolution imho is that you can see it happening in bacterias or similar microscopic life-forms. They will evolve and develop resistances to certain envoirements.

If you use this knowledge onto the broader specturm of species, it's pretty logical for me that evolution is happening.

>> No.6007493

>>6007485
So you believe that humanity as we know it is a result of a series of mutations that were passed down generationally and eventually came into the form we recognize now as homo sapiens about two hundred thousand years ago?

>> No.6007495

>>6007485
Its also happening with breeding new races of animals like cats or dogs. You can literally see diferences. Of course its not real evolution but its great that you can see how genes inheritance works.

>> No.6007496

>>6007493
Don't know about the 200.000 years thing, not really smart with these things, but for the rest yes.

>> No.6007502

>>6007493
Whats so weird about it. You really cant imagine how generations of species change in long term time, when you actually can see these changes in microscopic lives?

>> No.6007507

>>6007496
Why do you believe that mutations are passed down generationally? Why do you believe that natural selection even favors organisms that are better adapted to their environment? I've never seen nature be anything but unendingly harsh and random in it's judgement. It doesn't matter who is stronger or smarter. Every single living thing has the same chance of being cut down by an infinite number of factors that we can't control and mutations can't help us adapt to.

>> No.6007513

People who reject evolution based on "common sense" just have no abstract conception of how long millions of years really is

>> No.6007512

>>6007507
>why do you believe that mutations are passed down genetically

mutation
Use Mutation in a sentence
mu·ta·tion [myoo-tey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
Biology .
a.
a sudden departure from the parent type in one or more heritable characteristics, caused by a change in a gene or a chromosome.
b.
an individual, species, or the like, resulting from such a departure.

>> No.6007517

>>6007507
Evolution does not favor who is strongest or smartest, it simply does not care. If the species is successful in reproducing then that's evolution.

>> No.6007519

>>6007507
>mutations can't help us adapt to
Mutations don't "help" anything. Evolution is not an active process towards some higher end or something. It's just that the ones that happen to mate, sometimes because of better survival traits but sometimes just fucking randomly or because somehow some trait was sexually selected for, are the ones who continue the lineage.

I really don't get how this is hard to understand.

>> No.6007521

we all have free will
everybody goes bonkers

>> No.6007522

>>6007519
>>6007517
>>6007513
Have you ever looked into the timeline of evolution that leads to homo sapiens? It's laughable.

>> No.6007526

>>6007522
Which part do you have a problem with? Do you not see how fish could lead to amphibians could lead to reptiles? Give me an instance of the laughable part

>> No.6007528

>>6007507
This isn't necessarily true. Although randomness is a huge factor in how the environment works, for you to ignore the fact that there ARE more suitable ways of being for certain environments is completely baffling.

You don't need thousands of years of evidence to prove that being unable to adapt to your environment will lead to certain death. The only right adaptation is the one that is most suitable for the given environment at the given time frame.

Human beings most definitely adapted in this same manner at some point in history, but there is just not enough evidence as to how or why.

Like >>6007485 said, evolution is real. It's how things work. Get the fuck over it.

>> No.6007530

You really dont have to know everything about evolution to see how reasonable this theory is. Every single being from one species is different. One has little longer neck, other shorter tail etc. Its not hard to realize that ones with most appropriate characteristics will have most chances to survive.

>> No.6007539

>>6007507
>Why do you believe that natural selection even favors organisms that are better adapted to their environment?

Do you even read what you're typing? You just said:
>Why do you believe that a fish in a desert would have a worse chance of survival than a camel?

Which quite strongly hints that you don't understand the concepts you try to debate.

>> No.6007545

How is one species even formed from another species?

>> No.6007551

>>6007545
Magnets

>> No.6007554

>>6007545
>How is one species even formed from another species?
The move to a different region and don't breed with those in their former region, keep that pattern up for 20k years and you have new species.

>> No.6007557

>>6007554
"They"? Who's they?

>> No.6007559

>>6007557
>Who's they?
The guys that moved to the new region.

>> No.6007562

Evolution is one of the first concepts I've intuitively understood.

I cannot argue with it because nothing makes more sense to me.

>> No.6007564

>>6007559
This is where shit stops making sense to me. You're trying to tell me that entirety of evolution, each new species that was formed including homo sapiens is a result of a small group splitting off from the main group, moving what would have to be an incredible distance away to a new region, then start mutating and passing those mutations down to each new generation until they are all a new species?

Do they all have the same mutations? How is that possible? How would they all evolve into the same thing?

>> No.6007569

>>6007562
Explain it then. Explain how humanity came to be what it is today.

