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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 111 KB, 1710x1282, elon-musk-calls-this-diagram-the-best-guess-so-far-for-what-hes-going-do-with-the-hyperloop[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5959793 No.5959793 [Reply] [Original]

So, what's the deal with this Hyperloop stuff?

>> No.5959797

>>5959793

I'll let you know in 3 days.

>> No.5959820

>>5959797
Well, yeah, but what about now?

Is /sci/ excited?

>> No.5959830

>>5959820
>Well, yeah, but what about now?

If you have that image, you pretty much know as much as anyone.

>Is /sci/ excited?

I'm too cynical to be "excited," but I am interested.

>> No.5959833

Hovercraft in a tube, pulled by linear motor.

Low air resistance when the tube is busy because the tube keeps the air pushed by one car flowing in line with the other cars.

>> No.5959844

>>5959830
I just google searched the image.

>> No.5959848

I'm not excited about it. It's just another mass transit scheme that will take too much up-front money and need too many people to agree to do it.

>> No.5962904

>Hyperloop
Tomorrow!

>> No.5962932

>>5959793

Some billionaire jerk and lazy over hyped media that pushed it and all the lower run tech and media nerds are pushing it to fill up column space.

>> No.5962982

I want it to be true.

However, I'm sure this is going to be the biggest disappointment since the Segway.

>> No.5963003

Why not have a real investment in a continent wide hydrology system that extends the already plentiful river system. Which is then used to transport huge amount of products and raw materials by boat which will basically cost next to nothing in energy cost. Then use that Hydology/River system to build an electrical grid that is built underground(who the fuck wants to see those ugly power lines?) and extend that to towns/cities that would consume it. Why not spend time and money to do that???

>> No.5963006

>>5963003
Then you could develop a mass transit system that is fast and reliable because it could be built on a sound infrastructure...

>> No.5963080

>>5962982
The segway was supposed to be some big thing?

>> No.5963084

i'm expecting at the very least a transport system that delivers on the promised speed with high safety and low operating costs.

i'm hoping installation and maintenance costs will be low too. i can see how it would be cheap , safe and fast as fuck to float a capsule through a tube from la to new york.

i don't see how we could economically build the tube.

>> No.5963089

>>5963084
>i'm
>i'm
>i
>cheap ,
>i

But silliness aside,


>>5963084
>i'm hoping installation and maintenance costs will be low too. i can see how it would be cheap , safe and fast as fuck to float a capsule through a tube from la to new york.

>i don't see how we could economically build the tube.

These statements seem to contradict each other. You say you can see how it would be cheap, including what you said in the previous sentence, then you say you don't see how it would be economical?

>> No.5963093

>>5962982
yeah but i think that guy drove a segway off a cliff, elon musk has started the first successful all electric car company

>> No.5963104

>>5963089
>You say you can see how it would be cheap
He said its operation looks cheap. Not the building of the tunnels.

>> No.5963124

>>5963104
>>5963089
yeah i don't think it would take much energy to operate such a system if it was working perfectly but i'm hoping this guy isn't just hoping other people will solve the problem of how to build and maintain such a huge infrastructure.

>> No.5963133

>>5962982
The reason the Segway failed is that nobody was hyped for it in the first place.
So there wasn't much of a disappointment except for the investors.

>> No.5963160

>>5963080
>>5963133

Prior to being released, the Segway was touted as something that would be "bigger than television" and "bigger than the Internet".

>> No.5963165

>>5963160
By marketers only and clueless journalists.
People didn't give a fuck. If they did, they would have bought it.
There was nothing wrong with the segway technically, it worked. People just didn't give a fuck.

>> No.5963181

segways would great for big cities compared to cars/taxis/buses/subways if everyone had one and there were lanes for them.

good luck getting that to happen though

>> No.5963399

How long until the reveal?

>> No.5963418

>>5963133
Wrong. It was hyped to hell and back. The reason Segway failed is because they cost a stupid ridiculous amount of money for a machine that is, itself, somewhat stupid and ridiculous and is easily replaced by cars, bicycles, and walking.

>> No.5963422

>>5963418
The reason it failed is because the engineers were retarded, some university students made one at a fraction of the cost a while back.

>> No.5963428

>>5963418
>Wrong. It was hyped to hell and back.
No, fucking no. Spending a lot of money on ad doesn't qualify as hype.
Clueless journalists hyped it, but nobody thought "hey, I can see myself on that", which is the problem.
Riding one makes you look like a huge dork.

>> No.5963613

>>5963084
>i don't see how we could economically build the tube.
Tube printers.

>> No.5963616

>>5963428
i think you are confusing 'hype' and 'usefullness'

>> No.5963701

4:30 PM ET apparently.

>> No.5964005

>>5963701
Well?

>> No.5964008

http://gizmodo.com/our-hyperloop-liveblog-starts-right-here-at-5-pm-et-2pm-1110567755

?

>> No.5964012
File: 33 KB, 605x391, 0812_Hyperloop_605[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964012

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-12/revealed-elon-musk-explains-the-hyperloop

>> No.5964024

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/12/4614940/elon-musk-reveals-plans-for-high-speed-hyperloop
http://live.theverge.com/live-hyperloop-announcement-elon-musk/
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/12/4614124/live-blog-elon-musk-hyperloop-announcement

>> No.5964032

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/hyperloop

>> No.5964037

>>5964024
>half an hour
I'm hyped.

>> No.5964039

>>5964037
>implying

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperloop-alpha.pdf

>> No.5964059

>>5964039
backup link, server was being overloaded a few minutes ago
http://puu.sh/40rfB.pdf

>> No.5964066

Monorail! Monorail! Monorail!

