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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5960693 No.5960693 [Reply] [Original]

Can black holes have varying densities?

Also, if you were this close, how fucked are you in terms of escape velocity?

>> No.5960696

>>5960693
>if you were this close, how fucked are you in terms of escape velocity?
When you approach a black hole, you should have some kinetic energy. If you aren't a complete retard you make use of that to get away from it as well (or at least put yourself into a semi-stable orbit).

>> No.5960708

black holes only have three properties (besides position and linear momentum), four if monopoles exist
1. mass
2. angular momentum
3. electric charge
4. magnetic charge

>> No.5960716

>>5960708
>four if monopoles exist
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130531103910.htm

>> No.5960723

>>5960716
Artificial [...] Discovered
Just the title makes me want to bite somebody. How stupid can people be?

>> No.5960746

>>5960693

>if you were this close
There is no way to determine the distance in your picture.

The closer you are the harder it would be to pull away. Once you are across the even horizon you are fucked. Small black holes have more massive tidal forces. So you would be ripped apart far before you were near it. Extremely large black holes have smaller tidal forces and you would be across the event horizon before you even felt them.

>> No.5960756

>>5960716
don't post links to things you do not understand

thank you.

>> No.5960777

Even for a very large black hole, you would still essentially be ripped apart as you approached the event horizon, because the forces holding you together would not be able to travel fast enough. (Once you pass the horizon, there is obviously no force that can even hold individual molecules together).

>> No.5960792

>>5960777
>the forces holding you together would not be able to travel fast enough.
that's not how forces work.

>> No.5960949

Black holes have infinite density.

>> No.5960950

>>5960792
Actually he's right.

>> No.5960951

Of course black holes can be different! We don't know shit about them anyway. Some are certainly stronger and/or larger than others.

>>5960792
He means the difference in gravity from where your feet are to where your head is would be so significantly different your body would literally be ripped into something like spaghetti before your atoms completely dissolve.

>> No.5960992

>>5960693
by regular physics a more massive blackhole would have a higher density but i'm not sure if that holds up with a blackhole or if anyone knows whether or not it holds up.

>> No.5961001

>>5960992
No. Black holes have infinite density. They have no volume.

>> No.5961033

>>5961001
They don't have infinite density, and they have a volume. The implication you're making is the same one einstein's theory predicted. It's a flaw in the equation, just like division by zero is a flaw in our system of mathematics. We can't observe the inside of one, so we can't say what exactly happens, but to say it doesn't have a mass doesn't make any sense. inb4 infinite mass, infinity isn't a number

>> No.5961046

>>5961033
Of course it has a mass that isn't infinite, I never said that.

>> No.5961104

>>5961046
Yes you did? D=m/v. If the numerator is infinite, the density is infinite, which you explicitly said. If the volume is zero, the function is undefined, and the equation breaks down. It simply doesn't make sense

>> No.5961170

>>5961104
Actually it has no mass or volume. All thats left is the gravity.

>> No.5961183

>>5961170
>>5961104
>>5961046
>>5961033
>>5961001
>>5960693
>>5960992
>>5960949
Question is sort of unrelated, but answers are very relevant.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/24934/do-all-black-holes-have-a-singularity

>> No.5961187

>>5961033
>We can't observe the inside of one, so we can't say what exactly happens
This. The idea of a singularity is so ridiculous based on other things we've seen, that though it may be the case, we are better off guessing that there is a volume since we are really just guessing.

>> No.5961334
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5961334

So what's this stuff about black holes releasing radiation? Is it just that it's barely above the event horizon? If so, how's that considered radiation from the black hole itself?

>> No.5961339

>>5960792
The force carriers would literally be overpowered by the hole's gravity, it's insane

>> No.5961344

>>5961334
There's three ways Hawking Radiation can form

The first is matter successfully achieving escape velocity, which pulls momentum away from the hole. The second is one of an imaginary particle pair falling in before they can annihilate each other, so it looks like there's particles emanating from the hole. The third is a theoretical particle that actually neutralizes a black hole's mass when it falls in and converts it directly into gamma rays.

>> No.5961347

>>5961344
To add onto the particle pairs, the twin falling into the hole basically forces the other to be real, they would have never existed without the black hole's interference.

>> No.5961348

>>5961344
>particles neutralizing mass

oh lord that sounds terrifying

>> No.5961351

>>5961347
so if that imaginary particle fell in before it annihilates with the real counterpart,the real twin particle ends up exiting from the well of the black hole? im really confused as to how this occurs.

>> No.5961721

>>5961351
No, both are imaginary before anihilation, the only way either becomes real is through black hole interference. But yes, so it looks like a haze of "evaporation" emanating from the hole.

>> No.5962623

>>5961170
Trolling?

>> No.5962743

>>5961351
Imaginary is a poor term. They're entirely "real" but they disappear very quickly by annihilating each other. The radiation that escapes black holes is called hawking radiation.

>> No.5962912
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5962912

>>5961344
How does matter reach the escape velocity of a black hole? I thought black holes were 'black' because light couldn't escape them. I always thought the escape velocity of a black hole was faster than the speed of light, but if nothing can go faster than c... Meh? Could someone please explain?

>> No.5962931

Blackholes are just neutron stars with escape velocities that exceed c. So to answer OP's question: they vary in density as much as neutron stars. There will always be more at the core.

>> No.5962979

1. Probably. From my understanding, there is yet a correlation between density and the event horizon per se, but rather the amount of gravity and dimension tearing it creates.

Basically, there is a min and a max to the density variable, at least until you get into how far exactly you can shift dimensions and the quantum relationship for them. (if there is one.) At that point, you then end up in a position where "structure" as we know it can no longer interact with each other. Hell, it's so complicated that it is theoretically possible that some values will transmute in one way or another. (the components that make up the weak force, for instance behave as if they were the electro-magnetic force, for example.)

The best singularity-type I can think of that would be supportive would be a micro-verse that isn't quite complete, and would look similar and behave as if it were the theory for the rubber-band expansion/contraction introduction to the universe. The amount of tearing that happens might exceed the ratio of mass over volume that creates density itself, and as such provides a certain amount of room for the capture of additional particles.

2. If the singularity-system held true, then the expansion rate, capture rate would then have to be calculated over the change in particle-interactions. As such, keeping certain variable-interactions stable would alter the escape velocity for each and every particle. Compounded over keeping certain perceivable "reality-precepts" would further boost the derivative number over a set volume. The "escape velocity" would then change to traditional vector systems upon re-entry into normal space.

>> No.5963013

>>5962912

Previous poster didn't report it accurately. Matter didn't fully cross the event horizon.