>> No.6007571

>>6007539
I didn't even come close to saying anything like that. Why are you reaching so hard?

I'm saying even the best adapted organism to an environment has the exact same chance to be wiped out from the gene pool as anything else.

>> No.6007574
File: 60 KB, 495x417, 1349975241758.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6007574

ITT: Op posts obvious bait. People actually reply to him. His only responses are variations of the degree of absurdity he views evolution has, but doesn't actually point out any facts or circumstances.

>> No.6007580

>>6007574
Where's your evidence?

>> No.6007581

>>6007571
>the exact same chane to be wiped out from the gene pool as anything else

And this is where your logical failure lies.
What he said:
>>6007513
We are talking about millions of years. A fish is not adapted to live in the desert. Most deserts used to be oceans at some point. The oceans vanished over millions of years, the fish died out.
The envoirement of the earth changes all the time.
If it gets hotter for example, organisms tend to be heat resistant (for example bacteria living near black smokers), because the ones who do not have the heat resistance die. That's why there are more reptiles/insects in a deserty area than mamals.

>organisms react to the envoirement
>the envoirement changes over millions of years
>the organisms who are most suited for the changing envoirement survive
>the other organisms die

As I said earlier, you can see (pretty much literally see if you film it and fast-forward it a bit) how bacterias adapt to their envoirement.

>> No.6007586

>>6007581
If an environment begins to change, wouldn't all of the species there instead leave or die?

You think that they all of the organisms of a particular species instead mutate to be heat resistant at the same time, then pass down that mutation?

>> No.6007591

>>6007586
Every organism is different, just like every human is different. One better stands in higher temperature the other one must leave the place. Only these most adapted stay, and they give their genes to offspring. Those which left, pass down their own genes. Thats how differences starts to show up.

>> No.6007594

>>6007591
And that makes perfect sense to you as the origin of every single species on the face of the planet? Including us?

>> No.6007596

>>6007586
Just try to imagine the concept of a million years. I am going to just directly forward it to you, to help you understand:
>the earth heats up
>new york and the netherlands are going to be flooded sooner or later
Following your logic, everyone should IMMEDIATELY leave new york and the netherlands, because they are going to be flooded in a couple of (hundred maybe) years.

That's not how it works.
It's a little bit like this (on a basic level, very simplified), values are not true and just there to clarify the point:
>imagine it gets hotter by 1 degree (talking celsius or kelvin here) every 50 years
>after 500 years, the place will be 10 degrees hotter
That's not much right? Only the worst adapted species has to leave yet or dies.
>after 1000 years, the place will be 20 degrees hotter
That is a number already. That would be a summer with 60°C instead of 40°C (140°F instead of 104°F). Humans would already have severe problems living there and would probably move away. Now that's 1000 years.
>after a million years the place will be 20.000°C hotter
That's basically hell. Every organism who lived there a million years ago would now have died or moved away.
Except for those, who managed to adapt in the time.
The ones who do not carry the "heat resistant gene" (still simplifying) have died in the process of the first 1000 years, the others kept reproducing. And this just goes on forever. The ones who are the most heat resistant will survive, the ones who are least heat resistant will die.

Of course there are more factors than just heat resistances, but this is just to simplify the process and of course counts for every single aspect of life (for example ability to gain food, escape predators, etc.)
Only those with the best qualities will survive and keep reproducing, the others will die out.

>> No.6007598

>>6007594
Well I dont know if thatmake sense to you, but its facts

>> No.6007603

>>6007594
To me it definetly does. Maybe you have just a severe case of special-snowflake syndrom towards the human race.
Sorry, but we are just some kind of mammal and the same as all the other animals on this planet.

>> No.6007606

>>6007596
Oh and remember, what I forgot to clarify:
500 years is more than 10 generations. That means your grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-parents (some medieval guys). 1000 years would be 20 generations and 1.000.000 years would be 20.000 generations.

>> No.6007608

>>6007598
It's actually a theory, and in order for anything to be a theory it has to be able to be disproven. That's an actual fact.

But keep on blindly accepting things.

>>6007603
Yes, because we are no different than any other animal on the planet. We have never done anything to prove that we might be different than them, and them different than us. We are all completely equal, and we have in no way shown that we might be different.

>> No.6007611

>>6007608
>Yes, because we are no different than any other animal on the planet. We have never done anything to prove that we might be different than them, and them different than us. We are all completely equal, and we have in no way shown that we might be different.

I guess you got the point now. Nice to see someone in an internet discussion actually admitting that he has been convinced instead of getting randomly defensive and sarcastic, I am proud of you anon!