>> No.5964069

>>5964066
But there's no rail

>> No.5964067

>>>/g/35974257

>> No.5964068
File: 973 KB, 312x213, doompaulitshappening.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964068

>dem sleek aluminum pods

>> No.5964071
File: 58 KB, 1023x768, hyperloop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964071

>> No.5964072

>>5963093
>drove a segway off a cliff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Kamen

>> No.5964084

this is a better link to the pdf, somethings fucked up about the other pdf:


http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf

>> No.5964087
File: 25 KB, 575x379, hyperloop2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964087

This thing looks sexy as shit.

>> No.5964088

>>5964084
He's updating it, that's why.
Last minute changes. That's really an engineer thing to do.

>> No.5964091

I thought this thing was supposed to operate inside a vacuum tube?

>> No.5964092

>>5964091
He said months ago that it didn't.

>> No.5964093

>>5964091
Nope, there's air.

>> No.5964097

>>5964091
Partial vacuum. Low pressure.

>> No.5964098
File: 2 KB, 125x131, didsomeonesay.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964098

>mfw

>> No.5964101

>>5964092
>>5964093
>>5964097
Ah.
That's kind of disappointing.

Does this mean we wont be seeing a thousand mph, intercontinental, hyperloop in the next few decades?

>> No.5964103

>>5964101
Only if we manage to create tubes that can manage near-perfect vacuums for large amounts of time with low maintenence

>> No.5964108

>>5964101
It was never supposed to be intercontinental. It's supposed to fill the gap between distances that are too long to drive an electric car without a recharge, and distances that are too short to buy a plane ticket.

The new detail is that there's low pressure in the tube. So they are pressure vessels, just not to the extreme of being vacuum tubes.

>> No.5964107

>>5964101
It's 1220 km/h at cruise speed.

>> No.5964109

>>5964101
>intercontinental
It's obviously not gonna happen soon at all, but oh boy what a dream living in such a world would be.

>> No.5964112

>>5964109
"Hey mom, I'm going to London for lunch with a friend and an interview"

"Okay hun, be back by dinner!"

>> No.5964116

>>5964112
Even starting in New York, that's still a five-hour trip one way.

>> No.5964119
File: 38 KB, 338x430, 1361657263000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964119

>>5964112
>>5964109
>tfw I live in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and would probably be the last place to get a hyperloop station.

>> No.5964122

>>5964116
>five-hour trip
Holy shit I didn't calculate that, that's even shorter than I thought.
It takes me more time to visit my parent's.

>> No.5964132

>>5964116
That's only a bit longer than my daily commute on a bad day.

>> No.5964140

>>5964122
But that's just the ride time.

You'd better believe if it was a ride on an intercontinental tube, there'd be heavy security on both ends.

A 747 ride doesn't take much longer, it's all the bullshit with getting a ticket and going through security and checking your baggage that makes it so you can't skip over to London for lunch and be home in time for bed.

>> No.5964143

>>5964140
It's partly true.
A lot of the delay is also due to the logistics of the fleet itself. There is no such problem on the tube.

>> No.5964149

>>5964140
Also the costs of tickets have the potential to be much lower.

>> No.5964148

>>5964140
But there's no flight corridors.
These fuckers start every thirty seconds.

I remember when the German pilot on a flight started ranting to the passengers that the Spanish fucktards were too fucking lazy to clear the flight corridor, meaning that we would have to wait an hour for the next one.

>> No.5964163

>>5964149
An intercontinental tube wouldn't be cheap to build.

>> No.5964240

Having looked at the concept in detail, I see serious problems with actually doing it.

The passenger-only system appears to lack any reasonable hope of handicapped access. That makes it a non-starter nowadays.

Both versions lack windows. That's also a real problem. People will feel like they're being sealed into a coffin.

I also feel that they have seriously underestimated the required budget.

This is something that's not going to happen.

>> No.5964242

>>5964112
But that'd require for the US to open their borders a little more.
Going twice through heavy security checks in one day can be really off-putting.

>> No.5964263

Everyone forgets that California already passed the bill for their high-speed rail. There's no way in hell that they will let anything about the Hyperloop happen after dropping 68 billion dollars into a slow "high-speed" train.

>> No.5964272

>>5964263
I'm would bet that the UAE will be the first to invest in and build a hyperloop.

>> No.5964303

From the pdf: "Safety and security are paramount, and so security checks will still be made in a similar fashion as TSA does for the airport."

Fan-fucking-tastic. Hope you're ready to be cavity-searched before sealing yourself into the transport coffin.

>> No.5964302

>>5964119

Where?

>> No.5964305

>>5964240

The capsules have no windows because the tube isn't transparent, I think.

>> No.5964315

>>5964305
Obviously. That doesn't make it less of a problem.

>> No.5964312

>>5964303
"There would be a luggage limit of 2 bags per person, for no more than 110 lb (50 kg) in total."
"Hyperloop staff will take care of loading and unloading passenger luggage in order to maximize efficiency."

This sounds less and less pleasant and convenient as you read more.

They're supposed to be able to do all of this for $20? Bullshit.

>> No.5964316
File: 93 KB, 400x399, 1376345681196[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964316

If it floats on air, and isn't attached to a track/rail, and can bank freely, how will it accelerate?

>> No.5964327

>>5964316
Linear motors. Magnets in the track will get it up to speed, then it will coast though the low-pressure tube with a big fan/compressor on the front sucking up air to blow through the "air hockey" skis.

>> No.5964324

>>5964316
Electromagnetism?

>> No.5964331

>>5964327
So it's on a track at the beginning, then just coasts?

>> No.5964330

>>5964327
...and to blow out the back, producing a little motive force, but mostly to reduce air resistance.

>> No.5964333

>>5964331
More or less. They say it's an induction motor track that accelerates it, and the fan that makes it able to maintain the speed.

>> No.5964338

>>5964333
>They say it's an induction motor track that accelerates it,
That sounds like a bad idea for the people in the wagon.
Why accelerate all the way to 1000km/h at once and not slowly?
How many Gs are they planning to go with?

>> No.5964342

The "permits and land" estimate, at exactly $1 billion (pinky to mouth) is a suspiciously round figure, leading to suspicion it was pulled from round oriface.

>> No.5964353

>>5964338
less than one

>> No.5964365

So you would be propelled at the speed of sound In a windowless coffin. They say its safe, bullshit In such a large system things are bound to go wrong especially considering they want the tubes to be the cheapest part. If there is a problem with one pod how many will pile up in a mega explosion considering they will leave every 2 minutes?

>> No.5964371
File: 115 KB, 1136x640, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964371

And what happens when the black cunt In front of you reclines his chair back on you! Your fucked!

>> No.5964402

>>5964371
what if u need to use the bathroom!?!

>> No.5964405

>>5964402
This is from the SpaceX people. You do it like an astronaut.

Man, just let it go.

>> No.5964406
File: 30 KB, 559x515, 1353223345856.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964406

Amazing

>> No.5964409

>>5964402
LA to SF in 30min, if you can't hold it for that long then you got medical problems and should bring a diaper.

>> No.5964411

>>5964405
so i have to attach a tube to my penis? what if the tube has already been used by another male?

>> No.5964412

>>5964338
>>5964353
even still, shit, you'd have to go essentially in a prefect, straight line, right? good fucking luck with that going from LA to SF...or anywhere, really.

>> No.5964415

So it's a 300 mile long pressure vessel.

People can fuck it up just by shooting holes in it anywhere along 300 miles of tube. A bad foundation on or damage to any one of thousands of pylons will fuck up the whole thing until it's fixed.

Good luck with that.

>> No.5964417

>>5964412
Here's the detailed proposal:
http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf

They've got a route laid out. It's not a straight line, and I don't see why you'd think it would need to be.

It's a hovercraft in a tube. It coasts through wide-radius curves just fine.

>> No.5964424

>>5964071
we future now.

>> No.5964425

>>5964424
Do you even future?

>> No.5964427

>>5964424
That's a funny sort of reaction to a concept sketch.

>> No.5964436

>>5964417
didn't read the PDF, sorry i suck. I was assuming it'd over 1g, which would suck for any real length of time. But looks like they have a route that keeps it under .5gs.
But good luck getting that route w/o billions and billions of dollars and over 9,000 eminent domain claims. Cali sucks for that kind of thing.

>> No.5964438

>>5964424
it's happeningg!!!!!!!!

>> No.5964441

>>5964436
>good luck getting that route w/o billions and billions of dollars and over 9,000 eminent domain claims
I know, right? Their estimate for the land and permits somehow comes out to exactly $1 billion.

But it does mostly run along the existing highway system.

>> No.5964443
File: 1.59 MB, 320x240, 1375124450699.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964443

Just absolutely awful. Hmmm, a 700mph loop with a near vacuum and a 200-300 mph wind tunnel? Has anyone ACTUALLY thought about this? The main problem (and there are many) is that the entire loop would ALWAYS have to work PERFECTLY. A rail can break or have disruptions without issue. Not genius, not earth shattering, just trying to get attention. Oh, and how many people can ride the tube of death per day? Um, not nearly as a high-speed train.

And before anyone says "Addressed, blah blah blah" please think about how he addresses the issue. It's not at all practical.

>> No.5964455

>>5964436
It will be built next to existing roads I.e the 1-5

>> No.5964460

>>5964441
and it doesn't look like it tries to get into LA proper- looks like it goes to Sylmar or something (which is actually smart cuz that's where 3 major LA freeway meet). But the Sac. Valley and interior areas of Cali are super Republican, and hate the SHIT out of anything like this.

>> No.5964468

>>5964443
If one car can be made ready to go at a station every 2 minutes, and each one carries 28 people, 860 passengers can be transported out of each station per hour. So 860 per hour one way, and 860 per hour the other way simultaneously, if there's that much demand on both ends.

It only provides transport between two points: SF and LA. The High-Speed Rail that Musk is complaining about will provide transport between about 25 stations. With windows, and without depending on developing several all-new technologies.

>> No.5964469

This is a huge disappointment.

>> No.5964484

>>5964468
It would carry less than one-tenth the traffic of the High-Speed Rail system.

>> No.5964505

>>5964443
>A rail can break or have disruptions without issue.
High-speed trains going off the rails aren't pretty.

On the other hand, damaging the rails badly enough to cause a derailment would take more than a deer rifle and a box of shells.

>> No.5964508

>>5964468
That's on the premesis one departs every 2 minutes however he was talkin of even one every 30 seconds, but still I agree it's stupid idea.

>> No.5964516

"Beautiful landscape will be displayed in the cabin"

Yes, because people have always accepted posters of nice scenery as an equally-comforting alternative to actual windows.

>> No.5964549

>>5964443
Damaging the rails is probably not going to be easy. They are sealed air-tight against the outside, and from the inside they are never touched either - except by an air stream.

Well, temperature, lousy mechanics or lazy upkeep would do the trick.

>> No.5964552

>>5964516
What they need is a TV set in every cabin and free wireless internet.

>> No.5964554

>>5964305
Subways don't have transparent walls, but they still have windows on the trains.

The problem is that windows would hurt the structural integrity of the pod, if someone tried to blow it up the pod couldn't contain the explosion it would blow crap all over the tube through the windows. They might have to shut down service until the whole thing can be cleaned.

>> No.5964557

>>5964552
They'll have seatback entertainment, like on aircraft. I don't know about internet.

>> No.5964559

>>5964549
They're pressure tubes. The interior pressure is only 0.1% of what's outside. All you'd have to do is shoot them with a rifle, air would rush in like mad.