>> No.6007613

>>6007611
I find it hard to believe that you truly think that, anon. Look at how we're communicating right now. Do you truly believe that we're equal to animals, and are no different than them? That we came to be what were are by the same process? That a series of mutations being passed down through generations of migrating groups led us to this point? This point where we've conquered nature?

>> No.6007619

>>6007613
Yes, until:
>point where we've conquered nature
>implying
We have "conquered" the landmasses of the earth, parts of the oceans and put a flag onto the moon and a rover onto mars. That's not where nature ends for me.
There are still forces in the universe who could stop our existance in the blink-of-an-eye (supernovae, magnetars).

Still, humans are obviously the most evolved (duh) species on earth. We are the smartest and have the ability to use tools and technology due to our evolved (duh) brain.
That's why we are the dominant species on earth at the moment, because we are the most advanced and we are adaptable to most of the dangers of natures. That's what evolution is for.

>> No.6007621
File: 37 KB, 432x488, 1376363525187.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6007621

>People falling for this obvious bait

Why is /sci/ so easy to troll?

>> No.6007623

>>6007606
>1000 years would be 20 generations
in what country is one generation equal to 50 years?
nobody has children at age 50.
average generation is about 20 years.
so 1000 years would be 50 generations.
500 years is 25 generations.
etc.

>> No.6007624

>>6007619
You don't find it absurd in any way that in the 200,000 years that homo sapiens have existed, that we've advanced infinitely beyond any other species that has existed in the previous 4 billion years that the earth has existed? That in this short period of time, we've created more than any other species could possibly ever do?

You don't think that makes a little bit different? A little bit special? You don't question what we are because of that? You think it was just another series of mutations that led us to the point where we built civilization?

>> No.6007625

>>6007412

>>6007496

Are you serious? How is this shit hard?

Mutations happen, they change an organism, if it changes it for the better (increasing its chances of reproduction and survival) the genes get passed on.

>> No.6007626

>>6007621
You are only being trolled if you get mad. I am having fun here and an opportunity to rethink my own thoughts.
>>6007623
Is that the only thing that bothers you about my post? How about the "the earth will be 20.000°C hotter in 1 million years". As I said, numbers are just for clarification.

>> No.6007627

>>6007625
My question is still this
>>6007564

>> No.6007628

>>6007624
We've just got the brainpower and manipulator digits is all. Think of how varying human intelligence is; our brains are very powerful and wildly variable, and consume a lot of energy (more than any other species).

The reason, of course, is that our ancestors survived better because they could figure out how to survive better. This is easy, bro.

>> No.6007632

>>6007624

You don't find it absurd in any way that in the last 200 years that we've advanced infinitely beyond any other humans that have existed in the previous 200,000 years that the earth has had humans on it?

>> No.6007634

>>6007628
How are you downplaying our achievements so much?

Just think about the millions upon millions of years our ancestors existed, and how little they accomplished, then in the 200,000 years homo sapiens have existed, our achievements have dwarfed the entirety of the past history of the earth. We've accomplished more in a few thousand years than any other living thing did over countless billions of years.

How did we become so infinitely superior in such a short time?

>> No.6007637

>>6007632
I actually really really do. I constantly think about that. I think about it everyday.

Think about leap in advancement from 1860 to 1960. How is that possible?

>> No.6007639

>>6007627

So you understand the concept but not the specifics which is fine but I suggest you read a textbook on natural selection and evolution to get a more detailed answer.

But as a tl;dr, yes thats pretty much how it works. Except that they don't move great distances they gradually expand and at times migrate though throughout a common region.

>How do they all evolve into the same thing
They don't. And what you're missing here is a basic understanding of genetics. Look, there are two dogs in a group of 100. Two have sex, the offspring has a mutation that inhibits the growth of a gene that limits muscle growth. Its a huge son of a bitch living in a region with plenty of food. Which means its the alpha dog and gets to procreate with the bitches, thus passing on its gene and creating another generation of huge ass dogs. The other dogs are no longer superior and get to have less sex. In addition they lose in fights. Eventually you have a generation of lions and dogs. Now if that original mutation developed in a region with scarce resources it wouldn't be able to get the food it needs and would die out.

>> No.6007640

>>6007624

A couple dozen (if that) mutations in the ancient ape genepool gave proto-humans the capacity for rapid cultural evolution. Cultural evolution is enabled by, but otherwise completely separate from, genetic evolution. It is cultural evolution that has brought humanity to the staggering heights it has achieved, not some immense pile of genetic mutations. We are still incredibly similar, genetically speaking, to the other great apes. We didn't evolve rockets, or guns, or cars. Our brains evolved to be effective memetic propagators, and then memetics took the reins from genetics.