Ever been out in the country? Dumbasses with rifles abound. Signs are full of bulletholes.

>> No.5964565

>>5964101
well its a step towards that, with current technology a full vacuum is impossible, partial is feasible

>> No.5964569
File: 572 KB, 600x656, MUSK FOR LIFE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964569

lurking

>> No.5964573

>>5964569
He has a face of a sadist.

>> No.5964575
File: 937 KB, 259x187, tumblr_m9ei8yNgTa1r4ugi5o1_400.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964575

>>5964559
That tube is going to be 20-23mm thick steel, I don't think anything short of a .50 is going to be poking holes in it without some good AP ammo. All you are going to get from a normal rifle round is pic related.

>> No.5964578

>>5964575
It's not armor plate, and you've got 99.9% of atmospheric pressure on your side. Ordinary high-power rifle ammunition has a lot of penetrating power.

Anyway, do you think .50 cal is hard to come by? I could get a .50 cal rifle and ammunition easily enough even in Canada.

>> No.5964583

>>5964578
Right but you don't have to worry about the average idiot with a gun. Somebody isn't going to poke holes in it just because they missed their backstop.

Past that a determined individual can take out anything. You don't halt progress because there are a few assholes around.

>> No.5964585

MAYBE WE CAN USE THESE PNEUMATIC TUBES TO SEND MAIL TOO?

LOOK OUT TELEGRAPH

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

In all honnesty, this idea is butfuck retarded

>> No.5964590

>>5964583
There's a big difference between a thing possibly being done by a determined individual, and that same things possibly being done by a bored individual who is almost impossible to catch.

That's 300 miles of tube, which you can shoot from a mile away and is as easy to hit as the broad side of a barn. It probably won't kill anyone, and the shooter gets to feel smug and mischievous for shutting the fancy new system down for days or weeks.

This is a problem they noticed with airships: on cross-country voyages, they inevitably picked up bulletholes along the way. People who won't shoot at a car or low-flying aircraft, where they're likely to hit a person, will freely take potshots at a blimp or hyperloop tube, where they're most likely just doing property damage.

Anyway, I already pointed out that I don't think it'll stop ordinary stuff like a .30-06 either. Deer guns are powerful, 20 mm is not very thick, and these tubes have a lot of structural strain and air pressure on them.

>> No.5964625

>>5964590
I have seen 3/8" steel stop .30-06 hunting rounds just fine and we are talking about a tube wall thats at a minimum over twice as thick. Sure you might get some minor dents but without armor piercing ammunition you are not going to get penetration. Chances are they will be using something a bit better than some angle iron form a hardware store as well.

Still, even if there are chances that some idiot will take pot shots at it that is hardly a reason hold up the plan. If they really ended up finding this was an issue they could strap sandbags to it or something and it would still be worth doing.

And as for "lots of structural strain and air pressure on them" I don't think less than 15 PSI of air pressure is going to make any significant difference in how well a bullet is going to penetrate it.

>> No.5964629

>>5964625
>they could strap sandbags to it or something
Along 300 miles of it? Can they also quadruple the strength of the pylons holding it up, to hold up all of that additional weight?

>I don't think less than 15 PSI of air pressure is going to make any significant difference in how well a bullet is going to penetrate it.
How much stronger is it than it needs to be otherwise, if a bullet impact doesn't affect its ability to hold that pressure?

>> No.5964640

>>5964629
Its strong enough to support itself across 30 meter spans while a 3,100-3,500 kg shuttle rockets through it at 1220 kph while surviving earthquakes and storms for 100 years. Its designed to do a bit more than just hold out air.

>> No.5964647

>>5964640
Those other strains aren't going to go away because someone put a bullet dent in it. That's still going to be a weakened point.

>> No.5964662

>>5964647
The only place you are really going to have a chance to shoot it and make a difference is going to be directly on the sides, too high or too low and its going to deflect off more than actually try to penetrate. The sides are also not as important to load bearing as the top and bottom are (think about why I beams are shaped the way they are).

Also any dent in the side is not going to be anywhere near the ski's and that is the only part that even comes close to touching the wall of the tube. Even on a fairly sharp corner pulling that maximum of .5 g its designed for you are not going to be anywhere close to the dentable area unless your dumbass with a .50 cal is standing under it.

On top of all of this you have the fact that the whole system is designed to work without being perfectly air tight anyways. Sure if you manage to hit the thing with a .50 cal SLAP round or 10 you will impact its efficiency but it should be able to cope at least until somebody can get out there and patch it up.

>> No.5964697

>>5964662
>the whole system is designed to work without being perfectly air tight anyways
That doesn't mean it's designed to work with big holes in unexpected places.

>> No.5964714
File: 200 KB, 500x626, von karman gabrielli diagram update.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5964714

>>5959793
According to the Von Karmen Gabrielli diagram it's an incredibly efficient means of transportation

Specific tractive power is 0.007
Speed is 1130 kph

Look it up for yourself on pic related, this baby's got the speed of a concorde, but's using about the same power per weight as a locomotive.

Only problem is, they haven't performed any real world tests and they seem a bit iffy about their power requirements.

The whole compressor set up seems awfully complicated with the need to change not just batteries, but steam and water tanks

>> No.5964726

>>5964240
>Both versions lack windows. That's also a real problem. People will feel like they're being sealed into a coffin.
who cares? everyone is looking down at their iPads, laptops, and smartphones anyway.

>> No.5964730

>>5964726
Can you even read those at such velocities? Isn't the doppler effect going to totally blur the image of every digital source?

>> No.5964735

>>5964730
>confusing velocity with acceleration
I hope you're trolling

>> No.5964741

>>5964714
I think the whole point of this is to get the idea out there in the corridors of power. Because the next step isn't to build real thing, it is to get the grant money to build the demonstrator.

This is one of those ideas that should be researched just because it is potentially so promising. And it really ought to be funded by the government because it is so capital intensive. Like more advanced solar and nuclear fission, and nuclear fusion.

>> No.5964760

This kooky scheme actually seriously undercut my confidence in SpaceX.

It fits too well with what other people are saying to support claims that SpaceX won't make it: they underestimate the difficulty of things and the time and money they take, they're sloppy about key details, head in the clouds, etc.

>> No.5964762

>>5964760
I left out, "bullshitting like mad to get government hand-outs and sweetheart contracts".

>> No.5964771

>>5964730
b8

>> No.5964776

>>5964760
getting handouts and programs is exactly what makes newer companies work.

Also, their employees willingly work 50 hours a week, so they can get plenty done.

>> No.5964787

>>5964443
>>5964443
>>5964443
DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE THE EXTREMELY DISTURBING PICTURE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS POST?

>> No.5964791

>>5964776
That's bullshit. Not all newer companies get handouts.

In terms of actual launches, all SpaceX has done is recreate and apply existing technology, none-too-economically. Similarly, Tesla has only put out some expensive and impractical sports and luxury cars and a few charging stations.

Their accomplishments to date have been largely symbolic. People are excited about what they will do, not what they have done.

>> No.5964792

>>5964787
What's disturbing about it? This is how babysitters typically behave after the parents are gone. It helps toughen the kids up to the realities of life.

>> No.5964799

>>5964552
Then I won't ride in one. Imagine the hordes of people fapping to porn in these.

come to think of it, knowing humanity in general, I might not want to ride one unless im in hazmat..

>some joker left a huge turd in the cabin
>didn't notice until the doors had closed

>> No.5964807

>>5964787
Looks like my childhood, nothing disturbing about it.
>>5964799
People already do this on the bus and the trains, I see something like that every day.

>> No.5964810

>>5964799
well it's only for 30 minutes.

>> No.5964819

>>5964799
Yeah, this sounds like it combines all the pleasures of a bus trip, a plane trip, and an elevator ride.

>> No.5965399

>>5964819
>and an elevator ride.
At least you get a seat.

>> No.5965478

>>5964578
>>5964575
.50 caliber bolt action rifles are illegal in California.
Also, you're all being dumb, it's been stated multiple times that this thing runs at low pressure, not near-vacuum
Why do people keep assuming this?

>> No.5965540

>>5964559
>Signs are full of bulletholes.

Are passenger trains also full of bulletholes?

>> No.5965551

>>5964819
>a bus trip, a plane trip, and an elevator ride.

or, you know, a train ride

>> No.5965578

>>5964791

And there's a good reason for all of that, because symbolism is not only cheaper than actual accomplishment, but it REPLACES actual accomplishment when said accomplishment becomes economically impossible to perform.

After all, without cheap oil, our civilization will start slipping back into the 1930s. Desperate attempts to liquify coal and use NG cars will sustain that for a time, then further fossil depletion and increasing costs will push our civilization back to the 1890s. This too will continue for a time, until all options deplete and all costs can't be met, and then the final collapse will occur, where Western Civilization will collapse back to the eternal position of the 1850s... totally pre-fossil fuels.

Musk and his kin and ilk will probably do quite well, at least once the Resource Wars finally exhaust themselves. The rich and the elite will always have recourse to powered transportation. But the entire culture of powered transportation will collapse. There will be a new order that after 150-200 years from now, will look pretty much like the USA looked in the 1850s.

Cheap energy was a gift, and a curse. We got used to it, but it's running out, and nothing replaces the cheap energy from fossil fuels. Nothing CAN.

>> No.5965619

>>5964371

And here's another thing: Every transportation system today gives you the ability to get up, walk around, and puke, piss and shit. The Hyperscam doesn't. Therefore it's legally impossible, even practically impossible, to build for usage.

Assuming the pic is correct, Musk is proposing a PIPELINE FOR PEOPLE. People aren't liquids. People aren't cargo.

>> No.5965645

>>5964409
They better have a serious line of toilets just before the embarkment line then.

>> No.5965651

>>5965619
>tfw some drunk guy pukes in the capsule just after you left

>> No.5965694

>>5964415
With air infiltration in the tube and with that thing traveling at near-sonic speed.

one flat tin can of mackerel coming up!

>> No.5965756

>>5959848
This, and the fact that it only seats 28 people has me less than enthused.

>> No.5965758
File: 30 KB, 298x237, 1349266779865.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5965758

>>5964087
You think shit looks sexy?

>> No.5965762

>>5965756
>fact that it only seats 28 people has me less than enthused.
Why? That's the whole point, so you don't have to wait for a departure.

>> No.5965763

>>5964411
>what if the tube has already been used by another male?
>Specifying gender
Does it really matter?

>> No.5965764

>>5965762
Because it will be expensive as fuck.

>> No.5965769

>>5965764
What does the capsule size have to do with anything?

>> No.5965774

>>5965772
Boy I'm glad you put the trip back on.

>> No.5965772
File: 39 KB, 279x382, 1355448509644.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5965772

>>5965769
Size matters.

>> No.5965775

>>5965774
Back on?
I never took it off.
If you had a problem with someone else, you should take it up with them, nignog.

>> No.5965814

>>5965478
>it's been stated multiple times that this thing runs at low pressure, not near-vacuum
It's one thousandth the pressure of the surrounding air. One-sixth of Mars air pressure. You've got 99.9% of the air out of the tube, that would be in it if if just had open windows. That's near-vacuum.

>> No.5965819

>>5965540
Covered that with the blimp example. People don't shoot passenger trains because there are likely to be people inside. If you shoot at the tube, you can't see a car, and it's vanishingly unlikely that one will be where you're shooting.