>> No.6007644

>>6007639
Again, this only works if you accept the idea that natural selection favors the huge son of a bitch dog, which I don't think it does. You seem to think it's all a matter of strength and fucking. There are so many other factors involved. So many ways nature could and would cut down that dog in an instant for no reason.

It could accidentally trip and break it's leg. Now it's fucked forever. It's just as fragile and susceptible to death and maiming as anything else. Nature favors nothing.

>> No.6007648

>>6007640
And you don't see anything special about humanity? You don't see anything special about being infinitely more advanced than anything in the previous billions of years of existence on earth?

>> No.6007650

>>6007644

...who cares? What's the point about details? I really don't know where to start. What I gave you was an example of a concept, you're challenging the example instead of the concept. The point is, the mutation has created a superior variation of a dog. You can refute that that isn't a possibility. And the condition that I listed wouldn't have caused its bones to break, in fact its a well known documented condition in cattle where the cattle lead a perfectly healthy life.

>Nature favors nothing
...not sure if you're serious. Nature doesn't favor anything, of course not its not a conscious being with a personality. Nature doesn't favor species, species favor nature. Thats the foundation of natural selection. A polar bear will survive in the antarctic while a humming bird won't not because nature 'favors' a bear.

>> No.6007653

Can someone please explain to me why this guy is actually getting serious replies?

>> No.6007652

>>6007650
I'm saying natural selection favors nothing. It doesn't favor any superior variation of a species.

>> No.6007655

>>6007653
Why are you so quick to discredit someone who questions something that you blindly accept?

>> No.6007656

>>6007652

What's next, a rick astley video? You're making this shit too obvious.

6/10; you had me responding

>> No.6007658

>>6007644
You don't understand the ODDS do you?

Sure, a beneficial mutation may die out due to random chance. I'm sure that's happened many many times. But some will make it, and those who come after now have that slight advantage, and it could STILL stop at that point, but if it doesn't, it soon gains a fair degree of momentum in the region and maybe after fifty generation most living animals are the descendents of the original badass.

And this is happening all the time across many animals. Maybe fast and big fuckers merge into huge fast fuckers, or slower, ambushy fuckers. This shit is complicated, and it shows up in the fossil record and in genetics pretty goddamn well.

Question to you-can you explain the evidence better without invoking the supernatural?

(I know it's a question asked by a grinning troll, but fuck it, muh autism)

>> No.6007660

>>6007655

Wow op, you sure are good at imitating a retard, jokes on us lol

>> No.6007662

>>6007658

stop, he's trolling, just stop

>> No.6007667
File: 2.06 MB, 2848x2207, ohgodwhatthefuck.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6007667

>>6007574
I knew this was almost certainly true but responded anyway.

Ride never ends.

>> No.6007669

>>6007658
You're assuming the ones that survive are the best suited. The ones that survive are just lucky. That's all there is to it.

>> No.6007674

>>6007658
That also doesn't explain how we came to be what we are.

>> No.6007676

>>6007669
>>6007674

lol

>> No.6007679

>>6007676
cool counter argument. I'm sure you'll go far hiding behind bitter condescension.

>> No.6007681

>>6007648

Not especially. We're still entirely at the mercy of nature. A single Gamma Ray Burst from a star in our galaxy pointed at the Earth and we're dead. A single large (and overdue) asteroid impact, and we're dead. If you want to read about the myriad ways that we could die, I suggest exitmundi.nl.

Even if despite all the ways in which we are just as helpless as all the other creatures on this planet, I believed that we are significantly "better" than any other life, I am not so insecure that I would need to constantly reassure myself how vastly superior I am to every other insignificant speck of carbon.

>> No.6007684

>>6007679
>>6007681

lol

now you're responding to your own comments

>> No.6007685

>>6007648
Nope.

We got lucky as fuck in the initial run up to our evolution in terms of our abstract thinking and problem solving abilities.. We used tool manipulation and social connections to eventually, after many many millenniums of near zero technological progress, explode into the modern age of technology, which is largely due to advances in communication tech, like this internet we're using right now.

We're impressive, sure, but we're really just what happens when an ape starts to talk and stops looking for the next piece of fruit on the tree and starts wondering what the moon is.

>> No.6007687

>>6007669
>implying that tiny advantages over vast populations over vast periods of time don't add up
>being this utterly fucking retarded

>> No.6007692

>>6007685
Basically.