>> No.5965825

>>5965551
In trains, you can get up and move to another car if you're with some obnoxious people, you can look out through the window, and I don't think you need to go through airline-like security.

>> No.5965841

>>5965772
It really doesn't, in this case. There's no real limit on how often you can launch a car (although at some point, it stop being solar-powered and needs to run off the grid).

You can load up 100 cars at the same time and launch them all 10 seconds apart. Now it's practically the same as a system where the car is 2800 people.

Car size just doesn't matter, except for lack of amenities.

>> No.5965996

>>5965841

Speaking of amenities, where are the means of emergency egress?

> Hyperloop
> some transport system that's actually possible under economics and law

>> No.5966016

>>5965825

There is no reason this would require any more security than a train, and this would take 1/10th the time of an equivalent train ride.

>> No.5966019

>>5965996
>the means of emergency egress?

to be used under what circumstances?

>> No.5966038

>>5965764
Not really. It may only seat 28 people, but they are planning on launching a capsule every 2 minutes (up to every 30 seconds during rush hours).

>> No.5966059

>>5966019
Any significant air leak will cause an increase in air density that will dramatically increase air resistance and render the cars unable to reach their destinations.

You're basically throwing them at the start and depending on them to coast to the destination, with only a slight boost from from the onboard electric jet system.

So if anything interferes with this coasting, you're going to have to get out and walk to a maintenance access.

>> No.5966068

"Hyperloop" is a dumb name for it. Doesn't tell you what you're getting at all. Maybe it should have been "Tubejet".

>> No.5966106

>>5966104
Perfect.

>> No.5966104

>>5966068
how about the Tube Intercity Transport System?

>> No.5966111

>>5966104
TITS?
I like that.

>> No.5966120

>>5966059
What about the fact that it only decelerates at the end of the tube so it wouldn't be able to easily break in mid transport.
That's a problem if they send many cars in short succession and something causes one of them to slow down or stop.

>> No.5966123

>>5966120
They have emergency brakes.

>> No.5966127
File: 127 KB, 351x330, 1363726092588.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5966127

>>5966123
Holes in the floor that the passengers put their feet through?

>> No.5966138

>>5966127

No, a miniature landing gear. Have you even read the paper?

>> No.5966141

>>5966120
>it only decelerates at the end of the tube
Only true if the tube and car are both working properly.

If there's a problem with the tube, air resistance is too high and the car can't travel at high speeds, and very possibly can't go uphill or otherwise continue moving on battery power for the full length of the journey.

If there's a problem with the car, the skids hit the rails, you lose speed, and you can't get going again.

You may also lose cabin pressure, and the pressure in the tube is near vacuum (0.1% of sea level, whereas the air outside of a cruising jet is generally at least 14% of sea level air pressure).

>> No.5966142

>>5966138
No I'm carnitarian.
I don't eat or use anything that comes from the suffering of plants.

>> No.5966149

>>5966142
Wouldn't that be carnan? A carnitarian would just not eat any vegetable matter.

>> No.5966153

>>5966149
Yeah, but carnan just sounds like some weird shit a hollywood couple would name their child.

>> No.5966170

>>5966153
Where do you buy your bone furniture?

>> No.5966179

>>5966170
I don't. I make it. What does that have to do with anything though? We're talking about the hyperloop here.

>> No.5966222

>>5966179
Nothing like hunt your own food and make furniture with the bones.

On topic. Would any of you volunteer for the maiden voyage of the hyperloop?

>> No.5966232

>>5966222
Not a chance.

>> No.5966253

>>5964760

SpaceX is different from Musk's other bullshit. Criticisms of this concept are correct, but in the different context of applying those same criticisms to SpaceX, they are wrong. SpaceX is competant and well run and competitive. Take it from me, a random stranger on the internet.

Or: SpaceX is a company with 3000 people and they have had many years to work on and refine their area of business. The hyperloop meanwhile is just a goofy idea, and at the goofy idea stage. SpaceX's goofy idea was better than hyperloop's: build cheaper rockets. SpaceX is well past teh goofy idea page, and they have shed bad ways of pursuing it and have refined and come up with an excellent course to realizing the aim.

With SpaceX you just need to be patient over the next few years as they get their launch system up and running, but the work for that is already in the pipeline.

People will have to be wary of the opposite of your post's concern. SpaceX is likely going to be a great success. By the end of this decade they will be launching people into space and a rocket every month. The trick will be not to let the success of SpaceX enhance the view of Musk's other goofy ideas like hyperloop. I'm probably overhyping that concern.

>> No.5966256

The answer to a lot of realistic concerns seems to be, "Whoever does it will do a really good job so these problems just won't come up."

In the event of sudden capsule depressurization, what happens is that the passengers all die, because this is basically the equivalent of being thrown out of an airlock. (0.1% of sea level atmospheric pressure is biologically equivalent to vacuum)

In the event of the capsule losing power completely, the answer is basically, "Well, shit. Then you're fucked." The methods for handling capsule power failure depend on the capsule still having power somehow.

And he says they'll have airport-like TSA security, but they'll somehow streamline it so it'll be totally secure and yet also totally fast and convenient. At $20/ticket, processing a thousand passengers per hour. Orly?

Just nevermind about the 300 miles of readily-accessible tube, if someone wants to fuck shit up.

>> No.5966261

>>5966253
>With SpaceX you just need to be patient over the next few years as they get their launch system up and running
...or fall flat on their faces as they try to make the transition from crawling to running.

>> No.5966283

>>5966256
>thinks the tube will enclose a vacuum

next time try actually reading before you shitpost.

>> No.5966285

why does it go to LA?

that place is a shithole has been city with no real potential anymore.

>> No.5966287

>>5966141
you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

>> No.5966294

>>5966283
You read it. Pressure inside the tube is one thousandth sea level.

For the mechanical systems maintaining the pressure difference, this is a lot more reasonable than maintaining a hard vacuum. So this is the sense in which they can say it's "not vacuum".

But to a human body, this is effectively vacuum. Being thrown into this is being thrown out an airlock.

>> No.5966298

>>5966294
The tubes are capable or rapid re-pressurization in case of emergencies.

It's like no one here even ready the paper.

>> No.5966301

>>5966287
If you want to argue the specifics, then do so. Posting like this is just being another ape making noise on the internet.

>> No.5966309

>>5966298
>The tubes are capable or rapid re-pressurization in case of emergencies.
Fast enough to save passengers if there's a slow leak, NOT fast enough to save them in the event of sudden capsule depressurization.

Thrown out an airlock.

You're taking the hand-waving "it won't be a problem because it just won't" stuff way too uncritically.

>> No.5966312

>>5966285

this

LA is shit. Besides theirs an increase influx of assholes in the bay area as it is. We don't need a SO CAL culture shitting up the place as it is.

>> No.5966315

>>5966309
>sudden capsule depressurization.
Nothing would cause pressurization that rapid, short of a bomb, in which case everyone inside would be dead anyways.

>> No.5966319

>>5966315
>Nothing would cause pressurization that rapid, short of a bomb
High pressure inside. Low pressure outside. Doors open *outward*.

>> No.5966323

>>5966319
>because the doors would have a release hatch unlocked during transit

>> No.5966332

>>5966323
Shit actually happens in the real world, especially when there's a chance for it to happen every 2 minutes.

Sudden loss of pressure in an airliner means you have to put oxygen masks on. Sudden loss of pressure in a hyperloop capsule means you're dead before anyone can do anything.

>> No.5966338

>>5966332
Where exactly is your evidence?

Your entire argument is based on:
>well it COULD happen!

>In the event of a minor leak, the onboard environmental control system would maintain capsule pressure using the reserve air carried onboard for the short period of time it will take to reach the destination.
>In the case of a more significant depressurization, oxygen masks would be deployed as in airplanes.
>In the unlikely event of a large scale capsule depressurization, other capsules
in the tube would automatically begin emergency braking whilst the Hyperloop
tube would undergo rapid re-pressurization along its entire length.

>> No.5966343

>>5966338
>In the inevitable event of a large scale capsule depressurization, other capsules in the tube would automatically begin emergency braking whilst the Hyperloop tube would undergo rapid re-pressurization along its entire length, so we can say, "We did what we could." to the passengers' bereaved loved ones.

>> No.5966387

>>5964406
Pic is why it won't happen

>> No.5966394

There's just way too much emphasis on speed in this system, over safety, comfort, and the ability to make stops along the way.

A suspended tube with a solar panel roof is a pretty good idea. Ground effect suspension and linear motor propulsion are also very reasonable.

A windowless steel tube with 0.1% atmospheric pressure and 1,000 kph speed is just bonkers.

>> No.5966603

>>5966394
28 passengers is also a really awkward capsule size.

Why make it so small, without going right down to individual and family capsules?

This design needlessly exposes you to the blood-filled projectile vomit of strangers.

>> No.5966641

>>5966639
Only in utah.

>> No.5966639

>>5966603
28 isn't the average size of an American family?

>> No.5967441

>>5965578
What

>> No.5967445

>>5959793
turbines fail and enjoy your bullet train of DOOM.

>> No.5967451

>>5967441
Think of /sci/ as a city street, with lots of little theme cafes constantly popping up and going out of business (the threads), where you can sit down with a hot beverage and strike up a conversation with people who are, for the most part, complete strangers.

In that analogy, VSG would be a ranting homeless guy who walks up to random tables and screams his schizophrenic gibberish at the people sitting there.

>> No.5967465

>>5966343
You do realize that depressurization doesn't mean instant death right?

>> No.5967472

>>5967465
Forgot my source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_exposure

>> No.5967478

>>5967465
"A rough estimate is that a human will have about 90 seconds to be recompressed, after which death may be unavoidable."

They're not going to repressurize hundreds of miles of tunnel fast enough to save anyone's life.

>> No.5967481

>>5967478
[citation needed]

>> No.5967482

>>5967481
For what? That they're not going to repressurize it all that fast?

If they have that much valve area they can open, it's going to leak constantly and they'll never achieve the low pressures needed for it to operate.

>> No.5967483

Also: repressurizing the tube is going to reduce the capsules to crawling along on wheels, putting anyone injured by depressurization hours from medical attention.

>> No.5967486
File: 5 KB, 186x186, elon_musk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5967486

Is anyone else at least a little bit gay for Elon Musk?

>> No.5967487

>>5967483
It's safer than driving.

>> No.5967490

>>5967487
People really haven't spent a lot of time taking a ride in pressurized vehicles maintained on less than the cost of a bus ticket where a loss of pressure will kill the passengers. So no, we can't say how safe it is.

>> No.5967492

>>5966394
>safety, comfort, stops
Planes are worse in every category.

>> No.5967493

>>5967490
Dude, ur gay. jus stop.

>> No.5967494

>>5967490
So we should never build it because we don't know how safe it is.

>> No.5967496

>>5967492
It doesn't cost billions of dollars to establish an aircraft route that works only between two end-points.

And no, aircraft are certainly not less comfortable. You've got windows, adjustable-position seats, space to get up and walk around, bathrooms, attendants, food service, etc.

>> No.5967499

>>5967490
It's safer than driving, period. I can't comprehend why anyone would disagree. The hyperloop can be improved little by little because everything is a question of engineering. Once a problem is fixed, it's fixed. Driving on the other hand requires every driver to be completely focused on driving all of the time to be safe.