ITT: >BUT MOMMY SED IM SPESHUL

>> No.6007695

>>6007681
So because we could die all die in an instant from a great number of ways, you refuse to acknowledge how superior we are? You don't see that? You don't see the leap in advancement in the last 200,000 years compared to the previous 4 billion?

>> No.6007697

>>6007669
>The ones that survive are just lucky. That's all there is to it.
See, that's not an argument, that's just a bullshit illogical opinion. Clearly, the ability of a creature will have a hand in how well it survives in an abstract way, at least SOME of the time.

A fast lizard is more likely to evade danger. So faster lizards live to breed slightly more often. Wait long enough, you get lizards with really long legs that are fast as fuck and look way different than the original lizard.

Selection pressure, son.

>> No.6007700

>>6007692
>>6007685
How can you deny what we are? How do you not see how incredible our advancements are in the face of the previous billions of years of life, and how fucking harsh this planet it?

Do you not understand how incredible it is that we were able to overcome that and create what we have now? You really think what we are is one step above fucking monkeys? How can you give us such little credit for what we are? Why are you so determined to undersell us?

>> No.6007702

>>6007697
Now how exactly do you think that process led to modern humans?

>> No.6007704
File: 33 KB, 357x450, williambragg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6007704

>>6007692
The funny thing is we're cheerfully burning through the existent resources of the planet like a cancer patient maxing out his credit cards on hookers and blow before the tumor makes him a vegetable. Everything from water reserves to rare earth elements is getting pumped into a big, roaring economic machine to make useless gadgety bullshit for children, instead of sending out colony ships to seed the universe with our sons and daughters.

We're a guy playing seven simultaneous games of chess while juggling on a unicycle he's riding straight down into a canyon filled with dodo carcasses and panda thumbs.

Oh well, been a fun ride.

>> No.6007705

>>6007700
I like what you're saying.

>> No.6007707

>>6007700
It's not a SHITTY achievement, but it's not a miracle or anything. We're cool and shit, but we have also managed to do some pretty dumb shit on the way up too.

>> No.6007711

I RESPECT. OPINION'S NEGLECT. I BELIEVE IN FREE WILL AND IN TIME 2B WELL SPENT.

>> No.6007712

>>6007704
>Colony ships

We'd have to max out every single resource on earth to create a ship large enough to maintain a population that would be able to make it to another planet. The amount of fuel it would take would be indescribable.

We'd have to find a way to travel the speed of light, and it would still then take thousands of years to reach another planet, so there would have to be generation upon generation living in that ship.

It will never be a viable option anon.

>> No.6007714

>>6007707
It's pretty fucking incredible if you really think about it. Do you realize how long 4 billion years is? Look how much more we've done than anything else in just a few thousand.

>> No.6007717

>>6007700
>>6007695

The real question is why you faggots give a shit about some nebulous superiority.

Sure, pat yourself on the back for the minuscule achievements your ancestors have made on this speck of dust in this nearly endless void. A few decades ago, we managed to get from our speck to the next speck over. Well done, us.

Sorry that I'm unwilling to waste my life giving myself self-congratulatory blowjobs. If that makes me sound like a misanthropic fuck, oh well.

>> No.6007720

>>6007717
I remember when I was 15.

>> No.6007721

>>6007714
no offense but have you seen a exponential growth graph? for the first whatever it's teeny tiny.

>> No.6007722

>>6007712
UNLESS THT ONE FAGGOT AT NASA MAKES WARP DRIVE AND THAT'LL NEVER HAPPEN

oh please let it happen i don't want our species to end up guttering out in the dark as a little ugly tendril of weak, amorphous flame, I want us to be a god damn forest fire anon, remaking the universe as we go

fuck this shitty reality

>> No.6007723

>>6007720
and people forget what's it's like to be 14 when they turn 15...

>> No.6007725

Came someone reiterate to me how one species can be born from another species? That doesn't make any sense to me.

>> No.6007726

>>6007722
Sorry anon. Best you can hope for is us to be contacted by aliens and taken to another planet.

>> No.6007727

>>6007720
I bet you do. I don't. Shit was a decade ago.

>> No.6007728

>>6007722
I have a bit of hope. You believe this is a huge universe? It's also deep; that is, divisible, many times. The more we learn, the more we can create, the MORE we can do. Anon, stand up! Dance, and be happy, and don't forget

>> No.6007730

>>6007728
that there's always(italics) a chance(shivers).

>> No.6007732

>>6007728
>>6007730
There actually is no chance. The wider universe will be completely unattainable in our lifetime.