>> No.5967503

>>5967494
It is one of many reasons we shouldn't build it.

Yes, "We don't know whether it will actually work." is a major consideration and often a determining factor in whether or not to invest a large amount of money in something.

You can't just imagine how nice the mature technology would be, you have to realistically consider the probable and possible costs, delays, and failures along the way.

>> No.5967505

>>5967499
>It's safer than driving, period. I can't comprehend why anyone would disagree.
You apparently can't comprehend a lot of things.

Physics and engineering professors have looked at this and said that it just won't work without breakthrough new technology. So many things can go wrong, and be fatal to the people riding it at the time.

It's true that it would almost certainly kill less people than driving, but only because as a new transportation technology, they'd abandon it after a few high-profile disasters.

>> No.5967508

>>5967505
>Physics and engineering professors have looked at this and said that it just won't work without breakthrough new technology. So many things can go wrong, and be fatal to the people riding it at the time.


Link, honeypoo?

>> No.5967511

>>5967508
Find it yourself. In addition to the full PDF, I've read a lot of articles on this, and I'm not going to dig through them all for a lazy smartass who has stronger opinions after less reading.

>> No.5967513

>>5967511
>Makes a claim
>Gets asked for a soure
>FIND IT YOURSELF SMARTASS

Way2go d00d. When you make a claim, it's on you to support it, tard.

>> No.5967515

>>5967513
This isn't wikipedia.

It's not a common rule in the world that lazy, ignorant fucks get to interrupt conversations with rudely phrased demands for references and get taken seriously.

Go do some actual reading, and you'll find professors saying that it won't work without major new technology.

>> No.5967518

>>5967515
Just thought you should know you seem like a fucking dickhead. Be sure to tone that down in public.

>> No.5967522

>>5967503
Your argument could be used against everything from the Apollo Program to skyscrapers. You are sounding increasingly like a Luddite.

>> No.5967527

>>5967515
They said it isn't using anything new.

>> No.5967532

>>5967522
I suppose if you aren't concerned with or able to understand the details, all well-marketed new ideas sound brilliant and all well-reasoned rejections of the bad ones sound like mindless conservatism.

>> No.5967531

>>5967505
>It's true that it would almost certainly kill less people than driving, but only because as a new transportation technology, they'd abandon it after a few high-profile disasters.
AND because of the reason I already posted. It's automated. It doesn't rely on everyone staying focused on a single task to be safe.

>> No.5967534

>>5967532
>details
Such as? So far all I've hears is "it might be dangerous".

>> No.5967537

>>5967531
You could say the same of a motorized unicycle meant to be ridden by a restrained and blindfolded passenger with no access to any controls, because there aren't any.

Lack of potential for driver error doesn't automatically mean it's safer than a vehicle that does have potential for driver error.

>> No.5967539

>>5967534
Yes, because you aren't a person who reads things, but just someone who makes emotional judgements and then does a little pantomime of rational discussion. We've established that.

At least read the fucking thread.

>> No.5967584

>>5967537
No one is arguing that no one will ever die on the hyperloop. The issue is how safe it is relative to other popular forms of transportation. That's why the distinction between automated and automated is relevant. The most automated form of transportation today is train, and wouldn't you know, trains are the safest form of transportation. I've been reading the Hyperloop Alpha pdf and everything seems simple enough.

>> No.5967592

>>5964112
Even in your dream life you still live at home

You made my day

>> No.5968004

>>5967592
It's 4chan, what do you expect

>> No.5968037

>>5966394
> A windowless steel tube with 0.1% atmospheric pressure and 1,000 kph speed is just bonkers.

Agree. But don't worry; it'll never be built. Every year it's not built, we'll point out that it's not built, therefore we're right.

It's not "skepticism" when you're RIGHT about the facts and logic that deny building something.

Meanwhile, CA's ruinous HSR experiment is only growing in projected costs. That's the reality, the political reality: What's actually BUILT will be too expensive and less useful, but it will still be USED.

Elon Musk is too fucking full of himself. He's unclothed and we must point at him and laugh that he's unclothed.

>> No.5968063

>>5964315

Never a problem on the Channel Tunnel. People swallow their fears for convenience, just look at all the people terrified of flying.

>> No.5968259
File: 87 KB, 453x495, groundeffect.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5968259

>>5964084
>http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf
Thank you this is the most explanation I have seen so far. I like the idea, but have a few reservations.

1. the purpose of it value alinement is mixed (that tends to be fatal for many business projects) it is trying to do several different things at once but is treating them as the same (yes they are similar and I think they could be integrated together, but the lack of detail on it is disturbing.) And it does not address other things it does even better, ignoring some big selling points.
2. The pressures! (Now I do lean to the view this could be done, but it is making things much harder then need be.)
a. The big one for me is if the inside is at such a low pressure where will all this levitating air come from. (If it can reach those lift pressures then it must be going above a critical speed, anything less and the pod should stop very quickly)
b. One big safety feature is the idea of buffer air cushions between pods which absorbs the energy in the event of a collision. However in this low pressure setting the effect of the air cushion is diminished to near nothing, more so as the pods intake activity or in a slightly better case passively lets all that air go someplace else so it does very little for safety.
c. Too much of a good thing, is bad. The very low pressure is so low it creating many other problems that more then make up for the gains, that is why they did not go full vacuum in the first place.
3. They hand-wave some safety issues that they could and should address.
4. There are better ways to do this! (pic related to another idea that could be mixed with this for some interesting results)
5. It clashes with the current culture and requires a high adoption rate to work well (this is the real reason it will fail)
Basically this has many good ideas and could work, but it would be better to cannibalize those good ideas into other ideas.

>> No.5968601

>>5959793

>> No.5969709

>>5968601

>> No.5970551

>>5969709