>> No.6007734

>>6007728
Only bourbon can ease my pain anon....

>> No.6007737

>>6007734
with this I will leave. When you need to ease pain, or feel good, do drugs. NEVER subordinate your mind to drugs meant to make you smarter.

>> No.6007741

>>6007725

First you need a grasp on exactly what "species" means. In sexually reproducing lifeforms, one "species" is distinguishable from another based on whether or not they can interbreed.

All domestic dogs, for example, are members of the same species, regardless of how different they appear on the surface, because they are all genetically capable of breeding with each other.

Generally speaking, the ability to breed with another creature is directly correlated to one's genetic similarity to it. This is not the correct number, but say for the sake of illustration that something needs to share at least 99% of your DNA to be capable of breeding with you. Keep this thought in mind as we move on.

Every time you reproduce, your offspring is essentially a shuffling of your and your partner's DNA plus some number (generally fairly small) of random mutations. These happen for the same reason that when you are typing something, you occasionally make a typo. Mistakes happen, even in the copying of DNA. These mutations cause your offspring to be a tiny, tiny, tiny bit genetically different from what it would be if there were no mutations. Say, for illustration, that this difference constitutes 0.001%.

With these numbers, any given offspring is about 99.999% the collective DNA of its parents, and 0.001% new DNA. Then, go on another generation. You get 99.998% original DNA. Keep going. After a thousand generations, you hit the magic 1% difference. After that, any offspring will be incapable of breeding with any given specimen from the original batch. That is what is known as speciation, or the emergence (not birth, because it doesn't happen overnight) of a new species.

Obviously this is oversimplified, and the numbers are not accurate and purely used for illustration, and I may have explained some things badly, or left some things out, but I hope you at least understand a bit of how it can happen.

>> No.6007781

>>6007741
Small addendum to this post:

The difference is multiplicative, not additive. If generation 1 is 1.000, generation 2 will be 1.000x0.999, generation 3 will be 1.000x0.999x0.999, etc. Therefore, the number of generations required for the speciation would only be about 105.

>> No.6007790

>>6007412
>How does it even make sense to you that we came from fish who crawled out of the ocean who eventually became monkey, who eventually became humans?
Because of the rich and compelling evidence.

>> No.6007795

OP is a victim of the appeal to incredulity

gg no re

>> No.6007828

>>6007790
>evidence

Dont you know that an all powerful, all knowing God who is pure love and truth, purposely made an evil deity of lies who planted those fossils just to deceive us and get us to burn in hell forever and ever and ever in abject, inhuman, indescribable pain and suffering?

>> No.6007847

>>6007717
The issue is that you piss on human beings achievements by not properly recognizing how ridiculously massive the universe is. The fact that life can evolve to the point where it can leave its own rock and land on another rock is huge in evolutionary terms. It might not be "travel from one side of the galaxy to the other in half an hour" level of tech, but we have still come far. One could even argue that from the standpoint of mental faculties, we're already at the point where we could reach those levels of tech, but we're still held back by our reptilian brain.

>> No.6009081

Would it make sense for celluar life to evolve into their respective environments rather than coming from the same primodial source?

>> No.6009087

>>6007526

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibian

>They are superficially similar to reptiles but, along with mammals and birds, reptiles are amniotes and do not require water bodies in which to breed.

>> No.6009104
File: 51 KB, 800x600, Human_Carnegie_stage_1-23.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6009104

How does it even make sense to you that we came from a single cell, which itself was the synthesization of two cells, which over the course of its development into a human child resembles a fish, reptile, bird and primate, which all began via replicating itself rapidly with mutation added?

How do you not realize how retarded that sounds? Do you just accept every image bred from a lab and hospital?

>> No.6009115

>>6009104
>How does it even make sense to you that we came from a single cell, which itself was the synthesization of two cells, which over the course of its development into a human child resembles a fish, reptile, bird and primate, which all began via replicating itself rapidly with mutation added?

I've spent 4 years of medschool reading about histology, embryology, genetics and several other less related subjects along with some personal studies out of interest.

But I guess your four hours of reading pro-ID articles searching taught you all that and some more.

>> No.6009118

>>6009115
I'm not seeing the point...

Does MD into physics, fractality and chemistry?

>> No.6009121

>>6009118
>Does MD into physics, fractality and chemistry?
Biophysics and chemistry, yes.

Is fractality even a word?

>> No.6009126

>>6009121
Biophysics? I may just love you. Wishing neurophysics was more prominent/widely available in the university system.

Hoping to do be in the same line of work in the future. 19 y/o Junior fag.

Eh, words were made up in the first place. As long as you understood what was implied haha.

"These ROOT-WORDS are the Suffixes TY & ITY which mean STATE OF & QUALITY." minus the caps

>> No.6009186

Can anyone point me to a scientific theory rejected on a hurt feelings basis more commonly than evolution?

>> No.6009191

>>6007545
Genetic differences are too big for the former group to reproduce with each other and thus they are deemed two groups

google (or search in talkorigins) witnessed speciation events

>> No.6009192

>>6007564
That's only one of the four types of speciation. Not sure if peripatric or sympatric. There are three more, and that remains a simplification.

>> No.6009210

>>6007700
So your objections are pure feelings now, ok.

>> No.6009212

>>6009186
hurt-feelings** you have to hyphenate adjectival phrases (:

>> No.6009214

>>6007700
Achieving great things from modest origins in more impressive than achieving great things already being some kind of chosen superior being, in my opinion. Taking the greatness for granted is what makes humans truly less impressive.

>> No.6009217

>>6007725
see
>>6009192
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation#Natural_speciation

And explain to me what part you don't understand. The fluidity of life being ever changing, ever evolving is pretty had to catch for some people.

>> No.6009243

Shit, is this stupid troll thread STILL on the front fucking page??

GET THE FUCK OUT ALREADY, JESUS CHRIST YOU ARE A BUNCH OF AUTISMALS

>> No.6009252

>>6009243

u ok?

>> No.6009299

>>6007415
Bloom's pyramid is a bitch.

>> No.6009319

>>6009186
Big Bang theory maybe.

Although it still doesn't come close.

>> No.6009324

Convergent evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution

Genome-wide signatures of convergent evolution in echolocating mammals
www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12511.html

scientists uncover genetic similarities between bats and dolphins
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/113396.html

>> No.6009359

>>6007412
Have you not studied it at all? Evolution has happened in recorded history, we have artificially caused evolution to create better crops, better pets, better live stock.

It is just adding up mutations that are either helpful, or don't change anything.

>> No.6009368
File: 118 KB, 750x500, Earth-Moon-system-and-gravity[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6009368

>>6007412
How does it even make sense to you that any two objects in space can just randomly attract to each other?

How do you not realize how retarded that sounds? DO you just accept everything that you're told?

>> No.6009404
File: 20 KB, 300x100, 175.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6009404

>>6007700
"You really think what we are is one step above fucking monkeys?"
> You're being subjective as fuck here. You're framing an opinion with certain words to make it sound ridiculous. You are equating the acceptance of evolution with the belief that we are "one step" above "fucking monkeys."

There are multiple implications here
>That being a primate is objectively a horrible thing
>That the gradual evolution of the human species over many thousands of years can be described as "just one step" when in fact it can just as arbitrarily be broken down into a trillion steps or more, depending on how well we want to focus on details. Even the utterance of a word by a single human mouth can be described in volumes of books if you wanted to go into the mechanisms of the voice box and the lungs, or the physics of it, etc. In each moment there is an eternity, and in each grain of sand, there is a universe of detail.
> The phrase "You really think" shows that you intend to ridicule the opinion, that is, make it seem ridiculous, without actually having any means by which to do so.

If you are indeed a troll, it is not our fault for taking your bait, but your fault for pretending to be a person who genuinely needs to be educated on matters which are important in contemporary human society.

>> No.6009408

Goddamnit OP just read some fucking books you nob.

>> No.6009434

wow this sucks. so are are just a bunch of mutation's. god really did not create us. can there not be any magic in this shit life?

>> No.6009437

>>6009434
"just"?

>> No.6009444

This is bait. But let's make it simple.
If you believe:
>Living organisms have DNA that controls their phenotype
>DNA replicates incorrectly some time
>Some phenotypes are more suited to an environment than others, and that causes the more suited phenotypes to survive
Then logically
>When DNA replicates incorrectly, it causes variation in phenotype. Variations that are more suited to an environment will have a higher chance of surviving.
Which is natural selection basically.

>> No.6009494

>>6009434
Evolution is pretty damn cool.
I'd call it magic.

>> No.6009496

>>6007412
> How does it even make sense to you that we came from fish who crawled out of the ocean who eventually became monkey, who eventually became humans?
Because evidence?

>How do you not realize how retarded that sounds?
It sounds retarded at first glance, but again evidence shows otherwise.

>Do you just accept everything that you're told?
No, I accept compelling evidence.

>> No.6009500

Probably bait, but what the hell. Go to Wikipedia and study evolution/england/peppered moth. If you do not after that, understand the simplicity and inevitability of evolution, then you are either a moron or a believer in some ancient silliness, and you either cannot or will not be helped.

>> No.6009503

>>6007564
First mistake: Assuming the "main group" doesn't mutate. It does. Both groups mutate at the same rate.

Second misunderstanding: A mutation happens in an individual. If it's a good mutation, it will have lots of children, and those children will have lots of children, and eventually the successful children multiply to go to 100% of the population. The mutation from a single individual over many generations becomes part of every individual. That's one way it could happen. It's just wrong to think in terms of "every individual has to have the same mutation at the same time".

>> No.6009506

>>6007580
The best evidences for common ancestry off the top of my head are:
1- the near exact coincidence of the morphological tree of life (which was discovered and known a century before Darwin) and the genetic tree of life (known only long after Darwin).
2- The geographic dispersal of species. All marsupials live in Australia. There's a reason for that.
3- The fossil evidence matching exactly the geologic age of the containing rocks. Ex: No fossilized rabbits in the pre-Cambrian.

>> No.6009507

Repeat after me: Evolution by natural selection is: The non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.

>> No.6009512

>>6007608
>It's actually a theory, and in order for anything to be a theory it has to be able to be disproven. That's an actual fact.
>But keep on blindly accepting things.
Easily disproven.
Examples:

Find a fossilized rabbit in the pre-Cambrian, or any other out of place fossil.

Find a species which does not have a spot on the modern tree of life. Every discovered animal fits nicely on modern cladistic diagrams. You don't find mammals with feathers. You don't find non-mammals with milk glands (IIRC). And so on. Compare and contrast this with more or less every fictional and created creature which is a cross of varying existing creatures. Such creatures do not fit nicely into taxonomic classification. All it would take is a single creature which has feathers but is otherwise a mammal.

Find a species whose spot on the genetic tree of life is wildly out of whack with its position on the taxonomic tree of life.

>> No.6009516

>>6007648
>infinitely more advanced
Nope. We happen to be very good long distance runners. We also happen to have slightly to significantly better spatial reasoning skills, language, memory, attention span, etc., and opposable thumbs. That helps.

>> No.6009514

>>6007644
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

>> No.6009529

>>6007648
Theist detected.

>> No.6009536

>Obvious troll thread

>100+ replies

>> No.6009760

>>6007426
Evolution is not about the origin of life.

>> No.6009773

>>6009760
it does discern between supernatural and natural origins though

>> No.6009778

>>6009773
no it doesn't. evolution would still be a valid if abiogenesis was by sky unicorn magic.

>> No.6009833

>>6009778
>sky unicorn magic
>not knowing we're the solid bits of when the cosmic spud sharted

Christ, is everyone on /sci/ this dumb?

>> No.6009834

>>6009512
>Find a fossilized rabbit in the pre-Cambrian, or any other out of place fossil.

There have been many. They are always "scrutinized" to the point where they are buried.

>> No.6009850

>>6009834

Show one.

>> No.6009854

>>6009512
Your ignorance is astounding. You are either underaged or american.

A precambrian rabbit would not disprove evolution. It would only force us to minimally remodel our phylogenetic tree in order to account for the earlier presence of rabbits.

>> No.6009945

>>6007562
That's how I feel too. Even knowing just its most basic concepts, it makes sense. And after you learn those most basic concepts and some details, you can figure more difficult shit out by yourself, and it simply fits.
I grew up in a catholic family and I never had a dilemma between creation and evolution, even as a kid I chucked creation as ridiculous.

>> No.6009948

>>6009760
That's why I said "life forms" and not just "life". Are you illiterate?

>> No.6010477

>>6009854
Peddantically, you are correct. The moral of this point is that if tomorrow we started finding fossils just all over the place in the geologic column, completely out of place, that would be a pretty good disproof of evolution. Or at least it would require a radical rewrite.

>> No.6011610

OP, if evolution is clearly a load o' crap, then what is the correct way the world works?

>> No.6011643

>>6009854
The Precambrian rabbit was first proposed as a falsifier of the theory of evolution by biologist J. B. S. Haldane. Is his ignorance astounding?

>> No.6011648

>>6007564
Google "sympatric speciation." It's actually been witnessed in the apple maggot fly.

>> No.6013512

>>6011643
You can't even into google?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precambrian_rabbit

>> No.6013747

>>6009854
Please stop making fun of all americans thank you.That is stereotyping

>> No.6015735

>>6011648
>the apple maggot fly

Is this the most important animal you can think of to support your point?